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Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Patch 9.2: Live on Jan. 24, 2019
In this patch, Sylas: The Unshackled, will be released. Find out more in the Champion Reveal and Champion Trailer.
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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I'm sure making jungles want to farm less will stop the chain ganks laners think is ruining the game. Confident even.
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Fck, my goal this season was to get diamond, looks like that just got harder.
They just hit Irelia with a sledge hammer, flat scaling on her Q, is there any other dmg ability in the game that's the same?
+ Show Spoiler +
- Jax nerf is dumb
- Kass nerf is dumb
- Rakan looks nerfed into the ground, not sure why
- Why Zyra getting nerfed???
- Finally ignite is getting nerfed, making the lives of squishy champions bearable.
Overall not that happy with the patch. Especially because Lost Chapter wasn't touched, and it's just too good right now. Also nothing in bot lane was touched, which is both good and bad.
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Also nothing in bot lane was touched, which is both good and bad.
Zyra and Brand were touched, that means a lot for solo q.
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I really don't see a lot of Zyra or Brand in soloQ. They're not uncommon, but op.gg puts them at 7% picks rates each, that's decently low. Good win rate on Zyra too, but I suspect that's because people who know how to play her are more likely to pick her.
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I'm not saying they dominated. I just think they're too reliable as sources of high damage (as long as you're minimally competent on them). If their play rates end up dropping, melee supports are going to be much more viable.
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I really dont understand why they keep nerfing Jax and Irelia when the real issue is how stupid the Triforce/Steraks/Titanic trinity is. When literally all items they build so effectively combine raw damage and health and synergize so well it's really a nobrainer champions like them are bound to be balance hell.
Zyra's "nerf" is "-5MS" level of Rito troll. lol
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Can anyone explains why a win rate within a specific elo cannot be solo considered as an indicator if a champion is op, bad or balanced? What difference does it make if the champ is easy to play, mechanically advanced, picked a lot, requires better game knowledge and other bullshit like these. People constantly argue that because a champ is simple for example he is balanced on 54% win rate or something within these lines and that if he has 50% means that he is weak atm. Also if he is picked a lot and have 50+ win rate, he is overpowered. How the fuck does it matter what is the reason for a champ to have its win rate? Why do we have to put theoretical scenarios such as because the champ is hard he has low win rate but with time when people become good on him he will balance, maybe it will, maybe it will not, why do they need to theorize at all? If the champ has 54% win rate within a specific elo (assuming that 48-52 is what is considered balanced) it means that that champ is op in this elo at that moment, who cares if its because he is easy to play? or because people cannot play against him? why does the reason matter at all? if the reason changes, few weeks later his win rate will change too, wont it? At the end of the day a champ with 50% win rate will win 50% of his games even if it has 100% pick rate or I am missing something?
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On January 24 2019 23:24 M2 wrote:
Can anyone explains why a win rate within a specific elo cannot be solo considered as an indicator if a champion is op, bad or balanced? What difference does it make if the champ is easy to play, mechanically advanced, picked a lot, requires better game knowledge and other bullshit like these. People constantly argue that because a champ is simple for example he is balanced on 54% win rate or something like that and that if he has 50% means that he is weak atm. Also if he is picked a lot and have 50+ win rate, he is overpowered. How the fuck does it matter what is the reason for a champ to have its win rate? Why do we have to put theoretical scenarios such as because the champ is hard he has low win rate but with time when people become good on him he will balance, maybe it will, maybe it will not, why do they need to theorize at all? If the champ has 54% win rate within a specific elo (assuming that 48-52 is what is considered balanced) it means that that champ is op in this elo, who cares if its because he is easy to play? or because people cannot play against him? why does the reason matter at all? if the reason changes, few weeks later his win rate will change too, wont it? At the end the day a champ with 50% win rate will win 50% of his games even if it has 100% pick rate or I am missing something?
Can you give us an example?
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On January 24 2019 23:26 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2019 23:24 M2 wrote:
Can anyone explains why a win rate within a specific elo cannot be solo considered as an indicator if a champion is op, bad or balanced? What difference does it make if the champ is easy to play, mechanically advanced, picked a lot, requires better game knowledge and other bullshit like these. People constantly argue that because a champ is simple for example he is balanced on 54% win rate or something like that and that if he has 50% means that he is weak atm. Also if he is picked a lot and have 50+ win rate, he is overpowered. How the fuck does it matter what is the reason for a champ to have its win rate? Why do we have to put theoretical scenarios such as because the champ is hard he has low win rate but with time when people become good on him he will balance, maybe it will, maybe it will not, why do they need to theorize at all? If the champ has 54% win rate within a specific elo (assuming that 48-52 is what is considered balanced) it means that that champ is op in this elo, who cares if its because he is easy to play? or because people cannot play against him? why does the reason matter at all? if the reason changes, few weeks later his win rate will change too, wont it? At the end the day a champ with 50% win rate will win 50% of his games even if it has 100% pick rate or I am missing something? Can you give us an example?
Unfortunately its mostly coming from some reddit discussions, however, with Riot members explaining how do they balance and decide what has to be balanced or not? I've seen it several times, I particularly remember Rioter explaining that Pantheon having 51% win rate means that the champion is weak at the moment, because an easy to play champ like Panth should have around 53 to be considered in a good state. There was another one recently about Ezreal and Karthus because these two have more than 50% win rate but also a very high pick rate, it means that they are stronger than normal, something like that. Everyone can pick Karthus or Ez and with few games to have good results, which should mean they are strong
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Looking at an extreme example may help illustrate this idea:
Imagine that half of all Riven games were people trying her for the first time and losing. And that the other half of her games were one tricks that had 10,000 games of experience on her and that they won at a 100% win rate. Her overall win rate would be 50%. But the champ would be busted beyond belief because everyone playing her correctly would have a 100% win rate.
All champions are like that to some degree, though obviously a lot less than in the example. There are some number of very new players who are dragging down the winrate and some number of players playing the champ correctly and winning at the champ’s actual win rate. We the players only can see the average of those two groups on win rate stat websites. So the average total winrate will always appear lower than it should be because new players drag down the rates. If a champ is very easy, new players don’t drag rates down as much. If the champ is hard, they drag it down more. So if you are just comparing average total win rates, you need to adjust for how easy the champ is. If you are looking at winrate for experienced players with similar numbers of games played on the champ you wouldn’t need to make that adjustment.
