On October 29 2010 07:43 CubEdIn wrote: And what happens if we elect a mayor and he's mafia?
See, I only played haunted before, so I'm only getting used to the basics, but this one seems pretty crazy, so what guarantee is that we elect a good mayor with little to no information about him/her?
Also, do we know of anyone who is definitely blue?
having a mafia as mayor is a blessing and curse for the mafia
the extra vote power (which im guessing mayor has in this game) is super useful late game but mayor also has a lot of extra scrutiny on him which means he has to play very well.
don't vote for jcarlsoniv he's inexperienced and mostly inactive, not good
orgolove is bad and shouldn't be mayor either
mayor should be an experienced player so we have an experienced player that is protected. medics should also protect our most experienced/best players (ace, bumatlarge, brownbear, infundibulum, etc.)
i'm voting for bumatlarge since he's the best one running currently
On October 29 2010 09:13 Amber[LighT] wrote: I think if it came down to it I would vote for Pandain. Bumatlarge is mafia at least 3 out of every 4 games. He's just as likely to be mafia as you, DrH.
On October 29 2010 09:13 Amber[LighT] wrote: I think if it came down to it I would vote for Pandain. Bumatlarge is mafia at least 3 out of every 4 games. He's just as likely to be mafia as you, DrH.
the past is the past!
people don't forget :>
You gotta admit the mods always have fascinations with keeping the usual suspects on the mafia side. I wouldn't be surprised if either of you turned red.
i wouldn't be surprised if anyone turned red since we're all equally likely to be red
On October 29 2010 08:44 orgolove wrote: If I am voted the town mayor, I will setup a new spreadsheet. It should be much easier to maintain since it's 40 people.
This is enough for me to keep from voting for you. >_<. That damn spreadsheet caused quite a bit of trouble last game...
Yeah, because it revealed you as the mafia huh. -_-
Mhmm. I think I had about 70% hit rate of weeding out the reds, with my only mistakes coming from people who acted real scummy that game. I'd return it to you - mistakenly killing 1 out of the 3 remaining mafia and heavily favoring the vampire's victory? -_- pretty "bad" as a host I'd say.
ok host a game with 61 people and make no mistakes. seeing as your spreadsheet was rifled with errors from day 1 maybe you shouldn't criticize me so much
On October 29 2010 09:37 NB wrote: my opinion on who should get to be major: if Mr.A is major, after that night he still survive => he must be mafia => got lynched on the next day in another word voting for major is like voting for someone who should die in the next day. Noticed that if the major is just town, Mafia could easily kill him on day 1 no problem :3....
Also i wana confirm: after 1 major die, could we vote for a new one or we just move on without 1?... i love the idea of voting for a new one.
no
mayor has bodyguards, the bodyguards must first be killed before the mayor can die at night. lynching the mayor because he didn't die isn't the right way to go about it
typically you don't vote for a new mayor and he only chooses the first lynch and after that his only power is his votes are worth 3-5 votes
On October 29 2010 09:38 LunarDestiny wrote: I don't agree with the idea that the first supporting vote doesn't mean anything. If someone accumulates just a few votes, a bandwagon will start. The mafia would not want to help starting a bandwagon where a blue role becomes the mayor.
This is true. It's kinda hard to interpret day 1 votes without more information gained later in the game or without really analysing posting behavior well. Right now there isn't much to say but you did well pointing out the alignment probabilities if either myself or bumatlarge die.
On October 29 2010 09:52 NB wrote: @GM: also please clarify what you mean earlier about mafia has 2+1 KP? whats the meaning of +1
The Mafia only has 2 conventional KP. I can say no more.
my guess is that the mafia has a role that can infect someone with murrayitis. if this is the case that role is our #1 target as town and is the role that mafia would probably want to have as mayor, since mayor is generally immune to rolechecks and special roles can not usually be godfather
On October 29 2010 10:02 Misder wrote: Since we're all blue (well, the town is), won't it be difficult for the mafia to know who to focus down, esp since they don't even know what roles there are? I'm just questioning since even if you role claim, it doesn't really do anything bad for the town.
I'd actually argue the other way. If we all role claim, we are able to check what other people do during the night action and see if it fits into their role. Also, the mafia won't know what roles there are, so their going to have to make their roles up. The biggest flaw in this is that then, the mafia will know what roles there are and who they are, but if we are able to weed the mafia out fast enough, its an easy town victory.
if we all role claim 1. mafia can discern which roles are the stronest and focus those people down
also, like you said, since everyone is blue the mafia isn't bluesniping in this game. so their priority should be experienced players. so our medics if we have any should be protecting our most experienced players
also pay attention in the late game. any experienced player who is not dead is highly suspicious. in brownbears mafia game no one wondered why bloodcobbler and me survived to the end when it was obvious the mafia were just hitting experienced players. we can't let that happen
From now on I'm going to highlight questions to the mod in bold and green. Everyone should do this, it'll make thins easier on any mod who is scanning the thread.
Does the person with murrayitis know they have murrayitis?
On October 29 2010 09:52 NB wrote: also: can a bodyguard be a mayor? and what if it happen?
@GM: also please clarify what you mean earlier about mafia has 2+1 KP? whats the meaning of +1
in a game with bodyguards, bodyguards are selected after the election, not before
so mayor cannot be a bg
please explain more on this, im REALLY confused... i wana be mayor but i cant be a role without understanding it first >.<
if you dont understand the role you should not be it and i suggest no one ever vote for you
that being said it usually works like this. mayor is elected and then x amount of townies are chosen at random and given the additional role of bodyguard. the mayor cannot be hit at night/rolechecked until all his bodyguards are dead. the bodyguards typically do not know who other bodyguards are.
mafia can sometimes choose to have someone come in and become a bodyguard, which is very useful because if the other bodyguards are dead and the mafia bodyguard is not they can hit the mayor. or if the mayor is mafia he can have allied bodyguards.
On October 29 2010 10:43 Misder wrote: So I only heard from DH about the mass roleclaiming idea. To me, I feel that its more advantagious to the town than it is disadvantagious, but I want to hear from more of you guys about it.
I think I've missed his post, but do NOT mass role claim. There is no role list in this game, so there are plenty of room for fake roles. In case of mass role claim, the real beneficiary here is the Mafia. If what you say is true, we have to look at DH more, as he definitely knows better.
On October 29 2010 13:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote: interesting claim fishball
is this like the masons who are a group that can talk through pms and nothing else or do you have an additional power that comes with this?
Like mentioned in my post: - All member does not know each others role
Which means, on top of the ability that we can PM each other, we all have our "real" roles. PM within this group is a secondary ability.
I see. That is very interesting. Artanis did mention the possibility of there being several factions that can talk to eachother.
I'm not really sure why mafia wouldn't come out and claim this early on if they were part of this additional group. I can see why it's a pro-town thing to do, to establish the town circle, but mafia could benefit immensely from having the control/leadership position in this case.
On October 29 2010 14:02 LunarDestiny wrote: Fishball, I hope you are not bsing and fucking with us.
If what Fishball said is true, then Artanis is the one fucking with us. Then this game is indeed insane.
Back to topic, I don't think we should vote Fishball as mayor because making him as mayor does not benefit the town since his "supposely dt role mentioned by jcarlsoniv" does not help him use mayor's first day lynch ability. Furthermore, it is dangerous to have the other 5 members role claim to him. What if he is a mafia then there goes our 5 blue roles.
The counter argument to voting for Fishball is he is experienced. Assuming the town circle thing is true, he also mention the circle got six members which I predict that there is 1 or 0 mafia in it. The ratio of 0/6 or 1/6 is less than the ratio 9/39 (number of mafia over number of players).
the person who is in charge of a town circle, whether mafia have infiltrated it or not, should be protected but highly scrutinized
i see no real danger to electing him. he can be lynched if his behavior becomes overly suspicious.
On October 29 2010 13:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote: interesting claim fishball
is this like the masons who are a group that can talk through pms and nothing else or do you have an additional power that comes with this?
Like mentioned in my post: - All member does not know each others role
Which means, on top of the ability that we can PM each other, we all have our "real" roles. PM within this group is a secondary ability.
I see. That is very interesting. Artanis did mention the possibility of there being several factions that can talk to eachother.
I'm not really sure why mafia wouldn't come out and claim this early on if they were part of this additional group. I can see why it's a pro-town thing to do, to establish the town circle, but mafia could benefit immensely from having the control/leadership position in this case.
Correct me if I'm wrong?
If I were Mafia, I would try to fish out the roles of each members, or any sort of information within the circle. But you're right, there is still the possibility of Mafia coming out and try to aim for the Mayor's voting power and extra cushion of protection.
Correct, but I don't see how claiming you're part of the circle prevents you from doing that.
It does welcome a lot more scrutiny upon yourself that would be undesired if you were mafia trying to ruin the town circle. I'm torn, but I guess I'd rather have someone protected that is in some sort of circle than a mayor who can't really give us much information/coordinate anything.
On October 29 2010 14:20 bumatlarge wrote: I was hoping someone had a role that could make a circle. Have to be careful with that, but it beats my idea. Kinda skeptical though, this circle might not even exist but thats for the future, eager to see how this progresses.
VERY SUSPICIOUS FISHBALL.
simple
someone other than fishball must post pm's from the circle to prove it exists. it could just be pm's about something insignificant.
mafia would be dumb to risk that because if one of them flipped red everyone else involved int he claim would be killed as well
On October 29 2010 14:55 youngminii wrote: I buy fishball's story. I don't buy bum's.
elaborate on why please
this is a very "scumbuddy" sort of post and it's making me feel just a tad nervous
i'm not trying to point a big FoS your way or anything, but it's pretty easy for scum to get by with stuff like that. it's important you explain why you do what you do
On October 29 2010 14:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lying can be advantageous if you're town
as long as you do it smartly
Yeah - except he got himself lynched within a day after that post >.<
I didn't say he did it smartly :o
Aztrorisk in a lot of ways was smart to claim jack o lantern instead of dt which he was, which I thought was stupid initially but it ended up working out well for him it seems.
On October 29 2010 15:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: omg guys what if fishball bumatlarge are both scum and bumatlarge backed out so that when fishball flips scum he'll look town
can you explain why under these circumstances bum would look town
On October 29 2010 15:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: omg guys what if fishball bumatlarge are both scum and bumatlarge backed out so that when fishball flips scum he'll look town
are we going to turn this whole thread into wifom
wifom to a certain extent is necessary in mafia but i was half kidding really
Is Fishball bad? As far as I know he's a very experienced player. This is only my 5th game and I wasn't involved in any of the old games so I can't really meta very well.
To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have.
On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have.
having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game
On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have.
having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game
Well we don't even know if this circle actually exists. I suspect it does, but until someone else within the circle steps forward, we won't know for sure.
if the circle doesn't exist, we lynch fishball. it's that simple.
we rolecheck those who claim to be in the circle.
now imagine these scenarios: neutral circle, 5 town aligned players 1 mafia players neutral circle 6 town aligned players neutral circle 3 town aligned players, 3 mafia players
from a meta/balance standpoint i find it highly unlikely that mafia outnumber/equal people in this circle. lets say you are the 1 mafia (maybe there are 2) in this scenario. your best move is to come out, post a pm from the circle, and prove it exists
the dt rolechecks you, you flip scum, this incriminates fishball who is blue.
that's why we need everyone in the circle to come out and claim it now. prove it through fishball, who will post his PM correspondence with you. talk about something related to the game (an off topic pm can be sent by any player to any player without fear of modkill) and post it ITT
if the circle is a fake by scum, we'll win the game by forcing all scum to claim or at least get an easy lynch on fishball
if the circle is what fishball claims it to be, then we have a protected member who can communicate outside of the game thread with other players (including mafia) and appears to have an important secondary role. since he is protected by bodyguards, he should claim that role as soon as he is elected and plague doctors should protect him.
he comes in to support bum with no reasoning. why even post in that case? if i didn't care enough to make an argument i'd just vote without posting in the thread.
looking at haunted mafia I noticed a funny scum tendency which was that they would always try to justify their votes in the thread (mafia/vampires feel inherently guilty because they know their own role) and they would just post something
like quickstriker would come in and say "yeah im not buying x's argument and im currently going to vote for y because of what i have read in this thread"
why do we care? why did you even share that with us youngminii?
i have nowhere to put the FoS but on you. the fact that bum dropped out is weird and makes it kinda unlikely he is scum unless another scum is running and gaining more popularity.
On October 30 2010 04:14 kitaman27 wrote: Hey all, sorry I'm late. Just got off my flight from Liquidvania. You wouldn't believe the lines. People must be dying to get out of there (sorry I couldn't resist.)
I haven't decided who to vote for as Mayor yet, but I do have two requests.
First off, I would like to see an additional person claim from this "secret 6 person circle". If it exists, odds are incredibly likely that a mafia member is one of the members. If that's the case, then the mafia already knows the identities of all six members. So what harm is there to come forth to the town identifying yourself?
Secondly, I would like to hear how the Mayor plans to use their first day lynch. Will it be based on the majority opinion of the town, a suspicious set of posts during the first 48 hours, or a power player you are intimidated by? Do you already have an idea of who you want to use it on? In order for a candidate to receive my vote, I require they address this issue.
Good luck all ^_^
not just an additional person, everyone in the circle should claim. mafia doesn't have incentive to kill them for it so it's all good.
even if fishball isn't elected, we should go through with my gambit
that is if no one else from the circle claims at the end of the day, we lynch fishball. everyone who claims gets rolechecked to make sure it isn't a big mafia trick.
if it is a big mafia trick: we win the game, easy as that.
if the mafia ditch fishball: first day mafia kill, woo!
the only troubling scenario is where only the few mafia in the group come forward or say, the mafia in the group get rolechecked first, then we start killing the townies in the circle.
I think maybe electing Fishball might be a bad idea since he is then unable to be rolechecked. Mafia doesn't want to kill people in the circle, since if they are in it, they want to manipulate the information as much as possible.
also I suggest a plague doctor does not visit the mayor tonight. that is for reasons I can not tell you.
I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player
On October 30 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i have nowhere to put the FoS but on you. the fact that bum dropped out is weird and makes it kinda unlikely he is scum unless another scum is running and gaining more popularity.
Who do you think that this other scum running would be?
Youngminii didn't propose a campaign, did he? I do agree that it's funny that bum dropped out though...
i have a weird feeling about pandain
most of the people voting for him aren't giving much reason and he's winning in votes while most of the discussion ITT has been about fishballs candidacy
On October 30 2010 04:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: even if fishball isn't elected, we should go through with my gambit
that is if no one else from the circle claims at the end of the day, we lynch fishball. everyone who claims gets rolechecked to make sure it isn't a big mafia trick.
Wait, what? If nobody claims, then we kill Fishball, and then rolecheck the people who claimed (0 people)? That's...what?
also I suggest a plague doctor does not visit the mayor tonight. that is for reasons I can not tell you.
I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player
Well that's kinda fishy. That makes me think that you know of someone who has a suicide bomber role or something of that sort.
if nobody claims we kill fishball
if people start claiming, we rolecheck them
this has 3 possible outcomes: 1. lynch fishball the mafia 2. uncover a bad mafia play and lynch several mafia 3. confirm the existence of a circle consisting of players of random alignments
On October 30 2010 04:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player
On October 30 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i have nowhere to put the FoS but on you. the fact that bum dropped out is weird and makes it kinda unlikely he is scum unless another scum is running and gaining more popularity.
Who do you think that this other scum running would be?
Youngminii didn't propose a campaign, did he? I do agree that it's funny that bum dropped out though...
i have a weird feeling about pandain
most of the people voting for him aren't giving much reason and he's winning in votes while most of the discussion ITT has been about fishballs candidacy
These two statements don't really match up...
sure they do
in both i said i have a weird gut feeling he is scum, but i have no real logical reason to suspect him. he's a transparent player and if he is elected a scum mayor he will get himself and probably several of his scumbuddies killed in the process.
i'd just like to see more enthusiasm/reasoning from his bandwagon
On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have.
having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game
Well we don't even know if this circle actually exists. I suspect it does, but until someone else within the circle steps forward, we won't know for sure.
if the circle doesn't exist, we lynch fishball. it's that simple.
we rolecheck those who claim to be in the circle.
now imagine these scenarios: neutral circle, 5 town aligned players 1 mafia players neutral circle 6 town aligned players neutral circle 3 town aligned players, 3 mafia players
from a meta/balance standpoint i find it highly unlikely that mafia outnumber/equal people in this circle. lets say you are the 1 mafia (maybe there are 2) in this scenario. your best move is to come out, post a pm from the circle, and prove it exists
the dt rolechecks you, you flip scum, this incriminates fishball who is blue.
that's why we need everyone in the circle to come out and claim it now. prove it through fishball, who will post his PM correspondence with you. talk about something related to the game (an off topic pm can be sent by any player to any player without fear of modkill) and post it ITT
if the circle is a fake by scum, we'll win the game by forcing all scum to claim or at least get an easy lynch on fishball
if the circle is what fishball claims it to be, then we have a protected member who can communicate outside of the game thread with other players (including mafia) and appears to have an important secondary role. since he is protected by bodyguards, he should claim that role as soon as he is elected and plague doctors should protect him.
How do you identify the one mafia player in a group of 6? You're ignoring the odds in this scenario. Or is there something I'm missing? I'm still not cool with role claiming. It's going to create headaches to sift through countless and infinite role possibilities. It will clutter this thread with nonsense finger-pointing.
If anything claiming to Fishball is safer, so then he can direct actions. The town as a whole doesn't need to know what everyone's roles are. Only Fishball needs to know, which then I would see a valid reason for Fishball to take the mayor position. This doesn't "confirm" Fishball, but we would then have to take the risk of electing a possible mafioso. We will know if things aren't looking right by Day 3/4 anyway.
ANd as someone already said, Fishball has something we can trace back. He is now accountable for the actions of this "PM Group," if one exists. I need more convincing before I throw a vote on him though.
i'm not cool with roleclaiming either, but people in this group should come out. it is otherwise too easy for fishball to lie about this. if we know who is in the circle, we know who has out of game information, we know who to keep an eye on as town.
if there are mafia in that circle they will have to play twice as good as they would normally have to play. if the whole circle is mafia, faking it to save fishball, we will likely dominate them and win the game easily
do you get where I'm going with this? even if there is only 1 mafia in the circle, we at least confirm there is a circle with townies in it and that is useful information for us. it's not necessarily about finding and killing mafia (it would be lovely, in fact i hope it's all a mafia lie), but it's a win/win scenario for town no matter what happens.
On October 30 2010 04:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player
On October 30 2010 04:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 04:17 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On October 30 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i have nowhere to put the FoS but on you. the fact that bum dropped out is weird and makes it kinda unlikely he is scum unless another scum is running and gaining more popularity.
Who do you think that this other scum running would be?
Youngminii didn't propose a campaign, did he? I do agree that it's funny that bum dropped out though...
i have a weird feeling about pandain
most of the people voting for him aren't giving much reason and he's winning in votes while most of the discussion ITT has been about fishballs candidacy
These two statements don't really match up...
sure they do
in both i said i have a weird gut feeling he is scum, but i have no real logical reason to suspect him. he's a transparent player and if he is elected a scum mayor he will get himself and probably several of his scumbuddies killed in the process.
i'd just like to see more enthusiasm/reasoning from his bandwagon
Well they don't quite match up because in the first you're saying you will vote for him even though you find him supicious. In the second you say you find it weird that he has so many votes when most of the discussion has been on Fishball, and you criticize the bandwagon...but you're joining the bandwagon? I don't get your logic.
basically i'm prioritizing
i think it's more important we get this circle thing sorted out and knowing fishballs role is important
there is a way i may be able to confirm whether or not he is mafia if he is elected mayor. electing him may not be a bad idea. i'm switching to pandain for now while i think about it.
On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have.
having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game
Well we don't even know if this circle actually exists. I suspect it does, but until someone else within the circle steps forward, we won't know for sure.
if the circle doesn't exist, we lynch fishball. it's that simple.
we rolecheck those who claim to be in the circle.
now imagine these scenarios: neutral circle, 5 town aligned players 1 mafia players neutral circle 6 town aligned players neutral circle 3 town aligned players, 3 mafia players
from a meta/balance standpoint i find it highly unlikely that mafia outnumber/equal people in this circle. lets say you are the 1 mafia (maybe there are 2) in this scenario. your best move is to come out, post a pm from the circle, and prove it exists
the dt rolechecks you, you flip scum, this incriminates fishball who is blue.
that's why we need everyone in the circle to come out and claim it now. prove it through fishball, who will post his PM correspondence with you. talk about something related to the game (an off topic pm can be sent by any player to any player without fear of modkill) and post it ITT
if the circle is a fake by scum, we'll win the game by forcing all scum to claim or at least get an easy lynch on fishball
if the circle is what fishball claims it to be, then we have a protected member who can communicate outside of the game thread with other players (including mafia) and appears to have an important secondary role. since he is protected by bodyguards, he should claim that role as soon as he is elected and plague doctors should protect him.
How do you identify the one mafia player in a group of 6? You're ignoring the odds in this scenario. Or is there something I'm missing? I'm still not cool with role claiming. It's going to create headaches to sift through countless and infinite role possibilities. It will clutter this thread with nonsense finger-pointing.
If anything claiming to Fishball is safer, so then he can direct actions. The town as a whole doesn't need to know what everyone's roles are. Only Fishball needs to know, which then I would see a valid reason for Fishball to take the mayor position. This doesn't "confirm" Fishball, but we would then have to take the risk of electing a possible mafioso. We will know if things aren't looking right by Day 3/4 anyway.
ANd as someone already said, Fishball has something we can trace back. He is now accountable for the actions of this "PM Group," if one exists. I need more convincing before I throw a vote on him though.
i'm not cool with roleclaiming either, but people in this group should come out. it is otherwise too easy for fishball to lie about this. if we know who is in the circle, we know who has out of game information, we know who to keep an eye on as town.
if there are mafia in that circle they will have to play twice as good as they would normally have to play. if the whole circle is mafia, faking it to save fishball, we will likely dominate them and win the game easily
do you get where I'm going with this? even if there is only 1 mafia in the circle, we at least confirm there is a circle with townies in it and that is useful information for us. it's not necessarily about finding and killing mafia (it would be lovely, in fact i hope it's all a mafia lie), but it's a win/win scenario for town no matter what happens.
Dr.H, I don't understand you.
You were in full support of Fishball, because the opportunities that can arise from this alleged circle are great. Even in this post, you are supporting the possibilities of the usefulness of this circle. But then you change your vote to Pandain? Why?
Right now, I feel like Fishball is a good candidate. I think the benefits of having him in the circle could very well outweigh the negatives of having a Mayor who can talk in private. However, I will not give him my vote until someone else from the circle steps forward.
because mayor can't be rolechecked thats why im not voting for fishball
but i can further confirm the possibility that he is town in the night (my role is sorta complex and im just figuring out all of its applications) and i'm considering changing back and putting more pressure on the pandainwagon
this makes more sense, why would a scumbuddy come to the fake rescue of someone who isn't scum. that gives me more to think about. I'd really really really like a DT to rolecheck fishball. I can only kinda determine whether they may or may not be town and even then it ends up in a bit of a WIFOM situation.
the reason i feel weird about pandain is because his election reminds me a lot of the time when i was elected as scum mayor in my first mafia game and the way its going is very similar to that.
i wish there were more than 2 legitimate candidates that both come off as suspicious to me.
now that youngminii was voting for fishball, I'm less sure. I know youngminii in haunted mafia when he was vampire, he was a smart guy and always explained what he said in vampire chat. he's not the kind who would just say meaningless bullshit if he was town imo
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.)
On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.)
Whoashit, this changes EVERYTHING. I'm very curious as to what you mean by not needing a Plague Doctor... some sort of immunity to Murrayitis? Or perhaps you're Mafia, and your role is to spread the virus... On the other hand, your posts so far do point you out as a townie, and your experience in past games does lend you the sort of aura of command I think a Mayor needs.
I'll ponder this some more.
i will tell everyone exactly what my role is and what it does and then I will confirm my role to someone who has been rolechecked who can then confirm it in the thread
that's all very confusing
but basically as soon as I am elected I will prove I am not mafia or you can lynch me.
On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.)
Whoashit, this changes EVERYTHING. I'm very curious as to what you mean by not needing a Plague Doctor... some sort of immunity to Murrayitis? Or perhaps you're Mafia, and your role is to spread the virus... On the other hand, your posts so far do point you out as a townie, and your experience in past games does lend you the sort of aura of command I think a Mayor needs.
I'll ponder this some more.
i will tell everyone exactly what my role is and what it does and then I will confirm my role to someone who has been rolechecked who can then confirm it in the thread
that's all very confusing
but basically as soon as I am elected I will prove I am not mafia or you can lynch me.
How are you going to find and recruit a Detective role, and convince him to cooperate? I mean, we're all pretty much in the dark here, so unless a Detective acts of his own accord, I don't see how you'd find one to help, short of being in Fishball's circle (assuming it exists at all).
On October 30 2010 04:55 annul wrote: i havent thought of who i would lynch because there hasnt been any traction for my candidacy yet
but i think mayor candidates shouldnt reveal this anyway because if they would go after a mafia, it may incentivize other mafia to vote against them or to not vote for them when they otherwise would
I admit, I didn't think of this. Good point, Annul. I won't press the issue any further.
This is true.
But I can confirm that I am the role I say I am. The only problem is confirming it to the right person.
On October 30 2010 04:59 annul wrote: fyi i will reveal my role too when i get elected, dont let drh use this as a point when ive been saying this too all game
why are you attacking me? i never said i'm the only person revealing my role, but can you use it to prove that you are a town player?
what are you offering aside from that? i'm pretty sure everyone running is gonna roleclaim when they are elected.
why bother to try and make me look bad? why not just say "i'm gonna roleclaim too", why even bring me up?
On October 30 2010 04:59 annul wrote: fyi i will reveal my role too when i get elected, dont let drh use this as a point when ive been saying this too all game
why are you attacking me? i never said i'm the only person revealing my role, but can you use it to prove that you are a town player?
what are you offering aside from that? i'm pretty sure everyone running is gonna roleclaim when they are elected.
why bother to try and make me look bad? why not just say "i'm gonna roleclaim too", why even bring me up?
It's an election, and Annul ran a smear ad. Nothing unusual. =)
that kind of behavior still must be examined, don't write it off too quickly
FoS or Finger of Suspicion is basically a marker of suspicion that isn't strong enough to warrant a vote/lynch. Players who are FoS'd should be more carefully examined by the town.
so they can convert people into their PM circle I guess, passing on the power of PMing. that could be very interesting and it would change the dynamics of my whole gambit
somehow it makes me more suspicious of fishball, but I need to think about it more
On October 30 2010 05:06 Pandain wrote: Need I remind you that I had coordinated blues in that game and was leading the town towards victory until I got shot. Of course, I used less than ideal means, but it worked.
On October 30 2010 05:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: artanis told me it is possible that people can be converted into a neutral circle (the one fishball talked about) and that masons may be active.
so they can convert people into their PM circle I guess, passing on the power of PMing. that could be very interesting and it would change the dynamics of my whole gambit
somehow it makes me more suspicious of fishball, but I need to think about it more
That seems more like a Cult to me than a group of Masons.
artanis said that there could be masons in this game and that people could potentially be converted tot he town circle
as far as i know masons do not have a seperate win condition, thats what makes them different than cultists. you retain your alignment when you are converted so to speak
On October 30 2010 05:06 Pandain wrote: Need I remind you that I had coordinated blues in that game and was leading the town towards victory until I got shot. Of course, I used less than ideal means, but it worked.
(For what it's worth, I thought the "yum yum" was cute...)
On October 30 2010 05:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: artanis told me it is possible that people can be converted into a neutral circle (the one fishball talked about) and that masons may be active.
so they can convert people into their PM circle I guess, passing on the power of PMing. that could be very interesting and it would change the dynamics of my whole gambit
somehow it makes me more suspicious of fishball, but I need to think about it more
That seems more like a Cult to me than a group of Masons.
artanis said that there could be masons in this game and that people could potentially be converted tot he town circle
as far as i know masons do not have a seperate win condition, thats what makes them different than cultists. you retain your alignment when you are converted so to speak
So it is not a "neutral circle"? It is a town-aligned circle? Kinda a big difference.
no, the players alignment doesn't matter. they can pm eachother but each person still has their original win condition
so if mafia is in the group they win when mafia wins
if town is in the group they win when town wins
that group doesn't have a win condition, they aren't a faction so to speak
of course the intricacies of what artanis may or may not have planned elude me and the rest of us and it could have its own separate power roles or any manner of crazy shit
On October 30 2010 05:06 Pandain wrote: Need I remind you that I had coordinated blues in that game and was leading the town towards victory until I got shot. Of course, I used less than ideal means, but it worked.
(For what it's worth, I thought the "yum yum" was cute...)
On October 30 2010 05:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: artanis told me it is possible that people can be converted into a neutral circle (the one fishball talked about) and that masons may be active.
so they can convert people into their PM circle I guess, passing on the power of PMing. that could be very interesting and it would change the dynamics of my whole gambit
somehow it makes me more suspicious of fishball, but I need to think about it more
That seems more like a Cult to me than a group of Masons.
artanis said that there could be masons in this game and that people could potentially be converted tot he town circle
as far as i know masons do not have a seperate win condition, thats what makes them different than cultists. you retain your alignment when you are converted so to speak
So it is not a "neutral circle"? It is a town-aligned circle? Kinda a big difference.
no, the players alignment doesn't matter. they can pm eachother but each person still has their original win condition
so if mafia is in the group they win when mafia wins
if town is in the group they win when town wins
that group doesn't have a win condition, they aren't a faction so to speak
of course the intricacies of what artanis may or may not have planned elude me and the rest of us and it could have its own separate power roles or any manner of crazy shit
it could also not even exist
Ah, ok, that makes sense.
And yeah, the uncertainty of everything makes me scared face.
i think it would be nice to have masons
it's really quite simple, you just give people the power to pm over time.
On October 30 2010 05:54 Node wrote: All right, I'm going to lay down some of my own cards on the table.
I'm seriously considering running for mayor. What I am going to divulge at this point is that I have what I believe is a very powerful role, but I wouldn't feel comfortable revealing it without some level of protection (bodyguards). Because of the nature of the role, I would be able to confirm that I am what I say I am by the second day. The role does not involve the ability to PM others.
If I run for mayor, I will outright roleclaim then and there what I am under the assumption that it would be enough to get me elected.
I want to know if this is a good idea. I realize that it would be asking others to elect me purely because of my role -- I am fairly new at this game and made some horrendous decisions in Haunted Mafia, though if you check my boogeyman visits I had some pretty good hunches about who was red.
Thoughts?
offering the same thing as me, as I can also confirm my role to others without PMing
but you were a pretty good boogeyman I'll give you that
On October 30 2010 05:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: artanis told me it is possible that people can be converted into a neutral circle (the one fishball talked about) and that masons may be active.
so they can convert people into their PM circle I guess, passing on the power of PMing. that could be very interesting and it would change the dynamics of my whole gambit
somehow it makes me more suspicious of fishball, but I need to think about it more
Well gee, that's curious. I wonder if we go back to bumatlarge's posts and why he said Fishball's method, if true, was faster, what we can put together. Well, I suppose his reasons are still unknown then?
Do not vote pandain. Vote anyone but pandain. I say it should be me or fishball. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS STATED ABOVE.
I never really retracted my run :/ misinformation!
And when I get back from work I'm gonna really go through what people are spreading around.
On October 29 2010 14:31 orgolove wrote: At this point, I haven't seen Pandein or bumatlarge bring anything more to the table. Especially considering:
1. bumatlarge voted for himself within a minute after the game started -_- without providing anything he could bring to the table
2. Pandein, who kinda sorta lied in Haunted mafia:
On October 17 2010 03:04 Pandain wrote:
On October 17 2010 03:03 Divinek wrote: you have a dt who checked jodo and he came back vampire and you think heaven is mafia?
just trying to clear it up so i can pick it apart properly
Yes. In addition, it appears the previous sentence referred to the silver instrument specifically as a hammer. keep that in mind.
On October 10 2010 07:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Sign-up List:
4. jodogohoo (Grim Reaper)
I haven't seen any better candidate yet.
I've stated that I have a plan, but Fishball's does it much faster. And now that he's already stated it, I'll back out. I don't think it makes him any more town then me, and I don't think it puts me in any real danger, because mafia can glean from what I've stated that I'm not a strong-blue. Everyone has a role
How will you can confirm your role as a pro-town player? I can do this as soon as I am elected and I promise to do so or I am offering myself up for a lynch.
Wouldn't it be better to have someone that is 100% confirmed pro-town put into the circle, protected, and having them coordinating/relaying information to the town? I have an ability that will be extremely useful in coordination for our blues as well.
There is uncertainty with you and fishball and I'd rather have you guys open to rolechecks. I can prove I am who I say I am without a DT.
On October 30 2010 06:15 Coagulation wrote: Doc you are all over the place with votes man I will think about voting for you because i think you are very experienced however
On October 30 2010 00:26 Coagulation wrote: We need someone who is good at mafia but terrible at manipulation.
pandain is probably the best candidate under these parameters. he is an extremely organized and tactical scum hunter his analyses skills are good and he has a good level head about what needs to be done.
i have also noticed that he is a terrible lier and his posting style makes his motives extremely transparent. this would make it much easier for us to spot a slip up if he is mafia. and greatly increases the chances that he would fail at getting away with scum moves if it turns out he is a red.
I feel like if DocH Is a red we would never know.
you would know immediately
did you even read the thread? i am going to prove that I am my blue role as soon as I am elected.
if i was a red you wouldn't know because I wouldn't be making this play
On October 30 2010 06:17 Node wrote: The downside of secrecy is due to the nature of this particular game it's impossible to reveal any information without putting your head on the line. It's not exactly possible to be subtle -- it's all or nothing. I'm not in a position where I can gently guide town to the correct choices.
On October 30 2010 06:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote: actually it's pretty bad for town to have fewer candidates
Its even worse when several blues run claiming they are important..... since that means they're either mafia or going to get sniped off.
everyone is a blue in this game lol
i'm the only candidate aside from node who is claiming to offer 100% proof that I am not mafia when I'm elected, just saying
you have offered nothing yet have a huge bandwagon behind you for whatever reason
read my previous post. valuable blue. fair enough
I can offer proof as well, albeit it will be somewhat indirect. Are you sure you can offer 100% proof? Why can you not just do it now? yes i can, but i need to go through the night phase
I myself have a valuable role, however I do not roleclaim because I know there's a chance I may lose, and do not want mafia knowing what I have. this is understandable of course
but what makes you a better candidate than me or fishball or bumatlarge?
you don't sound very proactive, that makes for a bad mayor
you'll probably just end up doing whatever mafia tell you to do. the mayor needs to have the balls to stand up against the town when they are wrong or when he is being fed lies by mafia and make decisions for himself sometimes
every time i run for scum mayor i say "ill side with the town and do what the town tells me" because it sounds so pro-town but really it just means "ill support whatever bandwagon the mafia starts"
whether you're scum or not is irrelevant to that point.
On October 30 2010 06:56 Amber[LighT] wrote: DrH I'm willing to throw my vote on you if you're going to seriously get the town organized. I am not confident about the FB vote and I still feel comfortable about Pandain, but if you really want the mayoral power I'll support you. You're the only person that's putting forth the effort to organize a strategic plan past the first night.
here is my basic plan for organization:
1. at night i can confirm to one player that I am who I say I am.
2. that player confirms to the town my role
3. hopefully masons will induct me into the circle
4. with my power i can help coordinate other roles, I don't want to say too much as to how right now.
There are only two scenarios in which the 1st step can fail. They are very very very very very very unlikely. If the person I confirm to is mafia, they can just lie and say I didn't confirm to them or never bring it up.
Mafia will be forced to confirm that I am blue, or I'll out them for lying.
I can be much more specific when I'm sure I can not be killed at night.
to be clear the second scenario in which i could fail in confirming my role is that the person is mafia. even if that happens they will be pressured to claim and I'm just going to come out and say who I confirmed to after a brief period so they can't lie about it without incriminating themselves
On October 30 2010 06:56 Amber[LighT] wrote: DrH I'm willing to throw my vote on you if you're going to seriously get the town organized. I am not confident about the FB vote and I still feel comfortable about Pandain, but if you really want the mayoral power I'll support you. You're the only person that's putting forth the effort to organize a strategic plan past the first night.
here is my basic plan for organization:
1. at night i can confirm to one player that I am who I say I am.
2. that player confirms to the town my role
3. hopefully masons will induct me into the circle
4. with my power i can help coordinate other roles, I don't want to say too much as to how right now.
There are only two scenarios in which the 1st step can fail. They are very very very very very very unlikely. If the person I confirm to is mafia, they can just lie and say I didn't confirm to them or never bring it up.
Mafia will be forced to confirm that I am blue, or I'll out them for lying.
I can be much more specific when I'm sure I can not be killed at night.
How will you confirm to one player your role if there are no PMs?
part of my power is to make my presence known to another player
On October 30 2010 07:08 Coagulation wrote: How do we know the person who is "verifying" your confirmation of your role isnt just a Scumbuddy of yours?
well they would be ideal for a rolecheck
this would be incredibly dangerous play as mafia to out my scumbuddies as the game progresses. every time i confirm to someone i will be claiming it.
it is possible the person i can confirm to is a mafia, i have no way of knowing someones alignment. but look at this play from the perspective of me being mafia and it really makes no sense. I'm going to out all of my mafia compatriots just to win the mayor position?
you'll see very soon that the information I'm providing will be beneficial to the town and we'll see real results in numbers.
I'm putting my head on a plate for you guys if I turn out to be a liar. I can back this up.
On October 30 2010 07:10 Coagulation wrote: Maybe Godfather Will verify so no one can DT check him properly thats possible right?
of course it's possible
but look at this play in the terms of the game overall. think for a minute that I am mafia. I would essentially be outing my entire team to the town over the course of the game.
On October 30 2010 07:10 Node wrote: DrH, you forgot another scenario in which the first step would fail. If you're mafia, you could just ask a buddy, or hell, the Godfather (presuming he exists) to confirm your role. He posts and the townies are none the wiser. The mafia gets inducted into every circle there is and is put in a position of power.
I'm not sold, yet.
there are other things to my power that will prove beyond any doubt that I am a pro-town player. they may not take affect immediately but everything will be quite clear when I am elected and roleclaim
On October 30 2010 07:17 jcarlsoniv wrote: Well, I see it this way. Dr.H has no reason to give us the names of another Mafia member just to get the Mayor position. I mean, sure, it's a nice position, but worth losing teammates over? Not sure...
There aren't 22 scum like there were in Haunted, there are many fewer (I forget exactly how many). This means that every time a mafia member dies, it is a bigger hit this game.
I hope there wouldn't be more than one shape-shifting role in the mafia.
One question though: Does the Godfather get chosen Day1 or Night1?
If Godfather gets chosen Night1, then Dr.H couldn't possibly be shapeshifting now. Also, since he is roleclaiming immediately after being elected, it wouldn't give the Mafia enough time to have a Godfather, so even if he's Mafia, the person he would be claiming to wouldn't be shapeshifting yet. Or something to that effect...
Godfather would be chosen on the first day I believe
I have a small chance of confirming myself to a mafia. Mafia can then come out, get rolechecked, and sacrifice themselves to kill me
So in the freak scenario that this happens I would plead town to wait a day before lynching me. Not to mention it could be the miller as well.
There are other things to my role that will confirm me as town but I want to make a disclaimer, I have no way of knowing what other players roles are (I certainly don't have DT powers) so I have as much chance as anyone of acting upon mafia.
On October 30 2010 07:27 Coagulation wrote: DocH You basically said YOU WILL PROVE your town and then basically said "MAYBE DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS I WILL PROVE IT IM NOT SURE"
I dont think pandain would be the greatest mayor However i would rather pandain then Annul and his manipulation if he is RED and i would rather pandain then fishbowl and his "EXTREMELY SHY?? circle" I would really really like for you to make me feel comfortable voting for you for mayor. but your doing a bad job so far.
let me put it this way
there is a 1/39 chance i will fail in confirming my role to the town
there are multiple ways i can prove my identity over the course of the day. so you would rather vote pandain who offers nothing? you're doing a bad job at discrediting me. considering that mafia are probably shitting their pants over the idea of a confirmed townie with great coordination powers become immune to nightkills I'm not surprised someone is trying their best
On October 30 2010 07:35 jcarlsoniv wrote: Ok, so operating under the assumption that the only shape shifter role is the Godfather:
If Dr.H is Godfather and claims to a Mafia who will then confirm his role as a blue, we can DT check them both and figure it out, even if we have to check one by one.
If Dr.H is Mafia and claims to Godfather, who would confirm him and shape shift, hoping to be checked and turn blue, then a check on Dr.H would find out his alignment.
If Dr.H accidentally claims to a Mafia, that fucking sucks, but he claims that this is low percentage, and he would be able to try to out them as Mafia.
I think Dr.H is a safe and smart choice.
P.S. If nobody from Fishball's "circle" steps forward in the next few hours, I want to place a FoS on Fishball.
part of me hopes i claim to a mafia just to place a huge amount of pressure on them
they basically have to admit i am who i say i am or die which is a lose/lose situation for them
It's important that I'm aware of anyone with the same role as me so I can confirm to them since they are guaranteed pro-town.
If you have my role, just leave a few codewords in your posts as you go along and I'll notice it. You'll know what to say. You'll be the first person I confirm to.
why would you vote for someone who can't confirm themselves as town aligned?
If I'm not elected, I will likely be protected by a medic. I'm not that worried about dying tonight if I lose the election.
what is your reason not to vote for me, because I'll die if I'm not elected? my role is really only useful if it's known to the town anyway. the most useful ability is to confirm myself as town to other players, it's ideal that a player with this role would be mayor.
On October 30 2010 08:07 Coagulation wrote: Because hes not trying really really super hard to be mayor i figure hes just a good honest townie offering to take the spot and do his best.
you guys are gonna start tearing each other to shreds over the role makes me think you got something else going on.
yet he has a huge bandwagon
you are really intent on making me look bad in this game aren't you. too bad you have no good reasons for it
I can't use my role effectively without claiming. The main use of my role is to coordinate other roles, so it is important that I am protected and able to do this. Since I can't use PM's there is no way for me to be quiet about it.
You're making a lot of assumptions about how I should use my role without knowing what it is. But you don't care what it is anyway right? Because your scumhunting will save us.
All I read in your post is that
1. you dont know what my role is but wantt to tell me how to use it 2. you dont care anyway 3. call me a bad player 4. talk about how great you are
On October 30 2010 08:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I can understand why you'd vote bum but I can't imagine why Pandain would be your second choice, or why anyone would vote for pandain really
The Pandain vote was just because I didn't want to vote for you or Fishball. I voted for bumatlarge though. If bum withdraws I'd vote for Pandain over you two. But hey we've got lots of time right? Maybe something will happen that makes me change my mind.
you'd vote for the scummiest candidate over someone who can use the mayoral role effectively to coordinate the use of our blues? that's dumb play.
On October 30 2010 08:14 Ace wrote: Where did I tell you how to use your role? If I did that isn't my intention. I really don't care about your role, I'm more interested in your ability as a scum hunter. So far you haven't shown the ability to think beyond 1 step of a plan so you don't seem worth it as a Mayoral candidate.
What makes you think I haven't planned out how to use my role throughout the game?
You're telling me to stay quiet and then come out tomorrow with what needs to be said.
I'm offering coordination to the town with guaranteed protection. If you don't think thats better than what pandain is offering (nothing) then I don't really know what to say.
What lack of foresight? My plans are long-term plans on how I will use my role to benefit the town. The first step is confirming my identity, the second step is using my powers to coordinate the town in a way that is crucial to our survival and victory.
I've put the finger of suspicion on more players than you. Coagulation, youngminii, you haven't really done much in the way of scumhunting either. Mind telling me who you think is scum, if anybody?
While scumhunting is important to me, being mayor will without a doubt maximize the effectiveness of my role and give the town coordination it needs in this game. It's pretty simple.
On October 30 2010 08:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I can understand why you'd vote bum but I can't imagine why Pandain would be your second choice, or why anyone would vote for pandain really
The Pandain vote was just because I didn't want to vote for you or Fishball. I voted for bumatlarge though. If bum withdraws I'd vote for Pandain over you two. But hey we've got lots of time right? Maybe something will happen that makes me change my mind.
you'd vote for the scummiest candidate over someone who can use the mayoral role effectively to coordinate the use of our blues? that's dumb play.
No. YOU think Pandain is scummy. I don't. Big difference.
On October 30 2010 08:14 Ace wrote: Where did I tell you how to use your role? If I did that isn't my intention. I really don't care about your role, I'm more interested in your ability as a scum hunter. So far you haven't shown the ability to think beyond 1 step of a plan so you don't seem worth it as a Mayoral candidate.
What makes you think I haven't planned out how to use my role throughout the game?
You're telling me to stay quiet and then come out tomorrow with what needs to be said.
I'm offering coordination to the town with guaranteed protection. If you don't think thats better than what pandain is offering (nothing) then I don't really know what to say.
What lack of foresight? My plans are long-term plans on how I will use my role to benefit the town. The first step is confirming my identity, the second step is using my powers to coordinate the town in a way that is crucial to our survival and victory.
I've put the finger of suspicion on more players than you. Coagulation, youngminii, you haven't really done much in the way of scumhunting either. Mind telling me who you think is scum, if anybody?
While scumhunting is important to me, being mayor will without a doubt maximize the effectiveness of my role and give the town coordination it needs in this game. It's pretty simple.
I think you're misunderstanding my lack of foresight comment. It was in reference to the statement I made about you outting yourself instead of just proving your ability on Night 1 and then revealing the information on Day 2.
Also be aware that I have NOT voted for Pandain. Stop pidgeon-holing me into his camp please
Besides, if Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for you? He only has to focus on a small subset of players to find Scum.
Well I'm outing myself now because I feel I can reliably survive whether or not I am elected and having the mayoral insurance means I can act as openly as I wish, a huge benefit to the town.
I am aware that you have not voted for Pandain. I consider you choosing him over me as a second option stupid. That's all. Considering he is my number one suspect, it grabs me.
So far, there is no way to verify Fishballs claim. No one in his circle has come out and claimed and a lot of the town is in agreement that a DT needs to check him. Artanis said, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, is that the mayor will simply return "mayor" on a rolecheck.
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? '
I understand the choice of bumatlarge. He is a good player and claims to have the ability to create a circle. However both Fishball/bumatlarge can be taken advantage of by the mafia on virtue of their abillities. There is no possible way my abilities can be manipulated to benefit the mafia, it's ideal for coordinating.
On October 30 2010 08:38 kitaman27 wrote: [quote="DoctorHelvetica"]I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player
[quote="DoctorHelvetica"]I can't imagine why Pandain would be your second choice, or why anyone would vote for pandain really[/quote]
Err....[/QUOTE] way to way way backtrack there. i've since changed my mind and adequately explained my reasoning thus far.
On October 30 2010 08:37 Ace wrote: I brought him up because you didn't say anything about him while asking about Pandain. I wanted to know why you think you're a better choice than him.
I think bumatlarge is good enough to know if he's being manipulated. However, how is it that you can't possibly be manipulated by Scum but can coordinate the town? Unless you have the ability to figure out roles in mass I'm not buying it. And I hope you aren't planning for a mass roleclaim because that would definitely be a red flag.
Because my ability isn't a communication one it doesn't rely on talking to others. All the information I receive from my role is reliable information that can be used for coordination purposes. That can't be manipulated.
I'm not immune to mafia started bandwagons.
And no I don't want a mass roleclaim, that would be idiotic
On October 30 2010 08:42 LunarDestiny wrote: when you quote, please quote the time too.
Those two posts have a big time difference between them.
but that wouldn't make me look scummy so what's the point right?
Four hour difference. Not exactly way way back if you ask me.
I'm just pointing out that you say there is no reason someone should vote Pandain, yet hours earlier you voted Pandain and gave a reason.
which i then discarded as bad when i changed my mind
4 hours is a lot of time in this game. I voted for Pandain because I felt wary about Fishball and at the time there was really no other viable candidate, since I thought bumatlarge was out of the race. If I didn't think that I would have gladly voted for bum instead.
I decided then the best thing to do would be to run myself and have since grown increasingly more suspicious of pandain based on the actions of his supporters who have thus far given little to no reason to vote for him
On October 30 2010 08:42 LunarDestiny wrote: when you quote, please quote the time too.
Those two posts have a big time difference between them.
but that wouldn't make me look scummy so what's the point right?
Four hour difference. Not exactly way way back if you ask me.
I'm just pointing out that you say there is no reason someone should vote Pandain, yet hours earlier you voted Pandain and gave a reason.
which i then discarded as bad when i changed my mind
4 hours is a lot of time in this game. I voted for Pandain because I felt wary about Fishball and at the time there was really no other viable candidate, since I thought bumatlarge was out of the race. If I didn't think that I would have gladly voted for bum instead.
I decided then the best thing to do would be to run myself and have since grown increasingly more suspicious of pandain based on the actions of his supporters who have thus far given little to no reason to vote for him
Fair enough. Can't blame me for wanting to see how a potential mayor handles criticism, although I think I would have preferred not being accused of not including a timestamp to make you look scummy.
No I can't blame you for that but can you understand why mafia would want to discredit a mayoral candidate who can prove he is town and coordinate blue roles effectively without the possibility of manipulation of the process?
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
you really think i could be mafia?
do you understand how outrageously fucking stupid I would be to play like this as mafia? not only would i have to consistently out my scumbuddies throughout the course of the game to the entire town but I would have to fake a beneficial blue role that I promised already shows real numerical results that cannot be faked
I am tying the noose around my neck to be hanged if I am lying.
How can you call me a shitty towny if I've never been a towny and you don't even suspect I'm townie in this game. Hilarious post.
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
sorry i have more to add
you don't trust any group of towny? what does that mean? how could having an information circle be bad even if there is a spy? That just puts more pressure on mafia.
Discredit fishball and me, the two most dangerous potential candidates for mafia. And yet you throw another vote onto Pandain who has so far had the biggest unreasonable bandwagon and appears to be offering nothing, at least nothing on the scale of what myself (who can 100% prove myself to be townie) am offering, or what the town can gain from having fishball as mayor.
no real analysis either. just a lot of empty bullshit that doesn't make any sense and an excuse for not voting. mafia benefit from late votes so they can gauge where a bandwagon goes and then fall into the correct place when they're sure that they can either get their scumbuddy elected or at least pick the least threatening town candidate
There are a few things you didn't respond to ace that I'd like you to revisit.
specifically this
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? '
On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor.
Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me.
Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that?
On October 30 2010 09:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: There are a few things you didn't respond to ace that I'd like you to revisit.
specifically this
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? '
I responded to the bolded already.
I'm voting for bumatlarge because I don't see any negatives with him. With you and Fishball I do. I've also already explained about Pandain.
It just seemed out of place that you would bring up fishballs candidacy as a point against me when you're against him as well, rather than asking why people should vote for me over bumatlarge instead
On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor.
Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me.
Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that?
Because people don't have to believe your going to do what you say? I think you're better off trying to show us from another angle why you need to be Mayor. With you and Fishball both saying you have to be mayor because of your role it's actually killing your chances imo.
So what's my plan then, assume for a minute I'm scum. To lie about proving I'm town, get elected, use the 1 lynch, and then die for the lie? Sacrifice myself for a single kill?
On October 30 2010 09:18 NB wrote: @DR.h: dont get me wrong, im still reading the thread to catch up but that post was my current summary of my thought on the current situation @_@... i have yet decided to vote on anybody so if you can convince me that you are more worthy than the other, i will vote for you :D...
again, no offends and please feel free to correct me ...
I already corrected you and I've already stated many many times in this thread why I feel I should be mayor. I'm not going to repeat my arguments for the sake of avoiding redundancy.
But it is really absurd that people are now bringing up the possibility that i'm a lying mafia when I feel I demonstrated quite a while ago that this is a huge improbability.
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
Actually, from a sense, I do need the Mayor role to scum hunt "within my small group", especially after I've decided to come out, there is no turning back.
It will all make sense when you know my role.
Is medic protection not enough?
If you are killed then wouldn't that increase suspicion on certain members of the group within the group itself?
Do you know the names of other players in the group and if so can you say who they are since they won't claim themselves? Otherwise there is really no reliable way to confirm your town alignment other than a DT check.
On October 30 2010 09:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: There are a few things you didn't respond to ace that I'd like you to revisit.
specifically this
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? '
I responded to the bolded already.
I'm voting for bumatlarge because I don't see any negatives with him. With you and Fishball I do. I've also already explained about Pandain.
It just seemed out of place that you would bring up fishballs candidacy as a point against me when you're against him as well, rather than asking why people should vote for me over bumatlarge instead
On October 30 2010 09:13 Ace wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor.
Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me.
Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that?
Because people don't have to believe your going to do what you say? I think you're better off trying to show us from another angle why you need to be Mayor. With you and Fishball both saying you have to be mayor because of your role it's actually killing your chances imo.
So what's my plan then, assume for a minute I'm scum. To lie about proving I'm town, get elected, use the 1 lynch, and then die for the lie? Sacrifice myself for a single kill?
1.) That wasn't being used as a point against you. I was talking about you, Fishball and Pandain as the remaining candidates who didn't have my vote. Nothing to do with bumatlarge.
2.) If you're Scum, get Mayor, lynch someone - how do you die? I don't know what roles are in the game and neither does anyone else. The name of the game is INSANE Mafia. Maybe you're scum with a role that can do something and look Pro-Town? I don't know and honestly, even if I did know the roles in the game that doesn't mean I'm going to take you at your word. There have been plenty of games where Scum says they promise to do something, like oh kill themselves and then WALLA! Something else happens, the Scum spin it to show that there is a better idea and the Scummy Martyr goes free. I'm not in the business on playing for promises.
I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
On October 30 2010 09:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: There are a few things you didn't respond to ace that I'd like you to revisit.
specifically this
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? '
I responded to the bolded already.
I'm voting for bumatlarge because I don't see any negatives with him. With you and Fishball I do. I've also already explained about Pandain.
It just seemed out of place that you would bring up fishballs candidacy as a point against me when you're against him as well, rather than asking why people should vote for me over bumatlarge instead
On October 30 2010 09:13 Ace wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor.
Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me.
Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that?
Because people don't have to believe your going to do what you say? I think you're better off trying to show us from another angle why you need to be Mayor. With you and Fishball both saying you have to be mayor because of your role it's actually killing your chances imo.
So what's my plan then, assume for a minute I'm scum. To lie about proving I'm town, get elected, use the 1 lynch, and then die for the lie? Sacrifice myself for a single kill?
1.) That wasn't being used as a point against you. I was talking about you, Fishball and Pandain as the remaining candidates who didn't have my vote. Nothing to do with bumatlarge.
2.) If you're Scum, get Mayor, lynch someone - how do you die? I don't know what roles are in the game and neither does anyone else. The name of the game is INSANE Mafia. Maybe you're scum with a role that can do something and look Pro-Town? I don't know and honestly, even if I did know the roles in the game that doesn't mean I'm going to take you at your word. There have been plenty of games where Scum says they promise to do something, like oh kill themselves and then WALLA! Something else happens, the Scum spin it to show that there is a better idea and the Scummy Martyr goes free. I'm not in the business on playing for promises.
I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
Would you prefer I simply roleclaim now?
That was impulsive of me. I'm not going to roleclaim for the possibility that you are mafia digging to find out what my role is. I'm not going to roleclaim until I am sure I am safe. Mafia can still bandwagon me out of the election and stack hits on me.
I can demonstrate my role is exactly what it is one I am able to use it. If this is not the case then feel free to lynch me.
I was actually thinking earlier the first thing teh mafia would do to discredit me is try to play off my role as though it were a mafia role designed to appear pro-town. It makes no sense considering the other aspect of the role is incredibly stifling to mafia goals.
On October 30 2010 09:24 kitaman27 wrote: Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the Mayor can be role checked, why would a mafia even want to be elected? I suppose there is the possibility of a Godfather or something, but even that role seems like it could be used in better ways.
Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
On October 30 2010 09:24 kitaman27 wrote: Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the Mayor can be role checked, why would a mafia even want to be elected? I suppose there is the possibility of a Godfather or something, but even that role seems like it could be used in better ways.
Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game.
So he would show up as something like "Mafia Mayor" ?
On October 30 2010 09:31 KtheZ wrote: I would say that godfather would wreak the most havoc as mayor; Thus, I'm probably going to hold off my vote for a bit till I read up on the posts. However, I'd like to ask DrH 1 question, sorry if it hasnt been answered How can we be 100% sure you are not scum if there is the possibility of having shapeshifters in this game? Then you can always claim that you "guessed" wrong if you lynch a townie, and DT checks would show up as town.
Because my role involves a confirmation to a separate player. To fake this I would have to out a different scumbuddy every single day, a play which would actually benefit the town in the long run if I were mafia.
Secondly my role has a second aspect which cannot be reliably faked as the results will be confirmed numerically by Artanis. That's really all I can say.
On October 30 2010 09:24 kitaman27 wrote: Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the Mayor can be role checked, why would a mafia even want to be elected? I suppose there is the possibility of a Godfather or something, but even that role seems like it could be used in better ways.
Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game.
So he would show up as something like "Mafia Mayor" ?
For example, Plague Doctor Mayor, or Mafia Detective Mayor, etc.
On October 30 2010 09:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Because my role involves a confirmation to a separate player. To fake this I would have to out a different scumbuddy every single day, a play which would actually benefit the town in the long run if I were mafia.
Secondly my role has a second aspect which cannot be reliably faked as the results will be confirmed numerically by Artanis. That's really all I can say.
Sounds like it has something to do with the plague then. Confirm/Deny/Abstain?
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
well none of those apply for me so why vote for pandain who offers nothing at all?
On October 30 2010 09:41 Fishball wrote: As for people bringing up the idea of having the circle come forward, I've put some thought into it.
If the circle remains hidden to the public, the Mafia can try to remain within and get as much intel as possible, while we'll be trying to do the same thing as well. If the circle comes public, the Mafia might as well off these members one by one. Keep in mind, there is a chance that there are no Mafia members in the circle (though very not likely), but regardless of this possibility, Mafia can plant confusion among the remaining members, and mislead the town.
Also, if the circle comes forward and god forbids, gets eliminated, it would defeat the entire purpose.
I'm not exactly against this idea, but I just want everyone else to think it through a bit more and provide more input, possibility a better alternative. At the end, this would not be my decision, but the other players'.
PS. A correction I have to make. I said I've came in contact with 4 other players earlier, this was a mistake. I've only came in contact with 3. The remaining 2 have not contacted me. This does not mean they haven't contacted each other, which I would not know.
As far as I see it if Mafia start killing off town aligned members of the circle, they incriminate themselves really in the end. This puts a lot of pressure on mafia as to how they choose their kills and they have to very carefully consider their activity within the circle.
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise.
DocH Anyone that doesn't fucking vote for you must be scum? Are you fucking serious ?
no because I never said that. that's a great way to start off by making me look really radical though.
i voted for Pandain because it was a choice between Him And Fishball at the time (bum withdrew his candidacy before i voted or I would have voted him for my placeholder instead of pandain) I posted many reasons why i chose pandain over fishball MANY Logical reasons. i will repost them for you ****This was before you had decided to run for mayor
This was the same reason I voted for Pandain, that's satisfying.
On October 30 2010 00:07 Coagulation wrote: How about instead of blowing up about imaginary references to your CIRCLE in my post you answer the question that you completely avoided.
why would we want to risk a chance of 7 people possibly being scum manipulating town with mayor when we can go with the much safer odds of only 1 person possibly being scum.
I'm at work. I answer what I can given the time that I have, but I have always come back and address the rest. This is not dodging. People who have played with me in previous games will know.
I think you meant 6 people, as I said there are only 6 people in this group. Now why would Mafia include 6 of their 9 buddies in this circle? Why 6? Not 3, not 4, but 6? Assume what you say is true, all 6 of us are Mafia, how exactly would we "manipulate" town? What stops the other solo Mayor and his "non-circle" buddies to manipulate town? Different scenario, but the outcome can very well be the same.
Everyone can debate about the "truth", but no one can argue about that fact that I did offer information, and I want/need protection. With me being Mayor, doesn't make me a dictator. I still need the help of the town to provide valuable input.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Is that not a reasonable reason considering the two choices?? maybe not the greatest reason but I FEEL CONFIDENT we are not getting FUCKED BEHIND OUR BACKS.
Well in retrospect and considering what fishball has now said, no I don't think it's reasonable. If he lies he has put himself in an extremely precarious position that could blow up in the mafias face too easily. In fact I think if he were mafia this play, most likely, will end up benefiting the town. whereas the potential payoff of fishball as a townie mayor vs pandain as a townie mayor are much higher. fishball also won't be as easily manipulated by poor mafia bandwagoning.
On October 30 2010 00:26 Coagulation wrote: We need someone who is good at mafia but terrible at manipulation.
pandain is probably the best candidate under these parameters. he is an extremely organized and tactical scum hunter his analyses skills are good and he has a good level head about what needs to be done.
i have also noticed that he is a terrible lier and his posting style makes his motives extremely transparent. this would make it much easier for us to spot a slip up if he is mafia. and greatly increases the chances that he would fail at getting away with scum moves if it turns out he is a red.
Is that not a reasonable reason?? YOU SAID THE SAME THING EARLIER.
Now i am sticking with pandain because he is most likely not a red trying to gain control of town based on the fact that he is not campaigning relentlessly.
yet he seems to be doing pretty well in the polls despite this. he's bringing little suspicion onto himself and staying out of the heat of the argument while attracting voters who are too afraid to take a real position. good scum play if anything.
Pandain is more then capable of using what tools he has at his disposal to help coordinate a good town strategy and i doubt he would run for mayor if he thought his role wasnt capable of contributing greatly as mayor.. and I FEEL HE is the most TRUSTWORTHY candidate so far BASED ON HIS ACTIONS IN THIS GAME. I Dont get the same feeling from you when your Threatening "FOS" On anyone that doesnt vote you..
I'm threatening FOS on people who come off as scummy, like you, or NB. You ignore the fact that I can prove I'm town if I'm elected, which Pandain cannot, so it is ridiculous that you would trust him over me. If I lie, I die, in this case. Don't forget that fact.
IM NOT VOTING on WHOS PROMISING SOME BULLSHIT IF THEY GET MAYOR (town circle?? where??) IM VOTING ON WHO I TRUST THE MOST IN MY GUT
IS THAT REASON ENOUGH?
No gut feelings are the opposite of reason so I can't say it's reason enough. I would also say please stop using caps lock and getting so emotionally invested in this.
On October 30 2010 09:24 kitaman27 wrote: Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the Mayor can be role checked, why would a mafia even want to be elected? I suppose there is the possibility of a Godfather or something, but even that role seems like it could be used in better ways.
Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_-
I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it.
Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you.
If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise.
read my last sentence
role != alignment
not even "standard roles" are 100%, due to the possibility of things like mafia medics or mafia detectives.
I am positive I can reliably prove my role is not a mafia aligned role since half the point of it is to stifle the mafia agenda. Why would mafia have a role designed to fuck over the mafia?
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise.
I can't fathom any way you can do this that doesn't involve the possibility of you just getting your mafia buddies to help you do whatever it is you say you can do
I dont like the idea of just picking someone for what they say they are able to be or capable of. I'm more inclined to go with someone who has shown they can actually be useful instead of spewing confirmability.
Whatever it is you say you can do to confirm yourself i have no doubt the host put in something to make it possible to compromise the integrity of your claim. It's silly that you could try to be concrete on something so unknown to anyone.
I would rather have someone leading with clearly good intentions and capable of doing something instead of saying well guys i can be confirmed, cause once someone gets elected the spot lights so heavy it's ridiculous anyway
My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts.
Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked.
Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen)
If I were mafia using mafia to fake my confirmation ability. This means I have to consistently out scumbuddies for the entirety of the game just to stay alive. And for what? Immunity to nightkills that won't happen since I'd be mafia in the first place?
Mafia benefit from being mayor isn't big enough in a normal game to do a play like this, much less in a game like this where the mayors power is severely reduced.
What am I offering beyond my role? Simply put the town can trust me. I've put myself in a do or die situation and I'm more than prepared to back up what I'm offering. I can offer immense coordination that is OPEN to the town. I won't jump on poor mafia bandwagons. I'm not running on the basis of being a mayor that will do whatever the town (i.e mafia) tells him to do. I'll try my best to cut through the bullshit and use my votes the right way.
On October 30 2010 09:24 kitaman27 wrote: Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the Mayor can be role checked, why would a mafia even want to be elected? I suppose there is the possibility of a Godfather or something, but even that role seems like it could be used in better ways.
Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_-
I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it.
Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you.
If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
I can't trust someone who's so "free" with his supposed" facts."
You're bad
He said that after I posted and asked him to confirm it. Why would I "lie" and then ask the mod to confirm my lie as being false immediately afterward. I even went as far as to qualify what I was saying.
I remembered wrong. Good thing I had the good sense to ask artanis to confirm it and qualify my statement before I tried to pass it off as a fact huh?
On October 30 2010 09:41 Fishball wrote: As for people bringing up the idea of having the circle come forward, I've put some thought into it.
If the circle remains hidden to the public, the Mafia can try to remain within and get as much intel as possible, while we'll be trying to do the same thing as well. If the circle comes public, the Mafia might as well off these members one by one. Keep in mind, there is a chance that there are no Mafia members in the circle (though very not likely), but regardless of this possibility, Mafia can plant confusion among the remaining members, and mislead the town.
Also, if the circle comes forward and god forbids, gets eliminated, it would defeat the entire purpose.
I'm not exactly against this idea, but I just want everyone else to think it through a bit more and provide more input, possibility a better alternative. At the end, this would not be my decision, but the other players'.
PS. A correction I have to make. I said I've came in contact with 4 other players earlier, this was a mistake. I've only came in contact with 3. The remaining 2 have not contacted me. This does not mean they haven't contacted each other, which I would not know.
As far as I see it if Mafia start killing off town aligned members of the circle, they incriminate themselves really in the end. This puts a lot of pressure on mafia as to how they choose their kills and they have to very carefully consider their activity within the circle.
Let's assume one of the likely scenarios. There are 6 of us, 1 of them is red. Mafia starts killing a couple, 4 remaining, 1 of them is red. At this point, it cannot be helped that town will divert some of it's attention here and try to hunt for that 1 red. If down decides to lynch one of the most "suspicious" one and get lucky enough, they'll lynch the red, but if not, Mafia just got a free kill and the situation drags on. At the very end Mafia will only 1 member, but eliminates the circle entirely as well as any coordination within, as well as causing chaos, confusion, and waste town lynches if used. If town does not use their lynches at all, the Mafia call still eliminate the circle at a different pace.
Incoming WIFOM;
Mafia may also want to keep the circle alive for the purposes of manipulation. a shrinking circle is harder to manipulate in a lot of ways (easier in some). The bigger they can get their false bandwagons the better.
On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote: I'm voting for Bumatlarge. Honestly I'm not very impressed by how any of the other candidates have been conducting themselves.
Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him. I know he hasn't posted in like 30 minutes (ie. 45 pages omfg), but we shouldn't forget about his candidacy and bandwagon onto Doc.H, and certainly not Pandain.
On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote: Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him.
Experience I don't deny, but seriously? At least quote something you think that is "honest" and "helpful". How do you know the other candidates are not "honest? are not "helpful"?
Some of these posts from certain players, regarding why or why not they vote for certain players are just mind boggling. infinitestory caught another one below.
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
Your logic for electing Pandain is pretty flimsy. We want a mayor who: 1) Is a good analyzer and an experienced town player 2) Can be scrutinized or somehow confirmed as a townie. 3) Has a role that requires protection Now, ideally we get a mayor who is strongly all three (and ends up being townie under scrutiny). DrH, according to his posts, satisfies 2 and 3, especially 2, and I feel like he can carry out 1 as well. Fishball claims to satisfy 3, but his circle hasn't materialized, which makes me suspect him. Last in my book is Pandain, who claims SOFTLY to satisfy all 3. Emphasis on softly, because he only said he had a "valuable blue role" and could give "indirect confirmation." No real plan for action, unlike the other two candidates, as far as I saw. On top of that, you claim that DrH's bandwagon is suspect, but Pandain had an even larger bandwagon before DrH... why does that not trigger your red flag? It feels almost like you're fabricating reasons to put Pandain first and everyone else last. Odd, to say the least. I want to hear a bit more explanation on these points, NB.
When reading through the past 10-20 pages, there are quite a few posts like these out there. I suggest any decent minded town aligned players to pay attention to these people.
to clarify you are calling out infinitestories post as a good one amongst what is largely noise yes?
On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote: I'm voting for Bumatlarge. Honestly I'm not very impressed by how any of the other candidates have been conducting themselves.
Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him. I know he hasn't posted in like 30 minutes (ie. 45 pages omfg), but we shouldn't forget about his candidacy and bandwagon onto Doc.H, and certainly not Pandain.
Again, Bum has my vote.
You can vote for anybody for all I care,
But
On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote: Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him.
Experience I don't deny, but seriously? At least quote something you think that is "honest" and "helpful". How do you know the other candidates are not "honest? are not "helpful"?
Some of these posts from certain players, regarding why or why not they vote for certain players are just mind boggling. infinitestory caught another one below.
On October 30 2010 09:28 infinitestory wrote:
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
Your logic for electing Pandain is pretty flimsy. We want a mayor who: 1) Is a good analyzer and an experienced town player 2) Can be scrutinized or somehow confirmed as a townie. 3) Has a role that requires protection Now, ideally we get a mayor who is strongly all three (and ends up being townie under scrutiny). DrH, according to his posts, satisfies 2 and 3, especially 2, and I feel like he can carry out 1 as well. Fishball claims to satisfy 3, but his circle hasn't materialized, which makes me suspect him. Last in my book is Pandain, who claims SOFTLY to satisfy all 3. Emphasis on softly, because he only said he had a "valuable blue role" and could give "indirect confirmation." No real plan for action, unlike the other two candidates, as far as I saw. On top of that, you claim that DrH's bandwagon is suspect, but Pandain had an even larger bandwagon before DrH... why does that not trigger your red flag? It feels almost like you're fabricating reasons to put Pandain first and everyone else last. Odd, to say the least. I want to hear a bit more explanation on these points, NB.
When reading through the past 10-20 pages, there are quite a few posts like these out there. I suggest any decent minded town aligned players to pay attention to these people.
to clarify you are calling out infinitestories post as a good one amongst what is largely noise yes?
if you're saying it's a bad post then -_-
I said: infinitestory caught another one below
Keyword highlighted. Of course I'm saying his post is a good one.
On October 30 2010 10:15 Pandain wrote: sorry still reading but just to adress one vital concern.
I am very proactive. I will help the town, i've already decided what we should do if I'm elected so I might as well share it.
As of now, we need medics protecting several of the valuable blues that claimed to run. Sure, one may be a mafia but most likely the rest will be vital blues. So I think they should RNG between Dr. H, Fishball, and possibly Bum. And If i lose, then take out the winner and add me.
Right now I don't have any active thoughts because really its day 1. Anyone who says they really know whats going on is either mafia or wrong. Sure, you can get lucky every once in a while but unless someone truly scum slips it's going to be mostly a guessing game.
If you've seen any of my games, you'd know I'm very decisive. Anyway, still reading.
top medic targets should be: ace bumatlarge fishball
On October 30 2010 10:15 Pandain wrote: sorry still reading but just to adress one vital concern.
I am very proactive. I will help the town, i've already decided what we should do if I'm elected so I might as well share it.
As of now, we need medics protecting several of the valuable blues that claimed to run. Sure, one may be a mafia but most likely the rest will be vital blues. So I think they should RNG between Dr. H, Fishball, and possibly Bum. And If i lose, then take out the winner and add me.
Right now I don't have any active thoughts because really its day 1. Anyone who says they really know whats going on is either mafia or wrong. Sure, you can get lucky every once in a while but unless someone truly scum slips it's going to be mostly a guessing game.
If you've seen any of my games, you'd know I'm very decisive. Anyway, still reading.
there has been a huge amount of activity today. there is actually plenty to analyse today.
On October 30 2010 10:30 ghrur wrote: Okay, clearly I'm not getting any votes here... which sucks, but here are my opinions on votes for mayor:
Pandain: I don't know how good a scumhunter he is, but he IS transparent. However, ever since fishball's claim of there being another circle at ALL, we must be wary of that too. I do, however, believe that a transparent mayor is good, and like me, Pandain seems to be quite transparent. (HINT, VOTE FOR ME CUZ I'M FUCKING TRANSPARENT)
afaik not a very good one.
Fishball: do NOT vote for this guy. A. No one else has claimed mason. B. We don't know what role he is for sure. C. PMs in the hands of a mason in the mafia could get so incredibly powerful because mafia would be able to secretly convince others and start a 14 player bandwagon. >_< D. He's experienced as hell. If he's Mafia, then GF, then a Mason, we're fucked. We won't be able to oust him because of GF, he'll have influence over Masons, he'll be able to control his mafia group with expertise, and vigis wouldn't be able to kill him if they expected him. Also, Mayor having PMs is not good because we want a mayor to be TRANSPARENT. He needs to be placed under HEAVY scrutiny. If he's pming all over the place, what do we use to analyze him?
I agree with this actually. I feel that medics should protect Fishball instead.
Bumatlarge: Experienced, which can be a double edged sword if he's red, and he can start his OWN circle. That might be even more scary than fishball, but nonetheless it provides the same problem towards transparency. We need them to show us their posts, but if they're pming, we get much less information, and as a mafia mayor, that's great for them.
Dr. H: I don't really know. He seems scummy for his huge support of Fishball who I don't trust, but he says he can somehow prove to us that he's blue. The thing I don't like about Fishball and Dr. H's campaign methods is the fact that they HEAVILY emphasize the roles they play. I don't see how their roles could be so important that they NEED the mayor role. I see Dr. H's role as more important for use inside the Masons. I believe the Masons should definitely get him in the first night IF THEY EXIST, but right now, I don't believe he should be mayor.
Well, my role is the most important thing but I've given other reasons as well. I can't really use my role without roleclaiming, so I'm not really sure what else I should have done.
I don't need the mayor role to use my role, I need it to maximize the effectiveness of my town coordination.
Also, I don't really think I'm hugely supporting Fishball. I'm wary of him but he doesn't come off as scummy to me. I think if he is mafia he is making a pretty huge gamble and I'm interested in seeing how it plays out right now. I don't think he should be mayor for basically the reasons you stated.
I think the safest way to vote is Pandain right now. He seems to be transparent, and hasn't given off any notion that he can PM yet. This is good. We DON'T want a secretive mayor. We want a secretive detective, or a secretive TOWN circle, but not a secretive mayor. Btw, I also agree with Ace that Dr. H gave out too much info on himself. >_<
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
I can't PM people, your 3rd point is complete bullshit. Just thought I'd point out that the difference between me and fishball is that my coordination will take place out in the open of the thread with complete transparency in every way. I am not part of a circle.
Before you said you could maybe indirectly prove you're legit if you're elected. Now you can prove it 100% reliably? Which is it?
My whole campaign is about an open discussion and coordination. I'm not acting behind doors but at the same time I'm not vote on whatever the public tells me, mafia control bandwagons and going with the majority every time is poor mayor play.
Do you plan on doing the same? Do you have the balls to say the town is wrong on a lynch when it's your head on the chopping block?
On October 30 2010 10:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I need to backtrace and find out who invented the lie that I said anything about secret town circles, operating in pm's, or anything like that.
Not trying to FoS Pandain here but that sounds very mafia implanted to me.
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
well none of those apply for me so why vote for pandain who offers nothing at all?
I'm guessing by other two prime candidates he means me and fishball in which case he is lying, because I never brought up secret societies except in relation to fishballs role. So his Second point here is incorrect.
Now this misinformation is being parroted by Pandain.
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
I can't PM people, your 3rd point is complete bullshit. Just thought I'd point out that the difference between me and fishball is that my coordination will take place out in the open of the thread with complete transparency in every way. I am not part of a circle.
Before you said you could maybe indirectly prove you're legit if you're elected. Now you can prove it 100% reliably? Which is it?
My whole campaign is about an open discussion and coordination. I'm not acting behind doors but at the same time I'm not vote on whatever the public tells me, mafia control bandwagons and going with the majority every time is poor mayor play.
Do you plan on doing the same? Do you have the balls to say the town is wrong on a lynch when it's your head on the chopping block?
What you asked all masons to contact you, not only would that lead to some masons unable to pm other people, but does rely on secret circles. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but really it seems to me relying more on open debate is better, no? Only real purpose pms would be for is if finding out results from other blues.
Well, it doesn't neccesarily mean I'm innocent, but if I'm wrong(very likely chance I would be if a fake), then you guys can lynch me ASAP.
And yes, obviously I'm not just a mascot for the town, I'm a leader as well. When I have an opinion, I will back it up in debate. I will share my opinion, and if other people bring up good points I will back down if I feel they have a good defense.
Okay there are a lot of things wrong with this role.
1. Fishballs circle is not one afaik that can convert. 2. Bumatlarge seems to have the power to give people the power to PM. it is possible he is in fishballs circle and this is his role related to the circle or that over the course of the game he can make a circle of his own. 3. My coordination of the town roles will be done in the open, as that is the best way for my role to do it as I can not reliably rely on becoming part of the town circle.
Are you saying that the person who is elected mayor should not be converted into the town circle if such a thing exists? PMs would be useful later in the game for establishing contact with blue roles like DT who may not feel comfortable roleclaiming in public and the ideal voice for them is the mayor, who is immune to night kills.
I do not feel comfortable with the idea of the mayor operating entirely in the circle, however I am comfortable with the idea of mayor becoming part of the circle early or later on in the game. Does that make sense? The only way I can reliably coordinate is in the open, which is best for the town. Conversely the town could also benefit from having me in the circle as well but this is far from "operating solely in secret" as you would like to imply.
On October 30 2010 10:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I need to backtrace and find out who invented the lie that I said anything about secret town circles, operating in pm's, or anything like that.
Not trying to FoS Pandain here but that sounds very mafia implanted to me.
On October 30 2010 09:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
well none of those apply for me so why vote for pandain who offers nothing at all?
I'm guessing by other two prime candidates he means me and fishball in which case he is lying, because I never brought up secret societies except in relation to fishballs role. So his Second point here is incorrect.
Now this misinformation is being parroted by Pandain.
And its this kind of over reaction that we do not need from a mayor. Personally, if you've never played as town I don't know how good you will be if you are one. However, if you are mafia, then I know just how super amazingly funktastic you can be. So either way I don't like it.
So it's an over reaction to point out that a player is saying something is false? OK
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
I can't PM people, your 3rd point is complete bullshit. Just thought I'd point out that the difference between me and fishball is that my coordination will take place out in the open of the thread with complete transparency in every way. I am not part of a circle.
Before you said you could maybe indirectly prove you're legit if you're elected. Now you can prove it 100% reliably? Which is it?
My whole campaign is about an open discussion and coordination. I'm not acting behind doors but at the same time I'm not vote on whatever the public tells me, mafia control bandwagons and going with the majority every time is poor mayor play.
Do you plan on doing the same? Do you have the balls to say the town is wrong on a lynch when it's your head on the chopping block?
What you asked all masons to contact you, not only would that lead to some masons unable to pm other people, but does rely on secret circles. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but really it seems to me relying more on open debate is better, no? Only real purpose pms would be for is if finding out results from other blues.
Well, it doesn't neccesarily mean I'm innocent, but if I'm wrong(very likely chance I would be if a fake), then you guys can lynch me ASAP.
And yes, obviously I'm not just a mascot for the town, I'm a leader as well. When I have an opinion, I will back it up in debate. I will share my opinion, and if other people bring up good points I will back down if I feel they have a good defense.
Okay there are a lot of things wrong with this role.
1. Fishballs circle is not one afaik that can convert. 2. Bumatlarge seems to have the power to give people the power to PM. it is possible he is in fishballs circle and this is his role related to the circle or that over the course of the game he can make a circle of his own. 3. My coordination of the town roles will be done in the open, as that is the best way for my role to do it as I can not reliably rely on becoming part of the town circle.
Are you saying that the person who is elected mayor should not be converted into the town circle if such a thing exists? PMs would be useful later in the game for establishing contact with blue roles like DT who may not feel comfortable roleclaiming in public and the ideal voice for them is the mayor, who is immune to night kills.
I do not feel comfortable with the idea of the mayor operating entirely in the circle, however I am comfortable with the idea of mayor becoming part of the circle early or later on in the game. Does that make sense? The only way I can reliably coordinate is in the open, which is best for the town. Conversely the town could also benefit from having me in the circle as well but this is far from "operating solely in secret" as you would like to imply.
I think we're being antagnostic just because of the election. I can tell we actually have the same view. I do feel pms can be useful, especially once dt's start checking everyone, but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers". Unless of course they have a dt. But I think we actually both agree on that. I never implied you were operating soley in secret. I never was talking about Fishball, was talking about masons. I never said the person should not be turned into the town circle.
I agree. I know you never said the person should not be turned into the circle, that's why I asked you the question, Pandain. Because I wanted to know your stance. Why so defensive there?
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
What I highlighted is the bullshit part where you are implying I will do exactly that. Do you retract that statement? It seems pretty obvious what it is implying. Or did you somehow mean the opposite of what you said?
On October 30 2010 10:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I need to backtrace and find out who invented the lie that I said anything about secret town circles, operating in pm's, or anything like that.
Not trying to FoS Pandain here but that sounds very mafia implanted to me.
On October 30 2010 09:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
well none of those apply for me so why vote for pandain who offers nothing at all?
I'm guessing by other two prime candidates he means me and fishball in which case he is lying, because I never brought up secret societies except in relation to fishballs role. So his Second point here is incorrect.
Now this misinformation is being parroted by Pandain.
And its this kind of over reaction that we do not need from a mayor. Personally, if you've never played as town I don't know how good you will be if you are one. However, if you are mafia, then I know just how super amazingly funktastic you can be. So either way I don't like it.
So it's an over reaction to point out that a player is saying something is false? OK
Its an overreaction if you haven't read it clearly enough to understand it.
You could correct me instead of saying something so vague. He is saying he is voting for you instead of the other two prime candidates which I take to refer to myself and fishball. If that is indeed the case, my point still stands.
On October 30 2010 10:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I need to backtrace and find out who invented the lie that I said anything about secret town circles, operating in pm's, or anything like that.
Not trying to FoS Pandain here but that sounds very mafia implanted to me.
On October 30 2010 09:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
well none of those apply for me so why vote for pandain who offers nothing at all?
I'm guessing by other two prime candidates he means me and fishball in which case he is lying, because I never brought up secret societies except in relation to fishballs role. So his Second point here is incorrect.
Now this misinformation is being parroted by Pandain.
And its this kind of over reaction that we do not need from a mayor. Personally, if you've never played as town I don't know how good you will be if you are one. However, if you are mafia, then I know just how super amazingly funktastic you can be. So either way I don't like it.
So it's an over reaction to point out that a player is saying something is false? OK
Its an overreaction if you haven't read it clearly enough to understand it.
Heck, even the so called "bandwagon" is an overreaction. What, like 5 people voted for me? Including myself? There are 45 people in this game, and people can change their votes obviously that early in the game. Again, be wary and form your own opinions. That is the basis of a good town.
