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United States37500 Posts
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Jhin, the Virtuoso, will be released the week after patch 6.2's launch!
Patch 6.2: Live on Jan. 28th, 2015
+ Show Spoiler [Previous Gameplay Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Anyone played the new Shen yet? (Is it even out?)
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It's out. I've watched a bit, not played, but he looks legit pretty decent in lane. More damage than I thought. W is not all *that* crazy (pretty low duration) but the rest is basically 'Shen but now with damage.'
W does block GP Q so that's pretty amusing. If you play it right, GP's probably dead.
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Here's what I have for Shen:
Masteries: 12/0/18 (obvious) Runes: Yellows - I think flat HP hands down no matter what Quints - Armor or AS Reds - AS (if armor quints) or Hybrid pen (if AS quints) Blues - either 6 scaling CDR + MR / 6 flat, 3 scaling CDR / lots of MR
I'm also not convinced that top lane Shen is that good, and he's probably even better as a support now (like all the glorious Riot "top laners")
New shen is also about as boring and uninteractive as old shen so don't really thing Riot got their design goals down that well.
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The TPA skin looks great tho
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Bearded Elder29876 Posts
I've already mentioned that Q Gragas buff with lower CD on Q and MS slow but this
Gragas Drunken Rage (W) next basic attack now does damage to all nearby enemies.
is awesome as well.
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Too lazy to run the math, is there a consensus on best masteries for Xin jungle? I've tried 18/0/12 and 0/18/12 and outside of first clear it's super hard to tell the difference.
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On January 29 2016 13:24 739 wrote: I've already mentioned that Q Gragas buff with lower CD on Q and MS slow but this
Gragas Drunken Rage (W) next basic attack now does damage to all nearby enemies.
is awesome as well.
Am I just blind or is that not in the patch notes anywhere?
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On January 29 2016 17:03 Zess wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 13:24 739 wrote: I've already mentioned that Q Gragas buff with lower CD on Q and MS slow but this
Gragas Drunken Rage (W) next basic attack now does damage to all nearby enemies.
is awesome as well. Am I just blind or is that not in the patch notes anywhere? It's on PBE.
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the shy's nid clear is fucking insane
yeah it doesn't work if people invade but if they don't it's insane
do 5 camps and end up at enemy's 2nd buff (their 3rd/4th camp) in time to kill them
gave it a test run and it was insane how fast that opening snowballed the game. I didn't even do it perfectly.
I think I was level 9 at the 8minute mark? to trundles level 4/5?
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/42pswq/the_shys_no_leash_nidalee_jungle_clear/?ref=search_posts
ppl might be more aware of it due to reddit but I imagine it's still usable for a decent amount of freelo
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On January 29 2016 12:55 Zess wrote: Here's what I have for Shen:
(...) I'm also not convinced that top lane Shen is that good, and he's probably even better as a support now (like all the glorious Riot "top laners")
New shen is also about as boring and uninteractive as old shen so don't really thing Riot got their design goals down that well. I dunno how it is in lane (prob still more interactive in previous passive match-ups and vs ranged ones, since you have to be doing stuff to get your shield instead of sustaining?), but teamfights should have more decision-making as to where you get the sword, either with you or near your carries so you can W them. You can do both by sitting besides them but then you're missing out on damage and cc-ing priority targets?
And when Riot design a support they slap a ton of damage on top of its utility so it's not useless in 2v2s early on, so obviously Tahm gets his ult's passive (why does that have to be a thing at all is beyond me), while when they design a top laner they give him a lot of utility so he's not just a ball of stats and can do something while behind.
Why the AS runes now that he doesn't have Ki Strike's cooldown reduced by attacking? Just to make using Q's buff easier even if you don't hit a champion?
On January 29 2016 08:41 Caiada wrote: It's out. I've watched a bit, not played, but he looks legit pretty decent in lane. More damage than I thought. W is not all *that* crazy (pretty low duration) but the rest is basically 'Shen but now with damage.'
W does block GP Q so that's pretty amusing. If you play it right, GP's probably dead. Does that mean Parrrley can miss the barrel?
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Don't believe so. It doesn't block it on minions at least. Dyrus seemed to think it blocked some damage from barrel explosions, which would be interesting, but that doesn't sound at all right. Could have just been the passive shield.
