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On April 01 2010 03:11 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 02:09 XeliN wrote:
Also Elemenope had a lot to say at a quite early stage and yet now the only post I have seen him make is a comparatively short "are you kidding Vote Xelin" one. A mafia who has succesfully created the illusion of being both active and pro-town who now feels comfortable lurking in the shadows to respond sparingly? To be fair, voting for you right now does not need much explanation at all.
True, which means mafia can feel happy slapping votes on me knowing they can simply justify it simply in one word "idiot" or more if they choose, from my perspective of knowing I am pro-town this means it's likely that there are mafia among the people voting for me. This logic is only consistent if you share my belief that I am, at least in terms of PM'd role, a Pro-Town player.
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Actually I really ought to mention you as well as a possible mafia taget Fishball as you have actually posted very little of valuable content and been somewhat in the backround this game, kinda overlooked you simply as you supported my reasoning in considering Zona mafia to a certain extent and this is a mistake on my part. Also it would be consistent with the way you have acted in previous games where you have been mafia in not successfully not bringing attention to yourself.
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- the "not" before successfully
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Ok, now that I've had some time to think a bit more..
@Infundi, among others
Here's why I believe there is a 3rd party in this game.
Let's consider the obvious one: two kills. I'm going to roll with the assumption that Ace meant mafia can kill *only* one player per night, so we have a vigi or SK situation here. Usually, at least in previous TL games, vigi's cannot hit night1. Of course this isn't exactly like previous TL games, but it is something to consider.. Plus, I disagree that Ace did not mention 3rd parties; actually he specifically laid out "if there exist third parties, they will have their own win conditions". Sure the "all countries are divided into 2 sides" kind of contradicts that, but Ace couldn't very well write much else, could he? "into 2 sides, or possibly more" is a little silly, imo.
The other thing to consider is that (going by haster's reasoning that meeple was mafia's and amber was not) if amber were a vigi's target, it would have to be a pretty bad vigi. Of all people, amber's not exactly pro-town sure, but he doesn't stand out as much as say, iaaan (mr. i-want-everyone-dead).
Now, let's take a look at the lists I have proposed earlier
+ Show Spoiler [lists] +
My final lists:
tier1 suspects:
iaaan
verse
tier2 suspects:
nikon
xelin
d3
fishball
inactives/possible lurking mafia:
caller
infundi
nemy
likely townies:
zona
haster27
abenson
opz
elemenope
undecided:
amber
meeple
We can see that my entire undecided list is gone, which I guess makes things easier for me in terms of classifying players. personally, my take is that among my tier1-2, there probably is 2-3 mafia, and the others are hiding in the inactives list (as many have pointed out caller and nemy are prime suspects from that list).
I don't buy the arguments that zona is mafia, sorry. Main reason? They're not arguments!! They're "feelings" "hunches", in other words things-to-ignore. Make a decent argument, please (although I guess having the nuke flying renders that request a little moot)
Now, I just f5'd the thread..
Xelin, I'm really interested in the reasonings behind your suspicions. On my end, I've gone through all of their posts and analyzed them in context of the knowledge we had at the time, summarized them and laid out my conclusions. The conclusions I came to is the top 3 players you suspect are in fact "likely townies" on my list.
Care to lay out your reasons, so that we may debate this (as I feel this is a very important issue, especially given the triggerhappy fingers we have here *cough*)?
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Zona: I cannot elaborate on beyond saying it is based on something I cannot bring up in argument, it is more of a gut feeling on my part based on a response to something I posted and I could easily be wrong in this, it is not due to the way he has posted in the thread although one thing I would bring up is that he was hugely influential in trying to bring about a situation where the town would not nuke without consent. Pro-Town you might assume but as this was his main focus in all of those posts he wrote and you have to remember that the mafia will be keen to avoid a draw due to ToD being reached and is something he can constantly bring up and argue about whilst maintaining an "pro-town" persona.
Haster: At a point in the game where I was arguing (in my mind well) that I was not mafia he came out and argued strongly that I might have a individual role and win conditions, this was a clever little ruse as it enabled him//the mafia to make my actions and more importantly accusations seem suspicious and not pro-town without having to try and paint me as red (something which would have been difficuly)
Elemenope, I have outlined the reasons for him already over the thread, add his recent inactivity and jump vote on me to those and I can leave it at that.
Versatile, something seems off about her posting and she has been very hmm well ill use the word argumentative but thats for lack of a better term. This can easily draw focus away from any serious discussion and keep a nice state of discord amongst the town but I don't want to emphasise this at it might simply be her way of posting. Also she mentioned AIDS infested anus twice in this game, this is deeply suspicious...
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I have totally forgotten about d3 as well.. put him in the list of people I would consider potential mafia due to inactivity.
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The people in my mind who are clear townie are you, based mostly on your revelation you'd been blocked//nuke stolen, Infund, Nikon, Abenson and OpZ.
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On April 01 2010 03:57 XeliN wrote:
The people in my mind who are clear townie are you, based mostly on your revelation you'd been blocked//nuke stolen, Infund, Nikon, Abenson and OpZ.
Don't put my name in your mafia infested anus.
Matter of fact don't put Abenson there either.
I say we lynch you, and if you flip red, we lynch infun...I'll gladly go next to prove I'm a mason. And I ain't L...Got too much school shit than to be on here all day like i've been.
