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On April 21 2010 15:14 Caller wrote:Someone that wants to stop a "no sense" bandwagon, even though it's fairly obvious that he firstly joined one (RoL Day 1) and suspects Ace heavily, yet failed to mention the primary hilarious part, which was quite frankly that I was the one that asked for my own rolecheck. No mafia player ever would do something as risky as that. Why would I go out of my way to do that when I could have instead picked RaGe or meeple, people that were high on my suspect list? It's because it was patently obvious to me that Ace was going the "fuck y'all i'm a boss" strategy. It's an admirable strategy but clearly I either didn't anticipate I was miller or that Ace would be willing to go to such extremes  In other words, ITW is playing too intelligently for someone who's a newbie to TL mafia. Either he is a super mafia genius that will sweep town to victory, or he's scum. Idk about you guys, but this sounds like terrible wifom to me. It seems pretty clear to me from Ace's tone that he:
A) Can't give a shit about this game anymore and wants to get killed off, and thus is faking DT hoping to get hit
B) Is a vet and thus claims DT so he'll soak a hit "for the sake of the greater good"
C) Is a legit DT
D) Is mafia playing a risky strategy
Of course there may be other scenarios where Ace is playing major mental mind trix on everyone, but these 4 seem most likely to me. Therefore, asking for your own role check does not seem so risky if you're mafia, considering the sense of impatience and disdain in Ace's posts, the chances that he is bluffing may be pretty high.
The problem though is that if caller flips town-aligned, it doesn't give us a lot of info about Ace.
Caller = red: yay we'll know Ace is legit
Caller = green/blue: could be scenario A where Ace is goofing around and hoping to take Caller down with him, or could be scenario D...
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LOL oops ignore my post. I was sneakily catching up on the mafia thread / typing up that post while in class, and did not see that the day post went up...
but yay now we know that scenario C is whats up.
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Belgium9949 Posts
lol, does this mean Caller's posts were actually serious? haha
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On April 21 2010 23:52 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
So we lynch Caller, what happens next?
Say double lynch is in effect.
1. Caller is red. Lynch who and who?
2. Caller is green/blue. Lynch Ace and who?
3. Caller is an assassin. Do we lynch Ace in case he's also an assassin and we don't want him to "win"? But then we still need a 2nd target.
What are some possible people to lynch during the double?
- I personally don't think BC is red. I hope we don't have to lynch him just to clear up RoL's claim
- motbob isn't helping and freely admits it.
- Caller's list: ITW, Meeple, Motbob, BC
no matter what color caller flips, these are important people to look at. I guess if worse comes to worse we can just use 1 of the 2 lynches on an inactive if there aren't any convincing targets. But personally i'd rather hope we see the inactive(s) modkilled.
Looks like we forgot the chance that Caller could be miller. XD Well this does look good for Ace and his "I'm a detective" thing. Although I'm still kind of not sure on who we should vote for if we go for that double lynch on Day (Although RoL and BC seems to be big targets at this moment.)
On April 22 2010 04:27 Korynne wrote:
Ouch, this makes things more complicated. So Ace was WRONG in that he incorrectly deduced that Caller was mafia. But I guess there isn't much to do about the fact that he "role-checked" Caller and Caller turned up mafia...
So either Ace just failed at deducing if Caller was mafia, and he's innocent.
Or Ace is mafia, in that case, it would be extremely risky to claim Caller as mafia. As mafia, Ace would know that Caller was not mafia, so claiming he's mafia is pretty much death if he turned out townie. There would be a very low probability of him turning up Miller.
So for now, I think Ace is telling the truth, but a bit sketchy with analysis (possibly just because Caller's acting funny, which seems counterproductive from his role as a townie?).
I don't think that Ace failed at deducing if Caller was mafia. I think the combined products of the role-check and Caller's suspicious way of posting and playing style made it concrete for Ace to say that Caller was definitely mafia.
I think the double lynch will definitely depend on what happens with the mafia kills. Personally, I don' t think that Ace could die tonight, due to that fact that he hasn't gotten any mafia members killed. The only reason (that I can see) for Ace to get killed is if RoL or BC is mafia. Even then, if the majority of the town agrees with this lynch, killing Ace won't do anything at all to save their member.
Right now, the suspicions of Ace being mafia for me are very low. It would have been a very ballsy move by Ace to do something like what he did (If he was mafia) and the chances that Caller would flip Miller are very low. So I really believe that Ace is a legit DT at this point.
