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On December 01 2010 10:14 jcarlsoniv wrote:RoL, your points make sense to me, and I would like to find out if these are indeed scum tells. ## Unvote Coag
## Vote AidnaiShow nested quote +On December 01 2010 07:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Aidnai is the best candidate right now if not for any other reason than because I said so. Really necessary though? To address ghrur: Show nested quote +Jcarlsoniv:
All he does is agree with people on speculative topics
I am currently in 3 games of mafia, in the last 3 weeks of my college semester, and I am a varsity athlete, so excuse me if people post things that I agree with before I can post them. Speculative topics are just that, completely speculative, and I believe a lot of the speculation that has been made is correct, so I agree with it.
Asking questions, seems unsure. Answer them yourself man.
Doesn't even give off any possible information
Scum play
So unsure of himself, "That's possible. I'm not sure he would give someone two roles though? Not sure"
Very unlike his assertive self in Salem, he hardly EVER uses "I think" or "Possibly" or "just a guess" etc
Even in Sengoku, states his opinions strongly
This is because in Salem, I know facts. In Sengoku, I know facts. I can be confident about the facts I know, and can convey this confidence. This is a game that has just started and everyone is just speculating. I cannot be sure if any of my speculations are correct, so I don't post them in a definite manner.
Okay, I'm good with that.
On December 01 2010 08:51 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 08:03 ghrur wrote:On December 01 2010 05:06 Pandain wrote:##Vote GhrurGhrur basically hasn't been contributing at all, yet mantains the illusion of such a thing. Very mafia tell imo. Furthormore tells everyone to contribute and scum hunt yet doesn't do it himself, contradiction. His posts:On November 30 2010 07:39 ghrur wrote:
I'm assuming PMs are allowed right? rules I know, I know.  On November 30 2010 07:53 ghrur wrote:Op, so PMs aren't allowed. Darn. WELL... that kinda throws a wrench in my plans. Okay? On November 30 2010 08:39 ghrur wrote:
I'd suggest we just pressure people through voting and discuss our opinions on who looks suspicious or not. Also, having a plan for town to organize around is NEVER bad. I mean, if we can get a town circle, all the better right? Let's see, so far those who haven't posted:
Barundar
RoL
Jcarlsoniv
annul
Pandain (wut?)
Well, might as well be bold.
##Vote RebirthofLegend This I don't like. First of all, note he voted RoL because he hasn't posted. Yet even though he's posted alot now, he hasn't changed. That is VERY suspicious in my eyes. Furthormore, he does what mafia like to do, which is "contributing without really contributing." He tells everyone to say who they think is scum, and doesn't do it himself. Mafia love to do this,have town be the heads of each lynch, while staying in the shadows themselves. Makes it much easier to put blame on someone later. How doesn't it contribute if it helps pressure people and get them to post and vote? Also, is there something inherently scummy about voting for pressure?On November 30 2010 09:59 ghrur wrote:Why would we want to do that? Dr. H is basically giving us unlimited time to get a GOOD lynch in, and you want to rush it? Why? I think we can hit a mafia day 1 giving our low player pool if we really try.  Cmon Decond, I KNOW you have mafia sniping skills. ^_^ Again, pushes for decon to help without helping himself. Going further, lays accusations on a player for a very weak reason. Mafia does this ALOT. They try to always make players seem suspicious for any single post. Decon says we should rush to day 2? Ghrur lays suspicion on him. This post does nothing except suggest decon is mafia, without even doing that. Will post my reasons for suspecting Decond later on in this post On November 30 2010 11:42 ghrur wrote:On November 30 2010 10:17 deconduo wrote:On November 30 2010 09:59 ghrur wrote:Why would we want to do that? Dr. H is basically giving us unlimited time to get a GOOD lynch in, and you want to rush it? Why? I think we can hit a mafia day 1 giving our low player pool if we really try. Cmon Decond, I KNOW you have mafia sniping skills. ^_^ I was mostly kidding <3 Seems more like we switched alignments. >_> What? Ghrur explain this. Sure, I'll explain. Here's my thoughts on Decond so far. I was going to post this, but I thought I'd rather have him just post some more, and see if I could get off some more analysis and see what some pressure will do. + Show Spoiler +Alright, RoL posted.
