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The tried and true way to deal with this if you arent double jungling is a little bit of what everyone has said, but this is the optimal way.
First of all, obviously always ward your blind spot even against amumu just for consistency. get into a habit of being a consistent player and not leaving things up to luck. Ward for invade everytime.
2nd, Dont smite krugs/gromp if its an obvious invade character like nidalee/shaco/khazix. it barely delays you and its well worth it to be able to smite the buff so they cant just come and steal it from you. Especially important krugs side since you get a shitload of HP from smiting red and will win you the lvl 2 fight
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Thanks for the tips guys, I've been warding rivers around 50s just to get vision of incoming invades, but it seems like I should just ping one of bot lane to do it and use bodies as wards for the remainder, so that way my own trinket is still up at 1:40
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I always ward around 1 minute as mid/top (vision vs late invades, or on a buff if i can get it) so it's up at 3, and just save my ward for red/blue buff bush (whichever i do second) as a jungler.
Bot lane I like to have one at 2 minutes in case bush control becomes an issue or i smell a lvl 2 cheese gank
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Kindred is not coming up in this patch. Will show somewhere at 5.20
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Crossposting for continuing the Rammus discussion
On October 13 2015 13:18 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2015 08:35 Scip wrote:On October 13 2015 08:30 Ketara wrote: FotM + Tabi vs DMP is probably something deserving of math.
I'm not gonna do the math though, meow~ well FotM+Tabi vs DMP is only relevant until the point where DMP also gets neough money to get Ninja tabi. It's clearly going to give more combat stats after that until the point when you finish another value item but obviously I don't think the combat stat difference is high enough to justify building DMP in a lot of cases. Looking at it though it might be justifiable in a lot of cases too doe. I mean there's a 500 gold gap on both sides of tabi, dmp finishes 500g before fotm+tabi, and you get dmp+tabi 500g after that. I guess the income from fotm situationally makes that a larger gap, but it's still not quite like fotm+tabi is equal to dmp. (although dmp does have a pretty high combine cost, so you have another lull there.) I haven't tried it much, but the few times i did i found the ms and cc from dmp surprisingly useful if you finish it before laning ends. The ms makes your ganks scary even if you have to cancel your q (enemy dodging through minions) and if they're flashless, you can get an extra auto or two on them before they get away by delaying your taunt slightly. + the first auto is another 100 bonus damage, and you get 15 permanent ad from your passive on top of that, which adds up if you're trying to burst someone down in a gank/tower dive. how is dmp 500 gold before fotm and tabi when dmp costs 2750 FotM is 2200 and tabi is 675 2750-2200-675=-125 with targons passive it comes online at arguably very similiar time. Sure, the dmg isn't irrelevant (although it's only 12.5 AD, if we compare DMP vs. Fotm+Tabi it's only 6.25 AD). I think DMP is a fine buy but I personally would still usually prefer the FotM shield and other utilities.
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how does the double jungle work? You share first camp experience, kill the buff red/blue buff monster and then let top laner take the smaller red/blue buff creeps? I think that makes both of you hit 2 right?
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you do 2 camps together all the time without anyone going back or further so you both take the experience equally, jungle takes the big creeps, whoever take the small ones does not matter, just kill the camps as fast as you can. one of the camps should be blue/red - you both get lvl 2and if you are fast enough you may fast gank top while enemy is still lvl 1 - optional
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my preferred double jungle method is just let both players have an entire camp. clear faster. so give blue buff or red buff completely to the jungler, and then give wraiths or wolves completely to top lane.
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On October 13 2015 23:51 VayneAuthority wrote: my preferred double jungle method is just let both players have an entire camp. clear faster. so give blue buff or red buff completely to the jungler, and then give wraiths or wolves completely to top lane.
Don't you lose machete bonus gold this way?
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On October 13 2015 23:59 Prog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2015 23:51 VayneAuthority wrote: my preferred double jungle method is just let both players have an entire camp. clear faster. so give blue buff or red buff completely to the jungler, and then give wraiths or wolves completely to top lane. Don't you lose machete bonus gold this way?
