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On March 18 2010 02:56 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:29 Incognito wrote:On March 18 2010 02:27 Versatile wrote:
someone wanna explain the push for the dbl lynch?
oh grand town leaders, with brains the size of peas....ermm, eggplants, uhhh, cantaloupes...yeah.... who are the two suspects you hope to lynch with a dbl lynch? hmmmmmm? Before answering this question, who are your top suspects? Don't you think that given that we get 2 DT checks tonight and have a bunch of fishy inactives we'll find someone to lynch? Did you run out of suspects to lynch now that you can't attack BC anymore? will you stop being an idiot for two seconds? listen. any decent player with half a mind would seriously question BC and how he's decided to play this game. you might not like my methods, but the intent is there. BC is an invincible DT and has played this whole thing scared. he's a freaking invincible DT! do you know what the means? he can take risks. he can act more freely. he could have sown this thing up so long ago it's ridiculous. he played vague, he was uncooperative, and he did not lead the town in the thread. i cannot believe you're surprised at how much i questioned him. a supposed DT mayor who has done nothing to prove it to the town out in public? gtfo. i don't trust all willy nilly. that's how you get screwed, and he didn't prove shyt in the thread. secondly, you're exceedingly narrow-minded for not understand why i have seriously questioned BC. you guys have played this entire thing behind the scenes. that's fine. that was your strategy. however, when you come in the thread and come at me because i'm not on the same page as you, please realize you're being ridiculous. it's like, the equation is (2+4) * (5+6) in the thread so here i am thinking the answer is 66, but there's another part of the equation in PMs that says divide by 2, and i'm supposed to know the real answer is 33? well, dumbass, i don't get where you're coming from because i don't have the all the information you do. so don't expect me to magically come to same conclusions as you. and no, i'm not going to sit back and just trust you know what you're doing because i'm not a sheep. and as a general comment, i don't know how many times this can be said: playing the game in PMs ruins it in so many ways. sure, it's useful in moderation. but seriously. take a look at this thread. this game has been incredibly slow. when information is shared with the town the game is more exciting and more fun for everyone involved. it also gives the mafia a fairer chance, especially in a game that is this much towny favored. it's not about the cool kids table. it's about making this enjoyable for everyone involved, and giving everyone the chance to get better at it. seriously, if you keep writing off some players as stupid or worthless, and don't bother to try to help them learn, the quality of these games will never improve. i've been here for three games and it's the same idiots being tricked by the same idiots and leading the town down the road to hell regardless of what anyone's role is in any given game. oh, and i guess i'll take this moment to sincerely apologize to anyone whose feelings i may have hurt. it's just a game. i attack people's posts and logic because that's what you do in this game. i don't care who's name is attached to the post, so don't take my jabs and jokes seriously, it's all in good fun. now i'm going to go back to trying to find a way out of this game that doesn't get me banned.
I'm not attacking you for attacking BC viciously. Yes, attacking BC was justified. I even doubted him at once. But you have ONLY attacked BC. You don't offer any alternatives. And I just asked you who your top suspects are, and you give...nothing. Don't expect me to just hand you free information.
Both Zona and I have stated plenty of times how the town can help. But all these same people keep doing the same things. Popping up just to defend themselves insufficiently, then disappear. Or not, in the case of Bill Murray. Its not our fault if people refuse to take the advice.
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On March 18 2010 09:36 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 09:25 L wrote:On March 18 2010 09:14 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 09:02 L wrote:On March 18 2010 08:26 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 06:44 L wrote:
There's no reason to protect incog at this point. There's no way to confirm him and his two bus shunts are used. He's the equivalent of a green, kinda. 100% of medic protection should be on BC unless we set up a driver. If I die, whatever, that speeds up our rape train a day.
Being frustrated isn't a reason to de-rail a town rape train. If you feel like you have nothing to do, go look at your number 1-3 suspects and go check how they act in prior games, then report your findings here.