##Unvote RebirthOfLegend
Hmm, I don't disagree with Aidnai right now, but I'm looking more at decond due to his one line posts, his useless vote tally of who voted who, and his seemingly *townie* idea of role claiming.
Of course, it's day one, so nothings for sure yet, but why do we need a tally of who voted who when 1/2 the game's inactive? The votes aren't even deciding right now. All it does is make him seem useful to town when it really serves no purpose. Then, while it may seem townie to "role claim," it's actually more beneficial to mafia in such a set up. We don't know the roles; they do. We don't know who's blue and who's red; they do. They can easily fake a role like Pandain did in Insane with "Trash Collector" or something and disrupt us. In fact, that's EXACTLY what you would expect mafia to do because we get the least information Day 1 making fake role claims the easiest to get away with. I mean, what else have we gotten aside from Dr. H's "clues?" Nothing. So, I say seemingly townie, actually red for Decond.
Other Decond Stuff:
Doesn't wanna vote
"This is just a theory based on how the lovers role works in general games"
" its possible..."
Very defensive, scared play.
Posting a lot of useless information like reiterating the vote count or reiterating the clues. I think we can read, ya?
Aidnai:
Post without much information
Against "spamming" - trying to limit discussion?
Not really discussing, asking others to discuss
Against town circle
Asking much more questions than in Salem Mafia
Pressures people as townie, like Artanis and Radfield, yet backs out of pressuring me really quickly. Not committed
Jcarlsoniv:
All he does is agree with people on speculative topics
Asking questions, seems unsure. Answer them yourself man.
Doesn't even give off any possible information
Scum play
So unsure of himself, "That's possible. I'm not sure he would give someone two roles though? Not sure"
Very unlike his assertive self in Salem, he hardly EVER uses "I think" or "Possibly" or "just a guess" etc
Even in Sengoku, states his opinions strongly Oh look, I'm being accused of posting mostly one liners and useless information. Lets have a look at 'useful' posts by ghrur up to this point: + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2010 08:39 ghrur wrote:
I'd suggest we just pressure people through voting and discuss our opinions on who looks suspicious or not. Also, having a plan for town to organize around is NEVER bad. I mean, if we can get a town circle, all the better right? Let's see, so far those who haven't posted:
Barundar
RoL
Jcarlsoniv
annul
Pandain (wut?)
Well, might as well be bold.
##Vote RebirthofLegend
Suggests pressuring people through voting and votes for a lurker, just AFTER I write: On November 30 2010 08:33 deconduo wrote:
Pick a lurker, put pressure on and see how they respond? So basically repeated what I had just said, using more words. Suggests a town circle in a game with no PMs.
You're right. That was indeed a pretty useless post except that I voted for someone and they did help contribute afterwards. I'm not gonna deny it though, it was a worthless post aside from the vote. I maintain that it's just general day 1 chat though. =/
Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 09:59 ghrur wrote:Why would we want to do that? Dr. H is basically giving us unlimited time to get a GOOD lynch in, and you want to rush it? Why? I think we can hit a mafia day 1 giving our low player pool if we really try. Cmon Decond, I KNOW you have mafia sniping skills. ^_^ Takes a dig at me when I posted a jokey post. The end. Next, regular vote counts are really important in a majority lynch game, by losing count someone can get lynched a lot easier than you'd think. ESPECIALLY as there are probably vote manipulation roles.
Why is it not done by ANYONE except caller in sengoku then? That too is a majority lynch game. Still, I suppose you're right on this one. I've never played a majority vote game like this one before where day ends once we get a majority, so I'll concede the point. However, I wasn't taking a dig at you. I was complimenting you. I'm sorry if it sounded like a dig.
Other points:
[spoiler]
Doesn't wanna vote
Voting in a majority lynch game is not to be taken lightly. I could go to bed and wake up with someone dead that I didn't want dead.
Why is this specific to majority lynch games? It could happen for all mafia games, especially those with a close vote and time-based days. You voted relatively early on in Salem, and then even experimented with Kenpachi near the end. You could've killed him when you woke up too with the deadline if you weren't watching.
