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On October 06 2010 10:16 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:11 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. It's not fair. If I want to meta him, and provide both town and mafia games, I have to say who he is. That is NOT FAIR to me making a case on him. They wish to remain unknown, I am honoring their request. You may meta all you want with the game they played as Protactinium. I'm sure you can work with that, but it's really not up for discussion.
What a strange rule. Oh well, I guess we must live with injustice.
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On October 06 2010 10:18 CynanMachae wrote:
##Vote Padain
I'd like to hear why. I disagree with his insistence on lynching Infund but I see no reason to believe he is mafia. Are you merely trying to distance yourself from the accusation that the two of you are in some way connected?
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On October 06 2010 10:19 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:16 BrownBear wrote:On October 06 2010 10:11 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. It's not fair. If I want to meta him, and provide both town and mafia games, I have to say who he is. That is NOT FAIR to me making a case on him. They wish to remain unknown, I am honoring their request. You may meta all you want with the game they played as Protactinium. I'm sure you can work with that, but it's really not up for discussion. What a strange rule. Oh well, I guess we must live with injustice.
I'm leaving it up to Protactinium. If he wants to reveal himself I have no problem with that. If he wants to remain secret, I have no problem with that either.
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Wow, am I really leading in votes so far? Lynching me would really be a bad idea.
I agree with all of you that Padain's posting is a bit weird on defending me, since he can't know that I'm not mafia from my 2 posts and saying I'm playing the same as usual is really not much cause I don't think I've even changed my playstyle much in games were I was mafia, and these two posts really don't say anything right now.
So, since Padain can't know I'm not mafia (no detective play yet), the only way that he can be sure that I'm town is if he's mafia himself. He's probably hoping I do get lynched and can play the "told you so" card then. Not that I think it's a wise decision for a mafia but else I don't see why he would be defending me. The only reason I would see is if he believed we should lynch people that are more inactive, but he didn't seem to suggest that.
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Also, I'm now looking for 2 more people who would potentially be interested in subbing in. 4 modkills on day 1 is no fun for anyone. Fortuntely, we have 2 people who are already on the replacement list, but lining up 2 more (just in case, there's no guarantee there will be any modkills at this point lol) definitely can't hurt.
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On October 06 2010 10:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:I'd like to hear why. I disagree with his insistence on lynching Infund but I see no reason to believe he is mafia. Are you merely trying to distance yourself from the accusation that the two of you are in some way connected?
Yea, my explanation is in my post just above.
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I won't reveal myself, since that would take effort. Somebody else can graciously do it and save me the trouble if he/she would like.
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Also, the modkill thing is removed. That was too harsh, my bad >>
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On October 06 2010 10:21 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:19 Incognito wrote:On October 06 2010 10:16 BrownBear wrote:On October 06 2010 10:11 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. It's not fair. If I want to meta him, and provide both town and mafia games, I have to say who he is. That is NOT FAIR to me making a case on him. They wish to remain unknown, I am honoring their request. You may meta all you want with the game they played as Protactinium. I'm sure you can work with that, but it's really not up for discussion. What a strange rule. Oh well, I guess we must live with injustice. I'm leaving it up to Protactinium. If he wants to reveal himself I have no problem with that. If he wants to remain secret, I have no problem with that either.
In my view it is the smurf's burden to enforce the secrecy of his own identity if he so wishes. I don't think mod intervention in protecting someone's identity is fair.
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On October 06 2010 10:22 CynanMachae wrote:
Wow, am I really leading in votes so far? Lynching me would really be a bad idea.
I agree with all of you that Padain's posting is a bit weird on defending me, since he can't know that I'm not mafia from my 2 posts and saying I'm playing the same as usual is really not much cause I don't think I've even changed my playstyle much in games were I was mafia, and these two posts really don't say anything right now.
So, since Padain can't know I'm not mafia (no detective play yet), the only way that he can be sure that I'm town is if he's mafia himself. He's probably hoping I do get lynched and can play the "told you so" card then. Not that I think it's a wise decision for a mafia but else I don't see why he would be defending me. The only reason I would see is if he believed we should lynch people that are more inactive, but he didn't seem to suggest that.