Now what would be even more surprising is if RoL and BC are both killed during the night. Although I don't think mafia is stupid enough to kill off the two people we are accusing if they are both townies. This goes along with what Korynne said, the mafia would rather have the townies kill each other rather than have the spotlight shine on them.
Well I'm going to go with the double lynch at this moment, because we could possibly end up choosing not to use it if the situation calls for it. We still have 2 more left if we don't use it, and I think the majority, or rather, some members of the town will be smart enough if we don't need to use it on Day 3.
I have to go to work, so I'll be back in around 6 hours. When I get back, I'm going to read over what RoL and BC have been saying and I'll hopefully put up a post before I go to sleep.
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Poor, poor Caller... nah, Miller's kind of a dumb role anyway. Plus, he kinda brought it on himself.
SO. I'm still not ENTIRELY convinced Ace is a Legit DT, for the still-inexplicable reason that he's alive (again, he could die tonight, so that's a possibility). Unless the Mafia is not killing him on purpose because that makes him look suspicious as hell... God, I don't know, but being "right" on a prediction once (yeah, he was correct, Miller shows up to nightchecks as Mafia) isn't enough for me. Still, I'm not gonna lynch him tomorrow, partially because I can't even convince myself that Ace is suspicious, but also because the more I read tree.hugger's post, the more it makes sense to me.
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On April 22 2010 00:21 Ace wrote:
You can rule out me being an Assassin as I've already illustrated how ridiculous that would be.
@Everyone else: Look at BC's recent post. He said this is the same thing as the Folca situation in Mafia 3. Once again blatant Mafia misinformation because he doesn't know how to read.
In Mafia 3 DTs had bs Day checks ala it was possible to get results within the Day. That didn't happen this game. Notice where as Folca sent out a blind Role Check Day 1, I TOLD you guys Caller was scum before my Role Check.
Too ez.
I'm drunk on WIFOM
scummy argument
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On April 22 2010 04:18 Caller wrote:
BC REMEMBER WHAT I TOLD YOU
On April 22 2010 04:21 Ace wrote:
Hey you're dead Scum. Keep it quiet.
lol.
I figured Ace was telling the truth with how bored he was feeling earlier
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I agree with Korynne. Tree.Hugger's logic is suspect and looks like a distraction. Why would any mafia call Ace a liar when he didn't target one of their own?
Even WIFOM doesn't really work here.
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Also Bill Murray, why have you abandoned your plan from day 1 that I never quite understood?
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On April 22 2010 05:52 Scamp wrote:
I agree with Korynne. Tree.Hugger's logic is suspect and looks like a distraction. Why would any mafia call Ace a liar when he didn't target one of their own?
Even WIFOM doesn't really work here.
Pretty much. I mean I gave everyone the chance to go for a role check, and Caller bit. The fact that caller played like Scum just means the real Scum let him do as he pleases ^_^.
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On April 22 2010 05:52 Scamp wrote:
I agree with Korynne. Tree.Hugger's logic is suspect and looks like a distraction. Why would any mafia call Ace a liar when he didn't target one of their own?
Even WIFOM doesn't really work here.
Gotta agree with this, the big debate only really rested between Ace, Caller, BC, and Rol and i had a couple posts in it. Given the number of people just sitting back and voting i'd wager the mafia just took this as a freebie.
Keep in mind caller's suspect list: BC, meeple, motbob, ITW.
here's his last big post for reference
+ Show Spoiler +On April 21 2010 15:14 Caller wrote:This entire thread is lols. I'm not even going to bother trying to defend myself here because it's patently obvious that I'm getting bandwagoned and nobody's listening to me. Here's what you do need to know once you find out that I'm a townie. A) Ace still has not accepted my bet with him to have nai.protoss lynched to determine my and possibly his affiliation. More importantly, nai.protoss has jumped out of nowhere to proceed to attack me, because Show nested quote +I would just like to point out that since Caller is now proven to be mafia and he tried to take me out near the start when he was under risk of being lynched, I am clearly not mafia. Although I am also proving your point that I only post to defend myself and I am semi-inactive. But until I find time to sift through all these posts and come up with a good arguement for why somone is mafia I don't have anything to post. I think it should be fairly obvious that with an idiotic comment like that, once I flip town it should be apparent that nai.protoss is just a stupid townie. No mafia member would ever say something like that EVER. In fact, mafia would be sure to leave a "assuming Ace isn't bullshitting" remark. Someone like... Show nested quote +Rolechecked red, and has been making some pretty loose intuition-based attacks on ppl. No strong solid evidence here, so nothing of redeeming value. I guess the rolecheck does it for me. The only reason I could see for Ace lying like that was if he was mafia. I don't think he's that "L"ish to sabotage his own team, so he's probably telling the truth if town. Since its not exactly the best time to sac a mafia member (a mafia death would mean a KP drop), its highly unlikely that Ace really is mafia in this situation imo. I'll let you figure out who that is. But is Ace a DT? Quite likely. Did he check me? Quite likely. Is he playing rationally? No. It should be fairly obvious that he's trying to spite town here. Look at his attitude change. While it is true that I grossly misrepresented several random pieces of mafiascum terminology, it should also be apparent that the people I attacked were already suspect. RaGe has gone silent since Ace arrived with his high and mighty RC (the one that I personally asked for, twice, I might add). B) I'm not the only one playing for the metagame here. I hope that when I die you look back on my posts that you notice that I was imitating a very certain someone who isn't in this game C) IntotheWow is appearing to know too much. Look at this post. Show nested quote +First, he gave BloodyC0bbler the most bidding power, even thought he has hardly participated so far. Point? Please don't say it's random.
