EPTPick Your Power Mafia 2! - Page 7
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 30 2010 19:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: Fishball was 50% role cop eh? And he's BulletBill? Maybe because he's...I dunno...Acting fishy as fuck. Not to mention when I'm in a game with Fishball I always use whatever night action I have on him Night One (seriously, it's like I have a thing for him or something, he attracts me on night one) And aren't you supposed to be analyzing shit? Oh, and one more thing Citizen. Fishball checked me, and I came up NOT holding a gun. a.k.a. CONFIRMED TOWN. Of course it needs to be mentioned that you could still be scum if both you AND fishball are scum. Seems highly highly unlikely though. So unlikely in fact, that it's really not worth discussing. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
One last thing Radfield, and please keep this in mind; Never use a commanding tone on me ever, again. Really? C'mon now. I try hard in every game I play to be respectful of other players and acknowledge that this is a game of mafia and that at times people are actively trying to stir shit up. If you are trying to pick a fight with me, I refuse to bite. If you actually felt somewhat offended by my post, I apologize for that, but I fail to see any commanding or arrogant tone in my post. I asked you some questions and stated my opinion on you. If I tried to be cheeky at the end, at least acknowledge it for what it is, and don't take it as an insult. It's like you deliberately cut off this line "In fact, we might be playing with a two strikes rule this game  I'd like to hear what other people think." in order to make me look more serious and condescending than I was.Anyways, your basic reasoning for why you chose opz is that a) you thought he was scummy and b) you have a history of doing illogical things for the fun of it. Neither of those really satisfy me, but again, I'd like to hear some other opinions. Talk about a hypocrite. (To those who still don't get it, he is the Tracker) Damn right I have my reasons to investigate him. It seems like you're trying to softball suspicion onto opz. That makes no sense. You yourself investigated him and found him to be town aligned, so why are you trying to paint him in a bad light? And if your trying to give him being the tracker as a reason why you investigated him, that makes no sense. Are you saying you suspected him of not following the draft picks? I've already done too much explaining. I'm not really sure what this means. How can you do "too much" explaining? If you're town you should be doing everything you can to prevent yourself from getting lynched. Honestly, I feel like LSB has done a decent job defending himself, and I'm getting a more and more townie vibe from him. Do you mean this discussion taking up too much of the thread and that we should be moving on to other issues? That's probably true if that's the case. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 31 2010 06:32 citi.zen wrote: Yes - if SR is mafia he also has a role, possibly Vengeful player, making him harder to lynch. LSB as traitor, on the other hand, is easier to lynch. So yeah, my suggestion is your plan but switching their names around. Yeah, either are fine by me, but my vote would still be on LSB. Medics/Martyr should be on Opz or Fishball/ or if not them, myself, citizen or Bum. There's a chance Rastaban might be killed tonight, since if he's town aligned he gives us a double lynch every cycle. If he isn't eventually killed by mafia(which would be foolish of mafia) we should lynch him. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 31 2010 09:01 Fishball wrote: If LSB isn't Mafia, nor the traitor, tracking him would do nothing. Also, seems like everyone is leaving chaoser out of the equation. What if we hit SR and he flips Vanilla Townie, and tracking LSB gave us nothing? That leaves us with chaoser obviously, but I'm just saying. Either way, this issue most likely won't be resolved tonight no matter how we switch our actions among these three, unless the person we CV is exactly the Traitor/Mafia, or the person we track is the Mafia. I'm fine with anyone of them being picked. The way I see it, Mafia most likely will not hit the CV, unless the CV is about to hit one of their own. Even if the Town uses the CV to hit one of their own, they might just let it slip by. Think about it, it would be very difficult for the Mafia to win with 1 KP against 10+ Pro-Town players left in the game. As long as the Town is able to choose the right targets, then we should be good. I think the reason chaoser is being left out of the equation for now, or at least my reason, is that if he's town, he has a really sweet role. He can confirm 4 people as innocent in one swipe if he gets lucky. But if we can't get much out of tonight, he skyrockets up the list. My thoughts on the CV, were that if rastaban is town(which the mafia will know), then his CV works exactly as a double lynch. I would say at this stage in the game a double lynch every day is extremely helpful. We kill 2 scummy players to every 1 confirmed player the mafia can kill. He's a huge town asset. That being said, we'll probably have to end up lynching him at some point if we run out of leads, so mafia killing kinda helps us anyways. Win-win for us if he's town. Jeejee, the reason you're on my scum list, is that you've said very little in this game, and had very very little content. You have yet to make a single suggestion on CV/lynching(you've voted though) or on night actions. Yet, you absolutely came alive on the zeks lynch, posting frequently. From a point of view where you are mafia this makes sense. You can push hard for his lynch because you know he's not mafia, and you know he's not town so it won't look bad. That is pretty much the only time you've actually posted a fair amount. There are a few other nitpicky things, but you really haven't posted any opinions at all for anyone to analyze or link. Nor have you actually tried to make a case against anyone, or really weighed in much on these traitor shenanigans. