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On June 22 2015 17:25 Dingodile wrote:Did someone consider the power of mainbuilding? What do you think if we see a 8 base zerg vs 6 base terran game? Terran will abuse pretty hard with mules. Protoss with mass chronos. Zerg is pretty weak at it. I have said few years ago about that, mainbuilding are too important/powerful with their abilities in sc2. Hatcheries power are only strong until ~4 base. Edit: Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 10:47 bhfberserk wrote:
I would love to see 300 supply cap being tested. It would be really epic to see big armies clashing. And 300/300 battles are as long as 200/200. More kaboom without seeing what happened like todays crime thriller cinema movies? No thanks. There is a reason why ~100 vs 100 supply fights are slightly longer than 200/200 (fights with +1 vs +1 or +2 vs +2 are longer than +3 vs +3 upgrades) and they are more entertaining to watch and play.
I think increasing supply cap has the right idea: allow for more workers, allowing for more bases. But, as you point out, it will in practice lead to larger armies as much as to more workers which isn't as desired.
I think a better fix could be to decrease supply of workers. Half supply workers anyone? Hmm? You could easily saturate 5 mining bases with less supply than you use for 3 today. It would have to come with decreased mining rate of course (like less minerals per worker cycle), we don't need 2x today income in any way. Decreased mining rate will slow down the economical inflation early game that is mostly independent of the supply of workers, which seems to be a generally desired property these days, in theory allowing for more harass etc. Not sure, what do you think?
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On June 22 2015 22:05 Cascade wrote:
I'll try to run simulations for DH8+lotv (people seem to favour DH8 these days), longer worker build time and 300 supply cap. Shouldn't be too hard I think, essentially just changing some parameters. It won't tell you how the gameplay will be ofc, but I think it says something about how rewarding extra bases will be, and you can see how the rate of exponential economy increase changes, which in turn affects how effective harass is. I think the last point with faster exponential growth giving less time for non-economy investment to pay back is essentially that super-long article thedwf wrote some time ago, correct? I never read it... Anyway, feel free to badger me if I dont get it done in a couple of days.
Since you are on it - you might want to have a look at "Improved Double Harvesting (2x3)" as well, which I published just moments ago. It takes the DH 2x4 model, but with a little bit more involved tricks reduces the gathering time, while maintaining the DH efficency curve. With the worker sitting less at the minerals, DH 2x3 results in an income being around 10% lower compared to Standard.
I plan to make an official thread in few days about this + some other changes I have been working on...
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On June 23 2015 01:54 BlackLilium wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 22:05 Cascade wrote:
I'll try to run simulations for DH8+lotv (people seem to favour DH8 these days), longer worker build time and 300 supply cap. Shouldn't be too hard I think, essentially just changing some parameters. It won't tell you how the gameplay will be ofc, but I think it says something about how rewarding extra bases will be, and you can see how the rate of exponential economy increase changes, which in turn affects how effective harass is. I think the last point with faster exponential growth giving less time for non-economy investment to pay back is essentially that super-long article thedwf wrote some time ago, correct? I never read it... Anyway, feel free to badger me if I dont get it done in a couple of days. Since you are on it - you might want to have a look at "Improved Double Harvesting (2x3)" as well, which I published just moments ago. It takes the DH 2x4 model, but with a little bit more involved tricks reduces the gathering time, while maintaining the DH efficency curve. With the worker sitting less at the minerals, DH 2x3 results in an income being around 10% lower compared to Standard. I plan to make an official thread in few days about this + some other changes I have been working on...
Can't find it, can you link me to it? I need the numbers for the income curve to simulate.
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On June 23 2015 07:58 Cascade wrote:
Can't find it, can you link me to it? I need the numbers for the income curve to simulate.
Forgot to say that I published it only in Europe region at the moment 
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On June 23 2015 13:32 BlackLilium wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 07:58 Cascade wrote:
Can't find it, can you link me to it? I need the numbers for the income curve to simulate. Forgot to say that I published it only in Europe region at the moment
Oh, published on arcade... I thought you posted it on TL. 
Well, if you give me the income curve I can simulate it for you.
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On June 23 2015 15:22 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 13:32 BlackLilium wrote:On June 23 2015 07:58 Cascade wrote:
Can't find it, can you link me to it? I need the numbers for the income curve to simulate. Forgot to say that I published it only in Europe region at the moment Oh, published on arcade... I thought you posted it on TL. Well, if you give me the income curve I can simulate it for you.
It's an extension mod, not an arcade. You just launch any map you like and "create with mod"
I can give you the income curves I have - no problem - but I thought that the whole point of your experiment is to perform the measurements yourself?
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On June 23 2015 16:08 BlackLilium wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 15:22 Cascade wrote:On June 23 2015 13:32 BlackLilium wrote:On June 23 2015 07:58 Cascade wrote:
Can't find it, can you link me to it? I need the numbers for the income curve to simulate. Forgot to say that I published it only in Europe region at the moment Oh, published on arcade... I thought you posted it on TL. Well, if you give me the income curve I can simulate it for you. It's an extension mod, not an arcade. You just launch any map you like and "create with mod" I can give you the income curves I have - no problem - but I thought that the whole point of your experiment is to perform the measurements yourself?
No, I've never done the income curves. I took them from Barrins spreadsheet.
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EPT