Furthermore, why're you afraid to vote on Day 1 when it was early in the game? You said, Pick a lurker, put pressure on and see how they respond? Guess what? YOU NEVER DID THAT. Interesting contradiction huh? Scum much?
"This is just a theory based on how the lovers role works in general games"
" its possible..."
Very defensive, scared play.
We have no roles list, theorizing is all we can do. I'm hardly going to say YES THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THAT CLUE THAT POINTS TO THAT ROLE WORKS
That doesn't make it any less wishy-washy. Guess what heuristic Ver used in his Mafia XXX write up to help determine mafia? Wishy-washiness. Furthermore, you're exaggerating my argument. I never stated in any way that you had to know what the roles do or anything. I'm just saying you're being way too non-assertive about your theories, like you don't want to put them out there.
Posting a lot of useless information like reiterating the vote count or reiterating the clues. I think we can read, ya?
Much more useful information than you have posted.
Except... it wasn't. It was equally useless in my eyes.
The roleclaim thing? You'll see tomorrow if I'm alive. Can't say anything about it obviously.
I'll take your word on that. If not though, I hope you understand that it'll be a HUGE FoS on you. In fact, a palm of suspicion. 
Basically you are trying to make a case where there is none to be made.
FoS ghrur
Too bad, I'm just hunting scum. If I need to be aggressive, which I've found out that I do, then I'll do it. Also, I'm not scum. I'm blue. ^_^
No, a case is definitely to be made here. Notice this. Throughout this WHOLE post accusing me, not once has he denied that he is INDEED mafia! Furthermore, he doesn't disagree with the fact that he has posted one liners, he just says I don't contribute. Also, [b]note the interesting contradiction about him and putting pressure on lurkers. Interesting how he doesn't follow his own advice, no? Couple that with this idea:
This is the type of gem to look for!! Note the blatant contradiction in logic, the excuse of adhering to some mysterious 'principle' despite saying specifically how good of a candidate YM is.
Guess what, that was by Ver. Notice the similarities yet? He says put pressure on a lurker and see how they respond. HE DOESN'T DO IT. Why? Because of the principle "Voting must be taken seriously."... but it's day 1? And he was still active during that time?
Finally, notice once more, he says we don't know what roles there are. I agree with that. However, that only supports my point that a "roleclaim" by a mafia member would only be beneficial to them because THEY have the information, THEY can make up any role (like pandain did), and THEY can lead us astray. It only helps them to roleclaim so early when we have little to no information and confuse us. Decond never disagrees with this. Sorry decond, despite your attacks, the contradictions are there. I understand I haven't been helpful yet to you, town, especially not to pandain's standards, but I'm trying here. Just look at these contradictions. Those aren't made up, they're staring you in the face. Suspect Decond.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On December 01 2010 11:42 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 11:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
A voice from the heavens speaks.
On the first night, thou may speak the truth or thou may lie. Your role may be revealed, the documents can not.
Somewhere on a wall the words are spraypainted.
"Sometimes the day is over before you think"
Someone got caught speeding in a car.
A guy has brains on his mind but doesn't know why.
Repetition the new epidemic of Liquidia?
A teacher and a preacher, a mouse and a house
all fear or love the hammer Also, note that we've gained two more descriptions that seem to be exclusive from the previous list. - Someone got caught speeding in a car.
- A guy has brains on his mind but doesn't know why.
Neither of these roles seem to indicate a Vote Blocker. Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 11:09 orgolove wrote:
Look, one way or another, we'll get short "descriptions" of each role eventually. And then, if I think up a bullshit role that somehow doesn't have a matching description, I've immediately painted myself a big fat lynch target. Why would I do something so risky like that unless I, you know, actually got that sort of PM?
The number of attacks directed at my "reveal" really strongly hints that this has got to be a red role. Does this make you a "big fat lynch target" now?
