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Ok just got my PM from Hessmyrr. I'm going to break the game wide open because we aren't going to sit around playing the blame game with LSB and the rest of the scrubs for 3 days. I'm also going to explain how I arrived out my stunningly awesome conclusion:
The game has 10 town and 3 scum. In a typical game of Mafia this would be slightly unbalanced in favor of the scum unless the town has a Vigilante. This is why I'm extremely sure we have a Vigilante. Otherwise this game would be ridiculous. Call this assumption 1.
Now based on my own role PM, I know our roles are weakened. Taking this into account let's call the 10 vs 3 setup neutral or 0:0.
When everyone's penalties came out I was wondering if all of us had negative effects. So far it seems like it. For every negative effect I subtracted 1 from the town side.
My penalty
bumatlarge's penalty
zeks penalty
So now we're at -3: 0.
At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. There is no way that the town from a standard game got ALL weakened abilities because this would be a bastard game: The town could never win. I highly doubt this is the case. And so I came to the conclusion my role has a hidden ability: If I visit scum at night I die.
This is why I said my abilities are potentially game breaking. I can tell you what I'm going to do and if it happens to be a scum aligned player, I automatically die regardless of what else happens that night.
If this assumption holds true, and I'm pretty sure it can then we've got this game finished. I can just claim who I'm going to visit ahead of time and if I come back alive the person is town aligned. If I die and there's only one kill at night you'll know I got him by scum (barring a Vigilante hit). So with that said - let's get the show on the road 
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so what you gonna do about, scum?
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false citizen. I only did that in like 4 out of 15 or so mafia games. That doesn't mean I like to do it ^_^
Thanks for taking responsibility of the vote switch though. It almost makes you innocent in my blood stained eyes.
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Pyrr died in the day so I couldn't have been up at night :D
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The plan isn't bad. We've just got lots of haters and scum scared to win. But I'm alive so we've still got a chance because I'm just that awesome.
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Last I checked you've got a vote on Pyrr also. Why you trying to play the blame game instead of figuring things out?
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stop your crying. If you feel that way then ask Hessmyrr to replace you out.
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you can't destroy me because I'm a god.
But if you feel disrespected or something just replace out, no one is forcing you to play the game.
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Go ahead, no one is stopping you from doing it. I actually don't really care if you do or you don't.
*shrug*
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On August 10 2010 12:24 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 09:15 Ace wrote:Ok just got my PM from Hessmyrr. I'm going to break the game wide open because we aren't going to sit around playing the blame game with LSB and the rest of the scrubs for 3 days. I'm also going to explain how I arrived out my stunningly awesome conclusion: The game has 10 town and 3 scum. In a typical game of Mafia this would be slightly unbalanced in favor of the scum unless the town has a Vigilante. This is why I'm extremely sure we have a Vigilante. Otherwise this game would be ridiculous. Call this assumption 1. Now based on my own role PM, I know our roles are weakened. Taking this into account let's call the 10 vs 3 setup neutral or 0:0. When everyone's penalties came out I was wondering if all of us had negative effects. So far it seems like it. For every negative effect I subtracted 1 from the town side. My penalty bumatlarge's penalty zeks penalty So now we're at -3: 0. At this point since the Mafia have no penalties the game would be highly unbalanced in their favor. There is no way that the town from a standard game got ALL weakened abilities because this would be a bastard game: The town could never win. I highly doubt this is the case. And so I came to the conclusion my role has a hidden ability: If I visit scum at night I die. This is why I said my abilities are potentially game breaking. I can tell you what I'm going to do and if it happens to be a scum aligned player, I automatically die regardless of what else happens that night. If this assumption holds true, and I'm pretty sure it can then we've got this game finished. I can just claim who I'm going to visit ahead of time and if I come back alive the person is town aligned. If I die and there's only one kill at night you'll know I got him by scum (barring a Vigilante hit). So with that said - let's get the show on the road How can you even begin to make these calculations without knowing what other blue roles there are? Not only that, but you assume based on them that you have a "hidden ability" which may or may not make sense. I see how these claims would be convenient though, now that you're to be lynched next.
*yawn*
How much you wanna bet I don't get lynched?
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Well obviously I stopped counting at -3 because I don't know anyone else's penalties. But go ahead and try and to lynch me, because this will be very interesting.
All my logic adds up very nicely. None of you have been able to deduce any roles based on penalties and for some reason you keep skipping this point. Claim your penalties or find another way to win. It's really that simple.
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oh are you fucking serious?
:/
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lol wow this is interesting
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jesus christ about time lol
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My role wasn't good for a small setup so I was kind of screwed. Anyway let me explain what I had happening in my head on day 1:
I looked at my role and literally said lol ok this won't be good if I ever use it unless we have some kind of role that's overpowered for the town, this is where my "there has to be some kind of overpowered town role" came into effect. From this I started thinking about a neutral game of town/dt/medic/vigilante vs scum (with a roleblocker). Of course I have no idea there are just 3 straight scum but that didn't change the outcome: I had a 0-0 meaning neutral in terms of town-scum strength. When I thought about my role I was assuming I had to be a weak doctor, meaning if I protected any anti-town player I would die that night which is what I was trying to explain to the town Day 1 about possibly having a broken role. This is why I said it could be very good or very bad.
I put myself as -1 for the town side, meaning using my powers is a loss for the town more than a gain. As soon as I saw bumatlarge's penalty I actually added -2 for him (probably even -3 was more accurate) because his penalty was super bad. In fact I almost thought he might have been scum because that was kind of out there. This had the town score at -3-0 and I already was set firm in the idea something had to give on the town side to even it up.
