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On April 09 2015 03:39 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
I've honestly been using Oracles for Stasis Ward. Stasis Ward is so cool, I love it for delaying pushes.
I strongly disagree with lowering the Disruptor's tech tier. It's powerful, and it's spot on the tech tree is appropriate. The better way to deal with current Protoss weakness is to simply buff Gateway. Considering all the rest of the changes to the game now, it's the perfect time to try this. And hell, if you make Protoss continually less reliant on Forcefields, we can have more than 2 types of maps, maybe!
What is the role of the Colossus then? What's the point of having 2 AoE Robotics units with the same exact tech requirement?
People bitched and moaned about the Colossus because they didn't like the design but it wasn't imbalanced. Now they've nerfed its damage 20% and its range with nothing to compensate.
I don't have beta access and nobody is making Colo so I can't really tell....
Perhaps if you get a few Colossus and a few disruptors you can use the Disruptors to zone out the enemy army while the Colos do damage from a distance?
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Honestly, just remove the Colossus. It's unnecessary now (range nerf + 20% damage nerf), and the most boring unit Protoss has. I won't miss it.
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On April 09 2015 03:47 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Honestly, just remove the Colossus. It's unnecessary now (range nerf + 20% damage nerf), and the most boring unit Protoss has. I won't miss it.
Okay but give us something to replace it? Just for strategic depth. I don't want to get to a point where everyone learns to split against Disruptor and now we have no units that can kill anything....
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What strategic depth? There's already no real need for it. The new strategic depth for P is that Storm and Stargate into Carriers are viable strats as well as Disruptor. Protoss has plenty of strategic depth now, largely BECAUSE of the fact that you don't *have* to make Colossus every game or just die. Protoss is more fun to play than ever, even if it has a glaring early game problem at the moment that should honestly be easy to figure out a fix for.
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On April 09 2015 04:07 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
What strategic depth? There's already no real need for it. The new strategic depth for P is that Storm and Stargate into Carriers are viable strats as well as Disruptor. Protoss has plenty of strategic depth now, largely BECAUSE of the fact that you don't *have* to make Colossus every game or just die. Protoss is more fun to play than ever, even if it has a glaring early game problem at the moment that should honestly be easy to figure out a fix for.
Maybe you know more than me because you've gotten to play it, but to me it just seems like all everyone is doing (and winning with) is Disruptor drop > Carriers.
I want to play StarCraft, not "Disruptor Drop Challenge 2000."
I want to be able to play a game without having to make a Disruptor. Disruptor is just the new Colossus.
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I think at this point if they kept the game like that, a buff to gateway units could be nice indeed
Cyclone will still need a nerf because it's absolutely ridiculous
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On April 09 2015 04:17 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 04:07 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
What strategic depth? There's already no real need for it. The new strategic depth for P is that Storm and Stargate into Carriers are viable strats as well as Disruptor. Protoss has plenty of strategic depth now, largely BECAUSE of the fact that you don't *have* to make Colossus every game or just die. Protoss is more fun to play than ever, even if it has a glaring early game problem at the moment that should honestly be easy to figure out a fix for. Maybe you know more than me because you've gotten to play it, but to me it just seems like all everyone is doing (and winning with) is Disruptor drop > Carriers. I want to play StarCraft, not "Disruptor Drop Challenge 2000." I want to be able to play a game without having to make a Disruptor. Disruptor is just the new Colossus.
With a buff to Protoss early game, that won't have to be the case. The other tech trees are very viable, if it wasn't for the weak early game, imo.
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On April 09 2015 04:17 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 04:07 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
What strategic depth? There's already no real need for it. The new strategic depth for P is that Storm and Stargate into Carriers are viable strats as well as Disruptor. Protoss has plenty of strategic depth now, largely BECAUSE of the fact that you don't *have* to make Colossus every game or just die. Protoss is more fun to play than ever, even if it has a glaring early game problem at the moment that should honestly be easy to figure out a fix for. Maybe you know more than me because you've gotten to play it, but to me it just seems like all everyone is doing (and winning with) is Disruptor drop > Carriers. I want to play StarCraft, not "Disruptor Drop Challenge 2000." I want to be able to play a game without having to make a Disruptor. Disruptor is just the new Colossus.
You should blame that on the many people trying to play to win instead of trying to find new builds, though. And I mean a unit being a core part of a matchup is nothing bad per se(see ZvT or some BW matchups), it's just bad if it's all that EVER happens.
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On April 09 2015 04:35 ROOTFayth wrote:
I think at this point if they kept the game like that, a buff to gateway units could be nice indeed
Cyclone will still need a nerf because it's absolutely ridiculous
^This. A gateway buff has been a huge request for a long time, I think that Blizzard is working towards that, they've nerfed the collosus, now they are likely looking at how zealots and stalkers (and now adepts) can be buffed to make protoss feel like a more rounded race.