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On January 25 2019 03:48 General_Winter wrote:
Looking at an extreme example may help illustrate this idea:
Imagine that half of all Riven games were people trying her for the first time and losing. And that the other half of her games were one tricks that had 10,000 games of experience on her and that they won at a 100% win rate. Her overall win rate would be 50%. But the champ would be busted beyond belief because everyone playing her correctly would have a 100% win rate.
All champions are like that to some degree, though obviously a lot less than in the example. There are some number of very new players who are dragging down the winrate and some number of players playing the champ correctly and winning at the champ’s actual win rate. We the players only can see the average of those two groups on win rate stat websites. So the average total winrate will always appear lower than it should be because new players drag down the rates. If a champ is very easy, new players don’t drag rates down as much. If the champ is hard, they drag it down more. So if you are just comparing average total win rates, you need to adjust for how easy the champ is. If you are looking at winrate for experienced players with similar numbers of games played on the champ you wouldn’t need to make that adjustment.
Actually not true, Champion.gg has win% based on game played.
However, bringing up Riven is a good example, because people with 51+ games on her are winning about 54.5% of the time, while players in the 1-50 bracket are sub 50% with the aggregate winrate being 50.21%
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While true, it becomes pretty hard to quantify a player who is 'good' at a champion. People who play a champ a lot aren't necessarily good at them, I've seen an Ezreal player with over 200 games on him this season alone, and he could barely cs. This might seem trivial, but it feeds into the stats of certain 'noob' champs: if for example yi had a 48% win rate in diamond, 52% in gold, but experienced yi mains have a 53% in both divisions, is he balanced? There are probably more yi mains in gold than in diamond too, both in absolute and percentage of player population, but more people play yi in gold in percentage of games: which metric determines balance?
I still hold the belief that the game is too complicated to perfectly balance, and Riot makes patch notes in the interest of their business model. Blatantly broken stuff gets nerfed, but reworked Irelia for example has been around for too long because people enjoy seeing and playing her, despite being busted or at least a god tier pick. The metrics they have on champs just help them figure out how to keep the player base hooked.
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On January 25 2019 05:29 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2019 03:48 General_Winter wrote:
Looking at an extreme example may help illustrate this idea:
Imagine that half of all Riven games were people trying her for the first time and losing. And that the other half of her games were one tricks that had 10,000 games of experience on her and that they won at a 100% win rate. Her overall win rate would be 50%. But the champ would be busted beyond belief because everyone playing her correctly would have a 100% win rate.
All champions are like that to some degree, though obviously a lot less than in the example. There are some number of very new players who are dragging down the winrate and some number of players playing the champ correctly and winning at the champ’s actual win rate. We the players only can see the average of those two groups on win rate stat websites. So the average total winrate will always appear lower than it should be because new players drag down the rates. If a champ is very easy, new players don’t drag rates down as much. If the champ is hard, they drag it down more. So if you are just comparing average total win rates, you need to adjust for how easy the champ is. If you are looking at winrate for experienced players with similar numbers of games played on the champ you wouldn’t need to make that adjustment.
Actually not true, Champion.gg has win% based on game played. However, bringing up Riven is a good example, because people with 51+ games on her are winning about 54.5% of the time, while players in the 1-50 bracket are sub 50% with the aggregate winrate being 50.21%
Non top 50 challenger one tricks having a 60+% winrate on a champion doesn't automatically mean that champion is broken.
If I'm a hardcore riven onetrick my riven is diamond 1 level, and every other champion I play at a plat 5 level, then my riven winrate is going to be massively inflated if i only play soloq and don't always get my role.
Making up some numbers, say I get riven in a bit over half of my games, that means there's a bit over half of my games where I'm playing at a diamond 1 level and a bit under half where I'm playing at a plat 5 level.
The exact stats are obviously impossible to know for sure, but lets say "plat 5 level play" has a 25% winrate at d4, and "d1 level play" has a 75% winrate at d4. If I play riven in just over half my games, then after enough games played i should average out at d3-ish mmr with a 65-70% winrate on riven.
Does this mean riven is broken? No... It just means that I'm a d1 riven player with a vastly inflated winrate because all my riven games are spent stomping people two divisions lower than my riven playing self, and I'm going to keep stomping these worse people whenever i get riven because I lost most of my games when I don't play riven.
These numbers are obviously pulled from thin air for illustrative purposes, but if you look at the vast majority of riven or yasuo or whatever one tricks who have a consistent 55+% winrate on their main but are also aren't in the process of climbing to their "true" mmr, they will have a ton of other champions with a sub 50% winrate which are keeping their from the mmr where they would have a 50% winrate with their main.
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On January 25 2019 05:44 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2019 05:29 Gahlo wrote:On January 25 2019 03:48 General_Winter wrote:
Looking at an extreme example may help illustrate this idea:
Imagine that half of all Riven games were people trying her for the first time and losing. And that the other half of her games were one tricks that had 10,000 games of experience on her and that they won at a 100% win rate. Her overall win rate would be 50%. But the champ would be busted beyond belief because everyone playing her correctly would have a 100% win rate.
All champions are like that to some degree, though obviously a lot less than in the example. There are some number of very new players who are dragging down the winrate and some number of players playing the champ correctly and winning at the champ’s actual win rate. We the players only can see the average of those two groups on win rate stat websites. So the average total winrate will always appear lower than it should be because new players drag down the rates. If a champ is very easy, new players don’t drag rates down as much. If the champ is hard, they drag it down more. So if you are just comparing average total win rates, you need to adjust for how easy the champ is. If you are looking at winrate for experienced players with similar numbers of games played on the champ you wouldn’t need to make that adjustment.
