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On September 20 2010 02:32 Pandain wrote:
LSB, does pyrr know hes in this game lol? He hasn't posted at all.
XD Yeah I talked to him a bit, but the game just started.
I'll yell at him to post next time I catch him.
On September 20 2010 02:53 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 02:02 LSB wrote:On September 19 2010 14:22 YellowInk wrote:
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray. Why? Bill Murray frequently plays in a way that is destructive to town productivity when he is town. Among all the histories of those I know playing, he gives me the greatest reason to hang given a blind choice. However, I do agree with Ace. Ace's question needs to be answered and Bill Murray needs to show that he'll help the town. Then we'll see how things go.
kk. Just remember, we don't have enough room for policy lynches.
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On September 20 2010 02:53 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 02:02 LSB wrote:On September 19 2010 14:22 YellowInk wrote:
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray. Why? Bill Murray frequently plays in a way that is destructive to town productivity when he is town. Among all the histories of those I know playing, he gives me the greatest reason to hang given a blind choice.
In a larger, nonteam game I'd agree with you. This game, two problems: A) policy lynches are bad because we have so little margin for error, and B) It's not fair to Ace, who is capable of being very very helpful to town if he's town. That should balance out the BM-spam a little bit.
Besides, I want to see the team dynamic ^^
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Ok as this is a super super super small style of game. Team game so technically very few players in terms of lynches we have to be extremely careful. To start with we need to generate discussion and yes I have seen some of this going on already woo we need to sit down and seriously think things through.
Lynching based off inactivity remember kills a team not just one specific member but the team itself. IF an entire team is inactive maybe we can opt for them. Opting on inactivity lynches based solely off one player in a team however seems like a bad idea, especially for the trio we have.
As for a general start past this
RVS [vote] rastaban/foolishness
Both are normally fairly active players and outside of one spam post, both are afkish. Plus no one decent to vote for.
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On September 20 2010 01:57 Pandain wrote:
Medic should protect whomever they want. That doesn't mean they should be dumb, (and they should use logic(such as incognitos) but saying "oh whoever is active and helpful should be protected" just makes it easier for the mafia to hit a non protected person.
Especially if we make a list of who they shall protect.
DTS should not only check scummy people, but try to check people with strong teams. For example, #6 and #8, with possible checks as #3 and #7 teams. In this setup it can be very good and very bad for town. If teams such as BC and Rebirth(hes good right?) are town, then confirming that will be very useful, as we have a confirmed veteran to help guide us. If they are mafia, then they can easily sidetrack us. Again, that leads to another question. If DTS do check them, they should only reveal as such if they ARE mafia. If not, then losing a DT(and possible only blue role) will do nothing.
In addition, who do we lynch today? Well, i'm starting to think we should lynch one of South, Divinek, or Bumatlarge. Lynching one will confirm the two others, helping us in future scum hunting and decision. If mafia try to take these confirmed out, its alright, because they aren't exactly "vets" and it'll take two turns for mafia to finish them off. However, I sort of doubt they'll go for them as they'll probably go for the vets themselves.
After I receive a PM from Korynne answering my questions I'll be more concrete in what I think we should do.
Main points:
1. Medic should use their own logic, not a confirmed person to protect. This will help with a successful protection.
2. DTS should check vets in addition to if you have a burning suspicion of someone.
3.After receiving a reply from Korynne I'll be more sure of who to lynch.
what do you mean lynching one of us will confirm us lol? if you kill one person of a team im pretty sure alignment doesnt flip, if that's even what you're getting at because you don't make it clear, that'd be pretty ridiculous. I've got my eye on you as always pandain!
I can't find it in the rules, but that's how it's been in the past...
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I'm pretty sure that we should be bypassing any and all plans to create some sort of list for the medics, for many reasons.
1) Straight up, (I'm sure Ace would appreciate this one) our goal is to find mafia and kill them, not debate or vote upon who's the most valuable team to the town. As stated before, this is a small game and we don't exactly have a boatload of days to find scum. Thus we should be using our time strictly to analyze and figure out mafia, not anything else.
