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Before all thing, i m a terran !!!!
What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?[/b][/u]
In tvz : to counter mutat. but there is no mutat in lotv because terran can make too easely liberator. And to defend bases in late game.
In tvp : to counter all in toss and help the bioball to survive after the stupid nerf of the marauder....
In tvt : no utility
What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
For toss : all toss unit wich can shoot it.
For zerg : zerg need fungal and corrupter to deal with liberator because it is too fast.
For terran : viking marine etc...
Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
Perfect like this. any comment.
Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
Perfect too
Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
It must be a support unit but now it is a support unit in early game and in late game you can win games with an army composed at 90% of liberator. This is a big problem.
Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
If we want to see mutat in zvt, liberator must be product on tech lab
Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
If you want to win in terran, you can play without liberator but if you want to win witout difficulties you must play liberator ^^
What do you think about its design in general?
It is most beautiful than the cyclone that looks like a Dalek of Doctor Who.... Cyclone sucks...
If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
Nothing it's a good unit. but I think it need to be nerf in siege mode and make less damange against mutat.
A blibli must nerf a little this unit because it is a hard counter of all unit and it is game breaker.
To conclude liberator is a good unit. I hope your next subject will be the cyclone because it must be removal for a bio unit !!!
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What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
Probably as a stable core unit against Protoss and to counter mutalisks and ultralisks vs Zerg and to counter tanks in TvT.
What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
Viking, Marine, Viper, Corruptor, Stalker, Carrier
Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
I think it should be locked somehow and armory didn't seem to be the solution. But I dislike the techlab upgrade for a reactor unit. My personal choice would be to test a fusion core requirement, which is similar to the armory requirement but doesn't have the same utility and doesn't unlock hellbats at the same time.
Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
I think it is OK, but small cost tweaks are always a nice tool for balance should problems arise.
Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
That obviously depends on the situation, but usually such a gasheavy unit will be played in combination with an established core composition like bio that can afford it, but isn't completely relying on it.
Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
At the moment I don't mind Terran having accessibility to more units easily. Ask me again when the game is more balanced and I'm dying to mass liberators 
Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
It doesn't fill a hole. I have no real clue why this unit is here. It is just what I've been saying that the siege tank should be, a siege unit with high main target damage.
What do you think about its design in general?
I don't like air to ground siege units. I think they are dumb and force air-play from the opponent and from yourself to protect them, which is just horrible for the game.
If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
Scrap it, amongst other units. SC2 doesn't need that many units, they just make other units reddundant by being better alternatives. At the end of the day high level play ends up with a small set of playable units again. The core to making more strategies viable is to balance the existing units better against each other, instead of having obvious superunits that you support with the right sidekick units for the given situation, while the other 3possible sidekick units are being unused.
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1. What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
Flying version of siege tank, anti mutalisk, early game harras
2. What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
Terran: widow mines, marines
Zerg: corruptor, viper?
Protoss: phoenix with range, tempest
3. Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
Yes
4. Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
More expensive.
5. Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
Should be support unit, or pure anti air, but now its core unit.
6. Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
No
7. Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
No. It overlap with siege tanks, widow mines, banshees, vikings.
8. What do you think about its design in general?
Buffed version of valkyrie from brood war.
9. If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
Anti air swarm unit or remove.
CONCLUSION: BUFF SIEGE TANKS
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What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
As mentioned, most likely a Siege unit, but in this it feels somewhat odd due to its relatively small siege area, even if it can fire at that area from a long range. It could work against Protoss deathballs (with good micro) but Blink Stalkers will have them for breakfast.
In TvZ they'll work great against Mutalisks and higher HP units such as Roaches.
Haven't seen them in TvT and doubt I will since Tank/Viking still rules the day there.
What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
Corruptors, Void Rays, Vikings for obvious stat reasons.
Mutalisks are a dicey choice for Zerg, which I actually like, giving Terran a different option than the Thor to deal with them.
Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
In its current state, yes, because camping behind the mineral line is lame and I play Terran myself.
Were the unit to be modified to make that less viable, it could do without the upgrade.
Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
For Bio the cost works since Bio is mostly mineral heavy, but in a Mech composition the 150 gas is tricky.
