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Certain abilities (immortal shields, corsair disruption web in co-op and I think cyclone's lock-on) have autocast on by default. I dislike this because it removes a lot of the need for micro, and because its very tedious to turn off auto-cast on each unit. If you have autocast turned off on all units of a certain type and they acquire a few new units of that type, you have to turn autocast back on for all units then you can turn it off again. Its very tedious. But personally, I just think it makes more sense to remove auto-cast on most abilities since it removes the need to micro (of course theres going to be people who get more usage out of the manual cast but I don't feel the gap is big enough)
Of course, units such as medivacs and even SCVs can keep their normal auto-cast. Suggestions to change things do not apply to them; It would be chaotic otherwise. Thoughts?
Poll: Should autocast be changed?Yes; all units with unecessary autocasts have it removed (57) 56% No; keep it the way it is (37) 36% Yes; all units spawn with auto-cast off (8) 8% 102 total votes Your vote: Should autocast be changed? (Vote): No; keep it the way it is
(Vote): Yes; all units spawn with auto-cast off
(Vote): Yes; all units with unecessary autocasts have it removed
Btw Vorazun's oracles in Co-op should totally have time-warp (with autocast off of course). They feel so empty and void (pun) of use in many situations and a niche use would be great. They're the kind of unit where time warp would make sense too.
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In the case of the immortal they actually made it more micro-able. It used to have a passive ability but now it's something you turn on manually. That being said they made it auto-cast when it gets hit so what's the point. I'm not a big fan of any auto-cast because it's the game playing itself. If something needs to be auto-cast then the unit or building needs to be adjusted or redesigned.
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MC has been seen manually casting the immortal shield.
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Please, no more "press button to get a buff " abilities. This is not micro. Either make them passives or just buff units accordingly. And leave autocast for warcraft 4 if it ever comes out.
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removing lock-on autocast would make cyclones completely useless.
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On November 13 2015 04:44 Nazara wrote:
Please, no more "press button to get a buff " abilities. This is not micro. Either make them passives or just buff units accordingly. And leave autocast for warcraft 4 if it ever comes out.
Yes, that is micro. You micro manage single units
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 13 2015 05:27 Heyjoray wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 04:44 Nazara wrote:
Please, no more "press button to get a buff " abilities. This is not micro. Either make them passives or just buff units accordingly. And leave autocast for warcraft 4 if it ever comes out. Yes, that is micro. You micro manage single units
Well some of us love micro when you don't have to press buttons on units but by using units you can be god. Like bio splitting, muta micro, blink micro. No one is awed by VR turn on the beam micro or MSC turn on the defense micro.
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On November 13 2015 05:35 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 05:27 Heyjoray wrote:On November 13 2015 04:44 Nazara wrote:
Please, no more "press button to get a buff " abilities. This is not micro. Either make them passives or just buff units accordingly. And leave autocast for warcraft 4 if it ever comes out. Yes, that is micro. You micro manage single units Well some of us love micro when you don't have to press buttons on units but by using units you can be god. Like bio splitting, muta micro, blink micro. No one is awed by VR turn on the beam micro or MSC turn on the defense micro. that's what I had in mind, but you explained it better
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Micro is good when it is tactical decisions (implying a multitude of possibilities ; you can be creative with it) instead of just pressing a button at the obvious moment the ability must be activated, which generally abilities susceptible to be put on autocast tend to be very close to. Imagine a "pull the trigger" ability on Marines  I would not call it micro because it doesn't involve tactics : you always want them to fire if they are in range. It would be a pure mechanic check on the player.
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I take issue with this thread because it sets a double standard for what is an acceptable and unacceptable micro burden. What is "necessary" autocast?
Of course, units such as medivacs and even SCVs can keep their normal auto-cast.
Why is it obvious that Medivacs should keep their autocast?
Well, to me, it seems ridiculous to have to heal each Marine individually because for most people that would be too hard and the skill required to do it would make the Medivac not worth building (for healing purposes).
I like the way that Immortals' barrier is right now. It triggers automatically once the shields run out. It's not too micro intensive in that it doesn't force you to enable the shield yourself, but it does promote micro in that good players with a few more APM will make the best advantage of that ability and pick up their Immortals once Barrier runs out.
Simply making every Protoss unit require some sort of really difficult micro is not acceptable. The race is already struggling.
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The only one I didnt' like was the corsair one and the phoenix one. For those, I wanted to maximize their efficiency, so I had to keep annoyingly turning them off.
other than that, I thought it added to the ease of the game, which will help most people who aren't in SC2 for hte multiplayer, but for the campaign.
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On November 13 2015 05:46 Nazara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 05:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 13 2015 05:27 Heyjoray wrote:On November 13 2015 04:44 Nazara wrote:
Please, no more "press button to get a buff " abilities. This is not micro. Either make them passives or just buff units accordingly. And leave autocast for warcraft 4 if it ever comes out. Yes, that is micro. You micro manage single units Well some of us love micro when you don't have to press buttons on units but by using units you can be god. Like bio splitting, muta micro, blink micro. No one is awed by VR turn on the beam micro or MSC turn on the defense micro. that's what I had in mind, but you explained it better
where does blink fall then?