2) There's a 50% chance there's no medic (assuming the setup was randomly chosen of course). That's not a high enough percentage for me to care about what a medic might be doing at night.
3) I've never seen a game where there was a medic/DT list created and the actual medic/DT followed it. This is forum mafia and let's not kid ourselves here, everyone thinks they're the best. I don't find it reasonable at all that the medic actually listen to what the town voted for. Add in the fact that each team has 2/3 players on it, which is going to lead to more disagreements about who to protect.
4) Korynne said medic can save themselves. There's hardly any reason the medic shouldn't be saving themselves night 1.
***
Now I haven't gotten a response back yet, but if Korynne allows it we should vote to no lynch. Either way, we have 2 shots at lynching a mafia otherwise we lose (I'm assuming that there's no medic saves). If we no lynch, this gives a DT two potential nights to check someone and find a mafia. If we lynch now (and don't hit a mafia), tomorrow there will be 6 teams alive. If we mislynch again the mafia just have to kill someone at night and it's game over. In that scenario DT had only one night's of information to help the town.
Yes I realize that there's only a 50% chance there's a DT. But either way we have 2 lynches to get a mafia, and if we no lynch that gives us more time to talk and analyze people. More time is better for the town, the mafia want things to go by as fast as possible.
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Main Points:
1) Forget about making a medic list, don't vote for who the medic should protect. Focus on analyzing and finding mafia.
2) Vote for No Lynch if Korynne allows it.
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On September 20 2010 05:53 Foolishness wrote:
2) Vote for No Lynch if Korynne allows it.
The voice under the metal apparatus sounded again.
Uh... what part of a timer is not clear enough to you. What do you think is going to happen to all of you if no one is sacrificed when the timer is up?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Lets see, two accusations going right now
Ace/BM: This isn't a real accusation. More like Bill Murray Foe on Sight
Rastaban/Foolishness: Based on the Premise that they are more inactive than usual. Foolishness pops out and disproves that.
Neither one I like
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The RVS is just to get conversation started, and to get rasta/foolishness talking, if I understand BC correctly. I highly doubt that will end up turning into a lynch, because that would be just plain silly.
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On September 20 2010 07:13 BrownBear wrote:
The RVS is just to get conversation started, and to get rasta/foolishness talking, if I understand BC correctly. I highly doubt that will end up turning into a lynch, because that would be just plain silly.
If it does I will be a very sad panda. Its RVS, not based on analysis
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I think Foolishness pointed out all the reason's why Incognito's plan is bad: especially true are that no one ever seems to follow them and that medics should protect themselves until they get a really good read on someone else.
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I don't have any suspicions at this point. I'll probably want to kill Bill Murray when he gets active but he is tied to Ace so perhaps he will be moderated.
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On September 20 2010 01:03 LSB wrote:
The main problem with Incognito's plan is that the existence of a DT and a Medic is not guaranteed.
I really like the DT/Medic Idea, I'm just wondering, do you have any other games where you tried out this plan?
Also, in reality, if we mess up, we might only have one night. Two days of mislynch would make us lose. If the medic is able to protect one person, that buys us another day. Shouldn't the list be hidden so the medic has a better chance of protecting someone?
You probably didn't read the whole way through my post. Anyway, basically mafia must always act as if there are DTs/Medics unless they want to screw themselves over. In this case, the threat holds weight even if the execution is impossible to carry out because the mafia can't know whether or not the threat is real. Town, on the other hand, shouldn't really care about if its possible or not. That's something the mafia has to worry about. I don't have any other games where this has been tried. But why is that relevant? In reference to your last question, I'll quote Foolishness here:
On September 20 2010 05:53 Foolishness wrote:
3) I've never seen a game where there was a medic/DT list created and the actual medic/DT followed it. This is forum mafia and let's not kid ourselves here, everyone thinks they're the best. I don't find it reasonable at all that the medic actually listen to what the town voted for. Add in the fact that each team has 2/3 players on it, which is going to lead to more disagreements about who to protect.