Do you get them instead of Tanks and risk the enemy army running out of the siege area?
Do you get them instead of Vikings and risk losing them to enemy air counters?
I would be interested to see a patch where it's more mineral heavy and less gas heavy. (say 200/100)
Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
Obviously a support unit as its ground attack is very limited and its air attack is crap vs anything that isn't a Mutalisk or Phoenix.
Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
Given its gas cost I don't see an issue with it being buildable without one.
To reactor them out you need 300 gas for each cycle which is immense.
The reactor does grant the ability to bring them out in larger numbers faster when you want to use them to deal with Mutalisks, which can also come out in large numbers quickly so I like it.
Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
Air wise, its primary role for me is provide a different way to handle Mutalisks.
Thors are slow, clunky and Mutalisks can fly circles around them.
Other than tanking Banelings they don't add much more to a TvZ bio army, but the Liberator can switch to ground mode once the Mutalisks are dealt with, providing some support.
I've yet to really use them in TvP, trying to go for them with the current warp prism + adapt meta is tricky.
What do you think about its design in general?
I like the idea, but the execution feels a little off due to having yet another anchoring unit and it having only a single area where it can attack. This just feels wonky and I fear that with time Protoss and Zerg players will learn to easily navigate around it.
If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
Defender mode can only work above ground (impassable ground is okay), Blizzard could add some vertical thruster visuals or something to highlight this.
Range slightly decreased to say 11.
Ground area restriction removed, or it increases every second the Liberator remains stationary until it fully reaches all ground with the Liberator's reach.
OR
The ground area can be retargetted whilst in Defender mode with a short cooldown and switch animation.
Personal preference:
I'm not too fond of another anchor unit, the Siege Tank already does this and it doesn't do very well outside of TvT.
We have so many mobility and harassment options these days that anchoring a unit just feels weird.
Constantly switching modes feels clunky. I wouldn't mind a lategame upgrade (maybe requiring Fusion Core) that would allow Defender mode Liberators to move very slowly (at say the old Overlord speed).
If the Liberator could only go into Defender mode above ground, I see no reason why it shouldn't be able to attack structures (perhaps with reduced damage vs structures).
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On October 01 2015 17:24 FromtheAbysS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 14:36 ChristianS wrote:
For instance, pre-patch (that is, when defender mode didn't need an upgrade), I tried making liberators pretty quickly in TvP. A lot killed me in TvP pre-patch, but one of the things that absolutely destroyed that build was a blink stalker rush. You'd have 4 or even 6 liberators out, but you just couldn't kill the stalkers. You could cover the whole blinkable cliff in defender circles, but they could just walk up your ramp, blink past the circles, and start shooting at you from out of range. Yeah. I had the same experience so many times ! Blink stalker just crush liberators, they jump out of the circle and kill them all. So I don't think it is a go to unit vs P, not at all. The only reason to build liberator is that it is a reasonable early game harass unit. It Makes the job in a mineral line, but I don't agree with those who say it is an ultimate defender unit. Maybe 5-6 liberators to defend a B4 or B5 far from the main but that's all. Vs air units, the 7 x2 damage is good but as good as Thor (6 (+1) x4) I am a little bit disappointed with this unit because I think it is fun, I like design but there are few reasons to build it.
put WM or any other support for Liberators
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On October 01 2015 18:41 shin_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 17:24 FromtheAbysS wrote:On October 01 2015 14:36 ChristianS wrote:
For instance, pre-patch (that is, when defender mode didn't need an upgrade), I tried making liberators pretty quickly in TvP. A lot killed me in TvP pre-patch, but one of the things that absolutely destroyed that build was a blink stalker rush. You'd have 4 or even 6 liberators out, but you just couldn't kill the stalkers. You could cover the whole blinkable cliff in defender circles, but they could just walk up your ramp, blink past the circles, and start shooting at you from out of range. Yeah. I had the same experience so many times ! Blink stalker just crush liberators, they jump out of the circle and kill them all. So I don't think it is a go to unit vs P, not at all. The only reason to build liberator is that it is a reasonable early game harass unit. It Makes the job in a mineral line, but I don't agree with those who say it is an ultimate defender unit. Maybe 5-6 liberators to defend a B4 or B5 far from the main but that's all. Vs air units, the 7 x2 damage is good but as good as Thor (6 (+1) x4) I am a little bit disappointed with this unit because I think it is fun, I like design but there are few reasons to build it. put WM or any other support for Liberators
WM is good against blink openings? Since when?
