EPTTL Mafia Ban List - Page 55
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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kevconsim
United States317 Posts
If only you put this much effort into your mafia posts...how long have you been friends with Bill Murray by the way? Day 2 of mafia 37 the one that he got modkilled in. He has treated me with respect and i guess i dont read his writing as harsh or mean. Oh well he was nice to me so idk. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
Is what he is doing to be heavily frowned upon? Absolutely. Is he purposefully trying to do any of the crimes we've accused of him? I don't think anyone here would answer yes. I believe this is a matter of maturity and personality rather then what I think we are condemning BM for. I think he did a good job with his self control as gryffindor, and let it slip a little in a tense moment in the game still being played. He just needs to spend a little time reading what he posts before hand, and adding whatever else comes into his mind during that time. I don't think he felt he did anything wrong, which is a problem. I wouldn't say we would be banning him for his aggressive play, because I didn't find it all that insulting, if a bit provocative. He needs to understand, however, that his posting needs to be consolidated for everyone's convenience, so we can logically follow his perspective not only in mafia games, but also in conversations in other things, such as discussing a ban :X I would give Bill another chance. It still warrants an extended ban, but I would like to see his rebuttal here and what exactly is going through that noggin. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
I'm pretty mild generally but one would think it is not that hard to simply go through a game without causing problems, much less the enormous postmodkill issues displayed. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Like you can strike out the first time and get a ban, strike out again and get a longer ban, but then the third whiff you're gone. Of course that's been ameliorated and changed so that each ban becomes successively longer (in effect, nearing a "permanent" ban as times banned increases). Still, what all with "three strikes and you're out" and "leopards don't change their spots" and other jib-jab sayings... No. People can attempt to hide/change their personalities. However, when Mafia games get heated up they tend to bring out the worst in people. This isn't baseball; two outs should be quite sufficient... | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On March 10 2011 17:20 bumatlarge wrote: Well IMO, Bill is a peculiar case. Is what he is doing to be heavily frowned upon? Absolutely. Is he purposefully trying to do any of the crimes we've accused of him? I don't think anyone here would answer yes. I believe this is a matter of maturity and personality rather then what I think we are condemning BM for. I think he did a good job with his self control as gryffindor, and let it slip a little in a tense moment in the game still being played. He just needs to spend a little time reading what he posts before hand, and adding whatever else comes into his mind during that time. I don't think he felt he did anything wrong, which is a problem. I wouldn't say we would be banning him for his aggressive play, because I didn't find it all that insulting, if a bit provocative. He needs to understand, however, that his posting needs to be consolidated for everyone's convenience, so we can logically follow his perspective not only in mafia games, but also in conversations in other things, such as discussing a ban :X I would give Bill another chance. It still warrants an extended ban, but I would like to see his rebuttal here and what exactly is going through that noggin. That might be difficult. He no longer has an account with access to the mafia forum unless he has another smurf that I don't know about. I guess you could PM him and repost it here if you really want. Either way, I'm not really inclined to give him another chance because dealing with him is really tiring for me + it's a major time sink (I spent ~4 hours the other night writing up a PM to IntoTheWow and Harem so the staff would understand the background surrounding Bill Murray, and god knows how much time helping RoL and Meapak deal with him before they modkilled him). I would be okay with Incognito handling the situation instead of me however. So if anyone ever wants him back, talk to Incognito. On March 10 2011 19:31 flamewheel wrote: You know, I thought we used to have this policy on strikes. Like you can strike out the first time and get a ban, strike out again and get a longer ban, but then the third whiff you're gone. Of course that's been ameliorated and changed so that each ban becomes successively longer (in effect, nearing a "permanent" ban as times banned increases). Still, what all with "three strikes and you're out" and "leopards don't change their spots" and other jib-jab sayings... No. People can attempt to hide/change their personalities. However, when Mafia games get heated up they tend to bring out the worst in people. This isn't baseball; two outs should be quite sufficient... I don't know if we formally changed this actually. It just hasn't come up because nobody has been banned 3 times and still wanted to play other than BM. Though we will probably have to discuss it at some point if ohN continues to play the way he did in XXXVII but still wants to play. