Godfather Mafia

On June 27 2010 11:22 Divinek wrote:


thank god his name isnt like W or something

You are free to lie

On July 01 2010 01:01 youngminii wrote:

But now if GF read your post, he might recruit one of the 'bad' players in line with your argument.
WIFOM

Player List:

1. Chezinu
2. BrownBear
3. YellowInk
4. zeks
5. Thegilaboy
6. Divinek
7. Bill Murray
8. citi.zen
9. L
10. DCLXVI
11. Hesmyrr
12. youngminii
13. bumatlarge
14. Korynne
15. lakrismamma
16. Abenson
17. ElyAs
18. AcrossFiveJulys
19. rastaban
20. BrowneY

On July 01 2010 12:49 Qatol wrote:

Please god no. Smurf game was an absolute failure because it turned into us searching for akas instead of roles. It might be a little better if people can't communicate privately (an ability I miss a lot these days), but I think it would still devolve into searching for akas.

On July 01 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote:
Sadly, Qatol, I'm still relatively noob. This is only like my 5th game or so. I've read some of the older games, and hoooly shit those must have been fun. Kind of considering hosting another smurf game, but not for a while/I'd have to ask Plexa first since that would be placing a ton of stress on him.

Also, Korynne, everyone seems to place us together cause we're like the 3 main "new players" or something like that, I guess.

Anyway, I'm gonna do what BM did and say who I think likely recruits are...

Since Ace isn't in the game, that leaves 4 people I'd consider in the upper echelon of mafia players as far as logic/seeing them play goes: Korynne, Bill Murray, YellowInk, L. Of these 4, I'd say Korynne or L are the most likely of the "top tier" to have been recruited: BM is a bit too high profile to be noticed, and YellowInk is too obvious, given his status as the current golden-boy rookie. Korynne is probably the best mafia player currently in the game, for an example, I'm going to point to BM's example: his game, where she completely schooled 7 players, and kicked my ass even though I was in the position of knowing exactly who she was for the last 2 days (dammit XeliN). L, meanwhile, is simply too good of a townie to allow to stay townie for long, although sometimes people don't listen to him because he can be abrasive/trigger-happy with the FoS (look to TMMM for a great example where he nailed a mafia in the thread, posted some great reasons why, but nobody listened to him because he'd made too many enemies). However, I don't think any of these guys/girl were recruited night one, because that is far too obvious.

After the top tier, there are the other "good" players: the guys who tend to stay active, post some good analysis, but they aren't top tier cause they're prone to dumb mistakes or bouts of inactivity, or just aren't quite good enough at the game (yet). That would be A5J, Hesmyrr, bumatlarge, DCLXVI, zeks, citi.zen, and Chezinu. These players prove they know how the game works, and I actually think this pool is from where most of the recruits will be drawn, precisely for the reason BM says A5J is likely NOT recruited - they possess a certain under-the-radar quality. We have to assume the Godfather is smart until proven otherwise, and I think a smart Godfather would try to recruit the less obvious players, while gently encouraging suspicion against the obvious players - thus, the obvious targets are lynched, while the mafia grows in number and eventually overwhelms the town. Thus, he's going to go for guys like A5J or Chezinu - A5J can avoid detection precisely because people don't expect the same level of activity from him as they do from, say, L, and Chezinu is such a wildcard anyway people will dismiss everything he does as normal Chez behavior, meaning he's actually a very sneaky recruit.

Then, after those guys, we have the rest of the players: either players who are "less optimal" players, or newbies/unknowns. Not a great recruit pool, because there's a higher danger of inactivity.

On July 01 2010 12:38 rastaban wrote:
One thing to keep in mind, the roles were random so it is possible the godfather is a newer player and doesn't quite realize which posters are most valuable. Even then he can probably read previous games and realize who to target.

Anyway I have a semblance of a plan.

In this game the worst thing that can happen is to out a blue as not only can they be killed but they could also be recruited. Not all the blues are equal so here seems the be the priority

Roleblocker
Detective
Jailkeeper
Coroner
Dream Catcher
Veteran
Mad Hatter

I have the Roleblocker listed first because if he blocks even one mafia then they get no night kill. This gives a couple different options. First if we have a confirmed mafia then we can have him blocked which will shut down the mafia. Now the same person can't be blocked twice in a row but if we could find 2 mafia they could be locked down permanently while the rest are sought out.
The best plan for the roleblocker is to start randomly blocking people and if we get a night where there is no kill then you can try again the in 2 nights and cut down mafia kills in half or reveal the culprit. Now this isn't 100% because a veteran and the godfather could be hit and cause this due to 2 lives.

The jailkeeper can keep someone from being recruited, the powerful part of this is that it can be used on the same person multiple times. Assuming that person wasn't recruited this turn (18/20 chance) then if they are continually jailed you actually have someone that you know isn't recruited. One of the good players above would probably be best, though risky since they have a higher chance of a night 0 recruit.

Last thought Bill Murray put up an excellent list, while I don't think he is scum, since they can't directly communicate with the godfather it would be an excellent way to try and suggest some targets for him. Just something to keep in mind

On July 01 2010 12:34 Chezinu wrote:
I cannot believe that this town believes that my behavior is disruptive. You people hardly even know who I am. I have not even spoken a word. If silence causes chaos, then let my voice create order.

To began the task of creating a like-minded community that can overthrow the evil schemes that Kira (Godfather) has ordained as "justice" we must organize ourselves and create a model for the whole town to follow. I think L is a good candidate to lead our investigation for no one knows who this man is or where he comes from. Just like our adversary, Kira..

If you were the Godfather, you would not chose the obvious nor the least likely recruits, but you would choose names that blend in as your average joe. With that said, let us not dwell on the past but on the present and future.