I think the economy change lends itself nicely to that as well, because warpgate doesn't hit as early, so by the time warpgate is in play gateway rushes shouldn't be a problem like they would have with 6 starting workers and buffed gateway units.
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On April 09 2015 04:57 Soldier92 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 04:35 ROOTFayth wrote:
I think at this point if they kept the game like that, a buff to gateway units could be nice indeed
Cyclone will still need a nerf because it's absolutely ridiculous ^This. A gateway buff has been a huge request for a long time, I think that Blizzard is working towards that, they've nerfed the collosus, now they are likely looking at how zealots and stalkers (and now adepts) can be buffed to make protoss feel like a more rounded race. I think the economy change lends itself nicely to that as well, because warpgate doesn't hit as early, so by the time warpgate is in play gateway rushes shouldn't be a problem like they would have with 6 starting workers and buffed gateway units.
That and Lurkers/Widow Mines will rape Gateway units still.
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Oh my dear sweet god, so apparently the popular Terran strat right now is just mass cyclone + mass widow mine and I have no idea how to deal with it as Protoss. Easily the single most frustrating strat I think I have ever played against. I even got up to Carriers (in good numbers!) in the games I played vs it, and the cyclones could just seriously kite to infinity.
I really, really hope the Cyclone is patched soon, that is some really really really frustrating nonsense.
In the meantime...anyone have any tips?
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On April 09 2015 06:22 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Oh my dear sweet god, so apparently the popular Terran strat right now is just mass cyclone + mass widow mine and I have no idea how to deal with it as Protoss. Easily the single most frustrating strat I think I have ever played against. I even got up to Carriers (in good numbers!) in the games I played vs it, and the cyclones could just seriously kite to infinity.
I really, really hope the Cyclone is patched soon, that is some really really really frustrating nonsense.
In the meantime...anyone have any tips?
Does anyone have any idea when the first balance patch will hit ?
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Dunno, hope it's soon. Cyclone is out of control haha
You basically have to blindly open Phoenix in PvT right now, which deal with early game Cyclone shenanigans, but if you are looking to try to take more than 3 bases, it gets crazy tough, especially when they start adding in the mass widow mine. Throw in some hellion runbys and, welp. Just not sure what to do. I guess Storm but idk, I feel like that's pretty weak vs Cyclone still.
Cyclones also own cannons pretty hard, which is unfortunate.
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On April 09 2015 06:26 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Dunno, hope it's soon. Cyclone is out of control haha
You basically have to blindly open Phoenix in PvT right now, which deal with early game Cyclone shenanigans, but if you are looking to try to take more than 3 bases, it gets crazy tough, especially when they start adding in the mass widow mine. Throw in some hellion runbys and, welp. Just not sure what to do. I guess Storm but idk, I feel like that's pretty weak vs Cyclone still.
Cyclones also own cannons pretty hard, which is unfortunate.
Maybe try Blink + obs? Gives you a bit of map control and lets you micro against Cyclones.
If they go bio you can add disruptors and if they mech you can leave the game and queue up as Zerg.
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On April 09 2015 06:26 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Dunno, hope it's soon. Cyclone is out of control haha
You basically have to blindly open Phoenix in PvT right now, which deal with early game Cyclone shenanigans, but if you are looking to try to take more than 3 bases, it gets crazy tough, especially when they start adding in the mass widow mine. Throw in some hellion runbys and, welp. Just not sure what to do. I guess Storm but idk, I feel like that's pretty weak vs Cyclone still.
Cyclones also own cannons pretty hard, which is unfortunate.
Yeah phoenix seem to shut them down well early game, but things can still spiral out of control if the Terran doesn't commit and just builds up cyclones + mines. I've seen PartinG crushing Terrans left and right by just killing the first 1-2 cyclones with lifts and then making a massive gateway counter attack, but that seems a very gimmicky way to play the match-up (every game was over by 5 min basically). I don't know, I kinda hope cyclone is reworked quite quickly too. I feel the lock-on range is far too much and should have more counterplay, even if that implies making the attack a bit stronger. I feel the cyclone is far too massable too because it's quite solid all-around, what's the point of even making a tank now ? And goddammit, REMOVE THOSE RANGE INDICATORS FOR THE OPPONENT if mass cyclones has to be a thing. It makes the screens impossibly messy, especially when you have tempests (range indicators everywhere).
On April 09 2015 06:31 DinoMight wrote:
Maybe try Blink + obs? Gives you a bit of map control and lets you micro against Cyclones.
If they go bio you can add disruptors and if they mech you can leave the game and queue up as Zerg.
I laughed 
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On April 09 2015 06:32 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 06:31 DinoMight wrote:
If they go bio you can add disruptors and if they mech you can leave the game and queue up as Zerg. I laughed
I'm glad someone did.