Actually not true, Champion.gg has win% based on game played. However, bringing up Riven is a good example, because people with 51+ games on her are winning about 54.5% of the time, while players in the 1-50 bracket are sub 50% with the aggregate winrate being 50.21% Non top 50 challenger one tricks having a 60+% winrate on a champion doesn't automatically mean that champion is broken. If I'm a hardcore riven onetrick my riven is diamond 1 level, and every other champion I play at a plat 5 level, then my riven winrate is going to be massively inflated if i only play soloq and don't always get my role. Making up some numbers, say I get riven in two thirds of my games, that means there's two thirds of my games where I'm playing at a diamond 3 level and one third where I'm playing at a plat 5 level. The exact stats are obviously impossible to know for sure, but lets say "plat 5 level play" has a 25% winrate at d4, and "d1 level play" has a 75% winrate at d4. If I play riven in just over half my games, then after enough games played i should average out at d3-ish mmr with a 65-70% winrate on riven. Does this mean riven is broken? No... It just means that I'm a d1 riven player with a vastly inflated winrate because all my riven games are spent stomping people two divisons lower than myself, and I'm going to keep stomping these worse people whenever i get riven because I lost most of my games when I don't play riven. These numbers are obviously pulled from thin air for illustrative purposes, but if you look at the vast majority of riven or yasuo or whatever one tricks who have a consistent 55+% winrate on their main but are also aren't in the process of climbing to their "true" mmr, they will have a ton of other champions with a sub 50% winrate which are keeping their from the mmr where they would have a 50% winrate with their main.
I wasn't discussing MMR in the slightest. Relevant to champion or position.
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On January 25 2019 05:49 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2019 05:44 killerdog wrote:On January 25 2019 05:29 Gahlo wrote:On January 25 2019 03:48 General_Winter wrote:
Looking at an extreme example may help illustrate this idea:
Imagine that half of all Riven games were people trying her for the first time and losing. And that the other half of her games were one tricks that had 10,000 games of experience on her and that they won at a 100% win rate. Her overall win rate would be 50%. But the champ would be busted beyond belief because everyone playing her correctly would have a 100% win rate.
All champions are like that to some degree, though obviously a lot less than in the example. There are some number of very new players who are dragging down the winrate and some number of players playing the champ correctly and winning at the champ’s actual win rate. We the players only can see the average of those two groups on win rate stat websites. So the average total winrate will always appear lower than it should be because new players drag down the rates. If a champ is very easy, new players don’t drag rates down as much. If the champ is hard, they drag it down more. So if you are just comparing average total win rates, you need to adjust for how easy the champ is. If you are looking at winrate for experienced players with similar numbers of games played on the champ you wouldn’t need to make that adjustment.
Actually not true, Champion.gg has win% based on game played. However, bringing up Riven is a good example, because people with 51+ games on her are winning about 54.5% of the time, while players in the 1-50 bracket are sub 50% with the aggregate winrate being 50.21% Non top 50 challenger one tricks having a 60+% winrate on a champion doesn't automatically mean that champion is broken. If I'm a hardcore riven onetrick my riven is diamond 1 level, and every other champion I play at a plat 5 level, then my riven winrate is going to be massively inflated if i only play soloq and don't always get my role. Making up some numbers, say I get riven in two thirds of my games, that means there's two thirds of my games where I'm playing at a diamond 3 level and one third where I'm playing at a plat 5 level. The exact stats are obviously impossible to know for sure, but lets say "plat 5 level play" has a 25% winrate at d4, and "d1 level play" has a 75% winrate at d4. If I play riven in just over half my games, then after enough games played i should average out at d3-ish mmr with a 65-70% winrate on riven. Does this mean riven is broken? No... It just means that I'm a d1 riven player with a vastly inflated winrate because all my riven games are spent stomping people two divisons lower than myself, and I'm going to keep stomping these worse people whenever i get riven because I lost most of my games when I don't play riven. These numbers are obviously pulled from thin air for illustrative purposes, but if you look at the vast majority of riven or yasuo or whatever one tricks who have a consistent 55+% winrate on their main but are also aren't in the process of climbing to their "true" mmr, they will have a ton of other champions with a sub 50% winrate which are keeping their from the mmr where they would have a 50% winrate with their main. I wasn't discussing MMR in the slightest. Relevant to champion or position.
Are you saying that a smurf playing against worse players is a good metric for judging champion balance based purely off the smurfs winrate, because if not then you misunderstood my post.
Unless you meant that riven was an example of a well balanced champion in the post i quoted in which case i misunderstood you. I assumed you were agreeing with the post you responded to.
Champions like riven tend to be outliers like this because becoming a better riven player includes a lot of skills like combos and animation cancels which don't transfer directly to your ability to play other champions, whereas becoming better at a "lower mechanical skill cap" champion means improving other aspects of your game which are more likely to translate into other champions/roles.
Hence one tricks of unique champions like riven are more likely to have a larger divergence in ability between their main and other champs, which leads to higher winrates on their one trick and lower winrates on everything else they play.
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Ok, let me give a kinda weird example.
Let's say everyone in solo queue is given a rating out of 10 for their performance. For your team to win a game of solo queue your team's rating sum must be higher than the other team.
If someone is playing Sion for the 3rd time, their rating is more likely to be above 5 than below.
If someone is playing Riven for the 3rd time, their rating is more likely to be below 5 than below.
That means that an easy champion that is easier, both at lower levels and at lower experience levels, will naturally have a higher winrate. Now imagine when at 300 games, the Sion player matches up against a 300 game Riven player, and they get shit on despite them being the same rank. That's because hard champs break the 10 cap after enough experience. They can theoretically become a 12/10 champ if you're good. To keep up for that, an easier champion needs to be more frequently rank higher in the 10 scale, therefore giving them a better average win rate.
Also, Riot doesn't care about champions being broken. They care about champs being unhealthy. That's why Lucian survives not being nerfed when he goes on his months-long 50% ban rate/30%+ pick rate shenanigans every year lol. I'd argue that was unhealthy but what do i know?
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lucian doesn't get nerfed because of affirmative action
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On January 25 2019 06:27 Slayer91 wrote:
lucian doesn't get nerfed because of affirmative action
Imagine nerfing lucian just after MLK day
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On January 25 2019 05:50 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2019 05:49 Gahlo wrote:On January 25 2019 05:44 killerdog wrote:On January 25 2019 05:29 Gahlo wrote:On January 25 2019 03:48 General_Winter wrote:
Looking at an extreme example may help illustrate this idea:
Imagine that half of all Riven games were people trying her for the first time and losing. And that the other half of her games were one tricks that had 10,000 games of experience on her and that they won at a 100% win rate. Her overall win rate would be 50%. But the champ would be busted beyond belief because everyone playing her correctly would have a 100% win rate.