1. No time to act crazy, it is against the rules and hurts town because your death tells nothing.
2. We have new roles and that brings up the standard questions: Are all roles used? How many blues? - I didn't see anything stating that this was a semi-open game.
3. Plans? Should Lovers and Mason roleclaim to rush the mafia while there numbers are low? Should we use this tactic to narrow down the possibility of who the GF could be before mafia numbers grow and the chances of lovers becoming corrupted by the power to kill? Or is this move way too risky? But if we kill the Mothership containing the queen, there will be no reproduction. So we need not focus on the pawns, if we kill one today another will appear tomorrow. If we do dare to go after the pawns, we must hope and pray that the pawn themselves kill the godfather without knowing it themselves. With that in mind, many townies will pretend to be godfather in hopes that the mafia pawns whether it is for selfish reasons to get the mafia to leave them alone
or as an act of conserving their special role or perhaps to be a town hero in some crazy strategy. This behavior will hinder the town in finding the real godfather who may or may not contain scummy behavior. Secret codes to indicate that you are the godfather may need to be banned in order to prevent chaos. DTs should focus on finding the GF, that is your primary objective. Coroner please stick around, for we need you to dig up some graves and examine the bodies. Or perhaps just stick around to examine the unburied bodies.. Not sure what we are going to do with the dead as of right now. Hopefully, we'll end this game before it gets too messy.

For 30% fun:



Did you or did you not use the queen of hearts to decide who would be Juliet?

+ Show Spoiler +

On July 01 2010 14:53 L wrote:
Well, 2 am = sleep time.



BM, wut is this. I expect answers tomorrow mornin'.

G'night.

"Double Lynch
Usable twice per game, the town lynches two people instead of one. This means on the next day everyone gets two votes to distribute between two different people. The double lynch is activated by voting for it in addition to a player (or players if a double lynch is currently activated). The vote must exceed half the number of players voting that day. IE: If there are 20 players voting then the town needs 11 votes to use a double lynch. Double lynches may be voted on starting Day 2. Double lynches may be used on consecutive days. Players cannot place both of their votes on one player when a double lynch is in effect.

On July 01 2010 12:53 youngminii wrote:
Yeah, I see myself as the last choice for the Godfather to pick. Kind of like when you get picked last for sports. Oh God, the humiliation

As for the double lynch, I don't think it's a good idea to do it so early in the game. I mean, the chances of lynching scum/GF is 1/10 even with the double lynch. I'd have thought the double lynch was designed later in the game, when let's say GF has 4 recruits and 2 of them become glaringly obvious. If the number of townies were dwindling, a double lynch would be useful, nay, crucial to the townie's victory. Otherwise (barring non-scum NKs) the number of GF recruits wouldn't drop, whereas the townies would probably reach lylo quickly.

In fact, if it's lylo, even if scum is lynched, the GF will simply recruit another and the mafia would win. So double lynching is 100% necessary for late game.

On July 01 2010 13:12 YellowInk wrote:
A few quick points I want to stick into this flurry.

Mass roleclaim is bad. Bad Chez Bad. Hang the Chez for even suggesting. Cahoots!

Stalemates are not good for town. They're not terrible, either, IF the godfather is dead, but since as a non-roleblocking townie it's hard for one to be sure if we're actually in a stalemate or perhaps had a lucky medic/vet in between two role blocks.

Double lynches should be used in the mid to late game, not in the early game. It's a town empowering ability. Right now we'd be shooting blanks. Later we'll need them to clean up the scum.

If I were the godfather, I would have recruited a top player. Remember that we're going to have a very difficult time lynching any of the skilled players to begin with. While the numbers are thin, they're going to play no differently from any other townie. It doesn't matter that we know who the skilled players are, I am not about to bet the game on lynching L or Korynne or BM tonight. If we were to start lynching these players, the godfather would then switch to going after middling players, so there's not much advantaged to be gained by making a plan to lynch top players.

Ok, so that last point wasn't so quick.

Recruiting games are tough. You can't trust anyone - unfortunately especially those who get named as 'strong'.

On July 01 2010 13:18 BrownBear wrote:
In this game, it looks like the middle is in more danger than the strong players, as most people (myself included) think they'll be recruited.

And now everyone's placing me in the middle pool. Curses. Gotta work harder at being a better player. I'm not striving to be the best player, but I do want to work my skill level to a point where I can at least be considered very good.

But now for some funtimes. Korynne:




Referring to BM's list, placing me as a player minimally likely to be recruited. Then, next page:



OBJECTION! That is a contradiction, missy. Explain yourself?

On July 01 2010 13:25 Korynne wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Man, do I have to explain everything 5 times before people get it? xD
It's not to declare that person as town, it's to not waste lynches on townies. At that point, they are not mafia, so at that point, killing them is lowering town power. We want to keep as many people around as possible.
If mafia chooses not to kill that night, then they wasted a night kill! So instead of killing someone they choose, they have to not kill someone, so that the person we chose dies. That sounds like a pretty friggin awesome deal to me.
We vote to roleblock one person every night, and we vote to lynch that person if no night kill went on at night. So at most 1 person dies per day/night cycle, which prolongs the game which should be good for townies.
We're not really using lynches to find mafia as much as like, forcing mafia+town down to 1KP. And we never let a mafia go unlynched unless it's GF.

This is a perfectly awesome idea unless we have no roleblocker or roleblocker is mafia'd.

On July 01 2010 13:27 Korynne wrote:
Dude you people don't get it! Mafia choosing not to kill anyone is good!

Normal situation:
We lynch X during the day, mafia kills Y during the night.

This situation:
We don't lynch X during the day, mafia kills Y during the night. (we don't lynch X and X can't be mafia)
We don't lynch X during the day, mafia doesn't kill at night and we lynch X the next day. (Mafia doesn't get to kill Y)
We don't lynch X during the day, mafia can't kill at night. (we lynch X, X is mafia)

Use your brain peoples. -.- Simple logic here.

On July 01 2010 13:30 Korynne wrote:


Um, it gives us more townies around. We could always actually lynch someone if we think they are GF. But if we think someone is mafia this is the way to go. The awesome part about this idea is that if we have a town-aligned roleblocker, it means that mafia cannot escape lynch but we just have more townies around.

Also: I'm okay with lynching vet or GF. Since there's probably only one vet, and losing a vet is not a big deal. And like, killing GF by using the fact that he can't die to one night kill actually makes this plan even better!

On July 01 2010 13:30 YellowInk wrote:
Moving on to 'how do we win?'

As should be clear, the godfather needs to be the primary target. Also keep in mind that the mafia don't know who the godfather is. This means the mafia may take out the godfather for us. How do we accomplish this?

Activity levels in the early game are absolutely crucial. I don't care what you're saying, I just want you talking.

