EPTHot Mineral Harvesting -economic mod for LotV? - Page 2
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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_indigo_
Slovenia171 Posts
On June 25 2015 21:31 Markwerf wrote: Also the whole problem with impact on balance from people I don't get much either. New expansion throws every balance off anyway and balance isn't as hard of a problem as people make it out to be.. Balancing is just tweaking some numbers to make things fair. You can't exactly say they have been doing a good job of it, just being willing to apply more micropatches makes balancing really a simple task.. No, this is completely wrong. New units fill out certain roles, make or break compositions. But the core units, the simple marines vs zerglings vs zealots and than roaches, stalkers, marauders - these things need to be balanced really hard because you keep making them all game and both early game and lategame compositions need to be balanced. In SC2 it took not only Blizzard but us - the whole gaming community - several years to get the game in a good state. If you remember the first year of SC2 and all the 1base games.. I'm afraid that new model with only several months of testing could mean disaster in a way, and even worse - it could prove as a worse model but by that time the game will truly die out. Now, HMH model is not so different and this is a HUGE +, which is why I support it now. But making mineral patches random is a horrible suggestion because on some maps some races will be completely overpowered with their capabilities. And you can't balance a game differently on each map. | ||
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
On June 25 2015 03:04 Ctone23 wrote: This is really interesting and I'd love to set up a showmatch for any interested players/pros. Hey, I'd be up for show match in the hot mineral mod. I won 2/2 double harvester tournaments and it would be fun to play something like this again. | ||
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rockslave
Brazil318 Posts
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
 ... wish I could participate myself, but I just suck.... | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3088 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
You'll end up with very awkward resource numbers which might end up doing more harm than good. | ||
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
On June 26 2015 00:57 KeksX wrote: BlackLilium would be interesting to see what you have to say about BisuDagger's points as those are the things I thought of at first, too. I did respond to his concerns in the 3rd post after his. Unless I somehow misunderstood them? | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On June 26 2015 01:38 BlackLilium wrote: I did respond to his concerns in the 3rd post after his. Unless I somehow misunderstood them? Sorry, my bad. I was actually looking at the other thread for your response -_-. Your answer makes sense, and as someone still pretty hyped for Archon Mode giving more work to the macro part is not necessarily a bad thing. I think it could be a major reason for Blizzard to turn down the idea, though. | ||
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Geiko
France1932 Posts
Anything that throws away current early game income is bad because it would mean having to rebalance the entire game. DH and this are good ideas for a brand new game, but not for a game that already has 3+ years of fine tuning early builds. A solution would be to have this mechanism only for expansions an not main bases, but that would be very inelegant... | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On June 26 2015 03:12 Geiko wrote: I'm sorry but this isn't the road blizzard wants to take. Anything that throws away current early game income is bad because it would mean having to rebalance the entire game. DH and this are good ideas for a brand new game, but not for a game that already has 3+ years of fine tuning early builds. A solution would be to have this mechanism only for expansions an not main bases, but that would be very inelegant... No it wouldn't? Blizzard didn't rebalance the entire game before they doubled early game income...You do not have to change the costs of units (that's what I'm reading from you) when you use a mod that's designed to slow the pace of games down a little bit. Not unless you wanted to NEGATE the slowing down (which is the point...of reducing income). And yes, I think being required to rework builds illustrates exactly what the mod is trying to achieve and is the brilliant point of it all. You don't need to rebalance costs. Players adjust builds themselves... | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19138 Posts
On June 26 2015 02:58 KeksX wrote: Sorry, my bad. I was actually looking at the other thread for your response -_-. Your answer makes sense, and as someone still pretty hyped for Archon Mode giving more work to the macro part is not necessarily a bad thing. I think it could be a major reason for Blizzard to turn down the idea, though. Yeah, his answers are pretty solid which is why I did not reply. I was content with his post. But now that I'm at it, thanks for the reply BlackLilium. | ||
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Geiko
France1932 Posts
On June 26 2015 03:22 Qwyn wrote: No it wouldn't? Blizzard didn't rebalance the entire game before they doubled early game income...You do not have to change the costs of units (that's what I'm reading from you) when you use a mod that's designed to slow the pace of games down a little bit. Not unless you wanted to NEGATE the slowing down (which is the point...of reducing income). And yes, I think being required to rework builds illustrates exactly what the mod is trying to achieve and is the brilliant point of it all. You don't need to rebalance costs. Players adjust builds themselves... I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that that is what blizzard's take on the subject is. The income at 16 workers is the same with current lotv economy as with HotS economy nothing has been doubled (just time shifted). If you change the income curve at the beginning of the game, you're going to end up with low econ all-ins being too strong, and those are the hardest to balance. There's also the risk of changing the gas to minerals ratio. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
On June 26 2015 04:48 Pontius Pirate wrote: I do get the impression that all of these showmatches are extremely limited in their usefulness until they're tried out with 12 worker start and LotV units. This is obviously never going to be implemented into HotS, so it would be nice to demonstrate how in functions in the environment it might have a chance of being implemented into. Do we have an up-to-date and working LotV mod? | ||
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
On June 25 2015 02:42 Qwyn wrote: You have a BNET thread for this yet? I will bump it constantly! This is awesome, I knew something even bigger and better was coming after DH! Apparently someone made a thread just recently. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/18194084819 | ||
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rockslave
Brazil318 Posts
On June 26 2015 03:12 Geiko wrote: I'm sorry but this isn't the road blizzard wants to take. Anything that throws away current early game income is bad because it would mean having to rebalance the entire game. DH and this are good ideas for a brand new game, but not for a game that already has 3+ years of fine tuning early builds. A solution would be to have this mechanism only for expansions an not main bases, but that would be very inelegant... They already have to rebalance everything, with Ravagers, Adepts, and Hatchery-tech drops. | ||
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Geiko
France1932 Posts
Is this only a community project ? | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
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joshie0808
Canada1023 Posts
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