It just came across as strange to a lot of people that you shot up so well in the polls despite saying/offering the least of all viable candidates at the time. I think that's a point you can understand.
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
I can't PM people, your 3rd point is complete bullshit. Just thought I'd point out that the difference between me and fishball is that my coordination will take place out in the open of the thread with complete transparency in every way. I am not part of a circle.
Before you said you could maybe indirectly prove you're legit if you're elected. Now you can prove it 100% reliably? Which is it?
My whole campaign is about an open discussion and coordination. I'm not acting behind doors but at the same time I'm not vote on whatever the public tells me, mafia control bandwagons and going with the majority every time is poor mayor play.
Do you plan on doing the same? Do you have the balls to say the town is wrong on a lynch when it's your head on the chopping block?
What you asked all masons to contact you, not only would that lead to some masons unable to pm other people, but does rely on secret circles. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but really it seems to me relying more on open debate is better, no? Only real purpose pms would be for is if finding out results from other blues.
Well, it doesn't neccesarily mean I'm innocent, but if I'm wrong(very likely chance I would be if a fake), then you guys can lynch me ASAP.
And yes, obviously I'm not just a mascot for the town, I'm a leader as well. When I have an opinion, I will back it up in debate. I will share my opinion, and if other people bring up good points I will back down if I feel they have a good defense.
Okay there are a lot of things wrong with this role.
1. Fishballs circle is not one afaik that can convert. 2. Bumatlarge seems to have the power to give people the power to PM. it is possible he is in fishballs circle and this is his role related to the circle or that over the course of the game he can make a circle of his own. 3. My coordination of the town roles will be done in the open, as that is the best way for my role to do it as I can not reliably rely on becoming part of the town circle.
Are you saying that the person who is elected mayor should not be converted into the town circle if such a thing exists? PMs would be useful later in the game for establishing contact with blue roles like DT who may not feel comfortable roleclaiming in public and the ideal voice for them is the mayor, who is immune to night kills.
I do not feel comfortable with the idea of the mayor operating entirely in the circle, however I am comfortable with the idea of mayor becoming part of the circle early or later on in the game. Does that make sense? The only way I can reliably coordinate is in the open, which is best for the town. Conversely the town could also benefit from having me in the circle as well but this is far from "operating solely in secret" as you would like to imply.
I think we're being antagnostic just because of the election. I can tell we actually have the same view. I do feel pms can be useful, especially once dt's start checking everyone, but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers". Unless of course they have a dt. But I think we actually both agree on that. I never implied you were operating soley in secret. I never was talking about Fishball, was talking about masons. I never said the person should not be turned into the town circle.
I agree. I know you never said the person should not be turned into the circle, that's why I asked you the question, Pandain. Because I wanted to know your stance. Why so defensive there?
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
What I highlighted is the bullshit part where you are implying I will do exactly that. Do you retract that statement? It seems pretty obvious what it is implying. Or did you somehow mean the opposite of what you said?
Again, you are pulling a rabbit out of a hat when there simply was no rabbit to begin with. I never said you were SOLEY operating in secret, I was under the impression you would rely upon masons and pms with them. Obviously I have stated we are apparently under the same stance.
Besides that, and even still we disagree a little, I do not retract my statement. Do you?
And what question? I'll happily answer any question.
You did not say I was solely operating in secret. But I still don't like the fact that you tried to lump me in with Fishball in the "secret society non transperancy" boat when I never said/did anything to put myself in that boat in the first place. I've said several times throughout the thread that I would do my coordination in the open, maybe you skimmed over what I said? If you don't even know my platform, don't call me out on non existent problems with it please.
So, no I don't retract my statement.
The question I asked you was "do you think it is a bad idea for mayor to be converted into the circle" you then answered it by playing it off as though I had accused you of saying it was a bad idea, when I did no such thing.
So even though there is no basis for the idea that I will operate in secret and be non-transparent, you refuse to retract the statement that I will operate in secret and be non-transparent. Interesting pandain, very interesting.
On October 30 2010 10:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I need to backtrace and find out who invented the lie that I said anything about secret town circles, operating in pm's, or anything like that.
Not trying to FoS Pandain here but that sounds very mafia implanted to me.
On October 30 2010 09:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
well none of those apply for me so why vote for pandain who offers nothing at all?
I'm guessing by other two prime candidates he means me and fishball in which case he is lying, because I never brought up secret societies except in relation to fishballs role. So his Second point here is incorrect.
Now this misinformation is being parroted by Pandain.
And its this kind of over reaction that we do not need from a mayor. Personally, if you've never played as town I don't know how good you will be if you are one. However, if you are mafia, then I know just how super amazingly funktastic you can be. So either way I don't like it.
So it's an over reaction to point out that a player is saying something is false? OK
Its an overreaction if you haven't read it clearly enough to understand it.
You could correct me instead of saying something so vague. He is saying he is voting for you instead of the other two prime candidates which I take to refer to myself and fishball. If that is indeed the case, my point still stands.
I'm not talking about that, sorry if I was unclear. I'm reffering to the fact you seemed to place a special emphasis on masons, but again, I think we're really of the same opinion here.
As for the supposed bandwagon....I feel they gave sufficient reasons to warrant an early vote(and its a changeable vote). Afraid of fishball's circle having mafia, saying I'm apparently very transparent, and so forth.
On October 30 2010 11:09 orgolove wrote: It's kinda amazing that Fishball, the only player to reveal any real information, is being brushed off as "secret society non transparency."
I think if one were to really want to hide information, he probably wouldn't have revealed the presence of a circle either.
Pandains campaign seems to be a little bit more about what is wrong with other candidates than what is right about him, which is something I don't like.
Now I'm becoming a little bit suspicious of a mafia attempt to discredit the idea of the circle in and of itself.
As far as Fishball himself, I don't feel hugely uncomfortable with him in a mayoral position. I think the fact that I can immediately confirm myself as town aligned and immediately coordinate blues without the possibility of manipulation in that department makes me a better candidate, but that can be debated on its own terms.
Being able to work in a circle is very useful, but open coordination is far more difficult for mafia to manipulate. Consider this as well. Even if only 1 mafia is in the group, all the mafia are involved in what is being said and disseminated throughout the group as that 1 mafia will surely be giving all town circle information to the entire mafia.
So it's a circle of communication between what is likely predominantly town players and 1 or 2 mafia but it is a circle of information that includes the entire mafia. That can really be abused to manipulate the towns trust in the mayor.
On October 30 2010 10:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: shit i forgot to add this part to my above post
On October 30 2010 10:51 Pandain wrote:
On October 30 2010 10:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 10:44 Pandain wrote:
On October 30 2010 10:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 10:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I need to backtrace and find out who invented the lie that I said anything about secret town circles, operating in pm's, or anything like that.
Not trying to FoS Pandain here but that sounds very mafia implanted to me.
On October 30 2010 09:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
well none of those apply for me so why vote for pandain who offers nothing at all?
I'm guessing by other two prime candidates he means me and fishball in which case he is lying, because I never brought up secret societies except in relation to fishballs role. So his Second point here is incorrect.
Now this misinformation is being parroted by Pandain.
And its this kind of over reaction that we do not need from a mayor. Personally, if you've never played as town I don't know how good you will be if you are one. However, if you are mafia, then I know just how super amazingly funktastic you can be. So either way I don't like it.
So it's an over reaction to point out that a player is saying something is false? OK
Its an overreaction if you haven't read it clearly enough to understand it.
You could correct me instead of saying something so vague. He is saying he is voting for you instead of the other two prime candidates which I take to refer to myself and fishball. If that is indeed the case, my point still stands.
I'm not talking about that, sorry if I was unclear. I'm reffering to the fact you seemed to place a special emphasis on masons, but again, I think we're really of the same opinion here.
As for the supposed bandwagon....I feel they gave sufficient reasons to warrant an early vote(and its a changeable vote). Afraid of fishball's circle having mafia, saying I'm apparently very transparent, and so forth.
On October 30 2010 10:50 Pandain wrote: but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers".
I know it's not directed at me, but I'm just quoting your post since you're the latest one to say something similar.
Seems like a lot of people are getting this impression of the circle, which I've explained quite a few times, that's not exactly what I will make it to be. With DT checks viable to the Mayor, I even offered to kill myself and release as much information to the public to prove it. (Seeing that many other information have sunk into the vast ocean of posts, this is not surprising)
It's also quite amusing, most of the people that argue against the "crazy secrecy of the circle", or just me in general "not being transparent" etc., never brings up these posts I've said.
Keep in mind I was the first one to come up with such a claim. Fake or not, that's not the point and is for another debate, but I AM being transparent here.
Here's the thing, I don't see why you have to be mayor for this circle if you have medic protection. I've already said I think the circle is a very good thing to have and we should use it to our advantage, but focusing around that will be very hard since there's a chance there might not be any mafia at all! What, are we going to check all 6 people? That's going to take way too long. I'm just confused about how you would go about that, if you could clarify.
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
I can't PM people, your 3rd point is complete bullshit. Just thought I'd point out that the difference between me and fishball is that my coordination will take place out in the open of the thread with complete transparency in every way. I am not part of a circle.
Before you said you could maybe indirectly prove you're legit if you're elected. Now you can prove it 100% reliably? Which is it?
My whole campaign is about an open discussion and coordination. I'm not acting behind doors but at the same time I'm not vote on whatever the public tells me, mafia control bandwagons and going with the majority every time is poor mayor play.
Do you plan on doing the same? Do you have the balls to say the town is wrong on a lynch when it's your head on the chopping block?
What you asked all masons to contact you, not only would that lead to some masons unable to pm other people, but does rely on secret circles. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but really it seems to me relying more on open debate is better, no? Only real purpose pms would be for is if finding out results from other blues.
Well, it doesn't neccesarily mean I'm innocent, but if I'm wrong(very likely chance I would be if a fake), then you guys can lynch me ASAP.
And yes, obviously I'm not just a mascot for the town, I'm a leader as well. When I have an opinion, I will back it up in debate. I will share my opinion, and if other people bring up good points I will back down if I feel they have a good defense.
Okay there are a lot of things wrong with this role.
1. Fishballs circle is not one afaik that can convert. 2. Bumatlarge seems to have the power to give people the power to PM. it is possible he is in fishballs circle and this is his role related to the circle or that over the course of the game he can make a circle of his own. 3. My coordination of the town roles will be done in the open, as that is the best way for my role to do it as I can not reliably rely on becoming part of the town circle.
Are you saying that the person who is elected mayor should not be converted into the town circle if such a thing exists? PMs would be useful later in the game for establishing contact with blue roles like DT who may not feel comfortable roleclaiming in public and the ideal voice for them is the mayor, who is immune to night kills.
I do not feel comfortable with the idea of the mayor operating entirely in the circle, however I am comfortable with the idea of mayor becoming part of the circle early or later on in the game. Does that make sense? The only way I can reliably coordinate is in the open, which is best for the town. Conversely the town could also benefit from having me in the circle as well but this is far from "operating solely in secret" as you would like to imply.
I think we're being antagnostic just because of the election. I can tell we actually have the same view. I do feel pms can be useful, especially once dt's start checking everyone, but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers". Unless of course they have a dt. But I think we actually both agree on that. I never implied you were operating soley in secret. I never was talking about Fishball, was talking about masons. I never said the person should not be turned into the town circle.
I agree. I know you never said the person should not be turned into the circle, that's why I asked you the question, Pandain. Because I wanted to know your stance. Why so defensive there?
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
On October 30 2010 10:33 Pandain wrote: *sigh* Pandain: 1. I can prove I'm legit if elected. 2.I'm apparently very transparent 3.Relies on open discussion and debate. Dr. H: 1.Can prove he's legit if elected 2.Is not transparent, is a master mafioso and a mayer Dr. H I would fear above all 3. Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated. Same problem goes with Fishball, they would spend days trying to find mafia which might not even exist.
DTS should check mayoral canidates, most likely to find a mafia(at least one mafia must've run, else they're just handing us the game on a platter.)
Since so many people claimed valuable roles while running for election, those people must be at the top of the priority list for medic protection. And as of now, Fishball's "circle" hasn't said anything, so I'm beginning to become highly suscipcious of Fishball.
Again, if you are in Fishball's circle, say so now. You don't have to say your role or anything, just say if you are. If no one does, I am going to lynch Fishball day 1.
What I highlighted is the bullshit part where you are implying I will do exactly that. Do you retract that statement? It seems pretty obvious what it is implying. Or did you somehow mean the opposite of what you said?
Again, you are pulling a rabbit out of a hat when there simply was no rabbit to begin with. I never said you were SOLEY operating in secret, I was under the impression you would rely upon masons and pms with them. Obviously I have stated we are apparently under the same stance.
Besides that, and even still we disagree a little, I do not retract my statement. Do you?
And what question? I'll happily answer any question.
You did not say I was solely operating in secret. But I still don't like the fact that you tried to lump me in with Fishball in the "secret society non transperancy" boat when I never said/did anything to put myself in that boat in the first place. I've said several times throughout the thread that I would do my coordination in the open, maybe you skimmed over what I said? If you don't even know my platform, don't call me out on non existent problems with it please.
So, no I don't retract my statement.
The question I asked you was "do you think it is a bad idea for mayor to be converted into the circle" you then answered it by playing it off as though I had accused you of saying it was a bad idea, when I did no such thing.
So even though there is no basis for the idea that I will operate in secret and be non-transparent, you refuse to retract the statement that I will operate in secret and be non-transparent. Interesting pandain, very interesting.
Besides that, and even still we disagree a little, I do not retract my statement.
I have in that one regard. And let's see what I said "Relies on secret pm circles which can easily be infiltrated". Not "IS GOING TO BE GOING OFF OF ONLY SECRET CIRLCES" but that you seem to place an emphasis on that. Do you doubt that a pm circle which grows each night has a growing chance each night of mafia inflitration? Then what use is the circle at all! I noted you and fishball have a similar problem, but the problem/situation itself is different.
If you look, I have answered pretty much every single thing you keep asking. I've already said mayors should obviously be involved in town circles, I'm saying we should not RELY on them. Ver backs me up on this too, go read his town guide.
The more you keep trying to pick at straws the more scummy you seem to me, if not others. If you are townie, be careful if you continue to attempt to continue attacking me, it will hurt your campaign.
I'm not picking at straws here. Saying I rely on secret circles is a pretty bold statement and it's one that has fallen apart but you refuse to retract. You also refuse to retract the statement that I'm not transparent.
My plan has nothing to do with circles and it never did. My plan is about using my role to coordinate in the open. I never placed an emphasis on it and I only made a single offhand comment that it may be beneficial to recruit me into said circle.
You also just said it could be very useful for the mayor to be in such a circle and now you say "what use is the circle at all!"
My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts.
Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked.
Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen)
So whats the name of your role, i'm curious
Does it matter?
It seems strange that you would want to know. I guess it would do no harm to tell, it wouldn't reveal the exact nature of my powers, which I won't go into extreme detail on just yet.
I'm not sure I should say. Maybe there is a role that knows all the roles in the game? And you're trying to confirm I am who I say I am?
Maybe this is some kinda weird mafia fishing attempt?
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
I want DTS checking Dr. H, at the very least if he's mafia it will force them to elect him godfather(which would probably be the best move anyway)
Good job pointing out nothing again Pandain.
I am saying you implied I was operating solely in secret. I quoted bolded and red'd the part where you implied that (to my interpretation). I never ever once said you literally used the same words. This is bad wordplay and it does nothing but discredit me for no reason
It seems like you are trying to say "the circle is a good thing and should be taken advantage of" and "the circle is a bad thing and should be feared" at the same time. Your rhetoric throughout the game seems to me to be emphasizing the latter.
On October 30 2010 11:28 Coagulation wrote: dr h and pandain it would be nice if you guys could talk about something relevent to the town and disregard this little pissing contest you guys have going on right now.
it would be nice if you could do a single thing in this game besides insult other players and get really mad for no reason
My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts.
Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked.
Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen)
So whats the name of your role, i'm curious
Does it matter?
It seems strange that you would want to know. I guess it would do no harm to tell, it wouldn't reveal the exact nature of my powers, which I won't go into extreme detail on just yet.
I'm not sure I should say. Maybe there is a role that knows all the roles in the game? And you're trying to confirm I am who I say I am?
Maybe this is some kinda weird mafia fishing attempt?
I'll think about it.
Sounds more like you just made shit up and can't think of a name that fits the description you gave.
Oh, I see.
The name of the role is Sticky. You can see earlier that I used the word sticky to try to see if Node had the same role as me.
As far as making it up, that would be the worst mafia play in the history of mafia. Again like I said (this is the millionth time now)
In order to fake this role I have to out a scumbuddy every single day, who has to lie, putting pressure on an increasing amount of mafia. I would also have to fake the second part of my role, which would be impossible to do since the results are objective and not able to be manipulated.
I can understand why people maybe don't want me to be mayor over fishball but trying to paint me as scum is ludicrous.
Let's say I am mafia.
I am faking a role in which I confirm my role to another player each night. To fake this I must get another mafia to pretend that I did this each day, who would probably be DT checked immediately throwing me under suspicion.
I don't want to say exactly how my second ability works but I can reliably show my powers in helping to stop the spread of the plague. Faking this would be much quicker. It would be incredibly easy to catch me in this lie and since the results of my actions are reflected in the murrayitis numbers and the success of plague doctors, it isn't really something I can pull off.
I am offering myself for lynch if the information I'm giving is found to be unreliable. So as mafia here, I'm sacrificing myself. my scumbuddies, and making claims that I cannot fulfill.
An utterly retarded thing to do. Not to mention the fact that being mayor barely benefits mafia in this case. The only real benefit is immunity to vig hits and the second vote.
In a normal mafia game, the mayor has 3 extra votes, complete immunity from night actions. A DT can check the mayor for godssake.
So for me to pull this off all of the following are true: I am mafia I am godfather I can get the mafia to pretend I am confirming to them without ever being caught I can fake a role that involves stopping the spread of murrayitis which isn't a possibility.
Consider all of that for the benefit a mafia player would be going for: extra vote immunity to vigs
and also weight the con a mafia has from being mayor: guaranteed DT visit immense pressure/scrutiny from town
it really is nonsensical, added to the fact that I can prove my role is what I say it is after the night, there is really nothing here to paint me as scum. If it's made up bullshit, and thats what you believe, then I'm handing you my life and the lives of my scumbuddies on a plate.
My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts.
Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked.
Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen)
So whats the name of your role, i'm curious
Does it matter?
It seems strange that you would want to know. I guess it would do no harm to tell, it wouldn't reveal the exact nature of my powers, which I won't go into extreme detail on just yet.
I'm not sure I should say. Maybe there is a role that knows all the roles in the game? And you're trying to confirm I am who I say I am?
Maybe this is some kinda weird mafia fishing attempt?
I'll think about it.
Sounds more like you just made shit up and can't think of a name that fits the description you gave.
Oh, I see.
The name of the role is Sticky. You can see earlier that I used the word sticky to try to see if Node had the same role as me.
As far as making it up, that would be the worst mafia play in the history of mafia. Again like I said (this is the millionth time now)
In order to fake this role I have to out a scumbuddy every single day, who has to lie, putting pressure on an increasing amount of mafia. I would also have to fake the second part of my role, which would be impossible to do since the results are objective and not able to be manipulated.
To DrH: If you are mafia and your role is similar to what you say it is, it could just be instead of you being able to "confirm your role as a townie" to other people it could be "fake your role as a townie" to other people. You don't need to out other mafias to do that.
Looks like my post is just being jumped over You don't necessarily to have made up the entire role, but it could work just as you said but instead favor the mafia instead of town. Like a mafia role that can "confirm he's town through other people"
This would be a good point if it weren't for the fact that my role has a second ability which is designed to hurt mafia which I can also prove I have over the course of the game. In fact my main concern when I thought "how will mafia attempt to discredit me" was that they would say it was a mafia role in the first place
when i fully roleclaim and prove my role is what it is you will all see that is ludicrous
I've already said mayors should obviously be involved in town circles
Dr: H
You also just said it could be very useful for the mayor to be in such a circle and now you say "what use is the circle at all!"
Dr: H(previous)
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
Dr. H(after)
You did not say I was solely operating in secret
I want DTS checking Dr. H, at the very least if he's mafia it will force them to elect him godfather(which would probably be the best move anyway)
Good job pointing out nothing again Pandain.
I am saying you implied I was operating solely in secret. I quoted bolded and red'd the part where you implied that (to my interpretation). I never ever once said you literally used the same words. This is bad wordplay and it does nothing but discredit me for no reason
It seems like you are trying to say "the circle is a good thing and should be taken advantage of" and "the circle is a bad thing and should be feared" at the same time. Your rhetoric throughout the game seems to me to be emphasizing the latter.
In case you are arguing because you are confused by what I mean, since it seems you are wholly misinterpeting and twisting my words, I will explain
Yes,the circle is a good thing. It is an incredible asset to town and should be used wisely. However, it is also to be feared. A circle is not a group of confirmed townies, in this game it is merely a group of people who can pm(since only Dr. H would be confirmed.)
Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well. But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. I know your very expierenced and beast as mafia but as of now your arguments just don't have substance. Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. Pms and town circles in this game imo should only be used for stuff a blue can't say in thread or risk being killed(aka dt checks and finds scum.) Besides that, it is wholly unconfirmed.
OK, so you don't think it's useless. KK
"Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well."
Nope, my role has a second ability which can be used to coordinate blue action and stop the plague. That helps the town immensely.
" But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. " As opposed to a non existent third option?
"Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. " You're doing the same thing NB is doing. You're basically saying "Dr.H is no good as a townie" when I have never been a townie in the past. So I assume you are basing that in my scumhunting in this game and I can't say I agree. Mind telling me what targets are better?
" And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. "
I've already said mayors should obviously be involved in town circles
Dr: H
You also just said it could be very useful for the mayor to be in such a circle and now you say "what use is the circle at all!"
Dr: H(previous)
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
Dr. H(after)
You did not say I was solely operating in secret
I want DTS checking Dr. H, at the very least if he's mafia it will force them to elect him godfather(which would probably be the best move anyway)
Good job pointing out nothing again Pandain.
I am saying you implied I was operating solely in secret. I quoted bolded and red'd the part where you implied that (to my interpretation). I never ever once said you literally used the same words. This is bad wordplay and it does nothing but discredit me for no reason
It seems like you are trying to say "the circle is a good thing and should be taken advantage of" and "the circle is a bad thing and should be feared" at the same time. Your rhetoric throughout the game seems to me to be emphasizing the latter.
In case you are arguing because you are confused by what I mean, since it seems you are wholly misinterpeting and twisting my words, I will explain
Yes,the circle is a good thing. It is an incredible asset to town and should be used wisely. However, it is also to be feared. A circle is not a group of confirmed townies, in this game it is merely a group of people who can pm(since only Dr. H would be confirmed.)
Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well. But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. I know your very expierenced and beast as mafia but as of now your arguments just don't have substance. Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. Pms and town circles in this game imo should only be used for stuff a blue can't say in thread or risk being killed(aka dt checks and finds scum.) Besides that, it is wholly unconfirmed.
OK, so you don't think it's useless. KK
"Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well."
Nope, my role has a second ability which can be used to coordinate blue action and stop the plague. That helps the town immensely. But do you need to be mayor? So this point is irrelevant " But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. " As opposed to a non existent third option? Ya, theres no third party, I've explained why earlier "Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. " You're doing the same thing NB is doing. You're basically saying "Dr.H is no good as a townie" when I have never been a townie in the past. So I assume you are basing that in my scumhunting in this game and I can't say I agree. Mind telling me what targets are better? I don't know if your no good as townie. I do know that I'm not mafia(lol what good is saying that though :p) so your off there. I'll post analysis tommorow on people. Hopefuly we get more posts by then.
" And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. " Do it. I believe the same thing about myself.
How is it irrelevant that I can help the town immensely as mayor? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard : /
So you criticize my townie play, without knowing that i'm bad or good at townie. ok
I've already said mayors should obviously be involved in town circles
Dr: H
You also just said it could be very useful for the mayor to be in such a circle and now you say "what use is the circle at all!"
Dr: H(previous)
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
Dr. H(after)
You did not say I was solely operating in secret
I want DTS checking Dr. H, at the very least if he's mafia it will force them to elect him godfather(which would probably be the best move anyway)
Good job pointing out nothing again Pandain.
I am saying you implied I was operating solely in secret. I quoted bolded and red'd the part where you implied that (to my interpretation). I never ever once said you literally used the same words. This is bad wordplay and it does nothing but discredit me for no reason
It seems like you are trying to say "the circle is a good thing and should be taken advantage of" and "the circle is a bad thing and should be feared" at the same time. Your rhetoric throughout the game seems to me to be emphasizing the latter.
In case you are arguing because you are confused by what I mean, since it seems you are wholly misinterpeting and twisting my words, I will explain
Yes,the circle is a good thing. It is an incredible asset to town and should be used wisely. However, it is also to be feared. A circle is not a group of confirmed townies, in this game it is merely a group of people who can pm(since only Dr. H would be confirmed.)
Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well. But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. I know your very expierenced and beast as mafia but as of now your arguments just don't have substance. Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. Pms and town circles in this game imo should only be used for stuff a blue can't say in thread or risk being killed(aka dt checks and finds scum.) Besides that, it is wholly unconfirmed.
OK, so you don't think it's useless. KK
"Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well."
Nope, my role has a second ability which can be used to coordinate blue action and stop the plague. That helps the town immensely. But do you need to be mayor? So this point is irrelevant " But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. " As opposed to a non existent third option? Ya, theres no third party, I've explained why earlier "Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. " You're doing the same thing NB is doing. You're basically saying "Dr.H is no good as a townie" when I have never been a townie in the past. So I assume you are basing that in my scumhunting in this game and I can't say I agree. Mind telling me what targets are better? I don't know if your no good as townie. I do know that I'm not mafia(lol what good is saying that though :p) so your off there. I'll post analysis tommorow on people. Hopefuly we get more posts by then.
" And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. " Do it. I believe the same thing about myself.
How is it irrelevant that I can help the town immensely as mayor? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard : /
So you criticize my townie play, without knowing that i'm bad or good at townie. ok
Its irrelevant being mayor. Please, read my post. I clearly say "but do you need to be mayor? THEREFORE, the point is irrelevant" regarding the election.
And I don't make a final judgement on your play, whether townie or mafia, but your arguments against me are poor, and rightly so given I have done no wrong. If I have, point it out, and see I have done nothing malicious.
No it's not irrelevant because my being mayor greatly improves my ability to help the town out.
I've already said mayors should obviously be involved in town circles
Dr: H
You also just said it could be very useful for the mayor to be in such a circle and now you say "what use is the circle at all!"
Dr: H(previous)
You never implied I was operating solely in secret? You can't bury your very obvious statements Pandain, no matter how bad you want to diffuse this argument.
Dr. H(after)
You did not say I was solely operating in secret
I want DTS checking Dr. H, at the very least if he's mafia it will force them to elect him godfather(which would probably be the best move anyway)
Good job pointing out nothing again Pandain.
I am saying you implied I was operating solely in secret. I quoted bolded and red'd the part where you implied that (to my interpretation). I never ever once said you literally used the same words. This is bad wordplay and it does nothing but discredit me for no reason
It seems like you are trying to say "the circle is a good thing and should be taken advantage of" and "the circle is a bad thing and should be feared" at the same time. Your rhetoric throughout the game seems to me to be emphasizing the latter.
In case you are arguing because you are confused by what I mean, since it seems you are wholly misinterpeting and twisting my words, I will explain
Yes,the circle is a good thing. It is an incredible asset to town and should be used wisely. However, it is also to be feared. A circle is not a group of confirmed townies, in this game it is merely a group of people who can pm(since only Dr. H would be confirmed.)
Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well. But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. I know your very expierenced and beast as mafia but as of now your arguments just don't have substance. Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. Pms and town circles in this game imo should only be used for stuff a blue can't say in thread or risk being killed(aka dt checks and finds scum.) Besides that, it is wholly unconfirmed.
OK, so you don't think it's useless. KK
"Alright, so great, you become mayor, and the only thing that happens is you become confirmed. I can confirm myself as well."
Nope, my role has a second ability which can be used to coordinate blue action and stop the plague. That helps the town immensely. But do you need to be mayor? So this point is irrelevant " But as it stands, either you are mafia again or this is your first time as townie. " As opposed to a non existent third option? Ya, theres no third party, I've explained why earlier "Your scum hunting just isn't on radar. " You're doing the same thing NB is doing. You're basically saying "Dr.H is no good as a townie" when I have never been a townie in the past. So I assume you are basing that in my scumhunting in this game and I can't say I agree. Mind telling me what targets are better? I don't know if your no good as townie. I do know that I'm not mafia(lol what good is saying that though :p) so your off there. I'll post analysis tommorow on people. Hopefuly we get more posts by then.
" And that's why I'm running for mayor, because I believe I can contribute really good analysis that everyone can discuss, and I will help make a final decision. " Do it. I believe the same thing about myself.
How is it irrelevant that I can help the town immensely as mayor? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard : /
So you criticize my townie play, without knowing that i'm bad or good at townie. ok
Its irrelevant being mayor. Please, read my post. I clearly say "but do you need to be mayor? THEREFORE, the point is irrelevant" regarding the election.
And I don't make a final judgement on your play, whether townie or mafia, but your arguments against me are poor, and rightly so given I have done no wrong. If I have, point it out, and see I have done nothing malicious.
No it's not irrelevant because my being mayor greatly improves my ability to help the town out.
How. Does your role say "if mayor my powers increase 10x"
does yours?
obviously immunity at night would improve my ability to coordinate in the open, don't be stupid
On October 30 2010 12:05 Fishball wrote: To be honest, I do think all this debating is getting quite stupid and going in circles. Most of my replies have been mentioned before and it's just repeat and repeat.
Agreed.
I think it would be a good idea for all mayoral candidates to restate their platform without attacking anybody else. It might clarify a lot of things and it would give everyone a chance to say exactly what they mean without it being twisted by mafia discreditors
Simply,I have a role which can do two things: confirm itself to another player at night and help to stop the spread of murrayitis. The first ability will confirm I am who I say I am to the town, if used correctly, and the second will limit the mafia from using the plague to achieve their win condition. I will not allow poor bandwagons and mafia manipulation to influence my decisions and I offer coordination powers that are uncorruptable.
So why is it important that you're mayor?
I can't coordinate blues and plague doctors if I'm dead. It's also very beneficial to the town to have a mayor that can confirm himself as blue, doubly so if he can be inducted into a town circle. After I am confirmed to be not mafia and am immune to night kills, by being inducted into the circle I can do two things:
1. coordinate blues in the circle further and use myself as a mouthpiece for their communication in the thread. 2. keep an eye on suspicious activity within the circle and relay this information to the town.
If I'm not inducted into the circle, I can still easily coordinate doctor action within the thread itself.
On October 30 2010 11:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I can understand why people maybe don't want me to be mayor over fishball but trying to paint me as scum is ludicrous.
Let's say I am mafia.
I am faking a role in which I confirm my role to another player each night. To fake this I must get another mafia to pretend that I did this each day, who would probably be DT checked immediately throwing me under suspicion.
I don't want to say exactly how my second ability works but I can reliably show my powers in helping to stop the spread of the plague. Faking this would be much quicker. It would be incredibly easy to catch me in this lie and since the results of my actions are reflected in the murrayitis numbers and the success of plague doctors, it isn't really something I can pull off.
I am offering myself for lynch if the information I'm giving is found to be unreliable. So as mafia here, I'm sacrificing myself. my scumbuddies, and making claims that I cannot fulfill.
An utterly retarded thing to do. Not to mention the fact that being mayor barely benefits mafia in this case. The only real benefit is immunity to vig hits and the second vote.
In a normal mafia game, the mayor has 3 extra votes, complete immunity from night actions. A DT can check the mayor for godssake.
So for me to pull this off all of the following are true: I am mafia I am godfather I can get the mafia to pretend I am confirming to them without ever being caught I can fake a role that involves stopping the spread of murrayitis which isn't a possibility.
Consider all of that for the benefit a mafia player would be going for: extra vote immunity to vigs
and also weight the con a mafia has from being mayor: guaranteed DT visit immense pressure/scrutiny from town
it really is nonsensical, added to the fact that I can prove my role is what I say it is after the night, there is really nothing here to paint me as scum. If it's made up bullshit, and thats what you believe, then I'm handing you my life and the lives of my scumbuddies on a plate.
I'm not a good neighbor. I can not be confirmed by Artanis to be town aligned. However it's as simple as this: 1. I can show my power to the town that is consistent with the role I claimed 2. The nature of the role itself is one that is expressly anti-mafia which can also be demonstrated.
Ok. What do you offer aside from your role? I don't like the idea of someone campaigning on their role alone.
Independence. A lot of mayors talk about how they're "with the town" and "they'll act for the town" and things like this. This is the opposite of what the mayor should do. With a mayor who is confirmed to be town aligned, acting independently is important to avoid the prevalence of mafia bandwagons.
Mafia have the full voting power of their membership. If they are able to manipulate the mayor as well, they can add an additional 2 votes to their poor bandwagon. Having a mayor who doesn't take things at face value and get manipulated by mafia bandwagons is very important.
2 people have already criticized my scumhunting as being bad (even though I've never been townie before so they can't really base it on anything) but I can tell you it isn't. I've been mafia every single game I've been in and I know how the play. I've been a scum mayor before and I know how they play and what they do. I know what gets under the mafias skin.
I have a plan for going about scumhunting and it isn't always obvious. But it's something I'm doing constantly and when I feel I'm ready to lay down the hammer of justice, I will. And I will always provide the utmost amount of reason and logic to everything I do. None of my actions will go unexplained, at the end of the day.
So that's why I'm running and that's why I feel you should vote for me. Choose wisely town :3
My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts.
Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked.
Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen)
So whats the name of your role, i'm curious
Does it matter?
It seems strange that you would want to know. I guess it would do no harm to tell, it wouldn't reveal the exact nature of my powers, which I won't go into extreme detail on just yet.
I'm not sure I should say. Maybe there is a role that knows all the roles in the game? And you're trying to confirm I am who I say I am?
Maybe this is some kinda weird mafia fishing attempt?
I'll think about it.
Sounds more like you just made shit up and can't think of a name that fits the description you gave.
Oh, I see.
The name of the role is Sticky. You can see earlier that I used the word sticky to try to see if Node had the same role as me.
As far as making it up, that would be the worst mafia play in the history of mafia. Again like I said (this is the millionth time now)
In order to fake this role I have to out a scumbuddy every single day, who has to lie, putting pressure on an increasing amount of mafia. I would also have to fake the second part of my role, which would be impossible to do since the results are objective and not able to be manipulated.
DrH, you've been mafia MANY times before as you've said. You, better than anyone, should know that is not the ONLY way to fake this role.
Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
He's given us this description of his role but it doesn't assuage my hesitations.
Simply,I have a role which can do two things: confirm itself to another player at night and help to stop the spread of murrayitis. The first ability will confirm I am who I say I am to the town, if used correctly, and the second will limit the mafia from using the plague to achieve their win condition. I will not allow poor bandwagons and mafia manipulation to influence my decisions and I offer coordination powers that are uncorruptable.
How exactly does your role work? How WILL we know that you're legitimately town? What if you pretend to use your "ability" and another Red says, "Hey, DrH came to me in my dreams and now I KNOW he's Blue."
What I want from DrH is to convince me that this is not the case. If he cannot provide that, he will not get my vote.
I cannot have a scumbuddy do the actions of my role since the role confirms my identity to a player I choose at night.
By having scumbuddies claim I confirmed to them at night, I am essentially forced to constantly our the identities of my own scumbuddies. A disastrous play if I were to be lynched and flip red.
Basically the person I confirm to will know it was me who confirmed to them. Artanis will send the PM to them, it can't be faked.
The other aspect of my ability is to determine who does and doesn't have murrayitis. As I'm sure you can tell this would be crucial in coordinating plague doctors.
But Dr.H, mafia will know who has murrayitis?
Correct. But why would I have someone infected with murrayitis then tell the plague doctor to cure them? That's is ridiculous play, to constantly nullify your own night actions for the sake of innocence.
I believe the fact that I would have to out my entire team over the course of the game proves it won't be a mafia fake. I will claim every single time I confirm to someone.
On October 30 2010 13:12 Glasse wrote: Just stating, in a weird way, that you have no credibility to me.
ok would you like to back that statement up or are you just going to keep saying meaningless nonsense
All you said did not prove anything. There is nothing to believe. You could of easily made everything up. Also your role does not make any sense, those 2 different actions you can do are not linked together at all, and the name sticky doesn't sound right for it either.
I guess i can't really back it up but all the nonsense i said earlier meant as much as everything you said about why you should be mayor.
They are linked together.
No it didn't. I can prove my role is what it is. You can't. You're saying I can't prove anything and that I can make it all up.
Why don't you refute the points I make here:
On October 30 2010 11:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I can understand why people maybe don't want me to be mayor over fishball but trying to paint me as scum is ludicrous.
Let's say I am mafia.
I am faking a role in which I confirm my role to another player each night. To fake this I must get another mafia to pretend that I did this each day, who would probably be DT checked immediately throwing me under suspicion.
I don't want to say exactly how my second ability works but I can reliably show my powers in helping to stop the spread of the plague. Faking this would be much quicker. It would be incredibly easy to catch me in this lie and since the results of my actions are reflected in the murrayitis numbers and the success of plague doctors, it isn't really something I can pull off.
I am offering myself for lynch if the information I'm giving is found to be unreliable. So as mafia here, I'm sacrificing myself. my scumbuddies, and making claims that I cannot fulfill.
An utterly retarded thing to do. Not to mention the fact that being mayor barely benefits mafia in this case. The only real benefit is immunity to vig hits and the second vote.
In a normal mafia game, the mayor has 3 extra votes, complete immunity from night actions. A DT can check the mayor for godssake.
So for me to pull this off all of the following are true: I am mafia I am godfather I can get the mafia to pretend I am confirming to them without ever being caught I can fake a role that involves stopping the spread of murrayitis which isn't a possibility.
Consider all of that for the benefit a mafia player would be going for: extra vote immunity to vigs
and also weight the con a mafia has from being mayor: guaranteed DT visit immense pressure/scrutiny from town
it really is nonsensical, added to the fact that I can prove my role is what I say it is after the night, there is really nothing here to paint me as scum. If it's made up bullshit, and thats what you believe, then I'm handing you my life and the lives of my scumbuddies on a plate.
I mean specifically, with logic and reason. Don't just say "well you can make that all up" because that's not a real argument and you can toss that kind of bullshit onto anybody. It isn't a real argument.
On October 30 2010 06:10 Pandain wrote: Alright this is pretty bad for town. Alot of people would be alot safer if everyone didn't decide to run for mayor because they need "protection." because honestly, the best protection is secrecy. Now only one of us will win the election, and the rest of us will be sniped off.
Also, Bum, whats with anyone but me? I'd like to hear your reasons instead of just words.
Merely because you havent hinted at what you could do besides be a mayor. I think every candidate has stated what he is capable of. You, not really...
On October 30 2010 10:15 Pandain wrote: sorry still reading but just to adress one vital concern.
I am very proactive. I will help the town, i've already decided what we should do if I'm elected so I might as well share it.
As of now, we need medics protecting several of the valuable blues that claimed to run. Sure, one may be a mafia but most likely the rest will be vital blues. So I think they should RNG between Dr. H, Fishball, and possibly Bum. And If i lose, then take out the winner and add me.
Right now I don't have any active thoughts because really its day 1. Anyone who says they really know whats going on is either mafia or wrong. Sure, you can get lucky every once in a while but unless someone truly scum slips it's going to be mostly a guessing game.
If you've seen any of my games, you'd know I'm very decisive. Anyway, still reading.
top medic targets should be: ace bumatlarge fishball
Dangerous to be suggesting these things with M-rus around, but I will get to that. + Show Spoiler +
On October 30 2010 12:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
My platform or why I'm running for mayor
Simply,I have a role which can do two things: confirm itself to another player at night and help to stop the spread of murrayitis. The first ability will confirm I am who I say I am to the town, if used correctly, and the second will limit the mafia from using the plague to achieve their win condition. I will not allow poor bandwagons and mafia manipulation to influence my decisions and I offer coordination powers that are uncorruptable.
So why is it important that you're mayor?
I can't coordinate blues and plague doctors if I'm dead. It's also very beneficial to the town to have a mayor that can confirm himself as blue, doubly so if he can be inducted into a town circle. After I am confirmed to be not mafia and am immune to night kills, by being inducted into the circle I can do two things:
1. coordinate blues in the circle further and use myself as a mouthpiece for their communication in the thread. 2. keep an eye on suspicious activity within the circle and relay this information to the town.
If I'm not inducted into the circle, I can still easily coordinate doctor action within the thread itself.
On October 30 2010 11:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I can understand why people maybe don't want me to be mayor over fishball but trying to paint me as scum is ludicrous.
Let's say I am mafia.
I am faking a role in which I confirm my role to another player each night. To fake this I must get another mafia to pretend that I did this each day, who would probably be DT checked immediately throwing me under suspicion.
I don't want to say exactly how my second ability works but I can reliably show my powers in helping to stop the spread of the plague. Faking this would be much quicker. It would be incredibly easy to catch me in this lie and since the results of my actions are reflected in the murrayitis numbers and the success of plague doctors, it isn't really something I can pull off.
I am offering myself for lynch if the information I'm giving is found to be unreliable. So as mafia here, I'm sacrificing myself. my scumbuddies, and making claims that I cannot fulfill.
An utterly retarded thing to do. Not to mention the fact that being mayor barely benefits mafia in this case. The only real benefit is immunity to vig hits and the second vote.
In a normal mafia game, the mayor has 3 extra votes, complete immunity from night actions. A DT can check the mayor for godssake.
So for me to pull this off all of the following are true: I am mafia I am godfather I can get the mafia to pretend I am confirming to them without ever being caught I can fake a role that involves stopping the spread of murrayitis which isn't a possibility.
Consider all of that for the benefit a mafia player would be going for: extra vote immunity to vigs
and also weight the con a mafia has from being mayor: guaranteed DT visit immense pressure/scrutiny from town
it really is nonsensical, added to the fact that I can prove my role is what I say it is after the night, there is really nothing here to paint me as scum. If it's made up bullshit, and thats what you believe, then I'm handing you my life and the lives of my scumbuddies on a plate.
I'm not a good neighbor. I can not be confirmed by Artanis to be town aligned. However it's as simple as this: 1. I can show my power to the town that is consistent with the role I claimed 2. The nature of the role itself is one that is expressly anti-mafia which can also be demonstrated.
Ok. What do you offer aside from your role? I don't like the idea of someone campaigning on their role alone.
Independence. A lot of mayors talk about how they're "with the town" and "they'll act for the town" and things like this. This is the opposite of what the mayor should do. With a mayor who is confirmed to be town aligned, acting independently is important to avoid the prevalence of mafia bandwagons.
Mafia have the full voting power of their membership. If they are able to manipulate the mayor as well, they can add an additional 2 votes to their poor bandwagon. Having a mayor who doesn't take things at face value and get manipulated by mafia bandwagons is very important.
2 people have already criticized my scumhunting as being bad (even though I've never been townie before so they can't really base it on anything) but I can tell you it isn't. I've been mafia every single game I've been in and I know how the play. I've been a scum mayor before and I know how they play and what they do. I know what gets under the mafias skin.
I have a plan for going about scumhunting and it isn't always obvious. But it's something I'm doing constantly and when I feel I'm ready to lay down the hammer of justice, I will. And I will always provide the utmost amount of reason and logic to everything I do. None of my actions will go unexplained, at the end of the day.
So that's why I'm running and that's why I feel you should vote for me. Choose wisely town :3
I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
I am not plague doctor. I can not cure murrayitis, I can determine 100% who has it. Thus I can direct plague doctors to act reliably.
I might as well say how my power works. Once during the night I can poke someone. They will be informed that they were poked by me. Artanis sends this PM. If the poke is successful, I am told and this means they do not have M-rus. A person with M-rus cannot be poked and I will be told by Artanis that they have murrayitis.
This is why earlier in the thread (much earlier) i said there was a 1/39 chance my confirmation would fail.
Also I am completely immune to M-Rus, I can not be infected with it under any circumstance.
Plague doctors should not protect me. This will free up more doctors to protect more people. By giving me immunity from night kills, medics won't have to waste their time on me, even though I'm a big target to mafia, and they can play more effectively.
On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote: I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray.
It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.
Bill Murray the Miller is now dead.
Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims.
I can't directly quote a role PM but the idea is that "I gained life from Bill Murrays death"
Although I doubt there is a clue in the death post from a separate game. That seems really far fetched. I forgot about that post hahaha I guess the name makes sense now. Since my action is called "poking" it would make sense since a stick pokes people.
Looks like my role makes sense now Glasse, sorry bro.
also m-rus does not kill people the night after afaik, but if half the town is infected mafia win.
can artanis confirm this?
this post is @bumatlarge who claimed it was dangerous to come out with a medic list. i disagree becuase it doesn't matter who gets infected with m-rus but how reliable myself and the plague doctors are in identifying the targets
On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Okay, I think that my previous question got lost in the thread. Can anyone answer this for me?
On October 29 2010 18:36 kingjames01 wrote: Is a person who has been visited by the Plague Doctor gain immunity for the remainder of the game?
I decided to play this game from the beginning as though everyone was mafia but me.
DrH supposed role is "Sticky"
On October 30 2010 11:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 11:27 Glasse wrote:
On October 30 2010 11:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 11:23 Glasse wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts.
Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked.
Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen)
So whats the name of your role, i'm curious
Does it matter?
It seems strange that you would want to know. I guess it would do no harm to tell, it wouldn't reveal the exact nature of my powers, which I won't go into extreme detail on just yet.
I'm not sure I should say. Maybe there is a role that knows all the roles in the game? And you're trying to confirm I am who I say I am?
Maybe this is some kinda weird mafia fishing attempt?
I'll think about it.
Sounds more like you just made shit up and can't think of a name that fits the description you gave.
Oh, I see.
The name of the role is Sticky. You can see earlier that I used the word sticky to try to see if Node had the same role as me.
As far as making it up, that would be the worst mafia play in the history of mafia. Again like I said (this is the millionth time now)
In order to fake this role I have to out a scumbuddy every single day, who has to lie, putting pressure on an increasing amount of mafia. I would also have to fake the second part of my role, which would be impossible to do since the results are objective and not able to be manipulated.
DrH, you've been mafia MANY times before as you've said. You, better than anyone, should know that is not the ONLY way to fake this role.
Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
He's given us this description of his role but it doesn't assuage my hesitations.
On October 30 2010 12:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
My platform or why I'm running for mayor
Simply,I have a role which can do two things: confirm itself to another player at night and help to stop the spread of murrayitis. The first ability will confirm I am who I say I am to the town, if used correctly, and the second will limit the mafia from using the plague to achieve their win condition. I will not allow poor bandwagons and mafia manipulation to influence my decisions and I offer coordination powers that are uncorruptable.
How exactly does your role work? How WILL we know that you're legitimately town? What if you pretend to use your "ability" and another Red says, "Hey, DrH came to me in my dreams and now I KNOW he's Blue."
What I want from DrH is to convince me that this is not the case. If he cannot provide that, he will not get my vote.
Kingjames raises a lot of valid points. DrH, you're avoiding his answers and just focusing on Glasse, who's obviously an idiot.
What is your response to KingJames' comments?
I didn't insult you, why would you insult me? Acting and being are 2 different things...
On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity.
His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is.
I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky.
sticky is a stick
I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker.
if you guys want further confirmation that I am town and not mafia and that I have the role I say I do just look at my old posts in concern to node where I allude to my role in hopes he would pick up on the clue (thinking he had the same role as me at the time)
this would be an insane amount of foresight for a mafia to have.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
That is an interesting scenario. All I can say is if I tell the town someone has murrayitis, and the plague doctors visit them, that'll be cured and it'll show in the numbers.
Now that you said that mafia can just start infecting the people I confirm to, to make it look like I'm doing the infecting
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
That is an interesting scenario. All I can say is if I tell the town someone has murrayitis, and the plague doctors visit them, that'll be cured and it'll show in the numbers.
Now that you said that mafia can just start infecting the people I confirm to, to make it look like I'm doing the infecting
I think you misread my post. What I said is that if you're the one infected, and you can find reds that are infected, you would still be able to show the murrayitis numbers decrease while piling up the disease on townies.
It's a hypothetical scenario though, no need to be defensive about it. I'm not nearly convinced it's true yet. What I want is collaboration to find a satisfactory (non-WIFOM) method to confirm DrH in this case. I hope to ACTUALLY have FULL 100% faith in the person I give my mayoral vote to.
I see. This is a pretty unlikely scenario.
For this to be true, it means Artanis tricked me.
My solution: Plague Doctor visits the first person I confirm to. If I didn't infect them that will be immdiately apparent.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
I was told I was given new life after the death of bill murray and as a result am immune to the disease of murrayitis.
That is why a plague doctor must check my first confirmed target. If they are "cured" of murrayitis then I will never use my night action and hopefully no one will ever be infected.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
On October 30 2010 14:19 kingjames01 wrote: At least, this is creating a good discussion.
I hope this doesn't get lost by the morning. I want people to see this and think about it. At the moment, DrH has a lot of support for the position of mayor.
I'm unwilling to elect someone called "Sticky" when it's so clear that Sticky was intimately connected with Bill Murray's death and, therefore, also intimately tied with Murrayitis. What better way to spread a disease than to poke someone with an infected stick?
if that is the case i have an insane role
however considering I am being told that bill murrays death has given me new life resulting in immunity from m-rus i really really doubt this is the case
this can also be easily confirmed by plague doctor play and then i can stop the spread of m-rus completely ALTOGETHER
even so, electing me is a win/win scenario for the town
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~
@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all.
I agree. No matter who has M-Rus they should be cured, to prevent its spread.
As far as checkin whether or not I am the origin of m-rus it's as simple as having one plague doctor visit my first confirmee.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_-
I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor.
Besides, if truly that's all you can do, I can hardly think the ability to check ONE player a day for a disease which doesn't even kill unless it's extensively spread to be the "SUPER IMPORTANT" role that you claimed as your role.
Further, there is no way we will be able to confirm that your stick doesn't infect people - As kingjames has mentioned, if your stick is "dirty," you can simply claim whoever you infected the first night to have "turned up as infected" in your "check". Then you can just let the other blues check on him, further confirming your "innoc
I didn't kill a goddamn mafia, I modkilled southrawrea because he didn't vote for a living person.
Want to fling more bullshit insults my way or do you want to play this game the right way
why don't you mod a 61 person game practically by yourself and make zero mistakes before you act like an asshole to me. oh wait you can't even keep a simple spreadsheet factual in the first day of the game LOL
this is the second time in this game you've tried to make me look bad because of the mistakes i made in haunted mafia (all 2 of them) and yeah, it's done gone and pissed me the hell off. uncalled for.
also i talked to qatol about the game and we both agreed that my lack of communication with meeple who was pretty inactive was the main reason for errors in such a huge game
you're being really petty orgolove and i'll be honest you hurt my feelings. i put a lot into that game and you're just kicking dirt in my face for it.
On October 30 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote: Fine. I'll stop bringing in your confirmed flaws into this equation.
But lets say EVERYTHING you said is 100% true. Basically, your ability is thus: "Check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis."
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately - rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
Is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person a day so important that we should nominate him as the mayor?
confirmed by me, not you
you don't even know what fucking mistakes i made since you've been wrong about every single one
I can direct plague doctors, plague doctors don't know who does and doesn't have the disease and thus can't reliable coordinate the actions of other plague doctors
not to mention a confirmed townie mayor is a very useful thing, considering the fact that it is likely i would be recruited into the various circles of teh game
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_-
I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor.
First, you need to STOP with the personal attacks. How does your personal crusade help anyone in this game? Focus on what is relevant. We're going to need logic to get through an insane game.
Anyway, a couple of comments about this following post:
On October 30 2010 14:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: The same sort of arguments could be applied to almost any player, that their role could be INSANE and unhelpful and all that jazz.
I think I've done enough to prove to you guys that I'm on your side as town.
You're pressing it so hard it's almost suspicious ;0 although i understand not wanting to leave any stone of possibility unturned
I'm being sincere in my attempts to further this discussion. I agree that you seem town, especially since you voluntarily gave information about your role even before you realized the significance of the title. I am not trying to discredit you. You're under fire only because you were the the most recent candidate to sum up your position. Then I asked for more specifics and now we're discussing that your role may be tainted.
I just want the town to perform their due diligence before we elect our Mayor.
Fair enough kingjames01, that's all I really needed to hear. I guess I would want to do the same thing.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
On October 30 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote: Fine. I'll stop bringing in your confirmed flaws into this equation.
But lets say EVERYTHING you said is 100% true. Basically, your ability is thus: "Check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis."
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately - rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
Is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person a day so important that we should nominate him as the mayor?
This is a good point. I'd much rather put bum as mayor, because circle leader/manager is more worthy of nightkill invincibility.
Drop all the personal attacks. They're distracting us from the issues at hand.
Once again, circle leader, secret PMs mafia GF doesn't sound good to me. :/ The whole Dr. H thing has caused so much havoc and spam that it makes me suspect him as Mafia simply distracting us by causing havoc. >_>
Am I the one causing havoc or are the people who are coming up with extreme WIFOM situations that necessitate deception of me by Artanis and intense metagaming causing this shitstorm?
On October 30 2010 14:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: not to mention a confirmed townie mayor is a very useful thing, considering the fact that it is likely i would be recruited into the various circles of teh game
On October 30 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote: Basically, your ability is thus: "Check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis."
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately - rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
Is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person a day so important that we should nominate him as the mayor?
And regarding your second point, in a game where we don't know the true mechanics of your role, your role could easily involve simply infecting people with your stick.
After one night action, you can simply claim that the guy you infected "turned up infected" in your nightly "check." Then you can just as easily invite plague doctors to cure him. When they confirm your victim was infected, you were going to claim that you are a blue based on that fact.
Thus, based on pure game mechanics consideration, there is no way you can prove your status as a townie.
it can be proved that my mechanic is not infecting people with my stick. if plague doctors visit the people i poke, then it will become immediately apparent if that is the case
if i am mafia i have put myself in the worst possible position where lying would get me instakilled
considering you've called me out on two lies already in this thread that I immediately called out as bullshit (funny how you didn't respond either time) I'm not surprised you're trying to imply it again
the problem with your analysis is this and I'm now going to respond to the part I'm bolded
This would have to be a person other than the person I poked. Since when a poke DOESN'T go through that means the person is infected, a poke going through means they are not.
so lets say I infect someone intentionally then invite plague doctors to cure him.
then i'm not infecting anyone throughout the whole game as I do this. meaning that my infection power is made 0, a shitty awful play. so I'm shooting myself in the foot to get confirmed blue status for almost no benefit (an extra vote whoopee). I'd have to lie to get a real infection off and plague doctos would know, could claim it, and get me lynched
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
we know that as of now, no one in this game has the plague. artanis clearly clearly stated this in the day post.
the general town consensus is that the 2+1 mafia kp means that the "1" is probably a role that infects people with murrayitis
the only other alternative I see is that the disease is dropped on somebody through an RNG by artanis
the only other alternative I see is that the disease is dropped on somebody through an RNG by artanis
i doubt that is the case because that could put the town in a lot of trouble without mafia doing anything about it.
I agree, I think it's very likely that this is a mafia power.
Look the only alternative to my role is that I'm an insane role that doesn't know he is the infector. Like I said, If this is the case, this can be found out immediately through use of our plague doctor
i am really not that capable of an this intricate of a plan as mafia, i didn't even think of some of the crazy possibilities you guys are coming up with. maybe ya'll woudl be better stickys than me
On October 30 2010 15:10 Ace wrote: No, you could be lying to get Mayor power because you fear the potential damage the other candidates can do
If I was Scum I'd heavily consider running for Mayor just to deny it to the town. It's more than just an extra vote (which is always powerful) - I deny the right for a pro-town player to have bodyguards and can now kill with impunity.
Either way the more you talk the more I'm against you being Mayor. Too much WIFOM bullshit instead of just facing up to the fact that we have no role list, can't trust people on their word alone and your power really isn't the super duper "I need Mayor because my role owns" ability I was led to believe. I don't see how you getting to be Mayor amplifies your power to the point of ownage.
fair enough. I'm not the one starting the WIFOM bullshit. I can confirm my power by poking people who can confirm it in the thread. No it isn't the same as artanis telling them "Hey DoctorHelvetica is town" but I think it's a pretty good confirmation tool
i really don't see why anyone would think i was mafia although I can see why you would want to elect fishball or bumatlarge over me for sure
I made my case, my platform, and I feel I've done more to come out as town than anyone has so far. Fishball/Bumatlarge i can see why they would make fantastic mayors considering their powers but I feel that I'm the safest choice in terms of alignment
On October 30 2010 18:15 orgolove wrote: DoctorHelvetica's Candidacy: The Reality
Just step back, and take a look. Forget all personal feelings, and just look at the facts.
We are trying to vote for a mayor of the town. The chosen will:
Kill one person of his choice immediately at the end of the first day
have increased voting power for each subsequent lynches
near invincibility to night kills thanks to the presence of bodyguards
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
DrH's candidacy hinges on two points.
His claim that his role is extremely important - so much so that his role deserves the extra protection afforded to the mayor.
His claim that he is not a red, and that he will roleclaim without a shadow of doubt after the first day.
To support his first point, he revealed that his role is "Mr Sticky," a role that allows him to "poke" someone as his night action. If his claim is correct, he will then know if the target has Murrayitis.
On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity.
His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is.
I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky.
sticky is a stick
I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker.
On October 29 2010 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Murrayitis Mechanics. The amount of people infected with Murrayitis is posted at the start of the day. Murrayitis is transferred if a carrier is visited, or visits someone during the night. Doctors can cure someone from Murrayitis. While Plague Doctors can cure and transfer immunity to someone with Murrayitis. If over half of the Game has Murrayitis, every carrier of Murrayitis dies.
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote: I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray.
On October 13 2010 13:02 BrownBear wrote:
Night 3
It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.
Bill Murray the Miller is now dead.
Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~
@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
Thus, not only is his ability, if true, unworthy of mayoral protection, we won't even be sure that he can reveal himself as a townie beyond doubt.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
On October 30 2010 14:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: watch the mafia keep grasping at straws to try to make me look bad and red when I've done more to show i'm town than anyone in this game
and then they want to vote for pandain lololol
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
you couldn't keep your cool to refrain from insulting the shit out of me whenever you could
can we truly trust anything you say since your inention was clearly to make me angry and upset
On October 30 2010 18:15 orgolove wrote: DoctorHelvetica's Candidacy: Orgoloves "reality"
Just step back, and take a look. Forget all personal feelings, and just look at the facts.
We are trying to vote for a mayor of the town. The chosen will:
Kill one person of his choice immediately at the end of the first day
have increased voting power for each subsequent lynches
near invincibility to night kills thanks to the presence of bodyguards
Night kill invincibility is not a huge concern for a mafia, the first two powers are the ones we are really concerned with. Invincibility to night kills, however, is something the mafia really worry about since having a townie it in it, much less a mostly confirmed one is a disaster. For them.
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
It is hardly a disaster to elect mafia in this game. In fact there are multiple scenarios in which it could benefit the town. This isn't a point I'm trying to make against you. The true power of a mafia mayor comes not from the day 1 lynch (a mafia mayor is most likely to choose the candidate the town wants to avoid pressure/disagreement that could paint him red), but from the increased voting power at the end of the game. Mafia can control bandwagons easier and achieve LYLO faster. 2 increased voting power is an effective mafia increase of 1. A mafia mayor invites role checks and will probably be inducted into the town circle, an immense amount of pressure is placed on him.
When Artanis announced that rolechecks reveal alignment even of the mayor I figured someone would drop out of the race and that person would be a nervous mafia afraid of the pressure. Since that hasn't happened I can only assume that the mafia is a very experienced/ballsy candidate (I admit I fit this bill) or someone who is losing in the polls anyway and is just going to stay in for fear of suspicion.
DrH's candidacy hinges on two points.
His claim that his role is extremely important - so much so that his role deserves the extra protection afforded to the mayor. I would say that yes, my role is very useful and that protection can help me perform critical coordination of blues. I can constantly confirm my role to people throughout the game (Not just Day 1) and there are various ways I have shown it can be proven if, say, my poke actually infects somebody or not, both of which are concerns of the town.
It has also been demonstrated by me that if my confirmations are made up, I would have to consistently out scumbuddies. This is a scenario where me as a mafia mayor benefits town immensely in the late game.
His claim that he is not a red, and that he will roleclaim without a shadow of doubt after the first day. Well not being a red is definitely important and I will use my confirmation power every night unless it is proven to be an insane role that infects people with M-Rus
To support his first point, he revealed that his role is "Mr Sticky," a role that allows him to "poke" someone as his night action. If his claim is correct, he will then know if the target has Murrayitis.
Not Mr Sticky, but yes this is true. To make the mechanics as clear as possible.
I poke someone at night. If the person DOES NOT have murrayitis they receive a poke and are told "You have been poked by DoctorHelvetica"
If the person DOES have murrayitis they receive no message and I know they have murrayitis.
On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity.
His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is.
I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky.
sticky is a stick
I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker.
On October 29 2010 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Murrayitis Mechanics. The amount of people infected with Murrayitis is posted at the start of the day. Murrayitis is transferred if a carrier is visited, or visits someone during the night. Doctors can cure someone from Murrayitis. While Plague Doctors can cure and transfer immunity to someone with Murrayitis. If over half of the Game has Murrayitis, every carrier of Murrayitis dies.
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
Just to remind everyone, this is an impossibility. Since my poke goes through under my name, it is my ability.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
The easy way to confirm is this is for plague doctors to check the people I poke and see if they turn out infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote: I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray.
On October 13 2010 13:02 BrownBear wrote:
Night 3
It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.
Bill Murray the Miller is now dead.
Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims.
I seriously doubt there are clues in a previous games clueless day post to the true nature of my role. While it is obvious my role is inspired by this post, I think the most likely scenario is the one where Artanis was truthful in his role description. All possibilities must be considered, but we could have fun doing this to anybody and it doesn't really make me look bad, it just adds an extra degree of uncertainty.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on...VERY LIKELY? That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think we should be making conclusions about someones role, that supercede their role PM and description, based on metagaming and individual interpretations of the storyline of a previous game. Does this really seem like the sound and solid reasoning that helps the town? Is this the sort of logic that will "destroy my platform"? I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd and I'm calling it out. Then DrH pretends to be notified.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
And the storyline of my role is that with Bill Murray's death I was given new life and immunity to his disease. This is a very basic interpretation and it appears to be the one of Artanis, who is, by the way, the mod of this game. Not you. Your entirely subjective speculation about what my name could or couldn't mean in the vague context of a previous game is utterly USELESS especially given the fact that the possibility of myself being a plaguebearer can be checked. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible for me to currently be infected with M-Rus since the day post says NO ONE IS INFECTED WITH M-RUS.
Did we forget that? Currently, no one is a plaguebearer. This makes me think the role that spreads the disease is something like a mad scientist type role. He isn't infected per se, but has the ability to infect others. This is speculation on my part, but for now the safest assumption is that no one has M-Rus.
To jump from not really knowing anything about it to accusing me of being the M-Rus spreader when my role seems to be designed to everything but it, I have told a few ways in which this can be counteracted, I have offered my life to the town and the lives of those I confirm to in the case that I die and flip mafia, AND the fact that all of this speculation is based on "what if" dream scenarios and previous storylines I think it's safe to say that it is a pretty far out accusation. At best.
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet.
However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
You put the word PERSON in there yourself. You inserted that. That's not what Artanis said. That SCREAAAAAAAAAMS wordplay trickery to me.
If Artanis says no one is infect by M-Rus, why can't that mean no one is infected by M-Rus. So because no one is infected by M-Rus, I'm infected by M-Rus? Ridiculous. What should he have said? "No one and a stick has M-Rus yet?" This is baseless bullshit designed to make me look bad. That's all that is. This is garbage.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~
This is true. I suppose if I were infected my reds only to have them immunized this would be an advantageous play if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to publicly out them and the pattern would be clear pretty quickly, leading to a swift kill of the entire mafia.
The issue with me being mafia is that no matter what happens I've put myself in a position where I must reveal my team to you over the course of the game while being put in a negligible position of power. This is not a rational mafia play which, all things considered, is pretty easy to see.
@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all.
Nothing is 100% in this game aside from whatever it is somebody flips at death. Unless there is a good neighbor type role, I still feel I have done the most to confirm myself to you guys as being pro-town. It's too bad the mafia have come out to smear me.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
I suppose there are an infinite number of scenarios in a game where we don't know somebodies role. I don't think endless hypothetical situations are really a point against me, but this is a good point.
The thing is, we know exactly how many plague-bearers there are at the beginning of each day. Again in this situation, I still have to out members of my team with my confirmation power and I've again made a terrible play for the mafia. If the mafia have plague doctors, then it is unlikely that mafia are the source of infection. I would say impossible. They would merely infect themselves and then immunize themselves and watch M-Rus take over the town and win the game. This is a bullshit scenario.
Thus, not only is his ability, if true, unworthy of mayoral protection, we won't even be sure that he can reveal himself as a townie beyond doubt.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
Because you hurt my feelings by calling me a liar when you couldn't back it up and insulting me for modding a game which I put a lot of work and my life into and that despite the mistakes I feel proud of. I think anyone could understand why that would upset me.
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
On October 30 2010 14:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: watch the mafia keep grasping at straws to try to make me look bad and red when I've done more to show i'm town than anyone in this game
and then they want to vote for pandain lololol
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
You merely questioned me? I like how you point out some of the things I said to you (which you never properly defended or refuted, because you can't) and then put it all in a big nice post of bullshit to make me look bad. This is called a chainsaw defense. Defending yourself by attacking your offender.
Why don't I point out the specific parts where you called me a liar based on misunderstandings and then ducked out of the spotlight? Because I'd like to get specific with my criticism, it'd be nice if you could too.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
Disproved this immediately. You never responded. However note that as soon as you thought I had messed up (because you didn't read the thread properly) you were extremely quick not only to call me "out" on it, but to rub a little dirt in my face and try to make me look as shitty as possible. This is not the post of someone who is interested in finding out the truth, this is the post of someone who wants to make me look like a liar whenever he can. It's all in the word choice.
Here is his response. Note how he responds carefully.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_-
I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor.
Besides, if truly that's all you can do, I can hardly think the ability to check ONE player a day for a disease which doesn't even kill unless it's extensively spread to be the "SUPER IMPORTANT" role that you claimed as your role.
Further, there is no way we will be able to confirm that your stick doesn't infect people - As kingjames has mentioned, if your stick is "dirty," you can simply claim whoever you infected the first night to have "turned up as infected" in your "check". Then you can just let the other blues check on him, further confirming your "innoc
Part 1: insult me
2: discredit my role
3: try to discredit me based on a hypothetical and no real reason or logic
Well, as though that weren't enough this isn't the first time he tried to make me look like a liar and it was AGAIN based on a misunderstanding.
On October 30 2010 09:24 kitaman27 wrote: Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if the Mayor can be role checked, why would a mafia even want to be elected? I suppose there is the possibility of a Godfather or something, but even that role seems like it could be used in better ways.
Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_-
I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it.
Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you.
If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
I can't trust someone who's so "free" with his supposed" facts."
You're bad
He said that after I posted and asked him to confirm it. Why would I "lie" and then ask the mod to confirm my lie as being false immediately afterward. I even went as far as to qualify what I was saying.
I remembered wrong. Good thing I had the good sense to ask artanis to confirm it and qualify my statement before I tried to pass it off as a fact huh?
That's about all I have to say. You want to criticize me based on past games and say I can't be trusted? How about the time where you took it upon yourself to organize a huge spreadsheet of "facts" that were half wrong? Or the part where you called me out on mistakes that I didn't even make.
Or the two times in this thread you called me out on lies I never told.
Or the times all of your "great accusations" were nonsense. Overreaction? No, I'm not overreacting. I smell bullshit and I'm calling it out.
I'm sorry for lashing out. Orgoloves comments about haunted mafia really got under the skin and I was in a bad mood last night due to incredibly painful vomiting and head pain.
The assault on my platform so to speak consists only of hypothetical loopholes, WIFOM's, bad metagaming, and assaults on my character. This is not the cool deconstruction of a scum mayors lies, it's the nervous smear campaign of a mafia team that isn't winning the election and doesn't like it.
I would also urge the town to stay away from extreme hypothetical situations. Yes all possibilities must be considered, but this is INSANE mafia right?
It has been used many times as a point. "Well this is Insane Mafia, your role could change! You could be the M-Rus spreader and not even know it! Your role could have some hidden negative effect!"
This is one of the worst arguments I've ever seen. Why? Because it applies to literally everyone in this game. Guess what, you have to deal with a small degree of uncertainty. We can use this empty argument to post holes in just about anything.
But I thought you can 100% confirm yourself
Well if my role description is indeed correct and not some INSANE lie for INSANE MAFIA, then yes I can. The person who is poked, knows I poked them, and it is confirmed to them my role of sticky. Does this 100% confirm I'm town? Well it doesn't say "The blue DoctorHelvetica has poked you" so I'm afraid not. Agian, I feel I've given town reason to believe I'm town moreso than other candidates and the attempts in this thread to poke holes in me and make me look red have been pretty bad so far.
Regardless, we don't know the role list, we don't know if there are other hidden mechanics, we don't know what else could be in this game. We know what we are (or at least we think we do) and that's really the best we can do.
The best I can do is act the way I feel is right based on what I know my role to be. If Artanis deceived me somehow, I feel that is a solvable problem. But don't forget, it's a bad argument and it is completely useless in the context of a game where it applies to every player.
On October 31 2010 01:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: Mmmk, Dr.H, I did feel it was necessary for you to address the constructive post that orgolove made, because it can cause for good discussion. I would, however, like the whole argument over personal attacking to stop. I got sucked into it, but I'm hoping to also aid in the end of it. I would hate to see modkills over arguments. The past is the past, and we don't want another Pandain/Bill Murray incident on our hands. God forbid we make the next town suffer from orgolove-atoma or Dr.H Disease O_o
I agree, but it's something that happened and I want to make it clear what made me incensed. I think it's sort of silly for orgolove to criticize me for being emotional when he himself provoked it
On October 31 2010 01:01 DCLXVI wrote: Fishball - I still think that you are safe enough within your circle [What? Elaborate, not a blanket statement. If you seriously bring up that Medic/Mayor question again, I'll lose it]
and I would rather have you as a back up leader since we cannot be sure of the security of your circle. [I think I know what you mean, but if you compare the first sentence and this, it doesn't really make sense at all. "You're safe in the circle! But we can't trust the security of the circle!"]
once a few people die in it we can scrutinize the few remaining for a mafia. [This was already briefly discussed on page 29 and 30.]
I still don't understand why all of you don't want to reveal yourselves. If there is a mafia in the circle - highly likely I think - then the mafia knows all of you anyways. [Possible Mafia in the circle would means he know who are the members, but not their respective roles and abilities. Are you implying we should come out with our roles and abilities, or just simply requesting everyone in the circle to come out? If it is the former, then that would be retarded. If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here]
You are just withholding information from the town for what purpose? [Withholding what information? If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above. Besides that, the only thing I'm "withholding" now is my role. What else do you want?]
My response in red. To be honest, you're either Mafia trying to discredit me, or your reading comprehension is just bad, which baffles me. Even though your post is longer compared to some other players, the points made (at the very least, to me) are either weak, or have been discussed before. Your post falls into this category.
there are a lot of these posts that say nothing with rhetoric designed to make the player look bad without really saying anything that can be thrown back in terms of rebuttal
On October 31 2010 01:01 DCLXVI wrote: Fishball - I still think that you are safe enough within your circle [What? Elaborate, not a blanket statement. If you seriously bring up that Medic/Mayor question again, I'll lose it]
and I would rather have you as a back up leader since we cannot be sure of the security of your circle. [I think I know what you mean, but if you compare the first sentence and this, it doesn't really make sense at all. "You're safe in the circle! But we can't trust the security of the circle!"]
once a few people die in it we can scrutinize the few remaining for a mafia. [This was already briefly discussed on page 29 and 30.]
I still don't understand why all of you don't want to reveal yourselves. If there is a mafia in the circle - highly likely I think - then the mafia knows all of you anyways. [Possible Mafia in the circle would means he know who are the members, but not their respective roles and abilities. Are you implying we should come out with our roles and abilities, or just simply requesting everyone in the circle to come out? If it is the former, then that would be retarded. If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here]
You are just withholding information from the town for what purpose? [Withholding what information? If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above. Besides that, the only thing I'm "withholding" now is my role. What else do you want?]
My response in red. To be honest, you're either Mafia trying to discredit me, or your reading comprehension is just bad, which baffles me. Even though your post is longer compared to some other players, the points made (at the very least, to me) are either weak, or have been discussed before. Your post falls into this category.
I think what he meant in the first two points was that he believes that your safety in the circle won't be compromised if you aren't Mayor, but we cannot fully trust the circle itself if you are Mayor. At least that's what I got out of it.
You are withholding more than just your role. You are withholding who the members of the circle are. We don't necessarily need to know their roles, but we need to know that the circle exists. If there is scum in the circle (which you yourself have admitted you think there probably is), then all of the Mafia already know that the circle exists, and they know who every member in the circle is. On the other hand, the town is completely left in the dark about whether or not the circle exists because nobody in it has stepped forward.
What you are essentially doing is keeping information away from the town that the Mafia probably already has.
this is a good point. I made the point earlier that the entirety of the mafia is aware of the circle and its members, thus there is really no reason not to be forward about it. i agree with what you're saying entirely
On October 31 2010 05:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: One thing I want to point out:
On October 31 2010 05:01 Kenpachi wrote: ##Elect DoctorHelvetica
From voting thread. Kenpachi has not posted once since the game started. Let's keep a closer eye on lurkers than we did in Haunted.
I started a list of lurkers but it's as home, if a list isn't posted by 8 or so tonigh when I get home I'll post mine.
Another quick reason why to vote for doc, he's already stated his day one lynch would be youngminii who so far has been the scummiest player.
I no longer feel youngminii is the scummiest.
In fact I would like to hear from every townie who their #1 suspect is of scum, if they have one at all. I would like to hear other peoples opinions. There has been a lot of campaign shitflinging and very little scumhunting of any sort. I don't think the mafia feel very pressured right now.
your posting is funny and cute but honestly at this point you are shitting up the thread. I'm requesting that you please stop, no one wants to wade through a bunch of your spam and god forbid someone take your current nonsense seriously.
TBH I'm more interested in pressuring them into talking than actually pointing FoS at them.
not the smartest thing to say imo :3
In Mafia XXXI, we had a huge number of people either: 1) posting but without real content 2) posting hardly at all which hindered proper analysis. Like jcarlsoniv said, we need to keep a much better eye on lurkers. I'm not sure why you think that's not smart.
also, 1) posting but without real content this is a hint
.... ok i'll stop posting. i'll post whenever i die to say bai.
just answering this though:
so saying that you want to pressure em into posting is smart?
just saying what he said before that sentence was enough, this just meant "hey, please post now, i'll read your post 100 times to see if i can find information in it"
versus letting them lurk and having mafia slip through the cracks of inactivity, yes it is smart. a mafia under no pressure can sit back and watch town kill eachother, it's ideal.
On October 31 2010 06:29 Fishball wrote: We've had similar roles in previous games before. Basically a role that gets an extra vote, and would show up anonymously as "elder".
To be quite bold, I don't like the band wagon you're getting. There are quite a few players that have voted for you, I consider "suspicious" in my books.
My only defense is that the last time I was a scum mayor I specifically ordered the mafia to create a "close win" and have me win by 1 or 2 votes.
Doubtlessly there are mafia in this bandwagon though.
TBH I'm more interested in pressuring them into talking than actually pointing FoS at them.
not the smartest thing to say imo :3
In Mafia XXXI, we had a huge number of people either: 1) posting but without real content 2) posting hardly at all which hindered proper analysis. Like jcarlsoniv said, we need to keep a much better eye on lurkers. I'm not sure why you think that's not smart.
also, 1) posting but without real content this is a hint
.... ok i'll stop posting. i'll post whenever i die to say bai.
just answering this though:
so saying that you want to pressure em into posting is smart?
just saying what he said before that sentence was enough, this just meant "hey, please post now, i'll read your post 100 times to see if i can find information in it"
versus letting them lurk and having mafia slip through the cracks of inactivity, yes it is smart. a mafia under no pressure can sit back and watch town kill eachother, it's ideal.
wtf is wrong with you, i facepalmed
saying the part of your plan that should stay in your head out in the open is stupid fuck sorry couldn't hold it
What are you talking about? Why is it bad to pressure/force inactives to post? Why would we want people to just stay inactive and get away with it when mafia can just hide amongsts them and never get pressured...
Glasse you are playing this game extremely different than Haunted Mafia in which you are a town aligned blue role. In that game you were very helpful and honest about what you were doing. Now you are antagonistic, refuse to explain anything about what you say, and have taken the mind boggling position that town shouldn't pressure inactives.
On October 31 2010 06:29 Fishball wrote: We've had similar roles in previous games before. Basically a role that gets an extra vote, and would show up anonymously as "elder".
To be quite bold, I don't like the band wagon you're getting. There are quite a few players that have voted for you, I consider "suspicious" in my books.
My only defense is that the last time I was a scum mayor I specifically ordered the mafia to create a "close win" and have me win by 1 or 2 votes.
Doubtlessly there are mafia in this bandwagon though.
On October 31 2010 06:27 Glasse wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:22 Glasse wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:14 infinitestory wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:08 Glasse wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:08 infinitestory wrote:
TBH I'm more interested in pressuring them into talking than actually pointing FoS at them.
not the smartest thing to say imo :3
In Mafia XXXI, we had a huge number of people either: 1) posting but without real content 2) posting hardly at all which hindered proper analysis. Like jcarlsoniv said, we need to keep a much better eye on lurkers. I'm not sure why you think that's not smart.
also, 1) posting but without real content this is a hint
.... ok i'll stop posting. i'll post whenever i die to say bai.
just answering this though:
so saying that you want to pressure em into posting is smart?
just saying what he said before that sentence was enough, this just meant "hey, please post now, i'll read your post 100 times to see if i can find information in it"
versus letting them lurk and having mafia slip through the cracks of inactivity, yes it is smart. a mafia under no pressure can sit back and watch town kill eachother, it's ideal.
wtf is wrong with you, i facepalmed
saying the part of your plan that should stay in your head out in the open is stupid fuck sorry couldn't hold it
What are you talking about? Why is it bad to pressure/force inactives to post? Why would we want people to just stay inactive and get away with it when mafia can just hide amongsts them and never get pressured...
Its not! but the "TBH I'm more interested in pressuring them into talking than actually pointing FoS at them." was not needed and may have fucked up his plan. Just suspecting them and saying it was because they were lurking and stuff was enough to make em talk.
I see what you're saying then. Sorry for misunderstanding you there.
On October 31 2010 06:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: My only defense is that the last time I was a scum mayor I specifically ordered the mafia to create a "close win" and have me win by 1 or 2 votes.
Doubtlessly there are mafia in this bandwagon though.
I wasn't actually directing that at you, it was just a comment about certain voters, but since you said "My only defense", I'll have to bite, right?
It was a close win last time, so you ordered Mafia to create a "non-close win" this time to create a diversion! It all makes sense now doesn't it ?
Let the merry-go-round spin on!
Ha, fair enough.
Typically when bandwagons are talked about in mayoral elections I'm seeing it as a soft accusation toward the candidate so I wanted to at least throw that out there. even if you're not accusing me of anything, it is information the mafia can twist and turn into an accusation on me.
I guess being defensive looks bad but I don't think there is any real logic behind a scum mayor creating a landslide win for himself particularly when his post-election strategy would then involve outting the scumteam that voted him in, making the pattern even more clear in the first place.
On October 31 2010 06:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Glasse you are playing this game extremely different than Haunted Mafia in which you are a town aligned blue role. In that game you were very helpful and honest about what you were doing. Now you are antagonistic, refuse to explain anything about what you say, and have taken the mind boggling position that town shouldn't pressure inactives.
What is up with that?
It was my first game, i can't try something different? I was planning on being the same but that's no fun for me :3.
Unfortunately it looks like you are going to win the election... which could mean that if you think i'm red you will lynch me(I think thats how it works). This is also not fun.
I think playing the random/stupid/troll player is fun.
Btw, changing the way I play is a way to make you and others unable to analyse my playstyle like you are trying to do right now.
I'm pretty sure through my whole "shitting the thread up" part i've been honest, probably not as helpful though, but not having clues is part of that, if you go read my posts back there its mostly about clues I loved to analyse profiles and stuff.
Also i did not say town should not pressure inactive, you just don't get what i'm trying to explain :3
I actually don't think you're red at all. I have an idea in my head about why you're playing the way you are and I actually feel quite safe about it. Although I don't like the spamming ;o
I had you on my list of possible reds for a while when you first started posting erratically but after further examination I'm less inclined to believe that is the case.
On October 31 2010 06:29 Fishball wrote: We've had similar roles in previous games before. Basically a role that gets an extra vote, and would show up anonymously as "elder".
To be quite bold, I don't like the band wagon you're getting. There are quite a few players that have voted for you, I consider "suspicious" in my books.
My only defense is that the last time I was a scum mayor I specifically ordered the mafia to create a "close win" and have me win by 1 or 2 votes.
That's pretty meta. And wasn't there a certain Dr who said we should stop using meta in arguments?
I'm ok with using meta when it's about the game itself and not something as far fetched as interpretations of the games storyline.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
I like how none of the players who voted for you are on that list
None of the players who voted me have I felt may be scum from their posting history.
Kenpachi, Hyperbola, Veldril, and I believe Cubedin have been inactive in this thread to my distaste. Veldril and CubEdIn were both pretty inactive in Haunted Mafia where they were both town. I'm slightly more worried about Hyperbola and Kenpachi in this case.
However, I'd rather lynch an active mafia suspect for now than an inactive one.
I previously suspected Meapak_Ziphh but I don't really have a feeling for him on my radar now.
To be clear, I'm talking about lynch considerations and not people I suspect who may be mafia, so I'm not including inactives who have voted for me. I am sure that between kenpachi, hyperbola, veldril, cubedin, and whatever other inactives voted for mere there are 1 or 2 mafia hiding in the bandwagon.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
I like how none of the players who voted for you are on that list
DrH, is there a particular reason you suspect youngminii and not Kenpachi nor SiNiquity?
I'm talking about suspicions based on post behavior purely. The inactives who voted in my bandwagon are on my radar, but I'm not considering them for a day 1 lynch.
Artanis told me he would like my top 3 candidates rather than my 1st. There are situations in which my top candidate may not be lynched and he would have to default to second choice.
I think this would be information I should share with the town.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
I like how none of the players who voted for you are on that list
DrH, is there a particular reason you suspect youngminii and not Kenpachi nor SiNiquity?
I'm talking about suspicions based on post behavior purely. The inactives who voted in my bandwagon are on my radar, but I'm not considering them for a day 1 lynch.
Youngminii and SiNiquity have virtually identical posting histories in this thread, though.