I think top lane Shen's a lot better if you're into a decent matchup, and support Shen comes out about even. Q damage and W/passive shield are really good trading tools assuming it's not someone like Gnar with ranged harassment. I think as support he'd just be a dive buddy in lane, compared to the significant sustain he brought before. But you're still Shen out of lane, so, it'll still be good.
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Bearded Elder29876 Posts
On January 29 2016 17:03 Zess wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 13:24 739 wrote: I've already mentioned that Q Gragas buff with lower CD on Q and MS slow but this
Gragas Drunken Rage (W) next basic attack now does damage to all nearby enemies.
is awesome as well. Am I just blind or is that not in the patch notes anywhere? Exactly. It's on PBE but I hope it make through. So both Gragas` Q/W are going to be nice for my main.
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On January 29 2016 17:56 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 12:55 Zess wrote: Here's what I have for Shen:
(...) I'm also not convinced that top lane Shen is that good, and he's probably even better as a support now (like all the glorious Riot "top laners")
New shen is also about as boring and uninteractive as old shen so don't really thing Riot got their design goals down that well. I dunno how it is in lane (prob still more interactive in previous passive match-ups and vs ranged ones, since you have to be doing stuff to get your shield instead of sustaining?), but teamfights should have more decision-making as to where you get the sword, either with you or near your carries so you can W them. You can do both by sitting besides them but then you're missing out on damage and cc-ing priority targets? And when Riot design a support they slap a ton of damage on top of its utility so it's not useless in 2v2s early on, so obviously Tahm gets his ult's passive (why does that have to be a thing at all is beyond me), while when they design a top laner they give him a lot of utility so he's not just a ball of stats and can do something while behind. Why the AS runes now that he doesn't have Ki Strike's cooldown reduced by attacking? Just to make using Q's buff easier even if you don't hit a champion? Show nested quote +On January 29 2016 08:41 Caiada wrote: It's out. I've watched a bit, not played, but he looks legit pretty decent in lane. More damage than I thought. W is not all *that* crazy (pretty low duration) but the rest is basically 'Shen but now with damage.'
W does block GP Q so that's pretty amusing. If you play it right, GP's probably dead. Does that mean Parrrley can miss the barrel?
For lane: In theory you should be actively trying to position your sword around the lane, but that's not really actually possible because how can you just walk past your minion line to get your sword in a favorable position and not get absolutely shit on? So now instead of just chucking Qs to sustain you go for the E->W combo where you do quite a lot of damage and the enemy can't trade back because AAs miss (and you can do it in their minion wave because their minion AAs will also miss) and as they walk away you kite past them and Q through them to give you more dmg as you walk out of your W and to slow them. It's less interactive and OMGSUCHSKILL than top Alistar where you had to be somewhat proficient to get the W->AA combo off.
In ranged matchups old Shen could poke back a little with Q and shield with W. Now you use your W to just totally deny their harass while you farm in the wave and then back out because you can't actually throw your Q out and just use it for the shield.
For teamfights: There's marginally more interaction because you can't just spam Q in case that puts your sword someplace dumb where using W would no longer be helpful. But in a lot of cases you're going to be ulting in to the fight, either as part of a dive, in which case you want to pull Q and then W to save both you and your dive buddy, or you're peeling their dive in which case it still works to cover your backline.
For runes: Getting your Q to go through champions reliably isn't possible unless you're dominating the lane (or maybe I'm just bad) so the AS runes still help to get the Q procs off even when you don't get the AS bonus. Also vs ranged harass it helps a lot to just Q to yourself for the shield and last hit under tower (but again I'm bad so maybe you don't need the AS to last hit well).
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So i said i would go a little bit into Jhins numbers in the other thread so i am doing that here.
He gets 2 to 40% bonus AD, 4% per 10% for crit and 2.5% per 10 on AS. Plus he can also crit on attacks 1-3 for reduced damage.
Breakeven points for this suggest that its basically never worth it to buy attack speed. And only worth it to buy critical strike if it comes with raw AD. Any AS/Crit item you would buy should be only for the move speed. A singular Zeal is nearly as strong as a full PD because the extra 10% crit is about the only thing that really valuable.