If you were a noob-level godfather, you might choose to say almost nothing. The mafia aren't going to hit you because you're not helping the town - they are glad to have inactives hanging out. With an anti-inactivity policy in effect, you're forcing the godfather to talk. So the level 1 godfather would be talking at some moderate amount, but the godfather doesn't want to help the town either, so there are traditional tells to watch for. Being aware of this, just like watching for usual scum, we want to keep a close eye on the middle-of-the-road players that are contributing minimally but being active in the thread. The level 2 godfather might be very active to escape any such scrutiny, though probably not spouting out a plan like I am here.

But we don't even force the godfather to play at this level unless we force everyone to talk. Now since we KNOW almost everyone is town aligned right now, we can rightfully expect almost every single player to be active in thread and putting forth their ideas. Therefore, any player that is playing sub-optimally right now needs to be lynched. If we don't get rid of the inactives now, we'll be plagued with them the rest of the game - and even a DT check won't save their face since they can get recruited.

If we force the godfather to be active, they may get hit by the mafia. If the godfather remains inactive or suspiciously unproductive, we'll lynch for it.

Speaking of DTs, yes, it is worth outing yourself immediately to finger the godfather.

Then, once the godfather is dead, we'll be at a somewhat informed state of the game and be able to immediately go after scum. Hopefully we'll take out a couple scum along the way anyhow - but this should not be a priority. After all, lynching a scum and having one recruited from our ranks is a net loss to us.

Lets get to it, shall we?

On July 01 2010 13:34 youngminii wrote:

You're ignoring the fact that the GF will be recruiting twice as fast, relative to the amount of deaths going on.

Also, consider this scenario:

N1: We vote to roleblock L. Mafia kills BM. People trust L and vote to roleblock someone else. N2: GF recruits L.

It simply won't work.

On July 01 2010 13:35 DCLXVI wrote:

Umm... all of this is fine except the GF recruits another mafia each night so the KP is essentially 2. I don't understand how you think that the mafia not killing someone is a good thing in this scenario -
we roleblock someone
GF recruits (please not a blue role)
no deaths show
we lynch a townie
overall we lose two townies with no chance of hitting a mafia. The only possible benefit is a lucky blue role like DT finding mafia
Yes prolonging the game is a good thing, but not at the expense of having more mafia recruited while killing 0 of them. How are we not wasting lynches on townies in this situation? We are only killing townies.

On July 01 2010 13:48 YellowInk wrote:
Alright, just one last word before I head out for a few hours. The best thing every single town aligned person can do is talk. The preference is to talk productively - we're not going to find the godfather or scum today unless we get super lucky. This is the day you can trust almost every single person around you. Make plans. Talk about how the setup works.

If you don't talk in a productive manner, you will be lynched. I will be grading you.

Furthermore, if your 'productivity' slacks off later in the game it could be because you've been recruited. If we don't have a strong baseline for good activity right now, we won't be able to read it later in the game. Either way we lynch you.

So everyone needs to voice their thoughts and provide new ideas. Every single one of you.

On July 01 2010 14:30 L wrote:

I'm lookin' at it :3.

I see some pretty large problems with it, specifically that mafia KP is 1, which means that a no-hit night is a fantastic way to frame someone. Additionally, there's a problem in that the roleblocker needs to somehow get information into the thread about who he's chosen to roleblock unless we use a set rotation and the moment he does he's gonna get stolen. I also don't see how we can run a rotation if the roleblocker himself might be put into the lineup, because that would be a bit off.

The only workable alternative is that we have the roleblocker come out into the open and we chain-jail him. We can only really do that on day 1 because if we don't, that would be a very, very good place for mafia to gambit and contest the block.

There's also the coroner issue; unless the mafia kp meter is hovering at a breakpoint, killing a mafia won't even be known. Even if we shoot the real roleblocker, the mafia stand in might simply pretend he's blocked someone random and have his team put a no-hit list in.

Put simply, we will not know how many mafia members there are, and whether or not a particular kill of ours is effective until blues step up. The moment another group of blues step in, our jailor won't be able to protect them all from recruit/hits.

That's kinda the catch this game; unlike a game wherein mafia would be outted by a gambit, here we might have an early coroner kill, then zero certainty regarding roles thereafter.

On July 01 2010 14:41 citi.zen wrote:
Lots of confusion here, but I guess that's par for the course. A few thoughts:

1. I like the enthusiastic idea of "going for the GF first" - but without confirmation from a blue role it ain't happening, unless we get exceptionally lucky.
2. Thank god no more "naive" or "paranoid" DTs in this game. Given #1, extending the game gives the blue roles more time to gather information. Korynne's RB idea does this by a very little bit, I don't dislike it so far.
3. Chez and L suggest using the mason / lover pairs... A single mason probably works better since you don't stand to lose two people at once. As Chez says though, they probably know best & can decide together.
4. The mafia "team" is most vulnerable at the beginning, when it numbers 1 or 2 players. This likely impacts their recruitment patterns - ie go for "safer" recruits earlier.
5. youngminii - are you paying attention even a little bit to this game?

On July 01 2010 16:45 BrownBear wrote:


Is that a compliment?

But I'm slightly confused. You have this awesome big long post responding to a bunch of people, including MAJORLY pointing FoS at Korynne... then you decide to lynch A5J for a jeep tell, saying he's the only obvious scumtell so far?

Wut?

On July 01 2010 17:23 Korynne wrote:


How does that ruin the game?? We have to lynch, so we lynch who we think is godfather and we roleblock who we think is most likely to be mafia.

Just stop arguing with me with poor logic now if you aren't red. (Legit complaints are addressed, ex when someone brought up the fact that we might not have a roleblocker, or suggesting extending it to two days because roleblocker can block for no more than two nights in a tow, etc.)

What do you think about lynching A5J, Yellow?

On July 01 2010 18:53 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
BM, are you just mad that I trashed you in your HP thread? You've been gunning to lynch me since the moment the day began lol. If you really think that being 3rd to vote for elyas is scummy, I will justify it in the same way I did right before the vote post: elyas has been an inactive and useless player in both games I've played with him, so if someone's gonna die today I'd choose him. Of course, if I hear a good argument for someone else I'd change my vote in a heartbeat.