In general, yes, the thing to do is to have something under the liberators that can attack. Then you use the liberators to control where your opponent is allowed to stand (a bit like a forcefield, actually, but with more interaction), understanding all along that your opponent probably won't walk into the circle so you'll have to do damage with your other units. I don't think you should never make them against Protoss, but they'll need marines or something underneath them that will actually do most of your damage.
Against a blink opening specifically, they're terrible. WM's aren't great against blink openings, among other things because you can blink out of the way of the mine and then it's out of commission for a real long time. I was just noting to all the people that seem to be inflating their utility a bit that unlike tanks, they have fairly little utility in staying alive early game, where tanks are amazing for that purpose.
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Don't add air units Blizzard, liberate us from this all overlapping piece of shit.
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I am Zerg so these are my answers
What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
Harassment, countering mutas, protecting tanks from ultras
What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
Zerg - Ravager, later on corruptor
Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
I will only say that I haven't seen a single hellbat / liberator push since they changed the liberators requirements. I haven't examined this in great detail so I don't have a huge opinion on this. Weighing this against a tech lab requirement for example. I didn't have a huge problem against hellbat liberator to begin with, but it felt a little strong, so either an upgrade or a techlab requirement - something like this, does seem needed.
Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
For now it seems reasonable until more information on the lategame is gathered
Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
More support, though against mutas it can become a core unit. But I don't really know since I've seen very little use of cyclones in the beta so far, and that unit could change the way Terran works on a fundamental level. So who knows.
Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
Not much opinion, though I'm leaning toward they should have a techlab. They shut down muta harass too easily with the reactor, and having a research upgrade doesn't solve this while it pushes early aggression back moreso than a techlab requirement does; while the techlab requirement balances the stream of production better, which is the main problem with liberator pushes is they can get out of control too quickly.
Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
It definitely helps against mutas and helps against ultras when you have tanks. Since marauders are weak here, that's fairly useful. Are also more mobile so they can siege up places quickly. Though cyclones are also supposed to be strong against ultras and are also mobile. But I haven't seen much cyclone use. In any case, yes, it's a distinct unit.
What do you think about its design in general?
I think it's probably Blizzard best attempt at adding to an already fully fleshed out race.
If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
Probably I'd reduce the casting range of the circle
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1.Anti muta/phoenix, zone control and all-ins.
2. For Zerg I would say corrupters but hydras are even better if you can backstab the liberators(walking around/drops/nydus). For Terran I'd say vikings or marines if they can outposition like hydras. For Protoss I'd say carriers or possibly stalkers, same as hydras/marines.
3. Yes I believe so unless its defender mode is nerfed in someway that makes its all-in and harass utility less pronunced.
4. I'm undecided on this issue, too hard of a call to make at the moment.
5. Definitely a support unit, as a massable unit it should be counterable by air units that are indivudally stronger like corrupter/carrier/viking/battlecruiser. This is as it should be
6.Depends on its strength as all-in/harass, now when the upgrade is added I believe its fine without a tech-lab but it depends.
7. It overlaps a lot, however I believe that is a good thing, its supposed to be a situational support unit that you can always get a few and use well regardless of the situation. I really like that line of thought, I feel it could be similar to how you some games gets 1 infestor, 1 raven or 1-2 tanks. Its getting a unit that you can use regardless for the utility/safety it provides. This makes the game more fun to play and watch and adds more things to do when playing and appreciating when watching. Its great to be used as AA or zone control but I would not like to see it in mass. I'd like the game to steer away from stale compositions of all roaches/stalkers/marines and deathballs and instead move towards skirmishes with a great variation of composition.
8. As a utility unit I love it, but for some reason it is not being used as such and therefore I dislike the way its used at the moment.
9. Undecided.
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I lost count of the times the word 'topic' was used in the OP
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I hate all units that replace old units and are designed with less decision making. So yeah Liberator die like the Tempest.
