[Champion] Lulu
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Lulu doesn't really have bad matchups, if you can press alt+E. Also speaking about toplane Lulu, knowing when to use W is basically hardest thing, because with whimsey up you're rarely can be killed. Good job, should be pretty useful for newbies. Even though, I don't necessarily agree with lichbane as core, it's pretty much good in combo with ludens when you're just splitting, but considering how my Lulu games usually go, going morellos/grail into deathcap/ludens and then getting hourglass/deathcap or ludens is better, just because you can skip void staff in peeling comps, save ult for anyone else and just have all this ap to use. | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Only exception would be in a full ad team except yourself for the sorcs. Irelia definitely shits on lulu. Although I do feel that roa is superior to morelo/athene but could be just going too hard on the hype train. | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I would format runes/masteries/summoners together, and place them before item builds. You choose all these things before a game starts so it makes sense to put them together and separate them from decisions you have to make during the game (items). This also lets you reference rune pages properly when talking about item builds. As is you talk about runes during your item build section and its awkward because you don't talk about runes until after you reference them. The information in the item builds sections are good, but I think a little clunky and difficult to read and could be formatted better. Add some small pictures, some bbcode, some more line breaks blah blah. If you look at the bottom of my guide there's a link to a great post about how to use bbcode on TL. I would love to see some math discussions on item builds and how they work with different rune pages and such. It looks good though. I always wanted to learn how to play Lulu, I'm really bad at it. If the thread is good I'll guinea pig her for you when I get back for S6. | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Athenes vs Morello vs RoA. Sorc Shoes vs Lucidity. The efficacy of Void staff. I'm sure Void staff is very efficient as a damage item, but Lulu is a rare champion who values utility equal or more than damage while still occupying a solo lane. As such, what is the efficacy of Void staff in math vs say, a Liandry or a Lich Bane or a Ludens, or other items such as WotA, Twin Shadows or even Gunblade? And how do these choices play with different boots, runes and masteries? Rylais I think you can probably ignore on the basis that Lulu already has consistent, reliable slows. Note that I understand the reasoning behind these item choices from a gameplay analysis perspective, I understand that if you want damage a void staff will outdamage a twin Shadows. What I want is the math of exactly how much it outdamage it by, and at what point extra utility is worth lost damage. | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm not questioning its damage mind, its probably one of the best or maybe the best damage item. But I am questioning its efficiency. In a teamfights Lulu only has 2 damage spells, and one of those I assume is mostly used for the shield, not damage. As such, pen is helping an appallingly low number of her spellcasts. At the same time, you're getting 40% CDR, but only because you're using CDR runes and/or CDR boots. You have other options. If I were to get twin Shadows instead of Void, I could also take AP runes instead of CDR. Would I lose damage? Yes. But I'd gain utility through more movespeed, better shield/ult and the active. The best way to know how much of a tradeoff you're making there is to do the math and see exactly how much damage you're losing. Another good example is that you say Void is required and Lich Bane is optional. It may well be the other way around, since Void primarily adds damage to Q, and Lich Bane should get a proc on every Q, while also adding utility. I can help you out with this stuff when I get back to Thailand, but can't while I'm in Myanmar. I'd encourage you to spend a couple hours on it yourself though, it might make your own play better | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Also, does Ludens outdamage Void? If you can't auto Lich Bane is notsogud, but ludens is still pretigud. Another thing to remember is that %pen from Void works multiplicatively with flat pen from Sorc Shoes. If you're getting CDR shoes its going to reduce the effect of your Void. When I was doing Lux math, Void outdamage Ludens most of the time, but that was based on a champ with 3 damage skills. Lulu arguably has only like 1.5, so the math would be a lot closer for her. | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm suggesting that calling Void core and Ludens a luxury buy is possibly inferior to the other way around, and you'd need to do the math to confirm that. It's subtle enough that your game experience may be wrong, and its straightforward enough that you can actually prove with math which is superior. So, to figure it out for sure you need to crunch some numbers. Also, don't swear by what pros build. Pro builds are usually a good starting point, but while pros are amazing at actually playing the game, they often make mathematically inefficient item choices. They should have analysts running those figures for them, but many teams it seems either don't have that or the players don't listen. | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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739
Bearded Elder29876 Posts
Also #bigsorry but I had to change the OP image ^_^ | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If you want to do a support Lulu part of the guide, you can do what I did with support Lux, just be like "hey I don't play her support but if you find yourself in that situation here is a general idea without too much detail" I forced myself to play support Lux in normals for like 50 games or something (its bad) but nobody expects that level of commitment. I'd be happy to do some Lulu math when I get back to Thailand, but you'll have to wait till November | ||
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Let's presume that athene/Morello/RoA + hat + ludens is mandatory. 1 - you're never going to get two defensive items. I'm calling zhonya a defensive item, mind. 2 - if you get two offensive items its always going to be Lich Bane + Void staff. So if you get 1 offensive and 1 defensive, is there a situation in which you'd prefer Lich Bane over Void staff? Maybe for duelling / split pushing? But for duelling isn't 2 offensive generally superior? | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Lulu support isn't really complicated, it's one of most relaxing ways of playing game after Janna or spamming laugh with Nami, especially if you go with coin/sightstone/mobis/banner/harbinger/censer, rg or twin shadows. Also I have question. Why in the world, every toplane Lulu in my games in past month going tear, lol. | ||
krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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