If you just think I'm a likely person to be recruited due to my perceived skill level and name recognition in relation to everyone else in the game (most have been saying middle of the line), then I would say you probably have your head on straight. Go ahead and keep pressuring me, I can take it.

On that note, one person we should keep an eye on is citizen. He is a decent player, but is very quiet even when he's town. He'd be a good person for mafia to recruit.

"I will justify it in the same way I did right before the vote post: elyas has been an inactive and useless player in both games I've played with him, so if someone's gonna die today I'd choose him. Of course, if I hear a good argument for someone else I'd change my vote in a heartbeat."

On July 01 2010 19:18 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:

I can reference an ongoing game that you are the MOD of (in other words, you are not PLAYING) and that I spoke in publicly if I want if I believe it's influencing your behavior, thanks.



hi! I suppose you forgot you wrote this, it's not like you voted immediately when the day started for me:



Wow BM, you must be an amazing scum hunter. Deciding who the god father is before they've even posted! Let's all get behind BM!



I have a very serious question for you: really? REALLY? are you kidding me? You've deduced that citizen is the coroner? lmfao.

On July 01 2010 19:18 Korynne wrote:
I'm going to bed, should be awake before the end of the day, but voting just in case. xP

Voting for BM because I get a funny feeling from him like I mentioned before. He's actually contributing like a normal person, which freaks me out. Which would be a shame if it turns out he's just a regular townie/blue role trying to step up his game. BM if you link me to a game in the past where you've played "normally" I'd definitely retract my vote.

It's not like a real serious vote, like I said, I'm going to bed, so like, figured I'd vote just in case.

On July 02 2010 01:00 Korynne wrote:
Like honestly BM, if you've read any of my games, you know that other than the game where I was scum in your game (though that doesn't really count because that was f11) I've tried to propose some sort of lengthy strategy at the beginning of the day.

Also I was going to bed, you're way too sensitive to the vote on you and you don't usually seem like the OMGUS kind of person. Like I said, which you have not addressed in any way, you're playing differently this game than all others. You could at least have said, well gee thanks I try to help out for real now and I get voted on for that? You just completely ignored that part of my post. So yeah, heavy FoS on you.

What's wrong with my idea?
If we implement it we can do up to 3 actions a day instead of just 1.
Actions:
#1 Roleblock a mafia, this can block all 3 KP if we hit the mafia. I highly doubt mafia is going to pretend to not kill anyone when a townie gets blocked, they could just kill that townie and 2 others. Even when mafia has 1 KP it's between not killing and letting the one guy (we chose) die, and just killing the person that they feel like is most detrimental to town.
#2 DT check a GF, since that's the only way we can find the GF and a GF to DT trade is like, absolutely worth it especially since we have a system for mafia now.
#3 Lynch an inactive, since we have to lynch everyday, if the roleblock and DT check don't work out then we just lynch an inactive, like we can do today since we haven't started DT checking and roleblocking.

So how do we implement this plan?

#1 Pseudovote in this thread for mafia and GF, like ##mafia: A ##GF: B
#2 At night, roleblocker blocks the person who got the most votes for mafia (even if they don't agree on the person being mafia, and of course they don't have to roleblock themselves, but they can't roleblock anyone else at night if they are the one designated to be roleblocked) and detective checks the person who town voted on as most likely to be GF (with the same clause as above, except if the town voted for the DT then he can check whoever he likes)
#3 In the morning, if the DT found GF, we lynch GF.
If no night kills happened, we lynch the person that was roleblocked.
If neither of those happen, then we lynch an inactive (they don't contribute to us very much, and they're harder to read, and this forces people to talk)
We can also vote for double lynch if there's a lot of people we want to kill (like we got a GF and there was no night kills, vote for double lynch the next day).
This way we get through 3 things a day. Now for everyone who doesn't understand how this is beneficial to us, let me spell it out for you.

Above method: Up to 3 actions a day
Normal method: We have to choose to either lynch someone we think is mafia (to lower their KP), choose to lynch someone we think is GF (to stop the recruiting), and probably have no power to threaten the inactives because we're too busy hunting scum.

Okay peoples? This sounds like a wonderful idea.

On July 02 2010 01:17 Korynne wrote:
Bill you're laughable at your accusation of me. I'm acting funny and that's in line with my scum meta? The only game I was scum was your game, where it was f11 so there was no reason to make any let's break the game plans. And I'm pretty sure everyone in that game thought I was acting just fine and normal.

The game I acted "funny" in might be the PYP where Foolishness (mafia) kept accusing me of being scum because of one thing I repeatedly say (well you can lynch me to find out since I'm vanilla and then you'll know for sure if Foolishness stole Comp Vig) that he's like omg that's so typical scum. And I was townie that game.

So like, worst argument ever. -.-

"Now Double Lynch (proposed by BM). This is bad idea, and many people already spoke up why, but let me summarize the main points: 1) There are only two double lynch available in this game and should be saved until seriously needed, 2) Using double lynch at d1, when there are lack of information, only increases chance of bandwagoning scum slightly but greatly increase the chance of bandwagoning PR (since there are more of them) which is exactly what we do not want. I am curious to know the Bill Murray's reasoning behind his support- it is in responsibility of the plan proposer to explain why that plan is good idea, you know.

On July 02 2010 03:48 Korynne wrote:
I'm going to go ahead and get this started.

##GF: Bill Murray
##Mafia: citi.zen

Like I said before, BM is acting really weird. But he seems to be contributing to town. So I say we DT check him. citi.zen is a good player, but he's quiet, so might be a good target for GF since he doesn't draw attention.

On July 02 2010 04:12 Ace wrote:
Policy Police!

On July 02 2010 04:14 ElyAs wrote:





Sorry ? You respond to me and you say I am inactive ? What is this I don't even

On topic, I think the one proposing the plan should be checked. Most of the time it's a good way to stay under the radar. And at least if we know you are not the GF, we know you weren't trying to break the game in your favor.

So :

##GF : Korynne

On July 02 2010 04:56 Korynne wrote:
I am not OMGUS tunneling. I said before, your whole attitude this game is very weird in comparison to previous games with you.


