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On February 10 2010 06:25 789 wrote:
I think if a mafia ends up down to 1-2 players and can't win anymore, their objective just turns to playing spoiler for whichever faction they choose (the other family or the town). I think the natural choice would be the other family - since their original objective was to wipe them out. They can't win, but they can make someone lose.
or hope to god the town/other mafia start owning eachother and play cleanup crew.
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On February 10 2010 06:09 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2010 05:53 sidesprang wrote:On February 10 2010 05:36 citi.zen wrote:3. As soon as one mafia family falls down to 2 or fewer members, they've essentially lost the game- they cannot win, because either they will be wiped out (the other mafia family wins), or they will reduce the other mafia family to 1-2 members in which case the Town wins. What incentive is there for this mafia family to keep playing, considering they cannot win? Will they have some kind of secondary objective, like a consolation prize? e.g. maybe a secondary objective of theirs would be to not be wiped out, in which case once they fall down to 2 members, they have to push for a Town win rather than let the other mafia family win. This is a very good question. maybe they retire as mafia and join the townies ?  So in the end the victory objective for the mafia changes to... killing the entire town? I don't see it... + Show Spoiler +I guess we could have 2, or even 3 families who are unaware of each other, but they should still aim to kill the town, no?
The leftover mafia become similar to town-aligned vigis. Their presence can and will still confuse the Town into a loss if DT rolechecks them and they've been acting stupid. It then becomes the town's responsibility to... PROTECT the remaining smaller mafia faction to prevent a TOWN loss.
LOL.
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So I guess the mafia win condition is "make other mafia lose"?
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On February 10 2010 06:52 citi.zen wrote:
So I guess the mafia win condition is "make other mafia lose"?
Pretty much...
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United States2186 Posts
On February 10 2010 04:14 meeple wrote:
Sweet... lets get this party started...
Just curious as to why we have the 48 hour days? To be honest in that last game we had the activity to do 24 hours days.
It's not just the activity, the town is totally screwed then since they don't have the time to figure out who the mafia is and then convince everyone to change their votes to that person. In your game a small group of people were extremely active but it took time for the rest of the group to weigh in their opinions and votes. 48 hours is often too short to accomplish that purpose but so far it has worked really well as longer the mafia get kinda screwed.
On February 10 2010 05:15 Zato-1 wrote:
A few questions...
1. If a DT successfully ties a clue to a mafia member / RCs a mafia member, will that DT be told what family the mafia member belongs to? If the answer is yes, will millers appear to be from a random mafia family to DTs?
2. As far as I can see, it's a no-brainer for the mafia families (who don't have the mayor/pardoner among their ranks) to substitute their own members for bodyguards. Am I missing something?
3. As soon as one mafia family falls down to 2 or fewer members, they've essentially lost the game- they cannot win, because either they will be wiped out (the other mafia family wins), or they will reduce the other mafia family to 1-2 members in which case the Town wins. What incentive is there for this mafia family to keep playing, considering they cannot win? Will they have some kind of secondary objective, like a consolation prize? e.g. maybe a secondary objective of theirs would be to not be wiped out, in which case once they fall down to 2 members, they have to push for a Town win rather than let the other mafia family win.
4. What happens in the hypothetical case that all 30 Town members are dead, and after they all die, both families are reduced to 1-2 members each? Does the Town still win?
5. Why does the Gambino Family have a much cooler name than the Sumiyoshi Family?
1. Yes, yes.
2. If it's such a 'no-brainer' the town will simply get the mayor to reveal the bgs then kill them. Mafia have to balance this possibility with the strength of infiltrating office.
3. The Mafia family can still kill off the town and then kill the other family.
4. No, and this needs to be amended to the rules if it is not clear. Town cannot win if it's members are all dead. iirc we had a possible clause saying that the town needed to have a certain number of people left relative to the mafia but I'm not quite sure if it was viable.
If anyone has suggestions to make it so that comebacks are more than possible without having to rely too much on outside interference please give them. This game format was really hard to come up with since we had to design it in such a way that mafia can't team up
5. Give a better name then!
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all three teams can win the game simultaneously
just have a night where the night killers simultaneously kill the last member of each mafia group
then for each mafia family, the other family has been eliminated, so they win.
The town wins too, as all the mafia are dead.
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well, if I take the unstated assumption that once the town wins no mafia group can win, then it's still possible for the last three members of each mafia group to be killed on the same night, which is far less likely, I suppose. 2 kills from each mafia family (with 3 members each) and 2 vigilante kills can lead to this situation
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In response to your response, Ver...
