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United States37500 Posts
Welcome to the Patch Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around the most recent patch and gameplay on the live client.
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Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Kindred, the Eternal Hunters, will be released a bit later during Patch 5.20.
Patch 5.20: Live on Oct. 14th, 2015
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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United States37500 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I wonder if Mundo becomes slightly more viable in the jungle with these changes and Cinderhulk.
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For the record, Kindred clear/sustain is IN FUCKING SANE. In theory, you would never have to back from your first clear.
I just threw on a random 21 offense runepage (with skill+spellweaving) and a ArPen/Armor/MR/AtkSpd runepage.
I figured I'd try her similar to Quinn top.
"Devourer obviously, either Brutalizer or Phage (tending torwards phage tho...), boots 1, Bilgewater Cutlass" is what I figured to aim for first. No completed items, but really really good allround combat brawl stats and cheap.
Transition into Devourer, Triforce (Ghostblade), BotRK, Boots2, Last Whisper...
It feels very lacking in the defense department tho... I kinda wanna be more like a brawler, it would emphasize her skirmish kit (the zone with the jumps).
Also, this is what I feel about skill order:
Start W Q E imo.
E max first. Strong ganking and dueling tool (the burst on 3rd AA is INSANE). W max second. Makes wolf do more AA dmg and lowers CD = jumping+fighting+kiting more often. Q max last. It gives nothing but higher base damages.
You could make a case if you afk farm for 20 minutes for W>Q>E... but her whole kit is designed around early agression, so idk.
Anyway, I'm a silver/gold scrub, so I just wanted to get this started!
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With the Devourer nerfs for ranged champs, why not go for Warrior enchantment instead? Might fit your desire of wanting to be a brawler better than building Devourer
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I'm scared of giving up too much damage tbh, you can AA a whole fucking lot as kindred, plus you have insane clear... you dont need drake for stacking devourer imo.
But you are right, I should test that. ArPen and 10 CDR would be nice
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Since I'm stupid and post in the wrong thread:
On October 14 2015 14:12 Jek wrote: A Kindred that gets going looks to be hilarious (or an ally to "leech" assists from and/or assist Kindred with invades). Pretty interesting she sorta in an odd sense scales off allies snowballing too.
Attack speed is pretty insane on her once she gets a few stack. Holy moly a Kindred can melt dragon and baron fast.
On October 14 2015 15:32 rebdomine wrote: With the Devourer nerfs for ranged champs, why not go for Warrior enchantment instead? Might fit your desire of wanting to be a brawler better than building Devourer She has rediculous scaling off attack speed. Warrior "only" have +10 armor pen and her ability has very low AD scaling and CDR doesn't really do that much for her. The double proc is honestly just icing on the cake.
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Triforce is bad because Kindred is bottom-3 base AD (49-86), meaning the spellblade passive doesn't do that much damage. Their passive means synergy with AS, while the combination of low base AD, low total AD ratios and high base damage on their abilities means ArPen trumps AD all day long (good thing ArPen works on the passive too).
BotRK looks core, as I'd argue a jungle budget directs you toward a 1-2 items timing (+ jungle item), even if you get a mid or offlaner who can cede you farm later on. I'd also argue for Warrior over Devourer, on one side you get ArPen and an early timing, on the other you get AS (which BotRK gives you anyway) and a powerful on-hit effect but that requires stacking, with the sated Devourer being largely nerfed. Devourer-BotRK also seems like too much AS for me, you're really going to suffer in a bad game that won't let you stack your passive or devourer quickly as you'll have very little damage.
Per-level gains: Q: only 30 damage, but you have to keep in mind the cooldown is only 2s inside W's field, which translates into a lot more dps. W: 1s cd, 5 damage on Wolf's attacks. The healing, Wolf's AS, and Wolf's damage are almost entirely independant of the skill's level. Unless the cd reduction is as sorely needed as, say, Vi's Q, I don't see the point in leveling this early. E: 1s cd, 30 damage. Again, the damage boost is very low. Ignoring the %health damage, Kindred need 100 AD for their regular autos to beat Wolf's with E remaining level 1. They don't even reach that at level 18 if you don't buy items, so you're in no hurry. The main point is the cooldown reduction again, as the slow doesn't scale per level either.