Pretty sure Incog proved his two bus shunts in his post where he explained everything. At the very least he proved he used one. If he's mafia, why would he waste away using his drives all for the benefit of the town? If he's mafia, the only useful thing he can do now is vote (and possibly cause town chaos but that's very unlikely). BM, if nothing you say will convince the town that you're green than there's definitely nothing I can say that will convince them either  At the very least, we have a coordinated town with two DT checks coming up (assuming they don't die) and a mad hatter with hopefully smart bombs placed (and who's hopefully not a GF). Even if BM turns up green there shouldn't be a problem wrapping things up in subsequent days. Although I'm sure going to have a field day defending myself if BM turns up red. Why would he waste 2 shunts? To gain information regarding the medics, dts, and such. Who am I having protected tonight? Who am I bussing? If he is in contact with mafia they'll know and they can act accordingly. Once our medics are killed and our drivers are out of drivin' juice, both our DTs will die shortly thereafter. Once that happens, our circle stops growing and the 'clock' essentially stops. If we've checked a GF, we're in even more of a pinch. Either way, you aren't stupid. You knew this. It was explicitly stated by someone else earlier. Why would you advocate protecting incog over a fucking CONFIRMED DT if incog is essentially a town leaning green who can't be confirmed at this point? That's not to hate on him; he's played well and if he's town aligned high five to him. Its just that we have more important treasures to safeguard from red hands. Yes, I can see your concern with this. But if he's mafia, the mafia loses more than the town does. Okay, say Incog is mafia and has access to all this information. He doesn't have any drives anymore. Mafia has to waste hits to kill the medics BEFORE they can get the DTs. That's two (or one I guess in worst case scenario such as they stack hits) more checks to confirm innocents or find the mafia before the DTs actually die. Plus, who's to say that Incog knows the medics? I would assume BC does at this point, but he doesn't have to share that. If BC has the medic coordinated Incog's knowledge is next to useless. The only thing Incog can provide is another vote for mafia. And hey, there have been two confirmed switches so far. If Incog is mafia bus driver, we got another bus driver to utilize, who probably has at least one more switch. Not to mention you have bombs. There's probably a vigilante/veteran around. And you seem to have misunderstood, I did not say I advocate protecting incog over BC. No way. It's going to be the third night. If mafia have to stack hits on the third night that's a good sign for the town. Not to mention there's already a clear idea on who the mafia are based on inactivity/useless posting. Yeah that probably includes me to an extent. But there are also quite a few people who we can safely rule out as being mafia because of their activity (at least in my opinion). Even if it comes down to the fact that we don't have DTs, it's not going to be game over right away. It's only the third day: we have double lynches, we have targets, all the blues are alive minus the bodyguards, and one mafia is already dead. You make the situation seem really grim if Incog is mafia bus driver. It isn't. Sorry, but that's bullshit. 1) Mafia wouldn't know who the second DT is. 2) Mafia wouldn't know who the medics are. 3) Mafia wouldn't know who my bombs are on. Etc. Taking a single turn to net TWO MEDIC KILLS is not a small thing. Nor is following that up with TWO DT KILLS. the alternative is that mafia guess who the DT and medics are and channel a hit per night using the driver. 2 DTs dead with unknown medics vs a full list of blues + medics dead + DTs dead shortly thereafter. You're essentially saying that a single extra day is worth losing all our blues. WRONG.If Incog is pardoner, he might have moved for the double lynch to use the pardoner ability and stop both. I'm not saying we need to kill Incog; he's probably legit. He just isn't getting medic protection over DTs. Sorry. What the hell? Where did I say Incog should get medic protection? I said he shouldn't get medic protection and the DTs should. I just laid out a near worst possibly situation, in which the town still looks good to win. You just said that's all bullshit. GUESS WHAT? YOURE RIGHT! THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY POST! CONGRATS! YOUR EGO CAN NOW GLOAT AS YOU MASTURBATE TO HOW AWESOME YOU ARE! Even if Incog was the mafia bus driver, I highly doubt he knows who the mafia are, and I doubt any of the mafia are going to claim to him.
You highly doubt I know who the mafia are? Hmm...maybe that's because I'm on the wrong track. Maybe I should vote for you/nemY/tree.hugger/Iaaan. Now am I on the right track?
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On March 18 2010 11:09 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 11:07 johnnyspazz wrote:
well darn
so does the big 3 have anything to enlighten the townies?
are nemy, iaaan, tree.hugger all mafia? Haven't you been reading the thread? L, BC, and Incog have decided that killing the most obvious green in our town is the way to play the game. It doesn't matter if those guys are mafia, we need to kill innocents.