How is that WIFOM?? If mafia doesn't choose to send in a kill then they are choosing to let the person we choose die, rather than them choosing someone to kill. I don't know about you but if I was mafia I'd rather kill who I wanted to kill than waste a night not killing anyone, then just let town lynch someone town chose the night before as scummy looking.
we would not be sure which cup our poison was in basically
either it's them not sending it in or us making terrible assumptions
the game i am scum in mafiascum on we didnt send in a kill night 1, so korynne, your play is in line with current scum-meta and is probably being influenced by someone else regardless of whether or not you ar pming someone IN the game, you could be pming ace for instance and him guiding you on "how to play scum" perhaps

scum meta currently = not sending in a kill night 1 from what i've weened
this is what you are advising
you are scum



The only person who looks like a vet is the GF. If it was down to killing someone that was 50/50 GF/vet, I'd go for it. There's other power roles in this game, I don't see the significance of vet (actually I never quite saw why vet was any good).

vet is a GREAT power role to roleclaim as medic or detective, soak a mafia hit, then go LULZ im the vet. Confirmed townie especially if you breadcrumbed. some mafia

i guess you don't see that?
It's EXACTLY how Ver would do it.


Why don't you people get it? We're dragging it on by keeping more town players, not by letting mafia slip by. If we find a mafia and roleblock him, then he will die. The only thing we're doing by using my plan is keeping more townies alive. It doesn't matter if GF recruits them that night.
Scenario 1: We RB the guy, GF recruits the guy. => one more mafia
Scenario 2: We lynch the guy, GF recruits another guy. => one less townie, one more mafia

keeping more townies alive doesnt mean they wont be recruited
we have a dreamcatcher to soak whatever blue role we mislynch so keep your mouths SHUT.


Oh that makes you look real town. Hey guys, we're doing this, we're not discussing, kthx.


Still don't see how I'm acting oddly. Does anyone else agree with BM that I'm acting oddly?


You pointed out something obvious, how does that explain your case.
Hey BM, the sky is blue! Now just drop it!

Also I lol at the fact you somehow decided citi.zen was coroner.

OK, but why do you have to spam the thread quoting 2 posts YOU DONT EVEN RESPOND TO

MAFIA GF
LYNCH HER NAO


Someone sounds a little upset. Totally unlike you in other games where you're begging people to keep you alive. And like seriously, chill. This is completely unlike you in any game. You're always chill, and now you're freaking all over the place.

I'm not freaking out at all, im locked into my read.
I am not going to waste away my read like I did last game with YellowInk
I don't care if people don't believe me
you are a very good lynch in terms of winning for the town if you are the godfather


I'm going to say that someone is doing something, without providing reason for it, and it is in line with her scum meta, because in the only game she's scum, she totally fooled town by acting totally normal. You're the OMGUS here, not me.

I was the mod of that game
I am very in line with how you would be acting
you are still my #1 suspect, but not worthy of a vote really because the town can't believe it.

I'm creeped out because you're acting very different this game. If other people think you're acting normal then I'll drop it. I'm under the impression that if everyone thinks you're being different you're probably different, and if everyone thinks I'm acting different then I must be acting different and not noticing it. But as far as I can tell no one has told me I'm acting weird except you. You also stated earlier you were getting other vibes from me, very convincing arguments Bill, we'll win the game on your "vibes."

I am acting different because my play has gotten a lot better.
Moderating a large theme game gives you more perspective.
YOU are the one acting funny, not me sis.

I think you're the one squirming here BM, not me. You're freaking all over my votes, whereas I just voted for you and explained it wasn't even a serious thing. And I've already changed my vote today.

You voted for me BEFORE you explained it. Get it straight or get out of my game.


Is this what you consider to be one of the reasons I'm scummy? Honestly? More support for your trash talk please.


Oh gee, you're so great at scumhunting now aren't you? I'm sorry, the important thing in this game isn't to find the truth, but to CONVINCE people of the truth. Your reasonings being a "vibe" and OMGUS and random accusations without support doesn't help your case in any way.

Yes, I am. People just dont know to listen yet.


Oops, looks like you'll have to keep voting for me then. I see absolutely no reason why you voted for me.
Yet again, you act like you provided reasons before, when you provided them after I called you out on trying to push a mislynch because you are scum-driven


Because putting things in bold makes them the truth. I am not OMGUS tunneling. I could care less if you were accusing me or someone else. I think you are acting weird. I already mentioned this when you were accusing A5J instead of me. Scumhunting isn't about "creativity," so keep spewing your bullshit.
Oh, and I'm totally cool with only using half my brain, normal humans only use 10% anyway.

"Forgive me if I don't believe that halfway through your modded game where half the players are pissed off at you for not making the rules clear, a game that I'm not playing, you decide you have an epiphany and you're the best scum hunter in the world. Your play just magically got a lot better overnight? It was shitty in TMMM"

I'm sorry BM, I will provide my reasoning in the thread before I ever cast my vote, even if it is mostly just a placeholder before I go to bed. I'm sorry I broke your invisible rule of explaining myself in the thread before I go vote, even if I do explain myself within 5 minutes after I vote.

On July 02 2010 06:43 Korynne wrote:

Uh, no it's not. If we find mafia, we still lynch them. When we don't find mafia, we lynch people we think are GF or inactive and not helping town.

On July 02 2010 06:44 Korynne wrote:

Right, so either way, you live. Good plan, good plan. What will it be later?
BM: SORRY GUYS I'M ACTUALLY NOT THE GREATEST SCUM HUNTER THAT EVER LIVED, PLZ DONT KILL ME I'M TOWN, SRSLY!!

On July 02 2010 06:25 Korynne wrote:
I'm proposing a real plan. BM is shitting all over it with his spam like he does in every other game. He thinks that because he thought YellowInk is mafia in TMMM that now he's the greatest scum hunter that ever lived.

I guess that means one in 8 random number generators is also the greatest scum hunter that ever lived.

Let's just lynch Abenson.
lol

On July 01 2010 14:53 L wrote:
Well, 2 am = sleep time.



BM, wut is this. I expect answers tomorrow mornin'.

G'night.

"People have thrown around Korynne, L, BM, and YellowInk as possible GF or mafia candidates. These guys are the 4 most active players in the thread,"

On July 02 2010 09:53 L wrote:

You say that, yet people failed to realize the same last game.

