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On May 20 2011 16:15 Barundar wrote:
In my opinion use the kingmaker lynch and the nuke on the same person. If not, if one of the targets is mafia, and the other isn't, we risk that the one on mafia is redirected by politician on to a townie. If we mislynch on top of that, we have killed 3 townies in one day while mafia only killed 1 townie at night.
Ver can the Kingmaker lynch and/or America nuke be redirected by Politician after they have been set off?
I'm leaning town on Caller and Fishball, so it's between Node and Incognito for me regarding the second mafia, and I think Node has been the scummiest poster of the 2.
##Vote Node
Chaosers sudden vote on Foolishness seems strange, so does chaosers suspect list. Why would he suspect dreamflower if he hasn't even read her posts? It doesn't really give me confidence he is actually looking for mafia.
It's weird that you would think of it that way. If you read the the role description again, the Politician can only change the choice of the target prior to firing, not after the nuke is in the air.
Now that the nuke is in the air, the Politician can only buy the King's lynch, or some random dudes vote for our regular lynch, if this role exists in the game.
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Main parts highlighted
Politician
As a person used to getting your way by any means necessary you may PM me during the day to buy a player's vote. You will have the ability to control where that player's vote is placed. They will of course lose control of their vote. Their vote will show up as voting where ever you want it to be via PM to me. If you happen to buy America's vote, you can also use their nuke power if they have not already used it for that day and it will appear as them doing it. Also, if you buy the King's vote, you will have his lynch as well. If you happen to buy the king or America you will be informed if you can use their power.
America
Congratulations, you have bribed your way to becoming President of America! You have unlimited nukes at your disposal, however, they can only be used during the day phase and you can only use one nuke per day. Also, because congress is a bunch of fat cat geezers, if the politician buys your vote and you have not already used your nuke for that cycle, he can also nuke a target of his choice and he makes it look like you did it! (however he cannot make you shoot yourself) To nuke, you must type ##nuke player. You must nuke 12 hours or more before day ends. Nukes land at the end of the day.
Kingmaker
You are the Kingmaker, the power behind the throne. Every night you must send me a Private Message with a list of names to be made king. The highest person on the list not to be killed will be made king. The King will not be informed of who you are. You also can not choose any player you already made King unless you cannot fulfill your role otherwise (i,e only a few people are left whom you've all made king). You can't nominate yourself to be King either under any circumstances. The King is essentially a day vigilante who must type ##lynch player at some point during the day to kill someone. If the king's vote is bought by the politician, the politician also controls the king's lynch. Power behind the throne, neh?
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Fair enough, it's clear on america then. What about the lynch though? Doesn't really say what happens if wiggles write in thread, and the vote is then bought. Do they need to buy his vote before he places something in the thread? Will he be notified he can't write in thread if politician buy his vote?
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United States2186 Posts
King lynch happens instantly, like a day vigi, so if the politician buys their vote after they lynch then they can't control the king's lynch as it already occurred.
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On May 20 2011 16:57 Ver wrote:
King lynch happens instantly, like a day vigi, so if the politician buys their vote after they lynch then they can't control the king's lynch as it already occurred.
Cheers for clarifying. Will the King be notified if his vote is bought?
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On May 20 2011 17:00 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 16:57 Ver wrote:
King lynch happens instantly, like a day vigi, so if the politician buys their vote after they lynch then they can't control the king's lynch as it already occurred. Cheers for clarifying. Will the King be notified if his vote is bought?
Yes, also answered already.
On May 20 2011 07:42 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 05:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Are we notified of "Nuclear Launch Detected", or do we have to wait and see if it lands?
If a nuke has been launched I will announce it and its target at either around the 24 hour mark before the lynch or the 12 hour mark, depending on when it was launched. The nuke, if launched, will land right after the lynch.Show nested quote +Ver can you give us a run down of how the kingmaker/ politician roles work in conjunction.
Does the politician have to post in thread to use the power?
Does the politician lynch show up at the end of the day or immediately?
Will Wiggles be informed if he loses his lynch?
etc. No the politician is entirely private. They pm me who they want to control. If they control the king (or america), I will let them know that they have his lynch available to use and must use it (assuming he hasn't used it). The King will be informed if the politician controls him (as would anybody). The politician vote shows up right after they use it.
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Well I'm stupid for asking then. So I guess wiggles can set a time for a mini vote on who he wants to dayvig, he kills the winner (loser), and we use the information to decide on the normal lynch?
My vote is on Node then, seems like incognito is going to be it though.