All champions are like that to some degree, though obviously a lot less than in the example. There are some number of very new players who are dragging down the winrate and some number of players playing the champ correctly and winning at the champ’s actual win rate. We the players only can see the average of those two groups on win rate stat websites. So the average total winrate will always appear lower than it should be because new players drag down the rates. If a champ is very easy, new players don’t drag rates down as much. If the champ is hard, they drag it down more. So if you are just comparing average total win rates, you need to adjust for how easy the champ is. If you are looking at winrate for experienced players with similar numbers of games played on the champ you wouldn’t need to make that adjustment.
Actually not true, Champion.gg has win% based on game played. However, bringing up Riven is a good example, because people with 51+ games on her are winning about 54.5% of the time, while players in the 1-50 bracket are sub 50% with the aggregate winrate being 50.21% Non top 50 challenger one tricks having a 60+% winrate on a champion doesn't automatically mean that champion is broken. If I'm a hardcore riven onetrick my riven is diamond 1 level, and every other champion I play at a plat 5 level, then my riven winrate is going to be massively inflated if i only play soloq and don't always get my role. Making up some numbers, say I get riven in two thirds of my games, that means there's two thirds of my games where I'm playing at a diamond 3 level and one third where I'm playing at a plat 5 level. The exact stats are obviously impossible to know for sure, but lets say "plat 5 level play" has a 25% winrate at d4, and "d1 level play" has a 75% winrate at d4. If I play riven in just over half my games, then after enough games played i should average out at d3-ish mmr with a 65-70% winrate on riven. Does this mean riven is broken? No... It just means that I'm a d1 riven player with a vastly inflated winrate because all my riven games are spent stomping people two divisons lower than myself, and I'm going to keep stomping these worse people whenever i get riven because I lost most of my games when I don't play riven. These numbers are obviously pulled from thin air for illustrative purposes, but if you look at the vast majority of riven or yasuo or whatever one tricks who have a consistent 55+% winrate on their main but are also aren't in the process of climbing to their "true" mmr, they will have a ton of other champions with a sub 50% winrate which are keeping their from the mmr where they would have a 50% winrate with their main. I wasn't discussing MMR in the slightest. Relevant to champion or position. Are you saying that a smurf playing against worse players is a good metric for judging champion balance based purely off the smurfs winrate, because if not then you misunderstood my post. Unless you meant that riven was an example of a well balanced champion in the post i quoted in which case i misunderstood you. I assumed you were agreeing with the post you responded to. Champions like riven tend to be outliers like this because becoming a better riven player includes a lot of skills like combos and animation cancels which don't transfer directly to your ability to play other champions, whereas becoming better at a "lower mechanical skill cap" champion means improving other aspects of your game which are more likely to translate into other champions/roles. Hence one tricks of unique champions like riven are more likely to have a larger divergence in ability between their main and other champs, which leads to higher winrates on their one trick and lower winrates on everything else they play.
I'm discussing why just looking at flat winrates isn't a good way to judge how balanced a character is because of the circumstances of who is playing it. I was taking what they were saying and giving a more realistic version of the scenario because it is one I am familiar with.
Again, I don't care about the other champions these people play. I'm not discussing it.
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Some points:
-If a champion isn't picked very often, it can get a high winrate because people aren't used to playing against it.
-If a champion is strong in a certain meta, it can be "op" against the current popular champs but bad if they pick other champs. i.e rammus/malphite vs ad teams.
-A champion being "bad if played badly" like riven doesn't mean it's bad, you have to assume reasonable proficiency when analysing balance. On the other side, a champ being "good when played well" is an interesting one. If he's strong enough that a large % of players can learn to play it well enough to maintain the winrate it's probably "op". Buit if it's like riven with a low pick rate and high winrate for one tricks, most likely you can say that the winrate is only high because you have players with very high skill levels with that champion vs players who aren't used to playing against it.
Also, pushing a mechanically difficult champion to it's limits is a skill in itself that can justify your high winrate.
The "Easy champions are OP in low elo" statement is valid I would say. Because you have less ground to make mistakes they play on average better, but as long as the winrate isn't too crazy ( 55% I think is probably ok, if the pickrate isn't also insane) I don't think its a problem. They will increase in elo if they play easy champs a lot and then have to play easy champs vs slightly better players on less easy champs and it should balance out.
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Also we have to account for pro play. Its in Riot's interest and the viewers' interest that more things are playable so its not all Azir v. Ryze all day in the midlane. For that to be true, those guys are generally going to be pretty bad in soloQ. If they want to see Amumu or Janna or some other champs ever, they are going to be 52%+ etc etc
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-If a champion isn't picked very often, it can get a high winrate because people aren't used to playing against it.
I'd like some examples of this, because champion.gg lists many of the lowest win rate champs as some of the lowest play rates.
-If a champion is strong in a certain meta, it can be "op" against the current popular champs but bad if they pick other champs. i.e rammus/malphite vs ad teams.
That usually implies they are not op, but a solid counter pick. OP champs usually see high play/ban rates, or turn the meta around them (like S3 Renekton top).
Also, pushing a mechanically difficult champion to it's limits is a skill in itself that can justify your high winrate.
The problem with this is that LoL has had quite a few champions that fell into this category that were broken in the hands of those that could play them to their maximum potential. Examples include LB, every iteration of Ryze, Ahri, Cass, Azir, Yasuo etc. If playing a champion well means an auto win, or a very high chance of it, how is that balanced?
Also we have to account for pro play. Its in Riot's interest and the viewers' interest that more things are playable so its not all Azir v. Ryze all day in the midlane. For that to be true, those guys are generally going to be pretty bad in soloQ. If they want to see Amumu or Janna or some other champs ever, they are going to be 52%+ etc etc
Yes pro play is part of the balance equation, but is a completely different beast to soloQ. Makes balancing pretty hard for Riot.