First of all, this is not true. For example, madnessman (DT) checked Sidesprang day 1, who was on the DT list in Mafia XX. Anyway, the publicity of a medic list is hard for the mafia to ignore, regardless of whether or not medic chooses to follow it. And that's the point. The point of the list is not to result in 100% anythings, and is certainly not to confirm people. The point is merely psychological. Mafia must be preoccupied worrying about things even if town doesn't follow through on it. This has nothing to do with town compliance. Unlike some other recent terribly formed schemes, this one doesn't really rely on town agreeing with it.
As for the rest of the post...when did Korynne say medics can protect themselves? I don't remember that being stated anywhere.
How do you intend to analyze the mafia without PMs and without people talking about something? Notice how people read my post and decide to respond to only a certain portion of it...
On September 20 2010 01:54 BrownBear wrote:
Minigames are intended to be short, quick, and brutal. We really have to rely on analysis in order to drop at least 1 mafia member early (preferably today), because like LSB said, we miss 2 in a row and we're done.
That said, if we drop a scum, that gives us a ton more breathing room (1v6 instead of 2v6 gives us an extra day or two). Of course, the danger here is, what do we have to analyze?
Besides Incog's post, that is. Which does make some assumptions that aren't necessarily true.
You can't sit and wait for meaningful posts to come along so you can analyze. You have to actively work to make meaningful posts come out. Also, remember that what someone doesn't sometimes says more than what they do say. In other words, this post is says nothing. Now, what does that tell you?
On September 20 2010 03:57 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 02:53 YellowInk wrote:On September 20 2010 02:02 LSB wrote:On September 19 2010 14:22 YellowInk wrote:
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray. Why? Bill Murray frequently plays in a way that is destructive to town productivity when he is town. Among all the histories of those I know playing, he gives me the greatest reason to hang given a blind choice. In a larger, nonteam game I'd agree with you. This game, two problems: A) policy lynches are bad because we have so little margin for error, and B) It's not fair to Ace, who is capable of being very very helpful to town if he's town. That should balance out the BM-spam a little bit. Besides, I want to see the team dynamic ^^
A deep hard analysis (cursory glance) of Ace's current posts shows that he doesn't really care about the game. Let's not play this game waiting for something to happen. Ace's capability says nothing about whether or not we should lynch him. If you're useless, you're useless, regardless of your usual skill level. What we care about is current play, not potential play. If your play is sucks, prepare to be lynched. That is all.
At least a couple people seem to have caught my logical inconsistency. I'm sitting here wondering why they haven't directly said anything meaningful about it.
Lastly,
On September 20 2010 02:53 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 02:02 LSB wrote:On September 19 2010 14:22 YellowInk wrote:
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray. Why? Bill Murray frequently plays in a way that is destructive to town productivity when he is town. Among all the histories of those I know playing, he gives me the greatest reason to hang given a blind choice. However, I do agree with Ace. Ace's question needs to be answered and Bill Murray needs to show that he'll help the town. Then we'll see how things go.
This post needs an explanation. Agreeing with a question isn't really agreeing with anything, and Ace's question is trolling. The question does not seek a real response and doesn't lead anywhere. Unless, of course, you're trying to say that Ace is being helpful.
***
Main points:
1. People are misinterpreting my posts/selectively reading.
2. Content generation schemes. People need to be trying to give away their alignment. I've seen some good things since yesterday, but of course we still have some shadiness. Don't sit there and wait for content to spontaneously materialize.
3. Correction of some logically bizarre statements.
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On September 20 2010 08:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I don't have any suspicions at this point. I'll probably want to kill Bill Murray when he gets active but he is tied to Ace so perhaps he will be moderated.
What is the point of this post?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On September 20 2010 08:52 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 05:53 Foolishness wrote:
3) I've never seen a game where there was a medic/DT list created and the actual medic/DT followed it. This is forum mafia and let's not kid ourselves here, everyone thinks they're the best. I don't find it reasonable at all that the medic actually listen to what the town voted for. Add in the fact that each team has 2/3 players on it, which is going to lead to more disagreements about who to protect.