Then who are the mafia O Great One?
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From: Foolishness [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: bill murray
Date: 3/18/10 11:24
Look, I really think BM is obviously green and that killing him is a waste. If you can straight up tell me that lynching him is the right move for the town and that you will get more information out of lynching him than anyone else than I'll vote for him.
Informations. I am somewhat at a loss on what to say about this, as you have not yet voted. If you can straight up tell me that lynching (insert whoever you want to lynch here) is the right move for the town and that you will get more information of of lynching him than BM, then I'll vote for him.
Anyway, a few stabs in the dark for you:
By Lynching XeliN: If red, then BM could be red, but XeliN could have just been setting him up. If green, then we learn nothing.
By Lynching d3: Nothing. Uneless you can point out a connection here.
By Lynching l10f: Nothing. He's posted hardly anything.
By lynching nemY: Same as the above.
By lynching sidesprang: Same as above.
Unless I'm missing something here? I honestly don't see what we get by lynching the above candidates except for maybe XeliN. Even then, its only if Xelin flips red.
Bill has supporters. Foolishness/l10f/XeliN. If Bill flips red, you're under suspicion. If he flips green, I'd still be suspicious of Foolishness calling out a green so easily. When I think there are plenty more greens out there he should have found. XeliN and l10f I can probably let off the hook. So we get to the question, is Bill red. Maybe. At this point I'm leaning toward no. But hey, I'm not voting Bill am I?
From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: voting
Date: 3/18/10 11:34
I don't think BM would be acting like that if he was mafia. He sounds like an obvious townie to me also. I believe Tree.hugger is a good person to lynch, but I think it can wait till tomorrow's double lynch. I don't want to vote for someone who won't get lynched, that would be counterproductive, so I think I'll go with Foolishness or Xelin, both of which I think are more likely to be mafia than BM.
Funny how you both pm me. When its L who is orchestrating this lynch. Go bug him instead. Anyway, why do you both pm me defending Bill when you could and should be posting in the thread? Interesting...
Anyway, why don't you want to vote for someone who won't get lynched? Doesn't make sense to me at all. If we're all worried about that, we'd all vote the same way. Interesting though, cause I thought a mafia would rather vote for someone who's NOT going to die so they don't get scrutinized for voting a townie. Maybe you don't want to stick out on a list all by yourself? Don't want the mafia to target you for being right on?
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On March 19 2010 06:15 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 13:28 Incognito wrote:From: Foolishness [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: bill murray
Date: 3/18/10 11:24
Look, I really think BM is obviously green and that killing him is a waste. If you can straight up tell me that lynching him is the right move for the town and that you will get more information out of lynching him than anyone else than I'll vote for him. Informations. I am somewhat at a loss on what to say about this, as you have not yet voted. If you can straight up tell me that lynching (insert whoever you want to lynch here) is the right move for the town and that you will get more information of of lynching him than BM, then I'll vote for him. Anyway, a few stabs in the dark for you: By Lynching XeliN: If red, then BM could be red, but XeliN could have just been setting him up. If green, then we learn nothing. By Lynching d3: Nothing. Uneless you can point out a connection here. By Lynching l10f: Nothing. He's posted hardly anything. By lynching nemY: Same as the above. By lynching sidesprang: Same as above. Unless I'm missing something here? I honestly don't see what we get by lynching the above candidates except for maybe XeliN. Even then, its only if Xelin flips red. Bill has supporters. Foolishness/l10f/XeliN. If Bill flips red, you're under suspicion. If he flips green, I'd still be suspicious of Foolishness calling out a green so easily. When I think there are plenty more greens out there he should have found. XeliN and l10f I can probably let off the hook. So we get to the question, is Bill red. Maybe. At this point I'm leaning toward no. But hey, I'm not voting Bill am I? From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: voting
Date: 3/18/10 11:34