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On January 25 2019 08:52 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +-If a champion isn't picked very often, it can get a high winrate because people aren't used to playing against it. I'd like some examples of this, because champion.gg lists many of the lowest win rate champs as some of the lowest play rates. Show nested quote +-If a champion is strong in a certain meta, it can be "op" against the current popular champs but bad if they pick other champs. i.e rammus/malphite vs ad teams. That usually implies they are not op, but a solid counter pick. OP champs usually see high play/ban rates, or turn the meta around them (like S3 Renekton top). Show nested quote +Also, pushing a mechanically difficult champion to it's limits is a skill in itself that can justify your high winrate. The problem with this is that LoL has had quite a few champions that fell into this category that were broken in the hands of those that could play them to their maximum potential. Examples include LB, every iteration of Ryze, Ahri, Cass, Azir, Yasuo etc. If playing a champion well means an auto win, or a very high chance of it, how is that balanced? Show nested quote +Also we have to account for pro play. Its in Riot's interest and the viewers' interest that more things are playable so its not all Azir v. Ryze all day in the midlane. For that to be true, those guys are generally going to be pretty bad in soloQ. If they want to see Amumu or Janna or some other champs ever, they are going to be 52%+ etc etc Yes pro play is part of the balance equation, but is a completely different beast to soloQ. Makes balancing pretty hard for Riot.
Answer to Q1: Let's look at mid for example. Rn the top 4 highest win rate champs are sub-2% pay rate. Safe to say, they're almost all being played by experienced players. The 5th highest is Galio who's P/B rate is 9% (i think almost everyone agrees he needs a nerf). Of course, mid is one of the most diverse in the game so let's check jungle (one of the lowest diversity roles traditionally). None of the top 5 win rate junglers has a greater than 5% pay rate. The highest play rate is Jax, who abuses an OP set of items in both top and jungle, but when picked correctly, matches up very well against most of the meta junglers who tend to be AA-based.
Q2: They aren't balanced. That's why they were nerfed to a status where playing this champion to its best gives you a higher chance of winning than someone playing a champion to its best that's easier to play.
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On January 25 2019 08:52 DarkCore wrote:
I'd like some examples of this, because champion.gg lists many of the lowest win rate champs as some of the lowest play rates.
I mean, I said they CAN have high winrates, not that they will. Loads of examples. Support kennen, Mid zilean, Top wukong.
On January 25 2019 08:52 DarkCore wrote:
That usually implies they are not op, but a solid counter pick. OP champs usually see high play/ban rates, or turn the meta around them (like S3 Renekton top).
You can be good against the meta champs without necessarily being a counter.
On January 25 2019 08:52 DarkCore wrote:
The problem with this is that LoL has had quite a few champions that fell into this category that were broken in the hands of those that could play them to their maximum potential. Examples include LB, every iteration of Ryze, Ahri, Cass, Azir, Yasuo etc. If playing a champion well means an auto win, or a very high chance of it, how is that balanced?
If it's too strong at all levels you can nerf it. If it's strong in the hands of a good player but not too strong at the top level isn't not an issue.
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Sylas is now out and after some testing he can gank with 100% health (in practice tool aka NO LEASH) on a lvl 3 rush if he run past chickens for the Talisman heal with a full camp hit Q.
I cant see this champion ever be balanced lol
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On January 26 2019 02:30 Jek wrote:
Sylas is now out and after some testing he can gank with 100% health (in practice tool aka NO LEASH) on a lvl 3 rush if he run past chickens for the Talisman heal with a full camp hit Q.
I cant see this champion ever be balanced lol
which role is supposed to be his main? mid?
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On January 26 2019 03:15 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2019 02:30 Jek wrote:
Sylas is now out and after some testing he can gank with 100% health (in practice tool aka NO LEASH) on a lvl 3 rush if he run past chickens for the Talisman heal with a full camp hit Q.
I cant see this champion ever be balanced lol which role is supposed to be his main? mid?
No idea. Looks like he can be played top, mid and jungle in various ways.
EDIT: From my testing, I have only been able to test against immediate bots (picked them a standard comp) since I expect him to have 100% ban for a while.
With a bruiser build he can 1v5 in a kinda full build situation (I had full build they were 4, got too lazy to wait).
With a tank build he feels tankier than a "real" tank due to his shield AND heal.
With good targets to steal ults from he's bonkers in teamfights.
Haven't tried a full AP build yet.
He mows through jungle after first clear (havent tried to optimize runes). Used Transcendence on the bruiser, jungle and tank builds since all what seems to be good items on him have CDR.
Granted the tests were only from bots he feels silly overtuned. From my limited testing he feels like the old bruiser Ekko expect tankier with more damage but trades Ekko's slippery ult for his own utility ult.
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If what you say is true, then I'm might have to start not banning Kha, because tank Ekko was an abomination, and I thought Riot learned that champs like that are beyond stupid.
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I expect Riot to nerf his either his shield or heal or even both. He feel waaaay too tanky for what he offers.
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Anyone else getting super buggy pick and bans since Sylas came out? I played last night beforehand and there weren't too many issues, now I'm alternating between being stuck at the pick screen unable to hover, unable to ban, or sometimes unable to pick a champion.
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On January 26 2019 11:00 loSleb wrote:
Ask LEC.
my fucking sides
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How're everyone's promos going? Had a chance to start in diamond then inted two games and am now on tilt in Plat 1 zzzz
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I can't play ranked, Rito has a habit of not registering my inputs despite a smooth 30 fps 40 ping. I'm too scared to go into ranked and lose because Riot decided I wanted to walk face first into the enemy without casting abilities/autoing
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On January 26 2019 14:30 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I can't play ranked, Rito has a habit of not registering my inputs despite a smooth 30 fps 40 ping. I'm too scared to go into ranked and lose because Riot decided I wanted to walk face first into the enemy without casting abilities/autoing
I wouldn't call 30 fps smooth, but I've been getting the same thing.
Its kinda a little slight off the fucking earth shoot your brain into the sun tilting. Just like randomly for 3s game takes no input from you, meanwhile you at 180 FPS with 60 ping and your third party voice coms call is fine, and your router shows no change in service or significant packet loss.
I'm glad its not just me.
On January 26 2019 11:41 AdsMoFro wrote:
How're everyone's promos going? Had a chance to start in diamond then inted two games and am now on tilt in Plat 1 zzzz
3-0 in Soloqueue, 0-5 in flex. Eks Dee. I keep getting pretty nice Nidalee games in Soloqueue. So much easier to win on her when people playing 4real-zy, tbh.