Raw AD breakeven for Phantom Dancer[+23.25% AD mult] vs 65 AD(no crit) is ~280 AD at level 1 and 391 AD at level 18. [all numbers before any other multiplication from buffs]. If we assume he has IE/ER already then the auto attack breakeven for only the first 3 auto attacks is 174 AD and ~250 AD for the combination of all 4 attacks. Once you add in a spell rotation, the fact that a 65 AD item is going to have other properties like crit or pen or life steal... i can't see why you would buy one of the zeal items unless you wanted the special properties of it. None of them seem that worth it.
So it looks like the "potential" core of items we might want to look at is
Deaths Dance: 75 AD, defensive passive ER: 65 AD, 8% AD Mult + CDR, 20% crit IE: 65 AD, 8% AD Mult, Crit Mult, 20% crit Whisper Item: Duh, Good base damage and someone will build armor Black Cleaver: 55 AD, 20% CDR, Regular old Armor Shred Trinity Force: 25 AD, +11.75% AD mult, Spell Blade [Jhin can abuse E charges to proc when he wants] Youmuu's: 65 AD, 20 Flat Armor Pen +5% AD mult on active, CDR Bloodthirster: 75 AD, Life Steal Maw: 55 AD, MR, Shield, 5% AD mult on shield, 10 armor pen
So "Core" to me feels like IE/ER. And if you want any AS item you want triforce. While his passive does not multiply his base AD as base AD he has an easy enough time getting spellblade setup because he can store E charges, and he should often lead fights with W. Plus of course it has a lot of other stats you will want.
His base damages appear to be good, and he can do damage through the team with his Q, so Youmuu's/Maw might also be quite strong.
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The AS for movespeed is pretty nice though.
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Youmuu's burst of MS is really nice for Graves, so I imagine it could be even better for Jhin who can only reposition in fights by walking around. The other option would be RFC but you'd be buying that almost entirely for the MS and passive to hope for the timing to give you eehan 4th shot snipes (whereas RFC Graves lets you reload faster too).
I will say, having played against a bunch of Jhin, he doesn't really seem overtuned, just really obnoxious and in certain situations is guaranteed to get free damage off and obliterate people. For all of Riot's talk about making things more interactive, I cannot think of a less interactive champion to play against. It's like playing Mario Party 1v3 minigames where you just dodge things and the other guy plays his minigame.
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On February 02 2016 14:11 wei2coolman wrote: The AS for movespeed is pretty nice though.
Triforce has better move speed with the proc, and you get 5% from Zeal alone, the same as PD/Static. Only 2% less than RFC/Ruunans. So you can just sit on Zeal until you can finish Triforce or just sit on Zeal and do nothing with it
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Australia18228 Posts
I tried Jungle Jhin, first clear is decent. Got 3:10 for leashless krugs -> red -> blue doing E->Q but his ganks are terrible. Theoretically you could auto/Q-W-E for some CC but his MS is so garbage
On top Shen, I think hes decent atm. He can survive most matchups with good Q+passive and W timings.
Thoughts on matchups from trying a few 1v1 customs (so ignoring jungle pressure):
Fiora - You have kill pressure until level 6 then you can't afford to taunt in when her ult's up. Lv1 your Q+passive does more than her Q so you should trade early if you can. Your W blocks her Q so you can easily mitigate her harass. You outdamage her if you have everything up so it becomes a game of taunt vs riposte but you should win most early trades
Gnar - Still a hard matchup but it's a bit easier than old Shen. You win trades if you can land taunt but they should be able to dodge with E. You'll probably end up down in CS since you can only farm when Q/W is up
Lissandra - She doesn't have the mana pool to burn through your passive. You win trades if you land taunt so she should be zoned and it'll likely end up as a farm lane.
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On February 02 2016 17:08 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2016 14:11 wei2coolman wrote: The AS for movespeed is pretty nice though. Triforce has better move speed with the proc, and you get 5% from Zeal alone, the same as PD/Static. Only 2% less than RFC/Ruunans. So you can just sit on Zeal until you can finish Triforce or just sit on Zeal and do nothing with it Was watching some nightblu3 clip from PBE, he seems to really like hurricane since it maximizes the amount of damage he can do with his limited shots. Just some food for thought, I tried it out, and it felt like shit.
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