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In my view, what made the pre-nerf version of the Cyclone so interesting for Mech was not the overly powerful attack or range. It was the fact that you could actually produce right out of your first/second factories and survive early game TvP.
Doesn't make it interesting though. Rather it functioned as a band-aid fix to a problem that Blizzard apparently doesn't wanna adress as they see more "action" when the problem isn't fixed.
Problem with all-round Cyclone is that it overlaps with the Siege Tank. You need very distinct advantages and disadvantages in order to incentivize playes to not just mass Cyclones.
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Regardless the patches, im happy to see Blizzard talking much more with the community 
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I like the design of cyclones but they should be a support unit and not a core unit.
Mass cyclones is just not interesting to watch
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United States4883 Posts
On July 03 2015 16:21 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 11:47 SC2John wrote:
3) Pro players and ESPORTS are supported by the viewers, and thereby the players as well. The most important thing is the gameplay -- make the game fun to play, and people will play and watch it. I think it's a trap to get caught up in "map diversity" and things of that nature without addressing the real concern of making playing on the maps fun. Destructible rocks and watch towers were a good start, but maps in general are very lackluster and rigid in design mostly due to the restrictions placed on each race via their design (as well as a host of other issues like high ground advantage, space control, etc.). Blizzard should be working towards making maps more dynamic rather than making them more imbalanced. However, that said, I'm glad they're trying new things rather than sticking to the careful, tender, "SC2 is a small fragile baby who can't take any amount of change or it'll die" approach they've always had.
first of all, regarding the viewers game esports thing, if this is what Blizzard wants to push there is very little to be done about it, you either accept it or vote with the wallet and don't give them any support. as for making maps more dynamic, this would likely require a huge overhaul of the game which won't be happening anytime soon given their behaviour over the last years.
It's not about overhauling the game, but at least making some positive steps in the area. I gave the example of destructible/collapsible rocks, which changes a lot of different strategies and scenarios, and that's a good start! But we definitely need more "map features" and [Blizzard to have] at least some idea that map positioning is more than just where minerals are ^^.
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Not sure if anyone has ever suggested this idea, but I feel that the nuke should have a radiation cloud that lingers for a certain amount of time. Units caught within cloud get attack range decreased. Cloud does extra damage to structures over time, and can destroy structures, but does significantly less damage to units with out actually killing units (almost like plague from defilers, but I mean a lot less damage).
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On July 05 2015 01:57 ClipSitch wrote:
Not sure if anyone has ever suggested this idea, but I feel that the nuke should have a radiation cloud that lingers for a certain amount of time. Units caught within cloud get attack range decreased. Cloud does extra damage to structures over time, and can destroy structures, but does significantly less damage to units with out actually killing units (almost like plague from defilers, but I mean a lot less damage).
I know the realism argument doesn't count for much, but I was reading about World War I battles and how entire areas were destroyed and for many years became uninhabitable deadzones, with toxins, corpses and explosives littering the ground. In contrast, in Starcraft 2 the nuke gives a three second graphical effect after landing which then disappears. It made me feel that the landscape should constantly be altered and slowly turn deceased after repeated shelling in order to emphasize your connection with this fictional world. You win the game, but you've destroyed everything and many people are dead, and so on.
Some artwork that I've seen related to this: 1 2 3
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Why are the fonts in sc2 soooo small??? Any way on how to make it bigger?
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On July 05 2015 02:20 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2015 01:57 ClipSitch wrote:
Not sure if anyone has ever suggested this idea, but I feel that the nuke should have a radiation cloud that lingers for a certain amount of time. Units caught within cloud get attack range decreased. Cloud does extra damage to structures over time, and can destroy structures, but does significantly less damage to units with out actually killing units (almost like plague from defilers, but I mean a lot less damage). I know the realism argument doesn't count for much, but I was reading about World War I battles and how entire areas were destroyed and for many years became uninhabitable deadzones, with toxins, corpses and explosives littering the ground. In contrast, in Starcraft 2 the nuke gives a three second graphical effect after landing which then disappears. It made me feel that the landscape should constantly be altered and slowly turn deceased after repeated shelling in order to emphasize your connection with this fictional world. You win the game, but you've destroyed everything and many people are dead, and so on. Some artwork that I've seen related to this: 1 2 3
If you want that you have to play Command and Conquer (the old games). In C&C3 you could shoot holes in the ground, make it unbuildable, create resources (that damage infantry units) and shoot biological weapons that leave behind toxic clouds that deal damage over time if they touch anything.