Just sayin' bro, most people are bads.

On July 04 2010 13:38 youngminii wrote:

DT can't check first night.

Also, this post DOES seem a bit scummy. I don't really have any reasoning behind it so I'm just going to ignore this scummy vibe I'm getting.

So... What now?

On July 04 2010 15:16 youngminii wrote:
@%I()M@%MU%($)Ty

There's nothing WIFOMy about a mason claiming. You're making it out to be more than it is.

On July 04 2010 15:21 Divinek wrote:
it's ok bm we can be scum buddies

On July 05 2010 07:52 youngminii wrote:

So that if he dies, the other mason can step up and prove his masonhood by providing the key.
Seriously, where have you been?

On July 05 2010 09:18 Chezinu wrote:
I wish I could pm you the answer I got. I decided to send the translation to Darth to reveal post-game to see whether it was right or not. But remember I shoot blanks a lot and I'm full of fluff.

On July 04 2010 16:58 BrownBear wrote:
Also, Korynne is leaving wut?

And Coroner. Motherfucker.

I voted for myself as a placeholder just in case of an emergency where I can't reach my computer. I'm working 17 hour days at the moment, so it's a possibility. Let's get some discussion going. To start out, Divinek: bumatlarge gf? Bumatlarge: Leaving and throwing random vote on Chez?

Wtf?

On July 05 2010 06:05 citi.zen wrote:

I never thought Korynne was red, but you supposedly did, so I am curious: why the change of mind? has your analysis of Korynne changed, or do you view Ace as so much better than Korynne that keeping him alive is worth the extra risk?

On July 05 2010 07:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Just sifting through most of this thread, like to point out a few minor things as a newcomer into this game.

L Is far less active than normal
Citi.zen is less active than normal
BM has made a few really odd plays (even for him)

Between YI/BM/Korynne(ace now) one is highly like to be traitor, or just three people who can't agree.

Will do something more concrete after work tonight, or if I can manage to get a well thought out post before it.

On July 05 2010 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Also, after talking to DTA he needs to update his OP with how dream catchers work.

If a blue is recruited/or dies the dream catcher gets a random role. His OP states that it is only if a blue is recruited.

So if Lakris' death post is truthful (ie hes not traitor/gf), we have to hope that a) there is another coroner or

B) that whatever dream catcher (if we have one) hit that magical 1 in 6 chance of getting coroner.

As such, any plans thought of from this point on should just ignore the possibilities of a coroner for now. Bleh what a fucked situation to walk into.

On July 05 2010 08:11 Divinek wrote:


ya you got me so pegged bro when i flip red im going to congratulate you on your excellent detective work

On July 05 2010 08:17 youngminii wrote:

Do you still think Zeks is scum?

Zeks is mason. There's like a 99% chance he is.

There's absolutely no way the masons wouldn't have counterclaimed if Zeks wasn't mason. This has been argued a thousand times already.

Now assuming Zeks is mason, which is 100% reasonable, the second mason can freely claim without fear of persecution because he has the ONE ONE KEY TO RULE THEM ALL.

On July 05 2010 08:41 youngminii wrote:
Chez is right, BM your argument has massive flaws.

1. It has already been reasonably assumed that there are 2 masons by extrapolating the words of Darth.
2. What's wrong with using a key and a website? That's probably the most efficient way on encryption/decryption.
3. Why are you even blaming Chez? Is there some sort of meta I don't know about?
4. With all the confusion (some of which that was made by you, BM), I'm not surprised that Zeks posted the key on D2. Do you realise how hard it was for us to even decide who to roleblock?
5. Even an incompetent retard would know well enough to counter-claim.
6. The chances of having 2 inactive masons is astronomically low.
7. YellowInk, you and Divinek are running around in circles drowned in WIFOM and causing confusion.

There is no need to cause so much confusion. Accept the fact that Zeks is mason and move on.

Your posts and YellowInk's posts seem genuinely townie and confused. Divinek's posts seem scummy and they don't seem confused, they seem to be aimed at creating confusion.
Hence, vote Divinek

On July 05 2010 14:35 BrownBear wrote:
I think BM is correct, but I also think that we're now entering the stage where the really really good players are going to start being recruited. Now that mafia has a couple players (and remember the GF can only recruit 5), the GF is probably going to want to add the best scum players possible.

Take Ace, for example. Especially after his how-to-play-scum thread, I would be very surprised if the GF does not recruit him soon. We should probably take necessary precautions, unless Korynne was recruited already and he inherited that.

On July 05 2010 14:40 BrownBear wrote:


On the flip side, what GF in their right mind would recruit Abenson? In normal games he's a liability for town, but in a recruitment game he might actually be an asset.

On July 05 2010 14:52 youngminii wrote:
Okay I just want to once again, strongly suggest that each and everyone of you go back and look over Divinek's posts. I'm sure you'll find his posts extremely scummy (at least starting Day 2). Now lynching Abenson is a policy lynch and I actually wouldn't mind if you guys chose to default to that, but I honestly believe there is a strong likelihood that Divinek is scum and that we should lynch him.

We should stop dawdling around and actually start scumhunting. My scumdar was set off by Divinek and just because he says "lol im gonna laugh at u so hard when u find out im townie" does not mean he is a townie. In fact, that is one of the worst defenses you came come up with whether you are townie or scum.

On July 05 2010 15:26 BrownBear wrote:



Job as a camp counselor. Working from 7 AM to 11 or midnight most days. Sometimes I just don't have the time to read everything, so I skim what doesn't look important. Sorry.

Also, neither blue nor red. Green.

On July 05 2010 15:27 youngminii wrote:
Okay I can't really reference it but by confusion I mean all the arguments about Zeks and all the WIFOM going around etc.

Which means I'm guilty of it too. Cool.

But yeah since we have no one better to lynch (barring inactive policy lynching), gogo Divinek.

On July 05 2010 15:28 youngminii wrote:
Myeh I'm not seeing how Korynne's plan will totally benefit scum. I say this with absolutely no confidence.

On July 05 2010 15:46 youngminii wrote:
Okay I almost failed my first year maths course so I'm just going to trust what you say.
I don't understand why in your scenario the same person is being roleblocked and jailed. More than once too. Don't think it'll make a difference in that the plan is flawed.