Could you show me SiNiquitys similar post? I remember Young's post because I called him out on it but I don't actually recall any of SiN's posts.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
you put in that list those people who you had personal conflict with and has nothing to do with the whole town. Typical Mafia action type. Since you most likely gona be mayor, it would said no more but the way you play the role is mostly "for your own goods" and i have to admitt that i dont like it.
Its either gona be just like last game where you are mafia and accuse me for having mafia action or you are planing to kill 5 people base on the fact that you DONT LIKE them. oh well
I never had a conflict with youngminii, we voted for the same candidate !!!
Who do you suspect of being scum outside of that. I'm willing to listen to your list of suspects but right now it just looks like you're defending them and yourself by attacking me ;o
On October 31 2010 07:09 Ace wrote: Just because some of them heavily disagreed with you doesn't mean you should lynch them. It's Day 1, you don't have any information beyond your suspicions. Don't lynch an active player unless they've done something extremely scummy to the point that most of the town can agree on it.
Of your 5 listed players:
Youngminii and NB are the most suspect to me. Youngminii for his vote with no early explanation in the game and his inactivity ever since, and NB for that alarming post he made about 10? pages back. Other than that the rest of those posters are active and you'd be making a big mistake lynching any of them. If they are active and you suspect them to be Scum you can always trap them later.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
I like how none of the players who voted for you are on that list
DrH, is there a particular reason you suspect youngminii and not Kenpachi nor SiNiquity?
I'm talking about suspicions based on post behavior purely. The inactives who voted in my bandwagon are on my radar, but I'm not considering them for a day 1 lynch.
Youngminii and SiNiquity have virtually identical posting histories in this thread, though.
Could you show me SiNiquitys similar post? I remember Young's post because I called him out on it but I don't actually recall any of SiN's posts.
That's because he only has one, same as youngminii.
On October 30 2010 11:19 SiNiquity wrote: Mayor gets extra vote (meh) + protection (neat). And a kill on day 1 (eh). So strong blue role should be mayor right, and Dr. H. is the strongest I've seen posted.
Alright, I didn't catch that. SiNiquity is the kind of player who usually has an analysis of some sort to post as well, but I do remember him being largely inactive at the beginning of brownbears mafia.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
Lol, bring it. I just love how your entire decision making regarding possible lynch targets have been guided by your personal grudge, irregardless of the actual facts at hand. You'll eat your words.
See here people. As early as a day ago, DrH proclaimed that if chosen as a mayor, he'll be lynching youngminii based on his posting actions. But now he has immediately switched to the most persistent critic that "dare question a TL veteran."
Are you seriously going to elect a guy who so openly flaunts his lack of judgment? Who's to say he won't target the next critic of his reign, all the way until there's no town left?
And are you seriously going to elect a "Mr Sticky," whose role has no direct applications to scumhunting? Even the best scenario he himself brings forth involves 1. multiple people being truthful and trustworthy 2. the same group of people remaining coordinated OVER TWO DAYS
And all that to confirm what? that ONE guy had the disease, which still won't do any harm unless the mafia's practically won the game.
There has to be a better role to be suitable as position of a mayor.
On October 31 2010 07:09 Ace wrote: Youngminii for his vote with no early explanation in the game and his inactivity ever since, and NB for that alarming post he made about 10? pages back.
On October 30 2010 12:13 NB wrote: so we have 3 main candidates: Panda, dish, doctor... Who of you will promise to protect me from scums? :3
This one is one of the reasons I'm a bit leery of NB's intentions. What exactly is motivating him to seek cover from the Mafia, and what incentive is there to oblige him?
He means this post
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
Lol, bring it. I just love how your entire decision making regarding possible lynch targets have been guided by your personal grudge, irregardless of the actual facts at hand. You'll eat your words.
Not at all. There are players that have grilled me just as much and to much better effect than you. The difference is I don't think they are scum. You don't threaten me, you just reek of scum.
If you want to talk about the nastiness of personal grudges how about the one that leads you to insult me twice in a row even though Artanis told you to stop once? Hypocrite.
See here people. As early as a day ago, DrH proclaimed that if chosen as a mayor, he'll be lynching youngminii based on his posting actions. But now he has immediately switched to the most persistent critic that "dare question a TL veteran."
Worst argument ever. So I shouldn't ever change my mind in light of new information? In light of the game continuing on and better candidates presenting themselves? Don't be absurd. This "point" is trash.
Are you seriously going to elect a guy who so openly flaunts his lack of judgment? Who's to say he won't target the next critic of his reign, all the way until there's no town left?
Because I can only decide the day 1 lynch and I have no killing power :D
And are you seriously going to elect a "Mr Sticky," just sticky, not mr sticky whose role has no direct applications to scumhunting? Even the best scenario he himself brings forth involves 1. multiple people being truthful and trustworthy Not really, just myself and it would be very easy to catch me in a lie. 2. the same group of people remaining coordinated OVER TWO DAYS What do you mean by this? Plague doctors?
And all that to confirm what? that ONE guy had the disease, which still won't do any harm unless the mafia's practically won the game.
So lets just let the plague happen no big deal right?
There has to be a better role to be suitable as position of a mayor.
That is very well possible, but it looks like I'm being elected. Blame the voters not me.
I also like that you didn't respond to my post a few pages back where I completely obliterated your terrible "criticism".
On October 31 2010 07:09 Ace wrote: Just because some of them heavily disagreed with you doesn't mean you should lynch them. It's Day 1, you don't have any information beyond your suspicions. Don't lynch an active player unless they've done something extremely scummy to the point that most of the town can agree on it.
Of your 5 listed players:
Youngminii and NB are the most suspect to me. Youngminii for his vote with no early explanation in the game and his inactivity ever since, and NB for that alarming post he made about 10? pages back. Other than that the rest of those posters are active and you'd be making a big mistake lynching any of them. If they are active and you suspect them to be Scum you can always trap them later.
So lynch an inactive like Kenpachi you think?
Meapak_Ziphh would definitely be in my top 3 picks.
Interesting. I wonder if the same post raised a flag for you as well as me.
On October 30 2010 05:03 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm unvoting Pandain, I originally voted for him as a safety net in case I couldn't post. Then I decided to leave my vote with him because I felt a bandwagon was forming around Fishball and I really don't feel safe with a mayor with that much power. Now I'm unvoting Pandain because a bandwagon has formed around him in a rather suprising manner, most people are simply saying they don't want to vote for fishball therefor they are voting for Pandain. As Dr. H pointed out this is pretty suspicious. Another thing I've noticed is that of the three candidates Pandain is campaigning the least, he's even gone so far as to support Fishball. I don't know what this means but it doesn't make me confident regarding Pandain's leadership, if he wants to be mayor he should be actively promoting himself.
There's plenty of time to vote for mayor so I'm going to think long and hard about this. Dr. H is looking pretty good right now but I may go back to Pandain depending on how Dr. H's candidacy changes things.
On October 31 2010 07:16 kitaman27 wrote: I'm open to hearing why I am the 4th scummiest person on your list if you would like to provide a reason DrH.
It's a bit meta, admittedly. Your insistence on pushing a scenario that is pretty far out and meta in an extremely subjective sense struck me as strange considering your mostly logical play in Haunted Mafia.
I am more interested in seeing how you play the rest of the game rather than lynching you.
But you're on my radar so to speak. There are so many numerous tells and Day 1 scumhunting is very weak compared to how well it can be done later in the game so I wouldn't worry too much tbh.
I have a strong feeling about orgolove but I fear I might be blinded by personal bias. I would urge the town to read my latest post in response to him and my previous post here and offer what they think of him as a candidate. If it is unsatisfactory, I'll lynch an inactive voter.
The question is who.
Divineks inactivity strikes me as a bit strange, I'd think he'd be jumping in arguments like this considering the way he plays. He's a smart player who loves to analyse. This is reminding me a bit of how he played haunted mafia which was very low-key and pro-town.
CubEdIn or Kenpachi would be another fair choice.
Here was my post in response to Orgoloves huge dissertation about how awful I am which no one ignored (thanks to Glasse's spam :p)
On October 30 2010 18:15 orgolove wrote: DoctorHelvetica's Candidacy: Orgoloves "reality"
Just step back, and take a look. Forget all personal feelings, and just look at the facts.
We are trying to vote for a mayor of the town. The chosen will:
Kill one person of his choice immediately at the end of the first day
have increased voting power for each subsequent lynches
near invincibility to night kills thanks to the presence of bodyguards
Night kill invincibility is not a huge concern for a mafia, the first two powers are the ones we are really concerned with. Invincibility to night kills, however, is something the mafia really worry about since having a townie it in it, much less a mostly confirmed one is a disaster. For them.
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
It is hardly a disaster to elect mafia in this game. In fact there are multiple scenarios in which it could benefit the town. This isn't a point I'm trying to make against you. The true power of a mafia mayor comes not from the day 1 lynch (a mafia mayor is most likely to choose the candidate the town wants to avoid pressure/disagreement that could paint him red), but from the increased voting power at the end of the game. Mafia can control bandwagons easier and achieve LYLO faster. 2 increased voting power is an effective mafia increase of 1. A mafia mayor invites role checks and will probably be inducted into the town circle, an immense amount of pressure is placed on him.
When Artanis announced that rolechecks reveal alignment even of the mayor I figured someone would drop out of the race and that person would be a nervous mafia afraid of the pressure. Since that hasn't happened I can only assume that the mafia is a very experienced/ballsy candidate (I admit I fit this bill) or someone who is losing in the polls anyway and is just going to stay in for fear of suspicion.
DrH's candidacy hinges on two points.
His claim that his role is extremely important - so much so that his role deserves the extra protection afforded to the mayor. I would say that yes, my role is very useful and that protection can help me perform critical coordination of blues. I can constantly confirm my role to people throughout the game (Not just Day 1) and there are various ways I have shown it can be proven if, say, my poke actually infects somebody or not, both of which are concerns of the town.
It has also been demonstrated by me that if my confirmations are made up, I would have to consistently out scumbuddies. This is a scenario where me as a mafia mayor benefits town immensely in the late game.
His claim that he is not a red, and that he will roleclaim without a shadow of doubt after the first day. Well not being a red is definitely important and I will use my confirmation power every night unless it is proven to be an insane role that infects people with M-Rus
To support his first point, he revealed that his role is "Mr Sticky," a role that allows him to "poke" someone as his night action. If his claim is correct, he will then know if the target has Murrayitis.
Not Mr Sticky, but yes this is true. To make the mechanics as clear as possible.
I poke someone at night. If the person DOES NOT have murrayitis they receive a poke and are told "You have been poked by DoctorHelvetica"
If the person DOES have murrayitis they receive no message and I know they have murrayitis.
On October 30 2010 13:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:40 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity.
His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is.
I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky.
sticky is a stick
I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker.
Remember the mechanic of Murrayitis:
On October 29 2010 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Murrayitis Mechanics. The amount of people infected with Murrayitis is posted at the start of the day. Murrayitis is transferred if a carrier is visited, or visits someone during the night. Doctors can cure someone from Murrayitis. While Plague Doctors can cure and transfer immunity to someone with Murrayitis. If over half of the Game has Murrayitis, every carrier of Murrayitis dies.
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
Just to remind everyone, this is an impossibility. Since my poke goes through under my name, it is my ability.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
The easy way to confirm is this is for plague doctors to check the people I poke and see if they turn out infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote: I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray.
On October 13 2010 13:02 BrownBear wrote:
Night 3
It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.
Bill Murray the Miller is now dead.
Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims.
I seriously doubt there are clues in a previous games clueless day post to the true nature of my role. While it is obvious my role is inspired by this post, I think the most likely scenario is the one where Artanis was truthful in his role description. All possibilities must be considered, but we could have fun doing this to anybody and it doesn't really make me look bad, it just adds an extra degree of uncertainty.
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on...VERY LIKELY? That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think we should be making conclusions about someones role, that supercede their role PM and description, based on metagaming and individual interpretations of the storyline of a previous game. Does this really seem like the sound and solid reasoning that helps the town? Is this the sort of logic that will "destroy my platform"? I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd and I'm calling it out. Then DrH pretends to be notified.
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
And the storyline of my role is that with Bill Murray's death I was given new life and immunity to his disease. This is a very basic interpretation and it appears to be the one of Artanis, who is, by the way, the mod of this game. Not you. Your entirely subjective speculation about what my name could or couldn't mean in the vague context of a previous game is utterly USELESS especially given the fact that the possibility of myself being a plaguebearer can be checked. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible for me to currently be infected with M-Rus since the day post says NO ONE IS INFECTED WITH M-RUS.
Did we forget that? Currently, no one is a plaguebearer. This makes me think the role that spreads the disease is something like a mad scientist type role. He isn't infected per se, but has the ability to infect others. This is speculation on my part, but for now the safest assumption is that no one has M-Rus.
To jump from not really knowing anything about it to accusing me of being the M-Rus spreader when my role seems to be designed to everything but it, I have told a few ways in which this can be counteracted, I have offered my life to the town and the lives of those I confirm to in the case that I die and flip mafia, AND the fact that all of this speculation is based on "what if" dream scenarios and previous storylines I think it's safe to say that it is a pretty far out accusation. At best.
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet.
However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
You put the word PERSON in there yourself. You inserted that. That's not what Artanis said. That SCREAAAAAAAAAMS wordplay trickery to me.
If Artanis says no one is infect by M-Rus, why can't that mean no one is infected by M-Rus. So because no one is infected by M-Rus, I'm infected by M-Rus? Ridiculous. What should he have said? "No one and a stick has M-Rus yet?" This is baseless bullshit designed to make me look bad. That's all that is. This is garbage.
On October 30 2010 14:27 infinitestory wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:20 Coagulation wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~
This is true. I suppose if I were infected my reds only to have them immunized this would be an advantageous play if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to publicly out them and the pattern would be clear pretty quickly, leading to a swift kill of the entire mafia.
The issue with me being mafia is that no matter what happens I've put myself in a position where I must reveal my team to you over the course of the game while being put in a negligible position of power. This is not a rational mafia play which, all things considered, is pretty easy to see.
@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all.
Nothing is 100% in this game aside from whatever it is somebody flips at death. Unless there is a good neighbor type role, I still feel I have done the most to confirm myself to you guys as being pro-town. It's too bad the mafia have come out to smear me.
On October 30 2010 14:44 Ace wrote: That doesn't confirm your alignment though
On October 30 2010 14:59 orgolove wrote: -_-
On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
I suppose there are an infinite number of scenarios in a game where we don't know somebodies role. I don't think endless hypothetical situations are really a point against me, but this is a good point.
The thing is, we know exactly how many plague-bearers there are at the beginning of each day. Again in this situation, I still have to out members of my team with my confirmation power and I've again made a terrible play for the mafia. If the mafia have plague doctors, then it is unlikely that mafia are the source of infection. I would say impossible. They would merely infect themselves and then immunize themselves and watch M-Rus take over the town and win the game. This is a bullshit scenario.
Thus, not only is his ability, if true, unworthy of mayoral protection, we won't even be sure that he can reveal himself as a townie beyond doubt.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
Because you hurt my feelings by calling me a liar when you couldn't back it up and insulting me for modding a game which I put a lot of work and my life into and that despite the mistakes I feel proud of. I think anyone could understand why that would upset me.
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
On October 30 2010 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: fair enough. I'm not the one starting the WIFOM bullshit.
On October 30 2010 14:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: watch the mafia keep grasping at straws to try to make me look bad and red when I've done more to show i'm town than anyone in this game
and then they want to vote for pandain lololol
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
You merely questioned me? I like how you point out some of the things I said to you (which you never properly defended or refuted, because you can't) and then put it all in a big nice post of bullshit to make me look bad. This is called a chainsaw defense. Defending yourself by attacking your offender.
Why don't I point out the specific parts where you called me a liar based on misunderstandings and then ducked out of the spotlight? Because I'd like to get specific with my criticism, it'd be nice if you could too.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
Disproved this immediately. You never responded. However note that as soon as you thought I had messed up (because you didn't read the thread properly) you were extremely quick not only to call me "out" on it, but to rub a little dirt in my face and try to make me look as shitty as possible. This is not the post of someone who is interested in finding out the truth, this is the post of someone who wants to make me look like a liar whenever he can. It's all in the word choice.
Here is his response. Note how he responds carefully.
On October 30 2010 14:28 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_-
I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor.
Besides, if truly that's all you can do, I can hardly think the ability to check ONE player a day for a disease which doesn't even kill unless it's extensively spread to be the "SUPER IMPORTANT" role that you claimed as your role.
Further, there is no way we will be able to confirm that your stick doesn't infect people - As kingjames has mentioned, if your stick is "dirty," you can simply claim whoever you infected the first night to have "turned up as infected" in your "check". Then you can just let the other blues check on him, further confirming your "innoc
Part 1: insult me
2: discredit my role
3: try to discredit me based on a hypothetical and no real reason or logic
Well, as though that weren't enough this isn't the first time he tried to make me look like a liar and it was AGAIN based on a misunderstanding.
On October 30 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:54 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:47 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:36 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: [quote] Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_-
I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it.
Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you.
If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
I can't trust someone who's so "free" with his supposed" facts."
You're bad
He said that after I posted and asked him to confirm it. Why would I "lie" and then ask the mod to confirm my lie as being false immediately afterward. I even went as far as to qualify what I was saying.
I remembered wrong. Good thing I had the good sense to ask artanis to confirm it and qualify my statement before I tried to pass it off as a fact huh?
That's about all I have to say. You want to criticize me based on past games and say I can't be trusted? How about the time where you took it upon yourself to organize a huge spreadsheet of "facts" that were half wrong? Or the part where you called me out on mistakes that I didn't even make.
Or the two times in this thread you called me out on lies I never told.
Or the times all of your "great accusations" were nonsense. Overreaction? No, I'm not overreacting. I smell bullshit and I'm calling it out.
On October 31 2010 07:27 Nemesis wrote: Orgolove sounds like veldril last game
Either orgolove is a bad townie or scum, at this point I really can't tell.
In the last game that orgolove was pro-town he was very nice and played an extremely objective game. He dealt only in facts, he messed some up (Not hard to do in such a large game) but pretty much played the role of "numbers guy"
These erratic attacks, intense focus on me, and antagonistic behavior just strikes me as a total 360 spin from how he played before.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
I like how none of the players who voted for you are on that list
DrH, is there a particular reason you suspect youngminii and not Kenpachi nor SiNiquity?
Siniquity and Kenpachi were pretty inactive in mafia, but they turned out to be villagers.
I still don't like how they're lurking though. Maybe consider it as a future lynch target in the future.
Everyone has their own play styles. I've lurked in games before, and have only made my move when the time is right. I'm not commenting on whether lynching and active/inactive player is a good thing or not, but I will never purely base my decision on their activity levels.
Considering how everyone has a power role in this game, this seems like it would be even more likely than in a game with green townies.
The scummiest inactives would be SiNiquity and youngminii because they went out of their way to justify their vote without adding any content to the thread, a strange decision as town.
On October 31 2010 07:32 Ace wrote: Meh. People have different playstyles all the time. Besides if a person has only played one or two, hell even 3 games before that's not enough information to define their meta. Better to just deal with what's happening in the current game and only use meta to guide you in a situation where you strongly believe the person is Scum.
So besides his actions in another game, what reason do you have for lynching Snowba...er I mean orgolove?
You could read my three or so huge posts regarding the subject, you know
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
Lol, bring it. I just love how your entire decision making regarding possible lynch targets have been guided by your personal grudge, irregardless of the actual facts at hand. You'll eat your words.
Not at all. There are players that have grilled me just as much and to much better effect than you. The difference is I don't think they are scum. You don't threaten me, you just reek of scum.
If you want to talk about the nastiness of personal grudges how about the one that leads you to insult me twice in a row even though Artanis told you to stop once? Hypocrite.
See here people. As early as a day ago, DrH proclaimed that if chosen as a mayor, he'll be lynching youngminii based on his posting actions. But now he has immediately switched to the most persistent critic that "dare question a TL veteran."
Worst argument ever. So I shouldn't ever change my mind in light of new information? In light of the game continuing on and better candidates presenting themselves? Don't be absurd. This "point" is trash.
Are you seriously going to elect a guy who so openly flaunts his lack of judgment? Who's to say he won't target the next critic of his reign, all the way until there's no town left?
Because I can only decide the day 1 lynch and I have no killing power :D
And are you seriously going to elect a "Mr Sticky," just sticky, not mr sticky whose role has no direct applications to scumhunting? Even the best scenario he himself brings forth involves 1. multiple people being truthful and trustworthy Not really, just myself and it would be very easy to catch me in a lie. 2. the same group of people remaining coordinated OVER TWO DAYS What do you mean by this? Plague doctors?
And all that to confirm what? that ONE guy had the disease, which still won't do any harm unless the mafia's practically won the game.
So lets just let the plague happen no big deal right?
There has to be a better role to be suitable as position of a mayor.
That is very well possible, but it looks like I'm being elected. Blame the voters not me.
I also like that you didn't respond to my post a few pages back where I completely obliterated your terrible "criticism".
On October 30 2010 18:15 orgolove wrote: DoctorHelvetica's Candidacy: Orgoloves "reality"
Just step back, and take a look. Forget all personal feelings, and just look at the facts.
We are trying to vote for a mayor of the town. The chosen will:
Kill one person of his choice immediately at the end of the first day
have increased voting power for each subsequent lynches
near invincibility to night kills thanks to the presence of bodyguards
Night kill invincibility is not a huge concern for a mafia, the first two powers are the ones we are really concerned with. Invincibility to night kills, however, is something the mafia really worry about since having a townie it in it, much less a mostly confirmed one is a disaster. For them.
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
It is hardly a disaster to elect mafia in this game. In fact there are multiple scenarios in which it could benefit the town. This isn't a point I'm trying to make against you. The true power of a mafia mayor comes not from the day 1 lynch (a mafia mayor is most likely to choose the candidate the town wants to avoid pressure/disagreement that could paint him red), but from the increased voting power at the end of the game. Mafia can control bandwagons easier and achieve LYLO faster. 2 increased voting power is an effective mafia increase of 1. A mafia mayor invites role checks and will probably be inducted into the town circle, an immense amount of pressure is placed on him.
When Artanis announced that rolechecks reveal alignment even of the mayor I figured someone would drop out of the race and that person would be a nervous mafia afraid of the pressure. Since that hasn't happened I can only assume that the mafia is a very experienced/ballsy candidate (I admit I fit this bill) or someone who is losing in the polls anyway and is just going to stay in for fear of suspicion.
DrH's candidacy hinges on two points.
His claim that his role is extremely important - so much so that his role deserves the extra protection afforded to the mayor. I would say that yes, my role is very useful and that protection can help me perform critical coordination of blues. I can constantly confirm my role to people throughout the game (Not just Day 1) and there are various ways I have shown it can be proven if, say, my poke actually infects somebody or not, both of which are concerns of the town.
It has also been demonstrated by me that if my confirmations are made up, I would have to consistently out scumbuddies. This is a scenario where me as a mafia mayor benefits town immensely in the late game.
His claim that he is not a red, and that he will roleclaim without a shadow of doubt after the first day. Well not being a red is definitely important and I will use my confirmation power every night unless it is proven to be an insane role that infects people with M-Rus
To support his first point, he revealed that his role is "Mr Sticky," a role that allows him to "poke" someone as his night action. If his claim is correct, he will then know if the target has Murrayitis.
Not Mr Sticky, but yes this is true. To make the mechanics as clear as possible.
I poke someone at night. If the person DOES NOT have murrayitis they receive a poke and are told "You have been poked by DoctorHelvetica"
If the person DOES have murrayitis they receive no message and I know they have murrayitis.
On October 30 2010 13:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:40 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity.
His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is.
I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky.
sticky is a stick
I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker.
Remember the mechanic of Murrayitis:
On October 29 2010 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Murrayitis Mechanics. The amount of people infected with Murrayitis is posted at the start of the day. Murrayitis is transferred if a carrier is visited, or visits someone during the night. Doctors can cure someone from Murrayitis. While Plague Doctors can cure and transfer immunity to someone with Murrayitis. If over half of the Game has Murrayitis, every carrier of Murrayitis dies.
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
Just to remind everyone, this is an impossibility. Since my poke goes through under my name, it is my ability.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
The easy way to confirm is this is for plague doctors to check the people I poke and see if they turn out infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote: I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray.
On October 13 2010 13:02 BrownBear wrote:
Night 3
It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.
Bill Murray the Miller is now dead.
Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims.
I seriously doubt there are clues in a previous games clueless day post to the true nature of my role. While it is obvious my role is inspired by this post, I think the most likely scenario is the one where Artanis was truthful in his role description. All possibilities must be considered, but we could have fun doing this to anybody and it doesn't really make me look bad, it just adds an extra degree of uncertainty.
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on...VERY LIKELY? That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think we should be making conclusions about someones role, that supercede their role PM and description, based on metagaming and individual interpretations of the storyline of a previous game. Does this really seem like the sound and solid reasoning that helps the town? Is this the sort of logic that will "destroy my platform"? I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd and I'm calling it out. Then DrH pretends to be notified.
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
And the storyline of my role is that with Bill Murray's death I was given new life and immunity to his disease. This is a very basic interpretation and it appears to be the one of Artanis, who is, by the way, the mod of this game. Not you. Your entirely subjective speculation about what my name could or couldn't mean in the vague context of a previous game is utterly USELESS especially given the fact that the possibility of myself being a plaguebearer can be checked. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible for me to currently be infected with M-Rus since the day post says NO ONE IS INFECTED WITH M-RUS.
Did we forget that? Currently, no one is a plaguebearer. This makes me think the role that spreads the disease is something like a mad scientist type role. He isn't infected per se, but has the ability to infect others. This is speculation on my part, but for now the safest assumption is that no one has M-Rus.
To jump from not really knowing anything about it to accusing me of being the M-Rus spreader when my role seems to be designed to everything but it, I have told a few ways in which this can be counteracted, I have offered my life to the town and the lives of those I confirm to in the case that I die and flip mafia, AND the fact that all of this speculation is based on "what if" dream scenarios and previous storylines I think it's safe to say that it is a pretty far out accusation. At best.
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet.
However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
You put the word PERSON in there yourself. You inserted that. That's not what Artanis said. That SCREAAAAAAAAAMS wordplay trickery to me.
If Artanis says no one is infect by M-Rus, why can't that mean no one is infected by M-Rus. So because no one is infected by M-Rus, I'm infected by M-Rus? Ridiculous. What should he have said? "No one and a stick has M-Rus yet?" This is baseless bullshit designed to make me look bad. That's all that is. This is garbage.
On October 30 2010 14:27 infinitestory wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:20 Coagulation wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~
This is true. I suppose if I were infected my reds only to have them immunized this would be an advantageous play if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to publicly out them and the pattern would be clear pretty quickly, leading to a swift kill of the entire mafia.
The issue with me being mafia is that no matter what happens I've put myself in a position where I must reveal my team to you over the course of the game while being put in a negligible position of power. This is not a rational mafia play which, all things considered, is pretty easy to see.
@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all.
Nothing is 100% in this game aside from whatever it is somebody flips at death. Unless there is a good neighbor type role, I still feel I have done the most to confirm myself to you guys as being pro-town. It's too bad the mafia have come out to smear me.
On October 30 2010 14:44 Ace wrote: That doesn't confirm your alignment though
On October 30 2010 14:59 orgolove wrote: -_-
On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
I suppose there are an infinite number of scenarios in a game where we don't know somebodies role. I don't think endless hypothetical situations are really a point against me, but this is a good point.
The thing is, we know exactly how many plague-bearers there are at the beginning of each day. Again in this situation, I still have to out members of my team with my confirmation power and I've again made a terrible play for the mafia. If the mafia have plague doctors, then it is unlikely that mafia are the source of infection. I would say impossible. They would merely infect themselves and then immunize themselves and watch M-Rus take over the town and win the game. This is a bullshit scenario.
Thus, not only is his ability, if true, unworthy of mayoral protection, we won't even be sure that he can reveal himself as a townie beyond doubt.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
Because you hurt my feelings by calling me a liar when you couldn't back it up and insulting me for modding a game which I put a lot of work and my life into and that despite the mistakes I feel proud of. I think anyone could understand why that would upset me.
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
On October 30 2010 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: fair enough. I'm not the one starting the WIFOM bullshit.
On October 30 2010 14:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: watch the mafia keep grasping at straws to try to make me look bad and red when I've done more to show i'm town than anyone in this game
and then they want to vote for pandain lololol
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
You merely questioned me? I like how you point out some of the things I said to you (which you never properly defended or refuted, because you can't) and then put it all in a big nice post of bullshit to make me look bad. This is called a chainsaw defense. Defending yourself by attacking your offender.
Why don't I point out the specific parts where you called me a liar based on misunderstandings and then ducked out of the spotlight? Because I'd like to get specific with my criticism, it'd be nice if you could too.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
Disproved this immediately. You never responded. However note that as soon as you thought I had messed up (because you didn't read the thread properly) you were extremely quick not only to call me "out" on it, but to rub a little dirt in my face and try to make me look as shitty as possible. This is not the post of someone who is interested in finding out the truth, this is the post of someone who wants to make me look like a liar whenever he can. It's all in the word choice.
Here is his response. Note how he responds carefully.
On October 30 2010 14:28 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_-
I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor.
Besides, if truly that's all you can do, I can hardly think the ability to check ONE player a day for a disease which doesn't even kill unless it's extensively spread to be the "SUPER IMPORTANT" role that you claimed as your role.
Further, there is no way we will be able to confirm that your stick doesn't infect people - As kingjames has mentioned, if your stick is "dirty," you can simply claim whoever you infected the first night to have "turned up as infected" in your "check". Then you can just let the other blues check on him, further confirming your "innoc
Part 1: insult me
2: discredit my role
3: try to discredit me based on a hypothetical and no real reason or logic
Well, as though that weren't enough this isn't the first time he tried to make me look like a liar and it was AGAIN based on a misunderstanding.
On October 30 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:54 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:47 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:36 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: [quote] Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_-
I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it.
Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you.
If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
I can't trust someone who's so "free" with his supposed" facts."
You're bad
He said that after I posted and asked him to confirm it. Why would I "lie" and then ask the mod to confirm my lie as being false immediately afterward. I even went as far as to qualify what I was saying.
I remembered wrong. Good thing I had the good sense to ask artanis to confirm it and qualify my statement before I tried to pass it off as a fact huh?
That's about all I have to say. You want to criticize me based on past games and say I can't be trusted? How about the time where you took it upon yourself to organize a huge spreadsheet of "facts" that were half wrong? Or the part where you called me out on mistakes that I didn't even make.
Or the two times in this thread you called me out on lies I never told.
Or the times all of your "great accusations" were nonsense. Overreaction? No, I'm not overreacting. I smell bullshit and I'm calling it out.
On October 31 2010 07:27 Nemesis wrote: Orgolove sounds like veldril last game
Either orgolove is a bad townie or scum, at this point I really can't tell.
In the last game that orgolove was pro-town he was very nice and played an extremely objective game. He dealt only in facts, he messed some up (Not hard to do in such a large game) but pretty much played the role of "numbers guy"
These erratic attacks, intense focus on me, and antagonistic behavior just strikes me as a total 360 spin from how he played before.
1. Complete change in posting behavior 2. Focused insistence on bringing down 1 specific player, something a town player would have no reason to do on day 1 3. Weak arguments that bank more on accusatory rhetoric, misinformation, and character attack than logic 4. Gives no real reason to believe I am scum. A townie has no reason to relentlessly assault a player they have no strong reason to believe is scum
I'm surprised an experienced player such as yourself wouldn't read all the posts. I don't want to be extremely redundant so I hope you'll actually read the posts this time.
On October 31 2010 07:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'd like to explain my "suspicious" post. I original voted pandain because I didn't feel comfortable with fishball and I wanted to vote for someone because I was afraid I might be inactive. However I have had a lot more time than I thought so I've been able to keep a closer track on what is going on. When Dr H announced his candidacy it really gave me pause because he put in words all that I felt was wrong with pandain. Since then I've been convinced by doc's arguments so I voted for him because I believe that he can prove himself town.
I'm actually a little unsure why you don't like that post.
It came off as "new townie" as well as "possible scum" play. It didn't make me suspect you per se but just put you on my watch list so to speak.
It seemed like an excuse for late vote flip-flopping, something mafia would have an express interest in. Something a new townie would also be worried about being accused for.
On October 31 2010 07:16 kitaman27 wrote: I'm open to hearing why I am the 4th scummiest person on your list if you would like to provide a reason DrH.
It's a bit meta, admittedly. Your insistence on pushing a scenario that is pretty far out and meta in an extremely subjective sense struck me as strange considering your mostly logical play in Haunted Mafia.
I am more interested in seeing how you play the rest of the game rather than lynching you.
mmk, not to pursue a dead issue or anything, but what far out scenario was I pushing? I'm not sure I recall.
I'm sorry and I feel dumb about this but I'll fess up. I meant to write kingjames01 on my little notepad list, but I did it later and since your names both begin with k and were both on the same scumteam I got you two confused.
I was pretty intoxicated last night so hopefully town won't tear me apart for this.
On October 31 2010 07:16 kitaman27 wrote: I'm open to hearing why I am the 4th scummiest person on your list if you would like to provide a reason DrH.
It's a bit meta, admittedly. Your insistence on pushing a scenario that is pretty far out and meta in an extremely subjective sense struck me as strange considering your mostly logical play in Haunted Mafia.
I am more interested in seeing how you play the rest of the game rather than lynching you.
But you're on my radar so to speak. There are so many numerous tells and Day 1 scumhunting is very weak compared to how well it can be done later in the game so I wouldn't worry too much tbh.
I have a strong feeling about orgolove but I fear I might be blinded by personal bias. I would urge the town to read my latest post in response to him and my previous post here and offer what they think of him as a candidate. If it is unsatisfactory, I'll lynch an inactive voter.
The question is who.
Divineks inactivity strikes me as a bit strange, I'd think he'd be jumping in arguments like this considering the way he plays. He's a smart player who loves to analyse. This is reminding me a bit of how he played haunted mafia which was very low-key and pro-town.
CubEdIn or Kenpachi would be another fair choice.
Here was my post in response to Orgoloves huge dissertation about how awful I am which no one ignored (thanks to Glasse's spam :p)
On October 30 2010 18:15 orgolove wrote: DoctorHelvetica's Candidacy: Orgoloves "reality"
Just step back, and take a look. Forget all personal feelings, and just look at the facts.
We are trying to vote for a mayor of the town. The chosen will:
Kill one person of his choice immediately at the end of the first day
have increased voting power for each subsequent lynches
near invincibility to night kills thanks to the presence of bodyguards
Night kill invincibility is not a huge concern for a mafia, the first two powers are the ones we are really concerned with. Invincibility to night kills, however, is something the mafia really worry about since having a townie it in it, much less a mostly confirmed one is a disaster. For them.
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
It is hardly a disaster to elect mafia in this game. In fact there are multiple scenarios in which it could benefit the town. This isn't a point I'm trying to make against you. The true power of a mafia mayor comes not from the day 1 lynch (a mafia mayor is most likely to choose the candidate the town wants to avoid pressure/disagreement that could paint him red), but from the increased voting power at the end of the game. Mafia can control bandwagons easier and achieve LYLO faster. 2 increased voting power is an effective mafia increase of 1. A mafia mayor invites role checks and will probably be inducted into the town circle, an immense amount of pressure is placed on him.
When Artanis announced that rolechecks reveal alignment even of the mayor I figured someone would drop out of the race and that person would be a nervous mafia afraid of the pressure. Since that hasn't happened I can only assume that the mafia is a very experienced/ballsy candidate (I admit I fit this bill) or someone who is losing in the polls anyway and is just going to stay in for fear of suspicion.
DrH's candidacy hinges on two points.
His claim that his role is extremely important - so much so that his role deserves the extra protection afforded to the mayor. I would say that yes, my role is very useful and that protection can help me perform critical coordination of blues. I can constantly confirm my role to people throughout the game (Not just Day 1) and there are various ways I have shown it can be proven if, say, my poke actually infects somebody or not, both of which are concerns of the town.
It has also been demonstrated by me that if my confirmations are made up, I would have to consistently out scumbuddies. This is a scenario where me as a mafia mayor benefits town immensely in the late game.
His claim that he is not a red, and that he will roleclaim without a shadow of doubt after the first day. Well not being a red is definitely important and I will use my confirmation power every night unless it is proven to be an insane role that infects people with M-Rus
To support his first point, he revealed that his role is "Mr Sticky," a role that allows him to "poke" someone as his night action. If his claim is correct, he will then know if the target has Murrayitis.
Not Mr Sticky, but yes this is true. To make the mechanics as clear as possible.
I poke someone at night. If the person DOES NOT have murrayitis they receive a poke and are told "You have been poked by DoctorHelvetica"
If the person DOES have murrayitis they receive no message and I know they have murrayitis.
On October 30 2010 13:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:40 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity.
His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is.
I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky.
sticky is a stick
I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker.
Remember the mechanic of Murrayitis:
On October 29 2010 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Murrayitis Mechanics. The amount of people infected with Murrayitis is posted at the start of the day. Murrayitis is transferred if a carrier is visited, or visits someone during the night. Doctors can cure someone from Murrayitis. While Plague Doctors can cure and transfer immunity to someone with Murrayitis. If over half of the Game has Murrayitis, every carrier of Murrayitis dies.
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
Just to remind everyone, this is an impossibility. Since my poke goes through under my name, it is my ability.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
The easy way to confirm is this is for plague doctors to check the people I poke and see if they turn out infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote: I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray.
On October 13 2010 13:02 BrownBear wrote:
Night 3
It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.
Bill Murray the Miller is now dead.
Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims.
I seriously doubt there are clues in a previous games clueless day post to the true nature of my role. While it is obvious my role is inspired by this post, I think the most likely scenario is the one where Artanis was truthful in his role description. All possibilities must be considered, but we could have fun doing this to anybody and it doesn't really make me look bad, it just adds an extra degree of uncertainty.
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on...VERY LIKELY? That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think we should be making conclusions about someones role, that supercede their role PM and description, based on metagaming and individual interpretations of the storyline of a previous game. Does this really seem like the sound and solid reasoning that helps the town? Is this the sort of logic that will "destroy my platform"? I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd and I'm calling it out. Then DrH pretends to be notified.
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
And the storyline of my role is that with Bill Murray's death I was given new life and immunity to his disease. This is a very basic interpretation and it appears to be the one of Artanis, who is, by the way, the mod of this game. Not you. Your entirely subjective speculation about what my name could or couldn't mean in the vague context of a previous game is utterly USELESS especially given the fact that the possibility of myself being a plaguebearer can be checked. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible for me to currently be infected with M-Rus since the day post says NO ONE IS INFECTED WITH M-RUS.
Did we forget that? Currently, no one is a plaguebearer. This makes me think the role that spreads the disease is something like a mad scientist type role. He isn't infected per se, but has the ability to infect others. This is speculation on my part, but for now the safest assumption is that no one has M-Rus.
To jump from not really knowing anything about it to accusing me of being the M-Rus spreader when my role seems to be designed to everything but it, I have told a few ways in which this can be counteracted, I have offered my life to the town and the lives of those I confirm to in the case that I die and flip mafia, AND the fact that all of this speculation is based on "what if" dream scenarios and previous storylines I think it's safe to say that it is a pretty far out accusation. At best.
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet.
However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
You put the word PERSON in there yourself. You inserted that. That's not what Artanis said. That SCREAAAAAAAAAMS wordplay trickery to me.
If Artanis says no one is infect by M-Rus, why can't that mean no one is infected by M-Rus. So because no one is infected by M-Rus, I'm infected by M-Rus? Ridiculous. What should he have said? "No one and a stick has M-Rus yet?" This is baseless bullshit designed to make me look bad. That's all that is. This is garbage.
On October 30 2010 14:27 infinitestory wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:20 Coagulation wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~
This is true. I suppose if I were infected my reds only to have them immunized this would be an advantageous play if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to publicly out them and the pattern would be clear pretty quickly, leading to a swift kill of the entire mafia.
The issue with me being mafia is that no matter what happens I've put myself in a position where I must reveal my team to you over the course of the game while being put in a negligible position of power. This is not a rational mafia play which, all things considered, is pretty easy to see.
@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all.
Nothing is 100% in this game aside from whatever it is somebody flips at death. Unless there is a good neighbor type role, I still feel I have done the most to confirm myself to you guys as being pro-town. It's too bad the mafia have come out to smear me.
On October 30 2010 14:44 Ace wrote: That doesn't confirm your alignment though
On October 30 2010 14:59 orgolove wrote: -_-
On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
I suppose there are an infinite number of scenarios in a game where we don't know somebodies role. I don't think endless hypothetical situations are really a point against me, but this is a good point.
The thing is, we know exactly how many plague-bearers there are at the beginning of each day. Again in this situation, I still have to out members of my team with my confirmation power and I've again made a terrible play for the mafia. If the mafia have plague doctors, then it is unlikely that mafia are the source of infection. I would say impossible. They would merely infect themselves and then immunize themselves and watch M-Rus take over the town and win the game. This is a bullshit scenario.
Thus, not only is his ability, if true, unworthy of mayoral protection, we won't even be sure that he can reveal himself as a townie beyond doubt.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
Because you hurt my feelings by calling me a liar when you couldn't back it up and insulting me for modding a game which I put a lot of work and my life into and that despite the mistakes I feel proud of. I think anyone could understand why that would upset me.
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
On October 30 2010 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: fair enough. I'm not the one starting the WIFOM bullshit.
On October 30 2010 14:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: watch the mafia keep grasping at straws to try to make me look bad and red when I've done more to show i'm town than anyone in this game
and then they want to vote for pandain lololol
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
You merely questioned me? I like how you point out some of the things I said to you (which you never properly defended or refuted, because you can't) and then put it all in a big nice post of bullshit to make me look bad. This is called a chainsaw defense. Defending yourself by attacking your offender.
Why don't I point out the specific parts where you called me a liar based on misunderstandings and then ducked out of the spotlight? Because I'd like to get specific with my criticism, it'd be nice if you could too.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
Disproved this immediately. You never responded. However note that as soon as you thought I had messed up (because you didn't read the thread properly) you were extremely quick not only to call me "out" on it, but to rub a little dirt in my face and try to make me look as shitty as possible. This is not the post of someone who is interested in finding out the truth, this is the post of someone who wants to make me look like a liar whenever he can. It's all in the word choice.
Here is his response. Note how he responds carefully.
On October 30 2010 14:28 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_-
I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor.
Besides, if truly that's all you can do, I can hardly think the ability to check ONE player a day for a disease which doesn't even kill unless it's extensively spread to be the "SUPER IMPORTANT" role that you claimed as your role.
Further, there is no way we will be able to confirm that your stick doesn't infect people - As kingjames has mentioned, if your stick is "dirty," you can simply claim whoever you infected the first night to have "turned up as infected" in your "check". Then you can just let the other blues check on him, further confirming your "innoc
Part 1: insult me
2: discredit my role
3: try to discredit me based on a hypothetical and no real reason or logic
Well, as though that weren't enough this isn't the first time he tried to make me look like a liar and it was AGAIN based on a misunderstanding.
On October 30 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:54 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:47 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:36 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: [quote] Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_-
I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it.
Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you.
If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
I can't trust someone who's so "free" with his supposed" facts."
You're bad
He said that after I posted and asked him to confirm it. Why would I "lie" and then ask the mod to confirm my lie as being false immediately afterward. I even went as far as to qualify what I was saying.
I remembered wrong. Good thing I had the good sense to ask artanis to confirm it and qualify my statement before I tried to pass it off as a fact huh?
That's about all I have to say. You want to criticize me based on past games and say I can't be trusted? How about the time where you took it upon yourself to organize a huge spreadsheet of "facts" that were half wrong? Or the part where you called me out on mistakes that I didn't even make.
Or the two times in this thread you called me out on lies I never told.
Or the times all of your "great accusations" were nonsense. Overreaction? No, I'm not overreacting. I smell bullshit and I'm calling it out.
I already posted what I thought about that post from orgo, even before you responded to it actually. Not sure you saw it, but I basically agreed with you.
On October 31 2010 00:22 jcarlsoniv wrote: I apologize, mods and orgolove, I did not mean to get into personal attacks myself. I'm sorry for attacking and being a hypocrite.
That being said, orgolove, that is a good, constructive analysis that can generate discussion, and discussion we shall have!
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
Agreed, it is a decision that needs to be taken heavily into consideration. Electing a Scum-Mayor would suck, but I don't think it's quite as disastrous as you make it out to be. It will give the Mafia a bit more pull and influence, yes, but as long as we don't trust the Mayor completely blindly, we can limit that influence. And yes, a blue as Mayor is always good.
THESIS: So it raises the question, are the benefits greater than the risks?
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
This is not all completely true. M-itis does not rely solely on the controlled spread of the Mafia. It is "highly contagious" and will spread to anyone in contact with infected persons. So, if an infected blue watches or investigates, etc. (depending on roles in the game) a Mafia, that Mafia member is also infected. I think some people are forgetting that the Mafia is also at risk to die once the M-itis pops.
Proposed Scenarios: 1. Dr.H is elected and is Town: Having someone who can combat the spread of M-itis while being immune to it (without Plague Doctor protection) and immune to night kills (while bodyguards are alive) is, I believe, very important in this particular game. He can then find out who has M-itis (and simultaneously, his role will be PMd to the poke-ey) and direct the Plague Doctors to give them immunity.
2. Dr.H is elected and is Mafia: He could do all this fake claiming and elaborate planning to get Mafia members to fake his claims. However, this has a couple issues which Dr.H has elaborated on many many times. Would a Mafia really put his neck out there THIS far just to gain night immunity and an extra vote? If there are any blue roles that can kill, it would be much better for the Mafia to remain unsuspected at all, because aside from a lynch, the Mafia won't get killed at night (unless there are blue kills or M-itis). Additionally, if Dr.H had multiple scumbuddies faking his claim for the ruse, well then every time, he has outed a friend, because you can be damn sure that whoever he pokes and comes forward will be scrutinized and probably DT checked. And if we believe that Dr.H is being very scummy, we lynch. The loss of the Mayor would really suck though.
I believe it is, in fact, VERY important to be checking, one-by-one who has M-itis. That is probably the biggest threat in the game (only "probably" because of lack of known roles).
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
I believe this could be said about any of the candidates. There are so many potential traps with electing any good player to be Mayor. We can't possibly trust anyone in the game, as is the nature of Mafia.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
I do somewhat agree with you here, but only on the part where Dr.H has gotten increasingly emotional as the thread went on. We do need a Mayor who is a good leader and can take the responsibility of the position. However, I'm not sure I see the other candidates being able to do it as effectively. In my opinion, Dr.H has kept his cool fairly well. He has been stable throughout this game. Dr.H is a very responsible and experienced player, and he has proven himself as a leader, even amongst all of the questioning. I would say that he has been so emotional (I see it as frustrated rather than emotional) because he had said the same things over and over for multiple pages. His campaign has been concrete this whole time, and he offers a lot to the town, with relatively low gain for scum if he is Mafia.
In conclusion, I believe that the election of Dr.H grants more benefits to the town than possible risks if he were Mafia. I think he is a smart choice because of his ability to combat the disease that will most likely destroy many players. The longer we can keep the M-itis explosion at bay, the better off the town will be, and Dr.H's role seems to lend itself very well to that ability.
While I do find him scummy, I'm not sure he should be a Day1 lynch. If we watch him over the next Day or two, we may be able to figure more out about him.
I don't feel more sure about anybody. Lynching an inactive is all well and good but we're just as likely to get one of us killed going after that group.
On October 31 2010 07:16 kitaman27 wrote: I'm open to hearing why I am the 4th scummiest person on your list if you would like to provide a reason DrH.
It's a bit meta, admittedly. Your insistence on pushing a scenario that is pretty far out and meta in an extremely subjective sense struck me as strange considering your mostly logical play in Haunted Mafia.
I am more interested in seeing how you play the rest of the game rather than lynching you.
mmk, not to pursue a dead issue or anything, but what far out scenario was I pushing? I'm not sure I recall.
I'm sorry and I feel dumb about this but I'll fess up. I meant to write kingjames01 on my little notepad list, but I did it later and since your names both begin with k and were both on the same scumteam I got you two confused.
I was pretty intoxicated last night so hopefully town won't tear me apart for this.
Ughhh this makes me look pretty stupid
Oh god, our mayor is an alcoholic... *facepalm*
it was DXM which was even worse :<
i look like a raccoon/crack addict today with giant huge bags on my eyes ;_;
On October 31 2010 07:34 Ace wrote: You've got a lot of huge posts. But I'd take a summary of all the points if that isn't too much work for you to do
On October 31 2010 07:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 31 2010 07:14 orgolove wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
Lol, bring it. I just love how your entire decision making regarding possible lynch targets have been guided by your personal grudge, irregardless of the actual facts at hand. You'll eat your words.
Not at all. There are players that have grilled me just as much and to much better effect than you. The difference is I don't think they are scum. You don't threaten me, you just reek of scum.
If you want to talk about the nastiness of personal grudges how about the one that leads you to insult me twice in a row even though Artanis told you to stop once? Hypocrite.
See here people. As early as a day ago, DrH proclaimed that if chosen as a mayor, he'll be lynching youngminii based on his posting actions. But now he has immediately switched to the most persistent critic that "dare question a TL veteran."
Worst argument ever. So I shouldn't ever change my mind in light of new information? In light of the game continuing on and better candidates presenting themselves? Don't be absurd. This "point" is trash.
Are you seriously going to elect a guy who so openly flaunts his lack of judgment? Who's to say he won't target the next critic of his reign, all the way until there's no town left?
Because I can only decide the day 1 lynch and I have no killing power :D
And are you seriously going to elect a "Mr Sticky," just sticky, not mr sticky whose role has no direct applications to scumhunting? Even the best scenario he himself brings forth involves 1. multiple people being truthful and trustworthy Not really, just myself and it would be very easy to catch me in a lie. 2. the same group of people remaining coordinated OVER TWO DAYS What do you mean by this? Plague doctors?
And all that to confirm what? that ONE guy had the disease, which still won't do any harm unless the mafia's practically won the game.
So lets just let the plague happen no big deal right?
There has to be a better role to be suitable as position of a mayor.
That is very well possible, but it looks like I'm being elected. Blame the voters not me.
I also like that you didn't respond to my post a few pages back where I completely obliterated your terrible "criticism".
Here I'll go ahead and do it again.
On October 31 2010 01:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 18:15 orgolove wrote: DoctorHelvetica's Candidacy: Orgoloves "reality"
Just step back, and take a look. Forget all personal feelings, and just look at the facts.
We are trying to vote for a mayor of the town. The chosen will:
Kill one person of his choice immediately at the end of the first day
have increased voting power for each subsequent lynches
near invincibility to night kills thanks to the presence of bodyguards
Night kill invincibility is not a huge concern for a mafia, the first two powers are the ones we are really concerned with. Invincibility to night kills, however, is something the mafia really worry about since having a townie it in it, much less a mostly confirmed one is a disaster. For them.
It is not a decision to be made lightly. If we select a mafia into the position, it would be a disaster of cosmic proportions. Conversely, if we select an important blue into the position, the town will be much closer to victory.
It is hardly a disaster to elect mafia in this game. In fact there are multiple scenarios in which it could benefit the town. This isn't a point I'm trying to make against you. The true power of a mafia mayor comes not from the day 1 lynch (a mafia mayor is most likely to choose the candidate the town wants to avoid pressure/disagreement that could paint him red), but from the increased voting power at the end of the game. Mafia can control bandwagons easier and achieve LYLO faster. 2 increased voting power is an effective mafia increase of 1. A mafia mayor invites role checks and will probably be inducted into the town circle, an immense amount of pressure is placed on him.
When Artanis announced that rolechecks reveal alignment even of the mayor I figured someone would drop out of the race and that person would be a nervous mafia afraid of the pressure. Since that hasn't happened I can only assume that the mafia is a very experienced/ballsy candidate (I admit I fit this bill) or someone who is losing in the polls anyway and is just going to stay in for fear of suspicion.
DrH's candidacy hinges on two points.
His claim that his role is extremely important - so much so that his role deserves the extra protection afforded to the mayor. I would say that yes, my role is very useful and that protection can help me perform critical coordination of blues. I can constantly confirm my role to people throughout the game (Not just Day 1) and there are various ways I have shown it can be proven if, say, my poke actually infects somebody or not, both of which are concerns of the town.
It has also been demonstrated by me that if my confirmations are made up, I would have to consistently out scumbuddies. This is a scenario where me as a mafia mayor benefits town immensely in the late game.
His claim that he is not a red, and that he will roleclaim without a shadow of doubt after the first day. Well not being a red is definitely important and I will use my confirmation power every night unless it is proven to be an insane role that infects people with M-Rus
To support his first point, he revealed that his role is "Mr Sticky," a role that allows him to "poke" someone as his night action. If his claim is correct, he will then know if the target has Murrayitis.
Not Mr Sticky, but yes this is true. To make the mechanics as clear as possible.
I poke someone at night. If the person DOES NOT have murrayitis they receive a poke and are told "You have been poked by DoctorHelvetica"
If the person DOES have murrayitis they receive no message and I know they have murrayitis.
On October 30 2010 13:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:40 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:31 bumatlarge wrote: I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
DrH is NOT claiming Plague Doctor. He says that he can tell if someone has the plague but he cannot confer immunity.
His other apparent ability is to have Artanis PM a player with confirmation that DrH is who he says he is.
I'm still not sure why that would be related to Sticky.
sticky is a stick
I poke people with a stick and they are told if I poked them or not. If the poke is unsuccessful than I know that person has m-rus or that I was roleblocked if there is a roleblocker.
Remember the mechanic of Murrayitis:
On October 29 2010 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Murrayitis Mechanics. The amount of people infected with Murrayitis is posted at the start of the day. Murrayitis is transferred if a carrier is visited, or visits someone during the night. Doctors can cure someone from Murrayitis. While Plague Doctors can cure and transfer immunity to someone with Murrayitis. If over half of the Game has Murrayitis, every carrier of Murrayitis dies.
So let me reiterate. According to his own descriptions, DrH can check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis.
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately. Rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
You decide - is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person ONE night, in a 40 person game, so important that it requires the protection afforded to a mayor?
Next, to support his second point, he continued from his roleclaim and declared that by "poking" someone the first night and having the target confirm the event, he will definitely be shown as a blue.
Considering the number of unknowns in this game, there are so many potential traps in here that we can't possibly trust this. And apparently I'm not the only one to pick up on it. Just to name a few:
On October 30 2010 13:12 kingjames01 wrote: Everyone, consider this scenario. The mafia share the names and abilities of their individual roles with the group. DrH claims the name and abilities of one of his mafia teammates, ie. "Sticky". He gets elected mayor during the day and then at night, he gets elected Godfather. As Godfather, he chooses to appear as "Sticky" to any detective checks. At night, the real "Sticky" does whatever "Stickies" are supposed to do. When day breaks, DrH claims responsibility so we start to believe him more. We go along with his scheming and then we lose.
Just to remind everyone, this is an impossibility. Since my poke goes through under my name, it is my ability.
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
The easy way to confirm is this is for plague doctors to check the people I poke and see if they turn out infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
On October 30 2010 13:31 kingjames01 wrote: I just want to point out that Sticky is the name of the stick that Bill Murray used to defend himself when the mafia took him out in Mafia XXXI. I don't think that is a coincidence since a major theme of this game is Bill Murray.
On October 13 2010 13:02 BrownBear wrote:
Night 3
It was a dark and stormy night. The survivors huddled in the ruins of their houses, shivering, makeshift weapons pointed at the doors. Bill Murray had found a pointy stick. It was his favorite pointy stick. He had named it Sticky. Thunder crashed in the distance as he shivered in his bed, Sticky pointed directly at the door, pointy end first.
The door creaked open. Bill Murray leaped up and screamed "PROTECT ME, STICKY!!!", then charged at the door, Sticky first.
Bill Murray the Miller is now dead.
Anybody have any ideas how this is related to DrH's role? Maybe if we can figure that out we can confirm/deny DrH's claims.
I seriously doubt there are clues in a previous games clueless day post to the true nature of my role. While it is obvious my role is inspired by this post, I think the most likely scenario is the one where Artanis was truthful in his role description. All possibilities must be considered, but we could have fun doing this to anybody and it doesn't really make me look bad, it just adds an extra degree of uncertainty.
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on...VERY LIKELY? That's a bit of a stretch. I don't think we should be making conclusions about someones role, that supercede their role PM and description, based on metagaming and individual interpretations of the storyline of a previous game. Does this really seem like the sound and solid reasoning that helps the town? Is this the sort of logic that will "destroy my platform"? I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd and I'm calling it out. Then DrH pretends to be notified.
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
And the storyline of my role is that with Bill Murray's death I was given new life and immunity to his disease. This is a very basic interpretation and it appears to be the one of Artanis, who is, by the way, the mod of this game. Not you. Your entirely subjective speculation about what my name could or couldn't mean in the vague context of a previous game is utterly USELESS especially given the fact that the possibility of myself being a plaguebearer can be checked. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible for me to currently be infected with M-Rus since the day post says NO ONE IS INFECTED WITH M-RUS.
Did we forget that? Currently, no one is a plaguebearer. This makes me think the role that spreads the disease is something like a mad scientist type role. He isn't infected per se, but has the ability to infect others. This is speculation on my part, but for now the safest assumption is that no one has M-Rus.
To jump from not really knowing anything about it to accusing me of being the M-Rus spreader when my role seems to be designed to everything but it, I have told a few ways in which this can be counteracted, I have offered my life to the town and the lives of those I confirm to in the case that I die and flip mafia, AND the fact that all of this speculation is based on "what if" dream scenarios and previous storylines I think it's safe to say that it is a pretty far out accusation. At best.
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet.
However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
You put the word PERSON in there yourself. You inserted that. That's not what Artanis said. That SCREAAAAAAAAAMS wordplay trickery to me.
If Artanis says no one is infect by M-Rus, why can't that mean no one is infected by M-Rus. So because no one is infected by M-Rus, I'm infected by M-Rus? Ridiculous. What should he have said? "No one and a stick has M-Rus yet?" This is baseless bullshit designed to make me look bad. That's all that is. This is garbage.
On October 30 2010 14:27 infinitestory wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:20 Coagulation wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:05 kingjames01 wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:55 kingjames01 wrote: [quote]
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
again why would mafia have a sticky, a role clearly designed to stop the spread of m-rus, a disease that benefits mafia
Even assuming what you've told us is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, there's an advantage in rallying the plague doctors to cure infected reds. I want to see something more well thought out, please~
This is true. I suppose if I were infected my reds only to have them immunized this would be an advantageous play if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to publicly out them and the pattern would be clear pretty quickly, leading to a swift kill of the entire mafia.
The issue with me being mafia is that no matter what happens I've put myself in a position where I must reveal my team to you over the course of the game while being put in a negligible position of power. This is not a rational mafia play which, all things considered, is pretty easy to see.
@Meapak_Ziphh: I'm not considering whether "sticky" represents a m-itis infector or a m-itis stopper. I'm just presenting a possible scenario which, if nobody finds a way around it, compromises DrH's claim of 100% guaranteed proof of townieness. It doesn't bank on meta at all.
Nothing is 100% in this game aside from whatever it is somebody flips at death. Unless there is a good neighbor type role, I still feel I have done the most to confirm myself to you guys as being pro-town. It's too bad the mafia have come out to smear me.
On October 30 2010 14:44 Ace wrote: That doesn't confirm your alignment though
On October 30 2010 14:59 orgolove wrote: -_-
On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
here is my solution:
if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely)
I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis.
If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke.
this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out.
does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
I suppose there are an infinite number of scenarios in a game where we don't know somebodies role. I don't think endless hypothetical situations are really a point against me, but this is a good point.
The thing is, we know exactly how many plague-bearers there are at the beginning of each day. Again in this situation, I still have to out members of my team with my confirmation power and I've again made a terrible play for the mafia. If the mafia have plague doctors, then it is unlikely that mafia are the source of infection. I would say impossible. They would merely infect themselves and then immunize themselves and watch M-Rus take over the town and win the game. This is a bullshit scenario.
Thus, not only is his ability, if true, unworthy of mayoral protection, we won't even be sure that he can reveal himself as a townie beyond doubt.
I close this with one last thing I place under your consideration. The Town Mayor is a position of leadership. Both with his ability to immediately lynch 1 player, as well as his increased number of votes in the daily lynches, the mayor has a responsibility to take charge of the town and be a levelheaded leader who will not be guided by emotion.
If we do get an experienced, well-intentioned and collected leader
However, DoctorHelvetica has been increasingly emotional and defensive as questions against his alignment mounted.
Because you hurt my feelings by calling me a liar when you couldn't back it up and insulting me for modding a game which I put a lot of work and my life into and that despite the mistakes I feel proud of. I think anyone could understand why that would upset me.
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
On October 30 2010 15:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: fair enough. I'm not the one starting the WIFOM bullshit.
On October 30 2010 14:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: watch the mafia keep grasping at straws to try to make me look bad and red when I've done more to show i'm town than anyone in this game
and then they want to vote for pandain lololol
DrH could not keep his cool when people merely questioned him during his candidacy. Can we truly trust him to lead the town as a mayor, unaffected by his personal bias?
You merely questioned me? I like how you point out some of the things I said to you (which you never properly defended or refuted, because you can't) and then put it all in a big nice post of bullshit to make me look bad. This is called a chainsaw defense. Defending yourself by attacking your offender.
Why don't I point out the specific parts where you called me a liar based on misunderstandings and then ducked out of the spotlight? Because I'd like to get specific with my criticism, it'd be nice if you could too.
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
Disproved this immediately. You never responded. However note that as soon as you thought I had messed up (because you didn't read the thread properly) you were extremely quick not only to call me "out" on it, but to rub a little dirt in my face and try to make me look as shitty as possible. This is not the post of someone who is interested in finding out the truth, this is the post of someone who wants to make me look like a liar whenever he can. It's all in the word choice.
Here is his response. Note how he responds carefully.
On October 30 2010 14:28 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote: lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky?
In the words of Antoine Dodson
"You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real."
kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis
i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread
you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand
obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least.
Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_-
I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor.
Besides, if truly that's all you can do, I can hardly think the ability to check ONE player a day for a disease which doesn't even kill unless it's extensively spread to be the "SUPER IMPORTANT" role that you claimed as your role.
Further, there is no way we will be able to confirm that your stick doesn't infect people - As kingjames has mentioned, if your stick is "dirty," you can simply claim whoever you infected the first night to have "turned up as infected" in your "check". Then you can just let the other blues check on him, further confirming your "innoc
Part 1: insult me
2: discredit my role
3: try to discredit me based on a hypothetical and no real reason or logic
Well, as though that weren't enough this isn't the first time he tried to make me look like a liar and it was AGAIN based on a misunderstanding.
On October 30 2010 10:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:54 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:47 orgolove wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:36 orgolove wrote: [quote] It'll do you well to not to blatantly lie about rules that can be easily clarified by a single PM for the coming game -_-
I really do not know where I supposedly lied regarding this. If you could quote that message I can apologize for it, but I am currently unaware of it.
Sorry, that was directed to DrH, not you.
If you could do the same and point out where I lied that would be great thanks
On October 30 2010 09:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Artanis said something like the mayor will return the role "Mayor" if rolechecked. I'd like it if he confirmed this.
On October 30 2010 09:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The mayor will show up as the role he has next to being Mayor, unless tampered with by outside sources which may or may not be in the game. I also do not recall ever having made such a statement.
I can't trust someone who's so "free" with his supposed" facts."
You're bad
He said that after I posted and asked him to confirm it. Why would I "lie" and then ask the mod to confirm my lie as being false immediately afterward. I even went as far as to qualify what I was saying.
I remembered wrong. Good thing I had the good sense to ask artanis to confirm it and qualify my statement before I tried to pass it off as a fact huh?
That's about all I have to say. You want to criticize me based on past games and say I can't be trusted? How about the time where you took it upon yourself to organize a huge spreadsheet of "facts" that were half wrong? Or the part where you called me out on mistakes that I didn't even make.
Or the two times in this thread you called me out on lies I never told.
Or the times all of your "great accusations" were nonsense. Overreaction? No, I'm not overreacting. I smell bullshit and I'm calling it out.
On October 31 2010 07:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 31 2010 07:27 Nemesis wrote: Orgolove sounds like veldril last game
Either orgolove is a bad townie or scum, at this point I really can't tell.
In the last game that orgolove was pro-town he was very nice and played an extremely objective game. He dealt only in facts, he messed some up (Not hard to do in such a large game) but pretty much played the role of "numbers guy"
These erratic attacks, intense focus on me, and antagonistic behavior just strikes me as a total 360 spin from how he played before.
1. Complete change in posting behavior 2. Focused insistence on bringing down 1 specific player, something a town player would have no reason to do on day 1 3. Weak arguments that bank more on accusatory rhetoric, misinformation, and character attack than logic 4. Gives no real reason to believe I am scum. A townie has no reason to relentlessly assault a player they have no strong reason to believe is scum
I'm surprised an experienced player such as yourself wouldn't read all the posts. I don't want to be extremely redundant so I hope you'll actually read the posts this time.
I'm taking it easy because it's early in the game. I don't read every post the minute they get posted, but I do eventually read all of them.
As for your points, (2) is not Scummy. Town players tunnel vision all of the time and in fact is what leads to most innocent lynches. (3) is a solid reason. (4) - If orgolove hasn't come right out and said you are Scum and is only trying to assault you then I guess you've got a solid argument. (1) I don't see an issue with. Nothing radical has happened to the point of anyone changing their posting behavior becomes a major flag.
His posting behavior is literally the exact opposite though. It's not just a change, it's a complete spin.
He hasn't come out and said I am scum, he's just assaulting me.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
Lol, bring it. I just love how your entire decision making regarding possible lynch targets have been guided by your personal grudge, irregardless of the actual facts at hand. You'll eat your words.
Not at all. There are players that have grilled me just as much and to much better effect than you. The difference is I don't think they are scum. You don't threaten me, you just reek of scum.
If you want to talk about the nastiness of personal grudges how about the one that leads you to insult me twice in a row even though Artanis told you to stop once? Hypocrite.
See here people. As early as a day ago, DrH proclaimed that if chosen as a mayor, he'll be lynching youngminii based on his posting actions. But now he has immediately switched to the most persistent critic that "dare question a TL veteran."
Worst argument ever. So I shouldn't ever change my mind in light of new information? In light of the game continuing on and better candidates presenting themselves? Don't be absurd. This "point" is trash.
Are you seriously going to elect a guy who so openly flaunts his lack of judgment? Who's to say he won't target the next critic of his reign, all the way until there's no town left?
Because I can only decide the day 1 lynch and I have no killing power :D
And are you seriously going to elect a "Mr Sticky," just sticky, not mr sticky whose role has no direct applications to scumhunting? Even the best scenario he himself brings forth involves 1. multiple people being truthful and trustworthy Not really, just myself and it would be very easy to catch me in a lie. 2. the same group of people remaining coordinated OVER TWO DAYS What do you mean by this? Plague doctors?
And all that to confirm what? that ONE guy had the disease, which still won't do any harm unless the mafia's practically won the game.
So lets just let the plague happen no big deal right?
There has to be a better role to be suitable as position of a mayor.
That is very well possible, but it looks like I'm being elected. Blame the voters not me.
I also like that you didn't respond to my post a few pages back where I completely obliterated your terrible "criticism".
Here I'll go ahead and do it again.
"Terrible criticism"? Lol, I can count at least several of the players here that appreciated the points I raised. And yet you try to rile me up with your own insults! "this point is trash" AHAHA how childish can you be?
On October 31 2010 07:27 Nemesis wrote: Orgolove sounds like veldril last game
Either orgolove is a bad townie or scum, at this point I really can't tell.
In the last game that orgolove was pro-town he was very nice and played an extremely objective game. He dealt only in facts, he messed some up (Not hard to do in such a large game) but pretty much played the role of "numbers guy"
These erratic attacks, intense focus on me, and antagonistic behavior just strikes me as a total 360 spin from how he played before.
Interesting. So questioning a mayoral candidate counts as being a "bad townie"? "Antagonistic behavior"? I'm more suspicious of Nemesis and your connection to DrH, given how you immediately come to defense via trying to paint me as a scum.
If criticizing the reasons behind your list counts as an insult to you, then this is just hopeless. As I said, please do lynch me if I am your top suspect. If you are so petty as to lynch someone based on your personal grudges, then I rest my case - the town will see the light eventually.
Great post again. You ignore almost all of my arguments, never respond to everything specific and prattle on about the same things you've been saying over and over again.
No criticizing me isn't an insult. Calling me a liar and a terrible host twice in a row is an insult and it's pretty clear that's what I'm referring to.
Plenty of people have questioned me. Not all of them have done so in such a scummy fashion.
Mind telling me why my counterarguments are bad instead of calling me childish? lol this is getting ridiculous
On October 31 2010 07:48 Infundibulum wrote: I still think Dr H should choose to lynch Pandain, Fishball, or bumatlarge. I feel that we're more likely to hit a mafia from the group of candidates than the group of inactives.
i feel realllllllly uncomfortable doing that
i doubt 2 are mafia and all 3 claim to have hugely important roles
"this point is trash" is not an insult it's an insult to your argument that
by the way
was followed by the REASONS for why the argument was bad. I BACKED IT UP.
Calling me childish like that is an "insult" and you haven't backed up anything you've said. Instead of responding to my counterarguments you just try to make me look bad for responding.
Do you just hate me personally or is this really bad scum play.
I have to reexamine everything now that Orgolove has flipped town. I'm a bit surprised he was so intent on attacking me in this case but I suppose he was indeed very dissatisfied with the way I had modded the previous game.
On October 31 2010 07:54 Ace wrote: @Infundibulum: Let a Detective investigate them.
I'd be willing to bet that the mafia would put godfather on whoever ran.
On October 31 2010 08:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I have to reexamine everything now that Orgolove has flipped town. I'm a bit surprised he was so intent on attacking me in this case but I suppose he was indeed very dissatisfied with the way I had modded the previous game.
On October 31 2010 07:54 Ace wrote: @Infundibulum: Let a Detective investigate them.
I'd be willing to bet that the mafia would put godfather on whoever ran.
I've PM'd him many many times to keep his personal grudge to himself, as it would only hurt us at the end, but seems he really really hates you.
He just PM'd me now, saying "Whatever. I'm sick of that !@#$ -_-" What have you done DH?
Artanis was so hasty to mod-kill too. Now this really changes a lot of stuff for me
I didn't do a damn thing to him. He's really upset about how I handled Haunted Mafia against. I really only made a single mistake that affected the game in any way which was lynching MetalFace instead of Kenpachi because my vote counting software was bugged.
his fault for not having the maturity to control it.
If you have the abililty to put me in your circle Fishball I request you do so. I have quite a bit I'd like to discuss with you that I'd prefer mafia not have the ability to read.
When the time is right they are things I would come out to the town with.
On October 31 2010 08:18 Pandain wrote: Alright, I decided Dr. H would be a better mayor than me. I did somewhat get caught up in my own ego and emotion and realized during the Rally to restore Sanity and/or Fear that, if he can really confirm himself to be 100% town, that I would trust him above myself.
As for that mafia vote, I think it's just a ploy to make people disbelieve him. This is what really stuck with me, why would they do that when they know he would already win? I think it's just a poor/desperate play.
Don't let me down Dr. H.,
Not a desperate play. Why would mafia put their 1 useless vote behind their own candidate. The only sensible choice it to put it on the largest bandwagon in this case, especially if they can twist it to make me look bad.
I find it odd you're trying to play down your candidacy now when it's pretty clear I've won the election at this point. Why bother?
On October 31 2010 08:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: bumatlarge claims he has that power
I say bumatlarge you should come out publicly with who you're going to convert into the circle first so it can be confirmed.
No, he shouldn't. His power is pretty much being a converting Mason. Part of what makes him so powerful is the fact that Scum don't know who his partners are. If he really does have that ability then let him do his own thing.
until he converts a scum and they all know who his partners are and we know none
at some point, there needs to be a claim. at least as soon as there is suspicion of mafia being in the circle.
That's how I feel. I'm ok with him not claiming right away. I think a detective should investigate bumatlarge moreso than any of our candidates though.
Just talked to Artanis about godfather mechanics. There is not necessarily a godfather in this game.
If the godfather does exist, he can make up ANY role. He does not have to choose a role that exists. For instance he could choose "butter" or "fhtagn".
I feel like the Godfather may not exist. I feel it is likely that there are are insane cops in this game and considering the mayoral power has been reduced (so that rolechecks still work), it seems that maybe information roles would be weakened to balance this out? This is pretty much just speculation, but its something to think about.
Artanis can confirm this. If the Godfather exists (which he may not) he can choose any made up role. Artanis and LSB are the ONLY people who know the names of the roles in the game.
On October 31 2010 08:24 Ace wrote: Why would bumatlarge reveal who is in his circle to other people? All he has to do is coordinate information. If he recruits a Scum into his circle then all they'll know is that bumatlarge recruited them - not the identity of any other person in the circle.
I'm fine with a Detective investigating bum though.
That's not necessarily the case. Why would you assume that person wouldn't know who else was in the circle.
Bum, does your power give them to PM you or PM you and the list of people you have already converted?
On October 31 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: also the mafia just voted for me
On October 31 2010 08:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Additional Mafia vote: ##DoctorHelvetica
Artanis confirmed to me this is a real vote.
If this is true (Artanis please confirm), then you should stop and think.
Why does the Mafia want me to be Mayor instead of the others? Why not Fishball? (2nd closest candidate) What do they have up their sleeves? You should rally your votes over to me imo.
I am seriously considering it. I wish I could talk to you in PM about it.
When Orgolove died this is how I felt immediately.
Fishball is more than likely a town player.
Mafia bandwagoners are likely the ones that switched their votes from Fishball to me, knowing that his role was very powerful as mayor and that other townies were already attacking me doing their work for them.
But part of me feels very uncomfortable about it. I'm not going to drop out of the election. I do think my voters should seriously reconsider voting for Fishball.
On October 31 2010 08:24 Ace wrote: Why would bumatlarge reveal who is in his circle to other people? All he has to do is coordinate information. If he recruits a Scum into his circle then all they'll know is that bumatlarge recruited them - not the identity of any other person in the circle.
I'm fine with a Detective investigating bum though.
That's not necessarily the case. Why would you assume that person wouldn't know who else was in the circle.
Bum, does your power give them to PM you or PM you and the list of people you have already converted?
How could they know if bum doesn't tell them? o.0
If they are given the power to PM others in that circle, they would obviously need to know who is in that circle. It's possible that Bumatlarge conducts the actiont hrough Artanis who also relays the members of the circle something like
"Bumatlarge has brought you into x circle you can now pm player x player y player z"
that would seem sensible to me. I'd like bum to respond about this.
On October 31 2010 08:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: When Orgolove died this is how I felt immediately.
Fishball is more than likely a town player.
Mafia bandwagoners are likely the ones that switched their votes from Fishball to me, knowing that his role was very powerful as mayor and that other townies were already attacking me doing their work for them.
But part of me feels very uncomfortable about it. I'm not going to drop out of the election. I do think my voters should seriously reconsider voting for Fishball.
On October 30 2010 04:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote: sorry i can't make up my mind artanis
##Unelect Fishball ##Elect DoctorHelvetica
explain?
because that was when i decided to run
I'm look more specifically at later votes in this case. mafia will spread their votes around, determine where the town bandwagon is going, then jump accordingly
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
SiNiquity is my first choice at the moment. Similar post to youngminii but I feel more confident that his actual vote was scummy than youngs.
I feel that Pandain or BumAtLarge have the highest chances of being scum mayor so I'm looking at their supporters and posting atm.
On October 31 2010 08:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: When Orgolove died this is how I felt immediately.
Fishball is more than likely a town player.
Mafia bandwagoners are likely the ones that switched their votes from Fishball to me, knowing that his role was very powerful as mayor and that other townies were already attacking me doing their work for them.
But part of me feels very uncomfortable about it. I'm not going to drop out of the election. I do think my voters should seriously reconsider voting for Fishball.
Just wondering, have you given any thought to this situation?
On October 31 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: also the mafia just voted for me
On October 31 2010 08:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Additional Mafia vote: ##DoctorHelvetica
Artanis confirmed to me this is a real vote.
If this is true (Artanis please confirm), then you should stop and think.
Why does the Mafia want me to be Mayor instead of the others? Why not Fishball? (2nd closest candidate) What do they have up their sleeves? You should rally your votes over to me imo.
It's possible that the scum voter in question wasn't aware that his alignment would be revealed upon voting, and simply thought that taking the confirmed election winner as a vote would be the least suspicious action. This could really mean nothing, especially since this announcement seems to be confined to a single scum role; otherwise, we'd have nine [red] statements in that voting thread instead of the one. Given the isolation of the vote, it's not unreasonable to think that this event is a fluke that was not expected by the voter.
Of course, it's best not to rule out any possibilities. You're right in that the Doc needs to evaluate why the Mafia would vote for him, but perhaps shifting votes to you is a bit rash. Not saying I'm against you being Mayor, but we shouldn't be hasty over something we don't yet understand.
It seems kinda defeatist to willingly cede votes to another when you've all but clinched the election. I can't really think of any way that Mafia could manipulate the Mayor, short of having some crazy-ass "remote-control" role that allows the user to choose the night action the target does. That possibility is unlikely anyway, so I don't feel it warrants surrendering your lead.
I am considering the situation you just brought up and considering this booger thing there might be something to it.
I'm not conceding to Fishball, I'm recognizing his legitimacy as a candidate. I feel people should really evaluate their vote and make a decision.
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
SiNiquity is my first choice at the moment. Similar post to youngminii but I feel more confident that his actual vote was scummy than youngs.
I feel that Pandain or BumAtLarge have the highest chances of being scum mayor so I'm looking at their supporters and posting atm.
There is some truth to this, I've been looking through the thread and I've noticed a little something relevant. I think a few of us have suggested lynching a candidate. If there was no mafia candidate, I'd imagine a few scum would say that would seem like a good idea. But it was basically you, fishball and myself who have hinted at doing this. No one commented on it. I think it's likely one of the candidates are scum. Though we only really mentioned it when we were looking like we were gaining soe ground in the race. Kill Pandain I say :D
Pandain is my second choice for now but I'm not sure since he claims to have an uber important role. But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
I have a weird feeling about Nemesis. his vote is for pandain but iirc he supported me mostly in this thread. correct me if I'm wrong maybe I'm thinking about someone else.
Also if the boogerthrower knows the identity of the mafia voter somehow, come out and claim. You'll be medic protected 100%.
On October 31 2010 07:59 infinitestory wrote: WHAT THE-
things I note: #1 the circle DEFINITELY exists #2 Artanis is very much capable of lying in the role PM #3 fuck.
any thoughts? Read artanis' orgolove-modkill post carefully: he notes that even thought the role PM states a 10% chance of killing the target, he reveals that it's actually a 0% chance.
this puts us all under equal suspicion of insanity though does it not?
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
SiNiquity is my first choice at the moment. Similar post to youngminii but I feel more confident that his actual vote was scummy than youngs.
I feel that Pandain or BumAtLarge have the highest chances of being scum mayor so I'm looking at their supporters and posting atm.
There is some truth to this, I've been looking through the thread and I've noticed a little something relevant. I think a few of us have suggested lynching a candidate. If there was no mafia candidate, I'd imagine a few scum would say that would seem like a good idea. But it was basically you, fishball and myself who have hinted at doing this. No one commented on it. I think it's likely one of the candidates are scum. Though we only really mentioned it when we were looking like we were gaining soe ground in the race. Kill Pandain I say :D
Pandain is my second choice for now but I'm not sure since he claims to have an uber important role. But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
I have a weird feeling about Nemesis. his vote is for pandain but iirc he supported me mostly in this thread. correct me if I'm wrong maybe I'm thinking about someone else.
Also if the boogerthrower knows the identity of the mafia voter somehow, come out and claim. You'll be medic protected 100%.
I don't understand why I'm under suspicion except for a couple facts: 1.Like 5 people voted me without a "sufficient" explanation. 2.I'm one of the running canidates.
Obviously the second one is the most convincing one, as I severely doubt that mafia could just sit back and let town take the election. So that leaves Dr. H(to be confirmed), Fishball, Bumatlarge, and Me.
The fact that people voted for you without sufficient explanation is exactly why you are under suspicion. What reason would they have to vote for you at all? There were plenty of candidates that started running (myself and ghrur to name a couple off the top of my head) that got no votes. Why would they choose you without any good reason to?
I'm more concerned with the way he just handed the election to me after it was clear I was winning, when he was so critical of me before, and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
Pandain can you confirm your role if you are not elected and if it is a role that confirms itself to a single other player I would request you confirm it to me. I won't roleclaim for you but I'll confirm your innocence to the town.
On October 31 2010 09:10 Kenpachi wrote: LOL THE BOOGER. well, would it be that someone has a nosepicking related profile? is he even mafia?
also, i am not the elder guys. Is it even confirmed if HE is the mafia either? ~_~
There are no clues in this game, so profiles are irrelevant to the outcome. Either someone has a role involving nosepicking, or Artanis has a weird sense of humor.
Actually, I think Artanis has a weird sense of humor anyway. I mean, look at the Doc's role. >_>
On October 31 2010 09:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Pandain can you confirm your role if you are not elected and if it is a role that confirms itself to a single other player I would request you confirm it to me. I won't roleclaim for you but I'll confirm your innocence to the town.
I'm confused by what you mean. Yes, my role will work just as well without being elected, albeit this means I would request medics to protect me since I will not have bodyguards. The way I can confirm my role would actually sort of reveal my role. I would welcome DT's to check me, and then they can confirm who I am to the circle.
I see. I was thinking your idea was something like mine which confirms itself in private to another player.
I'm satisfied with that and your posting is making me feel more confident in you as a protown player.
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
SiNiquity is my first choice at the moment. Similar post to youngminii but I feel more confident that his actual vote was scummy than youngs.
I feel that Pandain or BumAtLarge have the highest chances of being scum mayor so I'm looking at their supporters and posting atm.
I don't really care at this point, so go ahead. I got some rehashed weak role that has no interesting mechanics what-so-ever anyway. I'm ultimately green (as opposed to blue) -_-
You should start questioning your confidence more though if you're more confident I'm scum (esp after this stupid orgo shit which, btw, I think was mod-killed for 'childish' reasons, but w/e). I don't care to get involved in day 1 shenanigans, I never do, primarily because the thread moves far too fast for me to keep up with the little amount of time I devote to these games. As for my vote, I moved it from Fish to you because I thought you had a powerful role (certainly more powerful than the allsuive "my role is 'critical'" shit Fish was selling) only to find out I just bought a shamwow
I hate that you must martyred yourself. I don't know if this is a mafia player to get me to switch my kill or if you really just don't give a shit about this game. If the latter is the case then I should probably lynch YM instead.
On October 31 2010 09:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm a Nurse not a doctor anyway I don't care what people call me ;o
I submitted: 1.SiNiquity 2.youngminii 3.Divinek
Why divinek?
I'm feeling that pandain is protown the more he's posting. Divinek was on the bumatlarge votee least (who is in my mind the most suspicious mayoral candidate) and I don't like his posts. He's hardly posted in the thread.