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 31 2010 09:38 Fishball wrote: I know what you mean, but you're missing the point, again. I'm just trying to look and explain from a Mafia stand point; It would also be Win-Win situation for the Mafia if the Town gets the wrong target, and would be reasonable for them to keep the CV alive. It's just the same logic. Basically, the outcome is determined by how well the Town uses the CV, and this is the most important part. On an unrelated note, a lot of people seem to have gone MIA for the past 48 hours, including rastaban himself. I hear what you're saying and I mainly agree. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that even if we mishit townies with the CV, we're still hitting townies we otherwise would have to lynch. Hitting scummy townies who are second in line for lynching is still a big benefit to town. It means we get to narrow down our mafia lists really quickly. I guess I just don't see any difference between the CV hit and our lynch(assuming rastaban follows the plan). Again for the record, if I die tonight my list(without traitor) is Jeejee, Darth, Fishball, Brownbear, Siniquity in that order. Chaoser needs to be dealt with if he doesn't produce results. Same with Fishball. Townies in my eyes are Pandain, Bumatlarge and Opz. Then Divinek and probably Citizen and Southrawrea. Hope this helps if I die. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Because at that point we knew he was either Sk or traitor, and mafia would know he wasn't SK. In fact, if Sub actually did draft at Role Cop, then you would know that zeks couldnt be BP or vet. Once Bums watcher analysis came out, you would know that zeks had to be traitor. I think that makes sense | ||
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Radfield
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Have Fun Now I can actually spend more time working and less time playing mafia | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Excellent moderation by Ace. I really enjoy playing in your games. I though Pandain played really well down the stretch, as well as the 4 confirmed players. Also nice to know that the two players I got into arguments with, Fishball and LSB, were both mafia. Town was in a great situation early on though. SK hits a mafia night one, Mafia shoot at the SK night one, SK gets lynched day 2. This put the mafia in a huge hole to start. The Bad Santa falling the way it did basically finished the game though. Mafia would have really needed to pull out all the stops to win this one. Good Game all around, can't wait for PYP3 Edit: My plan was really pretty bad all around, but it partially did what I intended: Keep the powerful mafia roles away from the mafia, get important town roles into the game(didn't really accomplish this). Compared to last PYP we were miles ahead though. I'm curious as to how many people actually RNGed their role. If nothing else though, it got some people talking. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On September 07 2010 03:41 LSB wrote: My story I open my PM box. You are vanilla townie. And I was like  ((((. I wanted to be mafia for a game (I was town for the other two games I played)But then, when I reviewed the roles, I saw traitor! I could be a mafia member! And I was pick #4 (at the start, before Ace revised his roles). Citi.zen, you almost caught me, I talked myself out of that one. After my pick was switched to #3, I realized that there was a 33% chance of Hesmyrr finding out that I didn’t pick PoD. What I needed to do was have a good alibi. I pretended to be inactive, so I could claim that I picked godfather, as so to deny the mafia 2 roles. Although it would fail after the first role check, it would buy some time I guess. After SR claimed, I figured that it was time to kill everyone around me and be the last man standing. (Well, later on I figured I couldn’t kill Rasta XD) I was hoping the mafia wouldn’t mess with the top and try to let me deal with it myself, but yeah, after Rasta shot me, things got sticky real fast I’m proud of the zeks kill! Mafia couldn’t kill zeks, so pushed the town to kill him! And yet your overzealous push made me strongly suspect you to be the traitor I think the biggest mistake town made this game was lynching Southrawrea over LSB. It just made so much less sense(in my mind) for SR to be making it all up.I died before I could do anything though so it hardly matters... | ||
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Radfield
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On September 07 2010 23:26 Fishball wrote: Well, sort of yes and no. When bum came out saying there were only 4 visitors , it didn't take long for Town and Mafia to figure out zeks was the SK. He was bound to be lynched. We actually hit zeks too, as we figured he would very likely be the Role Cop, and there shouldn't be any protection. The entire thing was just unfortunate. The SK needs us as much as we need the SK. When I was the SK I really felt like the mafia were the biggest threat to me winning, as I felt confident I could avoid lynches. Therefore, I tried to lynch mafia, while cutting down townie numbers at night. The mafia lynches bought me some townie cred during the day, while at night I could eliminate townies and get to endgame as fast as possible(I was Floridian). I don't think zeks hit in this case was anti-mafia. In fact it was very anti-town given that he was killing those most likely to be investigative roles. In this set-up that was the perfect play for the SK. You just got unlucky zeks that you were pick #5, a very prominent spot particularly in the plan we used. | ||