Well I didn't want to use the plan for multiple nights anyway, and did Korynne say why she wasn't going to be on? I don't remember seeing any "replace me, gotta go for a few days" posts by her.

On July 05 2010 15:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Oh? I must have missed the common consensus of that agreement + I am seeing at least one person vehemently opposed to it. I will try to think of a better and more optimal plan if we must have one, but her idea is rocky at best in this setup. Combine in that if a roleblocker is recruited they become a mafia roleblocker, it is a rough role to rely on.

On July 05 2010 16:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


IT could work except that you have to prove the DT before it works. You could theoretically have 4 people claim dt, and would basically have to choose who to believe to jail.

A mass roleclaim can potentially lure people out, or put them in a hot spot to be caught, but without a coroner we are still screwed. (or we get really lucky lynch and notice mafia KP isn't rising).

On July 05 2010 16:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Ok here is the jist of a general thought I have going.

(this will hopefully defuse the use of a coroner for the most part.)

All town aligned members claim their role on death in the way that lakris did. (note that GF, traitor and any mafia dead will lie)

Now DT's this is important for you to note. Everytime someone claims, you mark it in your list.

As it stands now, we can most likely agree that unless we got lucky last night we are sitting on 1 GF, 2 Mafia, 1 traitor. This is 4 anti town of our remaining 17, giving town aligned of 13.

You know your own role. You also know the role of 1 other person to a 99%ish ratio. That means out of 17 players remaining, you now have a list of 15 to check, 14 after todays lynch. After every check you make a mark on your list of whos blue/green and red.

Keep this in mind as people die and Claim a role, add it into your spreadsheet under a seperate column. If we have a coroner and you get lucky, a fair bit of your list will be filled accurately, then you can a) reveal what information you have which the town can then act on
b) more accurately pin down red/gf

I will now try to figure out some way to confirm a DT + keep them jail locked. I would hope that one mason is also somehow a DT as that would make life simpler.

On July 05 2010 16:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


He makes no reference anywhere to sanity however

I will be heading to bed soon, but I would strongly suggest people as they wake up to go look at the posts of people who have been semi lurking. With the 4th of july done and canada day done, we should be ignoring all excuses like "sorry social life called" as well, when you commit to a mafia game, you should be able to find some time in a day to play.

I am keeping my vote on DCLXVI for now as out of every player in this game so far, he has rarely posted (at least to my memory) and seems to be rather under the radar.

On July 05 2010 17:07 youngminii wrote:
If you think Korynne's plan gave too scum too much power, what are you doing considering mass roleclaim?

Roleclaiming would only give scum complete and utter control of the game. They would know who's who and just pick off the most dangerous. It's uncalled for. Roleclaim in a dire situation such as lylo, not now.

On July 05 2010 16:18 Bill Murray wrote:
We are going to claim. This is gonna be cool. Claiming would help us coordinate the blues, would pressure the Godfather, and would just simply be more fun.

We can't have a safehouse for our DT? Who says? With claims we can! If L is a jailkeeper and BC is a DT we can have BC staying on L's couch checkin up on the internet to see if YellowInk is money laundering. We could have a "veteran" claimer roleblocked if we have more than one vet claim! IMAGINE the POSSIBILITIES. Hatter putting bombs on "townies"? np. Veterans claiming Jailkeeper? NP NP. Dreamcatchers claiming when they get a role such as jailkeeper and detective? amazing. P.S. if you're the coroner say you're the traitor and laugh while linking to an article about Christopher Walken dancing on Broadway

Claiming definitely pressures the Godfather through making him claim something he isn't. It would make him lie to exist, or lurk. Either one of them could potentially be dissected as scummy play. By pressuring him, we can kill him, and by killing him, we can eliminate that stupid ass recruitment factor. You have to cut the head off of the snake for it to quit growing in this sense. Roleclaiming in a limited factor, with certain roles still hiding (coroner, for instance), would possibly benefit the town through finding the godfather via a dt being kept alive or through having him make a mistake via the pressure.

Roleclaiming will be more like actually fighting a war, using maelstrom and storm, as opposed to playing Russian Roulette. This is a GAME. It is meant to be FUN. Let's have fun and roleclaim together :p

On July 06 2010 01:43 YellowInk wrote:
Alright, there has been a lot of poor thought process in this game, but this one takes the cake. If this were a normal game I would say lynch Bill Murray! But it isn't, so I'm not, read on...

This is what you should be doing if you have a role.

Since with Ace and BC entering the game there has been some renewed discussion, let me add some clarification to the idea of the 'modified Korynne plan'. The strength of Korynne's plan was that you could know who was being roleblocked without having to out the roleblocker. If you select 3 people and make the roleblockers block among them, you're getting the worst of both worlds. You're encouraging overlap between multiple roleblockers, and you're not getting the information of who was blocked. Roleblockers should stick to complete non-disclosure as indicated in the linked post above.

To those who counter my hanging Abenson - I am not interested in hanging him because I think he's a likely recruit. I don't even care about hanging recruits right now! The godfather needs to be targeted first and foremost. The godfather needs to find a way to blend in. If Abenson is getting defended, then clearly his strategy is effective. Tomorrow will be the same - we're going to find someone who hasn't been contributing and hang them.

Now back to our fine Bill Murray. He would be an excellent target for role blocking and mad hatter bomb laying. This is how we deal with people who are fresh recruits - not lynch! Lynches should be targeted at those whom you think are going to hit a godfather candidate and nowhere else until we get confirmation or choose to assume that the godfather is dead.

Also note that just because Bill Murray is an excellent roleblock target doesn't mean that as a roleblocker you should definitely block him. With the state of the game, if I were a roleblocker, I'd probably put 30-60% on blocking him, 40-70% on blocking someone else of my choice. You always want to have some uncertainty in your decisions so that you can maximize your effectiveness since it is, of course, uncertain whether Bill Murray is red and whether there are other blockers besides yourself. Overlapping blocks on a town aligned or traitor BM is a significant loss for the town.

I believe Abenson is still an excellent godfather candidate. Furthermore, if he is town aligned, we get the extra bonus of hanging someone who we won't be able to read should he be recruited in the future. I agree that Abenson would be an unlikely recruit for night 1 or 2, but night 4 or 5 if we're at each other's throats and he's still alive for some reason, he could be an excellent recruit.

