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It's funny. I played both WOL and HOTS for years with Chronoboost (I play protoss), and I never had a single complaint about it being in the game. In fact, I don't think I ever even questioned whether it should be in the game or not.
Until one day during the LOTV beta, Blizzard removed Chrono. My initial thoughts were: "Wow, that is a brave move by Blizzard! Such a fundamental change. They have guts. I'm glad to see that they are willing to make big changes for the benefit of the game." I was really impressed. Didn't know if it was good or bad, just impressed that they would try something so drastic.
Then I played. And I LOVED IT!!! I didn't know how nice it felt to not play with Chrono until it was gone. Timings became more predictable. I could focus more on my army, buildings, research. It also made me feel that I could really start to improve. You see, lower level players like myself, probably use Chrono (and to an extent Mules), after making a mistake or falling behind. It felt like a crutch to me now. For example: "Oh crap, he has DTs, CHRONO OUT THE OBSERVER!!!" As opposed to, scouting well and knowing that my opponent is probably going DTs.
I feel like Chrono and Mules essentially bail you out if you screw up. And therefore it's harder to learn and get better.
Bottom line, I was enjoying the game so much more!
The game was imbalanced of course. But from a design perspective, I just loved it. I was looking forward to the next patch, that would (hopefully) have some number/cost/time tweaks to help balance the game out further.
It never happened.
The very next patch Blizzard released saw the reintroduction of Macro Boosters in a different form. Automated Macro, sort-of. I hated it. And it killed my desire to play. I loved having no Chrono, but I disliked having my Chrono automated.
So, I made that poll.
Which I would have never done if Blizzard hadn't teased me with a game patch that I fell in love with.
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Game was fun while it lasted
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@agamemnonsc2: macro boosters were discussed a lot at game release (or beta) and I remember there were people against it but others said Sc2 is easy game so this needs to be in it so it is closer to BW and that was the end of it.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On September 20 2015 17:41 -Archangel- wrote:
@agamemnonsc2: macro boosters were discussed a lot at game release (or beta) and I remember there were people against it but others said Sc2 is easy game so this needs to be in it so it is closer to BW and that was the end of it.
Back then sc2 was all 1 base, 2 base. LOTV without macro boosters is more mechanically demanding than WOL was with them
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On September 21 2015 01:27 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 17:41 -Archangel- wrote:
@agamemnonsc2: macro boosters were discussed a lot at game release (or beta) and I remember there were people against it but others said Sc2 is easy game so this needs to be in it so it is closer to BW and that was the end of it. Back then sc2 was all 1 base, 2 base. LOTV without macro boosters is more mechanically demanding than WOL was with them
Yes, in fact isn't the reason they tried Macro Removal because the Koreans feel like LOTV is just too hard? I may be wrong.
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I feel like you cant compare injects to chrono or calldown. If you give zerg (which I play) Auto inject, isnt it the equivalent of giving protoss instant warpgates whenever they need it? Or instant barracks? Roughly anyways. I just dont think its a good idea to remove it.
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Scrap chronoboost if you want, but please just throw that bastard version to the bin. Either HotS or nothing, but not that automated shit.
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On September 22 2015 04:43 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Scrap chronoboost if you want, but please just throw that bastard version to the bin. Either HotS or nothing, but not that automated shit.
Yep, it's worse gameplay wise and not really easy to use.
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On September 22 2015 04:46 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 04:43 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Scrap chronoboost if you want, but please just throw that bastard version to the bin. Either HotS or nothing, but not that automated shit. Yep, it's worse gameplay wise and not really easy to use.
Man we start to agree on a lot of things 
I agree it's even more clumbersome to use than the current HotS one which was pretty intuitive. I don't think that was the goal.
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On September 22 2015 04:49 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 04:46 CheddarToss wrote:On September 22 2015 04:43 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Scrap chronoboost if you want, but please just throw that bastard version to the bin. Either HotS or nothing, but not that automated shit. Yep, it's worse gameplay wise and not really easy to use. Man we start to agree on a lot of things I agree it's even more clumbersome to use than the current HotS one which was pretty intuitive. I don't think that was the goal.
Yes.  But, I do believe that despite all the shortcomings Protoss is going in the right direction. My first "aha moment" was when I saw Puck duke it out with a Zerg with Oracle/Stasis Traps and Blink Stalkers. Man whenever a Protoss uses this comp, the games end up being so action packed, multipronged and micro intensive. It is beautiful to see. In general I love that I don't feel forced to go either Blink or Robo every single game. Adepts, Disruptors and more versatile air (better Oracle spells and faster Carriers) have freed up Protoss from the shackles of Blink timings/all-ins, Robo and Deathballs.