I don't think BM would be acting like that if he was mafia. He sounds like an obvious townie to me also. I believe Tree.hugger is a good person to lynch, but I think it can wait till tomorrow's double lynch. I don't want to vote for someone who won't get lynched, that would be counterproductive, so I think I'll go with Foolishness or Xelin, both of which I think are more likely to be mafia than BM. Funny how you both pm me. When its L who is orchestrating this lynch. Go bug him instead. Anyway, why do you both pm me defending Bill when you could and should be posting in the thread? Interesting... Anyway, why don't you want to vote for someone who won't get lynched? Doesn't make sense to me at all. If we're all worried about that, we'd all vote the same way. Interesting though, cause I thought a mafia would rather vote for someone who's NOT going to die so they don't get scrutinized for voting a townie. Maybe you don't want to stick out on a list all by yourself? Don't want the mafia to target you for being right on? Hey buddy, I voted ages ago. Try doing research before making a post, you're making showtime! look good. Right now you're the one organizing the town, you're the most sensible person right now since BC hardly posts. Why wouldn't I pm you? It's my personal goal to make sure I never PM Ace or L in a mafia game, and so far so good, I have no intention to change that. If you want a better reason, L is hardset on killing BM, and has been suspicious of him for day one (and it's not just a vendetta like people say). I don't think there's much I can say that can convince him. You're last paragraph is very wordy and confusing (if it's aimed at l10f and not me then whatever). "Why don't I want to vote for someone who won't get lynched?" What does that even mean? I'm voting for Xelin because I believe he's mafia. This isn't about getting scrutinized later, it's about trying to find mafia. How come the three leaders of this town cannot agree on anything? You even said BM's probably not red yet you voted for him asap and only changed after I started defending him. From my perspective it's like this: you guys are killing an obvious townie. I don't want to kill someone who I believe is a townie, especially when there's a group of inactive players (which is nearly everyone I've said I'm suspicious about). But hey, you're one of the leaders of this town, if you think we should be killing all the active players and letting the 6 or so inactive players just sit around the rest of the game, that's you're call. You accounted for L being the GF in one of our PMs and said we can kill him tomorrow in the double lynch. Might as well anyways yes? He is one of the most active players. Yeah Incognito, you're right. Killing active players is how the town can win this game. Inactives can't be mafia, and are probably all innocent. Mafia must be here arguing against you and spamming the thread. It's so obvious now.
Actually right now I'm not organizing the town. I guess BC/L decided to toss me out of the bus once I ran out of driving juice. Either way, yes the last paragraph was to l10f.
BM looks active. But he says pretty much nothing. So I consider him on the inactive list. Of course there is a group of inactive players. What do you think RCs and bombs are for? Either way, quit yelling at me. I'm not the one voting Bill.
If you feel like it, you can continue with the sarcasm, but it doesn't help your case. Nice job responding to my statements and giving us a wonderful candidate that will give us more information.
On March 19 2010 07:41 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 06:53 XeliN wrote:
Guess it looks like I'm going to be voting Bill, still not considering him as a viable Mafia candidate
Hey haven't you been reading the thread? Incog says we must lynch obvious greens, as it will give us the most information. Here I will summarize what Incog thinks: 1) We kill BM and he turns up red: In that case since I am defending him so hard I must be red also, therefore we kill me next day. 2) We kill BM and he turns up green: In that case, I was defending him because I knew he was green because I am mafia and he's not on my team. So either way, I'm going to die next day. But no matter! We must kill BM anyways! Can't you see how brilliant Incog is? No wonder he's a veteran player!
Nope I didn't say to lynch obvious greens.
Points 1 and 2 are moot. You're suspicious anyway regardless of Bills alignment. Nope I didn't say lynch BM anyways. Look who I'm voting.
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On March 19 2010 12:45 XeliN wrote:
Yes I had other options to vote for, but bills change to voting me at the last minute and trying to get a bandwagon starting on me annoyed me, specially as we had PM'd each other alot and he made it seem like he considered me green, so when he switched I voted for him. As for better people I could have voted for I agree (not that it would have made a difference) In fact I sepcifically listed 4 people who I considered, and still consider likely to be mafia. Foolishness, D3, 10F and Versatile.
It looks like our behind the scenes people are going to win this game for us anyway which is both good and bad, good because it sucks when the mafia wins but bad because it feels like I haven't been able to even be a part of this game. The elitism in mafia is kinda sickening, people like L being overly forceful of their opinions and BC//Incog and L as well just simply taking over things entirely. Obviously good strategy as from reading L's post seems an easy win is incoming, but as far as everyone acting together and enjoying the game//participating it sucks.