First of all, this is not true. For example, madnessman (DT) checked Sidesprang day 1, who was on the DT list in Mafia XX. Anyway, the publicity of a medic list is hard for the mafia to ignore, regardless of whether or not medic chooses to follow it. And that's the point. The point of the list is not to result in 100% anythings, and is certainly not to confirm people. The point is merely psychological. Mafia must be preoccupied worrying about things even if town doesn't follow through on it. This has nothing to do with town compliance. Unlike some other recent terribly formed schemes, this one doesn't really rely on town agreeing with it. As for the rest of the post...when did Korynne say medics can protect themselves? I don't remember that being stated anywhere. How do you intend to analyze the mafia without PMs and without people talking about something? Notice how people read my post and decide to respond to only a certain portion of it...
I'm still going to revert back to the point of we should be hunting mafia and not worrying about who's going to be on the medic list. If a person/team seems pro-town or more innocent than anyone else, good for them. I'm not going to waste my time thinking about who's more pro-town than who. Everyone here is well versed in mafia, we can all make decisions for ourselves about who's clearly innocent.
Not to mention once the numbers start to dwindle we can't afford to make a medic list, especially when we have days of information to analyze people by. But I can understand making a list today, or you doing this to see who votes for whom, as that can be pertinent information in the late game.
And still, medics should save themselves anyways. Everyone in this game knows that, so a list doesn't matter to the mafia since they know the medics are saving themselves anyways. I don't think the psychological impacts on the mafia are going to be there because of this fact.
I asked Korynne in a PM. It would be helpful for her to say so in the thread and/or update the rules with this fact as well, to avoid confusion in the future.
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So this is a really basic game of mafia. If the scenario is 2 mafia 6 townies, we're best of lynching from day 1, no buts or ifs. If we have only have a doctor the scenario is the same, lynch from day 1. The only difference is that we have a better chance of survival. The thing about a cop only scenario is that if mafia claims cop and the real cop counterclaims, we'll end up in a scenario where we'll have 1 mafia, 3 townies with the cop most likely dead. We'll most likely have 1 confirmed, 2 townies and 1 mafia at the end in which case we have a 1/3 shot at winning. Now what the mafia has to be careful of is if we have both a cop and a doctor in which case our chances of winning rise significantly because we'll be able to protect the confirmed cop after we realize that we were duped by the mafia fakecop. Now our two possible options are: 1) Lynch right away or 2) Wait a day for a possible guilty report and proceed to lynch regardless if cop outs himself. If we lynch right away for a scenario where we have a cop, we have a slight chance of outting our cop but it's nothing significant. In the end because we end the game on a mylo, it won't make a difference. However if we wait a day in a situation where we do not have a cop, it'll reduce our chances of winning. It doesn't really matter what we choose to do because we don't the setup of the game.
TL;DR We can choose NL or Lynch but it all depends on which of the game setups we have. Since we don't know which one it is, it doesn't matter which we pick.
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On September 20 2010 08:52 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 01:03 LSB wrote:
The main problem with Incognito's plan is that the existence of a DT and a Medic is not guaranteed.
I really like the DT/Medic Idea, I'm just wondering, do you have any other games where you tried out this plan?
Also, in reality, if we mess up, we might only have one night. Two days of mislynch would make us lose. If the medic is able to protect one person, that buys us another day. Shouldn't the list be hidden so the medic has a better chance of protecting someone? You probably didn't read the whole way through my post. Anyway, basically mafia must always act as if there are DTs/Medics unless they want to screw themselves over. In this case, the threat holds weight even if the execution is impossible to carry out because the mafia can't know whether or not the threat is real. Town, on the other hand, shouldn't really care about if its possible or not. That's something the mafia has to worry about. I don't have any other games where this has been tried. But why is that relevant? In reference to your last question, I'll quote Foolishness here:
Yes I did read your post. I understand that the mafia will have to act, that why I like your idea.
The main problem is that in order to implement the plan, we will have to use the blue roles in a way that they won't be actively hunting/blocking the mafia. The DT will be checking the bottom of the list of activity/people not contributing right? Mafia knows that and will contribute
The Medic will be protecting the top of the list of activity right? The mafia won't hit there.