Again. Why the >hell< would I lie about something that could be so easily disproven? As you've noticed right now, DrH has been consistently providing role hints throughout the day. A red wouldn't pull such an attention onto himself by claiming something that could easily be disregarded before even the first day ended. If you don't notice a vote nullifier in the list, it just means DrH has hidden the clue well enough to confuse you.
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Sometimes the hammer strikes back
and it almost struck evil
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BTW i know mod said don't roleclaim
but i'm the "jerk riddler"
my role is i have to make confusing riddles and rhymes to confuse everyone so i can laugh at how wrong they are about stuff
if i don't post a riddle once per day i get modkilled
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On December 01 2010 12:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
BTW i know mod said don't roleclaim
but i'm the "jerk riddler"
my role is i have to make confusing riddles and rhymes to confuse everyone so i can laugh at how wrong they are about stuff
if i don't post a riddle once per day i get modkilled
I... O_o
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On December 01 2010 12:06 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 11:42 kingjames01 wrote:On December 01 2010 11:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
A voice from the heavens speaks.
On the first night, thou may speak the truth or thou may lie. Your role may be revealed, the documents can not.
Somewhere on a wall the words are spraypainted.
"Sometimes the day is over before you think"
Someone got caught speeding in a car.
A guy has brains on his mind but doesn't know why.
Repetition the new epidemic of Liquidia?
A teacher and a preacher, a mouse and a house
all fear or love the hammer Also, note that we've gained two more descriptions that seem to be exclusive from the previous list. - Someone got caught speeding in a car.
- A guy has brains on his mind but doesn't know why.
Neither of these roles seem to indicate a Vote Blocker. On December 01 2010 11:09 orgolove wrote:
Look, one way or another, we'll get short "descriptions" of each role eventually. And then, if I think up a bullshit role that somehow doesn't have a matching description, I've immediately painted myself a big fat lynch target. Why would I do something so risky like that unless I, you know, actually got that sort of PM?
The number of attacks directed at my "reveal" really strongly hints that this has got to be a red role. Does this make you a "big fat lynch target" now? Again. Why the >hell< would I lie about something that could be so easily disproven? As you've noticed right now, DrH has been consistently providing role hints throughout the day. A red wouldn't pull such an attention onto himself by claiming something that could easily be disregarded before even the first day ended. If you don't notice a vote nullifier in the list, it just means DrH has hidden the clue well enough to confuse you.
Well, at the moment, there really isn't enough to go on for anyone to get lynched. This is a difficult game because there is no deadline for a lynch. Without time pressure, it's easy for mafia to hide amongst the town. It's in our best interest to apply pressure to everyone so that they'll explain themselves adequately.
Anyway, the other person on my list is SouthRawrea. I posted this before but I'm doing again.
On December 01 2010 08:19 kingjames01 wrote:I've been going through each person's posts looking for suspicious activity or lack of activity. SouthRawrea only has 4 posts. Let's take a look: Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 07:07 SouthRawrea wrote:
Abstains aloud?
[Vote]##Coagulation Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 11:06 SouthRawrea wrote:
Black hood guy-> Mason?
Axe -> George Washington?
George Washington = Mason Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 07:10 SouthRawrea wrote:No please do split up your votes Main points: - NO content.
- Vote without an accompanying explanation.
- Expresses satisfaction with lack of town coordination. (I hope this one is a joke.)
I'm going to stick with my vote on orgolove. However, we need to apply pressure to players who are not contributing.
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Ok...Let me check my life status real quick and read up.
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So, I see several things going on at once in the thread. There is the Coag/Fishball/Orgo thing going on, then there's the Ghrur/Deconduo thing, and of course who could forget the RoL/aidnai thing. (I still maintain that debating the role clues/hints is mostly a waste of time).