15 gold to not fuck over your top laner completely is worth i'd say. the amount of times ive automatically lost lane because I did a slow double lvl 1 double jungle with some one is numerous since I play late game scaling champs.
Being eternally behind a half lvl as nasus or something is awful
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Why's it faster to take a whole camp rather than split?
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On October 14 2015 00:17 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2015 23:59 Prog wrote:On October 13 2015 23:51 VayneAuthority wrote: my preferred double jungle method is just let both players have an entire camp. clear faster. so give blue buff or red buff completely to the jungler, and then give wraiths or wolves completely to top lane. Don't you lose machete bonus gold this way? 15 gold to not fuck over your top laner completely is worth i'd say. the amount of times ive automatically lost lane because I did a slow double lvl 1 double jungle with some one is numerous since I play late game scaling champs. Being eternally behind a half lvl as nasus or something is awful
But you could just give all the small creeps to the toplaner and he still gets 2 without losing anything? Or am I mistaken?
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because somebody gets level 2 before you start the 2nd camp. Doing a camp with spirit fire >>> not since it reduces armor in addition to being AOE. thats just one example though. obviously lee sin, elise, etc will do camps significantly faster at lvl 2 then lvl 1
its about minimizing the exp lost at top lane as much as possible, the faster you clear and TP up there and less xp you lose. riven in particular is annoying since her lvl 1 is godlike so she will almost always get an advantage in the standard double jungle trade since her lvl 1 will clear it super fast
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On October 13 2015 21:08 Scip wrote:Crossposting for continuing the Rammus discussion Show nested quote +On October 13 2015 13:18 killerdog wrote:On October 13 2015 08:35 Scip wrote:On October 13 2015 08:30 Ketara wrote: FotM + Tabi vs DMP is probably something deserving of math.
I'm not gonna do the math though, meow~ well FotM+Tabi vs DMP is only relevant until the point where DMP also gets neough money to get Ninja tabi. It's clearly going to give more combat stats after that until the point when you finish another value item but obviously I don't think the combat stat difference is high enough to justify building DMP in a lot of cases. Looking at it though it might be justifiable in a lot of cases too doe. I mean there's a 500 gold gap on both sides of tabi, dmp finishes 500g before fotm+tabi, and you get dmp+tabi 500g after that. I guess the income from fotm situationally makes that a larger gap, but it's still not quite like fotm+tabi is equal to dmp. (although dmp does have a pretty high combine cost, so you have another lull there.) I haven't tried it much, but the few times i did i found the ms and cc from dmp surprisingly useful if you finish it before laning ends. The ms makes your ganks scary even if you have to cancel your q (enemy dodging through minions) and if they're flashless, you can get an extra auto or two on them before they get away by delaying your taunt slightly. + the first auto is another 100 bonus damage, and you get 15 permanent ad from your passive on top of that, which adds up if you're trying to burst someone down in a gank/tower dive. how is dmp 500 gold before fotm and tabi when dmp costs 2750 FotM is 2200 and tabi is 675 2750-2200-675=-125 with targons passive it comes online at arguably very similiar time. Sure, the dmg isn't irrelevant (although it's only 12.5 AD, if we compare DMP vs. Fotm+Tabi it's only 6.25 AD). I think DMP is a fine buy but I personally would still usually prefer the FotM shield and other utilities. I mean, are we including boots now?
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On October 13 2015 22:32 Nos- wrote: how does the double jungle work? You share first camp experience, kill the buff red/blue buff monster and then let top laner take the smaller red/blue buff creeps? I think that makes both of you hit 2 right? Top takes solo xp/gold on small camp>get buff to 300 and backs.
This is also the hardest to fuck up unless you have a lot of aoe and aren't careful with the small creeps on blue/red. Also this is the fastest.
DJ and doing camps before going to lane has so much rng though. Until you lose 4 creeps while going top first or 0 vs 3 melee creeps bot you haven't experienced salt.
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United States37500 Posts
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