EPTTL Mafia XXVIII - Page 92
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
You offered a plan that your “confirmation” was no counter claim. A dt has to prove he’s a DT after day 2 by handing over a red typically. A vig has to have wasted a shot and been willing to die (see tricode), a hatter would have to offer to sacrifice their-self. Instead you offered a plan that relies on everyone to implicitly trust your word. You are aware of what a hatters job would be, just as much as you know trust in a mafia game isn’t freely given like your asking. Ontop of that your asking for all the blues to claim to you? You have offered nothing but a plan with holes ones you knew were open. Also, if you were really the hatter, you would most likely have a bomb on me already, so are you willing to lay your life on the line Godfather? If your legit you would be able to put the dt the other person your dt confirmed in contact with the other dt liason and would let claiming possible to them. Shall we do this rationally then? Once the two DTs are connected, you are no longer needed. So you should be willing to do your job. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Citizen, you know im criticizing you because what you proposed isn’t a solid plan. You offered a plan that your “confirmation” was no counter claim. A dt has to prove he’s a DT after day 2 by handing over a red typically. A vig has to have wasted a shot and been willing to die (see tricode), a hatter would have to offer to sacrifice their-self. Instead you offered a plan that relies on everyone to implicitly trust your word. You are aware of what a hatters job would be, just as much as you know trust in a mafia game isn’t freely given like your asking. Ontop of that your asking for all the blues to claim to you? You have offered nothing but a plan with holes ones you knew were open. Also, if you were really the hatter, you would most likely have a bomb on me already, so are you willing to lay your life on the line Godfather? If your legit you would be able to put the dt the other person your dt confirmed in contact with the other dt liason and would let claiming possible to them. Shall we do this rationally then? Once the two DTs are connected, you are no longer needed. So you should be willing to do your job. I'm so confused T_T. As long as the other vigi/mad hatter counter claims we know Cit.zen is mafia. If no one counter claims, then he is NOT mafia. Therefore he's confirmed. So why NOT pm him? BloodyC0bbler, maybe you're just confuzzled or maybe I am but can you please explain to me how the above logic does not make sense. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:19 youngminii wrote: ^ Actually if there's a counter claim, we have no way of knowing which claim is true unless citi.zen decides to off himself. In any case, we should just run with it. If citi.zen was scum, he'd be in a bad spot right now. Oh was that what BC was saying? I understand that. However, at the same time it would be very risky for Cit.zen. I would say let's do his plan. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:19 youngminii wrote: ^ Actually if there's a counter claim, we have no way of knowing which claim is true unless citi.zen decides to off himself. In any case, we should just run with it. If citi.zen was scum, he'd be in a bad spot right now. so? 1 scum for all the blues in the game, pretty good trade imo | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:16 Pandain wrote: I'm so confused T_T. As long as the other vigi/mad hatter counter claims we know Cit.zen is mafia. If no one counter claims, then he is NOT mafia. Therefore he's confirmed. So why NOT pm him? BloodyC0bbler, maybe you're just confuzzled or maybe I am but can you please explain to me how the above logic does not make sense. We actually don't know that actually. Anyone could counterclaim (bored townie, a real hatter, red) and you would never know who was the legit one without lynching someone. Citizen proposed a plan that requires some form of proof, and he is in a position to do that. No one has any real proof of citizens role until he actually fulfills its condition. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:28 youngminii wrote: Now who's the one causing spam/clutter. It's a solid plan. If he's scum it doesn't matter, he's not going to learn the identities of any blues/DTs. Also, it'll become inherently obvious that he's scum (alongside with his 'DT') by the way the game turns out. Stop arguing a lost cause, it's a good plan apart from the blue mass claim. Do you not realize how pm circles work? He is the direct contact of a "dt" who would be working with the contact of another dt, etc.. If hes red, two people pm him seperately with contacts, he can get info quite easily once you know who someone is. Offs them. If red, his DT is actually non existant. He could be GF who got checked dt went "hurr most likely legit what gf would choose hatter" and gave info, and then ends up getting filtered (as he's still the voice of his dt) so he still gets fed info from the other dt via a chain. HE still ends up in a better position. You would get tops of one red, for however many confirmed blues/greens you give him + names of circles to snipe. It bewilders me that this is lost on you when he can easily prove his case while maintaining the circle he wants to create. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: He could be GF who got checked dt went "hurr most likely legit what gf would choose hatter" and gave info, and then ends up getting filtered (as he's still the voice of his dt) so he still gets fed info from the other dt via a chain. . If he's GF, that would require some DEEP DEEP thinking. I mean, he'd have to be Funkmaster Jesus in order to know that. Look at it: 1)He'd have to know vigi would shoot, therefore being hatter could help. 2.)If he's not hatter, the real hatter will say so, therefore causing us to know one of them is scum. 3)Wouldn't that DT already be dead? why would they let a DT live. | ||
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Tricode