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Radfield
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Radfield
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The idea of claiming numbers beforehand was not my idea, It was Bill Murray's. I originally argued against it, then said fine whatever, then after more thought argued against it again. I certainly never said it was a good plan. I don't understand why town wouldn't want to double lynch each day. We all agree that a no-lynch is bad, so therefore a single-lynch each day is good for the town. Why does the line get drawn between a single lynch and a double lynch. Day one is of course a bit of a separate issue as I'm not sure a double lynch would really be a great idea. But once on Day 2, there is a wealth of info in the thread. At what point does lynching become detrimental to the town? 1.25 lynches per day? 1.5 lynches per day? I guess I don't see a benefit to drawing the line at 1 lynch per day. The way I see it, the better the ratio between town KP and Mafia KP, the better off town is. With a CV(working as a double lynch) town gets 2 kills for every 1 mafia kill. That means 2 scummy players are dying for every non-scummy player. In a regular game with 30 people or so, you'd be looking at 1 scummy player(lynch) for every 3 or 4 non-scummy players, a much more difficult task for town. Yes the CV hastens the end of the game, but unless your relying heavily on investigative roles or in a fairly inactive game, this isn't terrible. The fewer hits mafia get off the better, because it keeps the pro-town players alive. If town had infinity lynches and was active, that would be hugely in favor of the town, as they effectively reduce the mafia KP to zero. The issue though would of course be activity. Also, although mafia can dodge the CV hits via roleblock/Medics etc, that only delays the inevitable. If someone is up for CVing and miraculously survives the night, then you're going to lynch that person the next day, putting you no further behind then if the CV didn't exist. I do agree that the CV's uncertain alignment is an issue though and that he certainly needs to be lynched before the endgame. I also agree that having the extra hit can make people more slack about scum-hunting. When you only have one lynch, you treat that lynch as a precious resource. With more lynch power it's easier to slack off, although of course this doesn't need to be the case. Just wanted to make my thoughts a little clearer, as I felt you were missing my reasoning on the CV. I'm certainly not sure about any of it though, and am willing to be persuaded. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Several strong points: Denying powerful mafia roles by assigning them top slots(roleblocker should have been denied) Having town avoid 'gun' roles to make Bullet Bill much more effective Avoiding roles which are more beneficial to mafia then to town, making the role cop more effective. Using an RNG for defensive roles to try and minimize overlap(4 people sent in Meth Man at one point or another, no one sent in either Vet or BP at any time. It might have RNGed this way, but I bet people intentionally went after it) If mafia want to take Bullet Bill, Medics etc, I think that benefits the town in this set-up, as town still have powerful pro-town roles, while mafia is denied their dark-side equivalents. Mafia can try and muddle up the town with their roles, but that takes a lot of skill and is inherently risky for mafia. Much more so than hiding in the shadows using PoD and Bad Santa to bolster their KP and wipe out any strong townies. | ||
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Radfield
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Reasons it didn't get picked: Southrawrea(50% chance) took Traitor instead of RNGing a chance of JOAT Opz(50% chance) RNGed a defensive role JeeJee(25% chance) either RNGed something else, or didn't bother RNGing bumatlarge(50% chance) almost certainly did not RNG, and simply grabbed something he thought he could get. If all four players(All townies even!) had followed the plan, we would have had around a 90% chance of getting it(I think) | ||
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Radfield
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So again, my feeling is not that the mafia was underpowered, I thought the new roles and the traitor did what they were supposed to. They did get very unlucky and a bit disorganized early on, then unlucky again mid-game with the whole bad santa thing. I agree, It was an extremely unfortunate series of events for mafia. In PYP 1, even without the extra pro-mafia roles, mafia would likely have won had zona not been modkilled. They were in very good shape. As it was, town barely eeked out a win. | ||
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Radfield
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Also given the fact that in PYP town investigative roles will likely outnumber the mafia KP makes delaying the game more attractive as well. Again, thanks for laying that out, it makes a lot of sense. | ||
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