When zeks claimed it was either a +1 for the town or -1/0 for the town. That's why I asked zeks if his penalty of someone getting a permanent +1 vote on his wagon said it went to someone or town. This was super important because if it said town zeks getting lynched would automatically confirm a townie because the next day they could vote and you'd see +2 votes on the tally. Once he admitted it said person I went v_v because that means a townie or scum on the wagon could get the vote, which means no confirmed townie which is a +1 for us. It didn't so I had put a -1 down bringing us to -4. The only way it would be a 0 is if a townie did indeed get the +1 vote. However if bumatlarge was legit AND actually stumped, and zeks got lynched and the mafia got the vote that was automatically gg. At this point I was pretty certain the town had to have some kind of epic murder role: A vigilante with an ability to kill more than one scum, a detective that could get multiple scum, or me being a weak doc that could confirm pro-town players by protecting them and not dying at night.
This brought me to an interesting dilemma because I REALLY didn't want to use my powers. I was debating hard whether to gamble protecting someone and revealing the protection (leading to my death) or not doing it and letting the scum not know a medic would probably protect me. I pm'd Hessmyr too late anyway when I finally decided that I should act on my hunch of being a Weak Doc though.
But back to how Day 1 played out - this was a classic case of people thinking I'm scummy because of some hidden idea I want their roles. I had already shown that essentially everyone has a role - there is no "blue" role. I just wanted everyone to claim penalties so you could HOLD everyone to their penalties and kill off the liars asap. This was a huge argument which was only surprising because I never thought of Pyrr as someone who would misread what I was saying so many times in a row and jump to conclusions. Along with him trying to find out Bill Murray's penalty early in the day, and then rejecting a mass penalty claim I just didn't think he was being legit. I actually thought he was better than that so I figured no way a pro-town Pyrr could be this ridiculous.
LSB was doing the same thing as Pyrr but being even more ridiculously scared of a penalty claim.
citizen was being citizen which means any game I'm in he argues about any plan I propose. I think this is the third time we've both been pro-town and he's argued about a plan I made up. Of course this didn't really set off my scumdar at all.
At the end of Day 1 before the lynch my suspect list was like this:
Pyrr (definite scum)
Bill Murray(definite scum)
LSB(highly possible)
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everyone else I didn't bother to read too much into yet. The only thing about Day 2 that shocked me is that nobody went back to the lynch Bill Murray train. Really what the hell happened here? This is probably the first really big town mistake that happened during the game. The second was Bill Murray claiming he was a vigilante and not shooting the first night he got a chance - that should have been the kicker right there if anyone had doubts. Of course chaoser missed his chance to shoot BM Day 2 but that doesn't explain why no one made a grand effort to right the ship and go back to Day 1.
But scum deserve lots of credit for managing to not only get Bill Murray to survive after being caught lying TWICE but also just watching town kill ourselves. Even at the end of the game I had no idea that Scamp was scum because trying to figure out what the hell was going on with the votes was too confusing. Add in the fact that I couldn't even believe some of the penalties I just figured someone with a crazy penalty had to be lying. Turns out Scamp's penalty of having limited votes,which isn't even that bad at all and was one of the most harmless penalties was a fake claim. Maybe thinking against the grain was the only way to win this game.
EDIT: @Hessmyrr - How was the town going to clear anyone? Between a detective that has to wait 2 days before checks, a second detective who is a gimp that relies on the first detective dying (the semi-useful one)and a medic that has to telegraph protections how is the town confirming anything? By the time Pyrr gets a check we're on DAY 3 and EVEN then he has to be right about his check. Assuming he's even right and all the usual chaos of believing him as a detective comes out and he gets the right lynch he's going to die the next night. This is also assuming I haven't been killed yet either. Pretty much you need both the medic and the DT to survive to get just the DT confirmed and then you have to pray the DT is right AND you have to hope he survives the night. That is a lot to ask for.
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If I survived Day 2 I was going straight for Bill Murray, I never thought he was innocent, more so Pyrr was really just more obvious scum than he was.
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On August 18 2010 23:27 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 23:20 citi.zen wrote:
Hmmm... I guess then the doctor role was just really weakened - the mafia can choose to hit a non-protected person every time. Since there are no clear ways to confirm people in this set-up (other than the day-vigi), was this nerf necessary?
I must be missing some possibilities here... I think the doctor is more for protection. He're what I think Hesmyrr was thinking. Day 1, random person gets killed Day 2, Pyrr goes check someone, finds if they are green or red. Claims DT. Ace's role was to protect Pyrr. If the mafia decided to hit Pyrr, they'd have to waste the next nights role. Either way, that should create at 2 confirmed townies. Confirmed Townie 1: Ace, Hesmyrr's post in the night automatically gets him confirmed When Pyrr dies, whoever he checks will be confirmed, so that would leave 2 Confirmed Townies
Which would come down to lots of luck
1.)Pyrr would need to find scum with his DT check or else no point in claiming
2.) He'd then have to convince the town about this
3.)Both of us would have to survive
4.)Assuming this all happens, surely Mafia is going to trade their KP of the next night and shoot Pyrr or bank on the fact that he's going to only find a townie and shoot someone else.
5.)If I roleclaim early that I'm protecting Pyrr, they shoot me. If Pyrr's next investigation results in town they shoot him the next night and now we are just down to 1 confirmed townie and 2 scum.
And this is if everything goes right. I don't see how thats such a major advantage to the town here.
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I actually liked the premise of the setup. I just think the town penalties were a little too harsh (in order to stop roleclaims you gutted some of the roles). Maybe needs more players for it all to work out better.
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I was still shocked. I was sure there was no way the town could lynch me but I me dying night 1 caught me by surprise. I was really looking forward to Day 2 because I asked several times for other players to come up with an idea on how to win the game if they won't listen to me and when they didn't I was ready to be forceful.
Damn 
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EPT