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On May 20 2011 15:18 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 14:12 Fishball wrote:On May 20 2011 13:50 infinitestory wrote:
I don't see any way to stop the America nuke, so there's no point keeping anything at all hidden. If you're town, and you didn't get a role, you should tell us what you went for; if you did get a role, please claim. America might be able to stop the nuke himself, but that wouldn't make sense if the Politician has bought his vote, because that would just void the Politician's power every time. Unless it was made that America can only stop the nuke if the target was his call, and not the Politician's. This would be a question for Ver to clarify. But in reality, it really doesn't matter, as Incognito would have to choose to stop nuke from hitting Chezinu, which I don't really see happening for many reasons. Whether or not America has the ability to stop the nuke, Chezinu is likely to die. So the maximum kills we can get during this day cycle is three. - Mr. Wiggles uses the King's lynch on Incognito. Incognito dies immediately. - Incognito's nuke lands on Chezinu at the end of day. - Town lynches one more at the end of day. Just some follow up. If what GMarshal says is true, and his list is not influenced by any other factors (Framer/Godfathers etc,), and also assuming he, himself, is not one of the Mafia on the list, we have two Mafia among the following five. - Caller - Incognito - Chezinu - Node - flamewheel If we do go with the route with maximum day kills, and the worst case scenario happens, as in both Chezinu/Incognito flipped Town, that leaves us with. - Caller - Node - flamewheel Now lets also assume that we used our Town lynch on a target outside of the check list (will elaborate later in this post), we will be on Night 2, and we have two Mafia among a list of three. At this point, we should have people use their investigative powers on the players remaining on the list instead of flat out killing them, based on the fact that we already missed twice from a list of five, and I'd rather not take anymore chances from the possibility that the list might be bad. If we don't find anything, we'll know this is a setup. Everything mentioned above only applies if neither Chezinu or Incognito flips red. Although I haven't cast my vote yet, from what I see in the voting thread right now, unless something dramatically comes up, the general consensus is that Incognito will be lynched. If this is the case, I rather have Mr. Wiggles use the King's lynch on Incognito right now. If he flips red, great; If he flips green, at least that will still give us 20 somewhat hours to discuss who we should be lynching next. Now back to why I think we should be using our Town lynch on someone else outside of the list. If Incognito flips red, it wouldn't be the best course of action to use another kill on the list, since Chezinu's death is inevitable and have yet to flip. I'd rather have us start exploring elsewhere. If Incognito flips green, the same logic applies, along with the situation we will be in mentioned up top; Chezinu has yet to flip, and we don't want to dig too deep base on the off-chance that the list might be bad, whether it's fake or is a setup by other factors. I also prefer Mr. Wiggles to use the King's lynch sooner than later, no matter who we decide to lynch. The sooner we're able to test the waters whether if a Politician exist in the game or not, the better. Yes, the Politician could choose to not use his power if he deems it is unnecessary or wants to lay low, but it's a still good indicator for Town, and it at least gives us a bit more time to prepare and discuss until the end of Day if a Politician do exist and used his power.
So in short, if the general consensus is to lynch Incognito, Mr. Wiggles should be the one pulling the trigger. It's either having the results now or results later, and it can only benefit us if we act now.
Instead of discussing "if I flip red" or "if I flip green", can you at least TRY to analyze what I am? I mean, its not that difficult.
If Chezinu is town he should claim his numbers and role.
I propose the following. Mr. Wiggles dayvigs me. When I flip town, you lynch Ace. I messed up my day 1 strategy, and it has blown up into this big mess. And while I think Ace is town, he is totally off the right track. While I understand how you think my crazy actions and reckless day 1 play is anti-town, Ace's play is equally as bad. And his ego and thread influence are big enough to drive this town into the ground even if he isn't mafia. Its obvious Ace isn't playing in the best interests of town and is instead blowing up the thread to feed his ego and perpetuate his godlike identity. Hopefully once we're both dead and the dust clears, the atmosphere can be calm enough again that some others such as Foolishness/Flamewheel/Radfield can step it up and actually lead us somewhere.
I will be mostly gone tomorrow for a recording session so aside from perhaps a small comment here or there, I won't be saying much from here on out.
Final thoughts:
Based on yesterday's lynch, it seems really strange that the mafia would stack 2 on Kavdragon, especially since they knew he would flip green, and that it would be the most likely list to be vote checked, given that town now knows that Kavdragon is innocent, and that I am heavily suspected and am also on that list. Upon further reflection, I feel like the vote list has been tampered with (likely), or that GMarshal fabricated it to lead us on a witch hunt (unlikely). Regardless, it shouldn't be accepted as the word of god.
Out of the people on the list, the only person I really had suspicions about was Chezinu.