Then he says he gave Caller the most bidding power to make him fall for his trap. Makes sense with meeple riding 120$ and BC as well, but then again there's other suspicious people Foolishness no money? Did you know he was going to die?
You could be an Assassin and then this game would make zero sense at all, since all it's doing is keeping you in the spotlish, either to be lynched or in Mafia eyes to take you down if they feel you are a threat.
If you were a real detective, I don't think this helps too much, you are just instantly rallying people into what you want to do.
You could very well make up whatever answer it fits you best as mafia. If somebody rolechecks anyone, you can make up whatever is the general idea of that person's role. Then again, with one detective down, it's hard to really know what you are up to. If somebody asks for a self-role check (like Jugan did) you can make up whatever you like, Townie would have a high % of nailing it. If you feel your plan might fall that way, you can just kill him during the night before revealing the role check and hence, knowing what the person's role was.
I'm not sure why you are trying to pull this little game, it doesn't help the town at all in my opinion. At the same time I haven't played other Mafia games here, so I don't know if this is your general playstyle, or something you have done before.
I will post more on other people soon, just want to stop some bandwagon that makes no sense. I suspect of Ace as much as I suspect of Caller. Someone that wants to stop a "no sense" bandwagon, even though it's fairly obvious that he firstly joined one (RoL Day 1) and suspects Ace heavily, yet failed to mention the primary hilarious part, which was quite frankly that I was the one that asked for my own rolecheck. No mafia player ever would do something as risky as that. Why would I go out of my way to do that when I could have instead picked RaGe or meeple, people that were high on my suspect list? It's because it was patently obvious to me that Ace was going the "fuck y'all i'm a boss" strategy. It's an admirable strategy but clearly I either didn't anticipate I was miller or that Ace would be willing to go to such extremes In other words, ITW is playing too intelligently for someone who's a newbie to TL mafia. Either he is a super mafia genius that will sweep town to victory, or he's scum. D) BC is a liar. You were pissed at me in Ace's Mafia World because I had pardoned you (and guaranteed your death by mafia the next day) and as a result you were unable to tell us the 6 or so mafia that you pinned by Day 2. Don't give me that "I'm bad at behavior" bullshit. This man is scum. E) I'm terrible at this game. Don't ever listen to my advice. Seriously. This game is meant to show you how bad I am at this game. Veteran =/= good. By the same token, since I played just like a certain "veteran" player, you should get the implication. Summary: -Once I flip town, you know this means: -Ace is innocent. Nai.Protoss is innocent. -ITW and BC are scum. Meeple is also highly likely scum. Motbob is also likely scum because of his complete uselessness and this: -I'm bad zizi-yo
But given the logic posted by Korynne, it wouldn't make sense for BC to be red since he was Aces strongest opponent. I'm more wary of RoL given the circumstances of his roleclaim - right after Ace, and right after I pointed out that he hadn't really contributed anything to the town since he get back, despite saying he would.
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On April 22 2010 05:52 Scamp wrote:
Also Bill Murray, why have you abandoned your plan from day 1 that I never quite understood?
I wouldn't have abandoned it if people would go with it. People generally had the misconception that I wanted like 19 people to try to kill like 19 people. That wasn't the case. I wanted to isolate 2 people every day cycle, as I feel the pressure would lead to us catching scum.
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On April 22 2010 04:46 KF91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 23:52 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
So we lynch Caller, what happens next?
Say double lynch is in effect.