On October 29 2010 15:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: omg guys what if fishball bumatlarge are both scum and bumatlarge backed out so that when fishball flips scum he'll look town
are we going to turn this whole thread into wifom
I was half joking. This is his first real post with no real impact.
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
i think it's beyond silly to say they can be assuredly confirmed in any way. There is got to be a high chance of having some kind of framer role, and what better choice than a mayor that's trying to say hey guyz i can be verified
Strange that you voted for bumatlarge whose role confirmation is highly important in this game. If he can indeed give players the power to PM him, he is very powerful indeed.
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise.
I can't fathom any way you can do this that doesn't involve the possibility of you just getting your mafia buddies to help you do whatever it is you say you can do
I dont like the idea of just picking someone for what they say they are able to be or capable of. I'm more inclined to go with someone who has shown they can actually be useful instead of spewing confirmability.
Whatever it is you say you can do to confirm yourself i have no doubt the host put in something to make it possible to compromise the integrity of your claim. It's silly that you could try to be concrete on something so unknown to anyone.
I would rather have someone leading with clearly good intentions and capable of doing something instead of saying well guys i can be confirmed, cause once someone gets elected the spot lights so heavy it's ridiculous anyway
I can understand this post as it came before I went into more detail about my role.
This kind of play seems consistent with Divineks scum play and he is in third place so it's unlikely he'll be grabbed. I'd like to see him post more.
I'm considering changing that to deconduo who has barely posted here at all.
Also I'd like the town to consider the possibililty that there is no scum mayor candidate (at least a main one) and mafia are going to use that to push suspicion onto each town mayor, knowing they have what is probably a powerful role.
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
SiNiquity is my first choice at the moment. Similar post to youngminii but I feel more confident that his actual vote was scummy than youngs.
I feel that Pandain or BumAtLarge have the highest chances of being scum mayor so I'm looking at their supporters and posting atm.
I don't really care at this point, so go ahead. I got some rehashed weak role that has no interesting mechanics what-so-ever anyway. I'm ultimately green (as opposed to blue) -_-
You should start questioning your confidence more though if you're more confident I'm scum (esp after this stupid orgo shit which, btw, I think was mod-killed for 'childish' reasons, but w/e). I don't care to get involved in day 1 shenanigans, I never do, primarily because the thread moves far too fast for me to keep up with the little amount of time I devote to these games. As for my vote, I moved it from Fish to you because I thought you had a powerful role (certainly more powerful than the allsuive "my role is 'critical'" shit Fish was selling) only to find out I just bought a shamwow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwRISkyV_B8
I hate that you must martyred yourself. I don't know if this is a mafia player to get me to switch my kill or if you really just don't give a shit about this game. If the latter is the case then I should probably lynch YM instead.
Not only that, but it frustrates me when people want to play, and then get mad they didn't get a fun role, and screw the rest of the players over.
Exactly what I was thinking, jcarlsoniv. I mean, my role isn't exactly the sort of "OMG IMBA DEATH RAY" the Doc and Fishball have... in fact, it's really a glorified standard blue role, but I already have a few ideas on how to use it.
Innovation, SinNiquity. You gotta make your role work for you.
DrH doesn't have an imba death ray. His role, as claimed, is effectively a heavily nerfed plague doctor.
On October 31 2010 09:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Also I'd like the town to consider the possibililty that there is no scum mayor candidate (at least a main one) and mafia are going to use that to push suspicion onto each town mayor, knowing they have what is probably a powerful role.
This statement sounds to me like you could be trying to draw attention away from the possibility that there is/are mafia amongst the mayor candidates. The possibility of there being a mafia mayor candidate is the primary reason we brought up the very excellent plan of investigating the mayor candidates first. If you ask me, all four major candidates (bum, fish, you, panda) have said nothing to swing me one way or the other on townieness decisively.
I'm not saying it's likely that there is no mafia amongst the mayor, I'm merely stating it as a possibility. Seeing as you brought up just about every hypothetical situation regarding the uses of my role and the possible loopholes I'm sure you have no issue with this.
I could just as well say "oh sounds to me like you're trying to discount the possibility that there is a possibility of there being no mafia mayors" and so on
It should be noted mayor is very underpowered in this game compared to normal games.
On October 31 2010 10:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So SiNiquity martyred himself I guess. I wish we would have hit a mafia with the lynch but at least 1 got modkilled, a good thing for us.
YoungMinii was my first choice and he survived the lynch. This is very important to note.
On October 31 2010 14:00 Hyperbola wrote: I don't seem to understand Siniquity's death. Was he subbed for youngminii or did youngminii leave town for a night?
I'm not sure. Artanis brought up the possibility that there are roles in this game that can somehow avoid a lynch. YoungMinii was my first choice. Either he has a role that can avoid a lynch or someone else has a role that can prevent a specific individual from being lynched. For whatever reason youngminii could not be lynched and SiNiquity, my second choice, was lynched instead.
I'm guessing exactly how this happened is something Artanis can't and won't tell us although it's worth asking.
That's a fantastic post kingjames. You brought up a lot of good points but I would say that number 4 is probably little more than a jab at fox news. You're canadian so perhaps you aren't aware of it but "fair and balanced" is a joke at Fox's motto since they are well known for their conservative bias.
In fact me and Artanis were joking about them and the phrase just a few days ago on MSN.
It would be nice if Artanis could confirm something.
Will there be any clues whatsoever in day posts? Anything at all in the wording of the post that could be applied to the game or is everything pretty much for flavor?
Clearing that up will prevent us from talking about it in the future if it is, indeed, irrelevant.
To clarify I notified LSB/Artanis that CubEdIn PM'd me. I will post the log of our PM's to the town so you can see that he did not give me any information that he did not also post here.
But please mentioned that I posted in the thread shortly after I found that PMs were illegal, I don't wanna get modkilled so fast.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: You roleclaimed to me and gave me some pretty critical information.
This is of course very helpful to us as the town, what you have told me. but I can't in good conscience not tell Artanis.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From CubEdIn: ah sorry, I just read the rule in the OP.
Worry not, I shall paste it in the thread.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: you know you can't pm right?
does your role allow you to pm people?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From CubEdIn: Hi guy.
Seems that you're the mayor. Gratz.
I decided to roleclaim on day1, on someone I'd trust most. Since it was too confusing, I then decided to roleclaim to the mayor, whoever it may be.
I am a doctor. Nothing more, nothing less. However, the Mafia knows this. Here is why:
I was given the choice of the red pill or the blue pill. If I took the the red pill I would become a doctor, but the mafia is told of my role. If I took the blue pill, I would become a normal townie. I am allowed to protect myself as a doctor.
So, if you were mafia, then you would already know this. If you're not, well I think I could be of help, but since Mafia knows of my role, I will try to protect myself as much as possible (denying a hit will be just as good as denying some other kill imo, unless we're sure the mafia honed in on a very important blue).
Also, I was thinking that since I'll be protecting myself during night one, I suggest you poke me with your stick to see what happens. If I get infected, I can cure myself, if not, you can tell that I'm blue, and you can tell what happens when you poke people with minimal risk.
This would also give me faith in you being what you claim you are, since the mafia vote was pretty suspicious (i'm thinking there could be more than one mafia do-gooder). But I'm not demanding that you poke me, it was just a suggestion.
I decided to roleclaim on day1, on someone I'd trust most. Since it was too confusing, I then decided to roleclaim after the mayor was picked, whoever it may be.
I am a doctor. However, the Mafia knows this. Here is why:
I was given the choice of the red pill or the blue pill. If I took the the red pill I would become a doctor, but the mafia is told of my role. If I took the blue pill, I would become a normal townie. I am allowed to protect myself as a doctor.
So, if you were mafia, then you would already know this. If you're not, well I think I could be of help, but since Mafia knows of my role, I will try to protect myself as much as possible (denying a hit will be just as good as denying some other kill imo, unless we're sure the mafia honed in on a very important blue).
Also, I was thinking that since I'll be protecting myself during night one, I suggest that Dr.H poked me with his stick to see what happens. If I got infected, I can cure myself, if not, you can tell that I'm blue, (assuming nobody is infected yet) and you can tell what happens when you poke people with minimal risk.
This would also give some faith in you being what you claim you are, since the mafia vote was pretty suspicious (i'm thinking there could be more than one mafia do-gooder). But I'm not demanding that DrH pokes me, it was just a suggestion.
On October 31 2010 16:08 CubEdIn wrote: P.S.: I have also PMed Dr.H with this, since I didn't get to read that PMs were illegal unless both players were mafia. I hope this doesn't get me deadded, it won't happen again.
EXACTLY WHEN did you PM DrH? I want to know how long he's had this information. This will help me to decide if he purposely withheld information and what his intentions were.
Also, what's the name of your Role? We need all the information that we can get.
I'm not going to poke CubEdIn due to the huge possibility that he will be modkilled. Unless a mod confirms that won't be the case, I'll probably poke him.
I think it is very possible there is a bus driver role that switched youngminii and SiNiquity, causing my lynch to go through to SiN. Or there is a role that can hide during the night, or hide someone else.
I very much doubt youngminii has a role that makes him permanently immune to lynches and that if that role existed it would certainly not be a scum role.
Medics should protect our most experienced players for now. Period. That's Fishball, Bumatlarge, Ace, BrownBear, infundibulum, and possibly Divinek (not sure exactly how much of a vet he is)
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.
Nevermind, you are correct. I misstated: The bodyguard prevents the Mayor from being hit, either during day or during night, and can't die except by Murrayitis or getting lynched.
Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway?
I just asked Artanis that question. It's worded to make it sound like the bodyguard can only be lynched.
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.
No comment.
Nevermind, you are correct. I misstated: The bodyguard prevents the Mayor from being hit, either during day or during night, and can't die except by Murrayitis or getting lynched.
Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway?
Is it that revealing this will reveal another aspect of your role that can be vital for town? If so, just say that. Because as of now you dodging just makes me incrediably wary of you. If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle. I'm unsure how to do that however while still trying to get the doc(doc h that is) connected. Also, if the bodyguard can only be lynched it actually would be advisable for the bodyguard to claim so then we don't lynch him. Of course, that seems a bit OP for town so I would think there must be a lynch-related role of changing the lynch target...
Hmm..... if only there was such a role...
*wonder why I'm so suscipcious of you*
why are you fishing so hard for him to claim? if there is a role that dodges lynches/hides at night I highly doubt it is a scum role. In fact it seem even more likely to me that he was acted upon by another more manipulative role.
On November 01 2010 03:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think it is very possible there is a bus driver role that switched youngminii and SiNiquity, causing my lynch to go through to SiN. Or there is a role that can hide during the night, or hide someone else.
I very much doubt youngminii has a role that makes him permanently immune to lynches and that if that role existed it would certainly not be a scum role.
Medics should protect our most experienced players for now. Period. That's Fishball, Bumatlarge, Ace, BrownBear, infundibulum, and possibly Divinek (not sure exactly how much of a vet he is)
Medics should NOT protect me obviously.
Huh missed this. I didn't think a bus driver was able to switch lynches.... And I'm confused by what you mean by "hide during the night."
And I disagree about a role immune to lynches being a town role. To me, a role immune to night hits would be town, a role immune to lynches would be mafia. Who's going to get hit at night? Town(mafia/town if there are vigis) Who's going to be lynched in day? mafia/town
A role involving immunity to lynches would almost certainly be a scum role in my eyes. If you can point out another game where it was not, I would be much obliged.
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.
Well let's find out:
Artanis, can a bodyguard be lynched?
A scum role that avoids lynches permanently is broken since we'd have to rely on using a single vigi hit to win the game, presumably.
And don't assume a bus driver couldn't switch lynchees in this game. This is Insane Mafia and we need to throw our previous conclusions about how roles should work out the window. At least to some degree.
Although my top 2 when I told the town who I was going to lynch was SiN and THEN youngminii, I changed my mind after SiN's martyring post.
Perhaps a busdriver switched SiN and young, trying to save SiN only to have the opposite effect? It seems plausible enough but I'm not sure there is any real way to know and having YM role claim is just going to paint a new big target for the mafia forcing our medics to spread even thinner.
@InfiniteStory There are many roles that could be twisted to do this that are fairly standard/used in mafia games. Roles like the hider, commuter, bus driver, etc.
On November 01 2010 04:07 youngminii wrote: Seriously Pandain? The lynch is the town's greatest weapon, you can't make scum immune to lynches without making the game horribly imbalanced.
In any case, why don't you think about it carefully before telling me to claim? If I'm invincible, no one will believe me. If I'm immune to lynches, mafia will kill me. If I'm able to manipulate something, that will make me just as suspicious as I am now.
Stop being an idiot and play the game properly. You always do this over-analytical crap which doesn't work. Go back a step and think before you post. Maybe you should start with the first post where clearly says PMs are not allowed.
i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
It seems possible that on a night when you are out of town, you would not be able to protect me.
Can Artanis confirm this? I know he can't confirm that you are the bodyguard so let me word my question thusly: If a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?
I know you didn't read the thread entirely, so I'll just tell you it's already known by know there are roles where pms are allowed. If you're invincible, town(at least me) is not going to be like "wtf". If your immune, well then actually we might let you die if it will help other roles live
So you're assuming that I can PM people and your argument is that I should be roleclaiming through PMs?
And please, tell me how letting me die is a good thing? Back up your arguments. In any case, your posts have been hugely scummy to me, but then again they always are. I've never been in a mafia game where you've given solid arguments as a townie.
there is supposedly a role in this game that can pass on the power of PM's to others, I believe that is what he is referring to
f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?
This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away.
Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer.
Maybe.
I just talked to him about it on MSN.
In the words of Artanis
"If the definition of the night action is only that he can't be targetted by night actions, then nothing in that includes not being able to protect the mayor."
On November 01 2010 03:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think it is very possible there is a bus driver role that switched youngminii and SiNiquity, causing my lynch to go through to SiN. Or there is a role that can hide during the night, or hide someone else.
I very much doubt youngminii has a role that makes him permanently immune to lynches and that if that role existed it would certainly not be a scum role.
Medics should protect our most experienced players for now. Period. That's Fishball, Bumatlarge, Ace, BrownBear, infundibulum, and possibly Divinek (not sure exactly how much of a vet he is)
Medics should NOT protect me obviously.
Huh missed this. I didn't think a bus driver was able to switch lynches.... And I'm confused by what you mean by "hide during the night."
And I disagree about a role immune to lynches being a town role. To me, a role immune to night hits would be town, a role immune to lynches would be mafia. Who's going to get hit at night? Town(mafia/town if there are vigis) Who's going to be lynched in day? mafia/town
A role involving immunity to lynches would almost certainly be a scum role in my eyes. If you can point out another game where it was not, I would be much obliged.
On November 01 2010 03:53 Aeres wrote:
On November 01 2010 03:49 Pandain wrote:
On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.
Well let's find out:
Artanis, can a bodyguard be lynched?
A scum role that avoids lynches permanently is broken since we'd have to rely on using a single vigi hit to win the game, presumably.
And don't assume a bus driver couldn't switch lynchees in this game. This is Insane Mafia and we need to throw our previous conclusions about how roles should work out the window. At least to some degree.
Although my top 2 when I told the town who I was going to lynch was SiN and THEN youngminii, I changed my mind after SiN's martyring post.
Perhaps a busdriver switched SiN and young, trying to save SiN only to have the opposite effect? It seems plausible enough but I'm not sure there is any real way to know and having YM role claim is just going to paint a new big target for the mafia forcing our medics to spread even thinner.
@InfiniteStory There are many roles that could be twisted to do this that are fairly standard/used in mafia games. Roles like the hider, commuter, bus driver, etc.
If a lynch-swapping bus driver exists, I'm convinced that would be town, since otherwise we would be almost unable to lynch a mafia (a red lynch-swapping bus driver would always switch the lynch to a townie unless our top two in votes are reds every single time).
However, like I said earlier, that bus driver would have to be certain youngminii is valuable and by extension probably know his alignment. That would indicate either they're both mason-like roles (unlikely, since the bus driver is already a bus driver), or they're both reds. But I've already noted that a red lynch-swapping bus driver would be ridiculously OP. Contradiction.
Therefore, I'm convinced youngminii's role saved him, making him a likely blue.
I looked around mafia scum roles related to lynches. What jumped out at me was the role "Unlynchable" which merely survives the first lynch. This can be either a town or mafia role, although it seems it's typically a pro-town role.
Not saying that's YM's role, but this is not enough to confirm his as town by any means.
On November 01 2010 04:24 Veldril wrote: From what I see of the first day lynch; I think for this game, the top three votes will be taken into account. It is very likely that there is a role that would prevent the "top" voted player to avoid the lynch, be it one time or can use all the game long.
Young's case could be either ways; he has a role that immune to lynch (more likely one time, since permanent immunity is slightly too OP), or he has someone protected him with or without him knowing. We need to get more information before we can conclude which is the case.
Right now, I think it is agreeable that medic should protect veterans first. However; from what I see from Sinquity's role, I think most medics would also be able to cure Murrayitis, which could be a decisive factor in this game. But since we don't have any infected player yet, the curing of Murrayitis is moot for the time being, but it should be discussed more on the next night.
I want to ask you guys something too. Would it be a good idea to analyze the Murrayitis's mechanics and how it would affect the game in the long run? I think I find it's interesting but I'm not sure if other players agree or not.
Murrayitis, for now, is something we have to be very aware of but it's also something thats effects will become much more significant as the game wears on. Our main priority is scumhunting.
If DC didn't claim as bodyguard, meaning that we misunderstood him, or that he lied I'm not really sure what to make of it. It's a very odd play but it isn't one that seems scummy unless he thought for sure that the other bodyguard wouldn't claim under any circumstance
On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Why would you say this if you only think there are 2 bodyguards because of dcx's 'claim'?
great catch
it's possible this is a mafia play to waste medic actions on alternating days?
perhaps mafia can sub in a bodyguard? a DT should check aeres
On November 01 2010 06:17 Ace wrote: Guys, stop and think for a second.
Misder and Pandain both tried to ask youngminii for information, pretty much trying to force a role claim.
AT NIGHT!.
we can't vote right now so why force a roleclain out of youngminii? Both of them need to be looked at heavily from now on. If you're a Detective please investigate one of these guys and if they flip Scum do some damage.
except I didn't, and I said we should try getting him into contact with a pm circle if he feels he shouldn't share. But fine, you have a good point about it being night. Afterwards, I'm still pushing for him to explain.
This is correct
Pandain said
I don't want him to claim in thread if it hurts(thus through pms) and I don't even want him to claim entirely. I just want to know why he's not dead. Remember this is insane mafia, we need to make sense of what's happening.
However I will note that he changed his stance after I called him out on aggressive fishing that he did here:
Is it that revealing this will reveal another aspect of your role that can be vital for town? If so, just say that. Because as of now you dodging just makes me incrediably wary of you. If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle. I'm unsure how to do that however while still trying to get the doc(doc h that is) connected. Also, if the bodyguard can only be lynched it actually would be advisable for the bodyguard to claim so then we don't lynch him. Of course, that seems a bit OP for town so I would think there must be a lynch-related role of changing the lynch target...
This is a pretty weak qualifier. Bum claims he can bring one person per night into the PMing circle and my guess is that YM wasn't his first choice, it seems unlikely that this scenario would occur at all and the only other alternative Pandain presents is an open roleclaim.
I'm wary. You did later say you don't want him to claim if it hurts but that could very well be to save face.
On November 01 2010 06:57 Coagulation wrote: well regardless we need to get to the bottom of the youngminii thing somehow i think thats the point hes trying to make. i still feel like there is a good possibility that his ability is either a red ability or he was saved by a red allie. i dont want this to just blow under the radar
so are you saying he should roleclaim? what should we do about it?
Lexpar only has a SINGLE post that is even game related in this thread
On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote: I'm voting for Bumatlarge. Honestly I'm not very impressed by how any of the other candidates have been conducting themselves.
Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him. I know he hasn't posted in like 30 minutes (ie. 45 pages omfg), but we shouldn't forget about his candidacy and bandwagon onto Doc.H, and certainly not Pandain.
On November 01 2010 05:18 Fishball wrote: Just a wee bit if info, in case something does happen to me.
- One of the remaining members have already role claimed to me, and I have informed him of my role as well. - The other member have not replied to me yet, and does not know of my role. He also does not know of the member's role who have role claimed to me. - It is possible that there is still one more Mafia in this circle (if both of them are Mafia, then it doesn't really matter...), especially if one of them die (not me, as I'm already out in the open), unless Mafia just got "lucky" and hit one of them. Regardless, if this case happens, I will have to come forward and announce who is the remaining member and go forth with the investigation.
Did everyone miss this post? What the hell does "claimed to me, and I have informed him of my role as well." mean?
By PM?
If you have been following this game you would know Fishball is part of a neutral PM circle that included Orgolove and ShmotZ both of whom died.
On November 01 2010 07:56 Node wrote: I'm posting this now to prove I'm not full of shit if I survive the night and get an opportunity to explain myself come daytime:
BrownBear will die tonight.
Interesting. I sure hope you can explain yourself : /
It would be very easy for mafia to kill someone then fake a role that can discern who will die or something like that.
I've felt very comfortable with your posting thus far but I hope your explanation is satisfactory or this makes you look very suspicious.
On November 01 2010 07:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote: L in this game? with Ace?
oh lawd
They have some sort of history?
Well they're both really experienced and when the two get to arguing, sparks will fly
I thought the sparks were already flying, what with you, Orgolove, Pandain, and youngminii. Do L and Ace not like each other, or are they both just master orators?
I don't know if they like each other or not but they are both good players and Ace has a particularly fierce way of arguing that can get things pretty heated.
They went at it pretty hard in one of Incognito's games and it was fun (albeit intimidating) to watch.
L is a character from the anime/manga Death Note in which he is the worlds best detective tracking down a serial killer of sorts with a magic notebook that kills anyone whose name is written in it.
On November 01 2010 07:56 Glasse wrote: If masq gets replaced by L we have a confirmed detective.
Wouldn't they have the same role?
oh
don't be so misleading
sorry i thought it was going to be obvious enough :3
I guess not everybody is into anime
The only good anime I've ever seen was Clannad (After Story plot twist sucked balls).
But enough chatter, I wanna see what happens in the Day 2 post. =O We get Double Lynches at this point, which is cool.
double lynches need to be saved for the late game when we can draw out potential mafia alliances based on DT actions and previous successful lynches.
also @node, an RNG townie kill? I don't like the idea of that at all. Could it be a role that determines to kill one person during the day rather than the night?
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: This is Radio LOONY! With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red. I wish I was mayor. I am the serious cat. Meow, Meow, :3 RISE AND SHINE YOU IDIOTS.
your posting is funny and cute but honestly at this point you are shitting up the thread. I'm requesting that you please stop, no one wants to wade through a bunch of your spam and god forbid someone take your current nonsense seriously.
So I can't play this game how i want to play it anymore? Not everyone's post need to 10 page long analysis on random posts. I don't feel the need to post my analysis out in the open and give reds time to react and make up more shit. If something really important comes up you'll know. Also, hopefully someone takes my nonsense seriously, i am serious cat and this is a serious election.
On October 31 2010 05:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: One thing I want to point out:
On October 31 2010 05:01 Kenpachi wrote: ##Elect DoctorHelvetica
From voting thread. Kenpachi has not posted once since the game started. Let's keep a closer eye on lurkers than we did in Haunted.
I started a list of lurkers but it's as home, if a list isn't posted by 8 or so tonigh when I get home I'll post mine.
Another quick reason why to vote for doc, he's already stated his day one lynch would be youngminii who so far has been the scummiest player.
I no longer feel youngminii is the scummiest.
In fact I would like to hear from every townie who their #1 suspect is of scum, if they have one at all. I would like to hear other peoples opinions. There has been a lot of campaign shitflinging and very little scumhunting of any sort. I don't think the mafia feel very pressured right now.
You are my #1 scum suspect.
Is this a reference to this post you made? I also remember a mayoral candidate posting a picture of serious cat in the thread.
I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red. I wish I was mayor. I am the serious cat. Meow, Meow, :3 RISE AND SHINE YOU IDIOTS.
Hey there DrH, how's it going?
It's going well.
My guess is there is a role that can communicate through day posts somehow and it is either Glasse or someone trying to put suspicion on Glasse. Perhaps a scum role, perhaps not. Glasse did say a few times in the thread that he thinks I'm red so I suppose this would make sense.
Although he provided zero reasoning for it, of course.
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: During the night, hardly anyone can sleep. It wasn't just all the trick or treaters, everyone was busy doing something.
One poor dude? He found that his door got duct taped over so he couldn't get out. Luckly for him, he wouldn't have arrived at the right's person's home (some idiot kidnapped the people). As he staggered around looking for help, another person decided to take his clothes, and replace them with a weird smelling rag. At least other people came and helped him, after prodding him for two hours. That poor guy
At least some people stayed quiet. One person left the town to do some illegal activity legally, another person put on his favorite lingerie and admired himself all night.
Annul decided to stalk his favorite person. However, after he put on his black clothes, black mask, and black gloves. Someone helped him by wrapping a black scarf around his neck. Killing him. Afterwards a completely different person arrived, played on the tire swing for a while, and left.
BrownBear was minding his own business, he didn’t do anything wrong! He had all the tools he needed to mess up the elections, but as they say. It never pays to be good. BrownBear died for being good. Kids, honesty never pays off.
Kingjames found something underneath his home. It was a giant pumpkin. Luckily for him the giant pumpkin wasn’t dangerous. However, the Giant Potato that was right beside it blew up and killed him
More people started coughing. Three people are infected
You are the Swaparoo! You never were one of fair elections, so why would lynches be fair? Once per day, you may PM me to change the vote of a player in the lynch vote. Your own vote doesn't count, but you still have to post it.
You are the Self-Conscious lazy Vigilante! You like sleeping long hours and due to this you are often forgetful about your plans to assassinate someone. Since you're aware of this, you've decided you'll just hit in the day instead. Once in the game, you may PM me to put a hit on someone. But, should you hit a non-mafia player, you are consumed by guilt and jump in front of the nearest train.
You are Bullet Bill! You love bullets and the smell of gunpowder so much you named your son '50 Cal. At night you can target a player and find out if they are carrying a gun.
You are the Bodyguard!
This is Radio LOONY! With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red. I wish I was mayor. I am the serious cat. Meow, Meow, :3 RISE AND SHINE YOU IDIOTS.
Masq is being replaced by L, Everyone say "Hi L!"
This seems very odd. Node, do you think this kill and the description of it could be related to the +1 mafia kill power? "Killed for doing good"
Clues: There are no clues in this game. Clues suck.
unless its been changed...
there are clear and obvious references to roles, but there are no clues referring to players specifically (i.e we cannot determined who killed who from the night post)
but it seems we are being given a summary of different things that happened during the night. are you trying to get us not to analyse the day post at all? are you worried about what conclusions we may draw?
On November 01 2010 08:39 Glasse wrote: It's possible i was roleblocked too then :3
wtf.
If I poke and I don't get a PM response from the mod then it is supposed to mean my poke was successful and they don't have murrayitis. If I am roleblocked then I might not be made aware which would trick me into thinking I confirmed to a player when nothing actually happened.
On November 01 2010 08:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It's possible I was roleblocked in that case.
On November 01 2010 08:37 Lexpar wrote: Same.
On November 01 2010 08:39 Glasse wrote: It's possible i was roleblocked too then :3
wtf.
If I poke and I don't get a PM response from the mod then it is supposed to mean my poke was successful and they don't have murrayitis. If I am roleblocked then I might not be made aware which would trick me into thinking I confirmed to a player when nothing actually happened.
or you could be the god father pretending to be a nurse....
On November 01 2010 08:42 CubEdIn wrote: Well this is confusing.
So now, most of the game revolves around DrH.
If he manages to lynch a red tonight, we can be pretty sure he's townie. Either way, the Mafia can either - go for him, since he's the mayor and one bodyguard is dead - not go for him, since if he lynches townies and we get a few more of these incriminating posts, the townies might turn against him eventually.
My main concern is that we really don't know if we should trust DrH or not. I was hoping on his poke revealing something, but he got (conveniently) role-blocked.
We should have some form of trust going on, but there's nothing of the kind. I just hope some sort of Mafia dies, or we're gonna be sinking fast.
The second part here is possibly a BIG slip up.
Firstly, the mayor only decides the lynch on day 1. From now on we as a town vote together. My vote is worth 2 votes.
Secondly how do you know if I was roleblocked? I don't even know that for sure. jcarlsoniv is the only one who can confirm whether I was roleblocked or not. The only way you could know if I was roleblocked, is if you are the roleblocker.
On November 01 2010 08:44 Glasse wrote: Somebody obviously has reason to think dr is red from what we seen from the post. I'd like to know who and why though :3
you said I was your #1 scum suspect near the end of the last day. I thought you thought i was red ;o
On November 01 2010 08:48 Glasse wrote: Yea i do think you are red, but its from my instinct. I guess if the guy that made the message in the post was trying to look like me he could of said it to make everyone think it was me...
Why though? I feel like putting a message in the post is not a super power unless he can mess with other things in the whole day post.
Yeah I agree with the latter part.
Instinct doesn't mean much here. If anything it's a convenient way to point suspicion on me and then call it instinct to back out of explaining it. I don't think you're red in fact I had previous suspicions that you mayyyyy be the village idiot. Not sure now.
On November 01 2010 08:42 CubEdIn wrote: Well this is confusing.
So now, most of the game revolves around DrH.
If he manages to lynch a red tonight, we can be pretty sure he's townie. Either way, the Mafia can either - go for him, since he's the mayor and one bodyguard is dead - not go for him, since if he lynches townies and we get a few more of these incriminating posts, the townies might turn against him eventually.
My main concern is that we really don't know if we should trust DrH or not. I was hoping on his poke revealing something, but he got (conveniently) role-blocked.
We should have some form of trust going on, but there's nothing of the kind. I just hope some sort of Mafia dies, or we're gonna be sinking fast.
The second part here is possibly a BIG slip up.
Firstly, the mayor only decides the lynch on day 1. From now on we as a town vote together. My vote is worth 2 votes.
Secondly how do you know if I was roleblocked? I don't even know that for sure. jcarlsoniv is the only one who can confirm whether I was roleblocked or not. The only way you could know if I was roleblocked, is if you are the roleblocker.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
On November 01 2010 08:42 CubEdIn wrote: Well this is confusing.
So now, most of the game revolves around DrH.
If he manages to lynch a red tonight, we can be pretty sure he's townie. Either way, the Mafia can either - go for him, since he's the mayor and one bodyguard is dead - not go for him, since if he lynches townies and we get a few more of these incriminating posts, the townies might turn against him eventually.
My main concern is that we really don't know if we should trust DrH or not. I was hoping on his poke revealing something, but he got (conveniently) role-blocked.
We should have some form of trust going on, but there's nothing of the kind. I just hope some sort of Mafia dies, or we're gonna be sinking fast.
The second part here is possibly a BIG slip up.
Firstly, the mayor only decides the lynch on day 1. From now on we as a town vote together. My vote is worth 2 votes.
Secondly how do you know if I was roleblocked? I don't even know that for sure. jcarlsoniv is the only one who can confirm whether I was roleblocked or not. The only way you could know if I was roleblocked, is if you are the roleblocker.
Sure, you're the one who posted that you got role-blocked.
You were supposed to poke me (you said so, if I recall correctly), which would have somewhat confirmed both our roles. You chose not to (and it's fair, you play the game however you want), and now nothing happened, but we're supposed to just believe that you actually DID something, but had no result. Why?
And yes, since you are the mayor, you have the most influence over the town, and not just because of the double vote. You wanted this, you are now the leader, it's basically your responsibility to hone in on Mafia. That's the way I see it, at least. Mayor doesn't only come with perks. It's only normal that if you lynch townies, people will start to think you're red.
Also: "He found that his door got duct taped over so he couldn't get out. Luckly for him, he wouldn't have arrived at the right's person's home (some idiot kidnapped the people). As he staggered around looking for help, another person decided to take his clothes, and replace them with a weird smelling rag. At least other people came and helped him, after prodding him for two hours. That poor guy."
Why exactly are you assuming that it's either YOU got role-blocked or he's clean? Why can't it be that special actions on one guy (like jcarl) just won't work. I get the "door duct taped so he couldn't get out" but the rest of the text doesn't look like the other people got role-blocked. And in the end he's out of the house anyway, it doesn't make much sense.
I said "I may have been roleblocked". I never EVER said I got role-blocked.
I decided to stick with jcarlsoniv because I thought after your roleclaim there was a higher chance you would be visited by mafia, a murrayitis spreader, or that you would even be roleblocked yourself. I thought for my first confirmation the best target would be a lower key player I felt was most likely town.
I'm not assuming that. There could very well be another manipulative role. If I was jcarls didn't receive a PM that means my role was somehow stopped from working by one method or another. The roleblock seems likely, but jcarls also could have been bussed, commuted, hidden, or any other infinite amount of possibilities.
All I did is bring up the possibility that I was roleblocked in the case that jcarls didn't get a pm which he has yet to even confirm. That's all. I never claimed to know, I never assumed it happened or would happen, and you're putting a lot onto me that I never said or implied.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
On November 01 2010 09:05 CubEdIn wrote: I'm only putting a lot on you because you're the mayor. Your actions count more than the others'. At least in my view.
I never said you said "for sure" that you got role-blocked, but you're the one that said that you could have had been role-blocked (god, English, stop being so twisted). So naturally, it made me suspicious. Of all the people that I want to be sure of, you're the most important. I was hoping to be able to role-check you SOMEHOW (not necessarily by poking me), and if we can't, it's frustrating.
Even more so that we can't actually believe ANYTHING that's happening or anything that anyone says (even though they might believe it themselves).
So put all that together with the fact that we still no nothing about our mayor during day 2, makes me itch. I want something that I can be at least semi-confident in, in this insane game. I'm sorry if it seems like rage towards you, but as I said, I have most suspicion and most faith going towards you.
Because jcarlsoniv hasn't posted yet. Until he posts I can't make ANY conclusions about whether or not I may have been roleblocked or not.
You said "you posted that you got roleblocked", not that "You posted that you might have been roleblocked". Is that what you meant? Because if thats what you meant thats what you should have said.
What I meant by "putting a lot on me" is "implying I said things that I didn't say and drawing conclusions from my posts that I never came to in the first place".
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
On November 01 2010 08:42 CubEdIn wrote: Well this is confusing.
So now, most of the game revolves around DrH.
If he manages to lynch a red tonight, we can be pretty sure he's townie. Either way, the Mafia can either - go for him, since he's the mayor and one bodyguard is dead - not go for him, since if he lynches townies and we get a few more of these incriminating posts, the townies might turn against him eventually.
My main concern is that we really don't know if we should trust DrH or not. I was hoping on his poke revealing something, but he got (conveniently) role-blocked.
We should have some form of trust going on, but there's nothing of the kind. I just hope some sort of Mafia dies, or we're gonna be sinking fast.
The second part here is possibly a BIG slip up.
Firstly, the mayor only decides the lynch on day 1. From now on we as a town vote together. My vote is worth 2 votes.
Secondly how do you know if I was roleblocked? I don't even know that for sure. jcarlsoniv is the only one who can confirm whether I was roleblocked or not. The only way you could know if I was roleblocked, is if you are the roleblocker.
I'm not sure why you're trying to take so much out of what could have been a minor typo. It was you who told me earlier not to look at "unlikely situations" such as you actually being the Murrayitis source, but here you are trying to draw the conclusion that Cubedin is a roleblocker off of a couple words, despite the fact that he has not only given us the name of his role but the intricacies of it. Cubed revealed at least as much about his role as you did about yours, so he should get the same level of town cred, right?
No I never accused him of being mafia. I never even put down an FoS or said he's probably mafia. I'm saying that only the mafia would know who did or didn't get roleblocked (assuming roleblocker is a mafia role) and that because I didn't say I got roleblocked it was strange that he posted as though he was sure of my roleblock when I wasn't.
More than likely he just misunderstood what I was saying, which is totally understandable. I didn't tell people not to look at the situation that I might be spreading murrayitis... in fact I even suggested plague doctors could visit the person I confirmed to make sure that wasn't the case. I said that several times.
On November 01 2010 09:05 CubEdIn wrote: I'm only putting a lot on you because you're the mayor. Your actions count more than the others'. At least in my view.
I never said you said "for sure" that you got role-blocked, but you're the one that said that you could have had been role-blocked (god, English, stop being so twisted). So naturally, it made me suspicious. Of all the people that I want to be sure of, you're the most important. I was hoping to be able to role-check you SOMEHOW (not necessarily by poking me), and if we can't, it's frustrating.
Even more so that we can't actually believe ANYTHING that's happening or anything that anyone says (even though they might believe it themselves).
So put all that together with the fact that we still no nothing about our mayor during day 2, makes me itch. I want something that I can be at least semi-confident in, in this insane game. I'm sorry if it seems like rage towards you, but as I said, I have most suspicion and most faith going towards you.
Because jcarlsoniv hasn't posted yet. Until he posts I can't make ANY conclusions about whether or not I may have been roleblocked or not.
You said "you posted that you got roleblocked", not that "You posted that you might have been roleblocked". Is that what you meant? Because if thats what you meant thats what you should have said.
What I meant by "putting a lot on me" is "implying I said things that I didn't say and drawing conclusions from my posts that I never came to in the first place".
I understand what you're saying, but to me it makes no difference.
If you are blue, then you really don't know if you got role-blocked or not, and neither do we, and we'll find out eventually.
If you are red, then you could just imply that you could've been role-blocked (you don't need to say "oh I was surely role-blocked" when "umm, i think i may have been" will do just as well), and have the same outcome.
So I understand you being annoyed for me trying to put words in your mouth, but in fact, I just meant that you're either trustworthy (and you really have no idea), or untrustworthy (and you can state/imply/hint at) whatever you want to draw suspicion away. I never elaborated on the fact that you knew you were role-blocked or not, I just said that (were you red), it would've been mighty convenient. I think that's the part of my original post that got misunderstood.
Alright. That's very fair.
Before we go any further with this I think it's best we wait for jcarlsoniv to post. We're talking way too much about the possibility of me being roleblocked when we can't possibly know until jcarls confirms that I poked him anyway.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
Everything points to DC being town, except: 1) he softclaimed bodyguard (by correcting Artanis on the definition, no less), when there was no good reason to do so. He then pretty much said it was intentional by saying "Artanis just confirmed my role." There's no good reason to do this as a townie. 2) He softclaimed bodyguard, and a (the only?) bodyguard just died.
His softclaim of bodyguard has yet to be confirmed by him. If he has a reason to do it as a townie I'd like him to tell us. He certainly has explaining to do, as well as Aeres, considering Annul was a bodyguard.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
The risk that it may be a set up by the mafia (less likely now, discussed later in the post). And that it would be a waste (remember, his role says that DXC is going to die, which implies that there is no way to save him). Note that I wrote my post before I read Node's latest posts. So Node seems to be hinting that there is a list that the mods have that kills people one by one. Quickstriker was first, then BB, then DXC. This seems like a random list, as Quickstricker was inactive and not a target that mafia would want to kill, and BB was pretty inactive too and also not a target that mafia would want to kill. DXC is someone that mafia would want to kill as he softclaimed bodygaurd, but if we follow the pattern, it isn't the mafia that chooses this list. This also implies that Node is town, and isn't setting this up.
I feel that he is likely town. Considering the potential danger of his role if he is mafia it's best to keep an eye on his posts closely, but I don't have any strong suspicions about him and I think his response to my initial proposition of the possibility that he could be mafia was fairly strong.
It could be an RNG'd list but I feel like it might be some sort of conditional kill. BrownBear's death said "he died for being good" that seems important to me and makes it seem unlikely that he was killed purely randomly.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
Everything points to DC being town, except: 1) he softclaimed bodyguard (by correcting Artanis on the definition, no less), when there was no good reason to do so. He then pretty much said it was intentional by saying "Artanis just confirmed my role." There's no good reason to do this as a townie. 2) He softclaimed bodyguard, and a (the only?) bodyguard just died.
His softclaim of bodyguard has yet to be confirmed by him. If he has a reason to do it as a townie I'd like him to tell us. He certainly has explaining to do, as well as Aeres, considering Annul was a bodyguard.
On November 01 2010 09:17 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:08 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:01 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 08:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
The risk that it may be a set up by the mafia (less likely now, discussed later in the post). And that it would be a waste (remember, his role says that DXC is going to die, which implies that there is no way to save him). Note that I wrote my post before I read Node's latest posts. So Node seems to be hinting that there is a list that the mods have that kills people one by one. Quickstriker was first, then BB, then DXC. This seems like a random list, as Quickstricker was inactive and not a target that mafia would want to kill, and BB was pretty inactive too and also not a target that mafia would want to kill. DXC is someone that mafia would want to kill as he softclaimed bodygaurd, but if we follow the pattern, it isn't the mafia that chooses this list. This also implies that Node is town, and isn't setting this up.
I feel that he is likely town. Considering the potential danger of his role if he is mafia it's best to keep an eye on his posts closely, but I don't have any strong suspicions about him and I think his response to my initial proposition of the possibility that he could be mafia was fairly strong.
It could be an RNG'd list but I feel like it might be some sort of conditional kill. BrownBear's death said "he died for being good" that seems important to me and makes it seem unlikely that he was killed purely randomly.
About the list- how can it be conditional? If everything Node says is true... then BB was "next in line". Unless its based on # of posts or when they post, then the mods wouldn't have been able to choose the next target on the list cause they can't predict the future actions.
That's assuming there is a list and it isn't a conditional mafia kill or a different mafia killing power that kills ahead of time.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
Are you sure about this? I'd like to know what this means, then:
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: One poor dude? He found that his door got duct taped over so he couldn't get out. Luckly for him, he wouldn't have arrived at the right's person's home (some idiot kidnapped the people). As he staggered around looking for help, another person decided to take his clothes, and replace them with a weird smelling rag. At least other people came and helped him, after prodding him for two hours. That poor guy
I am not told by the mods if my poke goes through, the player I poked has to confirm it.
Basically it works like this. I poke Player X.
Player X has murrayitis: They don't know I poked them I am told they have murrayitis
Player X doesn't have murrayitis: They know I poked them The mods tell me nothing
Meaning if I get nothing in return it can mean I was roleblocked, the player was switched out or hidden somehow, or some other role stopped me from acting. It can also mean the poke was successful and the person doesn't have murrayitis, which is up to that player to confirm that I poked them.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
This is not unlikely. Mafia knew that DH was going to try to confirm himself tonight by night action. So if there is a roleblocker in the game, mafia would probably make the easy decision to block him. On the other hand, DH is still not confirmed...
DrH, how in hell did you NOT think of this scenario when you promised us a foolproof way to prove your role?
I did and I figured if the roleblocker decided to target me it meant he would be wasting the majority of his roleblocks in an attempt to make me look bad preventing roles with bigger impacts on the game from being roleblocked in the first place.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
This is not unlikely. Mafia knew that DH was going to try to confirm himself tonight by night action. So if there is a roleblocker in the game, mafia would probably make the easy decision to block him. On the other hand, DH is still not confirmed...
DrH, how in hell did you NOT think of this scenario when you promised us a foolproof way to prove your role?
I did and I figured if the roleblocker decided to target me it meant he would be wasting the majority of his roleblocks in an attempt to make me look bad preventing roles with bigger impacts on the game from being roleblocked in the first place.
It's not just a roleblocker that could have done this btw.
Could be a bus driver, a commuter, a lightning rod type role, it could be any number of things.
If it's a bus driver that means that I poked somebody else, whoever jcarls was switched with.
On November 01 2010 09:29 Aeres wrote: Just saw this in the voting thread:
On November 01 2010 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 2 Jcarlsoniv: 1 Elder Vote
Nice. Now we should make a list of who posted since night. Aeres NB Glasse DH infinitestory kitaman Node Pandain deconduo Meapak ghrur Lexpar cubEdln Ace Fishball jcarls Misder
This list is long, and probably useless as the person can not post and PM Artanis/LSB but someone has something against jcarls. Is Elder a confirmed town, or could a mafia have that role?
I decided to analyse misders posts because I've been feeling really uncomfortable with his role fishing. I'll analyse some other players that have been brought up as suspicious later.
Misder:
His first post concerns a question asking how Murrayitis works. Nothing scummy/towny in that, both sides would have an interest in knowing. For a while his posts just clarify rules for other players, say things that are obvious, etc. It isn't until his 4th or 5th post that he contributes.
On October 29 2010 10:02 Misder wrote: Since we're all blue (well, the town is), won't it be difficult for the mafia to know who to focus down, esp since they don't even know what roles there are? I'm just questioning since even if you role claim, it doesn't really do anything bad for the town.
I'd actually argue the other way. If we all role claim, we are able to check what other people do during the night action and see if it fits into their role. Also, the mafia won't know what roles there are, so their going to have to make their roles up. The biggest flaw in this is that then, the mafia will know what roles there are and who they are, but if we are able to weed the mafia out fast enough, its an easy town victory.
I think it's fairly obvious that mafia is going to focus experienced players/whoever they suspect has the most powerful role in that case. If mafia won't know who to focus down (who is the most important blue) it would make sense that forcing roleclaims would be an important part of mafia strategy. This is a conclusion that can be drawn from the first part of your post.
Then you ask for a mass role claim. How can we check what everyone does in the night action? You could simply make up a night action that can not be checked and no one can hold you liable. If we are able to weed out the mafia fast enough? Mafia can just claim obvious roles like detective and doctor or wait for other people to roleclaim and say "oh i'm the same role as X". You don't give a strategy to weed out the mafia fast enough (which is an important part of this plan).
More posts about M-Rus come after this.
On October 29 2010 10:12 Misder wrote: Ok, so this is how I think mafia kp is set up- mafia can hit 2 people normally, just like any regular mafia game. then, there is one mafia member who can infect 1 person with murrayitis.
I'm a bit confused on your earlier post on murrayitis. So is it that once infected, the person dies the next night, kind of like the poison from a poisoner?
This is an easy conclusion to make. However I would say that if mafia don't have the power of spreading M-Rus, they would be interesting in goading the town into believing that was the case.
Misder then puts what I call light pressure on Pandain. It is nonconclusive, it makes sense on both sides of the coin. For town, it is in their interest to know more about their candidates. For mafia, it is in their interest to appear to disagree/oppose their teammates while creating the opportunity for their teammate to defend/fix themselves. They will appear to put pressure on a teammate without actually doing so. Not so important now, very important later as scumhunting increases in intensity.
On October 29 2010 10:43 Misder wrote: So I only heard from DH about the mass roleclaiming idea. To me, I feel that its more advantagious to the town than it is disadvantagious, but I want to hear from more of you guys about it.
I put down the idea, Misder is still convinced at this point it's a good idea.
On October 29 2010 11:02 Misder wrote: Now that I think about it, I'm more unsure about the mass roleclaiming thing I suggested. My main concern is that there isn't a concrete way to confirm anyone. And, as Fishball stated, nothing is preventing the mafia from making roles up that have passive abilities, or claim vigi.
This post comes after several people put it down. The rest of the points he make here are pretty valid.
On October 30 2010 13:23 Misder wrote: Ok, after reading through the thread, I'm leaning towards voting for DrH, and will vote for him as of right now.
1. If DrH is mafia, it will be able to tell. He provides so much about his role that its impossible to retract, or even fit under the role while being mafia. If we believe everything that DrH said, he is able to coordinate town. Although he may not be able to PM, if there is a role that allows for the extension of PMing (masons?), he can coordinate even better. It might even be good that DrH can't PM- everything he does will be done in this thread, and he can be closely examined.
(The only concern I have is that DrH is pretty good at manipulation- but I feel that he won't be able to backtrack what he said, and it will be easy to find inconsistencies in his posts)
2. There may as well be a doctor (or even better, a plague doctor) in the circle to protect him, which will basically provide the same thing as bodyguards. If Fishball is mafia, he already has a lot of power. He can manipulate the circle probably really easily, esp since according to him, the majority is inactive, and if they decide to come back, it is easy for them just to listen to Fishball and do whatever he says. We don't know what Fishball can do. He claims his role is of utmost importance, but isn't able to tell us what that role actually is.
3. I feel that Pandain won't be able to provide anything as mayor. He hasn't put out a plan yet; and probably can't do anything proactive with his role. As people stated earlier, Pandain is transparent. Which is good to check on Pandain, but would be a waste of a Mayor. Hes not the best scum hunter I've ever known... I'll leave it like that. The only reason I'd even consider voting for Pandain is if I was a super afraid person of experienced players that are mafia taking the mayor role.
People I'm concerned with: Coagulation- I don't think I've read a good post by him yet. Glasse- comes out of nowhere, and states that he can't be killed? And tries to take the mayor role? Why would anyone with the role of being not able to be killed want even more protection? Ace- Well, I don't really have anything against him. It's just that I've never seen him play, but I've heard hes good and hes a veteran player- so I'm wary.
Circle Claiming- I don't think the circle should claim to the thread yet; I don't really think I have a reason on this, except that I feel that its risky. If this circle is pure town- its the only form of communication town has that is known right now. Giving mafia the members makes it easy to break the circle up. One thing to consider though- It's very likely that mafia is in this circle, so other mafia will know who is in this circle and what they are talking about. This gives an advantage to the mafia. The mafia knows whos in the circle and the town doesn't, that sets the town really behind because the town won't know who is able to PM etc.
Hopefully this is enough to only have 1 post today (in real life time)...
Naturally I agree with his praise of me there. In this post he parrots concerns town had about Fishball and gves light criticism to Pandain.
Discourages circle claiming which seems really odd in the face that he earlier suggested a mass roleclaim and later tries to get others to roleclaim. He says he doesn't have a reason but that its risky? So if mafia is in the circle, all the mafia know who is in the circle, why wouldn't you want town to know as well? That's withholding information from the town that mafia has. Doesn't help us.
On October 30 2010 15:56 Misder wrote: I'm taking my vote off of DrH and putting it on Fishball. After all the WIFOM talk, theres one more thing to consider. If DrH was mafia, he could claim that he poked another mafia player, who has the ability to detect who follows him. So when the plague doctors go to "confirm" DrH, mafia is getting a list of all of the plague doctors. Fishball seems less dangerous compared to what DrH can do if hes mafia. Fishball has to be able to stay consistent in the PMs in the circle and in the thread, and we will be able to check on him in two ways, especially with his activity level.
Moving his vote to Fishball. Reasonable play and he gives valid reasons for it. his problem with me assumes the existence of a role that could or couldn't exist and it seems like a sort of specific concern because (unlike suicide bombers and other potential roles that have brought concern) I don't recall a role like this in any previous mafia game PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.
On October 31 2010 10:29 Misder wrote: Well, if youngminii survived the lynch... I would say that he needs to roleclaim or we get a dt to check him. If its a blue role that avoids lynching- he needs to say so now and I feel a complete roleclaim is necessary from him. And even if he says hes blue- dt should check him. Him being mafia would probably be a bit OP since then the only way that young could die would be by vig hit or another town KP role (unless he can only avoid lynching once...)- either way, young should be scrutinized.
Fishes for a roleclaim. He qualifies it but this is pretty clear fishing IMO.
On October 31 2010 10:33 Misder wrote: Is the bodygaurd's only extra function to prevent any mafia hits on the mayor?
Valid question.
On October 31 2010 23:23 Misder wrote: But youngminii knows why he didn't get lynched, right? Wouldn't it be more benefitial to the town if young told us if this was a one time thing or a permanent thing for avoiding a lynch? If he doesn't tell us, town lacks the information, and because of how young has been posting, we may consider another day to lynch him. But that would be a waste of time if young is immune. I'd say young is most likely mafia if he doesn't answer whether or not this was one time or permanent or multiple.
So young, how often can you dodge a lynch (one time, multiple times, permanently, etc.)?
More fishing.
On November 01 2010 01:19 Misder wrote: I'm pretty sure that DC didn't roleclaim bodygaurd. I think his role has something to do with knowing what each role does; at least that was what I got out of it. Maybe he is bodygaurd, but I'm pretty sure DC is smart enough to spoil it to the mafia.
Everyone seems to agree that his claim was a bodyguard softclaim. LSB and Artanis earlier clarified in the thread that no one knows what roles are in this game or what they do, so your conclusion is what would appear to be an impossibility.
On November 01 2010 07:37 Misder wrote: @Ace I didn't try fishing out his entire role. I am just seeing if he knows if he can dodge lynches, and if so how many. I thought it was beneficial to town, as we would understand more of the game mechanics + reason why the young lynch didn't go through + future reference if we decide to lynch young again. That being said, I'm not afraid of being checked. I would almost encourage it.
@Lexpar's post Hmmm... Everyone is negative about this post, and so am I. But maybe its part of his role; or something happened between the two. Pretty much unlikely, as that would mean that his role is able to PM or that his role is shown to the mayor, but its insane mafia. Clarify please, Lexpar,
Tells Ace he isn't fishing and then fishes on Lexpar lol
On November 01 2010 08:29 Node wrote: I'm mostly worried about the presence of a suicide bomber in the game, but I suppose I can't do much else seeing as I'm not in a PM circle.
DCLXVI is going to die tonight.
Is this for certain? Do you know how hes going to die? Is it possible for a doctor or a medic or whatever role its called in this game to protect him so he doesn't die?
These are questions on everyones mind. I have no problem with this.
On November 01 2010 08:49 Misder wrote: So three people died tonight, Remember that one post of Artanis where he said that mafia has 2+1 KP? That must mean that mafia had access to that extra 1 KP. Whether or not that can be accessed every day, we do not know (it might be that they can only have extra every other day or something like that), but maybe we can find out what role that gains that extra 1 KP. I think its the Giant Potato, but its hard to tell in the night post.
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: During the night, hardly anyone can sleep. It wasn't just all the trick or treaters, everyone was busy doing something.
One poor dude? He arrived at the wrong person’s home (some idiot kidnapped the people) and proceeded to become gagged and tied up. As he staggered around looking for help, another person decided to take his clothes, and replace them with a weird smelling rag. At least other people came and helped him, after prodding him for two hours. That poor guy
Annul decided to stalk his favorite person. However, after he put on his black clothes, black mask, and black gloves. Someone helped him by wrapping a black scarf around his neck. Killing him. Afterwards a completely different person arrived, played on the tire swing for a while, and left.
I'm pretty sure both bolded parts are the describing Annul and his death. So someone switched places with him (kidnapped?). I think we have to be careful of the guy who switched places with him. If we get any references to similar activities between one person and Annul, we can almost gaurantee that that person is mafia.
First paragraph doesn't say much except he thinks the extra KP might have to do with the giant potato. Although why do you think this? Doesn't it seem more likely the extra KP was used on BrownBear considering the special circumtances surrounding his death? especially considering Node's supposed role everything about it seems quite "separate"
On November 01 2010 08:54 Misder wrote: @Node Why were you informed that BB would die so late last cycle, but now you are informed that DXC is going to die so early in this cycle?
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
Again you refer to a mafia role that knows who visited them. Wouldn't that make DXC the mafia since he would be the one being visited?
Obviously there is a correlation between the BB death and DXC death and it's that node was told ahead of time : /
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Brings up the possibility of DXC being mafia which was implied in his last post. However it seems with this post that he is discouraging people from visiting DXC rather than to visit him. If Misder was mafia and DXC was the mafia role (that knows who visited them) that misder has already referenced a few times, this doesn't seem like a logical play to me. This post doesn't come off scummy to me at all.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
The risk that it may be a set up by the mafia (less likely now, discussed later in the post). And that it would be a waste (remember, his role says that DXC is going to die, which implies that there is no way to save him). Note that I wrote my post before I read Node's latest posts. So Node seems to be hinting that there is a list that the mods have that kills people one by one. Quickstriker was first, then BB, then DXC. This seems like a random list, as Quickstricker was inactive and not a target that mafia would want to kill, and BB was pretty inactive too and also not a target that mafia would want to kill. DXC is someone that mafia would want to kill as he softclaimed bodygaurd, but if we follow the pattern, it isn't the mafia that chooses this list. This also implies that Node is town, and isn't setting this up.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
Everything points to DC being town, except: 1) he softclaimed bodyguard (by correcting Artanis on the definition, no less), when there was no good reason to do so. He then pretty much said it was intentional by saying "Artanis just confirmed my role." There's no good reason to do this as a townie. 2) He softclaimed bodyguard, and a (the only?) bodyguard just died.
His softclaim of bodyguard has yet to be confirmed by him. If he has a reason to do it as a townie I'd like him to tell us. He certainly has explaining to do, as well as Aeres, considering Annul was a bodyguard.
On November 01 2010 09:17 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:08 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:01 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 08:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
The risk that it may be a set up by the mafia (less likely now, discussed later in the post). And that it would be a waste (remember, his role says that DXC is going to die, which implies that there is no way to save him). Note that I wrote my post before I read Node's latest posts. So Node seems to be hinting that there is a list that the mods have that kills people one by one. Quickstriker was first, then BB, then DXC. This seems like a random list, as Quickstricker was inactive and not a target that mafia would want to kill, and BB was pretty inactive too and also not a target that mafia would want to kill. DXC is someone that mafia would want to kill as he softclaimed bodygaurd, but if we follow the pattern, it isn't the mafia that chooses this list. This also implies that Node is town, and isn't setting this up.
I feel that he is likely town. Considering the potential danger of his role if he is mafia it's best to keep an eye on his posts closely, but I don't have any strong suspicions about him and I think his response to my initial proposition of the possibility that he could be mafia was fairly strong.
It could be an RNG'd list but I feel like it might be some sort of conditional kill. BrownBear's death said "he died for being good" that seems important to me and makes it seem unlikely that he was killed purely randomly.
About the list- how can it be conditional? If everything Node says is true... then BB was "next in line". Unless its based on # of posts or when they post, then the mods wouldn't have been able to choose the next target on the list cause they can't predict the future actions.
Assuming its a list. I already responded to this post specifically and I don't want to be redundant here.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
This is not unlikely. Mafia knew that DH was going to try to confirm himself tonight by night action. So if there is a roleblocker in the game, mafia would probably make the easy decision to block him. On the other hand, DH is still not confirmed...
Pretty obvious stuff, doesn't bring anything new to the table. Doesn't come off as either scum or town to me.
On November 01 2010 09:27 Lexpar wrote: I think that because I'm alive. I am therefore I think?
We can trust DocH. We should work with him.
Any reason for this? DH, do you know the role of Lexpar?
Possible attempt to see if I can reveal Lexpars role which he fished for earlier.
Conclusion: Aside from the role fishing and occasional inconsistency nothing jumps off the play as particularly scummy. He makes some good points and arguments and is posting pretty reasonably and hasn't attacked anybody in particular or made a strong attempt to make anybody look bad. The only other thing that made me feel uncomfortable was the fact that he brought up this specific mafia role that may or may not exist several times and centered a few of his arguments around it.
I don't feel that Misder is definitely mafia but the dude needs to stop trying to get people to roleclaim. Due to the fishing, Misder definitely needs to be watched. I don't want to put the FoS on you but maybe the Eye of Suspicion or in laymans terms "I'm watching you, bro."
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
how fucking convenient.
even more convenient that your post basically says nothing at all!
On November 01 2010 10:06 Ace wrote: Now before this action happens ask yourself how strongly you believed in Dr.H being pro-town. If you believed so then there's a damn good chance he indeed was roleblocked. No need to keep wondering about what if's or who's playing a trick on you. A confirmed townie is dangerous and if Dr.H is telling the truth then Scum would indeed want to roleblock him.
Note that the mafia didn't aim for either of the two people who roleclaimed bodyguard (DC, Aeres). How badly do the scum want to get rid of DrH?
It makes sense that they wouldn't hit Aeres considering he claimed he could also protect himself.
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
I was very aware of the possibility of a roleblock and didn't bring it up because I wanted to soak them up if the mafia decided I would be the prime candidate for a roleblock. I didn't want to bring that up initially because I didn't want to give the mafia that information but now that you're grilling me on it I suppose I should.
I admitted this earlier actually, read the last few pages.
The following is still true: -if my poke goes through, it confirms my identity to the player that receives it the player that receives a poke can lie and say "they did not receive a poke" -it is a night action, this was clear as soon as I claimed my role, and it is obvious that it is subject to things like commuter, bus driver, roleblocker, w/e -I anticipated the fact that I would be a prime candidate for a roleblocker, soaking up roleblocks on my poke, freeing up other roles that are potentially much more powerful to act -once the conversation began about my possible insanity and the possibility of any roles insanity (confirmed even further by orgoloves death) i think the idea of 100% confirmation pretty much fell through the cracks and it isn't something I held onto. It's possible that the whole poke is a lie, that it never goes through, and that the role is designed to make me think I can confirm myself to others when nothing actually happens -I acknowledged throughout my campaign multiple scenarios in which my role could be compromised by different scenarios involving various amounts of insanity
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
that's not really 100% at all if you're roleblocked, it's more like 0%
On October 29 2010 08:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mafia has 2+1KP. Bodyguards are common in mayor games in which as long as they are alive, they will protect the mayor.
2+1 kp? that means they have 3 or 2 and 1 special? @_@
Fair question. Mafia would know the answer to this and would have no reason to ask unless they wanted to look town by asking (it's kind of an obvious answer so I wouldn't discount that possibility)
On October 29 2010 09:37 NB wrote: my opinion on who should get to be major: if Mr.A is major, after that night he still survive => he must be mafia => got lynched on the next day in another word voting for major is like voting for someone who should die in the next day. Noticed that if the major is just town, Mafia could easily kill him on day 1 no problem :3....
Also i wana confirm: after 1 major die, could we vote for a new one or we just move on without 1?... i love the idea of voting for a new one.
None of what you said in this post makes sense. This is a post designed to goad town into killing the mayor. However it seems this entire post is based on several gross misunderstandings of the rules of the game.
On October 29 2010 09:50 NB wrote: im confused... so bodyguard(s) is a role? T_T
(a mafia should read this post and assume that im not a bodyguard and they wont kill me :3)
The second part of this post is dumb. But he is operating on the assumption that bodyguards are predetermined so it kinda makes sense.
On October 29 2010 09:52 NB wrote: also: can a bodyguard be a mayor? and what if it happen?
@GM: also please clarify what you mean earlier about mafia has 2+1 KP? whats the meaning of +1
On October 29 2010 09:52 NB wrote: also: can a bodyguard be a mayor? and what if it happen?
@GM: also please clarify what you mean earlier about mafia has 2+1 KP? whats the meaning of +1
in a game with bodyguards, bodyguards are selected after the election, not before
so mayor cannot be a bg
please explain more on this, im REALLY confused... i wana be mayor but i cant be a role without understanding it first >.<
if you dont understand the role you should not be it and i suggest no one ever vote for you
that being said it usually works like this. mayor is elected and then x amount of townies are chosen at random and given the additional role of bodyguard. the mayor cannot be hit at night/rolechecked until all his bodyguards are dead. the bodyguards typically do not know who other bodyguards are.
mafia can sometimes choose to have someone come in and become a bodyguard, which is very useful because if the other bodyguards are dead and the mafia bodyguard is not they can hit the mayor. or if the mayor is mafia he can have allied bodyguards.
i assume all the selection method are done by GM right?... is there a wiki thread about the mayor role that i can read ?
still questions
On October 30 2010 07:17 NB wrote: people are moving too fast, im having a hard time to catch up your conversation T_T
Worthless complaint. Nobody cares.
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
First really scummy post.
You don't trust any group of towny? Why? mafia would have good reason to fear a well run circle.
"has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia" not even a point at all. So ignoring that you call me a veteran mafia and shitty towny. How am I a shitty towny, if, according to you I have never been towny?
"Those people who did bandwagon him could be mafia." no shit that is a statement that would apply to any candidate in the lead. And because of all of these moot points I'm his last choice. Ok.
On October 30 2010 09:18 NB wrote: @DR.h: dont get me wrong, im still reading the thread to catch up but that post was my current summary of my thought on the current situation @_@... i have yet decided to vote on anybody so if you can convince me that you are more worthy than the other, i will vote for you :D...
again, no offends and please feel free to correct me ...
Doesn't defend a single one of his points here (when I pointed out the issues in his posts saying essentially the same thing I'm saying now. Basically this entire post is meaningless it offers no new information.
It was your summary of your thought? really? Versus a summary of someone elses thoughts I guess.
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
Your logic for electing Pandain is pretty flimsy. We want a mayor who: 1) Is a good analyzer and an experienced town player 2) Can be scrutinized or somehow confirmed as a townie. 3) Has a role that requires protection Now, ideally we get a mayor who is strongly all three (and ends up being townie under scrutiny). DrH, according to his posts, satisfies 2 and 3, especially 2, and I feel like he can carry out 1 as well. Fishball claims to satisfy 3, but his circle hasn't materialized, which makes me suspect him. Last in my book is Pandain, who claims SOFTLY to satisfy all 3. Emphasis on softly, because he only said he had a "valuable blue role" and could give "indirect confirmation." No real plan for action, unlike the other two candidates, as far as I saw. On top of that, you claim that DrH's bandwagon is suspect, but Pandain had an even larger bandwagon before DrH... why does that not trigger your red flag? It feels almost like you're fabricating reasons to put Pandain first and everyone else last. Odd, to say the least. I want to hear a bit more explanation on these points, NB.
i did not make that post while im thinking about the situation. i thought about it first and fishy + Dr.H are the 2 people that i cant trust. For pandain: he is the "left over" so i cant touch him since there is nothing clear against him. I should have analyze mr.fish and Dr.H b4 mentioning panda but what ever.... As you see im still voting for myself but anyone above so dont take that post as im accusing anybody
You don't really make any points here. Your first sentence is nonsense I don't even know what it means. You claim me and fishball can't be trusted and provide no reasoning. You then give soft support for Pandain with out really providing good reasoning other than "he isn't dr.h or fishball"
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
Your logic for electing Pandain is pretty flimsy. We want a mayor who: 1) Is a good analyzer and an experienced town player 2) Can be scrutinized or somehow confirmed as a townie. 3) Has a role that requires protection Now, ideally we get a mayor who is strongly all three (and ends up being townie under scrutiny). DrH, according to his posts, satisfies 2 and 3, especially 2, and I feel like he can carry out 1 as well. Fishball claims to satisfy 3, but his circle hasn't materialized, which makes me suspect him. Last in my book is Pandain, who claims SOFTLY to satisfy all 3. Emphasis on softly, because he only said he had a "valuable blue role" and could give "indirect confirmation." No real plan for action, unlike the other two candidates, as far as I saw. On top of that, you claim that DrH's bandwagon is suspect, but Pandain had an even larger bandwagon before DrH... why does that not trigger your red flag? It feels almost like you're fabricating reasons to put Pandain first and everyone else last. Odd, to say the least. I want to hear a bit more explanation on these points, NB.
i did not make that post while im thinking about the situation. i thought about it first and fishy + Dr.H are the 2 people that i cant trust. For pandain: he is the "left over" so i cant touch him since there is nothing clear against him. I should have analyze mr.fish and Dr.H b4 mentioning panda but what ever.... As you see im still voting for myself but anyone above so dont take that post as im accusing anybody
also about the pandain bandwagon: i have no clue what happen back then, i was having sc2 practice at that time so i didnt follow the thread AT ALL. im still reading backward atm T_T... My assumption is even though there was a bandwagon for pandain. The early bandwagon should not be weighted much as the later ones since people obviously have no clue whats going on and randomly vote. I will keep my eyes on the voting process from now till night1...
i think keep track on the voting thread is much more usefull than this thread since there is no mind fuck going on around there
Excuse for doing/knowing nothing. The part about early bandwagon being less useful is very true.
On October 30 2010 10:33 NB wrote: question: arent we supposed to lynch someone at day1 or we can skip?.... we discuss a lot about election but no lynching which make me worried since this could be a trick of mafia to reduced our discussion time on lynching people
rule question
On October 30 2010 10:54 NB wrote: while obama Dr.h and Mc.cain panda are debating.... fishy hillary is standing out and watch :>
worthless
On October 30 2010 12:13 NB wrote: so we have 3 main candidates: Panda, dish, doctor... Who of you will promise to protect me from scums? :3
Why would we protect you? Are you softclaiming an important role to draw medics? How can the mayor protect somebody? This post is nonsense.
On October 30 2010 12:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if glasse is invincible he shouldn't be mayor, it's a waste of the bodyguard mechanic
What if i take all the hits for my bodyguards? That makes many ppl invincible as well!
On October 30 2010 12:31 annul wrote: god may not be able to kill you but the mods can!
We'll see about that!
Vote Glasse! Insane mayor 2010!
My understanding of the bodyguard is that if the mayor is hit, the bodyguard doesn't die, but that the bodyguard must be killed before the mayor can
What if i am invincible due to bodyguards? DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? I could also be an invincible body guard, who protect his own bodyguards.
Think about it, its so insane it could be true!
Glasse for mayor!
i think you miss understood the bodyguard mechanic... mayor cant be a bodyguard
Clarification.
On October 30 2010 13:42 NB wrote: This game is freaking anoying to play compare to haunted mafia which has double the number of players... Reason? So many people wana become mayor for their own goods while the other people try to fuck the game over....
everyone need to drink a chill pill and review the picture from the beginning... where ever we are heading at, i see we are being split into multiple small groups and fight each other... They only has 9 mafia so calm down!!!
>so many people wana become mayor for their own goods while the other people try to fuck the game over
What do you mean for their own goods? You were interested in running yourself you said earlier. Who are "other people"?
As far as asking everybody to calm down. This isn't necessarily a town or a scum tell, both factions could have reasons to do so.
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
you put in that list those people who you had personal conflict with and has nothing to do with the whole town. Typical Mafia action type. Since you most likely gona be mayor, it would said no more but the way you play the role is mostly "for your own goods" and i have to admitt that i dont like it.
Its either gona be just like last game where you are mafia and accuse me for having mafia action or you are planing to kill 5 people base on the fact that you DONT LIKE them. oh well
On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote: Wow looks like things finally calmed down.
So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?
I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation
that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum.
you put in that list those people who you had personal conflict with and has nothing to do with the whole town. Typical Mafia action type. Since you most likely gona be mayor, it would said no more but the way you play the role is mostly "for your own goods" and i have to admitt that i dont like it.
Its either gona be just like last game where you are mafia and accuse me for having mafia action or you are planing to kill 5 people base on the fact that you DONT LIKE them. oh well
I never had a conflict with youngminii, we voted for the same candidate !!!
Who do you suspect of being scum outside of that. I'm willing to listen to your list of suspects but right now it just looks like you're defending them and yourself by attacking me ;o
my suspect list: people who voted for fishball: youngminii orgolove Fishball
people who bandwagon to you: Veldril CubEdIn Amber[LighT]
voting for pandain: Nemesis Coagulation
and lastly: Dr.H and pandain.
The fact that you, fishball and pandain are mafia or at least 1 of you HAS TO BE mafia is too obvious. there is no way mafia would let all the mayor candidates are town, at least 1 of them has to be mafia. At i said earlier when i first understand about mayor role: mayor candidates are most likely be killed. The fact that the amount of influence you 3 have on people are just huge and mafia either gona try to take control of that power or send spy into your groups.
This is clearly why i dont want to vote for any of you since im quite lack of communication atm. My only way to get a clear information about what is going on in this game is base on the voting thread since there are too much mind fuck in this thread. There are clearly groups of players who are communicating with each others and since im not belonging to any of those groups, i would like to stay out, take my time and consider stuff instead of posting stupidly and back stab myself later. The above list is not final! i do have more supspect but the main problem is i have no clue who i should NOT suspect.!
what is your suspect list? Is it people who voted for fishball, who bandwagoned to me, or who voted for pandain? That doesn't really say anything ;o
>There is no way mafia would let all the mayor candidates are town, at least 1 of them has to be mafia
I brought up this possibility before. Mayor is underpowered in this game compared to previous games and there are a few reasons mafia might not have a mayoral run. When I first brought this up somebody else immediately attacked me for it, I don't remember who but I think it was infinitestory. I'll confirm this.
You don't want to do any analysis based on the thread, just votes. This is an excuse for not posting much or a "well i dont have to explain what im doing because this whole thread is a mindfuck".
It isn't even clear who you suspected in this post.
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
i asked the GM... he said mayor get to lynch 1 person day1, from day2 on its voting
On October 31 2010 08:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Someone wasn't happy. He picked his nose and threw a booger at the anonimous mafia voter. In shame, the mafia quickly ran out, his vote negated.
check this out.... it seems like 1 mafia has been spotted :D
Good to bring this to our attention.
On October 31 2010 09:27 NB wrote: Masq, please explain your action....
and how you guys could be so active at this game while day9 is casting? :<
useless post
On October 31 2010 10:13 NB wrote: modkill mafia, FUCK YEAH xD
useless
On October 31 2010 10:18 NB wrote: what if they have 2 people with a same role...... which means Dr.H could be mafia?....
fair proposition
On October 31 2010 10:23 NB wrote: ok, lets discuss our night action, who will most likely being killed by mafia?
"tell us what you're gonna do medics"
On October 31 2010 14:52 NB wrote: im confused.... so what is dr.H role again? i missed that post some where?
Yeah you missed a huge amount of pages of discussion about it.
On November 01 2010 05:20 NB wrote: guys, i might be afk for the next 24 hours due to homeworks... just throwing it out there for those of you who like to know
identical excuse for inactivity that immediately follows the excuse of another player before him
On November 01 2010 08:11 NB wrote: wow, mafia is hitting on Veteran players @_@
On November 01 2010 08:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It's possible I was roleblocked in that case.
On November 01 2010 08:37 Lexpar wrote: Same.
On November 01 2010 08:39 Glasse wrote: It's possible i was roleblocked too then :3
wtf.
If I poke and I don't get a PM response from the mod then it is supposed to mean my poke was successful and they don't have murrayitis. If I am roleblocked then I might not be made aware which would trick me into thinking I confirmed to a player when nothing actually happened.
or you could be the god father pretending to be a nurse....
You never clarified what you meant by this. What does being a nurse have to do with it? What?'
NB's posts fall into that awful grey area that I hate between really bad townie or mafia. I have a hard time telling.
Considering his constant questions to the mod, complete and gross misunderstanding of what is going on in the thread, I'm perhaps leaning toward "bad townie". Mafia would be more controlling of what he posts but then again they could have an advantage from him playing the way he is so this is a bit of a WIFOM. His posting is pretty consistent with his micro mafia game in which he played very poorly and always seemed confused but was indeed town aligned.
His posting behavior is characterized by: poor understanding of the rules arguments/points that he won't support and then later makes excuses for not supporting spam erratic posting/nonsensical arguments
NB is a player that must be closely monitored. It is very easy to see how these posts could be scummy but he could very well just be a bad towny (and his past experience supports this possibility)
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
that's not really 100% at all if you're roleblocked, it's more like 0%
re read the sentence
I read it fine the first time. You say this is still the case, and it is. But that is NOT what you claimed.
On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
I'm now worried that you duped us in order to get into the mayor position.
No. If my night action succeeds, it 100% confirms itself to the player that is poked. If I am roleblock my night action doesn't succeed. I'm talking about if it succeeds it's a for sure confirmation, roleblocking is irrelevant to what I'm saying infinitestory.
I'm a man of my word. If the town thinks I made up my role and that I am scum then obviously I'm the best choice for a lynch.
On November 01 2010 11:01 Pandain wrote: In addition, now your casting serious doubt as to whether node is really what he says he is. But, why would he lie?
Assuming we act upon it, we send a medic to go protect him. If, as you say, they then have a secret suicide bomber(btw its not that great to say "well what if they have this role! Therefore, in this unlikely scenario this could occur, therefore he is a fake." At most we lose 1 medic, but then we catch a mafia, and have so much information from there.
I merely said it's an easy role to fake and could set up a lot of potential mafia plays. His claims shouldn't merely be accepted at face value. I never even put an FoS on him or anything.
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
that's not really 100% at all if you're roleblocked, it's more like 0%
re read the sentence
I read it fine the first time. You say this is still the case, and it is. But that is NOT what you claimed.
On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
I'm now worried that you duped us in order to get into the mayor position.
No. If my night action succeeds, it 100% confirms itself to the player that is poked. If I am roleblock my night action doesn't succeed. I'm talking about if it succeeds it's a for sure confirmation, roleblocking is irrelevant to what I'm saying infinitestory.
I'm a man of my word. If the town thinks I made up my role and that I am scum then obviously I'm the best choice for a lynch.
Alright I believed you. I believed you for a while because you said "Don't worry, as soon as I'm elected I can confirm myself ASAP." But now I'm highly in doubt as to whether you are really town. For starters, your not a man of your word, kindly pointed out by coag. What you're doing is actually quite smart from a mafia perspective.
Coag didn't catch me lying. I was somehow prevented from taking my confirmation action, it's as simple as that.
am offering myself for lynch if the information I'm giving is found to be unreliable. So as mafia here, I'm sacrificing myself. my scumbuddies, and making claims that I cannot fulfill.
An utterly retarded thing to do. Not to mention the fact that being mayor barely benefits mafia in this case. The only real benefit is immunity to vig hits and the second vote.
You make bold claims like this to get elected, and then can easily back out when you claim to be roleblocked. Since we don't know what roles there are, it's a perfect scam. We have no way of knowing if your telling the truth.
This isn't an easy back out at all. I'm not claiming I was roleblocked. Jcarls could be lying, he could have been bussed, or I could have an insane role that cannot poke at all. If I were to be faking roleblocks the entire time that would require me to have made up my role, a scenario which my posting history shows to be highly unlikely.
On November 01 2010 10:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: The following is still true: -if my poke goes through, it confirms my identity to the player that receives it the player that receives a poke can lie and say "they did not receive a poke" -it is a night action, this was clear as soon as I claimed my role, and it is obvious that it is subject to things like commuter, bus driver, roleblocker, w/e -I anticipated the fact that I would be a prime candidate for a roleblocker, soaking up roleblocks on my poke, freeing up other roles that are potentially much more powerful to act -once the conversation began about my possible insanity and the possibility of any roles insanity (confirmed even further by orgoloves death) i think the idea of 100% confirmation pretty much fell through the cracks and it isn't something I held onto. It's possible that the whole poke is a lie, that it never goes through, and that the role is designed to make me think I can confirm myself to others when nothing actually happens -I acknowledged throughout my campaign multiple scenarios in which my role could be compromised by different scenarios involving various amounts of insanity
So now you're saying the poke may not even exist. Basically, what your saying is "the mods are lying about my role". That's just like saying "OOPS! This is what my role REALLY does." very scummy in my eyes.
I'm not saying they are lying about my role or anything like that. I'm accepting the possibility that my role could be an insane. A possibility originally brought up by OTHER players and a possibility which no player in this game should ignore in regards to anyones role or their own role.
Finally, if you anticipated the fact you could be roleblocked, why did you constantly claim you could confirm yourself to be 100%.
As I said earlier, I anticipated the fact that I could be roleblocked and didn't bring it up because soaking up all the roleblocks would be advantageous to the town.
On November 01 2010 11:01 Pandain wrote: In addition, now your casting serious doubt as to whether node is really what he says he is. But, why would he lie?
Assuming we act upon it, we send a medic to go protect him. If, as you say, they then have a secret suicide bomber(btw its not that great to say "well what if they have this role! Therefore, in this unlikely scenario this could occur, therefore he is a fake." At most we lose 1 medic, but then we catch a mafia, and have so much information from there.
I merely said it's an easy role to fake and could set up a lot of potential mafia plays. His claims shouldn't merely be accepted at face value. I never even put an FoS on him or anything.
But then: 1.Why would he say whos gonig to get hit before the night ends, therefore leaving open the possibility of a failed hit 2.The fact at worst we'll lose a medic but catch a mafia and suicide bomber.
1. To set up a suicide bomb or to anticipate medic action. I'm not sure if mafia have a poisoner but if they have a role that does a delayed hit or has a fail condition they could fake the latter scenario.
2. No. What if all of our medics visited that person and a few other blues? It could be much worse.
You seem awfully intent on defending a player I never accused and even said I feel is likely a town player.
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
that's not really 100% at all if you're roleblocked, it's more like 0%
re read the sentence
I read it fine the first time. You say this is still the case, and it is. But that is NOT what you claimed.
On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
I'm now worried that you duped us in order to get into the mayor position.
I think the deception is more likely to come from your end. What is to stop you from saying "oh no I didn't get the poke" when you actually did?
Yes, it does seem that Dr.H deceived us, but honestly, do you think all of the Mayoral candidates were going to tell the whole truth? I'm not sure we should want to kill him until he legitimately has a chance to prove himself. He is offering a lot of good analyses.
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
that's not really 100% at all if you're roleblocked, it's more like 0%
re read the sentence
I read it fine the first time. You say this is still the case, and it is. But that is NOT what you claimed.
On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
I'm now worried that you duped us in order to get into the mayor position.
Yes, it does seem that Dr.H deceived us, but honestly, do you think all of the Mayoral candidates were going to tell the whole truth? I'm not sure we should want to kill him until he legitimately has a chance to prove himself. He is offering a lot of good analyses.
I think the deception is more likely to come from your end. What is to stop you from saying "oh no I didn't get the poke" when you actually did?
Coag didn't catch me lying. I was somehow prevented from taking my confirmation action, it's as simple as that.
But how do we know that? The fact is you claimed to have a 100% way of confirming yourself as town, and now that is cast aside. That is why you were elected mayor.
This isn't an easy back out at all. I'm not claiming I was roleblocked. Jcarls could be lying, he could have been bussed, or I could have an insane role that cannot poke at all. If I were to be faking roleblocks the entire time that would require me to have made up my role, a scenario which my posting history shows to be highly unlikely.
Oh yes, because definitely Jcarls would be lying about this. Or the fact that mafia just somehow knew jcarl would be picked, and again don't defend yourself by claiming you don't know the role. As for faking the role, I highly believe you are a godfather. Obviously, if it exists, it would be used on the mayor canidate.
I'm not saying they are lying about my role or anything like that. I'm accepting the possibility that my role could be an insane. A possibility originally brought up by OTHER players and a possibility which no player in this game should ignore in regards to anyones role or their own role.
So they just gave you a townie role? that is the basis of your role, they wouldn't lie about that. Again, what's happening here is now your claming your role is different, which while somewhat plausible in this set up, definitely suscipcious and too easy an excuse.
As I said earlier, I anticipated the fact that I could be roleblocked and didn't bring it up because soaking up all the roleblocks would be advantageous to the town.
Having an unconfirmed mayor is advantageous to the town? Especially when that mayor promised he would be 100% confirmed, and that is why he became mayor?
It's not cast aside. I have a 100% way of confirming myself. If the poke goes through, it confirms me to the player I poked. If it's blocked, then it's blocked. That doesn't mean the poke doesn't exist or doesn't work at all unless my role is insane.
Why the soft defense of Jcarls? He could very well be lying. I'm not accusing him of it and I think it's more likely I was roleblocked but it sounds like you don't even want to consider the possibility.
You believe I'm godfather? Did I then make up the role of sticky? Do you think my role exists or that I'm faking everything Pandain?
I'm not claiming my role is different. I'm claiming I could be. It's idiotic to call this an excuse, this applies to all of us. Your role could be something other than you think it is, some of the mechanics could be fake, there could be deception in it. Orgoloves role description on his death PROVED this was a possibility beyond a shadow of a doubt. Stop trying to make it look like I'm changing my role, I'm accounting for the fact that it could be insane.
