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Makro
France16890 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:09 Doomwish wrote: wow.. anyone just watch that boxing match...Ref DQ a boxer because he was holding? seems pretty severe. Guy has been training for years and just gets thrown out in the first round by an overzealous ref. who vs who ? | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:08 Pandemona wrote: Aww Jamieson </3 so close, took a world record to beat him, well done! Great to have the Thropedo giving insight to swimming for BBC, very clever man xD Onwards to tomorrow! Ian "look" Thorpe has been great so far, very nice to have him. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On August 02 2012 05:37 Trok67 wrote: it makes sense if you consider that the team is made of more than 4 people (up to 8 athletes). That is coherent with the fact that swimmers who swim during the series/semifinal gets the medal too even if they haven't swam during the final. That actually makes even less sense. Why would you ever use only 4 swimmers, if you can get away with using 8 and thereby assuring 8 players a medal? The medals encourage changing lineup as much as possible, which does not make any consistency in the competition. If you have a team of 4 and no more you have everyone on an equal footing. If the stars can't be bothered to waste time and energy on team-events, it is just too bad for their medal-counts... | ||
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WestTyrant
84 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:09 Doomwish wrote: wow.. anyone just watch that boxing match...Ref DQ a boxer because he was holding? seems pretty severe. Guy has been training for years and just gets thrown out in the first round by an overzealous ref. That ref was even worse than the one for shimizu  | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:19 radiatoren wrote: That actually makes even less sense. Why would you ever use only 4 swimmers, if you can get away with using 8 and thereby assuring 8 players a medal? The medals encourage changing lineup as much as possible, which does not make any consistency in the competition. If you have a team of 4 and no more you have everyone on an equal footing. If the stars can't be bothered to waste time and energy on team-events, it is just too bad for their medal-counts... it's not a question of being bothered it's a question of viability. those stars have to do 3runs in each race they're engaged and they just cannot afford to do heat/semis for team races. Without Phelps/Magnussen/Lochte & co a lot of ppl wouldn't watch those events. About the silly example of the 1st poster: country A has 0 depth and thus is normally put at a disadvantage. Your view of fairness makes you oblivious about everythingelse... | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:19 radiatoren wrote: That actually makes even less sense. Why would you ever use only 4 swimmers, if you can get away with using 8 and thereby assuring 8 players a medal? The medals encourage changing lineup as much as possible, which does not make any consistency in the competition. If you have a team of 4 and no more you have everyone on an equal footing. If the stars can't be bothered to waste time and energy on team-events, it is just too bad for their medal-counts... the olympic organizers always want swimming and field track seperated, so swimming has less time for their events, so it happens that team heats and important individual swims are almost at the same time. Having events 1 day from each other is no problem for those swimmers at the 200m distances, so it doesnt really create an advantage to let others swim the finals on the next day, but it gives the individual swimmers the chance to participate in the team events as well. If ot wouldnt be like that, only swimmer that are too slow for individual races would participate in team races, and who wants to watch that. That would be like welfare medals :p | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:19 radiatoren wrote: That actually makes even less sense. Why would you ever use only 4 swimmers, if you can get away with using 8 and thereby assuring 8 players a medal? The medals encourage changing lineup as much as possible, which does not make any consistency in the competition. If you have a team of 4 and no more you have everyone on an equal footing. If the stars can't be bothered to waste time and energy on team-events, it is just too bad for their medal-counts... you are saying it's unfair when a team with more depth gets an advantage in a team event? what? | ||
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Otolia
France5805 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:28 LaNague wrote: the olympic organizers always want swimming and field track seperated, so swimming has less time for their events, so it happens that team heats and important individual swims are almost at the same time. Having events 1 day from each other is no problem for those swimmers at the 200m distances, so it doesnt really create an advantage to let others swim the finals on the next day, but it gives the individual swimmers the chance to participate in the team events as well. If ot wouldnt be like that, only swimmer that are too slow for individual races would participate in team races, and who wants to watch that. That would be like welfare medals :p *cough* American broadcasters *cough* | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:24 sAsImre wrote: it's not a question of being bothered it's a question of viability. those stars have to do 3runs in each race they're engaged and they just cannot afford to do heat/semis for team races. Without Phelps/Magnussen/Lochte & co a lot of ppl wouldn't watch those events. About the silly example of the 1st poster: country A has 0 depth and thus is normally put at a disadvantage. Your view of fairness makes you oblivious about everythingelse... that's a completely unfounded assumption. the relay is a legitimate medal event, not something that swimmers take part in if they have the time. also you bring up the fact that no one would watch it without phelps/mag/lochte, etc which is also nonsense considering the fact that people watch them because they're the best swimmers for their respective countries who have the best chance of helping their country secure a medal. If it was a popularity competition for ratings, you might as well just throw bieber and prince harry in there. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On August 02 2012 06:28 LaNague wrote: the olympic organizers always want swimming and field track seperated, so swimming has less time for their events, so it happens that team heats and important individual swims are almost at the same time. Having events 1 day from each other is no problem for those swimmers at the 200m distances, so it doesnt really create an advantage to let others swim the finals on the next day, but it gives the individual swimmers the chance to participate in the team events as well. If ot wouldnt be like that, only swimmer that are too slow for individual races would participate in team races, and who wants to watch that. That would be like welfare medals :p As it is at the moment some teams are speculating in bringing in some b-teamers for the semifinals. Now that is true welfare medals compared to a 4 man fixed team. I know how it is to swim several events in a day and that is part of the game in weekend events. Having more than one event each day is not a problem. More than 4 starts in a day is. The thing is: If you often get these medal-eaters, like Phelps, in swimming it might be because there are too many events with relatively equal skill-requirements. The best solution to the problem of the event-pressure is to remove some events from the schedule. Now I take on my flamecoat! On August 02 2012 06:28 Keniji wrote: you are saying it's unfair when a team with more depth gets an advantage in a team event? what? I am saying that flexible team-size does not make sense. Being able to speculate in how many people you can use, does not have anything to do with a teams potential. Viewing a nation as a team in itself is what is making no sense since qualification to each event is limited to that specific event, apparently unless it is a team-event and your country has enough swimmers qualified in individual events. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On August 02 2012 05:37 Trok67 wrote: it makes sense if you consider that the team is made of more than 4 people (up to 8 athletes). That is coherent with the fact that swimmers who swim during the series/semifinal gets the medal too even if they haven't swam during the final. where is your source that teams are composed up to 8 athletes? | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
Also, you forget they allready do have at least 2 events in a day, they swim in the morning and in the evening. And as a matter of fact, they allready DO cancel their participation in events, but noone except a handful of people want to see those big names cancel out of the team events. Also, those team events are national team events, not "team of 4 people" events. So how is one nation having 8 swimmers being able to qualify for an olympic finale an unfair advantage in a national competition :p | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On August 02 2012 07:12 JoeSchmoe wrote: where is your source that teams are composed up to 8 athletes? He does not really need one. If you are the USA, you can have 4 swimmers participating in the preliminary (which for team-events are semifinals at the olympics this year.) Then you can change all 4 swimmers out in the final. 4+4=8 so logic is enough. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On August 02 2012 07:03 JoeSchmoe wrote: that's a completely unfounded assumption. the relay is a legitimate medal event, not something that swimmers take part in if they have the time. also you bring up the fact that no one would watch it without phelps/mag/lochte, etc which is also nonsense considering the fact that people watch them because they're the best swimmers for their respective countries who have the best chance of helping their country secure a medal. If it was a popularity competition for ratings, you might as well just throw bieber and prince harry in there. nice nice someone should read a bit of Schopenauer before trying to be smart. Lochte/Mag and co are the most popular because of one reason: they're the best AND they bring in the audience. You're trying to mix things up either because you're a retard or don't have any argument, i'll take the latter in your case tho. User was warned for this post | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On August 02 2012 07:19 radiatoren wrote: Then you can change all 4 swimmers out in the final. 4+4=8 so logic is enough. not really a logical assumption. no team has switched out all 4 swimmers. the most I saw was 2. it can be also inferred from this fact that teams are allowed 2 subs. i can't find concrete rules for this anywhere but from what i have found, it appears you are allowed substitutions at individual events as well which is odd... | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On August 02 2012 07:18 LaNague wrote: look, i dont know what you swam, but these people swim at the absolute human maximum. Look when they just finished a race, their muscles are darkred/blue after even 100m. they cant really swim that 2 times in the span of 2 hours. Also, you forget they allready do have at least 2 events in a day, they swim in the morning and in the evening. And as a matter of fact, they allready DO cancel their participation in events, but noone except a handful of people want to see those big names cancel out of the team events. Also, those team events are national team events, not "team of 4 people" events. So how is one nation having 8 swimmers being able to qualify for an olympic finale an unfair advantage in a national competition :p Pretty selective reading there: I use the word "start" and not event for exactly that reason. Missy Franklin did actually swim 2 events in 2 hours and several others have done it before her and several others will do it again in the future. I am aware of cancellations happening, but I really do think it is a question of schedualing. National events does not make it an "open event" for anybody the coach want to have enter. That is what it is now. There are no requirements for the participating swimmers ability in the specific relay-discipline. Hell, if that is the case, why is it not possible for zimbabwe to take in 8 swimmers to the olympics? Sure realistically they can't qualify for the finals, but if they do, they should be given a disadvantage? | ||
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