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So if you're like me you might enjoy the direction LOTV had taken concerning macro mechanics, but you also think auto inject is somewhat condescending and unintuitive. It's pretty unprecedented to have a mechanic like it be automatically done for you, and it's clumsy.
For example, a queen chasing down some air units might make an inject pit stop and let it escape. Perhaps it chased something away from your hatchery and missed 2 injects because you didn't put it back in the hatchery radius and assumed your injects were being automatically done. Also, you can't seem to be able to move it away fast enough to spread creep before it autoinjects straight out of the hatch.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/heXOFzv.png)
Yes you can turn it off but its still a weird switch flip as opposed to an ability. Cleary blizz wants to keep the queens in so they can be targeted down by the opponent as opposed to having them come from the hatchery. Why not just create a zerg "larva reactor" as an add on to the hatchery? Call it a cerberate and let it be sniped.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cc89Nmw.jpg)
This would also help keep queens from tying up supply for the zerg late game. Tell me what you guys think.
Poll: Opinion on autoinject?I would prefer the hatchery to spawn extra larva (98) 42% I want all old macro mechanics back (52) 23% Autoinject is cool (50) 22% I want to manually inject for my 2 larva (21) 9% I would like a zerg reactor add on (10) 4% 231 total votes Your vote: Opinion on autoinject? (Vote): Autoinject is cool
(Vote): I would prefer the hatchery to spawn extra larva
(Vote): I would like a zerg reactor add on
(Vote): I want all old macro mechanics back
(Vote): I want to manually inject for my 2 larva
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Like Lokwo said and others, best way to fix this is.
- 5 larvas at hatchery, faster spawn rate.
Also to make queens a defensive unit and better.
Give queens an ability that allows them to shoot faster and move faster for 20-30 sec.
That way you get Zerg macro and a defensive queen that can be used early game and late game
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I like a suggestion I read in another thread: Make Larva Inject a channeled ability that needs to be continuously cast by a queen for faster larva spawn rate. As long as the queen is channeling she is periodically losing energy.
This way you would still have to manually click the hatchery, but once you have ordered a queen to inject larva the queen is doing it non-stop.
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On August 25 2015 05:56 RoomOfMush wrote:
I like a suggestion I read in another thread: Make Larva Inject a channeled ability that needs to be continuously cast by a queen for faster larva spawn rate. As long as the queen is channeling she is periodically losing energy.
This way you would still have to manually click the hatchery, but once you have ordered a queen to inject larva the queen is doing it non-stop.
That is one of the better ideas. Then defensively you need to make her stop, if you want to save her against harass.
The only reason Hatchery don't have better spawn rate, is so that there's still opportunity to snipe Queens and something to make the Queen stay at home, instead of wandering around like Overlords.
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On August 25 2015 05:44 DeepBurrow wrote:
Like Lokwo said and others, best way to fix this is.
- 5 larvas at hatchery, faster spawn rate.
This is just a big zerg buff. The queen still exists to limit that.
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Auto inject is dumb but I like how it forces macro hatches.
Let's be clear too, it's a straight up nerf to larvae, I reliably inject well all the way into the 7 minute mark, thats a straight loss of like 35 + larvae
But yes, I hate how when I do creep Queens if I forget to turn it off they make a random inject pit stop and stop doing what I tell them.
Just remove autocast, screw all of these complex buff the Queen/Buff inject/Change inject, just remove the autocast lol let a nerf be a nerf.
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Not sure why they feel the need for injects at all. Balance the amount of larva with the spawning time and force macro hatcheries that way. We made macro hatcheries in BW, I see no harm in needing them to balance zerg potential in SC2.
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On August 25 2015 06:26 ][-][eretic wrote:
Not sure why they feel the need for injects at all. Balance the amount of larva with the spawning time and force macro hatcheries that way. We made macro hatcheries in BW, I see no harm in needing them to balance zerg potential in SC2.
I agree with this 100%. Why can't Blizzard see logical solutions like this?
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On August 25 2015 05:44 DeepBurrow wrote:
Like Lokwo said and others, best way to fix this is.
- 5 larvas at hatchery, faster spawn rate.
Also to make queens a defensive unit and better.
Give queens an ability that allows them to shoot faster and move faster for 20-30 sec.
That way you get Zerg macro and a defensive queen that can be used early game and late game
This is a fine idea but Blizz seems intent on keeping the larva buff killable by the opponent as opposed to letting the hatch do it. This is why I proposed the reactor thingy. Channeling is also a better solution to autocast. Everything is a better solution than autocast lol
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Russian Federation66 Posts
I want:
1. queens from larva (like a dron for a hatch); - it will cut some temp of zerg, but enable queen+hatch or multi-queen productions what are much more interesting.
2. make queens "armored" - they are already 175hp unit (more than roach, stalkrt, tank) with 1 armor (as most "armored" units).
3. make injection increase rate of larva spawning by 75% (same values) instead of just create larva at the end; And i like it to be "channeled".
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On August 25 2015 06:26 ][-][eretic wrote:
Not sure why they feel the need for injects at all. Balance the amount of larva with the spawning time and force macro hatcheries that way. We made macro hatcheries in BW, I see no harm in needing them to balance zerg potential in SC2.
Yea, this would also be nice, Starcraft balance changes should be all about simplicity and elegance.
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On August 25 2015 06:20 jpg06051992 wrote:
Auto inject is dumb but I like how it forces macro hatches.
Let's be clear too, it's a straight up nerf to larvae, I reliably inject well all the way into the 7 minute mark, thats a straight loss of like 35 + larvae
But yes, I hate how when I do creep Queens if I forget to turn it off they make a random inject pit stop and stop doing what I tell them.