No having an unconfirmed mayor isn't advantageous. Having a mayor soak up all the roleblocks for the town is advantageous. That's the point I'm making. Don't make it a different point.
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
that's not really 100% at all if you're roleblocked, it's more like 0%
re read the sentence
I read it fine the first time. You say this is still the case, and it is. But that is NOT what you claimed.
On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
I'm now worried that you duped us in order to get into the mayor position.
Yes, it does seem that Dr.H deceived us, but honestly, do you think all of the Mayoral candidates were going to tell the whole truth? I'm not sure we should want to kill him until he legitimately has a chance to prove himself. He is offering a lot of good analyses.
I think the deception is more likely to come from your end. What is to stop you from saying "oh no I didn't get the poke" when you actually did?
I'm sorry, but are you using a chainsaw defense on the player you poked because you thought him most likely to be town? That doesn't add up.
I'm not accusing him, I'm saying he could be lying. Why are you defending him? You don't think this is a possiblity?
You all seem very comfortable with the idea of me being a liar when jcarls lie is much simpler and easier to make. But as soon as I bring up that possiblity I get slammed for it? Seriously?
On November 01 2010 10:25 Coagulation wrote: DOCH is not a shitty player there is no fucking way he got blindsided by something as simple as a ROLEBLOCK.
I have a 100% way to confirm myself to another player through my night action if it goes through, this is still the case.
that's not really 100% at all if you're roleblocked, it's more like 0%
re read the sentence
I read it fine the first time. You say this is still the case, and it is. But that is NOT what you claimed.
On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
I'm now worried that you duped us in order to get into the mayor position.
Yes, it does seem that Dr.H deceived us, but honestly, do you think all of the Mayoral candidates were going to tell the whole truth? I'm not sure we should want to kill him until he legitimately has a chance to prove himself. He is offering a lot of good analyses.
I think the deception is more likely to come from your end. What is to stop you from saying "oh no I didn't get the poke" when you actually did?
EBWODP
There is obviously nothing stopping me from lying, but is there any evidence to show that I would lie?
I supported your campaign, and I have been pro-town the whole time. Why would I then want to through you under the bus?
I knew when I saw that it would come down to my confirmation that people would find it a possibility that I would be lying, but I'm not. I don't know if there is any evidence that would suggest I lied.
There is no evidence to suggest you lied. I agree your posts are pro-town. I think it is far more likely there is a silent RB, that you were bussed, that you were commuted, or that some other power that be stopped my night action.
On November 01 2010 10:28 youngminii wrote: Okay I don't care what's going on right now since it doesn't seem to be anything of great substance.
Why is no one pointing their finger at Aeres? Did you not read the night post? A bodyguard died (Annul). Now according to LSB/Artanis, there's only one bodyguard. Maybe he's lying but if he is, we're still operating under the assumption that DCL softclaimed bodyguard.
So that makes 3 in total. Aeres's claim never made sense to me anyway, and the scumtells that he dropped (oh hey I'm assuming there's two bodyguards because of DCL's softclaim.. But what if DCL isn't a bodyguard? Who's the other one?). It almost looked as if Aeres was trying to gain our trust, make us lose trust in DCL and weed out any other bodyguards that may have tried to claim.
3 people claimed bodyguard. However DC says he never claimed at all. Regardless that prompted a roleclaim from Aeres to reveal his ability. Night 1 the actual bodyguard dies.
If we take DC at his word in that he never claimed then Aeres lied. Conveniently DC comes back to point this out after Night is over. But - I still don't think Aeres can sail away on a magical boat and be a bodyguard. If he leaves town then how would the Mayor be protected?
So I'm voting for Aeres because I don't think his story adds up. No way he can be a bodyguard when the only 1 also just died. Likewise, even if DC did fake claim Aeres should have pushed harder for his lynch KNOWING that DC lied. If he didn't believe DC's fake claim was an actual claim then he would have had no reason to out himself if he was an actual bodyguard.
From 3 angles he stinks. His story and his actions are bullshit.
Because Aeres thought that DC's claim was truthful and that the claim that there was only one bodyguard was a lie. This is a definite possibility, there could even be a role like an insane bodyguard that believes themselves to be the bodyguard but is not actually the bodyguard.
But this conclusion is based on speculation and distrust of the mod. What aeres did is pretty suspicious and he needs to defend himself soon. Although I believe he earlier said he was going to be inactive so we may have to wait a while for his defense.
On November 01 2010 11:30 Pandain wrote: It's not cast aside. I have a 100% way of confirming myself. If the poke goes through, it confirms me to the player I poked. If it's blocked, then it's blocked. That doesn't mean the poke doesn't exist or doesn't work at all unless my role is insane. Ya, but then a roleblocker just happens to block you, and if you said(and keep saying) you have a 100% way of confirming yourself, why would you stick to that if you knew you were a *in your own words* "a prime canidate for a roleblocker", why would you campaign on that basis. It's just dilebrately misleading town. Basically, you ran through the campaign there was a chance you could never be confirmed. THAT IS WHY YOU GOT ELECTED! So why would you run if you knew you couldn't be confirmed!
Why the soft defense of Jcarls? He could very well be lying. I'm not accusing him of it and I think it's more likely I was roleblocked but it sounds like you don't even want to consider the possibility. Alright, so now you take back what you said. I'm saying its highly unlikely, far fetched, and yes you did accuse him.
On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think the deception is more likely to come from your end. What is to stop you from saying "oh no I didn't get the poke" when you actually did?
You believe I'm godfather? Did I then make up the role of sticky? Do you think my role exists or that I'm faking everything Pandain? For all I know you could be mafia and have the role. You might not have the role at all. I know you to be a very smart, cunning, and manipulative mafia, this is not beyond your reach. All I know is that your actions have been anti town I'm not claiming my role is different. I'm claiming I could be. It's idiotic to call this an excuse, this applies to all of us. Your role could be something other than you think it is, some of the mechanics could be fake, there could be deception in it. Orgoloves role description on his death PROVED this was a possibility beyond a shadow of a doubt. Stop trying to make it look like I'm changing my role, I'm accounting for the fact that it could be insane.
See, this is the problem. Your defense is "what if...", "well maybe" and "it could". There has been no solid explanation of your actions thus far. No having an unconfirmed mayor isn't advantageous. Having a mayor soak up all the roleblocks for the town is advantageous. That's the point I'm making. Don't make it a different point. Alright, you soak up a possible roleblocker, which we can't even confirm exists because your unconfirmed.
That's assuming it was even a roleblock. In this game there are a lot of speculative scenarios we can get into in which things might not work. I did later let the idea of "100% confirmation" fall through as it became increasingly apparent I may not even be able to trust Artanis. If it is a roleblock then the mafia have to make the choice to either keep roleblocking me so they can keep making me look suspicious or to use it on someone else now that I've informed them that I anticipated this play.
Why would I take back what I said? All I said is that jcarls could have lied and that it is much easier for him to lie. I've brought a lot of attention on myself and said a lot about my role, these are things jcarls hasn't done. Your defense of him is getting more irrational. I will not take back my claim because all I claimed is that he could have lied and that is would be a very easy play for him to make. That would make it more likely a lie on his end than a lie on my end but I believe it is likely a lie on NEITHER of our ends and is merely a roleblock. That is a point i emphasized many times yet you're still saying I accused him of being mafia. I asked him a question, brought up the possibility that he lied, but I didn't accuse him of being a liar or a mafia. You're putting words in my mouth and it is very very obvious Pandain. A tribute to your so-called "transparency".
"For all I know you could or couldn't be". Ok that's a tautology isn't it? You're over rating me as a mafia player and then saying my actions are anti town. But lets not say how they're anti-town right? Is it anti-town to soak up roleblocks to help other roles? Is it anti-town because as far as I know I have the best chance of confirming my role to another player with my night action?
Your attack is what if well maybe and it could. I explained all of my actions. I explained why I didn't talk about the possiblity of roleclaiming. I explained why I later ditched the "100%" thing. I've explained why I've done and said everything I've said. To say that I'm mafia becaue I'm not 100% town isn't a good argument.
It would be best to go through all their posts. Search for all of their posts in the mafia forum and open them all. Skip the ones that seem irrelevant (questions to a mod, spam, etc.) and go for whatever you feel you can analyse but prepared for a shitstorm if people feel you're intentionally leaving out information.
On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct?
In essence, yes.
That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did.
Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia.
However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard.
By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you.
On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct?
In essence, yes.
That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did.
Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia.
However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard.
By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you.
Oh that is something I wanted to ask you. Did you know the identity of Annul (your bodyguard) before he was killed?
That's assuming it was even a roleblock. In this game there are a lot of speculative scenarios we can get into in which things might not work. I did later let the idea of "100% confirmation" fall through as it became increasingly apparent I may not even be able to trust Artanis. If it is a roleblock then the mafia have to make the choice to either keep roleblocking me so they can keep making me look suspicious or to use it on someone else now that I've informed them that I anticipated this play. By the time we had the first suscipcions the mods could be lying you had already secured the election. There were two hours left. Furthormore, I don't understand how this "insanity" would prevent you from doing a poke. How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect. But yet even in two hours you make this post:
On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Pandain is my second choice for now but I'm not sure since he claims to have an uber important role. But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
I have a weird feeling about Nemesis. his vote is for pandain but iirc he supported me mostly in this thread. correct me if I'm wrong maybe I'm thinking about someone else.
Also if the boogerthrower knows the identity of the mafia voter somehow, come out and claim. You'll be medic protected 100%.
Here you admit your role is most important in the ability to confirm yourself. This is after it was revealed there was a chance the mods are deceiving us. And yet you have admitted you are a prime contender for a roleblocker, but keep on going. Things do not add up Why would I take back what I said? All I said is that jcarls could have lied and that it is much easier for him to lie. I've brought a lot of attention on myself and said a lot about my role, these are things jcarls hasn't done. Your defense of him is getting more irrational. I will not take back my claim because all I claimed is that he could have lied and that is would be a very easy play for him to make. That would make it more likely a lie on his end than a lie on my end but I believe it is likely a lie on NEITHER of our ends and is merely a roleblock. That is a point i emphasized many times yet you're still saying I accused him of being mafia. I asked him a question, brought up the possibility that he lied, but I didn't accuse him of being a liar or a mafia. You're putting words in my mouth and it is very very obvious Pandain. A tribute to your so-called "transparency". It's a lie to say I'm fervently defending jcarl. What I'm doing is pointing out that your theory does not make sense. And so you bring this up, but don't think he's mafia? So why would you bring it up, since it could only bring suscipcion upon him. It's because your trying to find your way out of this mess. "For all I know you could or couldn't be". Ok that's a tautology isn't it? You're over rating me as a mafia player and then saying my actions are anti town. But lets not say how they're anti-town right? Is it anti-town to soak up roleblocks to help other roles? Is it anti-town because as far as I know I have the best chance of confirming my role to another player with my night action? It is anti town to lie to get elected, to claim your role is important and that is why you must get elected, and then admit there's possiblities you can't confirm yourself. It is anti town to make grasps at logic and far fetched theories. It is anti town because if you were town and you know/knew a roleblocker would ruin your "confirmation" you wouldn't have lied and said otherwise, and if you were mafia it makes perfect sense. Your attack is what if well maybe and it could. I explained all of my actions. I explained why I didn't talk about the possiblity of roleclaiming. I explained why I later ditched the "100%" thing. I've explained why I've done and said everything I've said. To say that I'm mafia becaue I'm not 100% town isn't a good argument.
You didn't ditch the 100% thing, you've defended yourself using the "what if's, it could, and perhaps".
Doesn't really mean anything. If the insanity thing was such a big deal people could have switched bandwagons. The problem is the insanity thing applies to everyone and it isn't a point against me, it's just a part of this game that must be considered.
Everything adds up Pandain.
How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect? Well we could start with the intial concern from infinitestory that my poke transfers murrayitis to a person. Perhaps the poke doesn't confirm itself to the other player but does tell me if they have murrayitis. Perhaps my poke only has a certain chance of going through. There are many possibilities here Pandain, am I really supposed to believe you couldn't think of 1?
Yeah, it is. That is the importance of my role as I understand it and as it is described in my role PM. What else do I have to go off of? Would you like me to tell you the importance of my role in an insane variation which I have no way of predicting or knowing?
You're attacking me for defending him. Let me call it a chainsaw defense, which is even worse. What theory doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that jcarls could have lied? You're not even considering that? In order to bring up the possibility that he might not be telling the truth I have to also accuse him of being mafia? Wow dude I never thought you would make such awful points.
My poke didn't go through to him and you all want to know why. So I'm telling you all the ways this could be possible and jcarls telling a lie is one of these things. It's a possibility among many that I have offered and it is the one I am pursuing the least and even calling the least likely. Just drop it. I never accused jcarls and your clown-ass arguments aren't coming anywhere close to making it look like I did.
I didn't lie to get elected. I had no reason to distrust the mods and never truly considered the possibility that my role was insane when I was talking about 100% confirmation. I intentionally withheld information because I didn't want the mafia to consider the possiblity that I would be soaking up roleblocks they might have. This is a "lie" designed to benefit town.
I did ditch the 100% thing. I consistently recognized the possibility that I would be insane and offered checks against it to the town.
On November 01 2010 11:58 Misder wrote: Well, we now know almost certainly that DH is vulnerable. Now the question is whether or not protecting him is the right thing, as again, there is speculation on whether or not hes mafia or not. Right now, I'm pretty torn. People are right on how there really is no way to gaurantee that DH will have an opportunity to confirm himself. Then again, he's making good analysis and making everything up is pretty hard to do... unless he got his mafia buddies to help. Maybe (speculation again...) he made up the role, and he and his mafia made it based on Bill Murray on purpose to make it sound believable. It's really stretched, but a possibility. Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
I wonder if mafia knew that annul was a bodygaurd. It seems so out of there. Why would mafia try to go for annul in the first place? It's not like he made any amazingly good posts that would screw up mafia.
actually he hasn't made any good analysis, if you note all he's done is say "they could be this, but then again they could be that."
On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia.
Does this count for our roles as well? Orgoloves role had misinformation in it, I assume this could apply to any of us.
On November 01 2010 11:58 Misder wrote: Well, we now know almost certainly that DH is vulnerable. Now the question is whether or not protecting him is the right thing, as again, there is speculation on whether or not hes mafia or not. Right now, I'm pretty torn. People are right on how there really is no way to gaurantee that DH will have an opportunity to confirm himself. Then again, he's making good analysis and making everything up is pretty hard to do... unless he got his mafia buddies to help. Maybe (speculation again...) he made up the role, and he and his mafia made it based on Bill Murray on purpose to make it sound believable. It's really stretched, but a possibility. Anyone know who pointed out the link between Sticky and the stick of Bill Murray?
I wonder if mafia knew that annul was a bodygaurd. It seems so out of there. Why would mafia try to go for annul in the first place? It's not like he made any amazingly good posts that would screw up mafia.
actually he hasn't made any good analysis, if you note all he's done is say "they could be this, but then again they could be that."
lol what a weak brush off of my analysis posts
your right, you put effort into it. He hasn't made any real conclusions, better gets across what I'm trying to say.
I made real conclusions. Like that NB is probably a bad townie instead of mafia, that Misder is trying to fish for roleclaims in this game and needs to be watched.
I'm not going to say "oh this player is mafia" if I don't feel the signs are strong enough. That doesn't make my analysis useless, that's such bullshit.
On November 01 2010 12:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to say that LSB and I will never outright lie about something. If something is false in something I said, there will almost always be hints to it. This is not a game where the town has to battle both the GM and the mafia.
Does this count for our roles as well? Orgoloves role had misinformation in it, I assume this could apply to any of us.
This was purely psychological. Also, the role PM's are not the only PM's some players get.
Let me rephrase this. Is is possible that our roles may not work exactly as described in our role PM's?
On November 01 2010 12:21 Pandain wrote: Alright, I think just a series of reasonable questions will help express my point. Actually, sometimes I can't express an argument in question form so :/
On November 01 2010 12:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Doesn't really mean anything. If the insanity thing was such a big deal people could have switched bandwagons. The problem is the insanity thing applies to everyone and it isn't a point against me, it's just a part of this game that must be considered. 1.There were only two hours left 2. A major factor is that no one can even say if you actually used your role. The person who you claimed to have poked says he received no such thing. Now you defend yourself by saying you could've been roleblocked, or he could've been bussed. The first point is okay, but negated for reasons later expressed below. The second point is just illogical. It is more logical to assume you are mafia than that jcarl just happened to get bussed.
Everything adds up Pandain.
How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect? Well we could start with the intial concern from infinitestory that my poke transfers murrayitis to a person. Perhaps the poke doesn't confirm itself to the other player but does tell me if they have murrayitis. Perhaps my poke only has a certain chance of going through. There are many possibilities here Pandain, am I really supposed to believe you couldn't think of 1?
Point is it didn't even happen Yeah, it is. That is the importance of my role as I understand it and as it is described in my role PM. What else do I have to go off of? Would you like me to tell you the importance of my role in an insane variation which I have no way of predicting or knowing?
Exactly! So why are you running if your role has a high chance of being unimportant. You claim its to soak up POTENTIAL roleblockers, but any townie could run and do just that. You're attacking me for defending him. Let me call it a chainsaw defense, which is even worse. What theory doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that jcarls could have lied? You're not even considering that? In order to bring up the possibility that he might not be telling the truth I have to also accuse him of being mafia? Wow dude I never thought you would make such awful points. Yes, it doesn't make sense for jcarl to lie. You yourself think he hasn't, and yet you critizice me for defending just that. I have considered it, but consider it highly more likely you are just scum.
My poke didn't go through to him and you all want to know why. So I'm telling you all the ways this could be possible and jcarls telling a lie is one of these things. It's a possibility among many that I have offered and it is the one I am pursuing the least and even calling the least likely. Just drop it. I never accused jcarls and your clown-ass arguments aren't coming anywhere close to making it look like I did.' Why did you lie to us if you knew this could happen. Why did you continue to claim you could be 100% confirmed Why would wasting a potential roleblocker's use on one night outweigh having an unconfirmed mayor who's lied.
I didn't lie to get elected. I had no reason to distrust the mods and never truly considered the possibility that my role was insane when I was talking about 100% confirmation. I intentionally withheld information because I didn't want the mafia to consider the possiblity that I would be soaking up roleblocks they might have. This is a "lie" designed to benefit town.
You start with "I didn't lie to get elected" and end with "this is a lie designed to benefit town." You claimed you would be 100% confirmed, now you claim you knew this would not happen. I did ditch the 100% thing. I consistently recognized the possibility that I would be insane and offered checks against it to the town. see the quote
STOP
Youngminii, I think you're reading selectively. Even if Pandain himself isn't right, his arguments have foundations, including in a very revealing post by Coagulation a couple pages ago, namely one which highlights the lies in DrH's campaign. In that sense, your usage of LAL is suspiciously focused as well.
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied
how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke
Like I said, the poke going through only confirms your role does what you say it does. Can I trust you that what you say your role does = 100% of your role? I don't know, especially in light of a recent revelation of a fake roleclaim.
Would you like to just go ahead and accuse me of making up the role of sticky altogether?
Don't you think confirming that my role does what it says I does does quite a bit? It confirms the sticky exists and that I am the sticky, it would prove I wasn't lying about my role and my confirmation power.
On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke
Like I said, the poke going through only confirms your role does what you say it does. Can I trust you that what you say your role does = 100% of your role? I don't know, especially in light of a recent revelation of a fake roleclaim.
Would you like to just go ahead and accuse me of making up the role of sticky altogether?
Don't you think confirming that my role does what it says I does does quite a bit? It confirms the sticky exists and that I am the sticky, it would prove I wasn't lying about my role and my confirmation power.
Dr.H, I think a more important part of this post is "that what you say your role does = 100% of your role?"
Do I suspect that you are holding any part of your role apart from us? Probably not, you have described your role pretty greatly, and I think any other powers added to it would be OP. However, I do think this is a necessary precaution to think about, and infinitestory is probably wise to do so.
No, the power of the role is to confirm itself to other players and also to determine if they do or don't have murrayitis. That's all.
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity. Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.
On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And again
Again I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again. Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.
Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you
cute addition ;o you're so snarky
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth? I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not. how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity. Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.
On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And again
Again I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again. Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.
Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you
cute addition ;o you're so snarky
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth? I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not. how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
Just stop replying to him, no one except infinitestory (and his scum buddies if he's scum) will listen to him. You'll drag it on too.
Why? The more desperate he gets the better everyone can see how scummy he's playing.
And how easy it would be for the mafia to turn it against me if I just say nothing at all. Regardless I feel like this a lot of noise designed to distract from the Aeres situation.
On November 01 2010 12:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh my god that was embarassing. Just as Pandain tried to vote, a green substance was flinged at his direction. He ran out of the voting booth crying.
Day 2 - 43 hours to go Aeres: 3 Ace youngminii bumatlarge
On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote: Alright, basically Doc here's the thing
You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important.
No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down.
But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock.
You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor.
The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much.
But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens.
I'm still claiming that by the way.
With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous.
You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while.
Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude.
On November 01 2010 12:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh my god that was embarassing. Just as Pandain tried to vote, a green substance was flinged at his direction. He ran out of the voting booth crying.
Day 2 - 43 hours to go Aeres: 3 Ace youngminii bumatlarge
Jcarlsoniv: 1 Elder Vote
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Well, now a vote on you has been nullified twice.
True but one was a vote to make me mayor and the other is a vote to make me dead ;o. Very differnet things don't you think?
On October 31 2010 08:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Someone wasn't happy. He picked his nose and threw a booger at the anonimous mafia voter. In shame, the mafia quickly ran out, his vote negated.
On November 01 2010 12:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh my god that was embarassing. Just as Pandain tried to vote, a green substance was flinged at his direction. He ran out of the voting booth crying.
Day 2 - 43 hours to go Aeres: 3 Ace youngminii bumatlarge
Jcarlsoniv: 1 Elder Vote
One interesting thing to note about the two nullifications is that the first one is just called "Anon-Mafia voter", while the second vote is identified as Pandain. Do you think this has any implication that Mafia voters who are negated come up anonymous while town ones wouldn't?
It is possible that the role in question can nullify any one vote regardless of alignment. Now, Artanis admitted that the mafia get an anonymous vote so the fact that the first negated vote was anonymous is likely unrelated to the boogerflinger role.
But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens. With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
This is a good point Pandain, I don't think Mafia would have known I would be poked. I had no idea myself that Dr.H even noticed I was posting (he did call me inactive at the beginning of the game after all =P).
This leads me to believe that you were indeed role-blocked Dr.H
This is where we are at. It is Dr. H's word, and his word alone. We have no idea if there is a roleblocker, or if he was actually roleblocked if the former is true.
I suppose it's my word until my poke goes through to someone.
But when you realize Dr. H knew he could be roleblocked, leaving town unsure of his alignment, yet runs on a campaign of "I'm going to be confirmed!", that is anti town. Everyone knew I could have been roleblocked. It's not my fault I was the only one who considered the possibility a roleblocker existed. I had admitted to a few possibilities that might hinder my confirmation during my campaign before I was elected, but that's something you'd rather ignore eh?
And then he brings up more far fetched things such as indeed that mafia just happened to bus you.
Never said busdriver would a mafia role or that he was bussed. I said it was a possibility. Should I not talk about what things are possible? About the different ways my action could have been blocked? A
On November 01 2010 12:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh my god that was embarassing. Just as Pandain tried to vote, a green substance was flinged at his direction. He ran out of the voting booth crying.
Day 2 - 43 hours to go Aeres: 3 Ace youngminii bumatlarge
Jcarlsoniv: 1 Elder Vote
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Well, now a vote on you has been nullified twice.
True but one was a vote to make me mayor and the other is a vote to make me dead ;o. Very differnet things don't you think?
To be fair, the Do-Gooder was required to use his vote on a mafia, whether it be during the mayor election or a regular lynch election.
And the do-gooder didn't vote which is why he was modkilled
On November 01 2010 13:06 Misder wrote: I'm going to bring this up again, why do you think mafia chose to kill annul? Do you think they found about him being the bodygaurd? Cause I don't see another reason why mafia would kill him. He didn't make any amazingly good post that would screw mafia over did he?
he's an extremely good player and his play in haunted mafia singlehandedly brought the vampires to victory pretty much
I'd consider him the best newer player aside from kingjames01.
WIFOM but if mafia anticipated medics would protect experienced players he's a sensible hit.
On October 31 2010 08:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Someone wasn't happy. He picked his nose and threw a booger at the anonimous mafia voter. In shame, the mafia quickly ran out, his vote negated.
On November 01 2010 12:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh my god that was embarassing. Just as Pandain tried to vote, a green substance was flinged at his direction. He ran out of the voting booth crying.
Day 2 - 43 hours to go Aeres: 3 Ace youngminii bumatlarge
Jcarlsoniv: 1 Elder Vote
One interesting thing to note about the two nullifications is that the first one is just called "Anon-Mafia voter", while the second vote is identified as Pandain. Do you think this has any implication that Mafia voters who are negated come up anonymous while town ones wouldn't?
On October 31 2010 08:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Someone wasn't happy. He picked his nose and threw a booger at the anonimous mafia voter. In shame, the mafia quickly ran out, his vote negated.
On November 01 2010 12:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Oh my god that was embarassing. Just as Pandain tried to vote, a green substance was flinged at his direction. He ran out of the voting booth crying.
Day 2 - 43 hours to go Aeres: 3 Ace youngminii bumatlarge
Jcarlsoniv: 1 Elder Vote
One interesting thing to note about the two nullifications is that the first one is just called "Anon-Mafia voter", while the second vote is identified as Pandain. Do you think this has any implication that Mafia voters who are negated come up anonymous while town ones wouldn't?
It is possible that the role in question can nullify any one vote regardless of alignment. Now, Artanis admitted that the mafia get an anonymous vote so the fact that the first negated vote was anonymous is likely unrelated to the boogerflinger role.
On November 01 2010 13:06 Misder wrote: I'm going to bring this up again, why do you think mafia chose to kill annul? Do you think they found about him being the bodygaurd? Cause I don't see another reason why mafia would kill him. He didn't make any amazingly good post that would screw mafia over did he?
he's an extremely good player and his play in haunted mafia singlehandedly brought the vampires to victory pretty much
I'd consider him the best newer player aside from kingjames01.
WIFOM but if mafia anticipated medics would protect experienced players he's a sensible hit.
So, the mafia are lynching strong newer players? O_o (kingjames and annul)
If they felt that medics would protect the likes of fishball, bum, and ace it makes sense.
Annul is experienced at mafia just not TL mafia and it's a point he's brought up the few times. BrownBear is a vet as well.
On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote: Alright, basically Doc here's the thing
You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important.
No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down. You said you, like me, could confirm myself 100%. and this is after you claim to have disregarded the "100%" thing.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
Not that I'm referring to your post which is in referral to my previous claim of 100% confirmation which I stick by circumstantially (as a 100% confirmation when my night action is not interfered with).
But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock.
You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor.
The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much. Except for the fact that now you are unconfirmed. What? Like I said. The mafia has to choose what is worse. Having me confirm or wasting their roleblock (if they have one.
But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens.
I'm still claiming that by the way. *yawn* tell me when it does Useless comment. I'll tell everyone obviously.
With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous. Yes it is far fetched. Do you honestly think mafia would know you would check Jcarl? I can't really comment on whether you made it up, or are GF, as there are numerous options all viable. Why assume busdriver is a mafia role? Why assum ethere is no town aligned commuter/hider role? If I was GF I would have had to made up the Sticky role as Artanis confirmed GF would have to do in the case that the role of GF existed. Also you are assuming there is a godfather which may not be the case. Why are you assuming Godfather exists? You're saying I either made up my role or I am the GF when both cases mean the same thing. That I made my role up. You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while.
Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude. You campaigned on the basis you would be confirmed. Just bringing up the fact someone could lie(which is doubtful anyway) does not make you innocent Why is it doubtful? It's doubtful that the person I confirmed to would lie but it's not doubtful that I would lie? Do you think if I confirmed to a mafia they would tell the town that I confirmed to them? Come on.
On November 01 2010 13:16 Nemesis wrote: I don't know why there are a good amount of people lynching Aeres. Aeres basically roleclaimed to take a hit incase DC was actually bodyguard. And if he isn't lying about his role, that is basically the best thing he can do with it.
Also, what benefit could roleclaiming as bodyguard give mafia really?
On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct?
In essence, yes.
That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did.
Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia.
However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard. By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you.
It's also a way to setup a potential suicide bomber or the role that Misder talks about which is a mafia role that knows the role and name of anyone who targets him.
On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote: Alright, basically Doc here's the thing
You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important.
No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down. You said you, like me, could confirm myself 100%. and this is after you claim to have disregarded the "100%" thing.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
Not that I'm referring to your post which is in referral to my previous claim of 100% confirmation which I stick by circumstantially (as a 100% confirmation when my night action is not interfered with). Your reffering to both, and if you note the words "can" and "being" its obviously reffering to both mine and yours.
But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock.
You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor.
The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much. Except for the fact that now you are unconfirmed. What? Like I said. The mafia has to choose what is worse. Having me confirm or wasting their roleblock (if they have one. Great, letting mafia decide everything. A lie won't really benefit town if it has a huge draw back :/ But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens.
I'm still claiming that by the way. *yawn* tell me when it does Useless comment. I'll tell everyone obviously. point is most likely it's not going to happen anytime soon, and I highly doubt it will ever With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous. Yes it is far fetched. Do you honestly think mafia would know you would check Jcarl? I can't really comment on whether you made it up, or are GF, as there are numerous options all viable. Why assume busdriver is a mafia role? Why assum ethere is no town aligned commuter/hider role? If I was GF I would have had to made up the Sticky role as Artanis confirmed GF would have to do in the case that the role of GF existed. Also you are assuming there is a godfather which may not be the case. Why are you assuming Godfather exists? You're saying I either made up my role or I am the GF when both cases mean the same thing. That I made my role up. Why, why why. If there is a bus driver who is town, they'll claim so. Othwerwise, it's pretty safe to assume any one will be mafia. And what do you mean assume there is no commuter/hider role. Jcarl isn't, or else he would've said so. Point is there are many things that could happen if you are mafia which explain this situation. There is really only one for you: You were roleblocked, or are lying. And character evidence doesn't exactly help you. You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while.
Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude. You campaigned on the basis you would be confirmed. Just bringing up the fact someone could lie(which is doubtful anyway) does not make you innocent Why is it doubtful? It's doubtful that the person I confirmed to would lie but it's not doubtful that I would lie? Do you think if I confirmed to a mafia they would tell the town that I confirmed to them? Come on. you yourself believed, and still believe Jcarl is not. However, due to your way of winning the election I am highly suscipcious of you.
That is why I am voting you
Too bad your vote didn't even go through lol
so many colors.............
also note how his argument is devolving. You cannot ignore this people, do not jump on a bandwagon to aeres.
devolving? how so? I feel I'm being pretty consistent.
On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote: Alright, basically Doc here's the thing
You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important.
No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down. You said you, like me, could confirm myself 100%. and this is after you claim to have disregarded the "100%" thing.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
Not that I'm referring to your post which is in referral to my previous claim of 100% confirmation which I stick by circumstantially (as a 100% confirmation when my night action is not interfered with). Your reffering to both, and if you note the words "can" and "being" its obviously reffering to both mine and yours.
But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock.
You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor.
The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much. Except for the fact that now you are unconfirmed. What? Like I said. The mafia has to choose what is worse. Having me confirm or wasting their roleblock (if they have one. Great, letting mafia decide everything. A lie won't really benefit town if it has a huge draw back :/ But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens.
I'm still claiming that by the way. *yawn* tell me when it does Useless comment. I'll tell everyone obviously. point is most likely it's not going to happen anytime soon, and I highly doubt it will ever With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous. Yes it is far fetched. Do you honestly think mafia would know you would check Jcarl? I can't really comment on whether you made it up, or are GF, as there are numerous options all viable. Why assume busdriver is a mafia role? Why assum ethere is no town aligned commuter/hider role? If I was GF I would have had to made up the Sticky role as Artanis confirmed GF would have to do in the case that the role of GF existed. Also you are assuming there is a godfather which may not be the case. Why are you assuming Godfather exists? You're saying I either made up my role or I am the GF when both cases mean the same thing. That I made my role up. Why, why why. If there is a bus driver who is town, they'll claim so. Othwerwise, it's pretty safe to assume any one will be mafia. And what do you mean assume there is no commuter/hider role. Jcarl isn't, or else he would've said so. Point is there are many things that could happen if you are mafia which explain this situation. There is really only one for you: You were roleblocked, or are lying. And character evidence doesn't exactly help you. You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while.
Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude. You campaigned on the basis you would be confirmed. Just bringing up the fact someone could lie(which is doubtful anyway) does not make you innocent Why is it doubtful? It's doubtful that the person I confirmed to would lie but it's not doubtful that I would lie? Do you think if I confirmed to a mafia they would tell the town that I confirmed to them? Come on. you yourself believed, and still believe Jcarl is not. However, due to your way of winning the election I am highly suscipcious of you.
That is why I am voting you
Too bad your vote didn't even go through lol
so many colors.............
also note how his argument is devolving. You cannot ignore this people, do not jump on a bandwagon to aeres.
devolving? how so? I feel I'm being pretty consistent.
Basically disagreeing what a sentence clearly says, disagreeing with yourself "Even though I think jcarl is town, and that he is telling the truth, i think he lied", so forth
YOU ARE SO BAD AT LYING
WHEN DID I EVER SAY JCARLS WAS LYING
I said it was "more likely", I never accused him. I never went back on what I said. I explained this to you 3 times and you dropped it and now you're bringing up that ridiculous argument again.
Could you be trying harder to make me look red Mr.Mafia?
On November 01 2010 12:55 Pandain wrote: Alright, basically Doc here's the thing
You lied. You said, constantly said, even after you claim you had abandoned it, that you could confirm yourself 100%. You also admit that that is why your role is important.
No I didn't and I just kinda proved that after your pathetic attempt to make it seem that way in your last post. You keep repeating the same argument every time I knock it down. You said you, like me, could confirm myself 100%. and this is after you claim to have disregarded the "100%" thing.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
Not that I'm referring to your post which is in referral to my previous claim of 100% confirmation which I stick by circumstantially (as a 100% confirmation when my night action is not interfered with). Your reffering to both, and if you note the words "can" and "being" its obviously reffering to both mine and yours.
But then you also admit you knew you were a prime contender for a roleblock.
You misled the town, which you explain now as soaking up roleblocks. But any town can do that, and unless mafia already know who the dt's are or something there's no reason to soak up a roleblock. But this also brings up another point, now you also ran, despite the fact you knew you could likely be roleblocked, to soak up roleblocks. Not to be confirmed, which is why I and many others chose you to be mayor.
The mafia (assuming they roleblocked me) now has to choose to allow me to confirm, undoing all the damage done to my campaign and character or to continue roleblocking me and allow other blue roles to act unchecked. This is a play that helps town very much. Except for the fact that now you are unconfirmed. What? Like I said. The mafia has to choose what is worse. Having me confirm or wasting their roleblock (if they have one. Great, letting mafia decide everything. A lie won't really benefit town if it has a huge draw back :/ But you went along with claiming you could be confirmed, and then night comes and nothing happens.
I'm still claiming that by the way. *yawn* tell me when it does Useless comment. I'll tell everyone obviously. point is most likely it's not going to happen anytime soon, and I highly doubt it will ever With a hidden role setup, we have no way of knowing if you are what you say you are, or even if there is a roleblocker. And it is far to easy to wave aside everything by reaching to far fetched theories such as "perhaps jcarl just happened to be bussed! Cause they definitely knew I was checking him, and Jcarl was def a prime contender for visiting people.
Far fetched? You think it's far fetched that Jcarl could have been bussed or that I could have been roleblocked but far more likely that I just made all this shit up? Why don't you go ahead and say I made the role of sticky up so I can make you look even more desperate and ridiculous. Yes it is far fetched. Do you honestly think mafia would know you would check Jcarl? I can't really comment on whether you made it up, or are GF, as there are numerous options all viable. Why assume busdriver is a mafia role? Why assum ethere is no town aligned commuter/hider role? If I was GF I would have had to made up the Sticky role as Artanis confirmed GF would have to do in the case that the role of GF existed. Also you are assuming there is a godfather which may not be the case. Why are you assuming Godfather exists? You're saying I either made up my role or I am the GF when both cases mean the same thing. That I made my role up. Why, why why. If there is a bus driver who is town, they'll claim so. Othwerwise, it's pretty safe to assume any one will be mafia. And what do you mean assume there is no commuter/hider role. Jcarl isn't, or else he would've said so. Point is there are many things that could happen if you are mafia which explain this situation. There is really only one for you: You were roleblocked, or are lying. And character evidence doesn't exactly help you. You misled the town to get elected, and cannot back up what you are saying you could do. And from the looks of it, we won't be able to for a while.
Sure I can back it up. If my poke goes through it confirms my role. If I get roleblocked or my target is commuted/hidden/bussed/a mafia liar/whatever it won't go through and it won't work. It was obvious from the moment I claimed and explained how my role worked that this was a possibility. I even brought up the possibility that the person I poke could simply lie about it in the past. Come on dude. You campaigned on the basis you would be confirmed. Just bringing up the fact someone could lie(which is doubtful anyway) does not make you innocent Why is it doubtful? It's doubtful that the person I confirmed to would lie but it's not doubtful that I would lie? Do you think if I confirmed to a mafia they would tell the town that I confirmed to them? Come on. you yourself believed, and still believe Jcarl is not. However, due to your way of winning the election I am highly suscipcious of you.
That is why I am voting you
Too bad your vote didn't even go through lol
so many colors.............
also note how his argument is devolving. You cannot ignore this people, do not jump on a bandwagon to aeres.
It's not devolving, it just hasn't gone anywhere at all. You both are saying the same thing over and over, and I think it needs to stop for now.
That being said, I want to make sure the town doesn't just feel too secure with Dr.H (youngminii is too secure imo, a bit suspicious). This shouldn't just drop off the face of the game, but at the same time, I think new issues should be looked at for the time being. This argument between you two is getting the town nowhere.
it's getting pandain more and more desperate and he's revealing himself as scummier and scummier with every post
On November 01 2010 13:55 Coagulation wrote: its pretty clear to me that pandain is just butthurt that doch won the mayor candidacy instead of him and now hes taking his frustration out on him for beating him at the mayor race and not coming thru with what he promised in the process.
as much as i dont trust doch at the moment unfortunately there is not much we can do. no amount of arguing is gonna make him say "oh damn your right im a red you got me" so its pointless.
but it isn't plausible he's a red trying to attack me? your defense of him is pretty transparent
On November 01 2010 15:04 Fishball wrote: Speaking of lies, we need to look back whoever started this. All this could just be a ploy. I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this.
I think everyone became distrustful of mods when orgolove died. It seems any sort of mod deception is limited to role mechanics and that it would be hinted at in the role itself. It was hinted at in orgoloves role with the mere name "ADD doctor".
I searched "mod lie" and didn't really get any early results that came back with anything.
or perhaps some role that benefits from being lynched in some way
earlier in the thread during your "campaign" for mayor you seemed very comfortable with idea of the town lynching you while being very adverse to the possibility that you might be killed at night
On November 01 2010 20:18 Coagulation wrote: regarding drh situation.
1. doch is a red and hes been playing us the whole time and now has town by the balls.
2. doch is a blue and due to his terrible misleading promises and false claims of being able to confirm his role/alignment he has basically handed the mafia the ability to have a fucking field day on the town causing panic and distrust to cloud everyones views. mafia has town by the balls.
can you see maybe why im a little mad at the situation doch?
regarding aeres
he made a shitty move and it looks extremely scummy whether hes a red or just an inexperienced player that made a mistake i have no idea. so far the best anyone has to go on and everyone seems ok with that. maybe a little too ok. keep an eye on it.
regarding youngminii
this was doch number 1 suspect 75% of the game so much that he had made him his first lynch as mayor. right out the gate doch is gunning to take him out. then what happens? youngminii dodges the lynch ? now for some reason doch isnt even thinking twice about youngminii? did i miss something? Was he pardoned or something? Im wondering what your stance is on youngmainii currently, doch?. the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy.
I have my suspicions about youngminii for sure. My main concern is that he is a traitor role that is originally town but when lynched becomes mafia (I've read about roles like this on mafiascum wiki and it can only be pure speculation). He wasn't my number 1 suspect 75% of the game. I chose SiNiquity over him because I was less convinced about SiN's vote but his martyrdom post after finding out he was my #1 choice made me change my mind and switch the two.
My plan at that point was to lynch the scummiest inactive and not to lynch the scummiest active player.
However, I feel Aeres it the best choice for now. You seem to agree.
My promises aren't misleading and I never made any false claims. I explained this to you and pandain a lot of times in a lot of posts in the thread before and for the sake of regurgitating the same arguments i urge you (and everyone) to carefully read my exchanges with Pandain over the course of the last 10 or so pages.
I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again. I have the power to confirm my role to another player. Obviously there is the possibility that this role can be disrupted by other roles or that the person who I confirm to could lie about it. Both are possible. There is also a possibility my role is insane in some way but there is nothing in my role PM to make me believe that and Artanis alluded to the fact that if a role was indeed deceptive in some way that there would be some sort of clue within the role description itself.
if I'm roleblocked every night then you'd have to trust me which is as good as anything other mayoral candidates offered and I'd be soaking up whatever roleblock power it was. we can only see what happens.
a DT could investigate me as well if that would add any security to anyones mind. there is not necessarily a godfather in this game and I'd be suspicious of players operating under the assumption hat the godfather exists particularly in a game where the godfather would have to make up a role for himself.
On November 02 2010 01:06 L wrote: That's because Aeres is probably a hatter type role that wanted to get hit, so he claimed BG to draw attention to himself and away from more vulnerable/valuable players. He's likely not a VI role, because the revealed roles thusfar are relatively watered down and mafia started with 9 fucking members + there's aids going around (unless the game design is based around town's ability to use murrayitis as a shock and awe town controlled kp attack, which it doesn't seem to be).
The push to get him killed here is pretty understandable due to people loving LAL, but there's zero way someone would vote for themselves as mafia with the usual suspects driving a bus over him. Or rather that would hold unless there was a huge benefit to be gained from him dying. Either a mafia bomb type role (seems unlikely due to plague mechanics) or his death pushes another mafia member into a trusted position vis a vis the town where he can ask for roleclaims.
As for this Young/DrH/Pandain/Infinite circle of morons situation going on, there's a few things which just don't really add up; DrH campaigned on being able to 100% confirm himself and clearly lied about it. LAL should apply to him to, right?
Wrong.
DrH can still confirm himself, but he needs to die for it to happen. I'm not sure if DrH is fumbling for time as his ability gathers information which he'll confirm as valid with a self-kill, but it seems rather odd that young would try to focus attention onto Aeres and cite LAL when LAL can be applied to DrH too. This leads me to believe that DrH/Young are in a circle together, and DrH is feeding him information, which he'll, again, confirm by death.
No it can't because I didn't lie about anything. I don't need to die to confirm I only need to have a successful poke. :/
If it wasn't for that, based on the aeres situation, I'd suggest killing DrH immediately in order to find out what allegiance Aeres has. Aeres is either innocent or sacking himself to benefit another mafia member; there was no benefit to fakeclaiming BG of all roles. This is based on the fact that DrH stands to benefit the most from the diverted attention and post-lynch bragging rights if Aeres flips red.
There's some kind of intense attention-fu going on here to keep us discussing a certain set of facts, which leads me to believe that someone fucked up pretty hard and outed themselves earlier and we're actively being pushed away from that. Given that I kinda just read pages 10,20,30, etc until 80-92, I'm not entirely certain what's being thrown under the rug, but when I get more time and less women offering themselves to me, I'll be sure go over more material in search thereof.
Is anyone willing to consider the possibility that mafia aren't the ones spreading the plague? A lot of people are operating the assumption that mafia are the ones spreading M-rus (as did I, originally interpreting 2+1 as 2 killers + 1 m-rus spreader) but we already know that's not the case since 3 die in a night and because of nodes role
On November 02 2010 01:06 L wrote: That's because Aeres is probably a hatter type role that wanted to get hit, so he claimed BG to draw attention to himself and away from more vulnerable/valuable players. He's likely not a VI role, because the revealed roles thusfar are relatively watered down and mafia started with 9 fucking members + there's aids going around (unless the game design is based around town's ability to use murrayitis as a shock and awe town controlled kp attack, which it doesn't seem to be).
The push to get him killed here is pretty understandable due to people loving LAL, but there's zero way someone would vote for themselves as mafia with the usual suspects driving a bus over him. Or rather that would hold unless there was a huge benefit to be gained from him dying. Either a mafia bomb type role (seems unlikely due to plague mechanics) or his death pushes another mafia member into a trusted position vis a vis the town where he can ask for roleclaims.
As for this Young/DrH/Pandain/Infinite circle of morons situation going on, there's a few things which just don't really add up; DrH campaigned on being able to 100% confirm himself and clearly lied about it. LAL should apply to him to, right?
Wrong.
DrH can still confirm himself, but he needs to die for it to happen. I'm not sure if DrH is fumbling for time as his ability gathers information which he'll confirm as valid with a self-kill, but it seems rather odd that young would try to focus attention onto Aeres and cite LAL when LAL can be applied to DrH too. This leads me to believe that DrH/Young are in a circle together, and DrH is feeding him information, which he'll, again, confirm by death.
No it can't because I didn't lie about anything. I don't need to die to confirm I only need to have a successful poke. :/
If it wasn't for that, based on the aeres situation, I'd suggest killing DrH immediately in order to find out what allegiance Aeres has. Aeres is either innocent or sacking himself to benefit another mafia member; there was no benefit to fakeclaiming BG of all roles. This is based on the fact that DrH stands to benefit the most from the diverted attention and post-lynch bragging rights if Aeres flips red.
There's some kind of intense attention-fu going on here to keep us discussing a certain set of facts, which leads me to believe that someone fucked up pretty hard and outed themselves earlier and we're actively being pushed away from that. Given that I kinda just read pages 10,20,30, etc until 80-92, I'm not entirely certain what's being thrown under the rug, but when I get more time and less women offering themselves to me, I'll be sure go over more material in search thereof.
But if you cannot have a successful poke, no matter what reason, then you can never prove your role. It's that simple.
Oh, the paradox.
Well then that means every other player will be able to operate their night actions without restraint. If a player other than DrH was roleblocked that might be a bit suspicious...
It is still possible that jcarlsoniv or that there was a role that prevent people from acting on him rather than preventing me from acting at all. Or that jcarls did get poked and is not telling the truth about it. I feel that it's most likely I was simply roleblocked though.
I'm not backing down on the statement that I can confirm myself 100% to another player the same way a normal cop can 100% investigate another player, or a plague doctor can 100% cure the M-Rus. My night action has to happen though. That much should have obvious to EVERYONE when I roleclaimed and explained in detail how my role works.
If there is a roleblocker it may be very likely he can't even roleblock me twice in a row.
On November 02 2010 05:01 Pandain wrote: Don't like this voting on aeres, in fact imo the most suscipcious thing he's done so far is say "alright, I should die." In many of my games I often fake roleclaim if it will serve a purpose(-.- dr. h). However it was both premature and again, whats with someone saying they should be lynched.
I'll be doing an analysis of Dr. H tonight. However, he has like 400 posts so don't expect it anytime soon.
On November 02 2010 05:01 Pandain wrote: Don't like this voting on aeres, in fact imo the most suscipcious thing he's done so far is say "alright, I should die." In many of my games I often fake roleclaim if it will serve a purpose(-.- dr. h). However it was both premature and again, whats with someone saying they should be lynched.
I'll be doing an analysis of Dr. H tonight. However, he has like 400 posts so don't expect it anytime soon.
I look forward to it
i dont :O its gonna be like 50 pages long.
Also i voted youngminii because i don't want to vote aeres and he was the only one with votes
:O
i imagine it'll be just as bad/even worse than his attacks on me earlier
the more he can do to discredit himself as a valuable player the more everyone will see that nothing he says makes any sense and we can move on to more pressing issues
like this aeres/youngminii thing which I need to take a closer look at.
and will in due time. I need to take a shower/freshen up/eat and such.
Sticking onto inactives is something I think we should definitely not do. It's just as likely critical blue roles (DT's, doctors, whatever) are hiding amongst there.
Mafia are definitely pressing bandwagons/the discussion on one side of the town. We just have to figure out which one it is ;o
On November 02 2010 07:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote: ##Unvote InfiniteStory ##Vote DoctorHelvetica
wtf....
explain?
I wanted to see what sort of reaction a vote for InfiniteStory might revoke. I'm voting for myself as a placeholder as I am currently combing through the thread and analysing coagulation, youngminii, aeres, and sorta deconduo.
On October 29 2010 10:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Does the person with murrayitis know they have murrayitis?
With the exception of any doctor role, players will not be informed if they have murrayitis.
As of now, no one claims to have the disease so I assume that no doctor has the disease.
If DrH is telling the truth about his poking ability and his doctor role. He couldn't have the disease and the disease never transferred to another person.
Then who the mafia targeted with the disease and who the disease spread to. We have to figure this out soon or the game will end at an exponential rate.
My guess is that it's someone who stood out in day1 excluding DrH.
The disease wasn't put on me. I'm completely immune to M-Rus.
On November 02 2010 07:40 LunarDestiny wrote: Look over day 2 post again. 3 people are infected...
The logical reason is mafia targeted someone and that person came in contact with 2 others. I question who that person could be.
On October 29 2010 10:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On October 29 2010 10:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Does the person with murrayitis know they have murrayitis?
With the exception of any doctor role, players will not be informed if they have murrayitis.
As of now, no one claims to have the disease so I assume that no doctor has the disease.
If DrH is telling the truth about his poking ability and his doctor role. He couldn't have the disease and the disease never transferred to another person.
Then who the mafia targeted with the disease and who the disease spread to. We have to figure this out soon or the game will end at an exponential rate.
My guess is that it's someone who stood out in day1 excluding DrH.
The disease wasn't put on me. I'm completely immune to M-Rus.
how do you know again?
Because my role PM says I am immune to M-rus. Bill Murray's death gave me new life and I am immune to murrayitis.
Here is a summary of how I see the situation in the town right now.
Since I was not able to confirm myself to jcarlsoniv (either because he lied, because I lied, or because another night role prevented me from using my role) others in the town (mostly Pandain and Coagulation) have been very accusatory for me.
This is basically saying that because I was not confirmed to be town that means I am mafia. This is bad logic. This is a very simple situation. When I roleclaimed to the town and told them how my power of confirmation works it should have been equally obvious to everyone that a roleblocker role could stop me from acting and that the person I poke could lie. The latter is a possibility I openly talked about during my campaign, hoping it would make the mafia nervous and less likely to lie in the case that I do poke a mafia player.
The first I kept to myself. If the mafia are going to roleblock, it's better they roleblock me than say a plague doctor or a detective. This is something everyone should have known but really did not need to be said.
As far as the 100% confirmation issue, it is one that I dropped when I considered the possiblity that my role could be insane. The fact is, if my night action works, it confirms my role 100% to the person I poked in the exact way I've described a million times. I've been very consistent in my explanation of my role and I would argue that the assertion that I may have made up the role in the first place is absurd. I'll get to that later.
My night action depends on the night action succeeding. This is a tautology and I'm surprised people think it's something that needed to be set up. A typical sane medic can't protect someone if they are roleblocked but I doubt a medic would describe themselves as not being able to do their action.
I have since mostly stopped considering the idea that my role does not work the way it is described. Artanis said mods will not outright lie and that any deception in role PM's would be hinted at. I cannot quote my role PM, as it is cheating, but there is nothing in the role PM that could lead me to believe it is deceptive. There is no chance mechanic (like orgoloves) and the name/description is extremely straightforward. I poke someone and they know I poked them. If they don't know (and I wasn't roleblocked somehow) then it is because they have murrayitis. Artanis will tell me this. This means that if they DIDN'T get poked AND i don't get told they have murrayitis, that either:
A. Something stopped me from going forward with the role. A roleblocker or something else. B. The person I poked lied.
So I'm just going to leave that at that. That's how my role works. As far as the idea that maybe I'm lying about my role, sure anything is possible but lets look at my post history:
In the beginning of the thread Node was saying things that led me to believe that we might have the same role. I tried to fish to see if we did indeed have the same role.
On October 30 2010 06:17 Node wrote: The downside of secrecy is due to the nature of this particular game it's impossible to reveal any information without putting your head on the line. It's not exactly possible to be subtle -- it's all or nothing. I'm not in a position where I can gently guide town to the correct choices.
i have a feeling we have the same role actually
am i poking at the truth here?
Here I am trying to see if he responds to the term "poke". He doesn't so I try something a bit more obvious. No one except another sticky would get the reference and if Node wasn't the second sticky maybe someone else was. Basically I wanted to confirm that if I was the only sticky or not. If there was a second sticky who responded, I would know for a fact they were town aligned, and I would poke them during the night.
On October 30 2010 06:20 Node wrote: It would be a bizarre role to have more than one of, but I hear what you're saying.
now i'm thinking we don't have the same role, that puts me in a sticky situation but thats ok
This is my more obvious fish. This is very early in the thread.
Later kingjames discovers the significance of the name "Sticky" when Glasse tells me it sounds made up. Originally I thought sticky had something to do with that my body was covered in a sticky substance or something that made me immune to Murrayitis or that I was just a stick that poked people.
I forgot about the Bill Murray "Sticky" death post. It doesn't make sense that I wouldn't understand the name of a role that I MADE UP in the first place.
So lets say I made the role up. That means: 1. I anticipated Artanis' Bill Murray theme 2. Created a fake role which depends on indirectly communicating with other players, something that can be blocked. If I am mafia this requires me to out mafia to survive or sacrifice myself to a distrusting town for basically no reason or benefit 3. Coordinated with Node to fake a fish for the role I made up to appear as (presumably as Godfather) so I could later defend myself a few thousand posts later
And that I did all this to become mayor. A role that is NOT immune to rolechecks as it normally is, only has 1 extra vote (a negligible power since afaik mafia started out with 2 extra potential votes in the first place and there are other voting powers in the game. This diminishes the power of the mayor to swing bandwagons on his own)
Occams razor. Occams razor.
That is my general defense of the assaults that are happening on me right now. I believe this assault is a combination of mafia and misled town. The problem is determining who amongst this faction is town and who is mafia.
Knowing Pandain it is quite possible somebody wound him up and let him go off. Speculating on this will be difficult until we actually get a dead mafia. Then alliances in this game will become quite clear. The problem is getting our first lynch right. If vigilantes want to use your hit tonight, hit a player from the opposite "faction" or argumentative side as whoever was lynched unless the lynchee was a mafia.
So now I want to say some things about a few bad assumptions players are making:
1. Godfather exists 2. M-rus is a mafia ability 3. There has to be a mafia mayor candidate and it's one of the main ones
Watch out for people who continue talking about the godfather as though he is a for sure role in this game. Artanis confirmed it is up in the air. This however we do know, concerning the godfather.
1. If the Godfather exists, he must MAKE UP a role to appear as. If someone appears as a different role than they claimed in a DT check this is a huge paint for godfather as the GF has no way of knowing what roles are or aren't in the game. 2.If anyone else comes up as "Sticky" on a rolecheck besides myself, they're probably the Godfather. No one responded to my Sticky fish early in the game BUT because I believe I was the first person to reveal the name of my role the Godfather would know the name of 1 role in the game and it would be reasonable for him to choose that role. It was Glasse who first asked that I name my role.
2. Also we are assuming M-rus is a mafia ability. Node's roleclaim (and the fact that there are 3 deaths in the day) means we can pretty much forget the idea that the "2+1" mafia KP is 2 hits + 1 m-rus infection. I think it is more likely that M-rus is simply RNG'd onto a player or that another players role (not necessarily a mafia one) alludes to the fact that you are an insane/unknown M-rus carrier.
If the mafia spread M-Rus, perhaps they choose the person to put it on on day 1 and then thats it? The disease spreads quickly by how people visit eachother in the night, if the mafia could just continue spreading it around I think it would be very overpowered and they'd have half the town dead pretty quickly.
3. The mayor is not very strong in this game. Mafia don't need a mayor and in fact it might be more trouble for them than it's worth. 1 bodyguard, 1 extra vote, and that's really it as far as the mafia is concerned. Mafia aren't too scared of night kills as vig hits don't usually come until the late game and the main advantage of a mafia mayor is that he can't be rolechecked meaning you can give the Godfather role to another player.
Consider not only the intense scrutiny that the campaign brought initially (on myself, bum, pandain, and fishball) but the inense scrutiny that I am under now. Scrutiny on other mayoral candidates has since dropped off.
I believe that if mafia ran for mayor, it is quite possible it was one of the candidates that didn't do very well in the voting process. The mafia can then push the idea that "one of the main mayoral candidates MUST be mafia" while their initial runs for mayor go unscrutinized and unchecked. This is a possiblity. I do have suspicions that Pandain is mafia due to his poor attacks on me.
Lastly I want to say something. Forget about scumtells and all this stuff. When you look at what a player posts, yeah scumtells are all well and good, but any good mafia can point out a million scumtells that townies do and their town bandwagons depend on this. Look at a players goal. What is a player trying to accomplish? Is he arguing with the intent to get information crucial to the town or is he arguing with the intent to make a player look bad?
Scum wants to do the latter. They don't want the town to have any information, they don't care. What they do care about is that the town thinks someone else is scum or at the very least that the town doesn't trust the word of an experienced ally. Always think about the goal of the argument as well as the argument itself. Rhetoric is very important.
Factions forming in the town
This is something that is absolutely toxic to our ability to work together as a town to scumhunt.
By creating what appears to be alliances, the mafia can make several town players look bad or bus one mafia player to make several town players look bad. If we look at the series of defenses/attacks players have made on eachother a player could conclude that factions are forming within the game.
Just remember, it isn't necessarily all mafia on one side and one on the other. Dividing the town, creating factions, and drawing attention away from the facts and the arguments benefits the mafia. These factions are worth looking at when a mafia gets lynched and it becomes apparent who may have been a scumbuddy to that player.
That's my thoughts on the situation. I'll do some specific player analysis later. I'll be focusing on the seemingly opposing bandwagons concerning youngminii and Aeres as I feel mafia is behind one of these.
I'd like to ask Pandain a question. You said you would/could confirm yourself as townie even if you weren't mayor. You criticize me because i failed to do so. You also haven't confirmed yourself at all something that was part of your campaign promise. It strikes me as a tad bit hypocritical.
On October 29 2010 14:55 youngminii wrote: I buy fishball's story. I don't buy bum's.
This was fishy because he made no attempt to back this up. However I felt that a vote for fishball was less fishy than a last minute change from fishball to me so I made SiNiquity my #1 vote target. After SiNiquity martyred himself I switched back to youngminii, who dodged the lynch and SiNiquity died. I'll talk about the lynch dodge later.
On October 31 2010 19:50 youngminii wrote: hi
Sorry for not having been on in a while, I've been away from a computer for a bit (did not know it was going to happen). I'll skim the thread before I say anymore.
It's too hard to tell a good excuse for inactivity for a bad one. This is nonconclusive.
I will say this. Mafia's favorite thing to do is to make a player look suspicious because "he is making an excuse for being inactive" or because "oh they're inactive". So many players are usually inactive in a game mafia just has to swing the inactive bandwagon on to a blue player. In a normal set-up inactive players often have power roles and post rarely in the thread in fear that they'll somehow out themselves to the mafia. Be wary of hyperfocus on inactive players.
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
Unlynchable/Judas can just as well be a mafia role as a town role. The bold part struck me as strange because I think youngminii knows better than to use such a WIFOM argument. His second part "lynches bypass the two lives thing" is irrelevant. Obviously that is not his role since he dodged the lynch.
He paints me as relying on the metagame, which is not the case. I've referred to it and used it in my analysis, I haven't relied on it. I don't feel the metagame should be totally ignored. We as a town agreed to lynch an inactive on the first day and I felt that YM was the most suspicious amongst the inactives. It's simple.
I responded to his post and this argument didn't really go anywhere.
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.
Nevermind, you are correct. I misstated: The bodyguard prevents the Mayor from being hit, either during day or during night, and can't die except by Murrayitis or getting lynched.
Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway?
Pandain basically says here "We don't want you to roleclaim just tell us about your role and why you didn't die (aka roleclaim plz)". Youngminii doesn't fall into this potential trap and doesn't comment. Good.
On November 01 2010 04:07 youngminii wrote: Seriously Pandain? The lynch is the town's greatest weapon, you can't make scum immune to lynches without making the game horribly imbalanced.
In any case, why don't you think about it carefully before telling me to claim? If I'm invincible, no one will believe me. If I'm immune to lynches, mafia will kill me. If I'm able to manipulate something, that will make me just as suspicious as I am now.
Stop being an idiot and play the game properly. You always do this over-analytical crap which doesn't work. Go back a step and think before you post. Maybe you should start with the first post where clearly says PMs are not allowed.
His point here is good. The town has nothing to gain from youngminii roleclaiming at this point. what they do have is a potentially good role to lose.
On November 01 2010 04:17 youngminii wrote: He didn't PM me, he seems to be using "why aren't you PMing others" as an argument.
I know you didn't read the thread entirely, so I'll just tell you it's already known by know there are roles where pms are allowed. If you're invincible, town(at least me) is not going to be like "wtf". If your immune, well then actually we might let you die if it will help other roles live
So you're assuming that I can PM people and your argument is that I should be roleclaiming through PMs?
And please, tell me how letting me die is a good thing? Back up your arguments. In any case, your posts have been hugely scummy to me, but then again they always are. I've never been in a mafia game where you've given solid arguments as a townie.
YoungMinii doesn't seem to like Pandain D: (then again I guess you could say the same thing about me times a billion in this thread.)
Pandain is pretty clearly trying to backtrack his way out of the fact that he was rolefishing here. YoungMinii does a good job of explaining why he disagrees with Pandain but is being quite harsh.
I can confirm from watching his behind the scenes play in haunted mafia that youngminii is just a harsh dude, it's part of his personality. I thought he and quickstriker were gonna kill eachother in irc D:
f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?
This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away.
Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer.
Maybe.
Drawing way too heavy of a conclusion from that post already. This is a pretty early accusation of Aeres and it's interesting to note that it came before Ace essentially started the Aeres bandwagon. If the mafia wanted to kill Aeres, why would the focus on him so specifically? Why would they continue this focus after Aeres came out as not being bodyguard.
If Aeres is town, it's pretty simple. He's the easiest target to lynch because he lied and admitted it. This is before Aeres lied though.
However Aeres claims were very suspicious and youngminii's suspicions aren't poorly founded. I wasn't necessarily convinced that he was a bodyguard but I did want to believe it (as having 2 bg's would be nice D
On November 01 2010 04:28 youngminii wrote: Yeah but that's just saying "IF there's a role like the one Aeres is claiming then it would be so"
On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain.
I don't know whether Artanis would give us such a blatant lie, i.e. about the number of bodyguards. If you are, as you claim, a bodyguard, then I think that makes DCXLVI highly suspicious.
I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Why are you so sure there are 2 bodyguards? Wasn't your logic behind the 1 bodyguard theory based on the assumption that DCX is a bodyguard?
I want to ask you guys something too. Would it be a good idea to analyze the Murrayitis's mechanics and how it would affect the game in the long run? I think I find it's interesting but I'm not sure if other players agree or not.
I don't see why not.
Putting a lot of pressure on Aeres here, but it comes off as sensible to me. Aeres roleclaim was illogical and youngminii is catching him in some inconsistent claims. This is a good town post if you ask me.
On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Why would you say this if you only think there are 2 bodyguards because of dcx's 'claim'?
Good catch. Why would Aeres say this?
On November 01 2010 10:28 youngminii wrote: Okay I don't care what's going on right now since it doesn't seem to be anything of great substance.
Why is no one pointing their finger at Aeres? Did you not read the night post? A bodyguard died (Annul). Now according to LSB/Artanis, there's only one bodyguard. Maybe he's lying but if he is, we're still operating under the assumption that DCL softclaimed bodyguard.
So that makes 3 in total. Aeres's claim never made sense to me anyway, and the scumtells that he dropped (oh hey I'm assuming there's two bodyguards because of DCL's softclaim.. But what if DCL isn't a bodyguard? Who's the other one?). It almost looked as if Aeres was trying to gain our trust, make us lose trust in DCL and weed out any other bodyguards that may have tried to claim.
this is an improtant part of the post because it points out a possible mafia motivation for Aeres' actions. The people jumping on the youngminii bandwagon have tried to claim that "Aeres play makes sense as town not mafia" when it's been demonstrated a few times that's not really quite the case.
On November 01 2010 12:13 youngminii wrote: LAL
Lynch All Liarsss
On November 01 2010 12:14 youngminii wrote: Pandain, slow down. Stop posting. Stop spamming the thread with long but useless information.
DrH, stop replying to his 'arguments'. You'll just detract from other, more important issues.
On November 01 2010 12:17 youngminii wrote: Sure that's important. The arguments being put forward (mainly by Pandain) are not important. They are useless, misguided and nothing will be brought up out of them. The only thing they might be able to do is convince some people to vote for DrH without any conclusive evidence.
Focus on Aeres. In case you don't know, LAL = Lynch All Liars.
On November 01 2010 12:21 Pandain wrote: Alright, I think just a series of reasonable questions will help express my point. Actually, sometimes I can't express an argument in question form so :/
On November 01 2010 12:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Doesn't really mean anything. If the insanity thing was such a big deal people could have switched bandwagons. The problem is the insanity thing applies to everyone and it isn't a point against me, it's just a part of this game that must be considered. 1.There were only two hours left 2. A major factor is that no one can even say if you actually used your role. The person who you claimed to have poked says he received no such thing. Now you defend yourself by saying you could've been roleblocked, or he could've been bussed. The first point is okay, but negated for reasons later expressed below. The second point is just illogical. It is more logical to assume you are mafia than that jcarl just happened to get bussed.
Everything adds up Pandain.
How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect? Well we could start with the intial concern from infinitestory that my poke transfers murrayitis to a person. Perhaps the poke doesn't confirm itself to the other player but does tell me if they have murrayitis. Perhaps my poke only has a certain chance of going through. There are many possibilities here Pandain, am I really supposed to believe you couldn't think of 1?
Point is it didn't even happen Yeah, it is. That is the importance of my role as I understand it and as it is described in my role PM. What else do I have to go off of? Would you like me to tell you the importance of my role in an insane variation which I have no way of predicting or knowing?
Exactly! So why are you running if your role has a high chance of being unimportant. You claim its to soak up POTENTIAL roleblockers, but any townie could run and do just that. You're attacking me for defending him. Let me call it a chainsaw defense, which is even worse. What theory doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that jcarls could have lied? You're not even considering that? In order to bring up the possibility that he might not be telling the truth I have to also accuse him of being mafia? Wow dude I never thought you would make such awful points. Yes, it doesn't make sense for jcarl to lie. You yourself think he hasn't, and yet you critizice me for defending just that. I have considered it, but consider it highly more likely you are just scum.
My poke didn't go through to him and you all want to know why. So I'm telling you all the ways this could be possible and jcarls telling a lie is one of these things. It's a possibility among many that I have offered and it is the one I am pursuing the least and even calling the least likely. Just drop it. I never accused jcarls and your clown-ass arguments aren't coming anywhere close to making it look like I did.' Why did you lie to us if you knew this could happen. Why did you continue to claim you could be 100% confirmed Why would wasting a potential roleblocker's use on one night outweigh having an unconfirmed mayor who's lied.
I didn't lie to get elected. I had no reason to distrust the mods and never truly considered the possibility that my role was insane when I was talking about 100% confirmation. I intentionally withheld information because I didn't want the mafia to consider the possiblity that I would be soaking up roleblocks they might have. This is a "lie" designed to benefit town.
You start with "I didn't lie to get elected" and end with "this is a lie designed to benefit town." You claimed you would be 100% confirmed, now you claim you knew this would not happen. I did ditch the 100% thing. I consistently recognized the possibility that I would be insane and offered checks against it to the town. see the quote
STOP
He is very insistent on ending the argument I'm having with Pandain. Now I agree Pandain's arguments were illogical and dumb, but his intense focus on the Aeres bandwagon is something people brought up as suspicious.
Why is it suspicious?
Mafia don't focus down on a target like that unless they REALLY want them dead, especially this early in the game when their voting power isn't that strong. Mafia change their targets to what they think is the easiest, what's gonna bring the least criticism on them, what arguments does the town want to hear?
A townie has every reason to focus down on the player they most suspect, since it is essential that scumlynches occur. Anything else could very well be mafia noise and distraction. Attempts to discredit focus don't cut it for me.
On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote: His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases) Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it.
This is a good post. Pandain never responded though of course.
On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote: His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases) Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to simply ignore the alignment of our mayor. I am in no way convinced he is a townie, even if you are. Knowing our mayor has an extra vote still, even if he doesn't have night protection anymore, he is still a power player that deserves additional attention.
That's not the point. There's no way of finding out whether or not our Mayor is a blue or a red as of now. The arguments that Pandain is putting up are ridiculous and stretched way too far, if you honestly keep up with your persistent following of this idiocy (I'm talking about his arguments, not Pandain himself) then I'm going to have to label you as scum following a blind argument aimed at taking down a blue mayor.
Defending me. While I'm glad somebody agrees Pandains arguments were dumb mafia would have a good motivation to attach themselves to me and make it appear as though they are on my side. If they die and flip red the mafia can easily use that to get me lynched. That's why I don't like speculating too much about factions, it can really go either way.
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity. Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.
On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And again
Again I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again. Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.
Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you
cute addition ;o you're so snarky
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth? I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not. how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
Just stop replying to him, no one except infinitestory (and his scum buddies if he's scum) will listen to him. You'll drag it on too.
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity. Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.
On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And again
Again I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again. Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.
Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you
cute addition ;o you're so snarky
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth? I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not. how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
Just stop replying to him, no one except infinitestory (and his scum buddies if he's scum) will listen to him. You'll drag it on too.
Why? The more desperate he gets the better everyone can see how scummy he's playing.
And how easy it would be for the mafia to turn it against me if I just say nothing at all. Regardless I feel like this a lot of noise designed to distract from the Aeres situation.
Would be nice and all if Pandain didn't play like this all the time.
I'm still waiting for a counter argument for/from Aeres, until then my vote will stand.
@inifinitestory: So we elected DrH because we thought he'd be able to confirm. Now there may be a way for a red to take away that ability to confirm OR they may be the possibility that DrH is red. So you want to spam up the thread and kill him based on that? At most, I see this as a 50/50 chance, mathematically speaking. I see Aeres as a much better investment.
P.S. I'm ignoring you Pandain, I don't feel the need to respond to your argument and spam the thread even more.
On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote: You don't fake a roleclaim to confuse mafia. You will only end up confusing town, especially if you do it early in the game. Everyone knows this.
Even if there was the small chance that he's telling the truth, he deserves to be killed because of the simple fact that he lied and confused town. His lie and DrH's 'lie' are completely different things. This type of play is discouraged and he should be killed off for it, Bill Murray used to do it a lot to the great dismay of everyone.
LAL
This is the truth, really. It causes way more harm to the town than it does to the mafia.
This I disagree with. If we knew somehow that Aeres was 100% town it would be dumb to lynch him especially when the role "Cruiseship Captain" that he claimed could be valuable.
On November 01 2010 13:06 Misder wrote: I'm going to bring this up again, why do you think mafia chose to kill annul? Do you think they found about him being the bodygaurd? Cause I don't see another reason why mafia would kill him. He didn't make any amazingly good post that would screw mafia over did he?
The only real reason I can think of is he played extremely well in Haunted Mafia (carried us to victory). Maybe they saw him as a threat.
On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote: Still that is the best way for him to use his role if he is telling the truth now, I just am not sure where to criticize his confession. LAL or believe that it was an honest mistake? Kind of a dumb play for scum so I am inclined to believe him.
I've been thinking about this for a while now.
Mafia use a chatroom or something similar as an efficient tool for chatting. Often times the mods of the game join the chatroom to oversee what's happening. So at the point where Aeres had already roleclaimed the second bodyguard (after Annul) a lot of people were asking Artanis whether or not he made lies up. Artanis replied that he would not give an outright lie. This would tell us there is only one bodyguard (unless I'm missing something) which essentially outs Aeres as a liar. So I'm thinking Artanis probably gave Aeres a heads up that he was going to say what he said about the lies beforehand so that Aeres could get a chance to redeem himself a little bit by admitting his lie. ie. he was backed into a corner with no more options.
On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote: So the potential doctor is risking saving a "confirmed" blue vs losing himself as well. Unless someone provides me with an good enough reason I will not fully roleclaim
You're going to die anyway. Unless the mafia are allowed to move the hit?
On November 01 2010 13:16 Nemesis wrote: I don't know why there are a good amount of people lynching Aeres. Aeres basically roleclaimed to take a hit incase DC was actually bodyguard. And if he isn't lying about his role, that is basically the best thing he can do with it.
Also, what benefit could roleclaiming as bodyguard give mafia really?
Trust? Too much relaxation? As scum they could put us into a state of 'oh hey the Mayor has a bodyguard, he won't die, we don't need a doctor to protect him' if we think he's still got an active bodyguard.
I mean, who the hell would actually go to the trouble of making an entire 'Cruiseship Captain' role by themself? Looks like it was looked over and peer reviewed by an entire team of people imo.
Okay, since it seems that the Doc's position as Mayor is in jeopardy, I'm going to put some interesting info out there.
On October 31 2010 10:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Further news I forgot to put in the night post: Due to budget cuts, we have only managed to purchase one bodyguard for the Mayor.
Artanis lied.
There are two Bodyguards, not one. I don't know who the first one is (I suspect it's DC), but I am the second one.
I was going to play dumb about my role of Bodyguard until DC screwed up. I dunno if he really is the other Bodyguard, but if he is, I feel like if he was killed, then the Mafia, upon learning that there is a second Bodyguard (due to a failed hit on Mayor), would start hitting the most outspoken townspeople in lieu of the Mayor. Since I am in fact one of the more outspoken people in this topic, I was at risk of being "tapped", so to speak.
I would also like to note that my normal role greatly assists my ability to act as a Bodyguard. Since Bodyguards block hits on the Mayor, killing them makes the Mayor vulnerable. My role is designed to increase my longevity as long as possible.
My role is called the "Cruiseship Captain". I am eligible to PM a mod in order to set sail for the ocean and leave town for the night, thus becoming immune to any and all night actions (positive and negative alike, including roleblocks and DT checks). I am not permitted to set sail on consecutive nights.
Because of this mechanic, I can survive on my own for a short while. Having a Medic tend to me will not be necessary for the first few nights. Once my role has been exhausted of uses (I do not know how many times I can set sail in this game, only that it is more than once), Medics are more than welcome to assist me.
Also, please keep in mind that my role has an additional function that I am not presently willing to reveal.
Yeah, this is all great, Aeres, but now you sound mighty suspicious to me!
Well, yes, I cannot deny that I seem fishy (pardon the pun, I am a Cruiseship Captain, after all). I also imagine it does not help my case that setting sail makes me immune to DT checks. I assure you all, however, that I am working in the interests of the town. Believe me, I'd rather not cause suspicion when it isn't warranted, but DC's possibly slip-up forced my hand.
Now i'm not sure. The cruiseship captain seems like it could be a legit role. This is really not useful speculation since we don't know what Artanis is thinking.
On November 01 2010 13:47 youngminii wrote: You should see Pandain's style of play in other games. In almost every game as town he would pull this type of shit and get killed and flip town and cause mass confusion.
@jcarl: I understand what you mean by the town being very secure about me but there's not much they can do. As far as they can tell, I might be invincible and trying to kill me will do nothing. In any case, there's not really anything toooooo scummy about my (perceived) role imo.
True. Pandain is a pretty scummy town player.
On November 01 2010 14:05 youngminii wrote: Well then we should kill Aeres and find out, no? ^_^
Kills for information, not a strategy I like. I suppose there is no better alternative, we have to lynch somebody and ym/ace made a good case for Aeres.
On November 01 2010 14:50 youngminii wrote: I cannot think of these situations you refer to but I'm about a hundred percent sure that a softclaim that was vague at best (which turned out to not be a claim) at basically the beginning of the game does not warrant a roleclaim that not only claims the bodyguard role but an extra Cruiseship Captain role.
Oh, let's not forget the fact that he said that the mods lied about the number of bodyguard roles too.
Good point here.
On November 01 2010 15:08 youngminii wrote: Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone.
This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones.
On November 01 2010 15:18 youngminii wrote: Oh right. There were quite a few. Even I thought the mods were lying because they never said anything about it.
On November 01 2010 22:24 NB wrote: very interesting that the elder vote has been used again? Could it be that there is some insight that our DTs has connection with the elder and the vote is 100% correct? :D
Interesting theory. We should keep this in mind, perhaps?
On November 01 2010 22:43 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm not going to quote YM directly since he seems to be active (wow..).
Why you so active? Day 1 you were hiding in the back not making many waves. Now you want to go after someone who has probably made a "newbie" mistake as though he's just stolen all of the cookies from the cookie jar.
Look at your arguments, and look at other arguments. You're really gunning for someone who we don't really know enough about. And you're kinda throwing random discussion out. Sad to say this is typical of your "pro-town" play. It's also worth noting that we know you're not "just a townie" since you would usually play quiet until you're lynched, making yourself completely useless. How useful your being should determine your alignment...
I apologise, I can try be more inactive just for you. What a great argument you have there. I've already said I was afk for basically all of day 1, are you seriously saying you can't see that?
Probably made a 'newbie' mistake? It's a pretty huge mistake/scumtell if you looked at it carefully, I don't see why you're letting the cookie thief get away without even a slap on the wrist.
I look at my arguments and then I look at the argument I threw out. Pandain and DrH going at it about how DrH has no way of proving he's innocent. Is this argument constructive? No, it will bring nothing new to the table. No analysis, except maybe Pandain's overeagerness of going for DrH. My arguments are designed to punish the liar, the person who got caught red handed in his 'one man hero attempt to save the bodyguard'. I'm still waiting for the counterargument and it's not coming. So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and gun him.
I wasn't aware I had a style of being quiet until I'm lynched if I was just a townie. If you could direct me to a game where I did this, please do. Ditto for my typical 'pro-town' play. Oh yeah, how is it worth nothing I'm not 'just a townie'? You realise there are no 'just a townies' in this game, right? Or are you that inactive?
I'd appreciate it if you stopped pulling idiotic arguments out. Thank you very much,
I'm not sure Amber read the thread all the way through. He didn't catch my roleclaim and a few other bits of key information so I'm just gonna disregard the first part here.
Amber's entire argument here is pretty much meta. Youngminii makes the case for his lynch of Aeres. This is a good post by YM imo.
On November 01 2010 23:44 Aeres wrote: ##Vote Aeres
There's no redemption for me now. I made a bad move as an inexperienced player, and the town suffered because of it. I'm too much of a liability to keep alive, so I am voting for myself to smooth things out when I'm lynched.
Again, I apologize for making such an audacious play. I clearly should have considered the ramifications of my actions better, and because I was hasty, the town is no better off than before. At best, I learned what not to do in a Mafia game.
I don't expect to survive the day, so I'm taking the chance now to say good luck. I let you guys down, but I'm still rooting for you.
I don't even... What?
I've said time and time again I'm waiting for you to argue. I'm not 100% certain you're scum, I don't think anyone is, and you have this time to point out why we shouldn't lynch you. It is never, ever good town play to lynch yourself unless there's a special scenario/mechanic that directly helps town to do it.
Another good point by youngminii. IMO this shows that he isn't a mafia hellbent on lynching Aeres (could be a mafia trying to do something else) but is merely interested in lynching whoever the best target is at the time.
If he was mafia wanting a bandwagon on Aeres, there is no reason to make a post cautioning the town that he might be a VI.
On November 01 2010 22:43 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm not going to quote YM directly since he seems to be active (wow..).
Why you so active? Day 1 you were hiding in the back not making many waves. Now you want to go after someone who has probably made a "newbie" mistake as though he's just stolen all of the cookies from the cookie jar.
Look at your arguments, and look at other arguments. You're really gunning for someone who we don't really know enough about. And you're kinda throwing random discussion out. Sad to say this is typical of your "pro-town" play. It's also worth noting that we know you're not "just a townie" since you would usually play quiet until you're lynched, making yourself completely useless. How useful your being should determine your alignment...
I apologise, I can try be more inactive just for you. What a great argument you have there. I've already said I was afk for basically all of day 1, are you seriously saying you can't see that?
Probably made a 'newbie' mistake? It's a pretty huge mistake/scumtell if you looked at it carefully, I don't see why you're letting the cookie thief get away without even a slap on the wrist.
I look at my arguments and then I look at the argument I threw out. Pandain and DrH going at it about how DrH has no way of proving he's innocent. Is this argument constructive? No, it will bring nothing new to the table. No analysis, except maybe Pandain's overeagerness of going for DrH. My arguments are designed to punish the liar, the person who got caught red handed in his 'one man hero attempt to save the bodyguard'. I'm still waiting for the counterargument and it's not coming. So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and gun him.
I wasn't aware I had a style of being quiet until I'm lynched if I was just a townie. If you could direct me to a game where I did this, please do. Ditto for my typical 'pro-town' play. Oh yeah, how is it worth nothing I'm not 'just a townie'? You realise there are no 'just a townies' in this game, right? Or are you that inactive?
I'd appreciate it if you stopped pulling idiotic arguments out. Thank you very much,
Well without putting much effort into outting you since you don't know yourself well enough, this was (what looks like) your end-post for Flamewheels game:
On August 15 2010 23:09 youngminii wrote: I'm a bit sick of this game. I don't think I like playing town roles that much, I'm just not motivated to play, sorry about the afkness. I'm still trying to keep up with what's happening though.
From what I can tell: Misder = mafia (confirmed) foolishness = mafia (in my eyes)
Very apathetic. Not very engaging. Not really pushing with "evidence." You had this epiphany where you're going to use reason in your posts? I find it highly suspicious.
I was scum. Nice try though. Thanks for the 4000th
amber made a dumb mistake here : /
maybe i should read through ambers posts
Well that's the end of YM's posts.
I think youngminii is a pro-town player. Amber's attempts to metagame and make youngminii look mafia for it were pathetic and fell flat on their face. He has shown that he is willing to consider a better target than Aeres should it arise, and his arguments against Aeres in the first place are mostly good ones. Aside from that he's contributed other useful posts throughout the thread.
Now I'll talk about the lynch dodge. I know of three roles that can dodge lynches: unlynchable (either mafia or town) saulus (mafia) judas (town)
The unlynchable does not get lynched the first time he is lynched. The second time it will work.
The saulus is a mafia player that when lynched the first time becomes town. I consider this an OP role because the saulus can then release the mafia list, unless the saulus is a player intentionally kept in the dark about who else is mafia.
the judas is a town player that when lynched the first time becomes mafia. Opposite of Saulus. My main concern for youngminii is that this is his role.
It is also possible that a bus type of role acted on youngminii/SiN or that a pardoner type role was somehow involved. Ultimately speculation is nonconclusive and i'd be highly suspicious of further attempts to force youngminii to roleclaim.