The TL;DR is "unless you really need a cooldown to be reduced, Q trumps the other abilities in terms of dps and should be maxed first." Then it's between reducing a cooldown for more mobility (W) or more cc (E). E's slow is very weak, and assuming W's cd starts when you cast it and not when the field dissipates, it's very valuable to lower it in terms of uptime. Assuming no CDR, W's uptime is 44% at level 1 and 57% at level 5, an increase of ~28%. With 20% CDR (assuming warrior and another source) you're up to 71% uptime (and it's virtually always up if you reach 40% CDR).
So it's R > Q > W > E for me.
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Looks like the passive stacks bug a lot
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But you don't need the higher damage on Q early on when you are just ganking and farming. Kindred has no problems at all clearing camps.
Also, while ganking, no enemy ever will stay for 8 seconds inside the wolf zone. I'm also reluctant to walk closely to melee champions because those might be able to turn and trade 1 for 1. Since the zone is always centered around Kindred, its next to impossible to get full value out of it early game.
So I want to get the most damage possible on a fleeing target, and thats hands down E for me.
You could make an argument for E > Q > W though. Depends on how the game is going so far though. If you group and play objectives, higher Q dmg should be better. If you do wild skirmishes all over the map, more often W should be better.
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Q and E gain the same damage per level, so aside from the cooldown, as long as you cast Q once during the gank and it hit your target, there's no difference whether you max Q or E. Unless the cd reduction makes a difference so that you get another E during a gank that you wouldn't have otherwise (for an ability going from 16s to 12s cd), there's no benefit from maxing E over Q, and if you get another E cast, you'd have had at least another Q (since it has a 9s cd) meaning it's the 1s 70% slow that makes the difference for you.
On top of this, note that you can cast Q to catch up to a target, then cast W to reduce its cd to 2 seconds and have it available at least once more during the gank/chase, you don't need to pounce within W to get the reduced cd.
Does justify passing up the mobility/dps from Q? Makes me wonder if you could bait melee champions by casting W while near a wall, jumping over, and after they dash/flash after you, using the shortened cd to Q back over the same wall to run/rejoin the fight.
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From playing around with her on the PBE I found WQE into R>Q>E>W to be my preferred priority (with all 3 at level 3 of course). I tried other things first but leveling Q had a very noticeable effect on my DPS during a gank. In addition to what Alaric said if you Q from within the circle to outside the circle you *also* reset Q. So it's really easy to get 3 Qs off, the main problems are if they flash or were too far away to begin with, E max won't actually help you there since it's almost impossible to not get at least *one* Q. They can also try to hide in creeps but you should be able to manage that if you aren't getting counterganked.
Granted, it is the PBE and I am not a great player. But my experience lines up with all of Alaric's points. Q max first is better, I am sure of this, there is just no comparison in terms of how much easier and faster it is to get kills. By comparison E>W I'm not as sure about but I liked the finishing damage and you're a little more likely to get it off twice in a fight than W.
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The Mundo buffs are pretty nice, since now you can trade with some E burst and then back off and keep farming.
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Kindred is ranged ad champs like ranged ad champ, nothing memorable or remarkable, the stacks mechanics actually makes him weak if he did not get enough of them imo, but again nothing worth to pay attention to.
However, the ultimate is brutal, it does not even make sense in his kit and to some extend in league of legends itself. Its like something taken from another game, I cant even explain, it just doesn't match. No idea how to put it
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United States37500 Posts
The new Mundo is rather interesting. He trades so well now. I want to say Titanic is good on him, not so much for the AoE cleave but just to have another auto reset helps a lot with burst. Now to find a decent item build on him.
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Canada13372 Posts
Kindred is fun, don't play THAT much league but been spamming her this weekend. Super fun!
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On October 19 2015 03:41 ZeromuS wrote: Kindred is fun, don't play THAT much league but been spamming her this weekend. Super fun! whats so fun about her? adc like adc, only the ulti is a bit different
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On October 19 2015 06:40 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2015 03:41 ZeromuS wrote: Kindred is fun, don't play THAT much league but been spamming her this weekend. Super fun! whats so fun about her? adc like adc, only the ulti is a bit different It's one of the few junglers that is Riot Approved to carry on.
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