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On January 26 2019 14:30 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I can't play ranked, Rito has a habit of not registering my inputs despite a smooth 30 fps 40 ping. I'm too scared to go into ranked and lose because Riot decided I wanted to walk face first into the enemy without casting abilities/autoing
Have you checked if you're dropping packets? You can get some pretty detailed data from your gamelogs using this site:
http://logsoflag.com/
On January 26 2019 11:41 AdsMoFro wrote:
How're everyone's promos going? Had a chance to start in diamond then inted two games and am now on tilt in Plat 1 zzzz
I dont wanna talk about it.....
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On January 26 2019 15:09 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2019 14:30 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I can't play ranked, Rito has a habit of not registering my inputs despite a smooth 30 fps 40 ping. I'm too scared to go into ranked and lose because Riot decided I wanted to walk face first into the enemy without casting abilities/autoing Have you checked if you're dropping packets? You can get some pretty detailed data from your gamelogs using this site: http://logsoflag.com/Show nested quote +On January 26 2019 11:41 AdsMoFro wrote:
How're everyone's promos going? Had a chance to start in diamond then inted two games and am now on tilt in Plat 1 zzzz I dont wanna talk about it.....
http://logsoflag.com/#dIY5mMFYSPT
Thats the last game where I had big input lag. I think its a Riot problem.
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Hmm. Was the input lag consistent through the game? There's some clusters of lost packets.
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On January 26 2019 15:51 Jek wrote:
Hmm. Was the input lag consistent through the game? There's some clusters of lost packets.
I'd say once every minute or so all game?
Idk, not the biggest deal, just super frustrating.
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On January 26 2019 15:51 Jek wrote:
Hmm. Was the input lag consistent through the game? There's some clusters of lost packets.
For me its pretty random. It could happen a few times a game, or it could happen every minute. Its weird because I get all visual indications that the movement/abilities are going off (the arrows that all point where you clicked or the ability zone things when you cast abilities) so I know SOME part of Riot coding knows what I'm doing, its just the game refuses to do it
EDIT: Wow I lost ~57 packets/minute in the game I just checked. But this is a new (probably month) old problem that I haven't had in the past
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I had this two years ago in Germany, it basically ended my soloQ experience, played aram for months and got flamed for going afk every few minutes. Packet loss with 25 ping. Then one day it just disappeared. I don't think it's entirely Riot, more ISPs routing your data through dumb paths that are then overloaded or bouncing your data across the country for no reason.
Although with the current client bugs, I wouldn't put it beneath them that they fucked up their connection either for the early season.
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I've had this issue for around 6 months. Idk.
My connection is always rock solid 60 ping.
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On January 26 2019 11:41 AdsMoFro wrote:
How're everyone's promos going? Had a chance to start in diamond then inted two games and am now on tilt in Plat 1 zzzz
"Let's play flex with our usuual squad"
1 game later: half the people are low gold and the other high plat so we literally cant queue as 5 in any configuration of 8 people
thanks riot
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For the first time I'm doing my placements right at the start of the season and they feel no different than before. Maybe it's all in our heads.
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On January 26 2019 18:14 iCanada wrote:
I've had this issue for around 6 months. Idk.
My connection is always rock solid 60 ping.
I had it for almost a year haha, along with the previous two years where my ping would fluctuate between 30 and 5000 (sometimes I would get to watch the game, but none of my inputs would be accepted).
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I didn’t notice this initially, but the patch had no direct Karthus nerfs. I can verify that he continues to be bonkers in the jungle if they don’t hard invade you early. Clears are pretty good and you just press R whenever a fight happens. Easy kills and assists. You are always in the right place with perfect pathing to use your ult
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so now with the positional ranking, people who played fill will rank up way slower and fill is not recommended ? Also when you are in promos for let say Top, but you get mid where you are not in promos, what happens? Also can you win or lose promo games if you are not playing the role that the promo is about? since you lose and win points for all roles
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On January 27 2019 11:27 General_Winter wrote:
I didn’t notice this initially, but the patch had no direct Karthus nerfs. I can verify that he continues to be bonkers in the jungle if they don’t hard invade you early. Clears are pretty good and you just press R whenever a fight happens. Easy kills and assists. You are always in the right place with perfect pathing to use your ult
Karthus needs ult cd to get doubled or damage halved, so he can be forced to actually play the game to be useful
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On January 27 2019 19:39 M2 wrote:
so now with the positional ranking, people who played fill will rank up way slower and fill is not recommended ? Also when you are in promos for let say Top, but you get mid where you are not in promos, what happens? Also can you win or lose promo games if you are not playing the role that the promo is about? since you lose and win points for all roles
why do you rank slower in filled?
if you fill and win all your games shouldnt you climb at the same rate as when you specify a position?
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On January 27 2019 19:39 M2 wrote:
so now with the positional ranking, people who played fill will rank up way slower and fill is not recommended ? Also when you are in promos for let say Top, but you get mid where you are not in promos, what happens? Also can you win or lose promo games if you are not playing the role that the promo is about? since you lose and win points for all roles
Being in a promo for a role and playing other roles doesn't give a win, idk at the moment if it gives extra lp for after the promo is done though. Not sure if losing a game in a different role does anything.
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On January 27 2019 20:57 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 19:39 M2 wrote:
so now with the positional ranking, people who played fill will rank up way slower and fill is not recommended ? Also when you are in promos for let say Top, but you get mid where you are not in promos, what happens? Also can you win or lose promo games if you are not playing the role that the promo is about? since you lose and win points for all roles why do you rank slower in filled? if you fill and win all your games shouldnt you climb at the same rate as when you specify a position?
because fill theoretically will put you on different roles every game and you will get points for the role you get and very few for the rest, so the person who get top most of the time will earn lp for top faster, so he will be higher elo for top than a fill guy, but the fill guy will have higher average elo for all roles, something like that I guess
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On January 27 2019 19:41 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 11:27 General_Winter wrote:
I didn’t notice this initially, but the patch had no direct Karthus nerfs. I can verify that he continues to be bonkers in the jungle if they don’t hard invade you early. Clears are pretty good and you just press R whenever a fight happens. Easy kills and assists. You are always in the right place with perfect pathing to use your ult Karthus needs ult cd to get doubled or damage halved, so he can be forced to actually play the game to be useful
I think the ult pressure on its own is fine, the real problem IMO is that he farms so fast without it. IMO his clear needs to be nerfed about 15-20% in terms of speed for him to be balanced.