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I find this thread very... 'missing' the point. Eh, I can't think a better way to phase it.
For the Immortal & Cyclone, auto-cast shouldn't be removed or be initially off. For the people who thinks a change is good for mirco reasons, my response to that is: the mirco reason should be enough to want to turn off those auto-cast, and if you find it too much of a hassel to turn it off, it's going to be worst for those who aren't as skilled when having to actually 'activate' the abilities or turn it on. A design change shouldn't be aimming to shafting the lesser skilled players when it should be the more skiled player to have the burden of more APM and time.
The Cosiar is a different story because placement of the ability is really important factor that auto-casting will probably screw the player up a lot.
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On November 13 2015 07:18 sabas123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2015 05:46 Nazara wrote:On November 13 2015 05:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 13 2015 05:27 Heyjoray wrote:On November 13 2015 04:44 Nazara wrote:
Please, no more "press button to get a buff " abilities. This is not micro. Either make them passives or just buff units accordingly. And leave autocast for warcraft 4 if it ever comes out. Yes, that is micro. You micro manage single units Well some of us love micro when you don't have to press buttons on units but by using units you can be god. Like bio splitting, muta micro, blink micro. No one is awed by VR turn on the beam micro or MSC turn on the defense micro. that's what I had in mind, but you explained it better where does blink fall then?
In point and click. Same as psionic storm, fungal etc. Where mouse precision and location matters. Hope you get the point without more explanation.
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What if you were able to choose in your personal settings which units have autocast on and off? It would remove turning off autocasted immortal barriers in game which frees up clicks for players who want it off.
The only ability I would argue should have autocast removed (apart from corsair) is the immortal barrier. Microing barrier would be similar to blink micro (unit low, press b) and it has creative applications (lead with immos, lift up after barriers). I suppose it doesn't really matter all too much since it can make microing and looking away from your army too risky, but to me I just feel like its the kind of ability that should be manual. Oh yeah and the void ray "micro" button is silly. It's not real micro and it's just tedious. What I was thinking is that it's damage ramps up the longer it attacks the same target without interruption, rewarding good positioning and focus-fire.
Yeah and autocast corsair is REALLY frustrating. Imagine autocasted fungals, storms or even time warps. I don't think there's any objections to removing that as an autocasted ability.
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On November 13 2015 02:59 GDI wrote:
In the case of the immortal they actually made it more micro-able. It used to have a passive ability but now it's something you turn on manually. That being said they made it auto-cast when it gets hit so what's the point. I'm not a big fan of any auto-cast because it's the game playing itself. If something needs to be auto-cast then the unit or building needs to be adjusted or redesigned.
If you go for manual Immortals shields, you avoid the obligatory ping the ability the enemy can do. So changing it from a passive to an autocast gives the enemy either more counterplay, or you the ability to use it manually to get more out of your unit.
Or in terms of the corsair its an -> keep them out of battle to not waste energy. Or make it manual to hit the spots.
Warcraft 3 had well designed autocast spells. But Warcraft 3 also was slower paced so turning autocast on/off was not a big bother.
So I am more then fine with this over passives. But I think some of the abilities should be off by default.
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The problem with your poll is that it lacks one option:
Give a possibility to any one kind of unit to switch the autocast on/off.
There. Solved your problem.
Some people want to train their micro - good for them and I get what motivates them, but it shouldn't be done at the cost of lower tier players who just want to have fun with the game, such us me. (unfortunately)
My favourite style of beating the campaign the first time was not massing one unit, but mixing all of them and watching what they can do in synergy. Something my skill ceiling wouldn't allow to without the autocast. I loved pushing with zealot/stalker/sentry/dt/immortal/phoenix'/VR and watching DT's stun towers, immortals being immortal and phoenix' lifting shit up in the air while I pressed Guardian shield on sentry before battle and occasionally blink with one or two stalkers. It's all I can do. And again, I made up my mind about my skills a long time ago. I just get too frustrated with 1v1 etc. You know what I'm talking about. But I still love me some Starcraft any day and I don't need to (or want to) train with every mode of the game. Co-op being my favourite as of few days ago.
Leave the micro for competitive multiplayer, or go with my idea of making it switchable somewhere.
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This post is oriented towards players that ENJOY micro-management as part of StarCraft.
What you and all those that agree with you (with the fact that there should be more micro) don`t understand is that there are also players, LIKE me that completely dislike the micro-management.
Therefore we can say that all the players of StarCraft can be divided into one of these 2 categories and in order to find the middle ground for both I suggest as such:
1. Co-op should have all units with all abilities in auto-cast possible and with the possibility to disable it also.
Therefore players like you can enjoy the co-op with micro and players like me can enjoy the macro of the game.
2. Competitive should have some abilities auto-castable but should focus also (but NOT fully) on micro-management.
Do you agree?
I believe that in this way everyone will be happy.
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EPT