Of Course! I forgot the first sentence in the Mafia Handbook
Rule 1: When people only have two votes on them, start defending them so they get lynched. If you defend it enough, then you can get him lynched!
I'm not saying your not under suscipcion(I specifically said I was still keeping an eye on you), instead I said you should not be lynched. Originally I had misread the intentions of the votes on you as being serious votes, so I got a bit worried since I do not believe there is enough evidence that you are mafia, while I have suscipions of other players(namely Infund).
I'm not sure your town, I'm saying I'm unsure.
Also, I'm Pandain, not Padain. =D
@Dr. H:
I've reread Infund's post, and noticed he did give his opinion that dt should not roleclaim but be creative. So I'm a bit more unsure, but don't think Crysis is mafia either. Still, I'm going to leave what I said there for people to consider. Hmmm..... I'll wait for Proctat's post before deciding more.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 06 2010 10:25 Protactinium wrote:
I won't reveal myself, since that would take effort. Somebody else can graciously do it and save me the trouble if he/she would like. Nvm, I'll just spill the beans. I'm Protact. Yes, I like to debate with myself.
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The reason I haven't been posting is because I haven't been home since last night (>24h ago) when I made that first post.
Thanks for getting my back while I was gone Dr H.
Pandain, anybody can link to a website - but I'm the one who did. I don't think I've seen that guide before on TL at all, and frankly guides like that are something we could use more of on TL so that people can learn to play in non-PM games. You said it isn't superb though. So what would you add?
Also Misder, I'm still waiting to see your list of suspects that you talked about before.
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On October 06 2010 10:31 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:21 BrownBear wrote:On October 06 2010 10:19 Incognito wrote:On October 06 2010 10:16 BrownBear wrote:On October 06 2010 10:11 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. It's not fair. If I want to meta him, and provide both town and mafia games, I have to say who he is. That is NOT FAIR to me making a case on him. They wish to remain unknown, I am honoring their request. You may meta all you want with the game they played as Protactinium. I'm sure you can work with that, but it's really not up for discussion. What a strange rule. Oh well, I guess we must live with injustice. I'm leaving it up to Protactinium. If he wants to reveal himself I have no problem with that. If he wants to remain secret, I have no problem with that either. In my view it is the smurf's burden to enforce the secrecy of his own identity if he so wishes. I don't think mod intervention in protecting someone's identity is fair.
Fair enough, I was simply trying to honor his wishes. He's posted his take on it, so that's now my official platform.
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On October 06 2010 10:37 Infundibulum wrote:
The reason I haven't been posting is because I haven't been home since last night (>24h ago) when I made that first post.
Thanks for getting my back while I was gone Dr H.
Pandain, anybody can link to a website - but I'm the one who did. I don't think I've seen that guide before on TL at all, and frankly guides like that are something we could use more of on TL so that people can learn to play in non-PM games. You said it isn't superb though. So what would you add?
Also Misder, I'm still waiting to see your list of suspects that you talked about before.
Just to make me happy, mind posting some more content? For example, what to do in this situation, with like 2 modkills going to happen.
Honestly, like Dr.H said, we don't really have any evidence. My main reason for voting you was because you seemed the most likely, but really you in itself were only possibly 50% mafia. But just post some more and I'll probably change my vote. I'm going to review everyone thus far that's posted, and decide. Hopefully I'll make a somewhat confident decision.
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On October 06 2010 10:31 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:21 BrownBear wrote:On October 06 2010 10:19 Incognito wrote:On October 06 2010 10:16 BrownBear wrote:On October 06 2010 10:11 Bill Murray wrote:
OK. It's not fair. If I want to meta him, and provide both town and mafia games, I have to say who he is. That is NOT FAIR to me making a case on him. They wish to remain unknown, I am honoring their request. You may meta all you want with the game they played as Protactinium. I'm sure you can work with that, but it's really not up for discussion. What a strange rule. Oh well, I guess we must live with injustice. I'm leaving it up to Protactinium. If he wants to reveal himself I have no problem with that. If he wants to remain secret, I have no problem with that either. In my view it is the smurf's burden to enforce the secrecy of his own identity if he so wishes. I don't think mod intervention in protecting someone's identity is fair.
Agreed. Mod should neither encourage nor discourage one to reveal the smurf's identity barring any smurfing rule.