If the win condition for the Town is to have 2 or less mafia left in each family, and we're left in a 3-1 mafia vs X townies situation (where X is obviously >3), then there is no reasonable way for mafia 2 to accomplish their win condition, only that of the Town's... unless I'm critically misreading something.
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48 hour days is a bit much :/
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On February 10 2010 07:26 Ace wrote:
48 hour days is a bit much :/
agree
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I'd like to sign up for this. :D
I was pretty inactive in your last game because it was my first game and I had lots of things going on at the time, but I'll be sure to keep up with this one and stay active.
(I'll fill out my profile soon).
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On February 10 2010 07:03 Ver wrote:
2. If it's such a 'no-brainer' the town will simply get the mayor to reveal the bgs then kill them. Mafia have to balance this possibility with the strength of infiltrating office.
Right. I'd totally forgotten the Mayor knows the names of his bodyguards.
On February 10 2010 07:03 Ver wrote:
3. The Mafia family can still kill off the town and then kill the other family.
Fair enough. If you have to kill every last Town member first, though, it's still a bit of a stretch to have to go to such lengths to have a chance to win, though... suddenly, your victory conditions go from 'kill all 10 mafia members of the other family' to 'kill all 30 Town members, THEN kill all 10 mafia members of the other family'. I'm not sure I like what this does for the game- the chance of winning is so remote, you're basically screwed if your numbers fall to 2 or lower.
I actually like the idea I proposed better- trying to screw the other mafia family over and preventing them from winning as a secondary objective. The remaining members of the battered mafia family still have a strong incentive to keep on being active players, and this brings an interesting twist to the Town- making a strategic alliance with the weaker mafia faction, in order to stand up together to the mafia faction that's winning- going as far as to try to medic cover them at night, etc. In fact, this is already an optimal strategy to the Town- if they allow the weaker mafia faction to die out completely, they lose. This just makes it interesting for the weaker mafia faction as well. Balance-wise, having the weaker mafia faction support the Town's cause will make the Town stronger as a faction, but this can easily be compensated for by adjusting the number of blue roles they have.
On February 10 2010 07:03 Ver wrote:
4. No, and this needs to be amended to the rules if it is not clear. Town cannot win if it's members are all dead. iirc we had a possible clause saying that the town needed to have a certain number of people left relative to the mafia but I'm not quite sure if it was viable.
It wasn't clear to me, at least. It would be nice if this could be cleared up officially on the rules.
On February 10 2010 07:03 Ver wrote:
5. Give a better name then!
The Salvatore Family
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
36 hour day? I'd imagine it'd get a bit inconvenient but it seems that most things that are going to be said and done are done in the first 24 hours with the relatively inactive people playing "cleanup."
Also wait... if the two mafia teams are out to kill each other, for some reason I'd actually think the game is going to be made harder for the town. There are going to be 30 townies versus 20 mafia... but since the mafia don't win even if they kill off all the town that basically just makes the town fodder for both sides. The only way the town could win is if they manage to rally together early on, since after the first few rounds of playing townie numbers can be pretty close to being down to mafia numbers, as each family starts with a full ten people, which is already at a third strength.
Then again, the mafia could just ignore the town and focus on owning each other... but once the family is dead the mafia win? Or do they still have to kill the town?
EDIT: reread the OP, and since they don't have to eliminate the town that kind of punts the town to a subsidiary role in the game; cannon fodder seriously.
Ehh all in all I kind of think that while two mafia families can provide a lot of fun and new excitement to the game, it'd be less "mafia" since it's not the town vs. mafia snipefest we're used to. Really, the town could just sit aside and let the mafia try to slam each other (even though the town would take hits.) since the town wins if the mafia families can kill each other off.
Hmmm okay so this is written from me while I'm in a highly sleep-deprived state... but yeah let's do this.
Looking forward to game start!
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The game is over if the town is dead - the bmafiawith more kp wins, they know who the other mafia are.
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I tried to run a game like this once, but it failed. I do remember it being very hard for ANY side to just "win" easily. Remember that everyone has a 1 vs 2 scenario so it's not like the Town is any more fucked than the Mafia families. Hell I even remember the families figuring each other out and there was a "truce" of some sort that was about to be broken.
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I would like to join :D
are there more spots?
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On February 10 2010 09:18 Abenson wrote:
I would like to join :D
are there more spots?
Abenson I hope you don't die first night this time :D
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Yep..
First i was all excited, participating in the discussions since it's my first mafia game..
Then i died.
D:
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Revised win objectives:
The town must eliminate at least 8 members of each family AND must outnumber the surviving mafia.
The Gambino family must eliminate the Sumiyoshi family.
The Sumiyoshi family must eliminate the Gambino family.
Feedback appreciated.
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EPT