Just remove autocast, screw all of these complex buff the Queen/Buff inject/Change inject, just remove the autocast lol let a nerf be a nerf.
It's a nerf, but only when viewed within carefully constructed conditions. Viewed within context of all the other changes, it's not a nerf, but basically works out to be a buff.
That last bit is probably what needs to happen, at this point.
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What if injects were removed altogether? would that be such a bad thing? Here are some proposed buffs to compensate for the larva nerf:
1. force zerg to expand more or use macro hatches to compensate for lack of larva. perhaps reduce cost of hatcheries to 250 or even 200.
2. buff the queen to help defend multiple bases. I always liked the concept of being able to burrow between bases as a teleport to defend harassment but that's not necessary (but would be cool). Rather, queens spawn with 50 energy so they can drop 2 tumors at once to link bases and increase map control early on. This 50 energy could also be useful in defending timing attacks and being able to transfuse right out of the gate.
2A. queen should be armored or given more health or something to make it a harder unit to deal with. With less larva, zerg will need a unit to be a defensive threat that doesn't require precious larva such as drones for spines/spores.
2B. If the queen is too strong, you could force this unit to only travel on creep, meaning it physically cannot move on ground without creep. What this does is also prevent mass queens from becoming too strong, though with enough creep spread, it could still be possible with creep highways from overlords.
3. Hatcheries start the game with 3 larva but can maintain a max of 4 larva
3A. Canceled units in production automatically spawn 1 larva (cannot exceed 4 larva)
zerg has always been a race that lives or dies by the larva spent because canceling is irreversible and units/drones all come from the same place. It's just an idea, I wouldn't mind if none of this was implemented, just food for thought.
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I am in favor of removing autocrat inject as well. It doesn't sit well with me as fitting into the game; and I'd prefer the macro hatch/larva spawn rework since it seems the best flavor wise, and would require changing build orders and the macro concept of play for Zerg too, as removing the MULE and Chronoboost has done for P & T.
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Better solution
Hatchery generates up to 3 larva (as normal), can hold up to 7 (as opposed to 19).
Spawn Larva is not autocast, but
+ only takes 1-5 seconds
- costs 50 energy and gives 4 larva
This way larva stay "in the queen" and snipable until you actually use them, and you can use them quickly.
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Removing injects entirely would be quite elegant. It also would open up new possibilities for the queen.
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On August 25 2015 06:09 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2015 05:56 RoomOfMush wrote:
I like a suggestion I read in another thread: Make Larva Inject a channeled ability that needs to be continuously cast by a queen for faster larva spawn rate. As long as the queen is channeling she is periodically losing energy.
This way you would still have to manually click the hatchery, but once you have ordered a queen to inject larva the queen is doing it non-stop. That is one of the better ideas. Then defensively you need to make her stop, if you want to save her against harass. The only reason Hatchery don't have better spawn rate, is so that there's still opportunity to snipe Queens and something to make the Queen stay at home, instead of wandering around like Overlords.
I think one way to make it more interesting would be to have the hatchery gain some type of points say something along 4 seconds of continuous injecting for 1 point and it takes 5 points then the hatchery spawns larvae (or something similar to that but adjusted for # of points needed for larvae and time per point.)
If the queen is interupted then the hatchery will not get the points it needs. for the next 5 or 10 seconds the hatchery will keep the points it has and then begin losing points until a queen starts injecting again.
Thus even attacking the queen without killing it still hurts the zerg player, but a good zerg player will go back every 3 or 4 seconds and inject for 1/2 a second before running the queen around.
This could create some exciting harrasment for both sides
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Turn off auto inject NEEEEEDS to be a options menu "turn on or off" option!!! (not in game option)
As a gm zerg in hots, and playing sc2 for 5 years with out stopping, nothing is more frustrating that having my queens inject for me... It literally tilts me.
So I turn them off each time I have queens pop. This is annoying.
What if I want to tumor first??? (such as zvz, so I can get creep up in time to fully wall off vs ling bane all ins)
guess what. You can't, the queen injects before you can stop it lol.
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On August 25 2015 05:26 Little-Chimp wrote:
Yes you can turn it off but its still a weird switch flip as opposed to an ability. Cleary blizz wants to keep the queens in so they can be targeted down by the opponent as opposed to having them come from the hatchery. Why not just create a zerg "larva reactor" as an add on to the hatchery? Call it a cerberate and let it be sniped.
Why so convoluted?
No one has articulated a reason why auto-spawning more larva is better than auto-cast injects.
That is other than the visceral hate for auto-cast (except for medivac heals and zealot charge of course) because it gives the optics of dumbing down the game.
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On August 25 2015 23:27 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2015 05:26 Little-Chimp wrote:
Yes you can turn it off but its still a weird switch flip as opposed to an ability. Cleary blizz wants to keep the queens in so they can be targeted down by the opponent as opposed to having them come from the hatchery. Why not just create a zerg "larva reactor" as an add on to the hatchery? Call it a cerberate and let it be sniped. Why so convoluted? No one has articulated a reason why auto-spawning more larva is better than auto-cast injects. That is other than the visceral hate for auto-cast (except for medivac heals and zealot charge of course) because it gives the optics of dumbing down the game.
RE: Auto-Spawn
Simply put, it would be insanely overpowered. The larva mechanic is both the most important, and most powerful mechanic at Zerg's disposal. Having Blizzard run some tests and determine "this is how much larva Zerg needs" and just making that happen automatically is antithetical to the concept of a skill-based game. It's a concept tantamount to the command center or Nexus automatically adding on production facilities as your economy grows.
RE: Visceral Hate
Nobody hates that the Medivac or the Zealot's heal and charge autocast. Units would be broken without those two abilities on autocast.
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