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so protactinium, who are you? You're tied for the lead to be killed.
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On October 06 2010 09:34 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 09:25 Protactinium wrote:On October 06 2010 09:19 Bill Murray wrote:On October 06 2010 05:40 meeple wrote:On October 06 2010 05:27 Pandain wrote:
I don't count Cynan as inactive and Nobody should vote for him because his actions thus far are in accordance with his previous play. That's not to say I'm not watching him(I am) but he's not that suspicious to me.
Whoa whoa... weird defense of cynan... the votes against him were just to bump him back into posting... which he did, so those should eventually fade away to other, more suitable targets. However, he's definitely not in enough danger for another townie to worry about him getting the chop. This makes a lot more sense if you're an anxious red protecting your buddy... I did pick up on that, but Pandain could just as easily be a Detective trying to defend someone, or a townie with a loud mouth. Why would a Detective defend on Day 1, especially since they can't start investigating till Night 2? Townie with loud mouth. Thoughts in a bit, busy now. Detectives typically defend people they find to be town. Combine that with his beating himself up over changing his vote to OpZ, your fishing for why I feel he's DT (when you know my actions are money as fuck), your DT fishing on your own earlier in the thread, and I present to you Bill Murray's first mafia catch of the game: Protactinium. Points: 1) as seen from the TL Mafia game I hosted, he is fitting in with his mafia meta. He makes huge "pro-town" posts as mafia. As town he is way more argumentative. I can provide the difference, but I would have to indicate who he is. 2) he is a fucking smurf who has another name on this site 3) He was fishing for the DT and "discussing" who the DT was, how to find him, and what he should do 4) He was curious as to how I knew Pandain was the DT when he knows I am a good player vote to lynch protactinium
Point by point, ignoring some points.
1) Different meta. Too bad, so sad, go learn to be correct.
2) Of course I would make pro-town posts. Why don't you?
3) I'm "discussing" who the Detective is. Just like I'm "discussing" with the thread on how wrong you are. I'm also "discussing" how to find a Detective. Oh yes, yes I am. Learn to read, since the only thing you have correct about this statement is that I'm trying to tell Detective(s) what to do.
4) Pandain is the DT? You know this already? You must be such a good player! Oh wait...
5) Again, you're a good player?
Since you're such a good player, you should concern yourself with less trivial matters than clogging up the thread, since that's what you're doing right now.
Moving on.
On October 06 2010 10:22 CynanMachae wrote:
Wow, am I really leading in votes so far? Lynching me would really be a bad idea.
I agree with all of you that Padain's posting is a bit weird on defending me, since he can't know that I'm not mafia from my 2 posts and saying I'm playing the same as usual is really not much cause I don't think I've even changed my playstyle much in games were I was mafia, and these two posts really don't say anything right now.
So, since Padain can't know I'm not mafia (no detective play yet), the only way that he can be sure that I'm town is if he's mafia himself. He's probably hoping I do get lynched and can play the "told you so" card then. Not that I think it's a wise decision for a mafia but else I don't see why he would be defending me. The only reason I would see is if he believed we should lynch people that are more inactive, but he didn't seem to suggest that.
Blue role, soft claim? Village Idiot, reverse psychology? Still though, Pandain's [un?]intentional tie-in is still something that can be remembered in the future.
On October 06 2010 10:01 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 09:34 Bill Murray wrote:
4) He was curious as to how I knew Pandain was the DT when he knows I am a good player
Also, wtf? I never told you if I am or am not DT. and if I was, it would be wise not to reveal it. But I'm willing to soak up hits, let the mafia hit me 
Another one?
Regardless, I'm not really worried with who is or isn't Mafia on Day 1. You guys can be, but don't ask me for my opinions. Seriously, kill the inactives at this point, and read over Day 1 again after everything's died down.
I still see there's some discussion about what DTs should do when they find reds. As you know, my stance is that DTs should shout out as soon as they find a Mafia member. However, it seems that after that some people say things like "DTs should be creative" or "DTs should try to build a case first." However, let's look at this scenario:
I am the Detective. During Night 2, I check player X on a whim, and it turns out X is Mafia. However, X has played a clean game up to this point and I have nothing on him, absolutely nothing. I don't have a circle I can trust since I'm not able to PM anybody, so I only have this information to myself. During Day 3, I focus hard (but not in thread, since I have nothing to build a case off of) on X. I die Night 3, and am unable to get my information out. The knowledge that X is Mafia dies with me, and I have not been able to spread it to anybody else.