I dont think this works in SC since it is a different kind of game. The nuke itself feels really out of place and should be replaced (in my opinion) with a much smaller scale bomb that is less all-or-nothing.
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That's true, nukes don't really feel like science fiction military.
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It's good that they want more map variation but I think the race design forces it one way.
Maybe if the high ground mechanic was stronger it could give more options.
Nice that they're talking skillshots but it sounds like PR speak for we've decided not to. I don't see why having to select one unit to use them should be a bad thing. It'd improve storm if it wasn't blanket castable with 3 spammy clicks.
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Nice that they're talking skillshots but it sounds like PR speak for we've decided not to. I don't see why having to select one unit to use them should be a bad thing. It'd improve storm if it wasn't blanket castable with 3 spammy clicks.
Unintuitive (because its inconsistent) and raises the learning barrier. You can have line-skillshots in the game but only on big expensive units. Not massable units.
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I wonder what they feel about casttimes on spells such as storm, fungal etc
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On July 05 2015 06:02 skylinefan wrote:Why are the fonts in sc2 soooo small??? Any way on how to make it bigger?
Like the sc2 chat? There needs to be font size options and font color options.
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does anyone else think FIVE SECONDS OF NOT BEING DAMAGED is ridiculous ? Just blanket storm the area to counter ?
Or the fact that bio vs protoss demands that you stutterstep the bio to avoid colossus/disruptors until the vikings clean up?
Five seconds in a TvP end-game fight is a really long time
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United States12281 Posts
On July 06 2015 17:10 SilverBullet wrote:
does anyone else think FIVE SECONDS OF NOT BEING DAMAGED is ridiculous ? Just blanket storm the area to counter ?
Or the fact that bio vs protoss demands that you stutterstep the bio to avoid colossus/disruptors until the vikings clean up?
Five seconds in a TvP end-game fight is a really long time
It definitely is. I posted in the Battle.net thread that the shot could autocomplete upon taking damage or moving proportionate to the elapsed cast time. That way if someone Storms you after 4 seconds of casting, you'd still get 80% of the damage on the target, or if you don't need the full 5 seconds to kill a lower-hp target like a Templar or Infestor, you can manually cancel the cast yourself.
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On July 06 2015 17:10 SilverBullet wrote:
does anyone else think FIVE SECONDS OF NOT BEING DAMAGED is ridiculous ? Just blanket storm the area to counter ?
Or the fact that bio vs protoss demands that you stutterstep the bio to avoid colossus/disruptors until the vikings clean up?
Five seconds in a TvP end-game fight is a really long time
5 seconds seems quite long, but if the damage is quite high then it could warrant the delay.
It would need some testing, but I think the delay vs damage could be balanced into a nice spot.
I like the idea, but 5 seconds would need teaking.
Right now, it feels like a single damage nuke, while the nuke is well.. a nuke.
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On July 04 2015 20:33 Charoisaur wrote:
I like the design of cyclones but they should be a support unit and not a core unit.
Mass cyclones is just not interesting to watch
Mech is missing a boring core unit that is mediocre vs anything though. Viking would exactly fit the role if the ground mode would not have an armored tag. And it would even be interesting.
But I don't think people will be able to deal with a strategic button press. Reaction buttons like Stim seems to work fine. But stuff that needs you to assess the situation and press a button accordingly seems to not work even at pro level. Example would be the HotS Thor (that one is out of battle use only even), or the WoL Voidray (well thats not a button press but charging them pre battle falls under that category Imo).
I would say its the game speed that makes it impossible to tie a decision to a button in a defensive way. Since thats something you can't train with muscle memory, the muscle memory might even screw you over in that case.
And with a boring mech core unit, they could make the Thor and Siege Tank interesting maybe without using the Medivac for once to spice things up for Terran. Could even remove the Hellbat and say use the Hellion, now you have your core unit so you can micro those in a fight.
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On a side note, I think Winter deserves another chance.
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Whatever happens, the important bit is execution. In other words, talk is cheap. If all this "communication" results in excuses why this and that won't work and how dkim's original vision is correct, then it only serves as a distraction to deflect criticism, which is what I think is happening here. We better get something tangible in a future beta.
But I'll make a prediction here. Nothing will come of this new fangled communication: We'll still end up with Dropcraft, Gimmickcraft, Basetradecraft -- how dkim thinks SC2 should be played.
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EPT