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1.What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
Complements mech army well in terms of AA, especially vs Zerg where mech is vulnerable to Muta early. Thors are slow, but Liberators are fairly fast and can defend well against Muta. Later on once the air threat is taken care of Liberators can act as a siege unit and allow the rest of the army to move into place while they zone out space.
2.What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
Zerg: Corruptors, Vipers w/ parasitic bomb. I don't think Hydras can close the distance with Hellbats/Tanks in the army composition.
Protoss: Tempests can outrange the siege mode, Carriers are good. Blink Stalkers might be good early against Liberator rushes but like Hydras I don't think they'll be able to get in close enough once Hellbats/Tanks are out.
Terran: Vikings. There's really no other way to engage the siege mode. I don't see the AA mode being used in this matchup.
3.Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
Yes. It's very strong and provides added functionality to a unit that's already got great functionality out of the gate (dedicated anti-muta unit). Without the research, Liberator rushes might be a bit too strong against non-air openers.
4.Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
It's hard to say what the cost should be. Cost can stay the same and stats can change. Or stats can stay the same and cost can change. I'm open to either, as long as it's balanced.
5.Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
My gut feeling is that it SHOULD be a support unit... something to add to a mech army to help with AA.
I think we will know it's too strong if people start basing their armies around it.
6.Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
They should require a tech lab. The versatility and somewhat cheap cost make reactoring them out a little silly IMO.
7.Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
Terran mech lacks an early answer to Muta... but that said Terrans in HotS are doing just fine against Zerg.
I think against Zerg you'll see them used against Muta and against Protoss they will fill the role that most meching Terrans would like the Siege Tank to occupy: high single target damage from long range.
8.What do you think about its design in general?
I don't like how big it is (looks wise) and I feel that its role overlaps with the Tank too much (air to ground mode). I think for 150/150 (same cost as a disruptor) it's providing too much value.
9.If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
I don't think the ground attack needs to exist. With the Immortal nerf, Colossus nerf, and the introduction of the Cyclone, I think mech vs. Protoss is more viable than ever. And vs. Zerg Liberator AA and Tanks synergize well.
HUGE EDIT - THE CIRCLE SHOULD NOT GIVE VISION.... make them require some sort of spotter like they do for Siege Tanks and Protoss does for Tempests.
TLDR; This unit should have the ground attack removed and be renamed the Valkyrie, but I just don't think it needs to exist...
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What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
Anti mass muta
To prevent deathball
What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
ravager (tho inefficient; and sometimes impossible in early game due to long range), corruptor/viper later
stalkers, voidray
Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
yes, from fusion core
Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
cost yes, but build time could be increased (considering it's reactored)
Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
support
Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?tech lab would be better
Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
overlaps, but not that hard
What do you think about its design in general?
a little shabby, because it creates many opportunities very early, especially vsZ, where he needs to defend vs too many possible openings: hellbats, banshees, tank drops, widow mine drops, early bio pushes, early air harass, early ground harass. Some of them should be pushed later, or easier to scout, or less powerful, or less cost efficient.
If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
reduce the AG attack range to ~10, reduce damage to less than 1-shot hydras;
reduce their movement speed: 10-15%
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Serious question though...
Does mech really need an anti-Muta unit? Muta are basically the only thing that Zergs have to play against Mech and delay bases, harass, etc. Does Terran really need an anti-Muta unit that ALSO one-shots Hydras?
That seems a bit silly...
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36920 Posts
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DinoMight Profile Blog PM Joined June 2012 United States2510 Posts
6 minutes ago #34
Serious question though...
Does mech really need an anti-Muta unit? Muta are basically the only thing that Zergs have to play against Mech and delay bases, harass, etc. Does Terran really need an anti-Muta unit that ALSO one-shots Hydras?
That seems a bit silly...
unless they buff SH to be a viable harass unit. CC killer.
or reduce the Nydus cost to be viable as harass.
they can do stuff, if they want the game to be balanced. but I'm not so sure they do. think about other Blizz games, and the rotation they use for buff/nerf classes. nevertheless, SC should be the one franchise to NOT receive the same treatment. SC is supposed to be the ultimate tool of measuring a gamer's skill.