In future I am never voting for a veteran to go into office, this game has taught me that much.
Actually this game has taught me that bus drivers are hillariously awesome but completely imba. Regardless I still stand by the idea that you just don't announce your DT checks even if you're elected. Unless you're trying to force the mafia to hit the greens and not blues. But probably confirmed townies > forcing the mafia to choose certain hits. Because they could always wait a day to hit. Either way, probably next game will have to be regular. No plans, just straight up traditional mafia. Finding scum the way you normally do. No shooting order lists, no DT/BD plans. But this means everyone has to post.
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On March 21 2010 01:39 XeliN wrote:
Was clever swapping Bloody for someone Incog, I was under the impression that you had used your abilities already and we almost double hit him last night, I suggested either that or hitting L, Iaaan or Madnessman (After my semi fake post about being upset with bloody//incog for taking over he wrote "shit I feel bad now" which kinda said he was blue)
Boo I hoped you would have hit BC and killed yourselves !
On March 21 2010 07:27 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 12:57 Incognito wrote:
Regardless I still stand by the idea that you just don't announce your DT checks even if you're elected. WTF is this? Earlier in the game you post a DT list, which is pretty much declaring DT checks - and now you "stand by the idea" that you DON'T announce your DT checks? The game's over...but I still have to point this out. And don't get me wrong. I have nothing personal against you. In fact I think it's great that you host games and play in them. It's also my hope that you don't have any particular grudge against me for losing all interest in your second hosted game. However, it's just that your ideas were so all over the board (and poor) all game, and I need to point them out.
Like I said before, I posted this to try to confuse the mafia bus. That is all. I already knew BC was DT, and since I assumed there was only 1 DT, I figured we already controlled the DT check and all we had to do was make sure the mafia bus didn't mess with it. Which is why we had the list. I still stand by the medic list though. In perspective I thought it was reasonably decent. Nice of you to come out posting about the list though. Before then I wasn't sure of your alignment.
On March 21 2010 11:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 11:00 XeliN wrote:
Just out of interest what was your opinion on me later on in the game after i tried harder to come across as town? I still had you as red. I was originally checking you last night till L messaged me at like the last second to swap to opz.
Dang it if I were here I would have sent you my ~OpZ~ pms. He was innocent to me after he came out and started pming me.
On March 21 2010 13:38 johnnyspazz wrote:
incognito, do you think you will have an archive for every game you participate in?
I would like to, but it seems as if people miss out on updating so I have to go through the thread the old fashioned way anyway. It would be nice if there was a program that automatically compiled the posts but meh. With all the antagonism against it I probably won't do it anymore.
Anyway two more thoughts:
Even with BM's lynch and the BGs dead I still think town had an advantage. Especially since I bluffed with my second bus. Which btw brings me to the point that a two shot (town) bus driver actually can have 3 shots if used properly, while a two shot mafia bus driver only really does have two shots (mafia driver gains nothing by bluffing the swap, while town driver does: i.e. to confirm innocents. Actually, if I were thinking on day 1 instead of trying to get BC/L/me semi-confirmed we would have ended up with 3 confirmed innocents on day 1). Anyway, mafia couldn't really kill BC day 3 since I had a hidden bus left. It wouldn't matter if I died because then BC could explain everything. I'm kinda disappointed BC/L weren't more coordinated with stopping Fishball from swapping BC/tree.hugger, since I did that myself within minutes of the night post. Either way, we were prepared to carpet bomb the Abenson vote list on day 4, as L posted in thread. Given that we had 2 bombs + driver + a DL + 2 RCs, we could have eliminated that list in one day, netting us 3 mafia (GF included).
d3_crescentia <--Got the feeling he was green after he popped up and defended himself after I posted
Foolishness
XeliN
citi.zen <--Claimed blue (I also had him innocent early in the game, sad that L chose to bomb him )
tree.hugger
Bill Murray <-- Dead Day 3
nemY
I was also leaning toward d3 being innocent and apparently citi.zen claimed to BC, so that left us with a pretty narrow pool.
Also last point thanks flamewheel91 for hosting the game. I'm still curious though, did you get any advice on balance or check it with someone?
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