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 10 2011 19:31 flamewheel wrote: You know, I thought we used to have this policy on strikes. Like you can strike out the first time and get a ban, strike out again and get a longer ban, but then the third whiff you're gone. Of course that's been ameliorated and changed so that each ban becomes successively longer (in effect, nearing a "permanent" ban as times banned increases). Still, what all with "three strikes and you're out" and "leopards don't change their spots" and other jib-jab sayings... No. People can attempt to hide/change their personalities. However, when Mafia games get heated up they tend to bring out the worst in people. This isn't baseball; two outs should be quite sufficient... I don't completely agree with this. i think it would me more accurate to say it takes time for people to change. But I agree after a point usually people won't change much. But if you believe that people can't change then I would be still be perceived as an illiterate asshole by most/all of you. I like to think I am not the same person I was 4 years, and maybe 4 years from now Bill won't be either. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
I like to think I am not the same person I was 4 years, and maybe 4 years from now Bill won't be either I agree, I guess we should just put him back on the semi perm ban list and maybe in a few years and if he wants to come back again, we can see again. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On March 11 2011 01:17 chaoser wrote: I agree, I guess we should just put him back on the semi perm ban list and maybe in a few years and if he wants to come back again, we can see again. I'll third this. He was only banned for about 6 months before he came back and sometimes it takes a while for people to change. If in a year or two Bill wanted to come back then I'd be fine with that, given of course that he smurfs a game or two and proves he really has changed. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On March 10 2011 17:20 bumatlarge wrote: Well IMO, Bill is a peculiar case. Is what he is doing to be heavily frowned upon? Absolutely. Is he purposefully trying to do any of the crimes we've accused of him? I don't think anyone here would answer yes. I believe this is a matter of maturity and personality rather then what I think we are condemning BM for. I think he did a good job with his self control as gryffindor, and let it slip a little in a tense moment in the game still being played. He just needs to spend a little time reading what he posts before hand, and adding whatever else comes into his mind during that time. I don't think he felt he did anything wrong, which is a problem. I wouldn't say we would be banning him for his aggressive play, because I didn't find it all that insulting, if a bit provocative. He needs to understand, however, that his posting needs to be consolidated for everyone's convenience, so we can logically follow his perspective not only in mafia games, but also in conversations in other things, such as discussing a ban :X I would give Bill another chance. It still warrants an extended ban, but I would like to see his rebuttal here and what exactly is going through that noggin. It's not just a matter of style/bad play/spam. This is someone who repeatedly ruined games by breaking basic mafia rules. See Incognito's mafia XVI for example, where he posted after death the result of his check; he had just flipped DT, so it was a big deal and pretty much ended the game. How would you feel as a host and/or red player who put real effort in that game? You can say "ok, but he was new then" - as we all did at the time. Guess what: he did it again! He also threatened hosts to ruin other games if his demands were not met. He had more than three major strikes, plus minor violations in almost every game he played. What is going through his noggin' is irrelevant, at some point actions speak louder than words. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
Look at any mafia game he's been in. He posts a lot, but is reasonably respectful and focused on the game until the minute someone calls him out or votes him. Then, out comes that split personality that has been the bane of so many good games. I'm in favor of giving him a 12-18 month "cooling off" period, after which he can come back and try this again if he likes. People can change, for sure, but as we just found out, that change takes a while, and BM hasn't quite gotten there yet. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On March 11 2011 01:32 citi.zen wrote: It's not just a matter of style/bad play/spam. This is someone who repeatedly ruined games by breaking basic mafia rules. See Incognito's mafia XVI for example, where he posted after death the result of his check; he had just flipped DT, so it was a big deal and pretty much ended the game. How would you feel as a host and/or red player who put real effort in that game? You can say "ok, but he was new then" - as we all did at the time. Guess what: he did it again! He also threatened hosts to ruin other games if his demands were not met. He had more than three major strikes, plus minor violations in almost every game he played. What is going through his noggin' is irrelevant, at some point actions speak louder than words. He didn't do this as gryffindor, right? So that means we are making progress! He said hes not even mad! How about this. I will host a game in the future, and that will be Bill's last chance. If he successfully plays the game with respect towards everyone and makes a valiant effort to subdue his vices, we can make a more accurate judgement on him. If he persists in the aforementioned antics, then he gets the perma-ban. I plan on setting up the game in the near future and will wait on the queue list accordingly. It will be interesting game, I promise, and I'd like to see what people would make of it. I will handle the modding and if you don't want to play with Bill, you don't have to play! Bill is a nice guy at heart, give him one more chance with this, and I think you will see a change for the better. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On March 11 2011 08:00 bumatlarge wrote: He didn't do this as gryffindor, right? So that means we are making progress! He said hes not even mad! How about this. I will host a game in the future, and that will be Bill's last chance. If he successfully plays the game with respect towards everyone and makes a valiant effort to subdue his vices, we can make a more accurate judgement on him. If he persists in the aforementioned antics, then he gets the perma-ban. I plan on setting up the game in the near future and will wait on the queue list accordingly. It will be interesting game, I promise, and I'd like to see what people would make of it. I will handle the modding and if you don't want to play with Bill, you don't have to play! Bill is a nice guy at heart, give him one more chance with this, and I think you will see a change for the better. + Show Spoiler + I'm down with that | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
On March 11 2011 08:00 bumatlarge wrote: He didn't do this as gryffindor, right? So that means we are making progress! He said hes not even mad! How about this. I will host a game in the future, and that will be Bill's last chance. If he successfully plays the game with respect towards everyone and makes a valiant effort to subdue his vices, we can make a more accurate judgement on him. If he persists in the aforementioned antics, then he gets the perma-ban. I plan on setting up the game in the near future and will wait on the queue list accordingly. It will be interesting game, I promise, and I'd like to see what people would make of it. I will handle the modding and if you don't want to play with Bill, you don't have to play! Bill is a nice guy at heart, give him one more chance with this, and I think you will see a change for the better. + Show Spoiler + We JUST got through doing this.... He JUST blew his "last chance." Why do you think he will change in the "near future?" This doesn't make any sense to me. Besides, he DID threaten the hosts this game. Plus he persisted in doing analysis on a player (Jackal) after he was already dead. If that isn't game-relevant after death posting, I don't know what is. If there is a movement in a year or whatever to let him play again and Incognito decides it's okay, then I'm okay with it. But I don't agree with this at all. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Bill Murray has had a lot of chances (much more than 4 if you count all the leniency we gave him in the past). Even if he's nice for a week it wouldn't take long before something happened. He also has a habit of antagonizing a situation even after it's already been resolved or a mod says they will handle it. That alone is worth him being banned since aside from one person I can't remember the name of right now, no one else makes a big stink about things. So the ban list has served it's purpose even with giving the guy a ton of chances. Players don't want to play with him except a select few. Tough luck but he brought it upon himself. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
On March 11 2011 08:54 Ace wrote: My memory and my "dont care" attitude made me forget just how terrible BM was (also that PM from Fishball helped ^_^) Bill Murray has had a lot of chances (much more than 4 if you count all the leniency we gave him in the past). Even if he's nice for a week it wouldn't take long before something happened. He also has a habit of antagonizing a situation even after it's already been resolved or a mod says they will handle it. That alone is worth him being banned since aside from one person I can't remember the name of right now, no one else makes a big stink about things. So the ban list has served it's purpose even with giving the guy a ton of chances. Players don't want to play with him except a select few. Tough luck but he brought it upon himself. orgolove? | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
orgolove and jugan made pretty big stinks after their bans. orgolove was bigger though. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On March 11 2011 08:00 bumatlarge wrote: He didn't do this as gryffindor, right? So that means we are making progress! He said hes not even mad! How about this. I will host a game in the future, and that will be Bill's last chance. If he successfully plays the game with respect towards everyone and makes a valiant effort to subdue his vices, we can make a more accurate judgement on him. If he persists in the aforementioned antics, then he gets the perma-ban. I plan on setting up the game in the near future and will wait on the queue list accordingly. It will be interesting game, I promise, and I'd like to see what people would make of it. I will handle the modding and if you don't want to play with Bill, you don't have to play! Bill is a nice guy at heart, give him one more chance with this, and I think you will see a change for the better. + Show Spoiler + The problem is, like Qatol said, we JUST did this. If we allow it again it shows we aren't really going to enforce our decisions and it just encourages him to abuse our charity more. This was supposed to be his one and only chance to redeem himself. He failed and it would be foolish of us to believe that this next game he'll truly be on his best behavior. It may be hard putting our collective foot down, especially someone who is as veteran as BM, but at some point enough is enough. He was supposedly permanantly banned, he got around that and failed his umpteenth chance. If he still wants to play in a year or so I'm not opposed to that but right now I think we should absolutely not let him in again so soon and be like "Ok so now THIS game you have to be extra good in." | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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