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ok, fair enough. I hope you can see how I disagree with your reasonings on zona, as you yourself have admitted they're little more than a hunch. I do find it odd that you suspect him for basically arguing for no nuking but don't point a finger at me, as I was (and still am) probably the biggest proponent of "say no to nukes" due primarily to tod. in fact I was the one that suggested changing the revenge-nuke into revenge-lynch plan. I guess i didn't set off your hunch detector, which is the entire point of my counter-argument .. me and zona should be equally suspicious on your radar according to your reason, and yet only one of us you bring up.
re:haster, was this recent? I dont recall him vs you, although i do know you were on his suspect list along with verse and tree.hugger.. i will dig up the posts
re: lmnop, his inactivity is interesting, yes. definitely raised a flag in my mind. i would wait and see how this trend continues, although as fishball said, his vote on you isn't really a surprise given your nuke
re:verse i guess this is the only one we agree on, so not much to say there.
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one more thing i'd like to bring up for you xelin.. you seem fairly convinced of nikon being townie (and in fact seem to share his views as you've both nuked zona), i'm just wondering why this is?
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On April 01 2010 04:01 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 03:57 XeliN wrote:
The people in my mind who are clear townie are you, based mostly on your revelation you'd been blocked//nuke stolen, Infund, Nikon, Abenson and OpZ. Don't put my name in your mafia infested anus. Matter of fact don't put Abenson there either. I say we lynch you, and if you flip red, we lynch infun...I'll gladly go next to prove I'm a mason. And I ain't L...Got too much school shit than to be on here all day like i've been.
Every post you make is like watching a toddler being given a calculator and being told to solve an equation + Show Spoiler + the toddler then proceeds to lick the screen, cry and throw a tantrum
Basically glass houses bro, stones are risky business.
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Hmm, I guess on Nikon for the simple reason that nothing he has done or posted has been in my mind something that the mafia would be likely to do. I'm gonna have to go searching through this thread to elaborate or possibly change my mind.
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WTF
Someone saved Zona and know you want to nuke him?
Explain please
##Vote: XeliN
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For Town: Go over the thread SERIOUSLY. I am currently at page 48. Iaaan is almost certainly mafia, in every one of his posts so far he has advocated lynching, nuking, letting die or pointed suspicion at people who turned out to be townie. Haster27 similarly frequently argued against people who flipped Green//Blue, Zona went to extraordinary lengths to try to get RoL lynched early on in the game, he flipped green I'd forgotten how hard he tried to get this going.
I am still certain Nikon is townie and stand by what I said that nothing he has posted (up to page 48) is something I would expect mafia to do.
I don't really know why I am bothering at this point, I'm going to be lynched and with both the inactives and the certain amazing town player of Abenson and OpZ (in the 1% chance that they flip Red then I will concede they played well, actually I won't concede OpZ did, telling someone to rot in hell is maliciously insulting and the fact I have been warned for something that didn't even break any single rule yet he can write things like this without so much as a warning is seriously annoying + Show Spoiler + It got to me more than I would care to admit but in my eyes he is a massive cunt for doing so and I'm not even religious
I'm gonna leave it there, Go over the thread, try to win, or barring that just launch mass nukes and force a draw.
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Fake?
In case you've forgotten, the other guy that nuked Zona also claimed his nuke was fake
Why are you guys so intent on killing Zona?
I think it is extremely fishy that 2 people "fake nuke" Zona"
Explanation?
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On April 01 2010 05:06 XeliN wrote:
my nuke on zona is fake.
Highlighted for emphasis just in case someone missed it. Also, all the suspects I have advocated were all those who had went against the anti-nuke policy. Now if some Townies had not decided to play stupidly and nuke player which most of them turned out to be green, my strategy would have lynched Mafia pretty effectively.
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This is a classic example of WIFOM
Having several people try to "fake" nuke Zona might result in us thinking he is a town, but he may be in reality mafia and this is a ploy to gain us trust.
However, if Zona was mafia, he still needs people he can trust to "nuke" him
Situation A:
The mafia is REALLY intent on killing Zona for no apparent reason.
Situation B:
Zona has a role that is revealed only to mafia.... and they want him dead.
Situation C:
Zona is mafia trying to gain trust.
All 3 simple situations I can think of right now Says that you and the other guy who "nuked" him was mafia
Please, try to explain what you were thinking?
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Did it both on a whim and also to provoke responses to try to have more concrete ideas on peoples roles, didn't expect it to have the result where everyone jump lynches as I thought at this stage lynching people who actually show signs of mafia would be more important than following some rule of "lynch people who launch unagreed nukes"
Basically I expected the town to realise the position we are in means policy lynches, or even emotional lynches are not in their best interest, this has clearly failed.
Oh as I can ##Vote Iaaan
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On April 01 2010 05:11 haster27 wrote:Highlighted for emphasis just in case someone missed it. Also, all the suspects I have advocated were all those who had went against the anti-nuke policy. Now if some Townies had not decided to play stupidly and nuke player which most of them turned out to be green, my strategy would have lynched Mafia pretty effectively.
If you are townie your strategy was idiotic as the mafia are unlikely even to have any nukes, and if they do they are sparse.
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Can't edit so...
read like the following line is in the above post:
:O
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EPT