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I mean think about it...
For 150/150 you can have a Disruptor, or a Liberator.
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Austria24417 Posts
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As a random Archon GM player, here are my thoughts:
What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
Liberators were great as early game harass, but now not so much. There will be a couple timing pushes with them, and they are fantastic killing muta balls.
What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
Protoss - early game requires a couple blink stalkers or a well placed pylon for the MSC to overcharge. Later, either ignore them or engage with carrier / tempest.
Zerg - Early game requires a decent creep spread, a spore at each base, and 1-2 ravagers. Later in the game corrupters are good vs low numbers, ling runbys with a ling/bling/hydra core with a fight before the mass siege up.
Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
It should not be a researchable upgrade. The early game impact is too small for a heavy early investment, cutting down the nearly worthless harass possible and is also easily thwarted by a couple pieces of static D or a dedicated AA flyer.
Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
If the liberators require research to unlock, then 150/150 is far too much. They don't provide all that much excess value to your army en masse unless dealing with a mass air opponent or a ling / bling / x opponent where you can snipe banelings. If the upgrade cost is removed, the high price (150/150) is necessary to limit their early game push potential.
Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
Liberators are definitely a support unit
Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
It seems fine to me as the general transition is directly into medivacs with a couple vikings.
Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
While it does overlap with other units in the terran arsenal, it fills several roles.
1. It is good versus mobbed air
2. It's a flying siege tank with shorter range and 1HKO instead of splash
3. It can harass on its own, but cannot do game ending damage
What do you think about its design in general?
Meh, it's an interesting early game unit but it really doesn't have amazing presence in late game armies unless you're facing mass air.
If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
Revert to armory for the unlock ability.
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Silver Zerg here. Just my thoughts but letting you guys know it's from an amateur
1.What strategic use do you think Liberators will have in LotV?
Plenty. Drone harass, base siege or defense, extra damage to air, etc.
2.What units (from all three races) would you say are best equipped to deal with Liberators?
I originally thought ravagers were the right counter to liberators, but Terrans are now getting better at microing their liberators to avoid corrosive bile. Ex. when an engagement starts, Terrans won't siege their liberators until after the ravager uses corrosive bile. So ravagers don't really counter liberators anymore, rather they create a stalematel: Zerg can't use corrosive bile and Terran can't siege. One interesting thing, though, is that a player with good micro can weasel themselves out of this ex. a Zerg player can corrosive bile and then run away while the liberators siege.
3.Do you think Defender Mode should be a researchable upgrade?
As a Zerg I don't think it really matters. If it is not researchable, I'll get roaches when I see a starport since I'll need ravagers to deal with banshee/medivacs anyways.
4.Is the current unit cost (150/150?) in a good place, or should Liberators be more/less expensive?
I think that it's in a good place. The high cost prevents a Terran from massing up and, if used well, it's definitely worth the cost.
5.Do you see the Liberator as more of a support unit, or a core unit that you should build around?
I think a bit of both. It has high damage output and it can definitely hold it's own with it's anti-air, so it gives the terran a lot of space to work. At the same time, if a terran were to go mech, he may rely on siege tanks more than liberators so the liberator would just serve as a support unit in this case.
6.Do you agree that Liberators should be built without an attached tech lab?
I'm not sure. I think they should put the liberator in a place in the tech tree where it would be a good complement to bio play. Whether that's armory or tech lab I'm not sure.
7.Does the current state of the unit fill a missing hole in the Terran arsenal or does it overlap with others?
I wouldn't say that it fills a missing hole, but that it opens up a new realm of options. It's similar to ravager in that because it is such a great support unit, it opens up a new world of different timings for the Terran.
8.What do you think about its design in general?
I love it. I think it's positional nature makes it a strong tactical unit. Also it opens up options for the zerg to micro against with Ravagers. I think it'll be real fun to play with and against in the future.
9.If you could make any changes to the Liberator, which would it be?
Decrease anti-air damage output by either decreasing dps or decreasing splash radius. It's kind of crazy against mutas and phoenixes. If the splash radius was decreased, it would be nice cuz then I'd be able to spread out my mutas to better deal with it.
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EPT