Node seems plenty town to me, because his early contributions in the role picking phase were more than just "I don't like GMarshal's plan". While he hasn't been particularly insightful, Node doesn't seem like he's planning his actions. He seems to be reacting to information naturally and spontaneously as it is uncovered, and he seems to at least be thinking about the game dynamics. This generally isn't a mafia trait. Mafia tend to want to act only when they have a plan an they know how their action will affect the course of the game. When there are a lot of unknown variables around, mafia is reluctant to take a position. As Caller said, mafia operate best in an environment where they are acting from a position of certainty while the town is acting from a position of doubt. Node seems to be genuinely wanting to contribute, even when there is almost perfect chaos in the thread, an environment where mafia really doesn't need to do anything.
Caller day 1 looks plenty townie. He isn't afraid to make accusations, and generally seems unafraid. It would be nice to see some more conviction from Caller, but for now there doesn't seem to be any pressing reason to suspect him.
GMarshal day 1 acts consistently with his XXXVII appearance as town. Immediately gets started on a plan and is intent on contributing. His accusations of KillerSOS and Dreamflower are weak, but don't say much otherwise. His reaction in the voting is more consistent with his town play where the only thing he is really guilty of is that he is easily swayed. But GMarshal does that as town too. Of course, there are many reasons why a mafia GMarshal would want to post a 2/6 vote check list, but I don't see it as a likely outcome. GMarshal really isn't a dominant player in the grand political scheme of things, so volunteering this kind of information seems like little gain, especially if you know that its very likely that Incognito will be lynched.
Flamewheel has been taking a nonchalant attitude this game. Seems to have been a good choice. Either way, he thinks logically and doesn’t seem to be afraid of anything. No eye popping content coming from him, but nothing suspicious either, as he provides logical and reasonable data.
Overall, the fact that 2/6 mafia showed up on my list is surprising to me. Im going to expect that I was framed or something, but don’t let that stop you from just vigging me today.
Barundar pops up to semi-defend Kavdragon (when he FOSes Caller for adding another suspect). A wreckless and unnecessary move given by the fact that Kavdragon was indeed town. Looking over at Radfield’s Barundar analysis again, I have to disagree. Barundar’s post does give an inconclusive opinion of me, but his points about me are legitimate and he does credit me for contributing key ideas. The kicker though, is the last sentence in that post, which is a question. Barundar asks “I guess my question to Foolishness and Ace is, how do you explain his contributions with regards to roles if he is mafia?” This indicates that Barundar isn’t trying to “subtly push the Incog lynch without being responsible for it”, as Radfield claims. Barundar doesn’t post as if he is trying to sway public opinion. The open endedness of his question suggests that rather than attempting to spread doubt, he is legitimately confused and wants to find an explanation to explain the incongruence between my wacky accusations and my other pro-town ideas. Post day 1, Barundar keeps up with showing town-aligned actions. Posts a list of suspects (after the vote, so as not to split the vote further), and posts a reasonable blues list along with opinions and an insight into how the lynch unfolded. Barundar is pretty town here.
Radfield has the most elaborate pre-day 1 plan. Although I disagree with a lot of it (including a long list of roles that are unreasonably and irrationally labeled as “anti-town”), this is legitimate contribution. Radfield isn’t afraid of throwing out ideas and tweaking/improving his plan in response to criticism. Radfield not taking the role he assigned himself is not suspicious at all. He even said himself that the top 6 players should outwardly “agree” to follow the plan even if they aren’t. Given that Ace hasn’t come out yelling and screaming that Radfield picked an obviously anti-town role, it’s pretty much a no-brainer that Radfield’s pick makes sense somehow. Ace says that Radfield’s accusation of Barundar makes him suspicious. Even assuming that Barundar is town, this accusation makes no sense. Townies are wrong all the time. The important thing to analyze is not the fact that Radfield accuses a townie, but how he does it. In this case, Radfield’s accusation is coupled with reasonable sounding analysis, and Radfield continues to defend his case after the initial accusation. If Radfield as mafia doesn’t make sense since he could’ve jumped on the Kavdragon train and pinned all the responsibility on me. Radfield’s attack on Barundar doesn’t look like a scum post trying to hide the fact that Radfield is mafia. It just seems like a misguided analysis. Radfield is transparent about his thought process, and consistently shows that he is thinking reasonably and isn’t sticking to hard and fast policies.
Infinitestory immediately jumps into the discussion on roles. His reactions to my unexplained voting are excellent. In response to my request that Flamewheel nuke GMarshal and my vote for Kurumi, infinitestory not only questions me, but lists 3 points of why my accusation was ludicrous and shows that he went through GMarshal and Kurumi’s posts and found nothing noteworthily suspicious. Not really something mafia would be naturally inclined to do. On night 1, his official accusation post of me is long. Didn’t read it, but its reasonable. Infinitestory had over 2 days to hop on my bandwagon, but it seems like he was legitimately confused and waiting for an explanation before coming to conclusions. It doesn’t seem like infinitestory is trying to hide anything here.