Here's the thing, mafia would love to just sit back and let town destroy itself. So it's a safe bet that some of these conflicts are townie vs. townie. But the fact that the debate is continually being shifted from one thing to the next says to me that mafia are active in the thread, trying to shift attention around. So probably there's at least one mafia vs. townie battle going on. Now my thoughts:
RoL vs. aidnai. RoL's case against me was pretty weak, ESPECIALLY compared to the way he was acting about it. I've thought about this for a while and come to the following conclusion: RoL is probably a vet type role, or perhaps a mad hatter. I believe his game plan was something like, pick the first scumtell you see, pressure the shit out of whoever it was that 'slipped'. Two options from here: 1) you found mafia -> congrats, you may get a lynch, you may force mafia to behave a certain way in the thread, etc. 2) you found town -> in this case the plan is to draw a mafia hit. Mafia would certainly be tempted to hit RoL to frame me and cause confusion in the town (while eliminating a strong player, perhaps the only one here with a game plan)...of course, RoL would either survive the hit (foiling the plan) or maybe blow up some mafia. I think he may have also chosen me to pick on because i'm new--the thinking being that if I was actually mafia, he'd be able to scare me into making a real slip-up. I think his brazen, fearless stlye of posting definitely points to a vet/bulletproof/hatter type role, where he would want to take a hit.
Verdict: townie vs. townie.
Ghrur vs. Deconduo. I have looked at the posting from both, and in my opinion we're looking at two townies again. Both deconduo and ghrur looked suspicious right off the bat, as each would be eager to point out. But, that is more than understandable, given the wacky game setup plus everyone is a blue so that right there is gonna make people act a little weird. What is more important, however, is that they both responded pretty well to pressure, gave good arguments, posted without guilt or fear etc. Imo you two should bury the hatchet.
Verdict: townie vs. townie.
That leaves coag/fishball/orgo. I feel like I'm missing half of what's going on with this one, but here's what I see. Coag votes fishball later explaining his reasoning as "I really feel that if doch would make anyone on the signup list mafia it would be 100% fishball". Fishball responds pretty oddly (voting himself, then unvoting and voting RoL), and orgolove jumps all over him. Now this was obviously a simple pressure vote, but look at the way fishball reacted:
On November 30 2010 13:59 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 12:49 orgolove wrote:
Hmm. Fishball really didn't respond like a blue at all to coagulation's advances. And considering coagulation's typical behavior, he doesn't seem like a red. -_- though I'm all for removing clutter, it'd be great if we take out a red in day 1.
##Vote Fishball Hell, the game just started. What exactly do you want me to do? And what do you mean "I didn't respond like a blue at all"? There is a specific way on how a blue responds? Well I surely didn't know that! For an immediate Day 1 lynch, I could really care less who wants to vote for who. But if one were to ask me for "advice", I would say I'm more inclined to look at the inactives, especially in such a small game like this. As for why I voted for RoL; Well, I feel like it. If I were a Day Vig, I would have used my kill on him right now. Why? Because I feel like it...  So if you follow your senses and vote for me, I won't have a problem with that at all.
Now, this seems scummy to me for several reasons. 1) overreaction much? 2) advises looking at inactives, votes for a strong mafia player/veteran (at that point inactive) and then never changes his vote despite RoL becoming active and being a likely blue. 3) shows no regard for town interests.
And in fact, fishball has done absolutely nothing for town, even though he's been active yesterday and today. Here's the rest of his posts to date:
On December 01 2010 04:53 Fishball wrote:
Huh? Coag is still on the list.
On December 01 2010 04:59 Fishball wrote:
Nevermind, I missed your first post above.
Keep in mind these posts (from page 8) are boldly ignoring orgolove's accusations--a common mafia tactic (ignore it until it goes away). I know fishball is capable of doing more for town than this. Maybe he's acting extra strange because of his role, but I can't believe there's a town role that keeps you from contributing anything at all.
on that note:
##vote fishball
P.S. aeres, barundar, ~opz~, ghrur, jcarlsoniv, will you please remove your votes from me? only thing worse than getting killed night one for me would be getting lynched day one. -_-
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On December 01 2010 11:54 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 11:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
The system is corrupt.
And i think that is a hint for every role. If this is a hint for EVERY role, then we will stand to benefit if we decipher this statement. I tried comparing it to my role PM and I can't see any patterns. Any other ideas?
Not worth the time or effort. I'm all for lynching you because you think it would be useful to spend time decipering every role in the game. That will take time away from scum hunting. Not useful.
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p.s. That's how Fishball plays. Sorry.
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lol, that's not how I play, more like how I choose to play.