1. Caller is red. Lynch who and who?
2. Caller is green/blue. Lynch Ace and who?
3. Caller is an assassin. Do we lynch Ace in case he's also an assassin and we don't want him to "win"? But then we still need a 2nd target.
What are some possible people to lynch during the double?
- I personally don't think BC is red. I hope we don't have to lynch him just to clear up RoL's claim
- motbob isn't helping and freely admits it.
- Caller's list: ITW, Meeple, Motbob, BC
no matter what color caller flips, these are important people to look at. I guess if worse comes to worse we can just use 1 of the 2 lynches on an inactive if there aren't any convincing targets. But personally i'd rather hope we see the inactive(s) modkilled. Looks like we forgot the chance that Caller could be miller. XD Well this does look good for Ace and his "I'm a detective" thing. Although I'm still kind of not sure on who we should vote for if we go for that double lynch on Day (Although RoL and BC seems to be big targets at this moment.) Show nested quote +On April 22 2010 04:27 Korynne wrote:
Ouch, this makes things more complicated. So Ace was WRONG in that he incorrectly deduced that Caller was mafia. But I guess there isn't much to do about the fact that he "role-checked" Caller and Caller turned up mafia...
So either Ace just failed at deducing if Caller was mafia, and he's innocent.
Or Ace is mafia, in that case, it would be extremely risky to claim Caller as mafia. As mafia, Ace would know that Caller was not mafia, so claiming he's mafia is pretty much death if he turned out townie. There would be a very low probability of him turning up Miller.
So for now, I think Ace is telling the truth, but a bit sketchy with analysis (possibly just because Caller's acting funny, which seems counterproductive from his role as a townie?). I don't think that Ace failed at deducing if Caller was mafia. I think the combined products of the role-check and Caller's suspicious way of posting and playing style made it concrete for Ace to say that Caller was definitely mafia. I think the double lynch will definitely depend on what happens with the mafia kills. Personally, I don' t think that Ace could die tonight, due to that fact that he hasn't gotten any mafia members killed. The only reason (that I can see) for Ace to get killed is if RoL or BC is mafia. Even then, if the majority of the town agrees with this lynch, killing Ace won't do anything at all to save their member. Right now, the suspicions of Ace being mafia for me are very low. It would have been a very ballsy move by Ace to do something like what he did (If he was mafia) and the chances that Caller would flip Miller are very low. So I really believe that Ace is a legit DT at this point. Now what would be even more surprising is if RoL and BC are both killed during the night. Although I don't think mafia is stupid enough to kill off the two people we are accusing if they are both townies. This goes along with what Korynne said, the mafia would rather have the townies kill each other rather than have the spotlight shine on them. Well I'm going to go with the double lynch at this moment, because we could possibly end up choosing not to use it if the situation calls for it. We still have 2 more left if we don't use it, and I think the majority, or rather, some members of the town will be smart enough if we don't need to use it on Day 3. I have to go to work, so I'll be back in around 6 hours. When I get back, I'm going to read over what RoL and BC have been saying and I'll hopefully put up a post before I go to sleep.
Just because Ace rolechecked him, and he acted like a DT, I'd like to remind you of WHY he's NOT a confirmed DT.
He can say "well I wouldn't do that as an assassin" but his only possible argument of not being an assassin is literally a scummy argument.
there are 3 options:
a) Ace is a detective. This is great for us, as the best player is on our side.
b) Ace is an assassin. This isn't terrible for us, as the best player is for himself (we can ignore him)
Remember, assassins get rolechecks. I find this likely, as he has already defended one accusation of this. I'm not saying "lets lynch ace, he's an assassin!", all I'm saying is remember he could be.
c) Ace is a good guesser. I don't see this being the case, regardless. He wouldn't do this.
Do I personally think he's a DT? Yes.
Do I think he could be an assassin? Yes.
Either way, we have reds to hunt.
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what i'm saying is it's irrelevant which one he is as he can't be red unless it's unlikely option c
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On April 22 2010 06:25 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2010 04:46 KF91 wrote:On April 21 2010 23:52 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
So we lynch Caller, what happens next?
Say double lynch is in effect.
1. Caller is red. Lynch who and who?
2. Caller is green/blue. Lynch Ace and who?
3. Caller is an assassin. Do we lynch Ace in case he's also an assassin and we don't want him to "win"? But then we still need a 2nd target.
What are some possible people to lynch during the double?
- I personally don't think BC is red. I hope we don't have to lynch him just to clear up RoL's claim
- motbob isn't helping and freely admits it.