As for Chrono: One thing that I feel is being overlooked in the macro mech. discussion is that the new Chrono can't be banked and poured into critical upgrades like the old one could. This makes Protoss more vulnerable to tech switches.
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On September 22 2015 05:19 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 04:49 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 22 2015 04:46 CheddarToss wrote:On September 22 2015 04:43 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Scrap chronoboost if you want, but please just throw that bastard version to the bin. Either HotS or nothing, but not that automated shit. Yep, it's worse gameplay wise and not really easy to use. Man we start to agree on a lot of things I agree it's even more clumbersome to use than the current HotS one which was pretty intuitive. I don't think that was the goal. As for Chrono: One thing that I feel is being overlooked in the macro mech. discussion is that the new Chrono can't be banked and poured into critical upgrades like the old one could. This makes Protoss more vulnerable to tech switches.
This is so important actually. The current semi automated version just takes all depth away. Banking chronos was actually one of the most interesting things to do.
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DK sees all these polls and suddenly realizes what went wrong with SC2 since the beginning of WOL and why he has lost so many players in the course. Still they are probably too lazy to change what is required. And there is anyway only few time left. So they probably go the easy way and keep mm on hots level.
Ppl should finally realize tho that SC2 without mm has a higher skill ceiling than with. ^^
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Starcraft 2 is a better game without macro mechanics. Blizzard looks at macro mechanics in terms of "freed up clicks" and not in terms of the horrible side effects macro mechanics have on the overall flow of the game. That is where they've gone wrong.
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On September 22 2015 06:38 coolman123123 wrote:
Starcraft 2 is a better game without macro mechanics. Blizzard looks at macro mechanics in terms of "freed up clicks" and not in terms of the horrible side effects macro mechanics have on the overall flow of the game. That is where they've gone wrong.
I tend to agree. I'll always regret they didn't pull out the big change (removal of macro mechanics) on the first day of the beta. Doing it when there is a little less than three months remaining was bound to fail.
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What about these suggestions:
MULE:
Instead of a MULE you call down an SCV. The SCV still costs supply but may be free (in terms of mineral cost). This way you can come back after being harassed, but in the late game you still wont get an edge because of the supply cap.
Spawn Larva:
Instead of instantly spawining 4 Larva after a set amount of time the Spawn Larva ability becomes a channeled ability that speeds up the natural larva generation of the hatchery. This way queens can use up all excess energy they have over time to speed up your macro without any sudden bursts in production. Only 1 Queen can use this ability per hatchery at a time, but the channeling costs more energy per second then the energy regeneration of Queens. This way you can have more then one queen per hatchery and still see a benefit.
Thoughts?
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Today I played lotv zerg (My main is Protoss though), and I found I like new zerg inject mechanics very much! Makes it more comfortable to learn zerg gameplay, and still rewards hard-working players. :D Good job, blizzard!
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Thanks BisuDagger, your knife is sharp!
I think the shift click is bad design, I'm personally not a fan. Auto was better, zerg still has to manage many creep tumors which is a pain in the ass.
For the people out there arguing that inject is so simple, mule takes about .5 seconds. Hold E and spam, old chrono took some attention.
These kind of arguments feel like when people were freaking out about drops at hatchery. That was never anywhere close to op, but you could never tell that by reading there threads.
*I think MM could be fun if it mimicked the rewards system of reload in gears of war. If you fuck up you get punished, if you play safe middle ground you get standard, but if you try to hit that special small reload zone you get a big boost.
Would prob be too hard to balance though.
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On September 22 2015 06:13 LSN wrote:
DK sees all these polls and suddenly realizes what went wrong with SC2 since the beginning of WOL and why he has lost so many players in the course. Still they are probably too lazy to change what is required. And there is anyway only few time left. So they probably go the easy way and keep mm on hots level.
Ppl should finally realize tho that SC2 without mm has a higher skill ceiling than with. ^^
More like DK sees all these polls (many showing consensus), realizes what is wrong and does the exact opposite because he's an egomaniac who perceives that he is being dictated and persecuted by the community.
Or he could just be lazy. Or maybe a combination of both.
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Just a reminder:
The polls in this thread are still active, and a chance for you to be heard by the dev team. I hope.
Please vote!
(Over 1,600 votes on one poll so far.)
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Its funny how before Blizzard brought the chrono/mule/inject no one was talking or even thinking about. It was all about the economy model.
Now the existence of the macro boosters is the big factor holding SC2 back and preventing "the fun". I'm calling bulshit.
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EPT