I'm just concerned about what cost we have to pay for activity.
You now mention that the Medics/DT may or may not follow the plan, and it's all psychological. Mafia knows this too, and then the plan crumbles since the mafia will assume that the Medics/DT will not follow it. Rock paper sizzors
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On September 20 2010 09:27 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 08:52 Incognito wrote:On September 20 2010 05:53 Foolishness wrote:
3) I've never seen a game where there was a medic/DT list created and the actual medic/DT followed it. This is forum mafia and let's not kid ourselves here, everyone thinks they're the best. I don't find it reasonable at all that the medic actually listen to what the town voted for. Add in the fact that each team has 2/3 players on it, which is going to lead to more disagreements about who to protect.
First of all, this is not true. For example, madnessman (DT) checked Sidesprang day 1, who was on the DT list in Mafia XX. Anyway, the publicity of a medic list is hard for the mafia to ignore, regardless of whether or not medic chooses to follow it. And that's the point. The point of the list is not to result in 100% anythings, and is certainly not to confirm people. The point is merely psychological. Mafia must be preoccupied worrying about things even if town doesn't follow through on it. This has nothing to do with town compliance. Unlike some other recent terribly formed schemes, this one doesn't really rely on town agreeing with it. As for the rest of the post...when did Korynne say medics can protect themselves? I don't remember that being stated anywhere. How do you intend to analyze the mafia without PMs and without people talking about something? Notice how people read my post and decide to respond to only a certain portion of it... I'm still going to revert back to the point of we should be hunting mafia and not worrying about who's going to be on the medic list. If a person/team seems pro-town or more innocent than anyone else, good for them. I'm not going to waste my time thinking about who's more pro-town than who. Everyone here is well versed in mafia, we can all make decisions for ourselves about who's clearly innocent. Not to mention once the numbers start to dwindle we can't afford to make a medic list, especially when we have days of information to analyze people by. But I can understand making a list today, or you doing this to see who votes for whom, as that can be pertinent information in the late game. And still, medics should save themselves anyways. Everyone in this game knows that, so a list doesn't matter to the mafia since they know the medics are saving themselves anyways. I don't think the psychological impacts on the mafia are going to be there because of this fact. I asked Korynne in a PM. It would be helpful for her to say so in the thread and/or update the rules with this fact as well, to avoid confusion in the future.
Why would medics want to protect themselves? Actually, I'm starting to think of a reason why. If a medic protects themselves, they will gurantee protect a town and have a 1/6 chance of getting hit. If they dont, they have a 2/7 chance of protecting mafia, and a 1/6 chance of their protection working. As you see, the former offers the better odds. The only problem would be that we wouldn't be able to confirm a person who got hit, but that was unlikely anyway. Is it likely enough though?
As always, thoughts?
And again Incognito, I don't think we should have a guranteed "list" as to who the medic should protect. This makes it easier for mafia to succesfully shoot someone. However, protecting themselves will give them no information either, so that's another reason why we should do that.
Main Points:
Medic should protect themselves.
P.S. in addition, I'd like Korynne to confirm medics can protect themselves.
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On September 20 2010 09:35 Pandain wrote:
P.S. in addition, I'd like Korynne to confirm medics can protect themselves.
An impatient voice boomed up from below.
Stop worrying so much about everything, there's a clear task ahead of you, and it better be done by the time the timer runs out. All things will be made clear as time goes on.
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I'd like to echo Foolishness's point and say that my take on this game is that it's almost 100% scumhunting. There's a 50% shot at there being a cop and Korynne is unwilling to release any information not included in the OP. (Usually though, medics can't protect themselves) This limits any plans that we may have especially because we don't know the setup and we may not be able to investigate.
Alternatively, Korynne may be setting up a game where we can look for clues with his/her posts to perhaps find the mafia or who's innocent.
Also: EBWOP for my earlier post. I didn't realize that we couldn't NL. I overlooked Korynne's post.
Anyhow, posting is good because we actually have nothing to work with other than posts at this point in time and possibly for the entire game.
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EPT