Regardless of if you agree with me about Abenson, you should choose your lynch based on who you think is likely to be godfather. While the choice of godfather was random, the players each choose their own play style to match their role.

"I cannot be sure that he is just an aggressive player normally, but this sort of play is not beneficial to the town. Trying to get everyone to reveal without the support of at least most of the town could force us into a bad position. Had other players posted their roles then the town might be forced into roleclaiming to protect the few who claimed. Even if he does think his plan is beneficial, it is dangerous to try to force that play especially without support."

On July 06 2010 07:34 youngminii wrote:
DT definitely has higher priority than coroner.

On July 06 2010 08:32 citi.zen wrote:
How can everyone completely ignore Chezinu? I mean... Abenson? Really? I can't help but laugh. Go read chezinu's posts this game before you vote...

"If any mafia member is roleblocked, all mafia lose their killing power that night. "

On July 06 2010 16:34 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


Do you even read the thread in between your nonsensical spamming?

On July 06 2010 16:37 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


It's no personal vendetta. Read your posts. Unfortunately, you've not done much besides confuse the town.

On July 06 2010 16:43 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


so why don't you think the coroner action will go through?

On July 06 2010 23:09 citi.zen wrote:
Yup, just ignore bm, as usual. Looking forward to the flip - finally some information .

On July 07 2010 05:11 BrownBear wrote:
I actually think mass roleclaim is a good idea, YI, simply because of the numbers.

Tomorrow, it will be 8 to 4 barring a very lucky roleblock. If we don't lynch a scum, when the next day rolls around, it will be 6 to 5. That's bad. Very bad. We need as much information as possible, and we need it right now.

On July 07 2010 05:25 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:


and why are you so confident that none of the dead people are scum?

BM if I find out you are town this game I'm going to ::headdesk::

On July 07 2010 07:47 zeks wrote:
All or nothing. Lets roleclaim. Force the issue on the mafia.

I am still wondering why we didn't name claim earlier in HP mafia. fuck

On July 07 2010 12:16 Bill Murray wrote:
We are roleclaiming
I am the jailkeeper

On July 07 2010 12:19 DCLXVI wrote:
Well I was doubting youngminii for a while until citi.zen posted.
So there should be 2 mafia left at the end of this day versus 10 of us. Do we wait to double lynch until our DT(s) have another night to investigate?
not sure what to say about citi.zen saying BM is definitely town. I don't think that he would want to link himself to a recruit when he is so close to dying, but he did make that stupid statement. Does citi.zen normally play that badly? Would he be the type to think that he could help his recruit out of the situation or does he want us to kill a townie while he dies too?

On July 07 2010 12:23 youngminii wrote:
Lol okay in light of what just happened, I suggest the following strategy:

We are fairly sure that I'm Detective and that citi.zen is GF. There is reasonable evidence that it is so. There is also the scumminess of BM's posts (why would he defend citi.zen after his blatant error?). He also tells DT to claim when I've already claimed.

So, here's what I think. Jailer should jail me. I'll check BM. Roleblocker should block YI or some other person that people think is scum. That way, we can check BM and YI at once.

I for one don't think YI is scum. I think BM might be scum. I think there's enough evidence to prove that I am really a DT and that citi.zen is a liar.

I don't want to be roleblocked simply because that is wasting a DT check.

On July 07 2010 12:27 Chezinu wrote:
but if you jail young, I can't place a bomb on him..

On July 07 2010 12:29 BrownBear wrote:


You are flailing so hard it's not even funny.

You don't play this bad, BM. You are definitely scum.

On July 07 2010 12:32 BrownBear wrote:


Manner up and calm the fuck down. You are being a total asshole right now, and honestly, it's not called for.

Take 5, walk away from the thread, then post a coherent defense post, longer than 1 line, and I'll listen.

Until then, I'm going to just let you rage.

On July 07 2010 12:34 YellowInk wrote:
I almost feel silly for doing this, but I don't want to see any accidental slip ups. Probably the last time I'll do this for a bit.

We are not role claiming.

On July 07 2010 12:39 YellowInk wrote:
You're not going to get killed in the night 100% because the red knows we're going to lynch you for being red anyway. Besides, mafia rarely kill their own and certainly not in a 2vLots circumstance.

On July 07 2010 13:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The biggest issue with youngminii's claim is purely that its a mafia ploy to keep town away from hitting the real GF.

Citizen has pretty clearly scum based off his lie. The situation is pretty clear
Youngminii is one of the following

A) legit and checked citizen, he flipped gf
B) mafia scum and is trying to build credibility by sacrificing a comrade
C) GF and sacrificing a goon to build credibility

There is nothing else to it. Option A) is insanely likely, with a small chance of B or C. Also, double lynch at this point is only reasonable if we all agree on likely red targets. However, if citizen is indeed the GF, then the double lynches aren't needed.

Off citizen, then lynch whoever is the most likely to be red tommorrow, then repeat.

On July 07 2010 13:27 Divinek wrote:


he didnt make me do anything, i had to do it cause i was gonna die without being able to use my ability

god you're bad at everything

On July 07 2010 08:19 Bill Murray wrote:
to reiterate: there are likely only around 9 townies and 4 scum
there will be 7 townies and 5 scum tomorrow
it is lynch or lose
if we do not get information, WE ARE NOT LYNCHING DIVINEK. HE IS A PAWN. WE ARE LYNCHING YELLOWINK.

On July 07 2010 13:31 zeks wrote:
^ wtf when did I even talk about Abenson quote me on it

Why are we unvoting double lynch everyone vote double lynch please kthx

On July 07 2010 13:40 youngminii wrote:
Well citi.zen's gonna be lynched so there's no point jailing him. You should jail me as I'm DT, duhh

On July 07 2010 13:42 zeks wrote:
i trust youngminii and lynch on citi.zen

its a 100% flip wtf if he lies we use a double lynch on him but i dont see why he'd lie

if youngminii is a recruit why would he stick his boss out thats retarded

there is no rationale of leaving a GF alive

then we'll double lynch both YI and BM and we'll have peace

On July 07 2010 13:48 DarthThienAn wrote:


[b]Yes.[b]