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On January 28 2019 04:06 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 20:57 evilfatsh1t wrote:On January 27 2019 19:39 M2 wrote:
so now with the positional ranking, people who played fill will rank up way slower and fill is not recommended ? Also when you are in promos for let say Top, but you get mid where you are not in promos, what happens? Also can you win or lose promo games if you are not playing the role that the promo is about? since you lose and win points for all roles why do you rank slower in filled? if you fill and win all your games shouldnt you climb at the same rate as when you specify a position? because fill theoretically will put you on different roles every game and you will get points for the role you get and very few for the rest, so the person who get top most of the time will earn lp for top faster, so he will be higher elo for top than a fill guy, but the fill guy will have higher average elo for all roles, something like that I guess
has this been implemented already?
now that i think about it ive played like 8 placement games and i havent seen anything about my rank that pertains to a specific role. i queued mid and fill so ive played a couple roles but my lp gain didnt seem that different
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On January 28 2019 09:59 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 19:41 M2 wrote:On January 27 2019 11:27 General_Winter wrote:
I didn’t notice this initially, but the patch had no direct Karthus nerfs. I can verify that he continues to be bonkers in the jungle if they don’t hard invade you early. Clears are pretty good and you just press R whenever a fight happens. Easy kills and assists. You are always in the right place with perfect pathing to use your ult Karthus needs ult cd to get doubled or damage halved, so he can be forced to actually play the game to be useful I think the ult pressure on its own is fine, the real problem IMO is that he farms so fast without it. IMO his clear needs to be nerfed about 15-20% in terms of speed for him to be balanced.
Can Rito add something like Q does 50%/40%/30%/20%/10% less damage to monsters? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On January 28 2019 11:25 Ethelis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2019 09:59 iCanada wrote:On January 27 2019 19:41 M2 wrote:On January 27 2019 11:27 General_Winter wrote:
I didn’t notice this initially, but the patch had no direct Karthus nerfs. I can verify that he continues to be bonkers in the jungle if they don’t hard invade you early. Clears are pretty good and you just press R whenever a fight happens. Easy kills and assists. You are always in the right place with perfect pathing to use your ult Karthus needs ult cd to get doubled or damage halved, so he can be forced to actually play the game to be useful I think the ult pressure on its own is fine, the real problem IMO is that he farms so fast without it. IMO his clear needs to be nerfed about 15-20% in terms of speed for him to be balanced. Can Rito add something like Q does 50%/40%/30%/20%/10% less damage to monsters? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Could just make it so his e doesn't return mana on jungle monsters.
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On January 28 2019 12:49 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2019 11:25 Ethelis wrote:On January 28 2019 09:59 iCanada wrote:On January 27 2019 19:41 M2 wrote:On January 27 2019 11:27 General_Winter wrote:
I didn’t notice this initially, but the patch had no direct Karthus nerfs. I can verify that he continues to be bonkers in the jungle if they don’t hard invade you early. Clears are pretty good and you just press R whenever a fight happens. Easy kills and assists. You are always in the right place with perfect pathing to use your ult Karthus needs ult cd to get doubled or damage halved, so he can be forced to actually play the game to be useful I think the ult pressure on its own is fine, the real problem IMO is that he farms so fast without it. IMO his clear needs to be nerfed about 15-20% in terms of speed for him to be balanced. Can Rito add something like Q does 50%/40%/30%/20%/10% less damage to monsters? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Could just make it so his e doesn't return mana on jungle monsters.
Dont think it'd do much. There's so much mana sustain from the jungle item. They could just make the double damage bonus on isolated Qs only apply to champs.
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I'm not even sure if Karthus is strong or if they've just nerfed other junglers so damn hard. Idk, Karthus Jungle been the same for like 5+ seasons now, and it used to be super troll, but now its like super meta S+ tier pick.
But junglers gank too much. Couldn't be because farming the jungle is kinda useless since they've hard nerfed XP for 3 seasons in a row.
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On January 28 2019 17:25 iCanada wrote:
I'm not even sure if Karthus is strong or if they've just nerfed other junglers so damn hard. Idk, Karthus Jungle been the same for like 5+ seasons now, and it used to be super troll, but now its like super meta S+ tier pick.
But junglers gank too much. Couldn't be because farming the jungle is kinda useless since they've hard nerfed XP for 3 seasons in a row.
Dark Harvest, Presence of Mind and Ultimate Hunter didn't exist back then.
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Idk, those runes good on him sure, but like... they aren't that good on him that they turn him from the karthus jungle of old (ie playable but like... kinda troll) to what he is now.
For example take a look at this game Saint played tonight;
https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2963137791/221453053?tab=overview
34 DH stacks, total damage dealt by DH was only 2447. Presence of Mind only granted him 299 seconds of reduced CD (~3x more ults all game). Admittedly, Ultimate Hunter kinda OP, but even still if it was that strong you'd see other junglers with game changings ulti's be stronger (thinking Amumu / Wukong / Zac / Sej / Gragas... who are all the same or worse statistically this season compared to earlier seasons). But I'm not sure something like DH/presence of mind is any stronger than say Death-Fire Grasp or Strength of Ages and their associated perks.
Definitely they synergize with him well, i just think they less of a factor than other things. I could be wrong though.
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You have to realize...
To win the game, only winning the game matters.
Karthus ult directly damages the enemies. Therefore, you win.
Deaths don't matter anymore. Deciding the game does.
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Yeah, Karthus' passive rework really changed the game, how could i forget about that?
...wait, what?
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On January 28 2019 18:23 iCanada wrote:Idk, those runes good on him sure, but like... they aren't that good on him that they turn him from the karthus jungle of old (ie playable but like... kinda troll) to what he is now. For example take a look at this game Saint played tonight; https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2963137791/221453053?tab=overview34 DH stacks, total damage dealt by DH was only 2447. Presence of Mind only granted him 299 seconds of reduced CD (~3x more ults all game). Admittedly, Ultimate Hunter kinda OP, but even still if it was that strong you'd see other junglers with game changings ulti's be stronger (thinking Amumu / Wukong / Zac / Sej / Gragas... who are all the same or worse statistically this season compared to earlier seasons). But I'm not sure something like DH/presence of mind is any stronger than say Death-Fire Grasp or Strength of Ages and their associated perks. Definitely they synergize with him well, i just think they less of a factor than other things. I could be wrong though.