United States538 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote youngminii | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:35 Pandain wrote: If he's GF, that would require some DEEP DEEP thinking. I mean, he'd have to be Funkmaster Jesus in order to know that. Look at it: 1)He'd have to know vigi would shoot, therefore being hatter could help. 2.)If he's not hatter, the real hatter will say so, therefore causing us to know one of them is scum. 3)Wouldn't that DT already be dead? why would they let a DT live. To find the other DT? Why would a DT claim to someone who could be the GF. He doesn't need a vig to shoot, the vig could die, he could claim he was a vig after, hold kp and claim his hit was blocked + other red claims he took a hit, etc... Keeping a DT alive in a setup like this can actually help you nap the other dt, or a mess of blues, etc... You mention deep deep thinking, and people do think like this in mafia. Most plans of these types require confirming yourself. As i said before dt hands off a red, if the accused flips town, you nailed a red. etc... You also assume the real hatter would claim right away. SEEing someone fake claim means if he claims now he potentially gets voted and dies while his bombs aren't placed appropriately and would die to nap one red, when his job is to nap two. A legit hatter in this plan would have an idea of where to have at least one of his bombs, but more importantly knows his life would have his bombs go off, as well as giving the town a circle he wants. | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
just a heads up i'm going to be out all day tomorrow, driving to check out some granites and then going to an M.C. Escher exhibit. i will be back in time to vote though. let me read all of this citizen stuff and i'll drop a post of my thoughts before i disappear | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
BC, I don't think you're mafia, but I think you are a bit too paranoid. I would caution we wait for the rest of the day before all running to citi.zen saying "OMG SAVE US MAD HATTER MAN!", because it's likely that half the players haven't read it yet, it happened pretty recently. So, to say this now: DO NOT CLAIM TO CITI.ZEN FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 12 HOURS OR SO This is so that if citi is lying, and there is another blue KP role, we give them enough time to read the thread, read this, and counterclaim. IF YOU ARE A TOWN KP ROLE, YOU MUST CLAIM NOW SO WE KNOW THAT EITHER CITI.ZEN OR TRICODE IS LYING We can't discount the possibility that Tricode is the liar, not citi.zen. If Tricode is the liar, then that logically makes BC look very suspicious too, as by this point you'd think another dayvig would have claimed if there was one out there. Either way, if there's a third claim, we know we've caught at least one or two of the mafia (hopefully we can nail the sucide bomber before he asplodes), which puts us in an alright position. Not great, because of the two mislynches, but alright. If nobody counterclaims after an appropriate length of time (I said 12 hours, it can be more or less depending on the general feeling of the town), then we should feel reasonably safe in trusting citi, and we can decide whether to go from there. We shouldn't just blindly mass roleclaim to him (very high chance he gets whacked or SB'd tonight), but we can talk about tactics when that comes up. There's still 24 hours in the day for us to figure this stuff out, so we don't have to stress over it now. For now, I think BC's logic on southrawrea is sound (note: I know I said that BC might be suspicious in certain circumstances, but right now, especially given the detail of his posts, I have no trouble believing he's town), so southrawrea gets my vote. It's also possible that southrawrea is a lazy townie, in which case this should be an excellent motivator. ##Vote: southrawrea | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Do you not realize how pm circles work? He is the direct contact of a "dt" who would be working with the contact of another dt, etc.. If hes red, two people pm him seperately with contacts, he can get info quite easily once you know who someone is. Offs them. If red, his DT is actually non existant. He could be GF who got checked dt went "hurr most likely legit what gf would choose hatter" and gave info, and then ends up getting filtered (as he's still the voice of his dt) so he still gets fed info from the other dt via a chain. HE still ends up in a better position. You would get tops of one red, for however many confirmed blues/greens you give him + names of circles to snipe. It bewilders me that this is lost on you when he can easily prove his case while maintaining the circle he wants to create. Can you pay attention for a minute? I'm saying that he gives the second DT group the name of the original DT. The second DT group can confirm with the DT that citi.zen claims is DT. If he does claim, then it's guaranteed that either citi.zen + DT are both scum or citi.zen + DT are both town. Information such as 'this guy is blue' won't be given out (until maybe later in the game where it's pretty much confirmed that the groups are real), only 'this guy is not red' would be passed around. We would get tops of TWO reds and he doesn't get any blue information until later. I can't believe you don't see this, it's blatantly obvious. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On July 24 2010 15:46 youngminii wrote: Can you pay attention for a minute? I'm saying that he gives the second DT group the name of the original DT. The second DT group can confirm with the DT that citi.zen claims is DT. If he does claim, then it's guaranteed that either citi.zen + DT are both scum or citi.zen + DT are both town. Information such as 'this guy is blue' won't be given out (until maybe later in the game where it's pretty much confirmed that the groups are real), only 'this guy is not red' would be passed around. We would get tops of TWO reds and he doesn't get any blue information until later. I can't believe you don't see this, it's blatantly obvious. Your also assuming that his DT is fine with his name being passed along to until they can confirm eachother an unconfirmed "dt" which leads into possible mafia faking dt to get his info. So instead of bagging two red, a dt can still die. Your idea also has its problems. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
Town KP role should definitely claim. | ||
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