- Caller's list: ITW, Meeple, Motbob, BC
no matter what color caller flips, these are important people to look at. I guess if worse comes to worse we can just use 1 of the 2 lynches on an inactive if there aren't any convincing targets. But personally i'd rather hope we see the inactive(s) modkilled. Looks like we forgot the chance that Caller could be miller. XD Well this does look good for Ace and his "I'm a detective" thing. Although I'm still kind of not sure on who we should vote for if we go for that double lynch on Day (Although RoL and BC seems to be big targets at this moment.) On April 22 2010 04:27 Korynne wrote:
Ouch, this makes things more complicated. So Ace was WRONG in that he incorrectly deduced that Caller was mafia. But I guess there isn't much to do about the fact that he "role-checked" Caller and Caller turned up mafia...
So either Ace just failed at deducing if Caller was mafia, and he's innocent.
Or Ace is mafia, in that case, it would be extremely risky to claim Caller as mafia. As mafia, Ace would know that Caller was not mafia, so claiming he's mafia is pretty much death if he turned out townie. There would be a very low probability of him turning up Miller.
So for now, I think Ace is telling the truth, but a bit sketchy with analysis (possibly just because Caller's acting funny, which seems counterproductive from his role as a townie?). I don't think that Ace failed at deducing if Caller was mafia. I think the combined products of the role-check and Caller's suspicious way of posting and playing style made it concrete for Ace to say that Caller was definitely mafia. I think the double lynch will definitely depend on what happens with the mafia kills. Personally, I don' t think that Ace could die tonight, due to that fact that he hasn't gotten any mafia members killed. The only reason (that I can see) for Ace to get killed is if RoL or BC is mafia. Even then, if the majority of the town agrees with this lynch, killing Ace won't do anything at all to save their member. Right now, the suspicions of Ace being mafia for me are very low. It would have been a very ballsy move by Ace to do something like what he did (If he was mafia) and the chances that Caller would flip Miller are very low. So I really believe that Ace is a legit DT at this point. Now what would be even more surprising is if RoL and BC are both killed during the night. Although I don't think mafia is stupid enough to kill off the two people we are accusing if they are both townies. This goes along with what Korynne said, the mafia would rather have the townies kill each other rather than have the spotlight shine on them. Well I'm going to go with the double lynch at this moment, because we could possibly end up choosing not to use it if the situation calls for it. We still have 2 more left if we don't use it, and I think the majority, or rather, some members of the town will be smart enough if we don't need to use it on Day 3. I have to go to work, so I'll be back in around 6 hours. When I get back, I'm going to read over what RoL and BC have been saying and I'll hopefully put up a post before I go to sleep. Just because Ace rolechecked him, and he acted like a DT, I'd like to remind you of WHY he's NOT a confirmed DT. He can say "well I wouldn't do that as an assassin" but his only possible argument of not being an assassin is literally a scummy argument. there are 3 options:a) Ace is a detective. This is great for us, as the best player is on our side. b) Ace is an assassin. This isn't terrible for us, as the best player is for himself (we can ignore him) Remember, assassins get rolechecks. I find this likely, as he has already defended one accusation of this. I'm not saying "lets lynch ace, he's an assassin!", all I'm saying is remember he could be. c) Ace is a good guesser. I don't see this being the case, regardless. He wouldn't do this. Do I personally think he's a DT? Yes. Do I think he could be an assassin? Yes. Either way, we have reds to hunt.
What, were you in a coma during Day 1? Ace said during the day he was sure Caller was red, why would an Assassin rolecheck somebody he thought was red when his goal is to find the other assassins? Ace is pretty much confirmed DT. At least you're trying to think though, B- for effort.
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I think it is safe to say that Ace is actually a Detective
Telling us that Caller is mafia is one thing, but having him flip miller is another.
Think of the chances, I think we can safely say that he is a DT
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well if he was an assassin he wouldnt hit a red he would give them up to the town
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it's not safe to assume anything but your own role
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On April 22 2010 06:40 Bill Murray wrote:
well if he was an assassin he wouldnt hit a red he would give them up to the town
my point is that the assassin is not going to waste 1 of his 2 rolechecks on someone he thinks is a red. by your own admission you do not think Ace bluffed a rolecheck, so where does that leave us?
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On April 22 2010 06:40 Bill Murray wrote:
well if he was an assassin he wouldnt hit a red he would give them up to the town
Why?
He doesn't really care. In fact, he wants the game to last longer, and therefore he wouldn't want to give out mafia's names.
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EPT