1.While originally I was in support of DT claiming if he found red, I now believe we should not. With 5 mafia, DT's will be a very useful addition to regular scum hunting. In addition, if he does not claim but merely post up an analysis of that person and convince everyone he's mafia, then mafia don't even know that he is definitely DT. If said DT does get a mafia lynched, medics can/perhaps should protect him just in case. If you know someone's mafia while you haven't managed to convince people without saying "I'm DT and I checked him", then you should, as it will still mean we will be only one mafia away from lowering mafia (regular) kp to 1. So that's my input there.
This is from Pandain. He pointed out that "Detectives are powerful since there are five Mafia, and they are useful for scum hunting? Of course they are. The faster a Detective outs a Mafia, the faster KP goes down to 1. If the Detective dies, then he's served a purpose--his job is to check Mafia. Before he goes, he can give out his innocent list, rat out the Mafia, die, and then his job is served. He forces the Mafia to use poison/KP as well to take him down.
So if we were to kill the Detective(s) during a night, even if he/she/they found a Mafia, if they didn't start bringing it up pretty heavily in the thread then the Town has little to go off of. The Detective at that point simply becomes a person with a hunch, since his information died with him.
Will vote shortly after flipping coins to decide on an inactive. Joking about the coins, of course. Most likely it'll be somebody that plays a lot but hasn't decided to talk. I'm thinking XeliN at this point, since I've watched enough games of his.
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Editing above: no point to point after all, as I got distracted. My first point should say "One game Meta!" instead.
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... lots of sudden votes for protactinium... I mean... smurfing isn't that annoying is it?
What's the deal with infinitestory's no-post vote... get in here man!
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On October 06 2010 10:41 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 10:37 Infundibulum wrote:
The reason I haven't been posting is because I haven't been home since last night (>24h ago) when I made that first post.
Thanks for getting my back while I was gone Dr H.
Pandain, anybody can link to a website - but I'm the one who did. I don't think I've seen that guide before on TL at all, and frankly guides like that are something we could use more of on TL so that people can learn to play in non-PM games. You said it isn't superb though. So what would you add?
Also Misder, I'm still waiting to see your list of suspects that you talked about before.
Just to make me happy, mind posting some more content? For example, what to do in this situation, with like 2 modkills going to happen. Honestly, like Dr.H said, we don't really have any evidence. My main reason for voting you was because you seemed the most likely, but really you in itself were only possibly 50% mafia. But just post some more and I'll probably change my vote. I'm going to review everyone thus far that's posted, and decide. Hopefully I'll make a somewhat confident decision.
Well, it looks like it's too late to pressure them into posting by voting. So we let the modkills die, and good riddance to them.
Ideally we need to find a person or two to put votes on, so that people don't have their votes just stuck on inactives, because that invariably ends up getting a townie lynched. The problem is that there hasn't been anybody polarizing enough; as far as I can tell the top 3 names have been me, Crisis, and Cynan? I can tell you my thoughts:
Crisis is new so we can expect him to make mistakes no matter what side he's playing on. For this reason alone I'd rather not lynch him Day 1, because either way it makes him appear more red than he may actually be.
Cynan is probably town but he wants to lynch inactives which makes me go  He also says "Lynching me would really be a bad idea." This might be a soft blue claim?
At this point I don't think we should expect to find mafia among inactives - TL mafia games always always start with discussions about lynching inactives, and by now you might think the mafia are starting to catch on. The problem is you have inactive townies that are active enough to avoid modkill, but still don't contribute anything. Part of me wants to lynch these people so that reds can't hide among them, but the other part knows that it's better to just lynch a red in the first place.
Also i want to point out that ghrur started two posts with the exact same phrase "Speaking of lynching." Not sure if it means anything but i think it's funny.
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On October 06 2010 10:54 SiNiquity wrote:
so protactinium, who are you? You're tied for the lead to be killed.
I really don't know who he is... and it shouldn't matter... but if you look through his posts... it smacks of someone like flamewheel
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EPT