I'd like to ask Pandain a question. You said you would/could confirm yourself as townie even if you weren't mayor. You criticize me because i failed to do so. You also haven't confirmed yourself at all something that was part of your campaign promise. It strikes me as a tad bit hypocritical.
Remember it's indirect, there's no real way to confirm my role. But come by day 2,3, I'll probably have enough to basically be confirmed.
Interesting post btw, I'll definitely consider it in my analysis.
Yes i remember. Alright, as long as you haven't tossed this point aside, I'm ok with that.
On November 02 2010 08:27 infinitestory wrote: 1) There may not be a godfather. That's true. But it's better IMO to operate under the assumption that there is, rather than the assumption that there isn't. If there is a godfather, and we assume there isn't, that can be devastating. If there isn't a godfather, and we assume there is, then the harm is less.
It's better to operate under no assumption at all, in my opinion.
2) We're not assuming M-Rus is a mafia ability. M-RUS IS A MAFIA ABILITY.
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mayor Artanis of Insania was quickly overwhelmed by the effects of Murrayitis. It quickly became clear that the Mafia had somehow harnessed the power of Murrayitis and planned to use it against the town.
3) I find it ever so slightly contradictory that you campaigned based on "I can confirm 100% my role, but none of the other candidates can confirm 100% that they're blue." But now, once you're elected mayor, you're pushing the idea that all of the main candidates are blue, without even a single confirmation. If you trust that there are no reds amongst the main mayor candidates, you should trust Pandain too, right?
I never said I don't trust there are no mafia candidates. I just wanted to say there is no reason we should assume there is. I don't think all the main candidates are blue at all. You'll note I did not say "mafia probably didn't run for mayor" just that "it could make a lot of sense if they didn't."
I'm not pushing the idea. I'm bringing it up as a possibility because I don't want the mafia to push the assumption and suspicion constantly onto main mayor candidates when it's quite possible none of them are mafia.
I also find it a bit odd you made it a point here to put a soft defense on Pandain. You're a good reader InfiniteStory, why are you telling me I'm making arguments/statements that I'm not making at all?
Good catch on number 2. I retract that statement. Good reading.
If you feel I'm intentionally withholding information, feel free to call me on it.
Nothing stands out. Talks about the election and he doesn't really make any points of his own. Nothing strikes me as being very town or very mafia.
On October 30 2010 08:31 Aeres wrote: How many Bodyguards are assigned to a Mayor upon election, and through what method?
Interest in the role of bodyguard before the election is over. Just something to note, since if you are of the opinion that Aeres is mafia this means he could be planning his roleclaim already.
DocH Anyone that doesn't fucking vote for you must be scum? Are you fucking serious ?
i voted for Pandain because it was a choice between Him And Fishball at the time (bum withdrew his candidacy before i voted or I would have voted him for my placeholder instead of pandain) I posted many reasons why i chose pandain over fishball MANY Logical reasons. i will repost them for you ****This was before you had decided to run for mayor
On October 30 2010 00:07 Coagulation wrote: How about instead of blowing up about imaginary references to your CIRCLE in my post you answer the question that you completely avoided.
why would we want to risk a chance of 7 people possibly being scum manipulating town with mayor when we can go with the much safer odds of only 1 person possibly being scum.
I'm at work. I answer what I can given the time that I have, but I have always come back and address the rest. This is not dodging. People who have played with me in previous games will know.
I think you meant 6 people, as I said there are only 6 people in this group. Now why would Mafia include 6 of their 9 buddies in this circle? Why 6? Not 3, not 4, but 6? Assume what you say is true, all 6 of us are Mafia, how exactly would we "manipulate" town? What stops the other solo Mayor and his "non-circle" buddies to manipulate town? Different scenario, but the outcome can very well be the same.
Everyone can debate about the "truth", but no one can argue about that fact that I did offer information, and I want/need protection. With me being Mayor, doesn't make me a dictator. I still need the help of the town to provide valuable input.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Is that not a reasonable reason considering the two choices?? maybe not the greatest reason but I FEEL CONFIDENT we are not getting FUCKED BEHIND OUR BACKS.
On October 30 2010 00:26 Coagulation wrote: We need someone who is good at mafia but terrible at manipulation.
pandain is probably the best candidate under these parameters. he is an extremely organized and tactical scum hunter his analyses skills are good and he has a good level head about what needs to be done.
i have also noticed that he is a terrible lier and his posting style makes his motives extremely transparent. this would make it much easier for us to spot a slip up if he is mafia. and greatly increases the chances that he would fail at getting away with scum moves if it turns out he is a red.
Is that not a reasonable reason?? YOU SAID THE SAME THING EARLIER.
Now i am sticking with pandain because he is most likely not a red trying to gain control of town based on the fact that he is not campaigning relentlessly.
Pandain is more then capable of using what tools he has at his disposal to help coordinate a good town strategy and i doubt he would run for mayor if he thought his role wasnt capable of contributing greatly as mayor.. and I FEEL HE is the most TRUSTWORTHY candidate so far BASED ON HIS ACTIONS IN THIS GAME. I Dont get the same feeling from you when your Threatening "FOS" On anyone that doesnt vote you..
IM NOT VOTING on WHOS PROMISING SOME BULLSHIT IF THEY GET MAYOR (town circle?? where??) IM VOTING ON WHO I TRUST THE MOST IN MY GUT
IS THAT REASON ENOUGH?
Calm down, man. Tensions are expected to run high in a game based on lies and deception, but you don't need to blow your stack like that. People take you more seriously if you post with a more even-tempered tone.
agreed coag u need to chill brah
On October 31 2010 00:39 Aeres wrote: Wow, quite a bit of discussion happened while I was in dreamland.
Despite all of the suspicion that's fallen around the Doc, my vote remains with him. I'm also feeling really shitty today, so I'm not really in the mood to do a lot of quote analysis and C/P'ing, but he makes a good case for himself and offers a practical solution that addresses the possibilities of him either being Mafia or spreading Murrayitis with the stick.
I personally don't think that Orgolove, one of the Doc's primary opponents, argues his point sufficiently for me to change my vote. I do not feel this because of past actions in Haunted Mafia, so I have no bias in that regard. I am speaking strictly in terms of the events that have transpired in this game, and those actions seem to me like Orgolove relies on word-twisting and subtle attacks to discredit people. There's nothing wrong with that methodology in a game like Mafia; in fact, I would encourage that playstyle. However, I feel that he's a bit too hostile and not convincing enough for my vote to be swayed.
Note to Orgolove: In no way do I mean to come across as antagonistic toward you. I simply don't agree with your method of debate thus far; I hope you understand this. =)
Oh, and by the way, at the very beginning of this game, where you said you were gonna run for Mayor and use a spreadsheet, you'll recall that I said that spreadsheet was a reason I wouldn't vote for you because of complications last game. You seem to feel that it was because the data on it pinned me as Mafia. I'd just like to point out that that isn't why I'm against the spreadsheet. (In fact, I don't think it ever did put any solid evidence on me as Mafia... if anything, I myself inadvertently planted the seeds of my demise by correcting your profile description of me, saying it was Joe Pesci, a movie actor in MAFIA films *cough cough*. Stupid move by me, to be honest.)
No, it was because that spreadsheet, despite your best efforts, was riddled with errors and misinformation, which skewed the discussion of clues in the thread. I say this because I want to drive the point home that I disagree with your methodology in terms of this game only; I don't have any weird vendetta against you. =)
I'll probably talk more if/when I feel better today. I'm still reading the topic and what transpires here, though, so I definitely won't be out of the loop.
decent post explaining his reasoning but doesn't really say too much in terms of original points
your posting is funny and cute but honestly at this point you are shitting up the thread. I'm requesting that you please stop, no one wants to wade through a bunch of your spam and god forbid someone take your current nonsense seriously.
I don't think that's fair to accuse Glasse of shitting up the thread when I've done more of it than he has. If anything, blame me. = /
On October 31 2010 05:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: One thing I want to point out:
On October 31 2010 05:01 Kenpachi wrote: ##Elect DoctorHelvetica
From voting thread. Kenpachi has not posted once since the game started. Let's keep a closer eye on lurkers than we did in Haunted.
I started a list of lurkers but it's as home, if a list isn't posted by 8 or so tonigh when I get home I'll post mine.
Another quick reason why to vote for doc, he's already stated his day one lynch would be youngminii who so far has been the scummiest player.
I no longer feel youngminii is the scummiest.
In fact I would like to hear from every townie who their #1 suspect is of scum, if they have one at all. I would like to hear other peoples opinions. There has been a lot of campaign shitflinging and very little scumhunting of any sort. I don't think the mafia feel very pressured right now.
If I had to go with my gut instinct, I'd say either NB or ghrur. I have nothing concrete on either of them, but they feel somehow... strange. Not fishy, that's too cliché... merely strange.
Aeres is right, he hella spammed. I don't really like his meek/submissive tone it implies a little bit of implicit guilt.
Here comes the big one, I'm gonna deconstruct this post in red.
On November 01 2010 04:12 Aeres wrote: Okay, since it seems that the Doc's position as Mayor is in jeopardy, I'm going to put some interesting info out there.
On October 31 2010 10:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Further news I forgot to put in the night post: Due to budget cuts, we have only managed to purchase one bodyguard for the Mayor.
Artanis lied. big assumption there
There are two Bodyguards, not one. I don't know who the first one is (I suspect it's DC), but I am the second one.
we know this is a lie.
I was going to play dumb about my role of Bodyguard until DC screwed up. I dunno if he really is the other Bodyguard, but if he is, I feel like if he was killed, then the Mafia, upon learning that there is a second Bodyguard (due to a failed hit on Mayor), would start hitting the most outspoken townspeople in lieu of the Mayor. Since I am in fact one of the more outspoken people in this topic, I was at risk of being "tapped", so to speak.
He talks about his past behavior/thoughts concerning the role of bodyguard which seems strange for a protown liar. He showed some express interest in the workings of the bodyguard role. It seems like he wanted to understand the role a lot better before he faked his roleclaim, a mafia would want to cover all the bases and would probably work harder at it IMO.
I would also like to note that my normal role greatly assists my ability to act as a Bodyguard. Since Bodyguards block hits on the Mayor, killing them makes the Mayor vulnerable. My role is designed to increase my longevity as long as possible.
It's odd that you're talking about how your role assists you in being bodyguard because it serves the exact opposite purpose you CLAIMED you were trying to achieve with your fake roleclaim.
My role is called the "Cruiseship Captain". I am eligible to PM a mod in order to set sail for the ocean and leave town for the night, thus becoming immune to any and all night actions (positive and negative alike, including roleblocks and DT checks). I am not permitted to set sail on consecutive nights.
Because of this mechanic, I can survive on my own for a short while. Having a Medic tend to me will not be necessary for the first few nights. Once my role has been exhausted of uses (I do not know how many times I can set sail in this game, only that it is more than once), Medics are more than welcome to assist me.
Later you say you're trying to draw hits to yourself, because you can protect yourself. However, by saying this the mafia is less likely to hit you than any other bodyguard (you claim DC is one of them and funnily enough it turns out that it seems he's going to die). Why are the mafia going to waste their hits on a bodyguard claiming "you can't hit me?" you're not trying to soak up shit.
Also, please keep in mind that my role has an additional function that I am not presently willing to reveal.
I think at this point maybe you should if we are to believe you. It's do or die.
Yeah, this is all great, Aeres, but now you sound mighty suspicious to me!
Well, yes, I cannot deny that I seem fishy (pardon the pun, I am a Cruiseship Captain, after all). I also imagine it does not help my case that setting sail makes me immune to DT checks. I assure you all, however, that I am working in the interests of the town. Believe me, I'd rather not cause suspicion when it isn't warranted, but DC's possibly slip-up forced my hand.
Oddly enough you didn't seem to consider the fact that you were the only bodyguard and that DC was lying. You immediately went to "artanis is lying and there are 2 bodyguards." There is no reason for a bodyguard to claim for pro-town reasons. Later it turns out that DC didn't claim bodyguard, is going to die, and the real bodyguard died. Whoops.
On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain.
Talking about how he can protect me when it's clear that his claim isn't designed to draw hits and that he has no real way of protecting me at all.
On November 01 2010 03:00 bumatlarge wrote: It seems a fairly nifty scum tactic to come out and ask for medic protection fyi. With one medic dead, and another claimed(?), I think it's safe to say we can't cover everyone we want to. Stop coming out with something and expecting to be protected. Your killing us.
Congrats on the Queen, Bum! Liked the Lurker better, but meh.
As for your point, I agree for the most part. However, I would argue that it might be advantageous to roleclaim if your role allows something similar to what youngminii did to avoid the lynch. There might be strategic value in roleclaiming some other powerful role to waste a KP or lynch. I'm not sure what the balance is between offensive, defensive, and investigative roles might be, though, so it's possible that only a few people fit this bill. A fair bit of WIFOM comes into play here, but it might pan out.
On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain.
I don't know whether Artanis would give us such a blatant lie, i.e. about the number of bodyguards. If you are, as you claim, a bodyguard, then I think that makes DCXLVI highly suspicious.
As has been stated before (and most likely again later), this is INSANE Mafia. We have no idea what Artanis and LSB are capable of throwing at us.
I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Aeres is really pushing the mistrust of Artanis/LSB when he knows they didn't lie because he is the liar. Hmm.
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: BrownBear was minding his own business, he didn’t do anything wrong! He had all the tools he needed to mess up the elections, but as they say. It never pays to be good. BrownBear died for being good. Kids, honesty never pays off.
Now THIS has got me very suspicious of the Doctor. What I'm getting from this is that BrownBear tried to manipulate the election results so that the Doc wouldn't win, but he failed, and the Mafia killed him.
This makes it seem like the Doc is scum. I mean, it's a good thing for a Mayor to be town, so if BrownBear was killed for doing good, does that mean his efforts to get the town control from Mafia failed because the Doc or another Mafioso caught wind of what was happening?
He was my most enthusiastic defender earlier in the thread. This seems pretty far-fetched to me but of course I'm biased.
On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote: Alright, it's confession time.
I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard.
When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good.
When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried.
I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark.
I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town.
(I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....)
He says he had a plan but he doesn't tell us what it was. You've been caught, why would you not tell us?
On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct?
In essence, yes.
I guess what his plan might have been and he agrees but in retrospect it's weird he didn't just say so in the first place. especially since after I went over his original post claiming bodyguard it's very clear that his claim was not designed to do this at all.
On November 01 2010 11:48 Ace wrote: So Aeres admits he lies AFTER I point out that in 3 different scenarios there's no way he could have been telling the truth. This is past policy lynching now, because if DC never said he didn't claim how are we sure Aeres would have "come clean"? He only admitted to the lie after both of us pretty showed he had to be bullshitting.
I was AFK, writing a paper for school. As soon as I was finished, I wrote the confession post.
On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct?
In essence, yes.
That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did.
Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia.
However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard.
By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you.
Understandable. I'm still new to Mafia, and I still have a lot of learning to do concerning the nuances of the game. I tried something, it didn't work, and I'm taking heat for it. I had a feeling this would happen, but I don't particularly regret it, as I wanted to experiment, as I said before.
baww i'm new i wanted to experiment it was just a risky plan. you are posting with a lot of guilty rhetoric. If it was truly a failed pro town gambit, there is no real reason to act this way about it imo
On November 01 2010 11:57 bumatlarge wrote: Well, Aeres, now no one feels comfortable leaving you alive. And I'd imagine no one would have felt comfortable leaving you alive if your plan worked.
The only thing holding me back is how very thin a ruse this would be as mafia. What would it even do...
Meh, there's not much I can do to defend myself now. I'll leave it up to you guys, although at this point, I agree it's a liability to keep me alive.
On November 01 2010 23:44 Aeres wrote: ##Vote Aeres
There's no redemption for me now. I made a bad move as an inexperienced player, and the town suffered because of it. I'm too much of a liability to keep alive, so I am voting for myself to smooth things out when I'm lynched.
Again, I apologize for making such an audacious play. I clearly should have considered the ramifications of my actions better, and because I was hasty, the town is no better off than before. At best, I learned what not to do in a Mafia game.
I don't expect to survive the day, so I'm taking the chance now to say good luck. I let you guys down, but I'm still rooting for you.
I don't even... What?
I've said time and time again I'm waiting for you to argue. I'm not 100% certain you're scum, I don't think anyone is, and you have this time to point out why we shouldn't lynch you. It is never, ever good town play to lynch yourself unless there's a special scenario/mechanic that directly helps town to do it.
Hold on, let's consider something for a second. Why would aeres do this? It doesn't really make sense to concede so easily. Dr.H has said he thinks Glasse could be Village Idiot, and is trying to get lynched. What if Aeres has a role like this? He knew he would be caught in the lie, and wants to get lynched. What happens when the village idiot does get lynched? And an even more important question: what implications could this have if this is a mafia role?
It's not a matter of conceding easily. I simply have no defense for myself. I lied to try and protect the Doc, I failed, and I fucked up the game. If I saw a way out of the mess I put myself in, I'd pursue it, but I just cannot see how I would be able to, especially since I've essentially lost any semblance of trustworthiness.
As for the Village Idiot idea, don't you think it's odd for a VI to have a role that encourages survival? Why would that happen? And why would a VI be allowed to vote for himself? That seems like an overpowered role to me.
Doesn't really seem to understand VI and I doubt Aeres is the VI anyway.
I'm more convinced than ever that Aeres might be scum and considering my reanalysis of youngminii's post it seems that mafia are trying to push the bandwagon off of aeres and onto YM.
On November 02 2010 06:17 bumatlarge wrote: I'm going to make a brief player summary list. Nothing fancy, please quote to add FACTS not opinions. I'm doing this from memory just to help myself remember exactly what concrete things have happened.
1. DoctorHelvetica - Mayor. Claims role checks for virus, used on jcarl night1, no results. 2. Hyperbola - 3. Bumatlarge - Claims he can add a person to be a personal mason each day. Ran for mayor 4. Veldril 5. Pandain - Ran for mayor. At odds with Dr. H? 6. Aeres - Claimed BG and captain role that lets hi leave at night with restrictions. Says the BG claim was a lie. 7. deconduo 8. Coagulation 9. annul Bullet Bill / Bodyguard - Mayor candidate, real BG, if there is only 1. 10. infundibulum 11. Amber[LighT] 12. Kenpachi 13. lol1221 RebirthOfLegend 14. Nemesis 15. ghrur 16. KtheZ 17. QuickStriker Angsty Pardoner - Result of +1 kp of mafia? (node oracle) 18. CubEdIn 19. Meapak_Ziphh 20. SiNiquity Self-Conscious Vigilante 21. DCLXVI 22. Divinek 23. Lexpar 24. ShmotZ Mafia Do-Gooder - never used vote, part of fishball circle 25. Orgolove ADD Doctor - modkilled, fishball circle 26. Node - Claims oracle, can see where +1 mafia kp will strike 27. youngminii 28. jcarlsoniv - claims he was never poked by Dr. H 29. BrownBear Vote Rigger 30. Infinitestory 31. Masq L 32. NB 33. Meeple Glasse 34. Misder 35. kingjames01 Self-Conscious Lazy Vigilante 36. Ace 37. Fishball - Is in confirmed (orgolove) circle of 6. Only 3 remain. Claims he can determine alignment of his circle. 38. kitaman27 39. LunarDestiny
24 of 30 Town-aligned roles remaining 8 of 9 Mafia-aligned roles remaining
1 BG Murraytis spreads to visitors and visitees. 3 People infected. Radio Loony lets a message be sent by some player.
So lazy that I use this chart as reference...
According to the chart, ShmotZ and Orgolove are part of Fishball's circle. But according to the role pm given after their death, there is no mentioning for any circle whatsoever.
Orgolove the ADD Doctor is now dead.
You are the ADD Doctor! Once per night, you may PM me the person you want to save that night. However, if the person doesn't get hit at night, you get an ADD attack and have a 10% chance of killing him yourself, so be careful! You are not allowed to protect yourself, as you are paranoid that you might kill yourself. Furthermore, given the recent spreading of Murrayitis, you have trained yourself in being able to cure a person from this plague.
ShmotZ the Mafia Do-Gooder has been modkilled.
You are the Mafia Do-gooder! You never really wanted to be part of the mafia, but your dad just happened to be Al Capone so you were forced into it. Every day, you get an additional vote every day, but have to use it to vote on one of the mafia. If you are the only mafia left, you are relieved of this.
Once again, I repeat, QS was in the circle too. 6 total - 3 dead = 3 remaining, ok ?
Speaking of which, the 3rd member still have not replied to my PM regarding a request for a role claim. He just flat out did not reply to me.
Considering the mafia likely know everyone who is in the circle, I think you should tell everybody as a town. It's just more information that we don't have that the mafia does.
On November 02 2010 06:17 bumatlarge wrote: I'm going to make a brief player summary list. Nothing fancy, please quote to add FACTS not opinions. I'm doing this from memory just to help myself remember exactly what concrete things have happened.
1. DoctorHelvetica - Mayor. Claims role checks for virus, used on jcarl night1, no results. 2. Hyperbola - 3. Bumatlarge - Claims he can add a person to be a personal mason each day. Ran for mayor 4. Veldril 5. Pandain - Ran for mayor. At odds with Dr. H? 6. Aeres - Claimed BG and captain role that lets hi leave at night with restrictions. Says the BG claim was a lie. 7. deconduo 8. Coagulation 9. annul Bullet Bill / Bodyguard - Mayor candidate, real BG, if there is only 1. 10. infundibulum 11. Amber[LighT] 12. Kenpachi 13. lol1221 RebirthOfLegend 14. Nemesis 15. ghrur 16. KtheZ 17. QuickStriker Angsty Pardoner - Result of +1 kp of mafia? (node oracle) 18. CubEdIn 19. Meapak_Ziphh 20. SiNiquity Self-Conscious Vigilante 21. DCLXVI 22. Divinek 23. Lexpar 24. ShmotZ Mafia Do-Gooder - never used vote, part of fishball circle 25. Orgolove ADD Doctor - modkilled, fishball circle 26. Node - Claims oracle, can see where +1 mafia kp will strike 27. youngminii 28. jcarlsoniv - claims he was never poked by Dr. H 29. BrownBear Vote Rigger 30. Infinitestory 31. Masq L 32. NB 33. Meeple Glasse 34. Misder 35. kingjames01 Self-Conscious Lazy Vigilante 36. Ace 37. Fishball - Is in confirmed (orgolove) circle of 6. Only 3 remain. Claims he can determine alignment of his circle. 38. kitaman27 39. LunarDestiny
24 of 30 Town-aligned roles remaining 8 of 9 Mafia-aligned roles remaining
1 BG Murraytis spreads to visitors and visitees. 3 People infected. Radio Loony lets a message be sent by some player.
So lazy that I use this chart as reference...
According to the chart, ShmotZ and Orgolove are part of Fishball's circle. But according to the role pm given after their death, there is no mentioning for any circle whatsoever.
Orgolove the ADD Doctor is now dead.
You are the ADD Doctor! Once per night, you may PM me the person you want to save that night. However, if the person doesn't get hit at night, you get an ADD attack and have a 10% chance of killing him yourself, so be careful! You are not allowed to protect yourself, as you are paranoid that you might kill yourself. Furthermore, given the recent spreading of Murrayitis, you have trained yourself in being able to cure a person from this plague.
ShmotZ the Mafia Do-Gooder has been modkilled.
You are the Mafia Do-gooder! You never really wanted to be part of the mafia, but your dad just happened to be Al Capone so you were forced into it. Every day, you get an additional vote every day, but have to use it to vote on one of the mafia. If you are the only mafia left, you are relieved of this.
Once again, I repeat, QS was in the circle too. 6 total - 3 dead = 3 remaining, ok ?
Speaking of which, the 3rd member still have not replied to my PM regarding a request for a role claim. He just flat out did not reply to me.
Considering the mafia likely know everyone who is in the circle, I think you should tell everybody as a town. It's just more information that we don't have that the mafia does.
I've been considering it, but I respect the opinions of the other 2 members so I've been wanting to discuss with them; Only if one of the other guy get back to me first...
Also, there is a fair chance that the Mafia DO NOT know about the circle members, considering one of the Mafia members in the circle was actually mod-killed for inactivity. Whether or not he would pass on the information, is another story.
After re reading his initial claim of BG I am convinced there is no way this could be any sort of pro-town gambit. The claim is clearly not designed to soak up hits and it seems pretty obvious to me that hes just backtracking later.
On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote: Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind.
I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious.
On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post.
He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude.
Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL.
And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol
On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote: Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind.
I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious.
On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post.
He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude.
Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL.
And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol
1) If "I'm not going to defend myself against your argument" isn't martyrdom, I have NO clue what is. Enlighten me.
2) I don't think Aeres had a viable plan. His plan was terrible. That doesn't make it scummy for the reasons that youngminii listed. Aeres wanted to defend you, and I see no contradiction in trying to produce an extra bodyguard for the mafia to hit. It might not be a pretty or good solution, but it is not a scummy solution. Aeres explained his plan in full, and nobody's found a lie within that plan yet. That is what I mean by a solid defense.
3) It's more the fact that youngminii comes out of absolutely nowhere to defend you. Aeres defending you since the start is all fine and dandy, but youngminii's defense of you comes fairly out of the blue.
martyrdom is saying "goa head lynch me idc" like AERES and SiNiquity did. Did I mention Aeres did that? Aeres did that.
no he didn't explained his plan in full. he didn't explain his plan at all. he was intentionally vague and then when I asked what his plan could be he jumped immediately on to what I was talking about. HUGE difference.
out of the blue? what makes a defense out of the blue or not? what does that mean "coming out of nowhere?" where should he come from?
On November 02 2010 10:02 Ace wrote: @infitestory: Aeres did not explain his plan until DC revealed he never claimed bodyguard AND I called Aeres out on his lie. He outlined everything WAY after he caught lying. Big difference.
he didn't outline it himself
he basically said
"well i had a plan that was protown"
and I asked "oh was your plan (plan x)?"
"yeah it was plan X, that's right"
too bad plan x doesn't make any sense considering his roleclaim (soaking up mafia hits)
On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote: Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind.
I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious.
On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post.
He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude.
Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL.
And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol
1) If "I'm not going to defend myself against your argument" isn't martyrdom, I have NO clue what is. Enlighten me.
2) I don't think Aeres had a viable plan. His plan was terrible. That doesn't make it scummy for the reasons that youngminii listed. Aeres wanted to defend you, and I see no contradiction in trying to produce an extra bodyguard for the mafia to hit. It might not be a pretty or good solution, but it is not a scummy solution. Aeres explained his plan in full, and nobody's found a lie within that plan yet. That is what I mean by a solid defense.
3) It's more the fact that youngminii comes out of absolutely nowhere to defend you. Aeres defending you since the start is all fine and dandy, but youngminii's defense of you comes fairly out of the blue.
martyrdom is saying "goa head lynch me idc" like AERES and SiNiquity did. Did I mention Aeres did that? Aeres did that.
no he didn't explained his plan in full. he didn't explain his plan at all. he was intentionally vague and then when I asked what his plan could be he jumped immediately on to what I was talking about. HUGE difference.
out of the blue? what makes a defense out of the blue or not? what does that mean "coming out of nowhere?" where should he come from?
1) hey siniquity cemented himself on our lynch list day 1 for martyring himself, thanks for reminding me about that 2)
On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote: Alright, it's confession time.
I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard.
When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good.
When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried.
I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark.
I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town.
(I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....)
that doesn't sound particularly vague to me
3) Don't use that worthless rhetoric. He came out of the blue because he had one post on day 1, and only two (?) posts before he started defending you. You even noted that. That's why he was your #1 lynch on day 1, remember?
1)no he moved down on our lynch list because of it. we decided to lynch an inactive and they were the most suspicious two, I felt his martyring made him less suspicous than YM at the time (when he had little to no information to work with). But if you want to call YM suspicious for martyring, you have to say the same thing about Aeres. You can't be so selective with your logic.
2)where in that post does he actually describe his plan?
"so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan."
Could he be any more vague? If his point was to draw a hit off of DCLXVI (who is dying anyway) why would he tell the mafia "oh btw I'll block the hits with my special role" that's basically telling them "HEY DONT HIT ME GUYS"
3)you're the one using worthless rhetoric. Doesn't matter when he defended me. So he's more suspicious for defending me later (when he already explained his day 1 inactivity very adequately) rather than sooner? Aeres is less suspicious for defending me because at least he's been doing it all the while?
On November 02 2010 08:42 Hyperbola wrote: I honestly do not know who to vote for right now. Nothing seems solid. I'm gonna vote for someone random so I don't get modkilled.
On November 02 2010 08:41 Hyperbola wrote: #vote Node
It happens to be that node is the guy who has role to predict who mafia will kill next night.... lynching Node clearly an action to prevent nurse to save people.... for now, i will have my vote on Hyperbola while u guys bandwagon-ing on Aeres who i am 60% sure to be a result of mafia framing....
he's making a placeholder vote and it's clear he's not intending to start a bandwagon
come on dude
you are 60% sure to be a mafia framing? lol where did you get that statistic?
On October 29 2010 14:55 youngminii wrote: I buy fishball's story. I don't buy bum's.
This was fishy because he made no attempt to back this up. However I felt that a vote for fishball was less fishy than a last minute change from fishball to me so I made SiNiquity my #1 vote target. After SiNiquity martyred himself I switched back to youngminii, who dodged the lynch and SiNiquity died. I'll talk about the lynch dodge later.
On October 31 2010 19:50 youngminii wrote: hi
Sorry for not having been on in a while, I've been away from a computer for a bit (did not know it was going to happen). I'll skim the thread before I say anymore.
It's too hard to tell a good excuse for inactivity for a bad one. This is nonconclusive.
I will say this. Mafia's favorite thing to do is to make a player look suspicious because "he is making an excuse for being inactive" or because "oh they're inactive". So many players are usually inactive in a game mafia just has to swing the inactive bandwagon on to a blue player. In a normal set-up inactive players often have power roles and post rarely in the thread in fear that they'll somehow out themselves to the mafia. Be wary of hyperfocus on inactive players.
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
Unlynchable/Judas can just as well be a mafia role as a town role. The bold part struck me as strange because I think youngminii knows better than to use such a WIFOM argument. His second part "lynches bypass the two lives thing" is irrelevant. Obviously that is not his role since he dodged the lynch.
He paints me as relying on the metagame, which is not the case. I've referred to it and used it in my analysis, I haven't relied on it. I don't feel the metagame should be totally ignored. We as a town agreed to lynch an inactive on the first day and I felt that YM was the most suspicious amongst the inactives. It's simple.
I responded to his post and this argument didn't really go anywhere.
On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.
No comment.
Nevermind, you are correct. I misstated: The bodyguard prevents the Mayor from being hit, either during day or during night, and can't die except by Murrayitis or getting lynched.
Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway?
Pandain basically says here "We don't want you to roleclaim just tell us about your role and why you didn't die (aka roleclaim plz)". Youngminii doesn't fall into this potential trap and doesn't comment. Good.
On November 01 2010 04:07 youngminii wrote: Seriously Pandain? The lynch is the town's greatest weapon, you can't make scum immune to lynches without making the game horribly imbalanced.
In any case, why don't you think about it carefully before telling me to claim? If I'm invincible, no one will believe me. If I'm immune to lynches, mafia will kill me. If I'm able to manipulate something, that will make me just as suspicious as I am now.
Stop being an idiot and play the game properly. You always do this over-analytical crap which doesn't work. Go back a step and think before you post. Maybe you should start with the first post where clearly says PMs are not allowed.
His point here is good. The town has nothing to gain from youngminii roleclaiming at this point. what they do have is a potentially good role to lose.
On November 01 2010 04:17 youngminii wrote: He didn't PM me, he seems to be using "why aren't you PMing others" as an argument.
If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle
I don't want him to claim in thread if it hurts(thus through pms) and I don't even want him to claim entirely
Sorry Pandain, you're not an idiot, your arguments are.
I know you didn't read the thread entirely, so I'll just tell you it's already known by know there are roles where pms are allowed. If you're invincible, town(at least me) is not going to be like "wtf". If your immune, well then actually we might let you die if it will help other roles live
So you're assuming that I can PM people and your argument is that I should be roleclaiming through PMs?
And please, tell me how letting me die is a good thing? Back up your arguments. In any case, your posts have been hugely scummy to me, but then again they always are. I've never been in a mafia game where you've given solid arguments as a townie.
YoungMinii doesn't seem to like Pandain D: (then again I guess you could say the same thing about me times a billion in this thread.)
Pandain is pretty clearly trying to backtrack his way out of the fact that he was rolefishing here. YoungMinii does a good job of explaining why he disagrees with Pandain but is being quite harsh.
I can confirm from watching his behind the scenes play in haunted mafia that youngminii is just a harsh dude, it's part of his personality. I thought he and quickstriker were gonna kill eachother in irc D:
On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?
This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away.
Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer.
Maybe.
Drawing way too heavy of a conclusion from that post already. This is a pretty early accusation of Aeres and it's interesting to note that it came before Ace essentially started the Aeres bandwagon. If the mafia wanted to kill Aeres, why would the focus on him so specifically? Why would they continue this focus after Aeres came out as not being bodyguard.
If Aeres is town, it's pretty simple. He's the easiest target to lynch because he lied and admitted it. This is before Aeres lied though.
However Aeres claims were very suspicious and youngminii's suspicions aren't poorly founded. I wasn't necessarily convinced that he was a bodyguard but I did want to believe it (as having 2 bg's would be nice D
[r]This is where I start to disagree, YM is gunning for someone right now, and it feels like he is just dying to start a bandwagon. What a better way than to post something inflammatory like “Aeres is scum”, this is bound to cause controversy because Aeres hasn’t been proved lying and even though he it is discovered he lied later I still think YM is WAY to focused on starting a bandwagon against Aeres.[/r]
On November 01 2010 04:28 youngminii wrote: Yeah but that's just saying "IF there's a role like the one Aeres is claiming then it would be so"
On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:
On November 01 2010 04:21 infinitestory wrote:
On November 01 2010 04:16 Aeres wrote:
On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain.
I don't know whether Artanis would give us such a blatant lie, i.e. about the number of bodyguards. If you are, as you claim, a bodyguard, then I think that makes DCXLVI highly suspicious.
I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Why are you so sure there are 2 bodyguards? Wasn't your logic behind the 1 bodyguard theory based on the assumption that DCX is a bodyguard?
I want to ask you guys something too. Would it be a good idea to analyze the Murrayitis's mechanics and how it would affect the game in the long run? I think I find it's interesting but I'm not sure if other players agree or not.
I don't see why not.
Putting a lot of pressure on Aeres here, but it comes off as sensible to me. Aeres roleclaim was illogical and youngminii is catching him in some inconsistent claims. This is a good town post if you ask me.
[r]You see Aeres’ role claim as illogical but I considered doing the same thing. I really didn’t think it would cause the hubbub it did when Aeres did so I’m glad I didn’t but just the same to a new player it seems like a sensible thing to do. The body guard is revealed so hey, I’ll claim to throw the mafia off.[/r]
On November 01 2010 04:46 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Why would you say this if you only think there are 2 bodyguards because of dcx's 'claim'?
Good catch. Why would Aeres say this?
[r]Again from a new players perspective Aeres is making a lot of sense, I would have said the same thing in his position.[/r]
On November 01 2010 10:28 youngminii wrote: Okay I don't care what's going on right now since it doesn't seem to be anything of great substance.
Why is no one pointing their finger at Aeres? Did you not read the night post? A bodyguard died (Annul). Now according to LSB/Artanis, there's only one bodyguard. Maybe he's lying but if he is, we're still operating under the assumption that DCL softclaimed bodyguard.
So that makes 3 in total. Aeres's claim never made sense to me anyway, and the scumtells that he dropped (oh hey I'm assuming there's two bodyguards because of DCL's softclaim.. But what if DCL isn't a bodyguard? Who's the other one?). It almost looked as if Aeres was trying to gain our trust, make us lose trust in DCL and weed out any other bodyguards that may have tried to claim.
this is an improtant part of the post because it points out a possible mafia motivation for Aeres' actions. The people jumping on the youngminii bandwagon have tried to claim that "Aeres play makes sense as town not mafia" when it's been demonstrated a few times that's not really quite the case.
[r]Okay fair enough but I don’t know what youngminii bandwagon you’re talking about, at this point there are no votes for YM (in fact I’m the first vote which is almost 7 hours away).[/r]
On November 01 2010 12:13 youngminii wrote: LAL
Lynch All Liarsss
[r]Sounds so good on paper right? LAL, great pro town catch phrase. But everyone lies a little bit in mafia and this is just and inflammatory post against Aeres.[/r]
On November 01 2010 12:14 youngminii wrote: Pandain, slow down. Stop posting. Stop spamming the thread with long but useless information.
DrH, stop replying to his 'arguments'. You'll just detract from other, more important issues.
On November 01 2010 12:17 youngminii wrote: Sure that's important. The arguments being put forward (mainly by Pandain) are not important. They are useless, misguided and nothing will be brought up out of them. The only thing they might be able to do is convince some people to vote for DrH without any conclusive evidence.
Focus on Aeres. In case you don't know, LAL = Lynch All Liars.
On November 01 2010 12:22 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:21 Pandain wrote: Alright, I think just a series of reasonable questions will help express my point. Actually, sometimes I can't express an argument in question form so :/
On November 01 2010 12:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Doesn't really mean anything. If the insanity thing was such a big deal people could have switched bandwagons. The problem is the insanity thing applies to everyone and it isn't a point against me, it's just a part of this game that must be considered. 1.There were only two hours left 2. A major factor is that no one can even say if you actually used your role. The person who you claimed to have poked says he received no such thing. Now you defend yourself by saying you could've been roleblocked, or he could've been bussed. The first point is okay, but negated for reasons later expressed below. The second point is just illogical. It is more logical to assume you are mafia than that jcarl just happened to get bussed.
Everything adds up Pandain.
How could that kind of a role even have an insane aspect? Well we could start with the intial concern from infinitestory that my poke transfers murrayitis to a person. Perhaps the poke doesn't confirm itself to the other player but does tell me if they have murrayitis. Perhaps my poke only has a certain chance of going through. There are many possibilities here Pandain, am I really supposed to believe you couldn't think of 1?
Point is it didn't even happen Yeah, it is. That is the importance of my role as I understand it and as it is described in my role PM. What else do I have to go off of? Would you like me to tell you the importance of my role in an insane variation which I have no way of predicting or knowing?
Exactly! So why are you running if your role has a high chance of being unimportant. You claim its to soak up POTENTIAL roleblockers, but any townie could run and do just that. You're attacking me for defending him. Let me call it a chainsaw defense, which is even worse. What theory doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that jcarls could have lied? You're not even considering that? In order to bring up the possibility that he might not be telling the truth I have to also accuse him of being mafia? Wow dude I never thought you would make such awful points. Yes, it doesn't make sense for jcarl to lie. You yourself think he hasn't, and yet you critizice me for defending just that. I have considered it, but consider it highly more likely you are just scum.
My poke didn't go through to him and you all want to know why. So I'm telling you all the ways this could be possible and jcarls telling a lie is one of these things. It's a possibility among many that I have offered and it is the one I am pursuing the least and even calling the least likely. Just drop it. I never accused jcarls and your clown-ass arguments aren't coming anywhere close to making it look like I did.' Why did you lie to us if you knew this could happen. Why did you continue to claim you could be 100% confirmed Why would wasting a potential roleblocker's use on one night outweigh having an unconfirmed mayor who's lied.
I didn't lie to get elected. I had no reason to distrust the mods and never truly considered the possibility that my role was insane when I was talking about 100% confirmation. I intentionally withheld information because I didn't want the mafia to consider the possiblity that I would be soaking up roleblocks they might have. This is a "lie" designed to benefit town.
You start with "I didn't lie to get elected" and end with "this is a lie designed to benefit town." You claimed you would be 100% confirmed, now you claim you knew this would not happen. I did ditch the 100% thing. I consistently recognized the possibility that I would be insane and offered checks against it to the town. see the quote
STOP
He is very insistent on ending the argument I'm having with Pandain. Now I agree Pandain's arguments were illogical and dumb, but his intense focus on the Aeres bandwagon is something people brought up as suspicious.
Why is it suspicious?
Mafia don't focus down on a target like that unless they REALLY want them dead, especially this early in the game when their voting power isn't that strong. Mafia change their targets to what they think is the easiest, what's gonna bring the least criticism on them, what arguments does the town want to hear?
A townie has every reason to focus down on the player they most suspect, since it is essential that scumlynches occur. Anything else could very well be mafia noise and distraction. Attempts to discredit focus don't cut it for me.
[r]It’s suspicious because of his single mindedness, and of how little substance his posts have. He has had some good points but a lot of what he’s said is inflammatory and meant to rile up the town. I’m going to say it right now, I’m not experience at mafia so most of my arguments are face value, I wasn’t in haunted IRC so I don’t knew how he operates. From my perspective it looks like he’s trying to get an Aeres bandwagon started without considering everything.[/r]
On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote: His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases) Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it.
This is a good post. Pandain never responded though of course.
[r]Good post because it’s bashing Pandain who you currently have a beef with.[/r]
On November 01 2010 12:43 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:40 Nemesis wrote: Damn this has turned into a shitfest.
Can we please stop with all these "what ifs" bullshit?
I guess important thing right now is who I am going to lynch, then I'm sleeping.
Aeres, kgo.
Continual focus on Aeres
[r]Without any supporting evidence.[/r]
On November 01 2010 12:45 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:36 infinitestory wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:31 youngminii wrote: His 'lies' are more like promises that turned out to be untrue due to unforeseen circumstances.
Do you not see what's happening?
Someone: So DrH I think you might be lying because of x DrH: Well I wasn't lying but y happened so it looks like I was lying about x but there might also be the possibility of z (ie. he's covering all bases) Pandain: So you expect us to believe you about y AND z? How convenient that you came up with them (then he goes back to the original arguments that DrH already covered)
Just stop it.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to simply ignore the alignment of our mayor. I am in no way convinced he is a townie, even if you are. Knowing our mayor has an extra vote still, even if he doesn't have night protection anymore, he is still a power player that deserves additional attention.
That's not the point. There's no way of finding out whether or not our Mayor is a blue or a red as of now. The arguments that Pandain is putting up are ridiculous and stretched way too far, if you honestly keep up with your persistent following of this idiocy (I'm talking about his arguments, not Pandain himself) then I'm going to have to label you as scum following a blind argument aimed at taking down a blue mayor.
Defending me. While I'm glad somebody agrees Pandains arguments were dumb mafia would have a good motivation to attach themselves to me and make it appear as though they are on my side. If they die and flip red the mafia can easily use that to get me lynched. That's why I don't like speculating too much about factions, it can really go either way.
[r]The point is not that he’s defending you but that he continues to attack Pandain.[/r]
On November 01 2010 12:47 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:38 Pandain wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity. Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.
On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And again
Again I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again. Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.
Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you
cute addition ;o you're so snarky
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth? I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not. how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
Just stop replying to him, no one except infinitestory (and his scum buddies if he's scum) will listen to him. You'll drag it on too.
On November 01 2010 12:56 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:47 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:38 Pandain wrote:
On November 01 2010 12:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
it didn't highlight any lies because at the time I had said it I did not take into account the possibility of my role being insane. when this was brought out i immediately stopped saying it, as would be the reasonable thing to do Nope, for example this post was made after posts about insanity. Bad point. I said my power is to confirm itself to another player. This is still the case and I never retracted that statement. That is my role. To poke another player and confirm my role/name to them. Note I didn't use the term "100%" here.
On October 31 2010 08:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
And again
Again I'm not referring to my ability to 100% confirm but your assertion that you can confirm yourself as a townie through your role. which you said you could do without being mayor. Which you ALSO haven't done by the way.
On October 31 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
The also implies you can confirm yourself as 100% town, and then says it again. Here you admit your role is important in its ability to confirm yourself. Yet you continue to run.
Not running from it at all. I am openly admitting constaantly that my role has a power that can confirm itself to another player. It seems pretty clear I was roleblocked, it's very simple. I'm not saying "Oh no my role actually can't do that" just that it was prevented from doing so last night.
i explained my role and how it worked and how it confirmed to people good for you
cute addition ;o you're so snarky
anyone who didn't think of the possibility that that could be roleblocked/affected by busdrivers/affected by the lie of whoever it confirms to needs to take responsibility for that since I explained why I never brought it up in the first place
I stand by the statement that my role confirms itself 100% to whoever I poke. What Artanis has said recently has made me more confident then ever that my role is not insane and that it does exactly as it says which means I was roleblocked, some other role stopped me from poking, or that jcarls lied alright, so when can we confirm if that's the truth? I suppose when I am not roleblocked and my poke goes through? Or that my poke goes through and the person I poked is honest about it? Perhaps I should poke you and see if you tell the truth about it or not. how is that a lie? if the poke goes through it is a 100% confirmation, that is the power and that is still the power I have.
Just stop replying to him, no one except infinitestory (and his scum buddies if he's scum) will listen to him. You'll drag it on too.
Why? The more desperate he gets the better everyone can see how scummy he's playing.
And how easy it would be for the mafia to turn it against me if I just say nothing at all. Regardless I feel like this a lot of noise designed to distract from the Aeres situation.
Would be nice and all if Pandain didn't play like this all the time.
I'm still waiting for a counter argument for/from Aeres, until then my vote will stand.
@inifinitestory: So we elected DrH because we thought he'd be able to confirm. Now there may be a way for a red to take away that ability to confirm OR they may be the possibility that DrH is red. So you want to spam up the thread and kill him based on that? At most, I see this as a 50/50 chance, mathematically speaking. I see Aeres as a much better investment.
P.S. I'm ignoring you Pandain, I don't feel the need to respond to your argument and spam the thread even more.
On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote: You don't fake a roleclaim to confuse mafia. You will only end up confusing town, especially if you do it early in the game. Everyone knows this.
Even if there was the small chance that he's telling the truth, he deserves to be killed because of the simple fact that he lied and confused town. His lie and DrH's 'lie' are completely different things. This type of play is discouraged and he should be killed off for it, Bill Murray used to do it a lot to the great dismay of everyone.
LAL
This is the truth, really. It causes way more harm to the town than it does to the mafia.
This I disagree with. If we knew somehow that Aeres was 100% town it would be dumb to lynch him especially when the role "Cruiseship Captain" that he claimed could be valuable.
[r]More attempts at bandwagoning Aeres WITH NO EVIDENCE. Also more shots at Pandain and one at infinitestory[/r]
On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 13:06 Misder wrote: I'm going to bring this up again, why do you think mafia chose to kill annul? Do you think they found about him being the bodygaurd? Cause I don't see another reason why mafia would kill him. He didn't make any amazingly good post that would screw mafia over did he?
The only real reason I can think of is he played extremely well in Haunted Mafia (carried us to victory). Maybe they saw him as a threat.
On November 01 2010 13:13 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote: Still that is the best way for him to use his role if he is telling the truth now, I just am not sure where to criticize his confession. LAL or believe that it was an honest mistake? Kind of a dumb play for scum so I am inclined to believe him.
I've been thinking about this for a while now.
Mafia use a chatroom or something similar as an efficient tool for chatting. Often times the mods of the game join the chatroom to oversee what's happening. So at the point where Aeres had already roleclaimed the second bodyguard (after Annul) a lot of people were asking Artanis whether or not he made lies up. Artanis replied that he would not give an outright lie. This would tell us there is only one bodyguard (unless I'm missing something) which essentially outs Aeres as a liar. So I'm thinking Artanis probably gave Aeres a heads up that he was going to say what he said about the lies beforehand so that Aeres could get a chance to redeem himself a little bit by admitting his lie. ie. he was backed into a corner with no more options.
I'm probably horribly wrong on this though, heh.
Fair enough.
On November 01 2010 13:15 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote: So the potential doctor is risking saving a "confirmed" blue vs losing himself as well. Unless someone provides me with an good enough reason I will not fully roleclaim
You're going to die anyway. Unless the mafia are allowed to move the hit?
On November 01 2010 13:19 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 13:16 Nemesis wrote: I don't know why there are a good amount of people lynching Aeres. Aeres basically roleclaimed to take a hit incase DC was actually bodyguard. And if he isn't lying about his role, that is basically the best thing he can do with it.
Also, what benefit could roleclaiming as bodyguard give mafia really?
Trust? Too much relaxation? As scum they could put us into a state of 'oh hey the Mayor has a bodyguard, he won't die, we don't need a doctor to protect him' if we think he's still got an active bodyguard.
I mean, who the hell would actually go to the trouble of making an entire 'Cruiseship Captain' role by themself? Looks like it was looked over and peer reviewed by an entire team of people imo.
Okay, since it seems that the Doc's position as Mayor is in jeopardy, I'm going to put some interesting info out there.
On October 31 2010 10:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Further news I forgot to put in the night post: Due to budget cuts, we have only managed to purchase one bodyguard for the Mayor.
Artanis lied.
There are two Bodyguards, not one. I don't know who the first one is (I suspect it's DC), but I am the second one.
I was going to play dumb about my role of Bodyguard until DC screwed up. I dunno if he really is the other Bodyguard, but if he is, I feel like if he was killed, then the Mafia, upon learning that there is a second Bodyguard (due to a failed hit on Mayor), would start hitting the most outspoken townspeople in lieu of the Mayor. Since I am in fact one of the more outspoken people in this topic, I was at risk of being "tapped", so to speak.
I would also like to note that my normal role greatly assists my ability to act as a Bodyguard. Since Bodyguards block hits on the Mayor, killing them makes the Mayor vulnerable. My role is designed to increase my longevity as long as possible.
My role is called the "Cruiseship Captain". I am eligible to PM a mod in order to set sail for the ocean and leave town for the night, thus becoming immune to any and all night actions (positive and negative alike, including roleblocks and DT checks). I am not permitted to set sail on consecutive nights.
Because of this mechanic, I can survive on my own for a short while. Having a Medic tend to me will not be necessary for the first few nights. Once my role has been exhausted of uses (I do not know how many times I can set sail in this game, only that it is more than once), Medics are more than welcome to assist me.
Also, please keep in mind that my role has an additional function that I am not presently willing to reveal.
Yeah, this is all great, Aeres, but now you sound mighty suspicious to me!
Well, yes, I cannot deny that I seem fishy (pardon the pun, I am a Cruiseship Captain, after all). I also imagine it does not help my case that setting sail makes me immune to DT checks. I assure you all, however, that I am working in the interests of the town. Believe me, I'd rather not cause suspicion when it isn't warranted, but DC's possibly slip-up forced my hand.
Now i'm not sure. The cruiseship captain seems like it could be a legit role. This is really not useful speculation since we don't know what Artanis is thinking.
[r]More speculation mixed in with his attacks on Aeres.[/r]
On November 01 2010 13:47 youngminii wrote: You should see Pandain's style of play in other games. In almost every game as town he would pull this type of shit and get killed and flip town and cause mass confusion.
@jcarl: I understand what you mean by the town being very secure about me but there's not much they can do. As far as they can tell, I might be invincible and trying to kill me will do nothing. In any case, there's not really anything toooooo scummy about my (perceived) role imo.
True. Pandain is a pretty scummy town player.
[r]In your opinion (and his… there seems to be a connection between you and YM?)[/r]
On November 01 2010 14:05 youngminii wrote: Well then we should kill Aeres and find out, no? ^_^
Kills for information, not a strategy I like. I suppose there is no better alternative, we have to lynch somebody and ym/ace made a good case for Aeres.
[r]There is a better alternative, lynch YM[/r]
On November 01 2010 14:50 youngminii wrote: I cannot think of these situations you refer to but I'm about a hundred percent sure that a softclaim that was vague at best (which turned out to not be a claim) at basically the beginning of the game does not warrant a roleclaim that not only claims the bodyguard role but an extra Cruiseship Captain role.
Oh, let's not forget the fact that he said that the mods lied about the number of bodyguard roles too.
Good point here.
[r]Actually the soft claim was pretty convincing to me, he STILL gets in an attack on Aeres.[/r]
On November 01 2010 15:08 youngminii wrote: Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone.
This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones.
On November 01 2010 15:18 youngminii wrote: Oh right. There were quite a few. Even I thought the mods were lying because they never said anything about it.
On November 01 2010 22:24 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 20:18 Coagulation wrote: the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy.
Actually I'm just waiting for a counter argument. There's only so much I can say by myself, it takes two to create a discussion.
On November 01 2010 22:25 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 22:24 NB wrote: very interesting that the elder vote has been used again? Could it be that there is some insight that our DTs has connection with the elder and the vote is 100% correct? :D
Interesting theory. We should keep this in mind, perhaps?
On November 01 2010 23:50 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 22:43 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm not going to quote YM directly since he seems to be active (wow..).
Why you so active? Day 1 you were hiding in the back not making many waves. Now you want to go after someone who has probably made a "newbie" mistake as though he's just stolen all of the cookies from the cookie jar.
Look at your arguments, and look at other arguments. You're really gunning for someone who we don't really know enough about. And you're kinda throwing random discussion out. Sad to say this is typical of your "pro-town" play. It's also worth noting that we know you're not "just a townie" since you would usually play quiet until you're lynched, making yourself completely useless. How useful your being should determine your alignment...
I apologise, I can try be more inactive just for you. What a great argument you have there. I've already said I was afk for basically all of day 1, are you seriously saying you can't see that?
Probably made a 'newbie' mistake? It's a pretty huge mistake/scumtell if you looked at it carefully, I don't see why you're letting the cookie thief get away without even a slap on the wrist.
I look at my arguments and then I look at the argument I threw out. Pandain and DrH going at it about how DrH has no way of proving he's innocent. Is this argument constructive? No, it will bring nothing new to the table. No analysis, except maybe Pandain's overeagerness of going for DrH. My arguments are designed to punish the liar, the person who got caught red handed in his 'one man hero attempt to save the bodyguard'. I'm still waiting for the counterargument and it's not coming. So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and gun him.
I wasn't aware I had a style of being quiet until I'm lynched if I was just a townie. If you could direct me to a game where I did this, please do. Ditto for my typical 'pro-town' play. Oh yeah, how is it worth nothing I'm not 'just a townie'? You realise there are no 'just a townies' in this game, right? Or are you that inactive?
I'd appreciate it if you stopped pulling idiotic arguments out. Thank you very much,
I'm not sure Amber read the thread all the way through. He didn't catch my roleclaim and a few other bits of key information so I'm just gonna disregard the first part here.
Amber's entire argument here is pretty much meta. Youngminii makes the case for his lynch of Aeres. This is a good post by YM imo.
[r]It’d be fun if one of his posts didn’t contain a personal attack, regardless he’s still hitting Aeres because he lied, at this point BIG SCREAMING DEAL. I don’t care that Aeres lied, it makes sense to me and I think YM is desperately trying to get a bandwagon going based simply on “the lie” which if you just read his posts might make you think the lie caused half the town to be killed.[/r] ________________________________________
On November 01 2010 23:55 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 23:44 Aeres wrote: ##Vote Aeres
There's no redemption for me now. I made a bad move as an inexperienced player, and the town suffered because of it. I'm too much of a liability to keep alive, so I am voting for myself to smooth things out when I'm lynched.
Again, I apologize for making such an audacious play. I clearly should have considered the ramifications of my actions better, and because I was hasty, the town is no better off than before. At best, I learned what not to do in a Mafia game.
I don't expect to survive the day, so I'm taking the chance now to say good luck. I let you guys down, but I'm still rooting for you.
I don't even... What?
I've said time and time again I'm waiting for you to argue. I'm not 100% certain you're scum, I don't think anyone is, and you have this time to point out why we shouldn't lynch you. It is never, ever good town play to lynch yourself unless there's a special scenario/mechanic that directly helps town to do it.
Another good point by youngminii. IMO this shows that he isn't a mafia hellbent on lynching Aeres (could be a mafia trying to do something else) but is merely interested in lynching whoever the best target is at the time.
If he was mafia wanting a bandwagon on Aeres, there is no reason to make a post cautioning the town that he might be a VI.
[r]Hell bent hehe perhaps you forgot all his other posts then? He’s just about as hell bent as you can get… did you already forget the LAL shit? Other than that he does make a good point here, why did Aeres vote for himself?[/r]
On November 02 2010 00:03 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 23:57 Amber[LighT] wrote:
On November 01 2010 23:50 youngminii wrote:
On November 01 2010 22:43 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm not going to quote YM directly since he seems to be active (wow..).
Why you so active? Day 1 you were hiding in the back not making many waves. Now you want to go after someone who has probably made a "newbie" mistake as though he's just stolen all of the cookies from the cookie jar.
Look at your arguments, and look at other arguments. You're really gunning for someone who we don't really know enough about. And you're kinda throwing random discussion out. Sad to say this is typical of your "pro-town" play. It's also worth noting that we know you're not "just a townie" since you would usually play quiet until you're lynched, making yourself completely useless. How useful your being should determine your alignment...
I apologise, I can try be more inactive just for you. What a great argument you have there. I've already said I was afk for basically all of day 1, are you seriously saying you can't see that?
Probably made a 'newbie' mistake? It's a pretty huge mistake/scumtell if you looked at it carefully, I don't see why you're letting the cookie thief get away without even a slap on the wrist.
I look at my arguments and then I look at the argument I threw out. Pandain and DrH going at it about how DrH has no way of proving he's innocent. Is this argument constructive? No, it will bring nothing new to the table. No analysis, except maybe Pandain's overeagerness of going for DrH. My arguments are designed to punish the liar, the person who got caught red handed in his 'one man hero attempt to save the bodyguard'. I'm still waiting for the counterargument and it's not coming. So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and gun him.
I wasn't aware I had a style of being quiet until I'm lynched if I was just a townie. If you could direct me to a game where I did this, please do. Ditto for my typical 'pro-town' play. Oh yeah, how is it worth nothing I'm not 'just a townie'? You realise there are no 'just a townies' in this game, right? Or are you that inactive?
I'd appreciate it if you stopped pulling idiotic arguments out. Thank you very much,
Well without putting much effort into outting you since you don't know yourself well enough, this was (what looks like) your end-post for Flamewheels game:
On August 15 2010 23:09 youngminii wrote: I'm a bit sick of this game. I don't think I like playing town roles that much, I'm just not motivated to play, sorry about the afkness. I'm still trying to keep up with what's happening though.
From what I can tell: Misder = mafia (confirmed) foolishness = mafia (in my eyes)
Very apathetic. Not very engaging. Not really pushing with "evidence." You had this epiphany where you're going to use reason in your posts? I find it highly suspicious.
I was scum. Nice try though. Thanks for the 4000th
amber made a dumb mistake here : /
maybe i should read through ambers posts
Well that's the end of YM's posts.
I think youngminii is a pro-town player. Amber's attempts to metagame and make youngminii look mafia for it were pathetic and fell flat on their face. He has shown that he is willing to consider a better target than Aeres should it arise, and his arguments against Aeres in the first place are mostly good ones. Aside from that he's contributed other useful posts throughout the thread.
Now I'll talk about the lynch dodge. I know of three roles that can dodge lynches: unlynchable (either mafia or town) saulus (mafia) judas (town)
The unlynchable does not get lynched the first time he is lynched. The second time it will work.
The saulus is a mafia player that when lynched the first time becomes town. I consider this an OP role because the saulus can then release the mafia list, unless the saulus is a player intentionally kept in the dark about who else is mafia.
the judas is a town player that when lynched the first time becomes mafia. Opposite of Saulus. My main concern for youngminii is that this is his role.
It is also possible that a bus type of role acted on youngminii/SiN or that a pardoner type role was somehow involved. Ultimately speculation is nonconclusive and i'd be highly suspicious of further attempts to force youngminii to roleclaim.
[r]I think YM is the best Scum target we have, he’s consistently tried to get a bandwagon going on a player who probably made an honest mistake, he attacks Pandain over and over and over again and tries to shut the discussion about your townieness down. I’m actually getting suspicious of you know especially since you went really easy on YM imo. Your analysis was really soft and you got in several good shots at Pandain while you were at it.[/r]
You say he probably just made an honest mistake? what makes you believe this? I feel I've pointed out a huge inconsistency in Aeres' defense and everyone seems to be ignoring it.
On November 02 2010 10:13 infinitestory wrote: I'm done arguing about this. I've heard both sides. You bring up valid points. Aeres did lie. He did confuse the town. He did have holes in his play. But he ended up revealing it all. I think I bring up valid points. Youngminii is far too fanatic about lynching Aeres. Youngminii didn't defend himself for a good while. Youngminii's posting behavior is erratic. But he's defended himself now.
I'm going to keep my vote on youngminii. I'll stand by my own beliefs.
I still don't want ANYONE bandwagoning on either candidate. I want everyone to read both sides of every argument. I hope we can at least agree that bandwagoning is undesirable, and that we should apply pressure to those who blindly vote or voted.
"I'm done defending myself"
not too different from what youngminii said really, just more subtle
what else do you want to talk about for the rest of the day? these are the two major bandwagons and now you suddenly just want to drop out of the conversation?
On November 02 2010 10:18 infinitestory wrote: Happy page 100.
Our argument, like the one you had with Pandain, is now going in circles. If you have any additional points to bring up, I'll hear them. If I have any additional points to bring up, I'll share them.
On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote: Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind.
I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious.
On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post.
He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude.
Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL.
And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol
1) If "I'm not going to defend myself against your argument" isn't martyrdom, I have NO clue what is. Enlighten me.
2) I don't think Aeres had a viable plan. His plan was terrible. That doesn't make it scummy for the reasons that youngminii listed. Aeres wanted to defend you, and I see no contradiction in trying to produce an extra bodyguard for the mafia to hit. It might not be a pretty or good solution, but it is not a scummy solution. Aeres explained his plan in full, and nobody's found a lie within that plan yet. That is what I mean by a solid defense.
3) It's more the fact that youngminii comes out of absolutely nowhere to defend you. Aeres defending you since the start is all fine and dandy, but youngminii's defense of you comes fairly out of the blue.
martyrdom is saying "goa head lynch me idc" like AERES and SiNiquity did. Did I mention Aeres did that? Aeres did that.
no he didn't explained his plan in full. he didn't explain his plan at all. he was intentionally vague and then when I asked what his plan could be he jumped immediately on to what I was talking about. HUGE difference.
out of the blue? what makes a defense out of the blue or not? what does that mean "coming out of nowhere?" where should he come from?
1) hey siniquity cemented himself on our lynch list day 1 for martyring himself, thanks for reminding me about that 2)
On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote: Alright, it's confession time.
I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard.
When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good.
When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried.
I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark.
I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town.
(I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....)
that doesn't sound particularly vague to me
3) Don't use that worthless rhetoric. He came out of the blue because he had one post on day 1, and only two (?) posts before he started defending you. You even noted that. That's why he was your #1 lynch on day 1, remember?
1)no he moved down on our lynch list because of it. we decided to lynch an inactive and they were the most suspicious two, I felt his martyring made him less suspicous than YM at the time (when he had little to no information to work with). But if you want to call YM suspicious for martyring, you have to say the same thing about Aeres. You can't be so selective with your logic.
2)where in that post does he actually describe his plan?
"so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan."
Could he be any more vague? If his point was to draw a hit off of DCLXVI (who is dying anyway) why would he tell the mafia "oh btw I'll block the hits with my special role" that's basically telling them "HEY DONT HIT ME GUYS"
3)you're the one using worthless rhetoric. Doesn't matter when he defended me. So he's more suspicious for defending me later (when he already explained his day 1 inactivity very adequately) rather than sooner? Aeres is less suspicious for defending me because at least he's been doing it all the while?
i fail to follow your logic.
these ones
if you could highlight specifically where he highlights his plan in that post I'd love to hear it
On November 02 2010 10:31 Nemesis wrote: Well I'm back and I've been reading a lot.
Yum Yum
Time to give my input on things. 1. LAL is a BAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDD policy. What is important is not that they lied or what they lied about, but their reasons for lying aka their motive. which you have no information about Although I do find Aeres martyring himself as fishy. 2. If you are going to go with LAL policy, why aren't you gunning for DrH too, YM and Ace? because i never lied, that was made incredibly obvious in several posts
3. DoctorH, I have FoS on, but I don't really want to lynch him at this point as he is mayor, and can really help in the lategame if he is indeed town. Besides, he is always in the spotlight, more chance for him to slipup like he's been slowly doing all day. slipping up how? 4. For the youngminii bandwagon, I also have FoS on youngminii but I wouldn't really lynch him yet, and I find it weird how they are ignoring that Ace was also tried to get people to bandwagon for Aeres, but his name is not being mentioned when he's essentially doing the same thing that they are lynching youngminii for. Mafia too scared to go after Ace directly because of his experience. youngminii is the easy lynch choice because his posting is more erratic 5. It seems that youngminii and doctorH are defending each other, another thing I find suspicious but not suspicious for infinitestory to defend aeres, or for coag to defend pandain. RIGHT OK. sure is selective reading here. 6. I don't agree with fishing for inactives is a bad thing. With all these back and forth going on between you guys, the inactives are left out of the spotlight: a perfect place for mafia to hide. Also, inactives makes any kind of post analysis useless on them. For now, I'll vote Veldril. And a perfect place for blues to hide as well. So we shouldn't lynch Aeres for lying and failing to defend himself but we should lynch an inactive on a nonconclusive basis? bulllllllshit.
f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?
This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away.
Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer.
Maybe.
Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory?
For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me.
You know the Cruiseship Captain role was made up, right? Or am I missing something here...
ok, no wonder I felt like there was this gigantic disconnect
can someone point me to where we agreed that Cruiseship Captain is made up
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was confirmed by Aeres that the Cruise Ship Captain is a fake role. All we know is that he lied about the Bodyguard role.
On November 02 2010 08:42 Hyperbola wrote: I honestly do not know who to vote for right now. Nothing seems solid. I'm gonna vote for someone random so I don't get modkilled.
On November 02 2010 08:41 Hyperbola wrote: #vote Node
It happens to be that node is the guy who has role to predict who mafia will kill next night.... lynching Node clearly an action to prevent nurse to save people.... for now, i will have my vote on Hyperbola while u guys bandwagon-ing on Aeres who i am 60% sure to be a result of mafia framing....
he's making a placeholder vote and it's clear he's not intending to start a bandwagon
come on dude
you are 60% sure to be a mafia framing? lol where did you get that statistic?
everyone has a special role... also im taking note seriously... but yeah, i made that number up i just feel really unsafe when follow major bandwagon :<....
if thats a place holder vote and he is changing his, ima change mine :D
so follow the minor bandwagon instead? both youngminii/aeres have nearly identical sized bandwagons
On November 02 2010 11:18 NB wrote: hmm, i wana have you guys opinion on this: so Node said DCLXVI will die tonight! we also lost our 1 and only bodyguard!
who should the medic protect night2? mayor or DCLXVI assuming we only have 1 medic?....
Uh, so, that's... a town mediated hit?
Mafia doesn't send in their hits during the day unless they have a dayvig, and if they had a Dayvig, they could just shoot just prior to the vote close to fuck over Node/Medic reactions. So Node's probably not detecting dayvigs.
Did I miss something day 1? I'm pretty sure I did.
At the very end of Night 1, Node claimed that he knew BrownBear was going to die. He then claimed that his role was "oracle," which allowed him to see at the beginning of each day one player who's slated to die that night. DCLXVI is, according to Node, slated to die tonight. Possible connections between Node's role and the +1 part of mafia's 2+1 KP have been brought up. One suggestion in particular says that there's a red with the role of killing one guy randomly each night, and Node gets to find out who that is at the start of the day. The possibility of Node being a red baiting medics has also been brought up.
The +1 makes sense, but that means that mafia would have had to..
hmm.
Node, when did you recieve the two PMs notifying you who's going to die?
Like I said, he claims it's at the beginning of the day each day. He also claims that he received QuickStriker's name at the beginning of Day 1, but QuickStriker was modkilled at the end of Day 1, so he then received BrownBear's name.
I have known this for quite a while, but it just got me thinking: What do you think the odds are that the mods would change the "oracled" target if that target was modkilled? Idk, it just seems to me that if the player was modkilled, well that's tough shit for the oracle, his power is wasted for the day. Thinking about this, Node actually does seem pretty fishy.
Eye of Suspicion
That's just speculation. Node seems to think there is a predetermined list and that if a player os modkilled a new target is chosen. Or there is a mafia killing role that must decide on a kill ahead of time
(Decide 1 kill in the day + 2 kills at night) and node is aware of the day choice
there are many possibilities here, I don't think we can draw any serious conclusions from. obviously due to the gravity of his roleclaim his posting can not be ignored.
On November 02 2010 12:36 Amber[LighT] wrote: On Node: That seems like really risky play by the mafia. Why steer hits away so early to gun for the mayor? It's not like drH's votes make such a great difference at the moment. This would have to be a long-term baiting where we continuously have to follow Node's advice and failing to protect people. This ability seems pretty cool, but detrimental as well since we now have to think about saving player x vs. potentially saving people who could not even be targeted tonight.
Well, if he's mafia, he'll be a fucking annoyance for 2 more night or so, because I'd imagine he'll be honest with his telegraphed hits to the town. Day 5 i can see him lying to secure a critical kill to end the game, but whatever. Mafia's going to have to play around him one way or another and that's probably good for us. If you want to omit him from your list because there are better targets, that's cool beans.
As for DrH's votes not making a great difference; Wrong. DrH counts as 2 people for the purposes of town/mafia balance when we arrive at LyLo. Ignoring this now leads us into situations wherein we miscalculate our possibilities by 1 and lose to potential burst nightroles. Even within the next 2 days, its possible that we have m-rus explode all over everyone's faces and get pared down to a very spartan day 4 where a single extra vote might decide the game.
Anyways, mafia completely ruined my gaming tonight, so I'm off to go play a round before I get some sleep. Chowsers.
And the extra voting power on the side of town can be very much beneficial in the late game. Obviously my extra vote makes a difference but it's hasty to assume this will be a bad thing for the town.
On November 02 2010 12:48 Beneather wrote: That was a very confusing post right there. From what evidence did you have that DocH and what was the point of saying that if you die DocH was a scum. The part that I do not understand in your post is that your changing your mind. That you do not want to be killed so you may be a scum for "trying to frame DocH" But as you notice that DocH may not be killed since the topic has changed on to different suspects you have changed your mind because you wanted DocH to be killed. This may be the evidence that you are a scum.
Sorry if this did not make sense its my first time!
huh? can you word this better?
Alright I shall try.
From lexpar post he had changed his mind from saying that if he dies DocH was scum without any information towards his statement. Trying to put the people's attention towards DocH (In my head trying to lynch him) But once the topic had changed from DocH to the other suspects he had changed his mind posting again to clarify this. In my head I am thinking that he was trying to get rid of DocH so we have lost a mayor and that he was an important role. If you look at his other posts he has just been accusing people with little background to support his statements. If you do accuse somebody should you not have background against them?
This is much harder than I expected but gets the brain thinking and is fun nonetheless
Well, he's implying that he has a role that will somehow assuredly die or most likely die if a mafia is elected mayor. Or that I would be given some sort of information as a mafia mayor that would lead me to put a hit on him that I would not have as a town mayor.
He didn't accuse me but said "If X happens than Y is likely true and if X doesn't happen then Z is likely true". It's a conditional accusation. It's confusing and it cannot be confirmed, but I don't want him to roleclaim unless it is an absolute necessity which at this point it is not.
On November 02 2010 12:09 Pandain wrote: oh wtf, im almost at 2000? screw the part1/2/3/4/5 crud. I'm a do a full blown analysis.
Don't expect me to post for a while :p
I won't lie to you, I probably won't even bother reading it. I already know what it will say.
On November 02 2010 12:14 infinitestory wrote:
On November 02 2010 12:10 L wrote:
On November 02 2010 11:44 infinitestory wrote:
On November 02 2010 11:40 L wrote:
On November 02 2010 11:18 NB wrote: hmm, i wana have you guys opinion on this: so Node said DCLXVI will die tonight! we also lost our 1 and only bodyguard!
who should the medic protect night2? mayor or DCLXVI assuming we only have 1 medic?....
Uh, so, that's... a town mediated hit?
Mafia doesn't send in their hits during the day unless they have a dayvig, and if they had a Dayvig, they could just shoot just prior to the vote close to fuck over Node/Medic reactions. So Node's probably not detecting dayvigs.
Did I miss something day 1? I'm pretty sure I did.
At the very end of Night 1, Node claimed that he knew BrownBear was going to die. He then claimed that his role was "oracle," which allowed him to see at the beginning of each day one player who's slated to die that night. DCLXVI is, according to Node, slated to die tonight. Possible connections between Node's role and the +1 part of mafia's 2+1 KP have been brought up. One suggestion in particular says that there's a red with the role of killing one guy randomly each night, and Node gets to find out who that is at the start of the day. The possibility of Node being a red baiting medics has also been brought up.
The +1 makes sense, but that means that mafia would have had to..
hmm.
Node, when did you recieve the two PMs notifying you who's going to die?
Like I said, he claims it's at the beginning of the day each day. He also claims that he received QuickStriker's name at the beginning of Day 1, but QuickStriker was modkilled at the end of Day 1, so he then received BrownBear's name.
I have known this for quite a while, but it just got me thinking: What do you think the odds are that the mods would change the "oracled" target if that target was modkilled? Idk, it just seems to me that if the player was modkilled, well that's tough shit for the oracle, his power is wasted for the day. Thinking about this, Node actually does seem pretty fishy.
Eye of Suspicion
That's just speculation. Node seems to think there is a predetermined list and that if a player os modkilled a new target is chosen. Or there is a mafia killing role that must decide on a kill ahead of time
(Decide 1 kill in the day + 2 kills at night) and node is aware of the day choice
there are many possibilities here, I don't think we can draw any serious conclusions from. obviously due to the gravity of his roleclaim his posting can not be ignored.
Haha fair enough. I just wanted to put Eye of Suspicion on someone...
I was gonna on Lexpar, but he posted and placated me. It scares me that we haven't heard from Divinek...
I'm scared of an inactive Divinek too. He wasn't extremely active behind the scenes in haunted/brownbears mafia but he is a really good player and is good at blending in with the town.
On November 02 2010 12:09 Pandain wrote: oh wtf, im almost at 2000? screw the part1/2/3/4/5 crud. I'm a do a full blown analysis.
Don't expect me to post for a while :p
I won't lie to you, I probably won't even bother reading it. I already know what it will say.
On November 02 2010 12:14 infinitestory wrote:
On November 02 2010 12:10 L wrote:
On November 02 2010 11:44 infinitestory wrote: [quote] At the very end of Night 1, Node claimed that he knew BrownBear was going to die. He then claimed that his role was "oracle," which allowed him to see at the beginning of each day one player who's slated to die that night. DCLXVI is, according to Node, slated to die tonight. Possible connections between Node's role and the +1 part of mafia's 2+1 KP have been brought up. One suggestion in particular says that there's a red with the role of killing one guy randomly each night, and Node gets to find out who that is at the start of the day. The possibility of Node being a red baiting medics has also been brought up.
The +1 makes sense, but that means that mafia would have had to..
hmm.
Node, when did you recieve the two PMs notifying you who's going to die?
Like I said, he claims it's at the beginning of the day each day. He also claims that he received QuickStriker's name at the beginning of Day 1, but QuickStriker was modkilled at the end of Day 1, so he then received BrownBear's name.
I have known this for quite a while, but it just got me thinking: What do you think the odds are that the mods would change the "oracled" target if that target was modkilled? Idk, it just seems to me that if the player was modkilled, well that's tough shit for the oracle, his power is wasted for the day. Thinking about this, Node actually does seem pretty fishy.
Eye of Suspicion
That's just speculation. Node seems to think there is a predetermined list and that if a player os modkilled a new target is chosen. Or there is a mafia killing role that must decide on a kill ahead of time
(Decide 1 kill in the day + 2 kills at night) and node is aware of the day choice
there are many possibilities here, I don't think we can draw any serious conclusions from. obviously due to the gravity of his roleclaim his posting can not be ignored.
Haha fair enough. I just wanted to put Eye of Suspicion on someone...
I was gonna on Lexpar, but he posted and placated me. It scares me that we haven't heard from Divinek...
so your basically saying that your just trying to accuse people for the sake of accusing people? really? thats as anti town as it gets.
Was I accusing him? No.
I felt left out because of all this ridiculous arguing, and I want people to look at others for possible lynch targets because I believe this argument really didn't get us far.
Go ahead and try to paint me anti-town if you really want to. I'm not sure you'll get too far.
im not trying to paint you anti town. but dont pretend that trying to put eye of suspicion on people because you feel left out is a good way to help town.
Feeling left out isn't the lead persuasion for wanting to search for other targets. Wanting to expand the discussion is.
While I know it is likely there are some blues lurking/being inactive, I would say that it is almost certain there are lurking mafia. This scares me because they can just sit back while people like Doc/Pandain/YM/infinite bicker and split the town into to halves.
The problem with talking about inactives, is you can't really talk about inactives. If players are truly inactive, not posting at all, then really they're all equally likely to be scum and no real conclusions can be drawn.
However it is by no means a good thing that the town gets split 50/50 or that one argument/conflict is the spotlight of the entire day. Inactives need to start posting!
I actually did it a while back. Let me find it for you. I concluded that there was too little information to make a solid conclusion and that he should be under a strong watch as he seems to be trying to fish a lot of roleclaims from people.
There are better lynch choices for sure though ATM.
On November 02 2010 13:24 Nemesis wrote: Can someone do an analysis on misder? He seems to have a lot of low content post.
I am just too lazy right now as I have a lot of work to do.
On November 01 2010 10:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I decided to analyse misders posts because I've been feeling really uncomfortable with his role fishing. I'll analyse some other players that have been brought up as suspicious later.
Misder:
His first post concerns a question asking how Murrayitis works. Nothing scummy/towny in that, both sides would have an interest in knowing. For a while his posts just clarify rules for other players, say things that are obvious, etc. It isn't until his 4th or 5th post that he contributes.
On October 29 2010 10:02 Misder wrote: Since we're all blue (well, the town is), won't it be difficult for the mafia to know who to focus down, esp since they don't even know what roles there are? I'm just questioning since even if you role claim, it doesn't really do anything bad for the town.
I'd actually argue the other way. If we all role claim, we are able to check what other people do during the night action and see if it fits into their role. Also, the mafia won't know what roles there are, so their going to have to make their roles up. The biggest flaw in this is that then, the mafia will know what roles there are and who they are, but if we are able to weed the mafia out fast enough, its an easy town victory.
I think it's fairly obvious that mafia is going to focus experienced players/whoever they suspect has the most powerful role in that case. If mafia won't know who to focus down (who is the most important blue) it would make sense that forcing roleclaims would be an important part of mafia strategy. This is a conclusion that can be drawn from the first part of your post.
Then you ask for a mass role claim. How can we check what everyone does in the night action? You could simply make up a night action that can not be checked and no one can hold you liable. If we are able to weed out the mafia fast enough? Mafia can just claim obvious roles like detective and doctor or wait for other people to roleclaim and say "oh i'm the same role as X". You don't give a strategy to weed out the mafia fast enough (which is an important part of this plan).
On October 29 2010 10:12 Misder wrote: Ok, so this is how I think mafia kp is set up- mafia can hit 2 people normally, just like any regular mafia game. then, there is one mafia member who can infect 1 person with murrayitis.
I'm a bit confused on your earlier post on murrayitis. So is it that once infected, the person dies the next night, kind of like the poison from a poisoner?
This is an easy conclusion to make. However I would say that if mafia don't have the power of spreading M-Rus, they would be interesting in goading the town into believing that was the case.
Misder then puts what I call light pressure on Pandain. It is nonconclusive, it makes sense on both sides of the coin. For town, it is in their interest to know more about their candidates. For mafia, it is in their interest to appear to disagree/oppose their teammates while creating the opportunity for their teammate to defend/fix themselves. They will appear to put pressure on a teammate without actually doing so. Not so important now, very important later as scumhunting increases in intensity.
On October 29 2010 10:43 Misder wrote: So I only heard from DH about the mass roleclaiming idea. To me, I feel that its more advantagious to the town than it is disadvantagious, but I want to hear from more of you guys about it.
I put down the idea, Misder is still convinced at this point it's a good idea.
On October 29 2010 11:02 Misder wrote: Now that I think about it, I'm more unsure about the mass roleclaiming thing I suggested. My main concern is that there isn't a concrete way to confirm anyone. And, as Fishball stated, nothing is preventing the mafia from making roles up that have passive abilities, or claim vigi.
This post comes after several people put it down. The rest of the points he make here are pretty valid.
On October 30 2010 13:23 Misder wrote: Ok, after reading through the thread, I'm leaning towards voting for DrH, and will vote for him as of right now.
1. If DrH is mafia, it will be able to tell. He provides so much about his role that its impossible to retract, or even fit under the role while being mafia. If we believe everything that DrH said, he is able to coordinate town. Although he may not be able to PM, if there is a role that allows for the extension of PMing (masons?), he can coordinate even better. It might even be good that DrH can't PM- everything he does will be done in this thread, and he can be closely examined.
(The only concern I have is that DrH is pretty good at manipulation- but I feel that he won't be able to backtrack what he said, and it will be easy to find inconsistencies in his posts)
2. There may as well be a doctor (or even better, a plague doctor) in the circle to protect him, which will basically provide the same thing as bodyguards. If Fishball is mafia, he already has a lot of power. He can manipulate the circle probably really easily, esp since according to him, the majority is inactive, and if they decide to come back, it is easy for them just to listen to Fishball and do whatever he says. We don't know what Fishball can do. He claims his role is of utmost importance, but isn't able to tell us what that role actually is.
3. I feel that Pandain won't be able to provide anything as mayor. He hasn't put out a plan yet; and probably can't do anything proactive with his role. As people stated earlier, Pandain is transparent. Which is good to check on Pandain, but would be a waste of a Mayor. Hes not the best scum hunter I've ever known... I'll leave it like that. The only reason I'd even consider voting for Pandain is if I was a super afraid person of experienced players that are mafia taking the mayor role.
People I'm concerned with: Coagulation- I don't think I've read a good post by him yet. Glasse- comes out of nowhere, and states that he can't be killed? And tries to take the mayor role? Why would anyone with the role of being not able to be killed want even more protection? Ace- Well, I don't really have anything against him. It's just that I've never seen him play, but I've heard hes good and hes a veteran player- so I'm wary.
Circle Claiming- I don't think the circle should claim to the thread yet; I don't really think I have a reason on this, except that I feel that its risky. If this circle is pure town- its the only form of communication town has that is known right now. Giving mafia the members makes it easy to break the circle up. One thing to consider though- It's very likely that mafia is in this circle, so other mafia will know who is in this circle and what they are talking about. This gives an advantage to the mafia. The mafia knows whos in the circle and the town doesn't, that sets the town really behind because the town won't know who is able to PM etc.
Hopefully this is enough to only have 1 post today (in real life time)...
Naturally I agree with his praise of me there. In this post he parrots concerns town had about Fishball and gves light criticism to Pandain.
Discourages circle claiming which seems really odd in the face that he earlier suggested a mass roleclaim and later tries to get others to roleclaim. He says he doesn't have a reason but that its risky? So if mafia is in the circle, all the mafia know who is in the circle, why wouldn't you want town to know as well? That's withholding information from the town that mafia has. Doesn't help us.