I think what they need to do is remove the moving fire when NOT locked on and get rid of autocast lock. I like the concept of the unit but right now it's just way too good. It should only be that good when a good player is microing it to its full potential IMO. I just watched Demuslim spam Cyclone/Hellion and it looked ridiculously strong.
Phoenixes to shut down the early Cyclones is a good idea. You'll want the SG later for Carriers anyway and it gives you a bit of scouting/map presence.
I really want to try Blink openings though. With the slightly weaker Marauder and the Disruptor being able to tank Widow Mine shots on its way in seems like you could start Blink+Obs and transition into the mid-late game on a good footing.
Helps you deal with Banshees/Tank drops too.
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On April 09 2015 06:31 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 06:26 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Dunno, hope it's soon. Cyclone is out of control haha
You basically have to blindly open Phoenix in PvT right now, which deal with early game Cyclone shenanigans, but if you are looking to try to take more than 3 bases, it gets crazy tough, especially when they start adding in the mass widow mine. Throw in some hellion runbys and, welp. Just not sure what to do. I guess Storm but idk, I feel like that's pretty weak vs Cyclone still.
Cyclones also own cannons pretty hard, which is unfortunate. Maybe try Blink + obs? Gives you a bit of map control and lets you micro against Cyclones. If they go bio you can add disruptors and if they mech you can leave the game and queue up as Zerg.
The *only* way to stop Cylones is lifting them with Phoenix and killing their lock on. There is no microing vs them, they are too fast and the range is way too long.
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On April 09 2015 06:42 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 06:31 DinoMight wrote:On April 09 2015 06:26 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Dunno, hope it's soon. Cyclone is out of control haha
You basically have to blindly open Phoenix in PvT right now, which deal with early game Cyclone shenanigans, but if you are looking to try to take more than 3 bases, it gets crazy tough, especially when they start adding in the mass widow mine. Throw in some hellion runbys and, welp. Just not sure what to do. I guess Storm but idk, I feel like that's pretty weak vs Cyclone still.
Cyclones also own cannons pretty hard, which is unfortunate. Maybe try Blink + obs? Gives you a bit of map control and lets you micro against Cyclones. If they go bio you can add disruptors and if they mech you can leave the game and queue up as Zerg. The *only* way to stop Cylones is lifting them with Phoenix and killing their lock on. There is no microing vs them, they are too fast and the range is way too long.
Not even if you Blink away the unit they're locked onto and move the others forward etc? Are they just too strong?
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On April 09 2015 03:43 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 03:39 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
I've honestly been using Oracles for Stasis Ward. Stasis Ward is so cool, I love it for delaying pushes.
I strongly disagree with lowering the Disruptor's tech tier. It's powerful, and it's spot on the tech tree is appropriate. The better way to deal with current Protoss weakness is to simply buff Gateway. Considering all the rest of the changes to the game now, it's the perfect time to try this. And hell, if you make Protoss continually less reliant on Forcefields, we can have more than 2 types of maps, maybe! What is the role of the Colossus then? What's the point of having 2 AoE Robotics units with the same exact tech requirement? People bitched and moaned about the Colossus because they didn't like the design but it wasn't imbalanced. Now they've nerfed its damage 20% and its range with nothing to compensate. I don't have beta access and nobody is making Colo so I can't really tell.... Perhaps if you get a few Colossus and a few disruptors you can use the Disruptors to zone out the enemy army while the Colos do damage from a distance?
I saw Apollo do just that earlier. Added a second robo after his third kicked in (pvt) and kept about 3 disruptors on the map at all times and produced colossi the rest of the time. The terran he was playing was using a cyclone hellion hellbat composition and I can't speak to whether or not that's even remotely playable but the colossi added a lot of stability.
I generally agree with others that it would be better to scrap the colossus altogether and buff gateway units at this point than to try and plug the early game hole with expensive shit, especially with how badly you get punished for sitting on two bases.
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On April 09 2015 06:43 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 06:42 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On April 09 2015 06:31 DinoMight wrote:On April 09 2015 06:26 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Dunno, hope it's soon. Cyclone is out of control haha
You basically have to blindly open Phoenix in PvT right now, which deal with early game Cyclone shenanigans, but if you are looking to try to take more than 3 bases, it gets crazy tough, especially when they start adding in the mass widow mine. Throw in some hellion runbys and, welp. Just not sure what to do. I guess Storm but idk, I feel like that's pretty weak vs Cyclone still.
Cyclones also own cannons pretty hard, which is unfortunate. Maybe try Blink + obs? Gives you a bit of map control and lets you micro against Cyclones. If they go bio you can add disruptors and if they mech you can leave the game and queue up as Zerg. The *only* way to stop Cylones is lifting them with Phoenix and killing their lock on. There is no microing vs them, they are too fast and the range is way too long. Not even if you Blink away the unit they're locked onto and move the others forward etc? Are they just too strong?
Yeah their to strong. 200 health and sick damage. Pretty crazy.
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