Tnkted has a few reasonable posts in the early game, suggesting that the top 5 spots be protected (not really that original, but ok), as well as a suggestion for inventions. His later post summing up his thoughts about me/Radfield/Ace and his suspects seems reasonable. He’s spontaneous and inquisitive. Nothing suspicious here.
Bumatlarge contributes early. A bit late out the gate and copies some stuff from Radfield though. After this, he posts a lurker list and votes one of them, which doesn’t say much, but isn’t a contribution. After this though, he still seems inquisitive and seems to be giving a genuine attempt to figure things out. More contribution from bum would be nice, but at this point no reason to suspect him.
Its getting late now and I don’t feel like doing writeups on everyone.
Townies
Mr. Wiggles
Kurumi
Kitaman27 – leaning townie
Dreamflower – leaning townie, but not too confident
Eiii – leaning townie
Fishball – leaning townie
Mafia
OriginalName
KillerSOS
Chaoser
Foolishness
In Limbo
Deconduo
Hmm I only came up with 4 mafia candidates. Well if one of Chezinu/Deconduo make it in then its 5. I’m going to guess there’s 1 mole.
Anyway, good luck.
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After I die, please reread over my posts. I'm not completely insane.
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My confidence on Chaoser being red is 95%. Not like you'll trust me anymore, but just sayin'
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Apologies for my inactivity. Back to back midterms among other responsibilities don't leave much time for anything else-- I'm half caught up with the thread but that's it. By tomorrow afternoon I'll be off the hook, and back to only semi-lurking instead of being outright inactive  Look forward to it!
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I'm always down to wagon some scum. You guys make your posts too big its annoying to analyze.
I'm still confused about the radfield role thing, but if Ace isn't pushing it, then I don't see any reason to dog after them for it until one of them feels it should be outed. In fact I have a feeling we shouldn't even guess :X
I know I'm not supposed to be wishywashy, but im completely 50/50 on incognito. Going through all that trouble to be helpful only to ultimately have everyone else kick him around? I'd rather lynch chaoser someone I can more easily read then someone like incog who is getting the kavdragon syndrome. But incog does have other valid points against him, namely shapeless FoS like saying chaoser is scum and then not backing it up. I'm fairly certain I explained why chaoser was scum, so unless incog is just going with me, he once again put up a random FoS when he is about to die. WIFOM behind every corner!
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Oh, I guess I should post this, as mafia is obviously keeping tabs on public claims. Questions marks measure uncertainty.
1. Flamewheel - Chuiu Jack?
2. Scamp - Inventor
3. Caller
4. Barundar
5. Radfield
6. GMarshal
7. Deconduo - vanilla?
8. Foolishness - vanilla?
9. bumatlarge - watcher
10. Kavdragon - vanilla
11. Chaoser
12. Fishball
13. KillerSOS
14. Eiii
15. Infinitestory
16. Dreamflower
17. Mr.Wiggles
18. Original Name
19. tnkted
20. Chezinu
21. Ace - Capitalist??
22. Kurumi
23. Incognito - America
24. Node
25. kitaman27
Didn't see any other claims, and I'd like that BP thing with deconduo and foolishness to be clarified more. Top 7 should have bulletproof somewhere?
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Oh ok that extra post on chaoser is intentional WIFOM bullshit. Lynching incognito.
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You forgot GM bum, listchecker DT claim.
I can't say I disagree with any of Incognitos reads, the fight between Chaoser and Foolishness seem off to me.
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My scumteam with numbers:
8. Foolishness [1][1]
11. Chaoser [2][2]
20. Chezinu [4][x]
13. KillerSOS [5][11]
So I assume Chezinu is one of them. For the second mafia on GM's list, its down to:
23. Incognito [9][1]
24. Node [9][1]
1. flamewheel [3][3]
flamewheel isn't really suspicious, but he does have the missing number [3] in my scum team.
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United States22154 Posts
so I have to ask
Does being framed affect what you appear to the Mafia 2 Detective's list checks
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United States22154 Posts
I forgot a a question mark. Thats going to bother me.
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Ok. What the fuck is wrong with this town.
Wiggles, do not lynch incognito. It is clear that he isn't mafia. He's been contributing solid plans all game, with very precise, assertive language. He has posted scumlists. He has written HUGE posts, several times, and all of them were informative and helpful and steered town in... well, in directions if not in the best direction. A guided town is better than a chaotic town.
Wiggles, you should hit Caller or Flamewheel instead. Of the people on the list, Caller seems like most mafia to me. But it should be obvious from his posting style, and if not that, the fact that he posted his thoughts on half the players in the game as a goodbye note should sway you. Scum wouldn't bother; look at how chez is reacting to his imminent death.
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Could also lynch node, im not certain about him.
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EPT