On October 30 2010 15:56 Misder wrote: I'm taking my vote off of DrH and putting it on Fishball. After all the WIFOM talk, theres one more thing to consider. If DrH was mafia, he could claim that he poked another mafia player, who has the ability to detect who follows him. So when the plague doctors go to "confirm" DrH, mafia is getting a list of all of the plague doctors. Fishball seems less dangerous compared to what DrH can do if hes mafia. Fishball has to be able to stay consistent in the PMs in the circle and in the thread, and we will be able to check on him in two ways, especially with his activity level.
Moving his vote to Fishball. Reasonable play and he gives valid reasons for it. his problem with me assumes the existence of a role that could or couldn't exist and it seems like a sort of specific concern because (unlike suicide bombers and other potential roles that have brought concern) I don't recall a role like this in any previous mafia game PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.
On October 31 2010 10:29 Misder wrote: Well, if youngminii survived the lynch... I would say that he needs to roleclaim or we get a dt to check him. If its a blue role that avoids lynching- he needs to say so now and I feel a complete roleclaim is necessary from him. And even if he says hes blue- dt should check him. Him being mafia would probably be a bit OP since then the only way that young could die would be by vig hit or another town KP role (unless he can only avoid lynching once...)- either way, young should be scrutinized.
Fishes for a roleclaim. He qualifies it but this is pretty clear fishing IMO.
On October 31 2010 23:23 Misder wrote: But youngminii knows why he didn't get lynched, right? Wouldn't it be more benefitial to the town if young told us if this was a one time thing or a permanent thing for avoiding a lynch? If he doesn't tell us, town lacks the information, and because of how young has been posting, we may consider another day to lynch him. But that would be a waste of time if young is immune. I'd say young is most likely mafia if he doesn't answer whether or not this was one time or permanent or multiple.
So young, how often can you dodge a lynch (one time, multiple times, permanently, etc.)?
On November 01 2010 01:19 Misder wrote: I'm pretty sure that DC didn't roleclaim bodygaurd. I think his role has something to do with knowing what each role does; at least that was what I got out of it. Maybe he is bodygaurd, but I'm pretty sure DC is smart enough to spoil it to the mafia.
Everyone seems to agree that his claim was a bodyguard softclaim. LSB and Artanis earlier clarified in the thread that no one knows what roles are in this game or what they do, so your conclusion is what would appear to be an impossibility.
On November 01 2010 07:37 Misder wrote: @Ace I didn't try fishing out his entire role. I am just seeing if he knows if he can dodge lynches, and if so how many. I thought it was beneficial to town, as we would understand more of the game mechanics + reason why the young lynch didn't go through + future reference if we decide to lynch young again. That being said, I'm not afraid of being checked. I would almost encourage it.
@Lexpar's post Hmmm... Everyone is negative about this post, and so am I. But maybe its part of his role; or something happened between the two. Pretty much unlikely, as that would mean that his role is able to PM or that his role is shown to the mayor, but its insane mafia. Clarify please, Lexpar,
Tells Ace he isn't fishing and then fishes on Lexpar lol
On November 01 2010 08:29 Node wrote: I'm mostly worried about the presence of a suicide bomber in the game, but I suppose I can't do much else seeing as I'm not in a PM circle.
DCLXVI is going to die tonight.
Is this for certain? Do you know how hes going to die? Is it possible for a doctor or a medic or whatever role its called in this game to protect him so he doesn't die?
These are questions on everyones mind. I have no problem with this.
On November 01 2010 08:49 Misder wrote: So three people died tonight, Remember that one post of Artanis where he said that mafia has 2+1 KP? That must mean that mafia had access to that extra 1 KP. Whether or not that can be accessed every day, we do not know (it might be that they can only have extra every other day or something like that), but maybe we can find out what role that gains that extra 1 KP. I think its the Giant Potato, but its hard to tell in the night post.
On November 01 2010 08:19 infinitestory wrote:
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: During the night, hardly anyone can sleep. It wasn't just all the trick or treaters, everyone was busy doing something.
One poor dude? He arrived at the wrong person’s home (some idiot kidnapped the people) and proceeded to become gagged and tied up. As he staggered around looking for help, another person decided to take his clothes, and replace them with a weird smelling rag. At least other people came and helped him, after prodding him for two hours. That poor guy
Annul decided to stalk his favorite person. However, after he put on his black clothes, black mask, and black gloves. Someone helped him by wrapping a black scarf around his neck. Killing him. Afterwards a completely different person arrived, played on the tire swing for a while, and left.
I'm pretty sure both bolded parts are the describing Annul and his death. So someone switched places with him (kidnapped?). I think we have to be careful of the guy who switched places with him. If we get any references to similar activities between one person and Annul, we can almost gaurantee that that person is mafia.
First paragraph doesn't say much except he thinks the extra KP might have to do with the giant potato. Although why do you think this? Doesn't it seem more likely the extra KP was used on BrownBear considering the special circumtances surrounding his death? especially considering Node's supposed role everything about it seems quite "separate"
On November 01 2010 08:54 Misder wrote: @Node Why were you informed that BB would die so late last cycle, but now you are informed that DXC is going to die so early in this cycle?
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
Again you refer to a mafia role that knows who visited them. Wouldn't that make DXC the mafia since he would be the one being visited?
Obviously there is a correlation between the BB death and DXC death and it's that node was told ahead of time : /
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Brings up the possibility of DXC being mafia which was implied in his last post. However it seems with this post that he is discouraging people from visiting DXC rather than to visit him. If Misder was mafia and DXC was the mafia role (that knows who visited them) that misder has already referenced a few times, this doesn't seem like a logical play to me. This post doesn't come off scummy to me at all.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
The risk that it may be a set up by the mafia (less likely now, discussed later in the post). And that it would be a waste (remember, his role says that DXC is going to die, which implies that there is no way to save him). Note that I wrote my post before I read Node's latest posts. So Node seems to be hinting that there is a list that the mods have that kills people one by one. Quickstriker was first, then BB, then DXC. This seems like a random list, as Quickstricker was inactive and not a target that mafia would want to kill, and BB was pretty inactive too and also not a target that mafia would want to kill. DXC is someone that mafia would want to kill as he softclaimed bodygaurd, but if we follow the pattern, it isn't the mafia that chooses this list. This also implies that Node is town, and isn't setting this up.
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
Everything points to DC being town, except: 1) he softclaimed bodyguard (by correcting Artanis on the definition, no less), when there was no good reason to do so. He then pretty much said it was intentional by saying "Artanis just confirmed my role." There's no good reason to do this as a townie. 2) He softclaimed bodyguard, and a (the only?) bodyguard just died.
His softclaim of bodyguard has yet to be confirmed by him. If he has a reason to do it as a townie I'd like him to tell us. He certainly has explaining to do, as well as Aeres, considering Annul was a bodyguard.
On November 01 2010 09:17 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:08 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 09:01 Misder wrote:
On November 01 2010 08:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 08:53 Glasse wrote: Yea but now that our medics are suspicious of him he could easily waste his life on a single worthless blue(there has to be some stupid roles that don't do anything) for nothing
not very smart
If he isn't suicide bomber he could simply be trying to set the bomber up.
If mafia thinks we aren't going to send blues at the target Node set up then they just kill him confirming his "role". A win/win situation for mafia. Consider this as well: if he is mafia he would obviously know the alignment of every player (who is red and who is blue), keeping the targets he picks who will die that night blue in every case keeping up the illusion that he is predicting mafia hits
this is a very easy role to fake for mafia. too easy really.
since you've already claimed node why not just tell us the name of it?
Adding on to this, it may even be a ploy to get medics (im just gonna call them that from now on) to protect DXC in which somehow the mafia members find out the doctors :/ I suggest that no one protect DXC and we find out tonight what causes his death. Theres got to be a cooralation between BB death and DXC death.
what makes you think that would let us find out what caused his death? that's just an excuse for letting a town player die for the sake of information we might not get
First of all, you don't even know that DXC is town. We don't even know if we can actually protect DXC. Even worse, if mafia set it up so that there is a bomb placed there that night which kills everyone that visits him, that would be detrimental. Ok, maybe we won't be able to determine the cause of the deaths, esp since there are no clues (I forgot about that). But to me, it just seems to risky. We have no info. We suspect that Node could be faking his role. I'm even thinking that the +1 KP comes from a predetermined mafia kill at the start of the day, and that if Node is mafia, he would know about this.
Everything points to DXC being town in this case. No I don't know 100% that he is town. But if Node is telling the truth it seems the people dying are blues, not reds. If Node is a mafia lying about his role it doesn't make sense for them to single out red targets, it doesn't set up a possible play for the mafia in all likelihood (unless there is a mafia role that kills other mafia)
What is risky? Not having DXC die?
The risk that it may be a set up by the mafia (less likely now, discussed later in the post). And that it would be a waste (remember, his role says that DXC is going to die, which implies that there is no way to save him). Note that I wrote my post before I read Node's latest posts. So Node seems to be hinting that there is a list that the mods have that kills people one by one. Quickstriker was first, then BB, then DXC. This seems like a random list, as Quickstricker was inactive and not a target that mafia would want to kill, and BB was pretty inactive too and also not a target that mafia would want to kill. DXC is someone that mafia would want to kill as he softclaimed bodygaurd, but if we follow the pattern, it isn't the mafia that chooses this list. This also implies that Node is town, and isn't setting this up.
I feel that he is likely town. Considering the potential danger of his role if he is mafia it's best to keep an eye on his posts closely, but I don't have any strong suspicions about him and I think his response to my initial proposition of the possibility that he could be mafia was fairly strong.
It could be an RNG'd list but I feel like it might be some sort of conditional kill. BrownBear's death said "he died for being good" that seems important to me and makes it seem unlikely that he was killed purely randomly.
About the list- how can it be conditional? If everything Node says is true... then BB was "next in line". Unless its based on # of posts or when they post, then the mods wouldn't have been able to choose the next target on the list cause they can't predict the future actions.
Assuming its a list. I already responded to this post specifically and I don't want to be redundant here.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
This is not unlikely. Mafia knew that DH was going to try to confirm himself tonight by night action. So if there is a roleblocker in the game, mafia would probably make the easy decision to block him. On the other hand, DH is still not confirmed...
Pretty obvious stuff, doesn't bring anything new to the table. Doesn't come off as either scum or town to me.
On November 01 2010 09:27 Lexpar wrote: I think that because I'm alive. I am therefore I think?
We can trust DocH. We should work with him.
Any reason for this? DH, do you know the role of Lexpar?
Possible attempt to see if I can reveal Lexpars role which he fished for earlier.
Conclusion: Aside from the role fishing and occasional inconsistency nothing jumps off the play as particularly scummy. He makes some good points and arguments and is posting pretty reasonably and hasn't attacked anybody in particular or made a strong attempt to make anybody look bad. The only other thing that made me feel uncomfortable was the fact that he brought up this specific mafia role that may or may not exist several times and centered a few of his arguments around it.
I don't feel that Misder is definitely mafia but the dude needs to stop trying to get people to roleclaim. Due to the fishing, Misder definitely needs to be watched. I don't want to put the FoS on you but maybe the Eye of Suspicion or in laymans terms "I'm watching you, bro."
Pandain I never ever changed what I said my role could do. I don't know what you're talking about but just from scanning over your post I can tell it's all bullshit. I'll get into specifics in a moment.
I would like to point out that some people are not voting for Aeres "JUST BECAUSE HE LIED" and that I showed where the myth that his "plan was protown" arised because I trapped him in his lie without really realizing it. I think Aeres is not only a liar, I think he is scum.
Also it's very scummy to say "lets vote this person to get the most information"
Mafia draw up fake allegiances/alliances in the game then say "hey lets kill one of these people cuz it'll tell us SOOOO much about theothers" when in reality it's just a lot of WIFOM smoke and mirrors
On November 03 2010 04:45 NB wrote: i just woke up... god panda sure hate Dr.H xD
I hate scum. Now can we please change from Aeres to Dr. H, Aeres barely has anything on him besides the fact he lied, and plainly I don't see why he would lie if mafia. What tangible gain would there be besides possibly having medics protect other people? But we know that didn't happen because mafia didn't take advantage of that and end up shooting the bodyguards/dsxcii(since they would know aeres was fake) and dr. h.
Sorry, but LAL policy does not work if the lie itself does not make sense from a mafia perspective.
While I agree with this posts, and some of the points you made, I disagree that lynching our mayor on day2 is a smart idea. Can we at least give him one more night? Maybe he'll make something of his role, he'll get some sort of confirmation, etc.
He is one of the FEW who has claimed, so he should be easier to confirm/bury than the rest, don't you agree?
It just seems unreasonable for me to lynch the mayor after one day of ruling, that is all. Please let me know what we have to lose if we give him one more night/day to perhaps clear his name?
1.If there is a roleblocker, they'll just keep on roleblocking him. unless they cant roleblock twice in a row 2.If there's not(or if he is mafia), then he can just continue to claim he is/claim the other person is lying. that assumes i made my role up. i already explained why this is a ridiculous assumption. stop making me say the same obvious things over and over again to prove you wrong He's claimed like, two different things that he says his role can do, but says they can't now.no i didn't And I also disagree that just because he's mayor we shouldn't lynch him, on the contrary, mafia having two votes is a bane for the town. assuming i am mafia which you seem to have done
You say he probably just made an honest mistake? what makes you believe this? I feel I've pointed out a huge inconsistency in Aeres' defense and everyone seems to be ignoring it.
Is the inconsistency where Aeres says he hopes that DC isn't the body guard? This makes sense, he assumes DC soft claimed (so did a lot of other people) so he decides to fake claim to draw a hit. Then he says he hopes DC wasn't the body guard after all and that the real second body guard is hidden. This makes sense, under his false claim he's trying to trick the mafia further by adding a third person into the body guard mix. This all made sense from his perspective when I try and put myself in his shoes it seems like a logical strategy.
Regarding Pandains post; I don't think we should lynch Doc H tonight, he's still to valuable if he's telling the truth. We need to lynch either Aeres or YM, I've already stated I think YM should be lynched because I think he's more likely to be scum but if we lynch Aeres and he flips town then it tells us just about the same thing as a YM lynch: we need to look at Doc H.
If YM is blue or Aeres is red then I'm completely lost
If, if, if IF! I don't see how everyone can be so oblivious to how transparent Dr. H has been. or how transparent you have been in your attempts to make me look bad IF he's telling the truth, then he'll never be able to confirm it since mafia will keep roleblocking him. why do you assume the mafia have infinite roleblocks? you've made a lot of assumptions about powers mafia have throughout this game that a townie would have NO way of knowing for sure. THAT's suspicious.The only way we could get him to confirm is if mafia does not have roleblocker and Jcarl lied, but I find that highly unlikely. or there was another role that blocked what I had done such as a bus/redirector/commuter/hider
And I disagree with Dr. H being lynched not telling us about other people. It gives us insight about YM and Aeres no it doesn't, it's all WIFOM smoke and mirrors. If I'm mafia Aeres could be a bus. Both YM and Aeres defended me and Aeres defended me more, who's more suspicious in this case? Neither., and in addition we can't lynch YM(I'm pretty sure he has a role which means he can't be lynched.)you're prettttty sure? lol bullshit. he could be unlynchable (which typically works once), judas, or saulus, or a new insane role that artanis invented. worthless speculation and another possible soft fish for a roleclaim.
On November 03 2010 04:26 Pandain wrote: An Analysis of Dr. H: or Wtf Why Must You Post So Much
Summary: Dr. H has liedno, deceivedno, and misled the townno. If anyone really wants to, I can go on, but just by seeing the first couple hundred posts it should be obvious how scummy Dr. H isok please make ur case lol. In addition, just noting right now, the fact that there are bandwagons going on which I believe have been started by mafia to hide the fact that Dr. H screwed up hard. Dr. H has lied about his roleno i didn't ;o, given false facts, contradicted himself countless times, and wasted by 2000th postAppeal to Emotion :3.
Basically, we can see some main thing which indicate he's scum. 1. He's lied about his role, and aspects regarding it For example, we see he constantly has said things about his role which obviously he now says he cannot do. For instance: + Show Spoiler +
On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have.
having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game
Well we don't even know if this circle actually exists. I suspect it does, but until someone else within the circle steps forward, we won't know for sure.
if the circle doesn't exist, we lynch fishball. it's that simple.
we rolecheck those who claim to be in the circle.
now imagine these scenarios: neutral circle, 5 town aligned players 1 mafia players neutral circle 6 town aligned players neutral circle 3 town aligned players, 3 mafia players
from a meta/balance standpoint i find it highly unlikely that mafia outnumber/equal people in this circle. lets say you are the 1 mafia (maybe there are 2) in this scenario. your best move is to come out, post a pm from the circle, and prove it exists
the dt rolechecks you, you flip scum, this incriminates fishball who is blue.
that's why we need everyone in the circle to come out and claim it now. prove it through fishball, who will post his PM correspondence with you. talk about something related to the game (an off topic pm can be sent by any player to any player without fear of modkill) and post it ITT
if the circle is a fake by scum, we'll win the game by forcing all scum to claim or at least get an easy lynch on fishball
if the circle is what fishball claims it to be, then we have a protected member who can communicate outside of the game thread with other players (including mafia) and appears to have an important secondary role. since he is protected by bodyguards, he should claim that role as soon as he is elected and plague doctors should protect him.
How do you identify the one mafia player in a group of 6? You're ignoring the odds in this scenario. Or is there something I'm missing? I'm still not cool with role claiming. It's going to create headaches to sift through countless and infinite role possibilities. It will clutter this thread with nonsense finger-pointing.
If anything claiming to Fishball is safer, so then he can direct actions. The town as a whole doesn't need to know what everyone's roles are. Only Fishball needs to know, which then I would see a valid reason for Fishball to take the mayor position. This doesn't "confirm" Fishball, but we would then have to take the risk of electing a possible mafioso. We will know if things aren't looking right by Day 3/4 anyway.
ANd as someone already said, Fishball has something we can trace back. He is now accountable for the actions of this "PM Group," if one exists. I need more convincing before I throw a vote on him though.
i'm not cool with roleclaiming either, but people in this group should come out. it is otherwise too easy for fishball to lie about this. if we know who is in the circle, we know who has out of game information, we know who to keep an eye on as town.
if there are mafia in that circle they will have to play twice as good as they would normally have to play. if the whole circle is mafia, faking it to save fishball, we will likely dominate them and win the game easily
do you get where I'm going with this? even if there is only 1 mafia in the circle, we at least confirm there is a circle with townies in it and that is useful information for us. it's not necessarily about finding and killing mafia (it would be lovely, in fact i hope it's all a mafia lie), but it's a win/win scenario for town no matter what happens.
Dr.H, I don't understand you.
You were in full support of Fishball, because the opportunities that can arise from this alleged circle are great. Even in this post, you are supporting the possibilities of the usefulness of this circle. But then you change your vote to Pandain? Why?
Right now, I feel like Fishball is a good candidate. I think the benefits of having him in the circle could very well outweigh the negatives of having a Mayor who can talk in private. However, I will not give him my vote until someone else from the circle steps forward.
because mayor can't be rolechecked thats why im not voting for fishball but i can further confirm the possibility that he is town in the night (my role is sorta complex and im just figuring out all of its applications) and i'm considering changing back and putting more pressure on the pandainwagon
Alright. Stop here. Look at the bolded quote. He says he can confirm someone is town, yet from what he claims now his role cannot do that at all. No I didn't say I can confirm he is town. I said I can "further confirm the possibility". You are so good at twisting what I say Pandain, it's almost like you're trying to do it ;o. I figured that if Fishball was in a PM circle with a mafia he would be an ideal M-rus target. If I my confirmation failed and he instead came back as having M-Rus, I would feel comfortable saying he was a town player. In fact it's now pretty likely that anyone infected with M-rus is more likely town than they are mafia, so I was and have been under the impression that some of the information I get from my role could point toward a persons alignment.
On October 30 2010 04:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i remembered incorrectly about youngminii
he bandwagoned fishball NOT bumatlarge
this makes more sense, why would a scumbuddy come to the fake rescue of someone who isn't scum. that gives me more to think about. I'd really really really like a DT to rolecheck fishball. I can only kinda determine whether they may or may not be town and even then it ends up in a bit of a WIFOM situation.
the reason i feel weird about pandain is because his election reminds me a lot of the time when i was elected as scum mayor in my first mafia game and the way its going is very similar to that.
i wish there were more than 2 legitimate candidates that both come off as suspicious to me.
now that youngminii was voting for fishball, I'm less sure. I know youngminii in haunted mafia when he was vampire, he was a smart guy and always explained what he said in vampire chat. he's not the kind who would just say meaningless bullshit if he was town imo
Back tracks on his statement he can confirm if he's town, but still says he can, in some way. Dr. H, this is very suscipcious. Everyone please look at what pandain is doing. I said before "I can further confirm the POSSIBILITY fishball is town, and now I'm saying basically the same thing. I qualified both statements. Pandain has invented a lie here and if you can read a 3rd grade level or higher it is quite obvious.
On October 30 2010 04:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: my power is actually really simple but the applications of it are complex and I'm finding them out as I think and play more
at first i was like "wtf am i gonna do with this power it sucks"
Couldn't you just ask artanis....I did and he said he can't advise me on how to use the role and I needed to figure it out myself.
On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.)
Whoashit, this changes EVERYTHING. I'm very curious as to what you mean by not needing a Plague Doctor... some sort of immunity to Murrayitis? Or perhaps you're Mafia, and your role is to spread the virus... On the other hand, your posts so far do point you out as a townie, and your experience in past games does lend you the sort of aura of command I think a Mayor needs.
I'll ponder this some more.
i will tell everyone exactly what my role is and what it does and then I will confirm my role to someone who has been rolechecked who can then confirm it in the thread
that's all very confusing
but basically as soon as I am elected I will prove I am not mafia or you can lynch me.
How are you going to find and recruit a Detective role, and convince him to cooperate? I mean, we're all pretty much in the dark here, so unless a Detective acts of his own accord, I don't see how you'd find one to help, short of being in Fishball's circle (assuming it exists at all).
On October 30 2010 04:55 annul wrote: i havent thought of who i would lynch because there hasnt been any traction for my candidacy yet
but i think mayor candidates shouldnt reveal this anyway because if they would go after a mafia, it may incentivize other mafia to vote against them or to not vote for them when they otherwise would
I admit, I didn't think of this. Good point, Annul. I won't press the issue any further.
This is true.
But I can confirm that I am the role I say I am. The only problem is confirming it to the right person.
Alright, but you've already said wrong things about what you say your role is, and so far we don't know if you can even really confirm your role. Like what? You haven't pointed out any of those things so far pandain...
On October 30 2010 07:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: there is a second way i can confirm my role
if i somehow miss my confirmation, i can confirm it indirectly as well. and i will always get a second chance the next night to directly confirm it.
AND WHAT THE FRICK IS THIS WAY? I want this answered now, Dr. H Oh it's pretty simple. If my confirmation doesn't go through and I am told the person has M-Rus then I can instruct plague doctors to cure that person. I can then indirectly confirm, through plague doctors, that my ability can discern who has M-Rus or not.
On October 30 2010 06:56 Amber[LighT] wrote: DrH I'm willing to throw my vote on you if you're going to seriously get the town organized. I am not confident about the FB vote and I still feel comfortable about Pandain, but if you really want the mayoral power I'll support you. You're the only person that's putting forth the effort to organize a strategic plan past the first night.
here is my basic plan for organization:
1. at night i can confirm to one player that I am who I say I am.
2. that player confirms to the town my role
3. hopefully masons will induct me into the circle
4. with my power i can help coordinate other roles, I don't want to say too much as to how right now.
There are only two scenarios in which the 1st step can fail. They are very very very very very very unlikely. If the person I confirm to is mafia, they can just lie and say I didn't confirm to them or never bring it up.
Mafia will be forced to confirm that I am blue, or I'll out them for lying.
I can be much more specific when I'm sure I can not be killed at night.
Points out that his plan could fail if one of these happen, but say they're very unlikely. Yet now he's bringing it up as defense. Also, I thought he said his role can confirm another players role, didn't I point that out? No i didn't say that but you did point it out very aggressively
On October 30 2010 07:08 Coagulation wrote: How do we know the person who is "verifying" your confirmation of your role isnt just a Scumbuddy of yours?
well they would be ideal for a rolecheck
this would be incredibly dangerous play as mafia to out my scumbuddies as the game progresses. every time i confirm to someone i will be claiming it.
it is possible the person i can confirm to is a mafia, i have no way of knowing someones alignment. but look at this play from the perspective of me being mafia and it really makes no sense. I'm going to out all of my mafia compatriots just to win the mayor position?
you'll see very soon that the information I'm providing will be beneficial to the town and we'll see real results in numbers.
I'm putting my head on a plate for you guys if I turn out to be a liar. I can back this up.
Notice a trend that Dr. H is doing. He claims he can be confirmed, leaves an out, yet the fact remains that he's constantly saying that he's almost certainly going to be confirmed, that he even laters says he is 100% confirmed, and even uses the old "trust me, If I'm lying lynch me." Yet we've now caught him as lying, and what do people do? They hop on another bandwagon!
this is still quite early in the game when I hadn't yet fully considered the possibility that my role could be insane. you haven't caught my lying yet tho, keep trying to invent lies. it's workin for you REAL well so far.
On October 30 2010 07:10 Coagulation wrote: Maybe Godfather Will verify so no one can DT check him properly thats possible right?
of course it's possible
but look at this play in the terms of the game overall. think for a minute that I am mafia. I would essentially be outing my entire team to the town over the course of the game.
Wrong if your lying about your role/do not have the role at all. And we've already pointed out you've lied about your role....no you didn't point it out. Maybe we should lynch you for lying about me lying? LAL right?
On October 30 2010 07:10 Node wrote: DrH, you forgot another scenario in which the first step would fail. If you're mafia, you could just ask a buddy, or hell, the Godfather (presuming he exists) to confirm your role. He posts and the townies are none the wiser. The mafia gets inducted into every circle there is and is put in a position of power.
I'm not sold, yet.
there are other things to my power that will prove beyond any doubt that I am a pro-town player. they may not take affect immediately but everything will be quite clear when I am elected and roleclaim
Which is.....? Back up your claims, dr. h The plague doctor thing I mentioned earlier. I said later when I fully roleclaimed that the mafia would have no incentive for a role that stops M-Rus from spreading, still quite sensible don't you think?
On October 30 2010 07:17 jcarlsoniv wrote: Well, I see it this way. Dr.H has no reason to give us the names of another Mafia member just to get the Mayor position. I mean, sure, it's a nice position, but worth losing teammates over? Not sure...
There aren't 22 scum like there were in Haunted, there are many fewer (I forget exactly how many). This means that every time a mafia member dies, it is a bigger hit this game.
I hope there wouldn't be more than one shape-shifting role in the mafia.
One question though: Does the Godfather get chosen Day1 or Night1?
If Godfather gets chosen Night1, then Dr.H couldn't possibly be shapeshifting now. Also, since he is roleclaiming immediately after being elected, it wouldn't give the Mafia enough time to have a Godfather, so even if he's Mafia, the person he would be claiming to wouldn't be shapeshifting yet. Or something to that effect...
Godfather would be chosen on the first day I believe
I have a small chance of confirming myself to a mafia. Mafia can then come out, get rolechecked, and sacrifice themselves to kill me
So in the freak scenario that this happens I would plead town to wait a day before lynching me. Not to mention it could be the miller as well.
There are other things to my role that will confirm me as town but I want to make a disclaimer, I have no way of knowing what other players roles are (I certainly don't have DT powers) so I have as much chance as anyone of acting upon mafia.
Since I really think it's obvious he's mafia, I'm just going to start going on that assumption,and why everything he does makes sense if he is mafia. Of course, I will still be pointing out errors and fallacies but time to set gear into overdrive. lol I don't even know what to say abou thow ridiculous you are. This whole post of yours is so scummy pandain that it hurts but you are also one of the worst scumhunters in the game so I can't really be sure.
Alright, so now he says his role cannot tell what another person's role is, says there are other things that can confirm him(yet says nothing else besides the fact he claims he can confirm himself, yet hasn't.) Right, it can't necessarily tell since it is possible later mafia will be infected with M-rus, but I said there was a possibility my role could help confirm a player as being LIKELY pro-town. Never said I could do anything like rolecheck.
On October 30 2010 08:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote: why would you vote for someone who can't confirm themselves as town aligned?
If I'm not elected, I will likely be protected by a medic. I'm not that worried about dying tonight if I lose the election.
what is your reason not to vote for me, because I'll die if I'm not elected? my role is really only useful if it's known to the town anyway. the most useful ability is to confirm myself as town to other players, it's ideal that a player with this role would be mayor.
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Why did we elect someone who can't confirm themselves as town aligned. Unfortunately, we did leave out the possibility of a roleblocker, but again, the fact he should have been thinking about that and the fact we don't know the roles I'm suscipcious of the "Well, maybe there's a roleblocker" excuse. I can, jesus christ my role still works but there are ways it can be interfered me. I dropped the 100% thing when I considered my role more fully as well as the possibility of insanity.
I should have considered a roleblocker? I did but didn't want the mafia to know I was scared of it. If I should have conisdered it so should EVERYONE when I roleclaimed. In fact I'm surprised no one brought it up.
On October 30 2010 08:14 Ace wrote: Where did I tell you how to use your role? If I did that isn't my intention. I really don't care about your role, I'm more interested in your ability as a scum hunter. So far you haven't shown the ability to think beyond 1 step of a plan so you don't seem worth it as a Mayoral candidate.
What makes you think I haven't planned out how to use my role throughout the game?
You're telling me to stay quiet and then come out tomorrow with what needs to be said.
I'm offering coordination to the town with guaranteed protection. If you don't think thats better than what pandain is offering (nothing) then I don't really know what to say.
What lack of foresight? My plans are long-term plans on how I will use my role to benefit the town. The first step is confirming my identity, the second step is using my powers to coordinate the town in a way that is crucial to our survival and victory.
I've put the finger of suspicion on more players than you. Coagulation, youngminii, you haven't really done much in the way of scumhunting either. Mind telling me who you think is scum, if anybody?
While scumhunting is important to me, being mayor will without a doubt maximize the effectiveness of my role and give the town coordination it needs in this game. It's pretty simple.
Well for one, just seeing what happened tonight makes me think if you are town you didn't think everything through. And I'm still confused on how being mayor maximizes your effectiveness if your town, I mean, you can still do everything the same. Basically, you can confirm yourself as town, and that's it. But even that is in question.
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise.
I can't fathom any way you can do this that doesn't involve the possibility of you just getting your mafia buddies to help you do whatever it is you say you can do
I dont like the idea of just picking someone for what they say they are able to be or capable of. I'm more inclined to go with someone who has shown they can actually be useful instead of spewing confirmability.
Whatever it is you say you can do to confirm yourself i have no doubt the host put in something to make it possible to compromise the integrity of your claim. It's silly that you could try to be concrete on something so unknown to anyone.
I would rather have someone leading with clearly good intentions and capable of doing something instead of saying well guys i can be confirmed, cause once someone gets elected the spot lights so heavy it's ridiculous anyway
My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts.
Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked.
Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen)
If I were mafia using mafia to fake my confirmation ability. This means I have to consistently out scumbuddies for the entirety of the game just to stay alive. And for what? Immunity to nightkills that won't happen since I'd be mafia in the first place?
Mafia benefit from being mayor isn't big enough in a normal game to do a play like this, much less in a game like this where the mayors power is severely reduced.
What am I offering beyond my role? Simply put the town can trust me. I've put myself in a do or die situation and I'm more than prepared to back up what I'm offering. I can offer immense coordination that is OPEN to the town. I won't jump on poor mafia bandwagons. I'm not running on the basis of being a mayor that will do whatever the town (i.e mafia) tells him to do. I'll try my best to cut through the bullshit and use my votes the right way.
So, now we know you were lying nopeabout the second way to confirm yourself. And how could you confirm another player. There are so many things you've claimed about your role which now are being pushed aside. And now your saying mafia doesn't have anything to gain from trying to get mayor when previously you said it's valuable. It's valuable. I'm not saying Mafia has NOTHING to gain. I'm merely saying we should not operate under the assumption that mafia HAD to have a major candidate. It is possible myself, fishball, bumatlarge, and you are ALL town aligned players although your recent posts make me doubt that.'
Words like possible, maybe, consider, etc. qualify my statements. Never said mafia wouldn't want mayor. I could see why mafia would NOT want the position particularly after Artanis said rolechecks would still discern a mafia mayors alignment and the fact that no one dropped out after that struck me as odd. I was hoping someone would since it would be a nice trap.
So this is the section where you pointed out my lies specifically about my role right? funny there were no lies to point out in it. Maybe you hoped no one would read this and would just assume you found a buncha my lies?
2.He contradicts himself/lies.
There are numerous examples of him either backtracking on stuff or just lying/misleading. nice that you've yet to point out oneNote many times he tries to lie/mislead/deceive, and if called out on it he will back downif by back down you mean explain myself?. Yet if no one does, he continues driving it home, embellishing it further and further and trying to establish it as fact. Even without taking into account the time's he's lied/contradicted himself on his role let's see some posts by him:
On October 29 2010 07:43 CubEdIn wrote: And what happens if we elect a mayor and he's mafia?
See, I only played haunted before, so I'm only getting used to the basics, but this one seems pretty crazy, so what guarantee is that we elect a good mayor with little to no information about him/her?
Also, do we know of anyone who is definitely blue?
having a mafia as mayor is a blessing and curse for the mafia
the extra vote power (which im guessing mayor has in this game) is super useful late game but mayor also has a lot of extra scrutiny on him which means he has to play very well.
First real post this game. Right off the bat I notice this is different from what he's saying now, which is mayor is not useful for mafia and they wouldn't want to have it. Contradiction is noted, but opinions can change. Moving on... ROFL. I never said that. I NEVER SAID MAFIA DON'T WANT MAYOR. I said it makes sense if they wouldn't want it and people should not operate under teh assumption that they do. THAT IS 100% CONSISTENT WITH MY FIRST POST. wow dude.
On October 29 2010 14:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: lying can be advantageous if you're town
as long as you do it smartly
Yet now he accuses Aeres? Despite the fact Aeres actually was pretty smart in what he did? wtf is this. I think Aeres is scum, that's why I'm voting for him. He wasn't smart, he fell into a scumtrap I didn't evenr ealize I set.
On October 30 2010 04:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: even if fishball isn't elected, we should go through with my gambit
that is if no one else from the circle claims at the end of the day, we lynch fishball. everyone who claims gets rolechecked to make sure it isn't a big mafia trick.
if it is a big mafia trick: we win the game, easy as that.
if the mafia ditch fishball: first day mafia kill, woo!
the only troubling scenario is where only the few mafia in the group come forward or say, the mafia in the group get rolechecked first, then we start killing the townies in the circle.
I think maybe electing Fishball might be a bad idea since he is then unable to be rolechecked. Mafia doesn't want to kill people in the circle, since if they are in it, they want to manipulate the information as much as possible.
also I suggest a plague doctor does not visit the mayor tonight. that is for reasons I can not tell you.
I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player
Very anti town as well. First of all, he says we should check everyone who claims, when we would only have to check one. If it's mafia, then we know it's a lie/ we can check another person who claims. If not, THEN we lynch Fishball. But if we reveal a town, then we can stop, as he would be telling the truth. It's a sensible play, and it helps us determine if his circle is real or a mafia lie. If one town player confirms he is in the PM circle and is rolechecked, then the circle is real. IT's that simple.I don't see why Dr. H would be saying we should do this. And also his reason of not electing fishball: "he's unable to be rolechecked." before I knew mayors could be rolechecked.Isn't that true for everyone? it isn't true for anyone really
Finally he says he suggests a PD not visit mayor. Why is this, dr. H? either because I was running/going to run at this point and I didn't want a PD to visit me since I'm immune. I wasn't planning on fully roleclaiming until I was grilled for my campaign anyway.
Also, he has started to say in here he is wary of me because of a supposed bandwagon on me. Sadly, I did not look into this enough. Let's analyze the facts: 1.He claims there is a bandwagon on me. This implies two things: 1.There is a group of people who just bandwagoned on voting me. 2. They give little to no reason Both of these are outright lies. Like 5 people voted for me OVER THE COURSE OF 18 HOURS OR SO. And dr. H even voted for me! Finally, he claims they gave no reasons. Hmm... let's look at these posts coagmeepak
node also but I lost the exact link. -,-. So 3/5 gave at the very least a decent reason. So basically he accused me based on the fact two people didn't explain their votes fully enough. Can't believe I didn't notice this... bad/empty reasons. most of the people who voted for you voted for you because youw eren't me or fishball.
On October 30 2010 08:07 Coagulation wrote: Because hes not trying really really super hard to be mayor i figure hes just a good honest townie offering to take the spot and do his best.
you guys are gonna start tearing each other to shreds over the role makes me think you got something else going on.
yet he has a huge bandwagon
you are really intent on making me look bad in this game aren't you. too bad you have no good reasons for it
Again says I have a huge bandwagon, when I do not. Also coag has been bringing up good points on dr. h.
On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.)
So, your running for mayor because your "clearly town aligned"(hmm... look at this post so far). You say your a huge target from mafia, yet also say so is fishball, and both of you would have to be rolechecked(actually can't -.-)hey look ! pandain lied! mayors can be rolechecked and it works! did you not know that or did you just forget?. So you really have no reasons other than you would later reveal you can be confirmed, but that's in high question right now.
On October 30 2010 06:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote: actually it's pretty bad for town to have fewer candidates
Its even worse when several blues run claiming they are important..... since that means they're either mafia or going to get sniped off.
everyone is a blue in this game lol
i'm the only candidate aside from node who is claiming to offer 100% proof that I am not mafia when I'm elected, just saying
you have offered nothing yet have a huge bandwagon behind you for whatever reason
1.No bandwagon. And 2 people not explaining enough is not a "huge bandwagon." 2.Yeah, 'bout that 100% proof. early in the game before I really considered all the ways my role could go wrong OR that it was insane.
On October 30 2010 07:27 Coagulation wrote: DocH You basically said YOU WILL PROVE your town and then basically said "MAYBE DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS I WILL PROVE IT IM NOT SURE"
I dont think pandain would be the greatest mayor However i would rather pandain then Annul and his manipulation if he is RED and i would rather pandain then fishbowl and his "EXTREMELY SHY?? circle" I would really really like for you to make me feel comfortable voting for you for mayor. but your doing a bad job so far.
let me put it this way
there is a 1/39 chance i will fail in confirming my role to the town
there are multiple ways i can prove my identity over the course of the day. so you would rather vote pandain who offers nothing? you're doing a bad job at discrediting me. considering that mafia are probably shitting their pants over the idea of a confirmed townie with great coordination powers become immune to nightkills I'm not surprised someone is trying their best
FoS
And these other ways of confirming your self are? explained earlier when you tried to call me a liar for saying this. And I did offer stuff, I just don't outright claim it because there's a good chance I wouldn't be elected, and I don't want mafia to have any more information about me than neccesary. that is fair.
On October 30 2010 08:42 LunarDestiny wrote: when you quote, please quote the time too.
Those two posts have a big time difference between them.
but that wouldn't make me look scummy so what's the point right?
Four hour difference. Not exactly way way back if you ask me.
I'm just pointing out that you say there is no reason someone should vote Pandain, yet hours earlier you voted Pandain and gave a reason.
which i then discarded as bad when i changed my mind
4 hours is a lot of time in this game. I voted for Pandain because I felt wary about Fishball and at the time there was really no other viable candidate, since I thought bumatlarge was out of the race. If I didn't think that I would have gladly voted for bum instead. by viable I meant major, as in the only other candidate with a significant number of votes. I felt your campaign was the weakest and still do. Every candidate gave some information about their role that could be checked EXCEPT you who also ran on the fact that you could immediately but indirectly confirm yourself to town. Later when I called you out on this you said you could maybe do it in 2-3 cycles.
I decided then the best thing to do would be to run myself and have since grown increasingly more suspicious of pandain based on the actions of his supporters who have thus far given little to no reason to vote for him
1.No person voted for me again after you did, meaning that couldn't have changed your mind there. 2.You say I'm a viable canidate, yet now say I offer nothing.
On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote: so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!
you really think i could be mafia?
do you understand how outrageously fucking stupid I would be to play like this as mafia? not only would i have to consistently out my scumbuddies throughout the course of the game to the entire town but I would have to fake a beneficial blue role that I promised already shows real numerical results that cannot be faked
I am tying the noose around my neck to be hanged if I am lying.
How can you call me a shitty towny if I've never been a towny and you don't even suspect I'm townie in this game. Hilarious post.
Every time he says to lynch him if he's lying just makes me cringe. Because now we're at an impasse where he can just continously say "just wait one more night" while he leads us around bandwagoning people who I think are innocent.
On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor.
Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me.
Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that?
On October 30 2010 09:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: There are a few things you didn't respond to ace that I'd like you to revisit.
specifically this
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? '
I responded to the bolded already.
I'm voting for bumatlarge because I don't see any negatives with him. With you and Fishball I do. I've also already explained about Pandain.
It just seemed out of place that you would bring up fishballs candidacy as a point against me when you're against him as well, rather than asking why people should vote for me over bumatlarge instead
On October 30 2010 09:13 Ace wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor.
Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me.
Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that?
Because people don't have to believe your going to do what you say? I think you're better off trying to show us from another angle why you need to be Mayor. With you and Fishball both saying you have to be mayor because of your role it's actually killing your chances imo.
So what's my plan then, assume for a minute I'm scum. To lie about proving I'm town, get elected, use the 1 lynch, and then die for the lie? Sacrifice myself for a single kill?
1.) That wasn't being used as a point against you. I was talking about you, Fishball and Pandain as the remaining candidates who didn't have my vote. Nothing to do with bumatlarge.
2.) If you're Scum, get Mayor, lynch someone - how do you die? I don't know what roles are in the game and neither does anyone else. The name of the game is INSANE Mafia. Maybe you're scum with a role that can do something and look Pro-Town? I don't know and honestly, even if I did know the roles in the game that doesn't mean I'm going to take you at your word. There have been plenty of games where Scum says they promise to do something, like oh kill themselves and then WALLA! Something else happens, the Scum spin it to show that there is a better idea and the Scummy Martyr goes free. I'm not in the business on playing for promises.
I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia.
Would you prefer I simply roleclaim now?
Please, can we finally make him stand up to his word? I've called him out so many time's he's contradicted himself, lied, or greatly misled. yet not catching a single lie, just a lot of bullshit to make me look bad. COOL.
3. Has played anti town.
He has continously played as if scum, leading town by his own hands. He claims to have lynched YM, then sinq is lynched, and he defends YM. I did lynch YM, the night post kinda confirms it. It's not a "claim" it's a fact lol He claims to be able to be 100% confirmed,I dropped this claim and later retracted it jesus christ stop bringing this up. yet now there is no way of knowing whether he is town or not and now he claims he knew he wouldn't be, but he was lying/not telling "for the good of town." I'm sorry, soaking up a POTENTIAL ROLEBLOCKER WHICH MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST is not a good reason to run on a campaign. Dr. H. that wasn't my reason. I can still confirm my role to people. that's my power. Either you believe I am soaking up roleblocked or I am a mafia that made my role up. Please just tell me I made up my role so I can vote for you as scum in confidence. He has fished, given poor reasoning, and I'm sure I would find more evidence but believe I have found enough in his first 100-200 posts. If anyone really isn't convinced, I will submit more evidence, albeit relunctantly. Let's see:
On October 29 2010 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: im assuming mayor has bodyguards
mayor should be an experienced player since mafia will try to hit experienced players first.
Yes they will. I like and don't like this post at the same time. On one side, he's neglecting a very important and perhaps the most important aspect of being mayor: being protected as long as you have a bodyguard, which is really useful for important blue roles. On the other hand, it is a good point to protect expierenced players, albeit I am obviously cautious since he later ran for mayor. Part of my conspiracy portion of the brain thinks he was just setting up for him claiming, but that cannot be proven one way or the other. Next reading too much into that.
On October 29 2010 09:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: don't vote for jcarlsoniv he's inexperienced and mostly inactive, not good
orgolove is bad and shouldn't be mayor either
mayor should be an experienced player so we have an experienced player that is protected. medics should also protect our most experienced/best players (ace, bumatlarge, brownbear, infundibulum, etc.)
i'm voting for bumatlarge since he's the best one running currently
Onoes more conspiracy in mah brain. I agree Jcarl shouldn't be mayor for those reasons, for orgolove he doesn't really give any explanations so that makes me cautious....(but perhaps true, I don't want to be mean :p). Again says we should protect expierenced players. I'm going to note this, he's basically saying perhaps the most important aspect of mayor that should function in this town is in its aspect to help expierenced players. This is true, albeit I'm unsure of whether that should be the most important. It seems logical to me that mafia would shoot an inexpierenced Mafia-revealer(best role ever) vs. an expierenced townie. I'm saying one of the qualifications is that mayor should be experienced, that's it.
On October 30 2010 04:14 kitaman27 wrote: Hey all, sorry I'm late. Just got off my flight from Liquidvania. You wouldn't believe the lines. People must be dying to get out of there (sorry I couldn't resist.)
I haven't decided who to vote for as Mayor yet, but I do have two requests.
First off, I would like to see an additional person claim from this "secret 6 person circle". If it exists, odds are incredibly likely that a mafia member is one of the members. If that's the case, then the mafia already knows the identities of all six members. So what harm is there to come forth to the town identifying yourself?
Secondly, I would like to hear how the Mayor plans to use their first day lynch. Will it be based on the majority opinion of the town, a suspicious set of posts during the first 48 hours, or a power player you are intimidated by? Do you already have an idea of who you want to use it on? In order for a candidate to receive my vote, I require they address this issue.
Good luck all ^_^
not just an additional person, everyone in the circle should claim. mafia doesn't have incentive to kill them for it so it's all good.
NO! BAD! This is a very anti town move. Pms were, and even with 3 of Fishball's member's dying, are one of the greatest things town has right now. Why? Town circle, obviously. Telling everyone to claim just allows mafia to snipe people off, while giving town really no useful info when just one person claiming would have the same result. this is very suscipcious. No it's not. Assuming there is a mafia in a circle (before we knew it was the mafia who got modkilled) then the mafia would know the circle and the town wouldn't. There would be no reason not to tell the town who was in the circle in that case.
On October 30 2010 04:59 annul wrote: fyi i will reveal my role too when i get elected, dont let drh use this as a point when ive been saying this too all game
why are you attacking me? i never said i'm the only person revealing my role, but can you use it to prove that you are a town player?
what are you offering aside from that? i'm pretty sure everyone running is gonna roleclaim when they are elected.
why bother to try and make me look bad? why not just say "i'm gonna roleclaim too", why even bring me up?
First off, annul hardly even attacked you. Quick defense there. Second off, he himself is rolefishing there "what are you offering aside from that." Very poor play in that regards. That's not rolefishing. I was referring to what do you offer ASIDE FROM YOUR ROLE. Reading comprehension, come on Pandain.
On October 30 2010 06:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: people in fishballs circle need to claim already
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
Actually, from a sense, I do need the Mayor role to scum hunt "within my small group", especially after I've decided to come out, there is no turning back.
It will all make sense when you know my role.
Is medic protection not enough?
If you are killed then wouldn't that increase suspicion on certain members of the group within the group itself?
Do you know the names of other players in the group and if so can you say who they are since they won't claim themselves? Otherwise there is really no reliable way to confirm your town alignment other than a DT check.
Fishes for town circle, trying to find it out. Why would town do this, it would only reveal to the mafia a town circle so they can snipe it. Yet Dr. H is trying to get him to reveal the list. Why do you assume its a town circle. Everyone was operating under the assumption that there was 1 mafia in the circle, meaning its a pro-town move to reveal the circle. The fact that the mafia in the circle was later modkilled makes it a much more questionable move.
On October 30 2010 09:41 Fishball wrote: As for people bringing up the idea of having the circle come forward, I've put some thought into it.
If the circle remains hidden to the public, the Mafia can try to remain within and get as much intel as possible, while we'll be trying to do the same thing as well. If the circle comes public, the Mafia might as well off these members one by one. Keep in mind, there is a chance that there are no Mafia members in the circle (though very not likely), but regardless of this possibility, Mafia can plant confusion among the remaining members, and mislead the town.
Also, if the circle comes forward and god forbids, gets eliminated, it would defeat the entire purpose.
I'm not exactly against this idea, but I just want everyone else to think it through a bit more and provide more input, possibility a better alternative. At the end, this would not be my decision, but the other players'.
PS. A correction I have to make. I said I've came in contact with 4 other players earlier, this was a mistake. I've only came in contact with 3. The remaining 2 have not contacted me. This does not mean they haven't contacted each other, which I would not know.
As far as I see it if Mafia start killing off town aligned members of the circle, they incriminate themselves really in the end. This puts a lot of pressure on mafia as to how they choose their kills and they have to very carefully consider their activity within the circle.
Very bad reasoning. Mafia couldn't incriminate themselves since we wouln't know who killed them. Yes, but the circle will have more information than us wouldn't they? It's much more possible a mafia slipped up in the circle considering a player as good as fishball is involved.
In this post Pandain: 1. claims to point out my "many lies" but failed to point out a SINGLE instance where I was lying. Rather he focuses on a point in the game when I was still figuring out what I could do with my role, hadn't considered all the possibilities of the game (such as insanity), and tries to apply it to what is happening now to make me look like I'm contradicting myself. 2. the lies he does point out are not only not lies, they are either qualified statements that he then twists into the truth. take for instance when I recently said "we shouldn't assume mafia ran for mayor or that the position is a good thing for them.", he twists this into meaning "MAFIA DIDN'T RUN FOR MAYOR AND DON'T WANT IT" so he can make my earlier posts look like lies. he does the same thing about my indirect confirmation claims through plague doctors. 3. tries really hard to make me look bad again but just makes himself looks like scum.
Sorry Pandain. Let me requote my general defense of the bullshit pandain and others have been spewing at me:
On November 02 2010 08:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Here is a summary of how I see the situation in the town right now.
Since I was not able to confirm myself to jcarlsoniv (either because he lied, because I lied, or because another night role prevented me from using my role) others in the town (mostly Pandain and Coagulation) have been very accusatory for me.
This is basically saying that because I was not confirmed to be town that means I am mafia. This is bad logic. This is a very simple situation. When I roleclaimed to the town and told them how my power of confirmation works it should have been equally obvious to everyone that a roleblocker role could stop me from acting and that the person I poke could lie. The latter is a possibility I openly talked about during my campaign, hoping it would make the mafia nervous and less likely to lie in the case that I do poke a mafia player.
The first I kept to myself. If the mafia are going to roleblock, it's better they roleblock me than say a plague doctor or a detective. This is something everyone should have known but really did not need to be said.
As far as the 100% confirmation issue, it is one that I dropped when I considered the possiblity that my role could be insane. The fact is, if my night action works, it confirms my role 100% to the person I poked in the exact way I've described a million times. I've been very consistent in my explanation of my role and I would argue that the assertion that I may have made up the role in the first place is absurd. I'll get to that later.
My night action depends on the night action succeeding. This is a tautology and I'm surprised people think it's something that needed to be set up. A typical sane medic can't protect someone if they are roleblocked but I doubt a medic would describe themselves as not being able to do their action.
I have since mostly stopped considering the idea that my role does not work the way it is described. Artanis said mods will not outright lie and that any deception in role PM's would be hinted at. I cannot quote my role PM, as it is cheating, but there is nothing in the role PM that could lead me to believe it is deceptive. There is no chance mechanic (like orgoloves) and the name/description is extremely straightforward. I poke someone and they know I poked them. If they don't know (and I wasn't roleblocked somehow) then it is because they have murrayitis. Artanis will tell me this. This means that if they DIDN'T get poked AND i don't get told they have murrayitis, that either:
A. Something stopped me from going forward with the role. A roleblocker or something else. B. The person I poked lied.
So I'm just going to leave that at that. That's how my role works. As far as the idea that maybe I'm lying about my role, sure anything is possible but lets look at my post history:
In the beginning of the thread Node was saying things that led me to believe that we might have the same role. I tried to fish to see if we did indeed have the same role.
On October 30 2010 06:17 Node wrote: The downside of secrecy is due to the nature of this particular game it's impossible to reveal any information without putting your head on the line. It's not exactly possible to be subtle -- it's all or nothing. I'm not in a position where I can gently guide town to the correct choices.
i have a feeling we have the same role actually
am i poking at the truth here?
Here I am trying to see if he responds to the term "poke". He doesn't so I try something a bit more obvious. No one except another sticky would get the reference and if Node wasn't the second sticky maybe someone else was. Basically I wanted to confirm that if I was the only sticky or not. If there was a second sticky who responded, I would know for a fact they were town aligned, and I would poke them during the night.
On October 30 2010 06:20 Node wrote: It would be a bizarre role to have more than one of, but I hear what you're saying.
now i'm thinking we don't have the same role, that puts me in a sticky situation but thats ok
This is my more obvious fish. This is very early in the thread.
Later kingjames discovers the significance of the name "Sticky" when Glasse tells me it sounds made up. Originally I thought sticky had something to do with that my body was covered in a sticky substance or something that made me immune to Murrayitis or that I was just a stick that poked people.
I forgot about the Bill Murray "Sticky" death post. It doesn't make sense that I wouldn't understand the name of a role that I MADE UP in the first place.
So lets say I made the role up. That means: 1. I anticipated Artanis' Bill Murray theme 2. Created a fake role which depends on indirectly communicating with other players, something that can be blocked. If I am mafia this requires me to out mafia to survive or sacrifice myself to a distrusting town for basically no reason or benefit 3. Coordinated with Node to fake a fish for the role I made up to appear as (presumably as Godfather) so I could later defend myself a few thousand posts later
And that I did all this to become mayor. A role that is NOT immune to rolechecks as it normally is, only has 1 extra vote (a negligible power since afaik mafia started out with 2 extra potential votes in the first place and there are other voting powers in the game. This diminishes the power of the mayor to swing bandwagons on his own)
Occams razor. Occams razor.
That is my general defense of the assaults that are happening on me right now. I believe this assault is a combination of mafia and misled town. The problem is determining who amongst this faction is town and who is mafia.
Knowing Pandain it is quite possible somebody wound him up and let him go off. Speculating on this will be difficult until we actually get a dead mafia. Then alliances in this game will become quite clear. The problem is getting our first lynch right. If vigilantes want to use your hit tonight, hit a player from the opposite "faction" or argumentative side as whoever was lynched unless the lynchee was a mafia.
So now I want to say some things about a few bad assumptions players are making:
1. Godfather exists 2. M-rus is a mafia ability 3. There has to be a mafia mayor candidate and it's one of the main ones
Watch out for people who continue talking about the godfather as though he is a for sure role in this game. Artanis confirmed it is up in the air. This however we do know, concerning the godfather.
1. If the Godfather exists, he must MAKE UP a role to appear as. If someone appears as a different role than they claimed in a DT check this is a huge paint for godfather as the GF has no way of knowing what roles are or aren't in the game. 2.If anyone else comes up as "Sticky" on a rolecheck besides myself, they're probably the Godfather. No one responded to my Sticky fish early in the game BUT because I believe I was the first person to reveal the name of my role the Godfather would know the name of 1 role in the game and it would be reasonable for him to choose that role. It was Glasse who first asked that I name my role.
2. Also we are assuming M-rus is a mafia ability. Node's roleclaim (and the fact that there are 3 deaths in the day) means we can pretty much forget the idea that the "2+1" mafia KP is 2 hits + 1 m-rus infection. I think it is more likely that M-rus is simply RNG'd onto a player or that another players role (not necessarily a mafia one) alludes to the fact that you are an insane/unknown M-rus carrier.
If the mafia spread M-Rus, perhaps they choose the person to put it on on day 1 and then thats it? The disease spreads quickly by how people visit eachother in the night, if the mafia could just continue spreading it around I think it would be very overpowered and they'd have half the town dead pretty quickly.
3. The mayor is not very strong in this game. Mafia don't need a mayor and in fact it might be more trouble for them than it's worth. 1 bodyguard, 1 extra vote, and that's really it as far as the mafia is concerned. Mafia aren't too scared of night kills as vig hits don't usually come until the late game and the main advantage of a mafia mayor is that he can't be rolechecked meaning you can give the Godfather role to another player.
Consider not only the intense scrutiny that the campaign brought initially (on myself, bum, pandain, and fishball) but the inense scrutiny that I am under now. Scrutiny on other mayoral candidates has since dropped off.
I believe that if mafia ran for mayor, it is quite possible it was one of the candidates that didn't do very well in the voting process. The mafia can then push the idea that "one of the main mayoral candidates MUST be mafia" while their initial runs for mayor go unscrutinized and unchecked. This is a possiblity. I do have suspicions that Pandain is mafia due to his poor attacks on me.
Lastly I want to say something. Forget about scumtells and all this stuff. When you look at what a player posts, yeah scumtells are all well and good, but any good mafia can point out a million scumtells that townies do and their town bandwagons depend on this. Look at a players goal. What is a player trying to accomplish? Is he arguing with the intent to get information crucial to the town or is he arguing with the intent to make a player look bad?
Scum wants to do the latter. They don't want the town to have any information, they don't care. What they do care about is that the town thinks someone else is scum or at the very least that the town doesn't trust the word of an experienced ally. Always think about the goal of the argument as well as the argument itself. Rhetoric is very important.
Factions forming in the town
This is something that is absolutely toxic to our ability to work together as a town to scumhunt.
By creating what appears to be alliances, the mafia can make several town players look bad or bus one mafia player to make several town players look bad. If we look at the series of defenses/attacks players have made on eachother a player could conclude that factions are forming within the game.
Just remember, it isn't necessarily all mafia on one side and one on the other. Dividing the town, creating factions, and drawing attention away from the facts and the arguments benefits the mafia. These factions are worth looking at when a mafia gets lynched and it becomes apparent who may have been a scumbuddy to that player.
That's my thoughts on the situation. I'll do some specific player analysis later. I'll be focusing on the seemingly opposing bandwagons concerning youngminii and Aeres as I feel mafia is behind one of these.
I'd like to ask Pandain a question. You said you would/could confirm yourself as townie even if you weren't mayor. You criticize me because i failed to do so. You also haven't confirmed yourself at all something that was part of your campaign promise. It strikes me as a tad bit hypocritical.
The basic reason I am voting for Aeres: 1. LAL influenced my decision but is not the only reason. 2. His claim of bodyguard was clearly not designed to soak up hits. It would become apparent he was a liar AS SOON as another bodyguard died. So in order to soak up hits on me another bodyguard would have to die, it would be confirmed that he lied, and then nothing happens. Secondly if he's trying to detract hits from other bodyguards why would he claim he can avoid mafia hits at night? If he's trying to soak up anything, it's MEDICS. 3. He claimed his lie was a great pro-town plan. He doesn't explain what the plan is, of course. Later I ask him if he's trying to soak up mafia hits, he says yes. That is bullshit for the reasons stated before. He has no pro-town plan, he waited for someone else to say how his lie could have been pro-town and then jumps on that. Too bad it's non sensible.
On October 30 2010 08:31 Aeres wrote: How many Bodyguards are assigned to a Mayor upon election, and through what method?
Interest in the role of bodyguard before the election is over. Just something to note, since if you are of the opinion that Aeres is mafia this means he could be planning his roleclaim already.
DocH Anyone that doesn't fucking vote for you must be scum? Are you fucking serious ?
i voted for Pandain because it was a choice between Him And Fishball at the time (bum withdrew his candidacy before i voted or I would have voted him for my placeholder instead of pandain) I posted many reasons why i chose pandain over fishball MANY Logical reasons. i will repost them for you ****This was before you had decided to run for mayor
On October 30 2010 00:07 Coagulation wrote: How about instead of blowing up about imaginary references to your CIRCLE in my post you answer the question that you completely avoided.
why would we want to risk a chance of 7 people possibly being scum manipulating town with mayor when we can go with the much safer odds of only 1 person possibly being scum.
I'm at work. I answer what I can given the time that I have, but I have always come back and address the rest. This is not dodging. People who have played with me in previous games will know.
I think you meant 6 people, as I said there are only 6 people in this group. Now why would Mafia include 6 of their 9 buddies in this circle? Why 6? Not 3, not 4, but 6? Assume what you say is true, all 6 of us are Mafia, how exactly would we "manipulate" town? What stops the other solo Mayor and his "non-circle" buddies to manipulate town? Different scenario, but the outcome can very well be the same.
Everyone can debate about the "truth", but no one can argue about that fact that I did offer information, and I want/need protection. With me being Mayor, doesn't make me a dictator. I still need the help of the town to provide valuable input.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Is that not a reasonable reason considering the two choices?? maybe not the greatest reason but I FEEL CONFIDENT we are not getting FUCKED BEHIND OUR BACKS.
On October 30 2010 00:26 Coagulation wrote: We need someone who is good at mafia but terrible at manipulation.
pandain is probably the best candidate under these parameters. he is an extremely organized and tactical scum hunter his analyses skills are good and he has a good level head about what needs to be done.
i have also noticed that he is a terrible lier and his posting style makes his motives extremely transparent. this would make it much easier for us to spot a slip up if he is mafia. and greatly increases the chances that he would fail at getting away with scum moves if it turns out he is a red.
Is that not a reasonable reason?? YOU SAID THE SAME THING EARLIER.
Now i am sticking with pandain because he is most likely not a red trying to gain control of town based on the fact that he is not campaigning relentlessly.
Pandain is more then capable of using what tools he has at his disposal to help coordinate a good town strategy and i doubt he would run for mayor if he thought his role wasnt capable of contributing greatly as mayor.. and I FEEL HE is the most TRUSTWORTHY candidate so far BASED ON HIS ACTIONS IN THIS GAME. I Dont get the same feeling from you when your Threatening "FOS" On anyone that doesnt vote you..
IM NOT VOTING on WHOS PROMISING SOME BULLSHIT IF THEY GET MAYOR (town circle?? where??) IM VOTING ON WHO I TRUST THE MOST IN MY GUT
IS THAT REASON ENOUGH?
Calm down, man. Tensions are expected to run high in a game based on lies and deception, but you don't need to blow your stack like that. People take you more seriously if you post with a more even-tempered tone.
On October 31 2010 00:39 Aeres wrote: Wow, quite a bit of discussion happened while I was in dreamland.
Despite all of the suspicion that's fallen around the Doc, my vote remains with him. I'm also feeling really shitty today, so I'm not really in the mood to do a lot of quote analysis and C/P'ing, but he makes a good case for himself and offers a practical solution that addresses the possibilities of him either being Mafia or spreading Murrayitis with the stick.
I personally don't think that Orgolove, one of the Doc's primary opponents, argues his point sufficiently for me to change my vote. I do not feel this because of past actions in Haunted Mafia, so I have no bias in that regard. I am speaking strictly in terms of the events that have transpired in this game, and those actions seem to me like Orgolove relies on word-twisting and subtle attacks to discredit people. There's nothing wrong with that methodology in a game like Mafia; in fact, I would encourage that playstyle. However, I feel that he's a bit too hostile and not convincing enough for my vote to be swayed.
Note to Orgolove: In no way do I mean to come across as antagonistic toward you. I simply don't agree with your method of debate thus far; I hope you understand this. =)
Oh, and by the way, at the very beginning of this game, where you said you were gonna run for Mayor and use a spreadsheet, you'll recall that I said that spreadsheet was a reason I wouldn't vote for you because of complications last game. You seem to feel that it was because the data on it pinned me as Mafia. I'd just like to point out that that isn't why I'm against the spreadsheet. (In fact, I don't think it ever did put any solid evidence on me as Mafia... if anything, I myself inadvertently planted the seeds of my demise by correcting your profile description of me, saying it was Joe Pesci, a movie actor in MAFIA films *cough cough*. Stupid move by me, to be honest.)
No, it was because that spreadsheet, despite your best efforts, was riddled with errors and misinformation, which skewed the discussion of clues in the thread. I say this because I want to drive the point home that I disagree with your methodology in terms of this game only; I don't have any weird vendetta against you. =)
I'll probably talk more if/when I feel better today. I'm still reading the topic and what transpires here, though, so I definitely won't be out of the loop.
decent post explaining his reasoning but doesn't really say too much in terms of original points
your posting is funny and cute but honestly at this point you are shitting up the thread. I'm requesting that you please stop, no one wants to wade through a bunch of your spam and god forbid someone take your current nonsense seriously.
I don't think that's fair to accuse Glasse of shitting up the thread when I've done more of it than he has. If anything, blame me. = /
On October 31 2010 05:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 31 2010 05:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On October 31 2010 05:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: One thing I want to point out:
On October 31 2010 05:01 Kenpachi wrote: ##Elect DoctorHelvetica
From voting thread. Kenpachi has not posted once since the game started. Let's keep a closer eye on lurkers than we did in Haunted.
I started a list of lurkers but it's as home, if a list isn't posted by 8 or so tonigh when I get home I'll post mine.
Another quick reason why to vote for doc, he's already stated his day one lynch would be youngminii who so far has been the scummiest player.
I no longer feel youngminii is the scummiest.
In fact I would like to hear from every townie who their #1 suspect is of scum, if they have one at all. I would like to hear other peoples opinions. There has been a lot of campaign shitflinging and very little scumhunting of any sort. I don't think the mafia feel very pressured right now.
If I had to go with my gut instinct, I'd say either NB or ghrur. I have nothing concrete on either of them, but they feel somehow... strange. Not fishy, that's too cliché... merely strange.
Aeres is right, he hella spammed. I don't really like his meek/submissive tone it implies a little bit of implicit guilt.
Here comes the big one, I'm gonna deconstruct this post in red.
On November 01 2010 04:12 Aeres wrote: Okay, since it seems that the Doc's position as Mayor is in jeopardy, I'm going to put some interesting info out there.
On October 31 2010 10:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Further news I forgot to put in the night post: Due to budget cuts, we have only managed to purchase one bodyguard for the Mayor.
Artanis lied. big assumption there
There are two Bodyguards, not one. I don't know who the first one is (I suspect it's DC), but I am the second one.
we know this is a lie.
I was going to play dumb about my role of Bodyguard until DC screwed up. I dunno if he really is the other Bodyguard, but if he is, I feel like if he was killed, then the Mafia, upon learning that there is a second Bodyguard (due to a failed hit on Mayor), would start hitting the most outspoken townspeople in lieu of the Mayor. Since I am in fact one of the more outspoken people in this topic, I was at risk of being "tapped", so to speak.
He talks about his past behavior/thoughts concerning the role of bodyguard which seems strange for a protown liar. He showed some express interest in the workings of the bodyguard role. It seems like he wanted to understand the role a lot better before he faked his roleclaim, a mafia would want to cover all the bases and would probably work harder at it IMO.
I would also like to note that my normal role greatly assists my ability to act as a Bodyguard. Since Bodyguards block hits on the Mayor, killing them makes the Mayor vulnerable. My role is designed to increase my longevity as long as possible.
It's odd that you're talking about how your role assists you in being bodyguard because it serves the exact opposite purpose you CLAIMED you were trying to achieve with your fake roleclaim.
My role is called the "Cruiseship Captain". I am eligible to PM a mod in order to set sail for the ocean and leave town for the night, thus becoming immune to any and all night actions (positive and negative alike, including roleblocks and DT checks). I am not permitted to set sail on consecutive nights.
Because of this mechanic, I can survive on my own for a short while. Having a Medic tend to me will not be necessary for the first few nights. Once my role has been exhausted of uses (I do not know how many times I can set sail in this game, only that it is more than once), Medics are more than welcome to assist me.
Later you say you're trying to draw hits to yourself, because you can protect yourself. However, by saying this the mafia is less likely to hit you than any other bodyguard (you claim DC is one of them and funnily enough it turns out that it seems he's going to die). Why are the mafia going to waste their hits on a bodyguard claiming "you can't hit me?" you're not trying to soak up shit.
Also, please keep in mind that my role has an additional function that I am not presently willing to reveal.
I think at this point maybe you should if we are to believe you. It's do or die.
Yeah, this is all great, Aeres, but now you sound mighty suspicious to me!
Well, yes, I cannot deny that I seem fishy (pardon the pun, I am a Cruiseship Captain, after all). I also imagine it does not help my case that setting sail makes me immune to DT checks. I assure you all, however, that I am working in the interests of the town. Believe me, I'd rather not cause suspicion when it isn't warranted, but DC's possibly slip-up forced my hand.
Oddly enough you didn't seem to consider the fact that you were the only bodyguard and that DC was lying. You immediately went to "artanis is lying and there are 2 bodyguards." There is no reason for a bodyguard to claim for pro-town reasons. Later it turns out that DC didn't claim bodyguard, is going to die, and the real bodyguard died. Whoops.
On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain.
Talking about how he can protect me when it's clear that his claim isn't designed to draw hits and that he has no real way of protecting me at all.
On November 01 2010 03:00 bumatlarge wrote: It seems a fairly nifty scum tactic to come out and ask for medic protection fyi. With one medic dead, and another claimed(?), I think it's safe to say we can't cover everyone we want to. Stop coming out with something and expecting to be protected. Your killing us.
Congrats on the Queen, Bum! Liked the Lurker better, but meh.
As for your point, I agree for the most part. However, I would argue that it might be advantageous to roleclaim if your role allows something similar to what youngminii did to avoid the lynch. There might be strategic value in roleclaiming some other powerful role to waste a KP or lynch. I'm not sure what the balance is between offensive, defensive, and investigative roles might be, though, so it's possible that only a few people fit this bill. A fair bit of WIFOM comes into play here, but it might pan out.
On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them.
Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain.
I don't know whether Artanis would give us such a blatant lie, i.e. about the number of bodyguards. If you are, as you claim, a bodyguard, then I think that makes DCXLVI highly suspicious.
As has been stated before (and most likely again later), this is INSANE Mafia. We have no idea what Artanis and LSB are capable of throwing at us.
I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Aeres is really pushing the mistrust of Artanis/LSB when he knows they didn't lie because he is the liar. Hmm.
On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: BrownBear was minding his own business, he didn’t do anything wrong! He had all the tools he needed to mess up the elections, but as they say. It never pays to be good. BrownBear died for being good. Kids, honesty never pays off.
Now THIS has got me very suspicious of the Doctor. What I'm getting from this is that BrownBear tried to manipulate the election results so that the Doc wouldn't win, but he failed, and the Mafia killed him.
This makes it seem like the Doc is scum. I mean, it's a good thing for a Mayor to be town, so if BrownBear was killed for doing good, does that mean his efforts to get the town control from Mafia failed because the Doc or another Mafioso caught wind of what was happening?
He was my most enthusiastic defender earlier in the thread. This seems pretty far-fetched to me but of course I'm biased.
On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote: Alright, it's confession time.
I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard.
When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good.
When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried.
I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark.
I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town.
(I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....)
He says he had a plan but he doesn't tell us what it was. You've been caught, why would you not tell us?
On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct?
In essence, yes.
I guess what his plan might have been and he agrees but in retrospect it's weird he didn't just say so in the first place. especially since after I went over his original post claiming bodyguard it's very clear that his claim was not designed to do this at all.
On November 01 2010 11:48 Ace wrote: So Aeres admits he lies AFTER I point out that in 3 different scenarios there's no way he could have been telling the truth. This is past policy lynching now, because if DC never said he didn't claim how are we sure Aeres would have "come clean"? He only admitted to the lie after both of us pretty showed he had to be bullshitting.
I was AFK, writing a paper for school. As soon as I was finished, I wrote the confession post.
On November 01 2010 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On November 01 2010 11:45 Aeres wrote:
On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct?
In essence, yes.
That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did.
Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia.
However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard.
By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you.
Understandable. I'm still new to Mafia, and I still have a lot of learning to do concerning the nuances of the game. I tried something, it didn't work, and I'm taking heat for it. I had a feeling this would happen, but I don't particularly regret it, as I wanted to experiment, as I said before.
baww i'm new i wanted to experiment it was just a risky plan. you are posting with a lot of guilty rhetoric. If it was truly a failed pro town gambit, there is no real reason to act this way about it imo
On November 01 2010 11:57 bumatlarge wrote: Well, Aeres, now no one feels comfortable leaving you alive. And I'd imagine no one would have felt comfortable leaving you alive if your plan worked.
The only thing holding me back is how very thin a ruse this would be as mafia. What would it even do...
Meh, there's not much I can do to defend myself now. I'll leave it up to you guys, although at this point, I agree it's a liability to keep me alive.
On November 01 2010 23:44 Aeres wrote: ##Vote Aeres
There's no redemption for me now. I made a bad move as an inexperienced player, and the town suffered because of it. I'm too much of a liability to keep alive, so I am voting for myself to smooth things out when I'm lynched.
Again, I apologize for making such an audacious play. I clearly should have considered the ramifications of my actions better, and because I was hasty, the town is no better off than before. At best, I learned what not to do in a Mafia game.
I don't expect to survive the day, so I'm taking the chance now to say good luck. I let you guys down, but I'm still rooting for you.
I don't even... What?
I've said time and time again I'm waiting for you to argue. I'm not 100% certain you're scum, I don't think anyone is, and you have this time to point out why we shouldn't lynch you. It is never, ever good town play to lynch yourself unless there's a special scenario/mechanic that directly helps town to do it.
Hold on, let's consider something for a second. Why would aeres do this? It doesn't really make sense to concede so easily. Dr.H has said he thinks Glasse could be Village Idiot, and is trying to get lynched. What if Aeres has a role like this? He knew he would be caught in the lie, and wants to get lynched. What happens when the village idiot does get lynched? And an even more important question: what implications could this have if this is a mafia role?
It's not a matter of conceding easily. I simply have no defense for myself. I lied to try and protect the Doc, I failed, and I fucked up the game. If I saw a way out of the mess I put myself in, I'd pursue it, but I just cannot see how I would be able to, especially since I've essentially lost any semblance of trustworthiness.
As for the Village Idiot idea, don't you think it's odd for a VI to have a role that encourages survival? Why would that happen? And why would a VI be allowed to vote for himself? That seems like an overpowered role to me.
Doesn't really seem to understand VI and I doubt Aeres is the VI anyway.
I'm more convinced than ever that Aeres might be scum and considering my reanalysis of youngminii's post it seems that mafia are trying to push the bandwagon off of aeres and onto YM.
On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote: Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind.
I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious.
On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post.
I don't see it as martyrdom since he isn't saying "lynch me" or "idc if I'm lynched".
I'm making a case for Aeres as scum rather than just a liar. Do you have any thoughts on it?
CubEdIn originally roleclaimed only to me. After I told him PMs were illegal and that I had to report him he roleclaimed to the whole town.
Much easier to make up a role to trick one person than it is to make up a role to trick the whole town no? It also seems inconsistent with the idea that "I can roleclaim because mafia know I'm the medic anyway", since why wouldn't he just roleclaim to the town right off the bat?
On November 03 2010 06:37 CubEdIn wrote: I'm not blaming you, but there was no other person I trusted more.
Fact is though, I'm pretty relaxed because I'm pretty sure that with arguments like these, the Mafia will be strolling through this game easy peasy.
And since most of you are so fond of ifs and maybes, here's a question for you: If you were Mafia, how would you act towards my role-claim? Both you (Dr.H) and L. Is the answer "Exactly like we did so far, so that the town will get rid of you and we don't have to waste a role-blocker and a hit for one person"? Just asking.
I'm just explaining my reasoning for not necessarily trusting you, I'm not accusing you of being scum.
On November 03 2010 08:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [ Divinek the Mafia Plague Doctor is now dead.
You are the Mafia Plague Doctor! You killed LSB because you were unhappy with the town. You decided to aid the mafia in curing their members instead. You can cure any one person from Murrayitis at night.
Well I guess that infers some town members also have the power to use Murrayitis against the mafia? That's a good thing I suppose.
I don't that is the case. Remember that day1 post about mafia harness the power of M-Rus? It implies that only the mafia can use the power. The mafia having their own plague doctor give them the incentive to infect their own (possible popular players) and transmitted the disease faster. They can cure the disease right before all the infected die.
the mafia would know who they gave M-rus too but not who got it by proxy
say mafia infect player x with m-rus and blue players a b and c visit player x
players a b and c now have m-rus. if a mafia visits/kills one of those players they will also get m-rus.
On November 03 2010 08:22 deconduo wrote: Lots of bad stuff, and one nice good thing. Maf lost a plague doctor. Possibly/probably their only one. This means their protection against murrayitis just took a huge hit.
Another really interesting thing that comes from this is the following:
Pointless I know, but I told you so. Aeres wasn't scummy, LAL is dumb.
Good, maybe Pandain will stop his dumb campaign of bullshit against me now.
I felt Aeres was scummy. Nothing about his roleclaim made sense with a plan to soak up hits and mafia stood to benefit from the move. I think this throws YM and Ace under the bus more than anyone else but we need to be careful with accusing players for supporting Aeres because there is a looooooooot of WIFOM involved in that.
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
i think it's beyond silly to say they can be assuredly confirmed in any way. There is got to be a high chance of having some kind of framer role, and what better choice than a mayor that's trying to say hey guyz i can be verified
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise.
I can't fathom any way you can do this that doesn't involve the possibility of you just getting your mafia buddies to help you do whatever it is you say you can do
I dont like the idea of just picking someone for what they say they are able to be or capable of. I'm more inclined to go with someone who has shown they can actually be useful instead of spewing confirmability.
Whatever it is you say you can do to confirm yourself i have no doubt the host put in something to make it possible to compromise the integrity of your claim. It's silly that you could try to be concrete on something so unknown to anyone.
I would rather have someone leading with clearly good intentions and capable of doing something instead of saying well guys i can be confirmed, cause once someone gets elected the spot lights so heavy it's ridiculous anyway
can i also note he's making some of the exact same arguments pandain is making now?
On November 03 2010 08:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote: can i take the time to say that divineks only contentful posts in this thread were attempts to discredit my campaign/make me look bad?
On October 30 2010 09:49 Divinek wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
i think it's beyond silly to say they can be assuredly confirmed in any way. There is got to be a high chance of having some kind of framer role, and what better choice than a mayor that's trying to say hey guyz i can be verified
On October 30 2010 09:53 Divinek wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote: Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment.
I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise.
I can't fathom any way you can do this that doesn't involve the possibility of you just getting your mafia buddies to help you do whatever it is you say you can do
I dont like the idea of just picking someone for what they say they are able to be or capable of. I'm more inclined to go with someone who has shown they can actually be useful instead of spewing confirmability.
Whatever it is you say you can do to confirm yourself i have no doubt the host put in something to make it possible to compromise the integrity of your claim. It's silly that you could try to be concrete on something so unknown to anyone.
I would rather have someone leading with clearly good intentions and capable of doing something instead of saying well guys i can be confirmed, cause once someone gets elected the spot lights so heavy it's ridiculous anyway
can i also note he's making some of the exact same arguments pandain is making now?
there isnt a person in this game who isnt suspicious of you.
that's ok, i can understand that
but that doesn't really qualify as a helpful reply to my post. you're just saying "yeah whatever everyone thinks you're red so la la la i can't hear you"
On November 03 2010 08:45 Coagulation wrote: also im wondering exactly how many blues are you allowed to lynch before its justifiable for us to question you?
is there a number?
I welcome people to question me/suspect me
But I'm not going to just sit back and watch people shit on me without defending myself and if their arguments/suspicions are grounded in bullshit then I'm going to call them out on it
you're basically criticizing me for not just saying "lol yup im red you got me guys"
could that be dumber? not to mention divinek was on the lynch list i originally sent to artanis
On November 03 2010 08:45 Coagulation wrote: also im wondering exactly how many blues are you allowed to lynch before its justifiable for us to question you?
On November 03 2010 08:45 Coagulation wrote: also im wondering exactly how many blues are you allowed to lynch before its justifiable for us to question you?
is there a number?
I would say that if DrH fails to confirm himself this night phase.
This is the part where I say "I told you so"
And the part where I go batshit crazy. Seriously, we don't fucking lynch FOR BAD TOWNIE PLAY, WE LYNCH FOR SCUM PLAY. It was pretty obvious that aeres did the former.
So I really want to lynch the people who started the bandwagon now, but I guess it will have to wait until next day phase.
i interpreted it as scum play
his gambit didn't really make sense as it described it but I suppose he just didn't think it through and acted on impulse. it made him look scummy to me and unlike others in the bandwagon I was the only one who bothered to explain why I thought he was scum rather then just yelling LYNCH ALL LIARS over and over again.
aeres couldn't have discouraged mafia from shooting me, because as soon as the real bodyguard dies it's obvious that his roleclaim was fake, and he admitted it almost immediately
if annul didn't die then he wouldn't have succeeded in throwing hits off of annul/DC either because his claim focused on the fact that hits on him would fail giving the mafia 0 incentive to hit him in the first place. it isn't a sensible play as town at all. tell me how it is instead of just being vague and explaining nothing all the time
On November 03 2010 09:04 Coagulation wrote: i think if anyone is painted red by the aeres lynch its youngminii he was the very first to throw around "LAL" and "lynch first ask questions later" with zero reasoning.
unless something significant happens overnight im gonna be watching youngminni closely.
I agree actually. As far as how I feel about this lynch I'm incredibly wary of YM and Aeres.
I'm more afraid than ever that youngminii is a judas role.
On November 03 2010 09:04 Coagulation wrote: i think if anyone is painted red by the aeres lynch its youngminii he was the very first to throw around "LAL" and "lynch first ask questions later" with zero reasoning.
unless something significant happens overnight im gonna be watching youngminni closely.
I agree actually. As far as how I feel about this lynch I'm incredibly wary of YM and Aeres.
I'm more afraid than ever that youngminii is a judas role.
Judas = ?
judas is a town role that becomes mafia when lynched, it is in opposition to saulus that is mafia and becomes town when lynched
the other role I know that avoids its first lynch is "unlynchable"
On November 03 2010 09:55 Glasse wrote: 1. he forgot about it, could be one of the active day 1- inactive day 2 player. 2. can't be used every day 3. mysterious stuff happened
that reminds me, I have a question for you. Do you have a guess as to why the Day post said we're in a sticky situation with DrH as mayor if you didn't write that?
On November 03 2010 11:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Once this game is over I'm gonna find someone to teach me how to do analysis posts because I don't know how to quote everything I want to but I said I'd take a closer look at bumatlarge and I feel like I found some good stuff.
Here are some theories also. Rolebloker targetted Dr.H we assume, right? Dr.H is immune to M-rus. Mafia has a now dead PD. I think mafia is very conservative in their actions for fear of the virus. Which makes me think that town is likely to have a virus spreading role if they found some unprecedented infected.
I suggest a medic considers dr. h as a target, since he is immune and becoming a clearer townie day by day.
Maybe he hasn't been paying attention but Doc is definetly not a clearer townie
Investigate me all the way, but i suggest if we have a PD to make sure i dont start spreading AIDS everywhere.
My power lets me have a permanent mason relationship with someone the rest of the game. They dont know who else I add each day, and they cannot PM anyone but me. So if im red, i can distort everything to hell. But if I start spreading misinformation, I'd like to think that the people I choose would be smart enough to catch it. And even if M-rus works that it immediately contracts to the person who visits, and then contracts to the person who visits them, I cannot contract it, because I can do it at the start of each day, so people who protect and investigate me are under no danger unless I am plagued. If I am immune, I cannot contract it when I add people, so I feel like a worthy candidate of having a PD vaccinate me.
Is this his power? Why haven't we heard more about it? It's been long enough for him to use it.