I'm currently trying to get gold on GT5 B-6
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On December 01 2010 14:54 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 11:54 kingjames01 wrote:On December 01 2010 11:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
The system is corrupt.
And i think that is a hint for every role. If this is a hint for EVERY role, then we will stand to benefit if we decipher this statement. I tried comparing it to my role PM and I can't see any patterns. Any other ideas? Not worth the time or effort. I'm all for lynching you because you think it would be useful to spend time decipering every role in the game. That will take time away from scum hunting. Not useful.
I did not suggest that we spend all of our time deciphering clues. I know you just joined the game and need to catch up but until you do, don't just respond to the last things that have happened.
Here are some of the major points so far:
- DrH has not provided us with a role list.
- He is feeding us clues that are significant. They seem to be hinting at our roles.
- Among the latest clues, he left a cryptic message and said that it was a hint for EVERY role.
Think about what that means. If we don't have a complete role list, then mafia can just make up roles and fit in. It should be clear to anyone that keeping track of DrH's clues benefits the town.
Next, the clue that I was referring to in that post you quoted specifically states that "And i think that is a hint for every role." The keyword here is EVERY. THAT INCLUDES MAFIA ROLES.
If YOU think that trying to figure out the capabilities of the mafia is "Not worth the time or effort" then you either haven't put enough thought into the game or you're trying to make sure that any information about important roles stay hidden.
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er i meant
including the last hint
every role has been hinted at
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I am very, very confident that Fishball isn't mafia. I'd be willing to bet my life in this game that orgolove's vote being removed is a sign that mafia is trying to frame him. As for not moving his vote off RoL, come on, surely everyone realizes there's no way scum would waste a vote like that in such a small majority lynch game -- it's pretty clear RoL/~OpZ~ isn't going to get lynched. I'm thinking that mafia is just doing their damndest to bandwagon an inactive townie.
I intend to follow through with RoL's plan, and am also willing to offer myself up for a lynch in the event that this doesn't work out.
##Vote aidnai
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I like how the OP says there are no clues, but then there are "hints".
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wow
drh says that he has hinted to all roles
where is the vote redirection role hint?
vote fishball, then vote orgolove tomorrow
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There were "no clues" in insane mafia as well but Artanis did the same sort of thing except all at once in night posts.
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I personally think this stuff should be clarified in the beginning.
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So we know that DrH has given us clues to every role. I'm going to continue the list that deconduo started with the latest clues:
Someone has a spirit inside them waiting to come out. (1)
Ability activated upon death.
Somebody fell in love.
Somebody has been born anew with the power of love. (2, maybe 3)
Lovers
A child is playing in the yard. (4)
Innocent Child
A man with a black hood stands in an alley.
The man in the black hood found his axe. (5)
Mason
Someone just got a pharmacology degree from Liquidia University.
Another student got his Pharmocology degree. (6,7)
Pharmacists/Nerfed Medics
A man begs in the street. (8)
Hobo?
Two men with a third eye, one tells the truth and the other lies (9,10)
Sane/Insane detective
Somewhere on a wall the words are spraypainted. "Sometimes the day is over before you think"
Sometimes the hammer strikes back and it almost struck evil (11)
Ability to end day early?
Someone got caught speeding in a car. (12)
Speeder?
A guy has brains on his mind but doesn't know why. (13)
Brain Surgeon?
Repetition the new epidemic of Liquidia? (14)
Possibly a disease carrier, a la Insane.
A teacher and a preacher, a mouse and a house all fear or love the hammer (15)
?
I'm not sure if this is the same person as number 11, but they both refer to a hammer. If so, then I'm missing a clue.
There are a few roles that I haven't figured out yet. Also, from this list, I don't know which roles are likely to be anti-town. Any thoughts?
As has been previously mentioned in the thread, one of these roles is supposed to be a Vote Nullifier. I don't see that in this list so I've probably missed a clue.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Sighhh
The PM mentioned that my vote was lost due to corruption, and I'm forced to choose someone else. Perhaps it's not a direct role of vote nullification, but something like "one random vote vs a mafia member is changed" etc.
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EPT
