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On January 10 2011 05:19 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 05:11 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Because it would be stupid to kill him. If I was mafia I would of done EXACTLY what you did. I do what I can to CONTROL the town's KP. IE: messaging him, exactly what you did. If you can influence the town KP and make sure it doesn't hit red you are essentially doubling your KP as mafia. If you have a protection ability you can use that to influence him and believe you are town aligned and on top of that you can just NOT protect him whenever you see him as a threat then kill him. The problem came when you KNEW he was going to get a BPV. That meant you couldn't guarantee he would die when you wanted him to die which is very risky if he starts getting suspicious of you. You would basically be facing a town aligned serial killer which is scary as fuck. this is ridiculously WIFOM. i knew, based on the logs i just pasted above, that your plan was fishy to begin with. in a game where EVERY OTHER MEMBER must die, there needs to be some restriction to no-death items/abilities. if he could literally never die, the game is de facto imbalanced since that team can never lose. instead, i can also say that you knew you could make this argument when you used your ability on LD, given the information you knew. WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM i have always made the point to say i am "essentially" unkillable -- there are ways around it, of course. obviously i wont say what these ways are. but your ability, as you claimed, is unbeatable and would render the entire game moot.
Arguing wifom is bullshit 90% of the time. People don't generally think that far in advance. On top of that, what I said is NOT wifom. Its a possible plan that a decent mafia may or may not think of. I generally think you are decent/good at mafia and would assume that manipulating the extra KP is a logical thing to try to do. In fact, if I had a redirection ability like you are claiming I could easily abuse LD's claim and control his power. Instead I trapped.
I also never had a plan beyond giving LD a vest. So I don't know what you think is fishy. As I said before, my action would of made LD living or dying no longer in your control. Thus your influence on him would not exist and you couldn't kill him if he chose not to listen to you. You are also WRONG. A bulletproof vest is beatable by the means I listed. Poison, lynching, etc. Any power NOT relating to bullets.
You are grasping at straws because I trapped you and your full of shit. One of two things had to happen either you tried to manipulate the information I gave you regarding mine and LD's contract, OR coincidentally he died after I leaked that information to you. I don't believe in coincidence. You knew the hole in my contract had to do with LD not immediately receiving the vest, and abused that hole I left you.
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On January 10 2011 05:53 annul wrote:
LSB: if a lynch vote is 3-3, is it a no lynch or does the person to reach 3 first get lynched?
First person to reach 3
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what you said is WIFOM because i can make the exact same argument one step further with you
"you knew you could argue that i knew i could do X..." etc.
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there is no guarantee that the vest can do what you say it can do, either. it COULD stop X things, but it may not, we cant know for sure.
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In my experiance, heated arguments like these occur between two townies. Let's not jump to the conclusion that one of them is Scum.
I currently believe that Annul is town, based off a lot of information that i trust. I strongly disagree with his lynch currently. Don't let the mafia rush this.
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On January 10 2011 06:15 Kavdragon wrote:
In my experiance, heated arguments like these occur between two townies. Let's not jump to the conclusion that one of them is Scum.
I currently believe that Annul is town, based off a lot of information that i trust. I strongly disagree with his lynch currently. Don't let the mafia rush this.
I showed the two possibilities above. Either you think its coincidence that LD died after my leaked contract to Annul, or you think Annul had him killed. How else would you explain it? I am generally against coincidences so I am more inclined to believe the latter.
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I think that the evidance that I have to the contrary is enough to convince me that a coincidence is NOT out of the picture. He claimed day-vig. That marks him as a target. He said that he wanted protection, but he couldn't ask for it till he had confirmed his ability. That was due today. It's a good idea for mafia to kill him now, rather than risk it.
I'm not totally sure about either of you, but right now the argument it telling me you are both town. So don't kill each other without a really good reason. reason.
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The thing is to believe it is a coincidence I would have to find a way to justify him not dying BEFORE I sent the terms of our contract to Annul. That's the question I ask and can't find a reasonable answer to. If LD claimed day vig then mafia would do one of two things. Try to kill him ASAP or try to manipulate his kills to ensure they don't hit them. If you try to manipulate his kills I would generally aim to have a fail safe, IE the ability to kill him whenever you can if necessary. A BPV removes the certainty of being able to kill him at will since there are only two things that can break a BPV. Poison and a lynch. Poison wouldn't guarantee death before he does damage so I don't think that is what they have. Whatever they did it allowed them to kill him before my vest transferred.
So the coincidence isn't LD dying, its the timing of his death coming after Annul received certain information that messed up what I view as the two ways to approach a day vig claim like LD did.
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RoL: You were going to give the vest to LD, because you thought that he was town. Why didn't you give him the vest earlier, then leak a contract to annul that said that he wouldn't have it yet? The bearer would have known that a hit would take place, and LD would have been alive. This seems like a dumb trap to me.
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LSB confirmed it earlier. He wouldn't know he got hit and I wouldn't have any information. The last time I set up a trap using myself as bait I died and the people I left in charge of following through didn't do it. I couldn't exactly use anyone as bait it had to be a good target.
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No, LSB confermed that YOU wouldn't know if h was hit. LD would though. If you had told him the plan, easy catch.
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this is what ROL is doing
he is distorting words and attempting to pull the wool over people's heads.
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you take that from one thing I misread. Its you who has been distorting information. You said when quoting your IRC conversation with LD that he trusted you completely. Yet he had a clause to take away his money and even said in the conversation that if he died people should lynch you. On top of that he isn't stupid enough to trust anyone blindly. Its a stupid thing to do so I don't know why you would claim 100% trust on his behalf after hes dead. You also used faulty logic. Just because someone died and is innocent doesn't mean everything they said is 100% right and informed, IE: His judgment on you being blue. That is roughly like saying DrH died in Salem but he trusted Southrawrea so we should still trust him.
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that clause was written in the contract before he knew what i was. the contract had 5 clauses in it, that was one of them.
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He could of reworded the contract, but I doubt he would even if he did believe your claim. Whenever possible you should set up fail safes in contracts in case the person you are talking to dies. Can you tell us the rest of the clauses? If you can't, why not?
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On January 10 2011 07:07 Kavdragon wrote:
No, LSB confermed that YOU wouldn't know if h was hit. LD would though. If you had told him the plan, easy catch.
Care to answer this?
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I did, I just misread what he wrote.
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I can confirm that RoL has a vest, and Annul has the money RoL gave him in the trust. Some of the money from RoL's trust has been used.
This confirms the claims that RoL, and Annul both have protective abilities. Make of that what you will.
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On January 10 2011 05:03 Nemesis wrote:
Things are rather getting interesting...annul claims to be unlynchable. Well let's put that theory to the test. And what exactly is his ability to protect RoL?
##Vote: annul
It's been confirmed that he is NOT unlynchable. If you are going to stick with that vote, you're going to have to explain it.
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On January 10 2011 09:47 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 05:03 Nemesis wrote:
Things are rather getting interesting...annul claims to be unlynchable. Well let's put that theory to the test. And what exactly is his ability to protect RoL?
##Vote: annul It's been confirmed that he is NOT unlynchable. If you are going to stick with that vote, you're going to have to explain it.
Where has that been confirmed?
And if it was confirmed that is NOT unlynchable, doesn't that mean that annul just lied? What good reason can he possibly have for lying about that that is beneficial to the town?
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EPT