I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
I did not withdraw my candidacy, I merely stated that fishball's plan was similar to mine, and if alot of the town thought him the better candidate I would not have a problem, but after reading into it and stating my opinions, I still want to be mayor, because
1) I know Im town, and will work in every way possible to make everything clear to everyone on what is happening. 2) I can make bodyguards in my circle! 100% confirmed townies, so if im poisoned or lynched, I can pass on all my info to them. How you will verify them though, might be a tad confusing. I hope to figure that out, and Im open to ideas. 3) I WONT FUCK IT UP. (Fairly sure fishball wont either if he isnt red)
Again, Im fairly certain it should be between fishball and I, because we can make circles happen, and he has stated that he has the power to flesh out the weeds of his. I'd like for him to address connecting circles through me, that would be cool. I need to catch up now, I was working.
Also, if a person is contaminated with M-rus in the night, and they are visited that same night, do the visitors contract it? This is very important, because if medics protect him, we need to know how the M-rus functions.
Someone help me out, what does he mean by this post? He can make body guards?
I am not in Fishball's circle. I have an ability to form a town circle of my choosing. I already choose my first person.
I don't have any other role, but I can easily access any circle already made if they are pro town. I don't have anything to hide now, and I guarantee everything I do will have crystal clear reasons as to why. The only thing I will not tell you is who. I believe my method will work slower then fishball, but it will be more effective later on.
It's not all that dangerous if I am not mayor, but it can be really strong if I am mayor. I dont think anyone aside from fishball has hinted that they can do this. It should be between me and him.
Here's where he first talks about his role, a role easily faked by scum (like fishballs but fishball was proved innocent and I think that makes it even more likely the bum is lying). SHIT I have to go but I'm gonna post this anyway... I'll be back.
On November 03 2010 13:21 infinitestory wrote: umm, kitaman there are 3/29 players with murrayitis DrH will only find a murrayitis carrier tonight with some excellent luck
On November 03 2010 11:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Once this game is over I'm gonna find someone to teach me how to do analysis posts because I don't know how to quote everything I want to but I said I'd take a closer look at bumatlarge and I feel like I found some good stuff.
Ive seen divine around that fucking lurker, feel free to bandwagon him.
Divine voted for me as mayor
This is before and after the night post. I know divine outside of TL mafia. I don't think he remembered that he was playing.
Here are some theories also. Rolebloker targetted Dr.H we assume, right? Dr.H is immune to M-rus. Mafia has a now dead PD. I think mafia is very conservative in their actions for fear of the virus. Which makes me think that town is likely to have a virus spreading role if they found some unprecedented infected.
I suggest a medic considers dr. h as a target, since he is immune and becoming a clearer townie day by day.
Maybe he hasn't been paying attention but Doc is definetly not a clearer townie Maybe you haven't been paying attention, so explain to me why DocH isn't a clearer townie day by day not confirmed. He is by no means confirmed.
And would it be selfish or scummy to ask for that vaccine if it hasnt already been dished out?
Role Fishing maybe? rofl for a plague doctor to use his power on me? Are you even playing this game or reading how things happen in this game He makes a list of players and their actions but it's not really anything new, it feels like he's scum trying to act like town.
He posts a lot of small, rather irelevent posts that make him look active but are actually pretty substanceless.
Investigate me all the way, but i suggest if we have a PD to make sure i dont start spreading AIDS everywhere.
My power lets me have a permanent mason relationship with someone the rest of the game. They dont know who else I add each day, and they cannot PM anyone but me. So if im red, i can distort everything to hell. But if I start spreading misinformation, I'd like to think that the people I choose would be smart enough to catch it. And even if M-rus works that it immediately contracts to the person who visits, and then contracts to the person who visits them, I cannot contract it, because I can do it at the start of each day, so people who protect and investigate me are under no danger unless I am plagued. If I am immune, I cannot contract it when I add people, so I feel like a worthy candidate of having a PD vaccinate me.
Is this his power? Why haven't we heard more about it? It's been long enough for him to use it. Yes, I am the one not paying attention this game. He makes a couple apologies for being inactive
I think it's safe to say you are claiming plague doctor, and the person you protect gets notified that you did this? That could be convenient. I do find it possible that mafia could have there own plague doctor, but Im not here to speculate that. If you use your power on me, and I can add you, we can start a circle. To verify it, you would give me one bodyguard who I would relay all of the information I learn. A medic can protect me if they wish, without fearing M-rus. If there is another plague doctor besides Dr.H (if that is what you are) Id suggst picking fishball, who has stated he has means to a circle and a role. That way another medic can choose between myself and fishball to protect. Whats really important is that the medics are safe in this from the M-rus, and if fishball or I die from a lucky shot by mafia, then oh well, fishball or myself die.
Is this plausible Dr. H? If so, then you have my vote.
Here's his reason for voting for our dear mayor. I can't even believe how much misinformation you are spreading around. Do I really need to explain this stuff? I said if he was claiming plague doctor, we could check him to see, and it would be a much more valuable mayor then the 'sticky' version.
I did not withdraw my candidacy, I merely stated that fishball's plan was similar to mine, and if alot of the town thought him the better candidate I would not have a problem, but after reading into it and stating my opinions, I still want to be mayor, because
1) I know Im town, and will work in every way possible to make everything clear to everyone on what is happening. 2) I can make bodyguards in my circle! 100% confirmed townies, so if im poisoned or lynched, I can pass on all my info to them. How you will verify them though, might be a tad confusing. I hope to figure that out, and Im open to ideas. 3) I WONT FUCK IT UP. (Fairly sure fishball wont either if he isnt red)
Again, Im fairly certain it should be between fishball and I, because we can make circles happen, and he has stated that he has the power to flesh out the weeds of his. I'd like for him to address connecting circles through me, that would be cool. I need to catch up now, I was working.
Also, if a person is contaminated with M-rus in the night, and they are visited that same night, do the visitors contract it? This is very important, because if medics protect him, we need to know how the M-rus functions.
Someone help me out, what does he mean by this post? He can make body guards? ROFL? I'm sorry, I think you need to read the thread again, or at least look who was running for mayor.
I am not in Fishball's circle. I have an ability to form a town circle of my choosing. I already choose my first person.
I don't have any other role, but I can easily access any circle already made if they are pro town. I don't have anything to hide now, and I guarantee everything I do will have crystal clear reasons as to why. The only thing I will not tell you is who. I believe my method will work slower then fishball, but it will be more effective later on.
It's not all that dangerous if I am not mayor, but it can be really strong if I am mayor. I dont think anyone aside from fishball has hinted that they can do this. It should be between me and him.
Here's where he first talks about his role, a role easily faked by scum (like fishballs but fishball was proved innocent and I think that makes it even more likely the bum is lying). SHIT I have to go but I'm gonna post this anyway... I'll be back.
It seems you are a bit confused as to the reasons why I would be scummy at all. And Dr. H is in my circle. So is one other that I wont disclose. Everything you have said derives from your inconsistent understanding of what is happening. Someone else post a better analysis if you are really going to be suspicious of me, which I find on the other hand to be completely reasonable since I am the only candidate with one mafia to have voted for me and no confirmed townies.
And if anyone wants to link Dr. H and I, go ahead.
On the contrary, I want you to explain to me why DrH is becoming a clearer townie day by day in spite of the fact that the last 50 pages or so have been a clusterfuck involving Pandain, Coagulation, and myself poking holes in DrH's story the whole way through, and that DrH has not confirmed his role and was a major advocate for lynching Aeres (who as you know was blue).
i feel pretty confident saying none of you poked holes in anything
During the night I can poke someone. If I poke them they receive a PM saying something to the effect of "You have been poked by DoctorHelvetica"
If the poke is successful, then I know they don't have murrayitis. However, Artanis will not tell me whether my poke was successful or not, so the other person can lie and say I did not poke them.
If they have murrayitis, the poke will not succeed, but Artanis will tell me they have Murrayitis. If the poke doesn't succeed AND I don't get a PM from Artanis saying they have M-Rus then it is likely I was roleblocked, they lied, or that they were commuted or something to that effect.
On November 03 2010 15:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Yeah, I dunno there is a lot to think about. I was mainly focusing on the idea that the target of the poke could of been bus'd instead of role blocked, or it could of just went through. There is just so many trivial things in this game its hard to rule anything out.
I swear I really enjoy this set up I just really wish that I was here since the beginning. With all the work I have to do it makes it really hard to try to keep up with the thread which gets another 20 pages every time I refresh. I also can't skim read because there is so much important stuff that happened that I am so far behind.
Its very demotivating :/ but I will try anyway. I just read the post by DrH recently where he talks about getting role blocked and I just wanted to bring up some obvious possibilities that he could of easily been bus'd because he made a pretty large jump on page 75ish which from a recent post (maybe 5 pages ago?) he apparently still stuck with.
I haven't really formed much of an opinion on anyone, but for such a good player it seems like a glaring oversight. It really sucks I have to sleep soon though, I actually fine this game to be the most interesting one I have played in in a long time. Reminds me of the olden days before the massive amount of F11 lamer set-ups.
Not being able to PM is fucking shit and makes the game boring/frustrating as hell.
On November 03 2010 22:27 Ace wrote: yo Cubicle I got a question.
Aeres claims bodyguard and Cruiseship Captain.
How can he draw a scum hit if he won't even be there?
rofl
Well a scum hit ordered on someone who's not there would result in a wasted Mafia KP, wouldn't it?
which is why his plan makes no sense
if he claims "im the bodyguard and mafia can't hurt me because i leave at night" there is 0 incentive for mafia to hit him over 666 who he must have though twas the real bodyguard
what his fake roleclaim was supposed to do i still dont really know
On November 04 2010 03:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I have entrusted Bumatlarge with a message in case I die in the night. If he doesn't post it, he should be held accountable and possibly lynched.
I don't know how I feel about L. I don't like the way he is playing this game and I disagree with a lot of what he says but that doesn't make him scummy.
On November 04 2010 04:09 CubEdIn wrote: ...well as I said, 40%. Meaning that I would hesitate to even vote for him, unless some other "clues" pop up.
But it's still more than I feel about everyone else in this game.
Also, shouldn't we keep an eye on the lurkers here. I didn't really count but I'm preeetty sure that there are at least 5-10 people who are voting but not really bothering to post much. You said I was inactive in Haunted Mafia, but these guys are way less active than I was and nobody's forcing them to take a stand.
The problem is determining which inactives are mafia and which are just inactives :/
On November 04 2010 03:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I have entrusted Bumatlarge with a message in case I die in the night. If he doesn't post it, he should be held accountable and possibly lynched.
without pm, how you entrusted him a message exactly?
also i dont understand why both Dr.H and DC are so willing to die tonight? you guys know somebody who much more worthy to save?
I can PM, I pm'd my conditional death post to bumatlarge like 2 minutes ago
Bumatlarge (Ran for mayor, haven't seen him much since apart from the bit about Dr. H and his circle) LunarDestiny Meapak_Ziphh
I'd be most wary of infundibulum. I don't know how busy he is but he is a pretty experienced player and he's hardly contributed here at all. Hyperbola too.
CubEdIn doesn't need to and shouldn't explain his logic
not everything has to be spelled out and townies don't and shouldn't say everything they're thinking right away. there is something to be said for not giving the mafia information they don't need.
oh the slashes in the password match up. the character count seems to be different but i really don't understand codes at all so that doesn't mean anything
i agree with you about bum, there is no reason a medic should announce their plans to the town/mafia and idk how i feel about kitaman27 criticising him for not explaining exactly what he was thinking
i agree with you about bum, there is no reason a medic should announce their plans to the town/mafia and idk how i feel about kitaman27 criticising him for not explaining exactly what he was thinking
Nope, pretty sure that didn't happen. I never put him at fault for not explaining his actions. Although, that is the second time you have tried to place blame upon me.
oh no i'm not trying to blame you but it seemed to me like you wanted him to explain what he was doing when i interpreted it as a trap at the time
"Some looney tried to force his way into a house, but this attempt failed. The man himself was out of town for the night." makes me think there is either a commuter or another cruiseship captain.
"Blue pill is not what you think." Does Glasse know something about CubEdIn?
Anyway I'm gonna wait for a bit and see if the person I poked came forward. I'll reveal their name after a while.
I'll come out with my death post now, no reason to hide it. This is what I PM'd bumatlarge.
" I hate to say I told you so town, but I told you so.
Now that I'm dead, lynch either Pandain, Coagulation, or InfiniteStory. Pandain and InfiniteStory have been parroting the few arguments made by Divinek, the confirmed mafia. It is likely one of them was being instructed what to say/what agenda to push behind the scenes. It is highly unlikely the 3 players aggressively pushing suspicion on a townie mayor and using the exact arguments as a dead mafia are town.
The one I least likely suspect is Coagulation. Coagulation is a terrible player and is easily incensed. As soon as he has a silly idea in his head he pushes it aggressively whether he understands what is going on or not. He also has a personal grudge agaisnt me for my inflammatory play against him in the previous mafia game. Pandain is also not very good and can be VERY easily manipulated by a smart mafia. InfiniteStory is playing very different than he did when he was pro-town in the last mafia game, in which he was very inactive and never really explained/made his arguments well. Something about the way he is playin gin this game makes me think he is getting his arguments/orders from elsewhere.
Ace is another suspect. Ace says in his scum manifesto that when he is scum he will push the easiest target. Aeres was an easy target not only because of LAL but because his plan could be easily misconstrued (as it was by me) as being scummy. Ace hasn't really applied pressure to any strong/active players in this game.
Youngminii is obviously suspicious, but something about his tenacity almost makes me think he isn't mafia. It's all WIFOM but he's a great target for a DT check at the least. Keep an eye on him, he can be dangerous behind the scenes IMO.
Meapakk_Ziph and Deconduo are my top 2 suspects that aren't particularly active. Also look at inactives that were part of the Aeres bandwagon, 1 or 2 of them are probably mafia. Maybe even more.
Also I advice town to carefully read Divinek's posts and posts regarding Divinek. It can be assumed that players who called out Divinek on inactivity are probably innocent (like Veldril in particular) and that they should be trusted. There is no reason for a mafia to call out an inactive mafia, if they want to put pressure on inactives they'll simply talk about other inactives. Keep note of that when you are trying to determine who is likely pro-town. There are a lot of search results for "Divinek" but look in particular for any soft/indirect defenses of Divinek and take them to heart. "
The second person in bumatlarge's PM circle was Ace
[quote]This is the last PM I sent Ace, I have told him that you do have suspicions on him. If I die, and you do not, post it please! Dont say anything though, I want to see if i die. He asked why I am skeptical of him.
"I don't know you've been... complacent this game. Id expect for you to be a little more judgmental about what people are doing. It makes me cautious. Not that you haven't been very helpful as town, it just seems like you are satisfied with where the game is going. Do you think town is going to win this game? I mean so far the only scum kills are modkills. It seems like you would be pressuring everyone, especially me with, for all i know, the only PM contact you have. I'm not normally a confrontation guy, but I will speak my opinions. But I try to lean more on facts then my gut. If you are mafia, kill me fast "[/qupte]
This is the last PM I sent Ace, I have told him that you do have suspicions on him. If I die, and you do not, post it please! Dont say anything though, I want to see if i die. He asked why I am skeptical of him.
"I don't know you've been... complacent this game. Id expect for you to be a little more judgmental about what people are doing. It makes me cautious. Not that you haven't been very helpful as town, it just seems like you are satisfied with where the game is going. Do you think town is going to win this game? I mean so far the only scum kills are modkills. It seems like you would be pressuring everyone, especially me with, for all i know, the only PM contact you have. I'm not normally a confrontation guy, but I will speak my opinions. But I try to lean more on facts then my gut. If you are mafia, kill me fast "
Yes, I would assume so. Bumatlarge did tell him I was suspicious of him though as you see and he probably knew I was part of the circle before i told everyone
btw if detectives have found a significant mafia persona (an active mafia poster) now is the time to come out and say who it is, this could lead to getting 2 mafia lynches tomorrow with a double lynch
On November 04 2010 08:38 Ace wrote: Yea Dr.H, bum told me he added you to the circle a while ago. I pretty much figured bum was fearing for his life. I actually just woke up and was PMing with bum back and forth because neither of us had caught up on the thread. This is our entire PM exchange:
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Im dead now sorry lol good luck! didnt check thread... ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: I've been complacent plenty of times as town. Gotta remember I was pretty active for the last lynch too. No idea how much more active I need to be at the time.
Why would I pressure you in PM though? Explain.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: I don't know you've been... complacent this game. Id expect for you to be a little more judgmental about what people are doing. It makes me cautious. Not that you haven't been very helpful as town, it just seems like you are satisfied with where the game is going. Do you think town is going to win this game? I mean so far the only scum kills are modkills. It seems like you would be pressuring everyone, especially me with, for all i know, the only PM contact you have. I'm not normally a confrontation guy, but I will speak my opinions. But I try to lean more on facts then my gut. If you are mafia, kill me fast ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: why would I think that? I'm a simple man
oh well about Dr.H, doesn't really effect me about what he thinks about me.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Just warning you ahead of time, Dr. H sent me a death post. If he dies, Im posting it regardless, but he does have a paragraph on you, not really saying you are mafia, but investing alot of wariness on how you play and what has happened. It kinda had an effect on how I'm viewing you, but Im just keeping an open mind hope you dont think i dont like you or something
as for Dr. H, his death will be enlightening if it happens, and I dont have many doubts about him considering how much hes invested in to just proving himself as town. This death post is nothing special.
Would be funky if he had some mafia death editing thing where he could pick what he pops up as, but that would be insane. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: Nothing at the moment. I'm not surprised he's suspicious of me - everyone always is.
I don't know how he arrived at the conclusion youngminii is a possible traitor though.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: well dr. h is the person I choose. I was wary of picking fishball because he seemed a likely virus target. Dr. H claims immunity.
He has minor suspicions of you. But more so about Pandain, and then he thinks youngmini is a traitor?
Well anything you want me to tell him? I dont think he knows you were the first pick. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: lol. Depending on who dies tonight, I think he might be the scummiest player in the game. I remember he said he could confirm himself, just like Dr.H did and so far he has never made mention of that fact again.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: hope he gets a vig to the face. Otherwise he just a player causing arguments that lead no where and distract town from the vibrant display of information we have. Aeres first though. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: What do you think of Pandain?
This whole aeres thing seems pretty straight forward. But I also genuinely feel he might just be blissfully unaware of what he was doing at the time. What would it profit him as a red to claim BG after he thought someone did. Then he leaves for the night... and then everyone believes hes BG wen DC is still alive? It seems very shallow, but I would have no problem lynching him because of this. He doesnt seem all that intelligent after this. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: where are you!
Well one bodyguard name wouldn't hurt right? lol
Yeah but if i visit him the same day he gets poisoned, i catch the m-rus, and so does the medic if they arent ADD like orgo or something.
Im all aboard the voting block, but I want to see the results of the mayor lynch+night kills before I speculate too much. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: Meh, don't ask him for the name of a bodyguard. Imagine you're in his shoes, get a PM from some guy asking for Bodyguard info. You'd think he was Scum
I think I'd rather mention Fishball should get medic protection over plague protection. Since he has the ability to find potential Scum in his circle I'd rather keep him alive. Also since you're a Mason we should try and vote together to form a powerful voting block.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: I trust him a lot more then i did since orgo died (lol?) so I'm willing to make those ties, but im reluctant because he seems like a likely candidate for the M-rus. Dr.H seems like a fabulous person to pm just from him being immune. Then maybe if i can persuade him to give me the name of a bodyguard, that would be fantastic, unless hes mafia. Otherwise a BG would be someone I could relay all the info to so if I die, Dr. H and the BG can confirm that this guy is 100% legit. The only thing is how Im going to get information with this role... I guess I'll go with fishball first since plague docs dont have to target the mayor. Do you mind if you hint that they should vaccinate fishball, since it would sound pretty obvious coming from me. I can hopefully get something from fishball, as he already stated he has a method to check people in his circle. Medic protection would be awesome on him as well ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: I think we're better off trying to do things quietly in the background. What do you think about using your ability to talk with Fishball for the next Day? Having him + his circle could be great. How much do you trust him though?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Yeah he's not exactly a prime target if he doesn't get mayor. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: Meh, I'm still not buying it 100%. I guess I'm just uneasy as to why he's so desperate. If his ability is to coordinate plague doctors then how is that the super power role that he led me to believe? :/
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: My bad he he roleclaimed some plague poker or something. He's got something with not being able to be poisoned, and being able to confirm himself if everything was sunshine and daisies in mafia. I still prefer myself as mayor, but he seems to be intent, and nothing screams scum from what I've read. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: He claimed it? I've only skimmed the thread so I may have missed it. Regardless he's getting extremely desperate for Mayor position based on promises. I'm not going for it. He's already lashed out at so many people I think if he even got Mayor he'd have no support.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Opinions on Dr.H? Claiming Plague doctor I guess, and when he cures or makes you immune, you get a PM saying he did? A viable person to get bodyguards, and Im guessing Plague docs cant get poisoned, but mayor can. If he can confirm this to me, and mafia doesnt have this sort of doctor, I can make a circle for him. And I think people are merging role and alignment cops together, which seems slightly naive considering everyone has a special role. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: why did you drop out of the Mayor race? o.0
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Any plans for the first lynch? I'll vocalize it for you, and i dont care who. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: lol umm ok we'll see ^_^
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Sounds good, VOTE FOR ME THOUGH OK? ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: Nah I'm not going to reveal my role just yet. Hell you could be a Scum Mason for all I know. Besides it's just starting and I'd rather read the thread and jot down notes for now anyway.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Exactly, and i can pick one of my bodyguards eventually and put some information with him just in case. I'm not going to disclose who I choose, but if im mayor i can tell them what I can do safely. Is your role something you'd like to share, or would you rather keep it quiet? I'd understand considering it's insane mafia, and artanis is likely to put some misleading scum roles like 'can PM people' or something. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: oh thats even better than I thought. So you can actually end up talking to 2 or 3 people in the same night? You can almost be like a behind the scenes Mayor.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: I knew you would! And I dont switch, I get to PM you the rest of the game, and keep adding to the list. ----------------------------------------- Original Message From Ace: So you're basically a mason that gets to switch targets. And you know how I feel about Masons - they are awesome ^_^.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From bumatlarge: Woooo PM rights. Im a stalker townie, beginning of every day i can get pm rights with some person, and keep them forever. Nifty. I think that would be pretty decent for a mayor. And I think I can kinda prove my innocence with this? Provided mafia does not have a role meant to copy this one.
Thoughts?
That's the PMs from the game between me and bumatlarge. Take it how you will as I doubt this makes me suspicious. [/QUOTE]
this does a lot to ease my mind about you, thanks for posting this.
On November 04 2010 08:24 CubEdIn wrote: Well if you want my opinion about the blue pill thing (let's assume I'm not lying), it's either: 1. A note from the admin. But it would be pointless, because I didn't take the blue pill. 2. A mafia being able to influence the Radio as well. It would make sense, half Glasse, half Mafia.
I don't think this is the case. Otherwise Glasse would have said something. Anyone else thinks it's kinda weird that DCLXVI would have a "leave town role" like Aeres and potentially youngminii? Either that or Node is BSing us.
Glasse may not know that the other half is Mafia. And I doubt that the mods are putting things there because the original post says "there will be no clues.". So yeah.
no clues pointing toward profiles
there will be information about roles/night actions however. this was confirmed by lsb earlier
coagulation is not a very smart player, it is likely he made several slipups/openly defended scumbuddies in ways a townie would never do. time to go post by post. I'll post anything I find, Everyon should look through his posts here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Coagulation&gb=date Note Mafia Will probably bus him now, just because someone votes Coagulation/attacks him does NOT mean they are town.
On October 30 2010 00:26 Coagulation wrote: We need someone who is good at mafia but terrible at manipulation.
pandain is probably the best candidate under these parameters. he is an extremely organized and tactical scum hunter his analyses skills are good and he has a good level head about what needs to be done.
i have also noticed that he is a terrible lier and his posting style makes his motives extremely transparent. this would make it much easier for us to spot a slip up if he is mafia. and greatly increases the chances that he would fail at getting away with scum moves if it turns out he is a red.
immediate support for pandain. doesn't trust bum/fishball/me who have roles that could hugely benefit town. basically says "I'm voting for pandain because hes bad at mafia"
On October 30 2010 08:07 Coagulation wrote: Because hes not trying really really super hard to be mayor i figure hes just a good honest townie offering to take the spot and do his best.
you guys are gonna start tearing each other to shreds over the role makes me think you got something else going on.
bad defense of pandain
On October 30 2010 08:07 Coagulation wrote: Because hes not trying really really super hard to be mayor i figure hes just a good honest townie offering to take the spot and do his best.
you guys are gonna start tearing each other to shreds over the role makes me think you got something else going on.
disassociates himself from the argument between me and pandain even though most of coag's posts are posts attacking me lol
On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote: Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role:
Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected.
This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM.
DAMN. That's so true. I was so excited to figure out the connection that I forgot to stay suspicious. IF Bill Murry died while using Sticky, then it's VERY LIKELY that Sticky is infected with Murrayitis. If Sticky pokes someone that would pass it on... Then DrH pretends to be notified.
You're speculating on mod logic based on the storyline of a past game
pretty far out there if you ask me. this is getting way too meta.
I disagree. Your role is "Sticky". You admitted that yourself. It cannot be denied that the theme of the game revolves around Bill Murray. My logic isn't based on the storyline of a past game. It's based on finding connections around the theme:
- Bill Murray died in Haunted Mafia giving rise to Murrayitis - Bill Murray died in Mafia XXXI holding a sticky named Sticky - There is an actual role called "Sticky" - Sticky's ability involves poking people
On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 1
Rise and Shine! It is now Day 1! And no one is infected by Murrayitis... Yet.
If no one has Murrayitis yet, then no PERSON has Murrayitis yet. However, a Sticky might. That Sticky is you.
the plot thickens.
however i cant help but notice that he revealed his role honestly ( as far as we know it was pretty much confirmed by the fact that we found a logical link to it in another game that fits perfectly?) then there is still the chance hes mafia sticky. but I cant see a scum willingly giving up this kind of info like that.
I hate the way drH plays but his story is starting to come together. i still worry that he is too fucking good at this game to chance him possibly gaining such an advantage as a red.
after attacking me a lot he backs off very softly here saying my story is probably legit.
On October 31 2010 14:10 Coagulation wrote: Dodging a lynch sounds alot like a scum role.. anyone else think so?
pushing suspicion onto YM for no real reason. Makes me heavily doubt youngminii is mafia. No reason to do this if coag and ym are both mafia
On October 31 2010 19:08 Coagulation wrote: OK i have caught up on reading
1. DOCH naturally I still cant trust you 100% until I can see some of your claims of verifying yourself come to light. I really hope your not a red otherwise we may as well just bend over and let you get to fucking.
2. you have a moron for a bodyguard
3. Node is asking for invites to the circle? i would think twice before letting people who request in. looks like 1 red was already in the circle. he dies and now Node starts asking to get in?(could be mafia trying to get a man back inside) looks bad but not gonna dwell on it too much yet..
4. pandain I dunno what the hell you are talking about. Im not gonna keep my mouth shut if someone looks scummy just because they are not around to defend themselves.
soft attack on node, makes me think node is blue as well
On November 01 2010 06:32 Coagulation wrote: dt needs to investigate pandain for sure considering he was running for mayor.
also the other people who wanted elected mayor bumatlarge fishball annul ghrur glasse node
also worth keeping an eye on node who is asking for people to invite him into circle.
asks DT to investigate pandain. since I think they are scumbuddies this seems like a bad play. Unless Pandain is godfather in which case it makes 100% sense.
On November 01 2010 13:02 Coagulation wrote: mods mistakenly confirmed pandain as town?
ouch! my advice to you is next time you're mafia just go inactive instead of outing all your friends
On November 01 2010 13:55 Coagulation wrote: its pretty clear to me that pandain is just butthurt that doch won the mayor candidacy instead of him and now hes taking his frustration out on him for beating him at the mayor race and not coming thru with what he promised in the process.
as much as i dont trust doch at the moment unfortunately there is not much we can do. no amount of arguing is gonna make him say "oh damn your right im a red you got me" so its pointless.
constant unending defense of pandain
On November 01 2010 14:00 Coagulation wrote: why the fuck would a red attack a red. i think your red drh
see?
almost all of his posts are terrible and unthought out attacks on me combined with soft defenses on pandain
On November 01 2010 20:18 Coagulation wrote: regarding drh situation.
1. doch is a red and hes been playing us the whole time and now has town by the balls.
2. doch is a blue and due to his terrible misleading promises and false claims of being able to confirm his role/alignment he has basically handed the mafia the ability to have a fucking field day on the town causing panic and distrust to cloud everyones views. mafia has town by the balls.
can you see maybe why im a little mad at the situation doch?
regarding aeres
he made a shitty move and it looks extremely scummy whether hes a red or just an inexperienced player that made a mistake i have no idea. so far the best anyone has to go on and everyone seems ok with that. maybe a little too ok. keep an eye on it.
regarding youngminii
this was doch number 1 suspect 75% of the game so much that he had made him his first lynch as mayor. right out the gate doch is gunning to take him out. then what happens? youngminii dodges the lynch ? now for some reason doch isnt even thinking twice about youngminii? did i miss something? Was he pardoned or something? Im wondering what your stance is on youngmainii currently, doch?. the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy.
he attacked YM pretty early, before the aeres situation, and now they are doing it again. if YM is a role that starts as mafia and becomes town after being lynched there would be a huge incentive to get him lynched.
On November 02 2010 12:09 Pandain wrote: oh wtf, im almost at 2000? screw the part1/2/3/4/5 crud. I'm a do a full blown analysis.
Don't expect me to post for a while :p
I won't lie to you, I probably won't even bother reading it. I already know what it will say.
On November 02 2010 12:14 infinitestory wrote:
On November 02 2010 12:10 L wrote:
On November 02 2010 11:44 infinitestory wrote:
On November 02 2010 11:40 L wrote:
On November 02 2010 11:18 NB wrote: hmm, i wana have you guys opinion on this: so Node said DCLXVI will die tonight! we also lost our 1 and only bodyguard!
who should the medic protect night2? mayor or DCLXVI assuming we only have 1 medic?....
Uh, so, that's... a town mediated hit?
Mafia doesn't send in their hits during the day unless they have a dayvig, and if they had a Dayvig, they could just shoot just prior to the vote close to fuck over Node/Medic reactions. So Node's probably not detecting dayvigs.
Did I miss something day 1? I'm pretty sure I did.
At the very end of Night 1, Node claimed that he knew BrownBear was going to die. He then claimed that his role was "oracle," which allowed him to see at the beginning of each day one player who's slated to die that night. DCLXVI is, according to Node, slated to die tonight. Possible connections between Node's role and the +1 part of mafia's 2+1 KP have been brought up. One suggestion in particular says that there's a red with the role of killing one guy randomly each night, and Node gets to find out who that is at the start of the day. The possibility of Node being a red baiting medics has also been brought up.
The +1 makes sense, but that means that mafia would have had to..
hmm.
Node, when did you recieve the two PMs notifying you who's going to die?
Like I said, he claims it's at the beginning of the day each day. He also claims that he received QuickStriker's name at the beginning of Day 1, but QuickStriker was modkilled at the end of Day 1, so he then received BrownBear's name.
I have known this for quite a while, but it just got me thinking: What do you think the odds are that the mods would change the "oracled" target if that target was modkilled? Idk, it just seems to me that if the player was modkilled, well that's tough shit for the oracle, his power is wasted for the day. Thinking about this, Node actually does seem pretty fishy.
Eye of Suspicion
That's just speculation. Node seems to think there is a predetermined list and that if a player os modkilled a new target is chosen. Or there is a mafia killing role that must decide on a kill ahead of time
(Decide 1 kill in the day + 2 kills at night) and node is aware of the day choice
there are many possibilities here, I don't think we can draw any serious conclusions from. obviously due to the gravity of his roleclaim his posting can not be ignored.
Haha fair enough. I just wanted to put Eye of Suspicion on someone...
I was gonna on Lexpar, but he posted and placated me. It scares me that we haven't heard from Divinek...
so your basically saying that your just trying to accuse people for the sake of accusing people? really? thats as anti town as it gets.
well that didn't turn out true now did it? seems my initial instinct that jcarls was town was right
On November 02 2010 21:30 Glasse wrote: Why would a red be able to post a small message on the day post?
Was that a slip? or more bullshit?
starts attacking glasse, this makes me more sure glasse is pro-town
On November 03 2010 09:04 Coagulation wrote: i think if anyone is painted red by the aeres lynch its youngminii he was the very first to throw around "LAL" and "lynch first ask questions later" with zero reasoning.
unless something significant happens overnight im gonna be watching youngminni closely.
more attack on YM
he didn't seem to defend anyone but pandain. both should be lynched. someone else should comb his posts and see what they find
On November 04 2010 09:11 Nemesis wrote: Things are moving rather fast
I think it was pretty obvious that bum was gonna die soon, because of his roleclaim. Too many people roleclaiming-.-
Also, Pandain, you better hurry up with that "confirm your role" promise of yours. I think that you might very well have until next day phase before you get lynched.
If we vote for double lynch today, does that mean that we get double lynch the next day phase? Also how does double lynch work: do the two people with the most votes get lynched? Do we get to vote twice for double lynch?
yes and yes
dunno fi we can use it twice in a row
it starts tomorrow. we each vote for two targets and the top two die.
On November 04 2010 09:11 Nemesis wrote: Things are moving rather fast
I think it was pretty obvious that bum was gonna die soon, because of his roleclaim. Too many people roleclaiming-.-
Also, Pandain, you better hurry up with that "confirm your role" promise of yours. I think that you might very well have until next day phase before you get lynched.
If we vote for double lynch today, does that mean that we get double lynch the next day phase? Also how does double lynch work: do the two people with the most votes get lynched? Do we get to vote twice for double lynch?
yes and yes
dunno fi we can use it twice in a row
it starts tomorrow. we each vote for two targets and the top two die.
I don't mean twice in a row, but if there is a double lynch this day phase, do we get to vote twice on who to lynch?
it activtes next day phase and you vote for two different targets, you can't stack 2 votes on the same target
On November 04 2010 09:18 Nemesis wrote: Oops it seems that my post didn't go through
Should we use double lynch next day phase then?
i'm not totally sure you understand how it works.
we have to vote for double lynch. if a majority of people vote for double lynch, we can use it tomorrow. we can't use it today.
yes we should use it. we need to start looking through the thread for who else defended pandain or if anyone defended coagulation at all. those people are suspicious.
Alright, here's an assignment. We're gonna analyse all the posts about Pandain to see who else defended him suspiciously. We're all gonna do a certain amount of the posts in this thread.
Each person will do a different page. There are 6 pages of Pandain posts.
I'll take the third page, because I like the number 3 and its around the middle of the game when he is campaigning.
Someone call each page, go post by post and post any interesting findings that might lead to other mafia. Now we get aggressive. Line em up and knock em down.
immediately apparent is pandain/coagulation both tried to spread mistrust o fishball because he used "secret circle" that could be very dangerous or wasn't helpful to town
anyone else who used this argument gets an FoS. Does anyone recall who else used this argument against Fishball as a strong point?
On October 30 2010 23:19 deconduo wrote: Ok, the election seems to have gotten out of hand a lot. Right now I don't like ANY of the 3 leading candidates:
Fishball - I've said a few times I just don't trust the whole circle thing.
Dr. H - Just seems, I dunno, off somehow. The timing of when he started to run was weird. He has a huge bandwagon overnight as well. It reeks imo.
Pandain - I put my vote on him initially, because between him and fishball I'd much prefer him. I feel he's the least likely to be scum of all 3, but I don't think he'd be an amazing mayor. In previous games I've played with him he was a bit all over the place. However, given the choice between those 3 I would pick him as the 'safe' option.
So I'm going to change back to my original vote for now, bumatlarge. The fact that he has not been pushing so hard like the others reassures me as well.
I didn't like this post by Deconduo. Now he's anti-pandain but it could be a bus? IDK seems unlikely the mafia would bus Pandain right away at this point to me, but why were you initially trusting of Pandain in the first place? I'd just like a response from you that's all.
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
SiNiquity is my first choice at the moment. Similar post to youngminii but I feel more confident that his actual vote was scummy than youngs.
I feel that Pandain or BumAtLarge have the highest chances of being scum mayor so I'm looking at their supporters and posting atm.
There is some truth to this, I've been looking through the thread and I've noticed a little something relevant. I think a few of us have suggested lynching a candidate. If there was no mafia candidate, I'd imagine a few scum would say that would seem like a good idea. But it was basically you, fishball and myself who have hinted at doing this. No one commented on it. I think it's likely one of the candidates are scum. Though we only really mentioned it when we were looking like we were gaining soe ground in the race. Kill Pandain I say :D
Pandain is my second choice for now but I'm not sure since he claims to have an uber important role. But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
I have a weird feeling about Nemesis. his vote is for pandain but iirc he supported me mostly in this thread. correct me if I'm wrong maybe I'm thinking about someone else.
Also if the boogerthrower knows the identity of the mafia voter somehow, come out and claim. You'll be medic protected 100%.
I don't understand why I'm under suspicion except for a couple facts: 1.Like 5 people voted me without a "sufficient" explanation. 2.I'm one of the running canidates.
Obviously the second one is the most convincing one, as I severely doubt that mafia could just sit back and let town take the election. So that leaves Dr. H(to be confirmed), Fishball, Bumatlarge, and Me.
The fact that people voted for you without sufficient explanation is exactly why you are under suspicion. What reason would they have to vote for you at all? There were plenty of candidates that started running (myself and ghrur to name a couple off the top of my head) that got no votes. Why would they choose you without any good reason to?
I'm more concerned with the way he just handed the election to me after it was clear I was winning, when he was so critical of me before, and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
wut?
Again, I really have been really arragont in this game. Without a shadow of a doubt, you ARE a better player than me. I was more concerned that I may have a better role and the fact if you are town you are a valuable asset(and you can confirm yourself as town.) I've passed myself off as expierenced, when really I don't have anything to back that up. I need to play some more games before I can earn that respect.
Also my role can still only "indirectly" confirm me. You would understand but I don't want to give too much away. Plus the fact that you're winning makes it easier to concede :p
This was the first post that made me think Pandain is probably scum.
I didn't get much out of page 3, except for the mafia agenda focused on making people distrust the idea of the town circle in the first place.
On November 04 2010 10:08 youngminii wrote: I think the fact that Pandain has 6 pages (100 posts each) of posts mostly to do with his interaction with DrH, then starting to lurk after the attention was brought on him indicates a little bit of his scumminess, don't ya think?
Lucky break with the mafia retard. I honestly thought infinitestory was more scummy than most others.
i felt the same
if infinitestory is mafia and this is some kind of complex super-bus he deserves MVP
Not if you think it will make you a mafia target. Unless you can give us some information by roleclaiming that will lead us to a mafia lynch, keep it to yourself
On November 04 2010 10:13 youngminii wrote: Hang on, he says his role is ADD Detective but he RNGs a target. But the ADD Doctor has a 10% chance of killing his patient if his patient wasn't 'sick'. Shouldn't that make an ADD Detective a Detective that gets a wrong reading 10% of the time?
Food for thought, don't look into it too much (yet).
meh, I doubt it's exactly the same. I'm inclined to believe him because he fished for other ADD DT's in the same way I did for other stickys.
I'd think it's more likely he has a 100% chance of investigating correctly, since orgolove actually had a 100% chance of saving right?
On November 04 2010 10:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Not if you think it will make you a mafia target. Unless you can give us some information by roleclaiming that will lead us to a mafia lynch, keep it to yourself
well lets hope the person i vote for is lynched AND is a mafia and i can activate my superpowers
the only people who should be roleclaiming at this point are people who can out a mafia with their role. if a DT finds a mafia, come out. otherwise keep it to yourself. don't give the mafia ANYTHING to work with.
On November 04 2010 10:13 youngminii wrote: Hang on, he says his role is ADD Detective but he RNGs a target. But the ADD Doctor has a 10% chance of killing his patient if his patient wasn't 'sick'. Shouldn't that make an ADD Detective a Detective that gets a wrong reading 10% of the time?
Food for thought, don't look into it too much (yet).
meh, I doubt it's exactly the same. I'm inclined to believe him because he fished for other ADD DT's in the same way I did for other stickys.
I'd think it's more likely he has a 100% chance of investigating correctly, since orgolove actually had a 100% chance of saving right?
Yeah but I'm just saying there's the possibility of him lying about his roleclaim, since I've never seen an ADD role that wasn't a "x% chance of getting the opposite result" type of thing. Oh well Coagulation's mafia anyway, bus or not so no use worrying about it now.
By the way, Pandain voted at 10:06 TL time and hasn't posted in this thread (I was giving him time to post before writing this). At a time where someone should be defending themselves heavily instead of lurking like he is, I think it's fair to say he's either not playing well or he's very scummy.
he might be under silence orders
if he is mafia the best move is for him to just shut up and not give us any information. if i was sure i was gonna be lynched I'd just stop posting.
On November 04 2010 10:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote: detective is probably the worst role for a mafia to fake in any game, this game in particular tbh
o.0
You'd be surprised. Millers + Sanity = lots of room to fakeclaim.
In a game where no role is certain it's hard to fake. No one knows what roles exist in the game so it's hard to fake rolechecks when you have to make shit up. That's why I feel Godfather is underpowered in this game as well, nothing is cut and dry.
On November 04 2010 10:26 youngminii wrote: His type of detective is easier to fakeclaim than others, since (if he is fakeclaiming), he doesn't have to follow a "check me and tell everyone what I am as proof" kinda thing, I mean as long as people are roleclaiming, he can fake a check on people that have already roleclaimed.
Perhaps we should start thinking about who to lynch (apart from pandain) tomorrow.
I'm going with Nemesis.
I doubt InfiniteStory is mafia unless he's really really really really really smart.
On November 04 2010 10:30 youngminii wrote: I would agree with Nemesis but that was pushed forward by Ace. I'm still wary of bum's death post to be honest.
Shouldn't you be as well?
What was pushed forward by me? bum never had a death post, Dr.H and I revealed we were both Masoned to him and I revealed the PMs between us.
@infinitestory : I was talking about standard games. It's either one or the other. If there are Millers in the game I doubt the rolecheck would return Miller as that just defeats the point of the role.
ahh ok.
btw bum did have a death post or two. DrH posted it somewhere in the couple pages after the day post.
bums death post was just revealing something he PM'd to ace which ace posted anyway
On November 04 2010 10:49 youngminii wrote: Wasn't Pandain's main 600 post argument against DrH the fact that he 'lied' and he couldn't confirm himself 100% because he got roleblocked?
Now it's day 3 and Pandain can't confirm himself which is a bigger lie than DrH's? Does this not strike you as fucking stupid at all Pandain? Couldn't you have come up with a better argument/roleclaim?
First of all I still don't see how if I find mafia that doesn't confirm me. Now obviously at most I could do if mafia would be to claim a townie was mafia, and then they get lynched. But then next day, I get lynched. That is definitely not beneficial for mafia.
@KtheZ, we're actually different roles, his is in fact even better than mine :/
it is good for mafia to keep outing confirmed townies (mafia know who all the townies are) and then later bus their weakest player to "confirm" you though
if coagulation is the normal retard (not mafia retard) there is no way infinitestory could have predicted this as mafia and that would actually further clear him imo
On November 04 2010 10:59 Pandain wrote: If I die, FoS on KtheZ for pushing me so hard with illogical reasons.
At least Dr. H has had decent ones....
On November 04 2010 10:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if a vig hits pandain we might have better information for our double lynch
:O
What illogical reasons? I simply ask why it took you so long to roleclaim and why your roleclaim clearly overlaps with a previously claimed role.
and what does FoS mean :/
Because roleclaiming was plainly idiotic. It's not like I'm going to claim "Hey mafia, I have a role where I can find out people's alignments!"
Also infinite has a good point with the doctor/plague doctor(town does have both fyi)
FoS=finger of suspicion.
Note that mafia also had their own plague doctor, so there may be role-checkers for the mafia also. So the standings right now is that you claim to be Garbage collector, and your results have turned up OBVIOUSLY unconfirmable results (who in their right mind would say "I'm not safe omg")
mafia doesnt need an alignment checker since mafia know everybodies alignment
On November 04 2010 10:59 Pandain wrote: If I die, FoS on KtheZ for pushing me so hard with illogical reasons.
At least Dr. H has had decent ones....
On November 04 2010 10:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if a vig hits pandain we might have better information for our double lynch
:O
What illogical reasons? I simply ask why it took you so long to roleclaim and why your roleclaim clearly overlaps with a previously claimed role.
and what does FoS mean :/
Because roleclaiming was plainly idiotic. It's not like I'm going to claim "Hey mafia, I have a role where I can find out people's alignments!"
Also infinite has a good point with the doctor/plague doctor(town does have both fyi)
FoS=finger of suspicion.
Note that mafia also had their own plague doctor, so there may be role-checkers for the mafia also. So the standings right now is that you claim to be Garbage collector, and your results have turned up OBVIOUSLY unconfirmable results (who in their right mind would say "I'm not safe omg")
mafia doesnt need an alignment checker since mafia know everybodies alignment
I noticed, which is why I think hes lying about his role/role action
he's lying because its plainly a pro town role? that doesnt make sense
On November 04 2010 11:19 Ace wrote: But he checked you and Nemesis. Maybe he was suspicious of you, but when was he suspicious of Nemesis?
Basically if he's looking for alignment checks then he'd be checking the people he felt were the scummiest players right?
So I guess the real question here is to see if Pandain was always checking who he felt was Scum based on his posts in the thread. The problem here is that Dr.H was his main target.
That being said if Pandain felt that you and Nemesis were supporting Dr.H then maybe his checks do add up.
mayor isn't immune to rolechecks of any sort
good point. why wouldn't he check me or youngminii. he basically just confirmed the two players most connected to him and his arguments as pro-town. odd choices.
the fact that its random makes it REALLY dumb for him to say he can indirectly confirm it since he has to rely on RNG'ing a mafia
it's also convenient that he happened to clear infinitestory and nemesis with his RNG'd alignment checks, two players i felt strongly would be mafia if pandain was also red
On November 04 2010 11:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I say we lynch Ace and KtheZ if pandain flips blue. If he flips red we lynch Nemesis and Deconduo.
that's why we should use a vig hit IMO
Excuse me? Explain sir.
I'm not impressed with your "scumhunting" in this game, you're basically picking the weakest targets. I feel like if mafia were going to hit any experienced player it would be you first and you didn't roleclaim to bumatlarge even though he was probably the surest blue in the game and the only one you could PM with (to our knowledge)
If you're mafia you'd also be the ideal person to save with a bus. It comes down to the lynch turnout but if pandain turns blue I don't have a better target besides perhaps infinitestory.
On November 04 2010 12:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if we're going to kill DC we should vig hit him, not lynch him
DC: move your bomb from coagulation to pandain
we vig hit DC and blow up pandain and someone else and then we dont have to waste a lynch on DC
what about the other bomb DC has he thinks it's on a more likely townie than red
He said 50/50
I don't trust DC's roleclaim. I'm ok with lynching Pandain as long as we're sure Coagulation will die the next day. he could be mafia trying to get us to waste 2 days of lynches though.
On November 04 2010 11:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I say we lynch Ace and KtheZ if pandain flips blue. If he flips red we lynch Nemesis and Deconduo.
that's why we should use a vig hit IMO
Excuse me? Explain sir.
I'm not impressed with your "scumhunting" in this game, you're basically picking the weakest targets. I feel like if mafia were going to hit any experienced player it would be you first and you didn't roleclaim to bumatlarge even though he was probably the surest blue in the game and the only one you could PM with (to our knowledge)
If you're mafia you'd also be the ideal person to save with a bus. It comes down to the lynch turnout but if pandain turns blue I don't have a better target besides perhaps infinitestory.
If you give him such an explanation, give me one too!
you came out of intense lurking only to press pandain the hardest, if he turns up blue I think that makes you the most suspicious
On November 04 2010 12:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if we're going to kill DC we should vig hit him, not lynch him
DC: move your bomb from coagulation to pandain
we vig hit DC and blow up pandain and someone else and then we dont have to waste a lynch on DC
what about the other bomb DC has he thinks it's on a more likely townie than red
He said 50/50
I don't trust DC's roleclaim. I'm ok with lynching Pandain as long as we're sure Coagulation will die the next day. he could be mafia trying to get us to waste 2 days of lynches though.
coag is our surest lynch, we shouldn't pull back on it because of a sudden roleclaim
On November 04 2010 11:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I say we lynch Ace and KtheZ if pandain flips blue. If he flips red we lynch Nemesis and Deconduo.
that's why we should use a vig hit IMO
Excuse me? Explain sir.
I'm not impressed with your "scumhunting" in this game, you're basically picking the weakest targets. I feel like if mafia were going to hit any experienced player it would be you first and you didn't roleclaim to bumatlarge even though he was probably the surest blue in the game and the only one you could PM with (to our knowledge)
If you're mafia you'd also be the ideal person to save with a bus. It comes down to the lynch turnout but if pandain turns blue I don't have a better target besides perhaps infinitestory.
Except if Coag flips red, infinitestory is pretty much confirmed.
Looks like, town is set on lynching me if Pandain turns up red. I'll see if I can change your minds if he does indeed turn up red.
That's true.
I say we just stick with the surest thing. Lynch Coag today, vig hit pandain tonight, use our double lynch depending on the results, town can discuss it when it happens as new information will likely be available.
On November 04 2010 11:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I say we lynch Ace and KtheZ if pandain flips blue. If he flips red we lynch Nemesis and Deconduo.
that's why we should use a vig hit IMO
Excuse me? Explain sir.
I'm not impressed with your "scumhunting" in this game, you're basically picking the weakest targets. I feel like if mafia were going to hit any experienced player it would be you first and you didn't roleclaim to bumatlarge even though he was probably the surest blue in the game and the only one you could PM with (to our knowledge)
If you're mafia you'd also be the ideal person to save with a bus. It comes down to the lynch turnout but if pandain turns blue I don't have a better target besides perhaps infinitestory.
How is picking Pandain weak when you yourself pointed out he was scummy? Bum and I BOTH agreed he was fishy. Several other players also said Pandain was scummy. So please do explain how me saying Pandain is scummy means I'm picking on a weak player. If he's playing like obvious Scum then guess what - he's probably Scum. You seem to be trying to save face with every lynch by saying "well if we're wrong, look at this person!". You pegged Pandain as scum also so how does that make me Scummy and you innocent?
It doesn't, I want to lynch Pandain. I want a vig to hit him tonight. He is my #2 suspect, I've never gone back on this
Also that's a WIFOM argument. If any experienced player is going to be protected it would probably be me and the circle never ends. There have also been many games where I've actually lived till Day 3 and was innocent. So what's your reasoning for that?
Secondly why would I roleclaim to bum? Everyone who knows how I play KNOWS I don't roleclaim unless I have to. I also do not share information unless people have to know. So why would I role claim to bum? I never knew if he was innocent, and you can also see in my private messages I said I don't know if he's a Scum Mason. So once again, explain WHY would I roleclaim to an unconfirmed townie? Bum was not the surest blue in the game so stop lying. The ONLY thing we knew about him was that he claimed Mason.
I felt he was the surest blue in the game. I just feel a bit suspicious of you, I'm not lying. Who was the surest blue in the game? IMO bumatlarge was, that's how I percieved it. That's not a lie.
Lastly, there isn't a wagon or pressure on me so where does bussing come into play? Are you trying to undermine me in hopes of setting up a future lynch? Also explain how infinitestory is a better target if Pandain flips blue, when you just claimed we should lynch KtheZ if Pandain flips blue.No. I want to lynch Pandain. I feel like if Pandain wasn't the mafia behind the bandwagon attacks on me, then InfiniteStory was. At least he had the sense to back off when it was clear the arguments weren't working while Pandains tenacity is consistent with his previous games where he was a townie who was just really bad at scumhunting. I think Pandain is mafia and I certainly want him lynched. That hasn't changed.
You are being really wishy-washy. In fact it looks like you'd rather lynch any of us pushing Pandain's lynch as if you KNOW he's going to flip innocent. Pandain is my #2 choice, I want him vig killed or lynched. I haven't gone back on this, I'm just willing to consider the possibility that he isn't mafia. I'm a little bit nervous because I think we're at the point where making a mistake as a town will result in an inevitable defeat and I guess it's making me seem a little wishy-washy.
On November 04 2010 12:24 DCLXVI wrote: Well Doc, you guessed it. Coag was right, I am just trying to save him. Because any real mafia would go to that length to save a teammate who has given up like coag has...
And how does it waste lynches? YOu have already stated that you want to lynch pandain and you seem sure he is mafia, why can't you lynch him today and me tomorrow? I mean if I'm lying then you lynch 2 reds(panda/me) - then coag so 3 reds overall, if I am telling the truth you lynch a red(panda) and one other dies as well(coag) as another scummy player(not sure yet) and me. Seems like it is much better for the town that way, if we just do it your way(coag/panda) then you just get the same result as me lying except you don't know if Im red or blue
You're right. I'm trying to consider what kind of advantage mafia could get from doing this and there isn't one. Why go to that length to save coagulation who is clearly their worst player?
I'll switch my vote to Pandain. I say we go with DC's plan.
what's preventing mafia from hitting you and blowing up your bombs preemptively? Does your bomb switch occur before a hit does?
Fair enough. You're probably the most valuable scumhunter we have.
Can I ask you who you would want lynched if Pandain ended up blue? If that is the case I think Pandain would have been manipulated into his aggressive stance throughout the game. Mafia in games against him (in brownbears game where i was mafia and in haunted where I observed mafia) both decided to take full advantage of his gullibility and how easy it is to manipulate him.
I guess that's why I would look at InfiniteStory cause IS seems to fit that role better than anyone.
I hope there are more DT's and that we have some good information after the night is over.
I'm not a very confident townie and I'll admit I'm a bit easily persuaded. I'm sticking with my convictions in this case and I think you'll find that I've always come back to my senses. I stuck with Aeres and I'm sticking to Pandain now.
I'm going through with DC's gambit. Just because I'm not 100% sure he's telling the truth hardly qualifies me as being all over the place : /
I know I'm town, I know mafia wants me dead. Yes I'm sure the mafia had something to do with it? How do I know? Because Divinek started the arguments people like Pandain/Coag/InfiniteStory were using and he is a confirmed mafia death.
I'm nervous now because I feel there is a lot on the line but to suggest I'm trying to throw the lynch toward anyone other than Coag/Pandain who the town seems to be in full agreement are our two best bets is just not the case.
On November 04 2010 12:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: but the other person could be mafia? why assume they're a townie?
What other person could be mafia, the townie death is for DC dying.
ok, i misread your post, thought you meant the other bomb not on coagulation as being the townie death, my bad.
if DC is indeed the mad hatter there's really no point in him not dying.
if he is th emad hatter and a bomb switch happens before a hit, we could vig hit him and have him move his bomb.
we lynch pandain today: he moves his second bomb (the one not on coagulation) to the target he suspects more vig hits him and sets off the bombs then we have a double lynch the next day
the question is will this benefit us more then whatever kenpachi can do/or claims to be able to do?
On November 04 2010 12:55 Kenpachi wrote: dw, my super powers are not booger related or 50% chance of killing myself.. and no it wouldnt lead to more scum because im fighting them
so your powers work/activiate when a scum is lynched that you voted for yes? that's the impression I got.
Hyperbola has been SUPER inactive this game, but isn't that off considering he ran for mayor on the basis of his great analysis and being a good player (rather than his role):
On October 29 2010 07:47 Hyperbola wrote: Citizens of Insania,
I would like to announce my candidacy for mayor. In light of recent events, most importantly the town's development of many new powers, a new system of government must emerge to quell the chaos that is this town. It has come to our attention that the local mafia has begun to exploit their new abilities and are now aiming for total control of this fine community. In order to successfully repel them, a properly organized inner circle of supertownies must be established. This new circle needs leadership and commitment, and I believe I am the man for the job.
On October 29 2010 07:47 Hyperbola wrote: Citizens of Insania,
I would like to announce my candidacy for mayor. In light of recent events, most importantly the town's development of many new powers, a new system of government must emerge to quell the chaos that is this town. It has come to our attention that the local mafia has begun to exploit their new abilities and are now aiming for total control of this fine community. In order to successfully repel them, a properly organized inner circle of supertownies must be established. This new circle needs leadership and commitment, and I believe I am the man for the job.
Vote for Order! Vote Hyperbola!
On October 29 2010 07:49 CubEdIn wrote: *heads to the voting thread to vote for Hyperbola*
*giggles*
See, this is bad, we can't have this. Look how much nonsense he spouted. No of that means anything. IT MEANS NOTHING. Then this dude just votes for him? Sorry charlie not having it. You need to be voting for me.
If I am not voed in, I will be Then I will become a Pandain/BM (without the getting modkilled part) and just bug everyone.
But if I am! I will be :D Everything will go under my scrutinizer eye and no one will get any biased treatment. Except for maybe Ace, who I owe some respect for that penalty mafia game. He's allowed to do his own thing and not vote for me.
An interesting strategy. You call me out on my magnificent speech and then proceed to say almost nothing yourself. Then you direct attention away from yourself and give the illusion of trying to help town by saying random things about the game. I don't think Cube was being serious when he posted that, but I however, was. I am very adept at organization and strategic play. Although I may have not been in as many mafia games and tend to stay quiet, I can still manage a team and have done so in games I was mafia in. The same skills can apply to town if we are able to sort out who's who and create a legitimate town circle. Furthermore, I am very adept at sorting out what's what's legitimate and what's bullshit. Unless there are some specific roles which may overcome my keen eye, I can guarantee you that there will be NO leaks in the town circle if I am voted mayor. As for the issue of whether I am mafia or not... you can be damn well sure that the first person to announce their candidacy for mayor as I did had better be really fucking good at defending themselves from clues if they're mafia. Other than that fact, I cannot guarantee anything. But that is what most elections are: a leap of faith.
A hostile defense and further claims that he is a good scumhunter with a keen eye. No leaks in the town circle? What town circle, considering as far as we know you can't PM? Odd post.
He's called out on that later and then claims town could probably talk on irc but Artanis tells him nope.
On October 29 2010 10:24 Hyperbola wrote: All this setback does is simply show that many things can technically be exploited in this game, with the influx of new abilities I believe a great strategy can be devised if the great minds of this game work together under one leader. I am still running for mayor. A vote for Hyperbola is a vote for a brighter future for us all.
On October 29 2010 11:06 Hyperbola wrote: What I am interested in is how forgetforeverine is going to factor into the game. Is it simply a role playing element and can a specific role can utilize it? Or is it just a way of having people "forget" about other mafia games... in which case we can't make arguments based on past actions.
what is forgetforeverine? i don't remember anyone saying anything about this...
On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye.
Parrots the argument of distrust Coagulation was using that "Fishball is untrustworthy because he operates in secret circles/town circle. But, hyperbola, THE ENTIRE BASIS OF YOUR CAMPAIGN WAS ON CREATING A TOWN CIRCLE.
Back to the "Vote pandain cause he's bad and we can tell if hes mafia ez" argument that coagulation used
On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
Ok so these are the aspects of his role (if he's telling the truth): 1. avoid a lynch 2. no talking So I'm thinking his role is the ability to leave town, turn invisible, or hide in the closet for a night. I don't know why he wouldn't role claim but, more importantly, this doesn't seem like a scum-favored role. Think about it: why would scum leave town? Is the mob getting too hot for him? This would seem almost detrimental because if someone has a valid case against him, he can't argue it and just delays the inevitable 1 turn. I think the role is intended to just dodge night actions and simply dodges lynches and forbids speaking as a side effect. So in short, I think youngminii is innocent to some extent... for now.
bit of a defense for youngminii. Coagulation attacked youngminii really hard. This doesn't clear hyperbola though, there are reasons why mafia might attack another mafia but the way coagulation did it was strangely intense. If Coagulation somehow flips blue I'd SERIOUSLY consider hyperbola.
On November 01 2010 07:29 Hyperbola wrote: Lexpar has successfully derailed the thread for like 3/4 of a page, lol. Not that we're really doing anything intense right now. Regarding youngminii, I don't think we really need to get to the bottom of the whole situation just yet as Coagulation stated. I think we should wait till day, analyze the day post and the deaths, and then resume "getting to the bottom of things". But as other people have said before me, role claiming is nothing but detrimental unless it's done right. Do not be like Aeres guys (no offense), his role claim was rash and could put him and others in danger.
On November 01 2010 09:54 Hyperbola wrote: Ok let's not fish for the elder. Why do the mafia's work for them? If he want's to be known he'll say it in the thread.
Regarding Node: His role is really easy to fake. A mafia knows exactly who's going to die and he probably has a role that decided who to kill during the day or is just completely faking it. The reason I think this is because he explicitly asked for medic protection on night 1 and 3 people are now infected. I am assuming that Murrayitis starts off with only 1 host because otherwise it would take very little time to infect half of the town's population. I can't really prove anything right now but Node is now quite suspicious in my eyes.
On November 01 2010 09:20 Misder wrote: @DH Earlier, you said you were going to poke the person you thought is most likely town. So why do you think that jcarls is town?
Agreeable posts, good analysis, cool headed and logical. He didn't make a big roleclaim or bring a lot of attention onto himself and seemed for that reason to be a good target for me.
Awwww that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about me! ... on the internet...
I didn't realize I was actually an important player in this game.
On November 01 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would like to announce that last night I poked jcarlsoniv. I did not receive a PM from Artanis or LSB meaning the poke was successful and jcarlsoniv does not have murrayitis.
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Did you receive any other night actions?
Something stopped my poke from going through to jcarlsoniv.
how fucking convenient.
You do realize it would actually be a smart move for mafia to roleblock DrH? This can really flip either way at this point.
On November 02 2010 08:42 Hyperbola wrote: I honestly do not know who to vote for right now. Nothing seems solid. I'm gonna vote for someone random so I don't get modkilled.
On November 04 2010 08:24 CubEdIn wrote: Well if you want my opinion about the blue pill thing (let's assume I'm not lying), it's either: 1. A note from the admin. But it would be pointless, because I didn't take the blue pill. 2. A mafia being able to influence the Radio as well. It would make sense, half Glasse, half Mafia.
I don't think this is the case. Otherwise Glasse would have said something. Anyone else thinks it's kinda weird that DCLXVI would have a "leave town role" like Aeres and potentially youngminii? Either that or Node is BSing us.
Hyperbola has been mostly pretty inactive and a lot of his posts are just saying things the town had already really been talking about.
I figured a mafia would drop out of the race when Mayor was revealed to be vulnerable to rolechecks and the way with which hyperbola ran his campaign fits this profile. I'd consider him as a second lynch tomorrow. A very strong target if coag flips blue imo
it would only make sense if they were stalling for LYLO which they can't at this point, unless there is a suicide bomber gambit happening but that doesn't make sense either
Pandain/Coag are both good choices. It really comes down to what you feel is best for the town. I'm willing to take my chances with DC's gambit but Coag is the safest choice.
I don't think the voting split is suspicious at all.
No, I thought you were mafia because your play was scummy. You attacked people with little to no reasoning behind it, parroted arguments from a confirmed dead mafia, have been aggressively defended by a confirmed mafia, and went out of your way to focus attacks on me while not reading/understanding my counter arguments and insisting I was lying when several people told you why that wasn't the case
you're talking about the part where I implied I could confirm somebody elses role? i explain what I meant when I said that and it makes perfect sense. go back and read it.
On November 06 2010 05:30 Pandain wrote: We know your town now, but I would do the same thing had I gone back in time.
Not to discredit our glorious Mayor, but we only know he is probably town. He has proven his ability to carry out his role, not that it is a blue role. I'm not saying he should be next up on the chopping block, but it is dangerous to assume something like that.
he would know, of course, if he is mafia what my alignment is ;o
mayor isn't immune to rolechecks, thats part of the reason im a little suspicious about hyperbola. i suspected a mafia mayor candidate would pull back on their campaign when artanis said mayors can be rolechecked
he just said "w/e i can't confirm and i trust you doch so you can be mayor now". it was such a weak post too and it made me seriously consider that he could be scum.
On October 30 2010 23:19 deconduo wrote: Ok, the election seems to have gotten out of hand a lot. Right now I don't like ANY of the 3 leading candidates:
Fishball - I've said a few times I just don't trust the whole circle thing.
Dr. H - Just seems, I dunno, off somehow. The timing of when he started to run was weird. He has a huge bandwagon overnight as well. It reeks imo.
Pandain - I put my vote on him initially, because between him and fishball I'd much prefer him. I feel he's the least likely to be scum of all 3, but I don't think he'd be an amazing mayor. In previous games I've played with him he was a bit all over the place. However, given the choice between those 3 I would pick him as the 'safe' option.
So I'm going to change back to my original vote for now, bumatlarge. The fact that he has not been pushing so hard like the others reassures me as well.
I didn't like this post by Deconduo. Now he's anti-pandain but it could be a bus? IDK seems unlikely the mafia would bus Pandain right away at this point to me, but why were you initially trusting of Pandain in the first place? I'd just like a response from you that's all.
On October 31 2010 08:37 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Have we solidified a day one lynch? I feel like this should be our highest priority right now, we've only got a few hours left. I'm still suggesting youngminii because of his scummish posts. Although I feel like Kenpachi would be a good lynch as well, the possibility that he's afk or something gives him enough reasonable doubt that I don't think he should go day one.
SiNiquity is my first choice at the moment. Similar post to youngminii but I feel more confident that his actual vote was scummy than youngs.
I feel that Pandain or BumAtLarge have the highest chances of being scum mayor so I'm looking at their supporters and posting atm.
There is some truth to this, I've been looking through the thread and I've noticed a little something relevant. I think a few of us have suggested lynching a candidate. If there was no mafia candidate, I'd imagine a few scum would say that would seem like a good idea. But it was basically you, fishball and myself who have hinted at doing this. No one commented on it. I think it's likely one of the candidates are scum. Though we only really mentioned it when we were looking like we were gaining soe ground in the race. Kill Pandain I say :D
Pandain is my second choice for now but I'm not sure since he claims to have an uber important role. But how important can it be if it's less important than mine that is mostly important on its ability to confirm itself?
I have a weird feeling about Nemesis. his vote is for pandain but iirc he supported me mostly in this thread. correct me if I'm wrong maybe I'm thinking about someone else.
Also if the boogerthrower knows the identity of the mafia voter somehow, come out and claim. You'll be medic protected 100%.
I don't understand why I'm under suspicion except for a couple facts: 1.Like 5 people voted me without a "sufficient" explanation. 2.I'm one of the running canidates.
Obviously the second one is the most convincing one, as I severely doubt that mafia could just sit back and let town take the election. So that leaves Dr. H(to be confirmed), Fishball, Bumatlarge, and Me.
The fact that people voted for you without sufficient explanation is exactly why you are under suspicion. What reason would they have to vote for you at all? There were plenty of candidates that started running (myself and ghrur to name a couple off the top of my head) that got no votes. Why would they choose you without any good reason to?
I'm more concerned with the way he just handed the election to me after it was clear I was winning, when he was so critical of me before, and when he claims to have such a huge role that can ALSO confirm itself as being 100% town.
He said "oh i can confirm myself being town" but now he's letting me have it because I can confirm myself as being town?
wut?
Again, I really have been really arragont in this game. Without a shadow of a doubt, you ARE a better player than me. I was more concerned that I may have a better role and the fact if you are town you are a valuable asset(and you can confirm yourself as town.) I've passed myself off as expierenced, when really I don't have anything to back that up. I need to play some more games before I can earn that respect.
Also my role can still only "indirectly" confirm me. You would understand but I don't want to give too much away. Plus the fact that you're winning makes it easier to concede :p
This was the first post that made me think Pandain is probably scum.
I didn't get much out of page 3, except for the mafia agenda focused on making people distrust the idea of the town circle in the first place.
On October 31 2010 08:18 Pandain wrote: Alright, I decided Dr. H would be a better mayor than me. I did somewhat get caught up in my own ego and emotion and realized during the Rally to restore Sanity and/or Fear that, if he can really confirm himself to be 100% town, that I would trust him above myself.
As for that mafia vote, I think it's just a ploy to make people disbelieve him. This is what really stuck with me, why would they do that when they know he would already win? I think it's just a poor/desperate play.
On November 06 2010 07:10 KtheZ wrote: Oh boy! The results are soon. I have the feeling that if pandain flips blue, I have some explaining to do. However, if he really is red, I'm basically confirmed town. Only time will tell.
it could be a bus that doesn't confirm you at all hohoho
On November 06 2010 07:18 Beneather wrote: Coagulation is just begging to not be lynched and just keep pointing the finger at Pandain. I'd say Coagulation is the Mafia Switching my vote to Coagulation .
that's why i'm not going to vote for pandain. coagulation is the more sure target and why would the dying mafia push suspicion onto a different and better mafia player?
none of coags posting/pandain posting makes sense as mafia and as much as you can say WIFOM there is a point when I see that pandain isn't mafia, he's just the worst scumhunter/analyser in the history of mafia
On November 06 2010 09:31 Kenpachi wrote: GOD DAMN IT HOW DID COAG GET LYNCHED ... I might die tonight.. Then i say DrH and DC are Mafia -_-
we might as well lynch you
you are really inactive and now you're accusing me who was basically proved to be town by lexpars death and DC whose gambit makes zero sense as a mafia
On November 06 2010 09:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote: why? i dont think pandain is mafia anymore
none of coags posting/pandain posting makes sense as mafia and as much as you can say WIFOM there is a point when I see that pandain isn't mafia, he's just the worst scumhunter/analyser in the history of mafia
Then how do you explain the secret mafia vote which came at 6:55?
On October 31 2010 09:10 Kenpachi wrote: LOL THE BOOGER. well, would it be that someone has a nosepicking related profile? is he even mafia?
also, i am not the elder guys. Is it even confirmed if HE is the mafia either? ~_~
no obviously not
now that you're here wanna discuss the matter at hand: who should be lynched
cant really say. im not one to decide on inactivity.. right now, i only read posts with my name in it and so far im a suspect again.. Would it be possible to provide evidential clues >_>
>mafia is so fun to read >i only read posts with my names in it
On November 02 2010 06:39 Kenpachi wrote: asdf how does this thread get 30 pages after 10 hours ~_~.. Ill input feedback after im done reading :S.. Mafia is fun to read and i wish i could be of support but i take time to catch up. ;;
On November 04 2010 10:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Not if you think it will make you a mafia target. Unless you can give us some information by roleclaiming that will lead us to a mafia lynch, keep it to yourself
well lets hope the person i vote for is lynched AND is a mafia and i can activate my superpowers
huh
On November 06 2010 09:31 Kenpachi wrote: GOD DAMN IT HOW DID COAG GET LYNCHED ... I might die tonight.. Then i say DrH and DC are Mafia -_-
weird cause you accused coagulation. and now you're accusing me but the night post proves I'm protown and accusing another player that has no business being accused since we're gonna lynch him anyway
why am I mafia if you die? you've barely posted in this game you have nothing to base that on. not to mention I voted for the mafia target. If I was so concerned about your "superpowers" why would I vote for one of my mafia buddies?
On November 06 2010 09:31 Kenpachi wrote: GOD DAMN IT HOW DID COAG GET LYNCHED ... I might die tonight.. Then i say DrH and DC are Mafia -_-
we might as well lynch you
you are really inactive and now you're accusing me who was basically proved to be town by lexpars death and DC whose gambit makes zero sense as a mafia
did you just not read/understand this game ??
well if i die tonight, it would probably only be me to suspect you and DC are mafia regardless of everything that happened in this game because im sorta ticked that the plan was changed :l..
But if i dont die, i dont want to vote for DC cause i want to actually help the town by voting Pandain .. Wasnt it planned that DC was going to die according to Node or was it disproved?
and it doesnt help town to lynch a mafia? if you voted for coagulation wouldn't your awesome superpowers activiate now? thats dumb
there is no way im mafia. look at lexpars death. I'm literally confirmed to everyone as a townie now.
almost 99% of kthez's posts have been in the last day phase (when a mafia just happened to have been caught) and were mostly concerned with changing the lynch from coagulation to pandain
he could just as easily say this shit if we lynched pandain. if he can't use his bombs anymore than he has no use, it's more important that we catch him in a possible lie
On November 06 2010 10:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote: almost 99% of kthez's posts have been in the last day phase (when a mafia just happened to have been caught) and were mostly concerned with changing the lynch from coagulation to pandain
we should lynch him tomorrow
why does that make him suspicious again? there were several people advocating for changing the lynch to pandain iirc
if there are specific posts which look scummy in that duration, mind highlighting them for me?
we went from having a sure red target to a big split bandwagon. you don't think mafia were involved in that?
the fact that literally all of kthez's impactful posts have been in that regard makes him suspicious to me.
On November 06 2010 09:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: no conclusions can be drawn from that vote
it could be a bus it could be to make pandain look more suspicious it could be to make everyone switch off coag
it could be anything
The vote was made RIGHT before the original vote cutoff time. Since the votes at that period were like 13-13 even, the mafia tried to kill coag. Since they did this so late, and not PREEMPTIVELY (like 30 mins before), it is reasonable to conclude that the intention was not to frame pandain.
I don't think it is a "bus", because it does not decriminalize any other mafia.
Since the vote was made extremely late, I dont think it was to make everyone switch of coag. I think it was to make sure coag died, rather than pandain.
There would be no reason for an unknown mafia to knock out coag over pandain, except if pandain was a valuable asset to the mafia cause.
or to cause confusion that vote just makes people want to vote for pandain more anyway
On November 06 2010 10:08 LunarDestiny wrote: I'll hold off on pandain for now. The secret mafia vote does seem questionable. But we shouldn't discuss who we should vote at night.
We need to devise a plan to stop mafia from killing our strong roles. We can decide who to lynch after we get more result on night action. Also, DrH said Pandain is blue... ok. If he is telling the truth, his ability to tell alignment of one person is useful. So who should he target?
On November 06 2010 10:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote: because i think you faked your role and your posts still seem scummy to me
let me read through your posts first geez
i thought either you or pandain were mafia on day 2 when my poke didn't come through
I'm more inclined to believe that you were mafia based on the posting but when you claimed DT and got coagulation killed I rejected the notion until I realized it is an easy bus and you did absolutely nothing to confirm your role and there are things about your roleclaim that make me think its more likely a lie than the truth
like the rng check and the 1/4th chance versus 10%, it's inconsistent with the other known ADD role in the game
not to mention it's awfully convenient that the results returned were the roles and alignments of a player any mafia would know whether or not he had DT powers, you had no information that every mafia didn't already have just information town didn't necessarily have
On November 06 2010 10:21 DCLXVI wrote: And WTF doc? Why is our "confirmed" DT your #1 suspect??? also remind me why lexpars death shows anything about you?
On November 06 2010 10:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: im 100% town, the night post proved it
the only way I would believe infinitestory is 100% town is if coagulation was the blue retard. the fact that coag was red says nothing.
I missed that night post. Where was it?
bottom of page 155
it says that Lexpar's role is Careful Doctor, which will die if he protects a red Lexpar stated that if he died night 1, then DrH is red... which means Lexpar probably protected DrH and survived
correct
lexpar protected me on the first night, didn't die as a result, and then he said I'm confirmed town but everyone was distrustful of him (to be expected)
his role is now confirmed and combined with the million other things i've done to show myself as pro town you would have to be pants on head retarded to doubt me at this point
On November 06 2010 10:24 DCLXVI wrote: Wow so DocH says: "I.S. is my #1 suspect" --why? "Wait, let me read through his posts to find out" He faked his role by offering up another mafia teammate, sure. The way someone becomes #1 suspect is to find mafia. What is this shit?
simple bus and I thought his posting was scummy earlier. he was my #1 scumsuspect until he outed coagulation, that unconfirmable and inconsistent roleclaim doesn't change shit
On November 06 2010 10:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote: because i think you faked your role and your posts still seem scummy to me
let me read through your posts first geez
i thought either you or pandain were mafia on day 2 when my poke didn't come through
I'm more inclined to believe that you were mafia based on the posting but when you claimed DT and got coagulation killed I rejected the notion until I realized it is an easy bus and you did absolutely nothing to confirm your role and there are things about your roleclaim that make me think its more likely a lie than the truth
like the rng check and the 1/4th chance versus 10%, it's inconsistent with the other known ADD role in the game
not to mention it's awfully convenient that the results returned were the roles and alignments of a player any mafia would know whether or not he had DT powers, you had no information that every mafia didn't already have just information town didn't necessarily have
the only reason it was 1/4 is because it randomly selects a member from the game at the time (beginning of night 2), there were 7 reds and 21 blues hence, probability of finding a red is 7/28 = 1/4
you said it had a 1/4th chance of failure if i am remembering correctly
do you not remember the way the role you faked works?
"I get a RNG'd target to check every night. My chances of finding a red every night so far have been about 1 in 4, so I figured if I caught a scum I would consider claiming the very next day. Night 1 I got annul (and ended up playing on his tire swing all night >____> while getting 0 information). Night 2 I got Coagulation. Excellllent~ Coagulation is a mafia, and his role is Mafia Retard (I giggled when I read it too). I have no idea what the role does, since DT checks don't give the full role PM."
it seems oddly inconsistent with the mechanics of ADD Medic which had some sort of nonexistent failure mechanics
the point is no one should say you are "confirmed town" right now.
On November 06 2010 10:28 LunarDestiny wrote: So infinitestory fake claim to kill coag? Damn, that is some high level mafia play...
Shouldn't we keep it real, and play with logic.
no, buses happen all the time
i've done them as mafia before. it isn't high level, mafia talk about starting on the first day. what circumstances should they bus, who should they bus if they have to, etc.
in micro mafia i almost bus'd drag_ on the first day just so people would think I'm town
I think it is what it says, if he protects a mafia he dies. Why would he say the things he said if that wasn't the case? His role doesn't specify anything about flipping, you're going on a weird tangent.
I guess Pandain is still the best choice. I'm not sure if I'd rather see hyperbola or nemesis lynched though.
On November 06 2010 10:24 DCLXVI wrote: Wow so DocH says: "I.S. is my #1 suspect" --why? "Wait, let me read through his posts to find out" He faked his role by offering up another mafia teammate, sure. The way someone becomes #1 suspect is to find mafia. What is this shit?
I thought about this while I went to sleep last night.
It's possible that IS is red, and he totally made up his role. There's nothing to prove otherwise, other than the fact that he gave us a mafia to lynch.
However, Coag didn't have a very useful role. Not totally useless, but not very useful either. So think about the following investigations.
He could just say that he randomly DTed X, Y, Z (on separate days ofc) and they are all townies (while in fact, they being mafia), and if we started believing him now, we'll be in deep trouble if he manages to protect his allies.
That being said though, it's kind-of a long shot, and I wouldn't go as far as to vote for him to be lynched. Not even close.
The main down-sides of his plan? It takes a bit long, and he can't cover the person who's being targeted by the town, because it would seem obvious. So, given that there are 6 mafia left, assuming that he's one of them, he would still need at least 5 nights to cover all of them. If we use double-lynch again, that means we'll have killed 6 to 7 people.
Again, maybe mafia did this because people were starting to zone in on the members and they needed a way out, the possibilities are endless, but let's just take it with a grain of salt and see what happens next before we go say that he's "the #1 suspect", and risk causing a bandwagon on him.
I mean, what if he lucks out and gets another red tonight? Do we still lynch him?
Until I remembered how he fished for his role way way early in the game. IS isn't mafia.
On November 12 2010 11:39 Coagulation wrote: also i will mention doch did a damn fine job putting up with the barrage of mafia attacks on him and holding his cool and keeping town together.
if anyone gets any kind of pressure under fire award this game DOCH wins hands down.
Yea I felt bad for Dr.H. While he wasn't always on the right track the Town was so bad he never had a chance to cut through all the bullshit. By the time Infinitestory came around it was too late. I guess now Dr.H knows how it feels to appear so pro-town and have to deal with bad townies and Scum undermining you and how hard it is to find the difference.
Do you think I did alright for my first time as town?
I was honestly just really scared to go after you. Your name has a lot of clout and with no one to really back me up I felt too nervous to go with my gut which from day 2 told me you were scum.
I started feeling unsure about Pandain later. The funny thing is if I stuck with my original intentions and feelings I would have lynched Divinek on the first day and pushed for you and Pandain to be lynched on the second day.
The worst mistake I feel I made was over posting. I'm used to spamming a bit as mafia and only later did I realize I shouldn't respond to everything people post. Secondly I wasn't confident and I played a little bit too reactionary.
On November 13 2010 02:05 deconduo wrote: Btw, Dr. H what made you suspect me? I thought I was doing pretty well to be not scummy
shitty defense of pandain at a point when the bandwagon was gonna swing onto aeres (meaning you didn't have to defend pandain really if you were a town thinking he was town)
soft analysis that didn't really say much
i don't remember exactly but it was your first post defending pandain and kinda softly prodding me
On November 13 2010 01:59 aidnai wrote: I watched most of this game. I'm new to online mafia games, though mafia used to be a favorite party game when I was in highschool. My two cents on this game:
Dr. H, you're better mafia than you are town (apparently you're much more experienced as scum?). Actually, you are quite awesome as mafia, but as pointed out early (and you yourself admitted), your scumhunting was lackluster (i think the spaminess hurt). Not to be too hard on you though, since your leadership was actually great (just look at the town after you died lol).
Town, Ace, L, and Pandain were all lynches you should have made happen. If you had nailed these guys earlier, the thread would have been a LOT less spammy and confusion-inducing. Instead, they were allowed to defend themselves via shouting matches while town made the stupidest lynch decisions possible.
Kenpachi, your self-defense was really weak. It looked like Mafia cut you loose, just like they did with Coag. I believed Pandain was GF 100% until he called you out and you responded so poorly. You knew he was GF 100% as soon as he called you out, you should have forcefully argued this with the town. There were good reasons on your side: - No other mayor candidates flipped red, but there's no way Mafia wouldn't put forward a candidate - Coag asked a DT to check Panda (XD L) - Pandain did not follow through with campaign promises or contribute to scumhunting - Pandain picked the EASIEST POSSIBLE role to fake for a mafia--alignment checker - etc.
Mafia, you spread chaos and terror like raspberry jam on toast. I don't think we saw the most nuanced, subtle play from your side, but it got the job done so who can argue? Actually, I think this game style is probably effective in a game this size, with no role lists. If you make mistakes (and you are sure to with so many people), just spam spam spam until nobody remembers. It shouldn't work in a small game though, so don't try this at home.
Hosts, great job, super fun set-up. The tracker/watcher thing did not throw me at all (prolly since I don't play online games?).
On November 11 2010 06:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Regarding win condition: Mafia need to kill all non-mafia non-third party members to win. LSB is wrong in this. I decided on this ruling because a number of things could still jeopardize mafia victory even if they gain a numerical advantage in town, therefore they wouldn't be assured victory.
Doesn't this mean 100% you can't win with mafia? That scum is most definitely going to betray you? correct me if I'm wrong here. Also, Lunar, I might be wrong, but I think you could have claimed Vigi and called out Ace, thus saving the town from one of their god-awful lynches.
Very fun game to watch, I'll be playing next time for sure.
Yeah, I'm not used to playing town so I didn't realize until later I shouldn't post so much. I look forward to my next game as town.