They combined all solved his earlier issues by making his early game a lot stronger and his gaming changing ultimate available much more often without being forced into building CDR. Dark Harvest isn't really there for the teamfight dream penta proc, he already do more than enough damage in those situations - it's for his early game and most importantly his first few ultimates. The rework of Dark Harvest was gigantic buff to jungle Karthus since he now actually have a keystone, the 2447 Saint had from it was damage he simply wouldn't have had before.
While it was "only" 5 minutes reduced cooldown, you dont spam it whenever it's up just having it available is a huge threat sort of like Shen's ultimate. Whenever it's off cooldown it's basically a passive that reads "your opponents have 30-50% reduced max HP". Karthus' ultimate is something everyone on the enemy team no matter where he is have to play around and no ward is going to protect you from it either, it being off cooldown is much stronger than anything other ultimate in the game.
The time jungle Karthus took off they also unlocked the adaptive stats so he can grab Prescion Tree without getting the useless AS% further buffing his earlygame.
It was a combination of a lot of small things that all was a direct buff to Karthus while not really doing all that much of anything to any other champions. While all the strong junglers took nerfs here and there Riot basically took the hardest scaling champion in the game (that just happens to be capable in the jungle) and threw heaps of buffs on him.
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What are people looking for, Conqueror levels of damage from DH, Karthus ult every minute? 2500 more damage is a lot when you consider his ultimate already does a ton of damage, That Saint game he did over 1k damage a minute, this is pretty normal for Karthus jungle post 20 minutes, hence he is so insane. Saint didn't even farm that heavily, imagine if he had hit his max build 5 minutes earlier because his team funneled everything into him. Enemy team was forced to buy 3 hexdrinkers else him and Kai'Sa would've bursted everyone down.
DH and Presence of Mind are so powerful on him because they are incredibly snowbally: if Karthus gets early kills for whatever reason, then all of a sudden you're dealing with a jungler who is at least even on levels with the mid lane or higher, with an ult that scales super hard and hits everyone. Now the enemy laners have to be extremely careful when fighting, even just going for big trades, because there is a serious threat of an all in. Irelia mid will blow most champions up with a Karthus ult.
50 bonus damage by mid game doesn't sound like a lot, but if your ult already does 500 damage, it can be the little extra to blow up the enemy ADC.
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Luckily, OCE internet is so slow that we've not caught up on Karthus jg. Have seen it like once in 30+ games.
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Wait, are you suggesting that internet speed = brain lag? Or that people don't watch VODs because of awful speeds.
Haha, even TFBlade complaining about jungle Karthus right now
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hes saying were internet explorer and everywhere else is chrome
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On January 29 2019 02:45 DarkCore wrote:
Wait, are you suggesting that internet speed = brain lag? Or that people don't watch VODs because of awful speeds.
Haha, even TFBlade complaining about jungle Karthus right now
In general, OCE is pretty late to catch up on meta changes, I feel.
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I heard some people over there still play reksai smh.
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On January 29 2019 17:40 loSleb wrote:
I heard some people over there still play reksai smh.
Lol, wonder which idiot still plays that trash champ...
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So Sylas has been out for a bit, thoughts on him? His kit feels pretty obnoxious to play against, but somehow he seems to be completely irrelevant in most games. If they buffed his numbers, he could be strong, but right now he seems awfully useless.
It's just weird when he jumps on you, and then does... nothing lol.
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On January 30 2019 04:56 DarkCore wrote:
So Sylas has been out for a bit, thoughts on him? His kit feels pretty obnoxious to play against, but somehow he seems to be completely irrelevant in most games. If they buffed his numbers, he could be strong, but right now he seems awfully useless.
It's just weird when he jumps on you, and then does... nothing lol.
I think he's strong but people are playing and building him wrong.
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On January 30 2019 05:35 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2019 04:56 DarkCore wrote:
So Sylas has been out for a bit, thoughts on him? His kit feels pretty obnoxious to play against, but somehow he seems to be completely irrelevant in most games. If they buffed his numbers, he could be strong, but right now he seems awfully useless.
It's just weird when he jumps on you, and then does... nothing lol. I think he's strong but people are playing and building him wrong.
What do you think is optimal out of curiosity? I've been going RoA/Mask first on a match dependent basis, then going iceborn and either Morellos or more tank from there and I've been finding myself to be very very relevant.
I should say I'm also not sold on masteries yet. I go phase rush but if someone could convince me of something better I'd love to try it and compare
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probably everyone is going full damage on a melee without any real escapes and inting
should probably play him like red kayn
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Eyeballing his abilities on the wiki it seems like they have similar base damages and similar ratios as Ecko, so I’d imagine a similar build should be good.
Even the passive is a bit similar. Ecko needs to hit 3 times, Sylas needs to hit 3 times once after spacing each of his abilities to get full value out of his passive.
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Ivern seems quite strong.
You kinda just troll around and your team hard carries you. The shield feels so good. 4 second CD op.
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On January 30 2019 05:59 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2019 05:35 Jek wrote:On January 30 2019 04:56 DarkCore wrote:
So Sylas has been out for a bit, thoughts on him? His kit feels pretty obnoxious to play against, but somehow he seems to be completely irrelevant in most games. If they buffed his numbers, he could be strong, but right now he seems awfully useless.
It's just weird when he jumps on you, and then does... nothing lol. I think he's strong but people are playing and building him wrong. What do you think is optimal out of curiosity? I've been going RoA/Mask first on a match dependent basis, then going iceborn and either Morellos or more tank from there and I've been finding myself to be very very relevant. I should say I'm also not sold on masteries yet. I go phase rush but if someone could convince me of something better I'd love to try it and compare
I think the pure AP build I see 95% of the time is wrong. If you're just going raw damage Diana, Kassadin, Fizz and Ekko are all AP melee champs better at blowing people up. With both a heal and shield Sylas scale so well off resists and CDR it's actually insane and I dont think you should ever buy more than 1 item without resists (Void, Liandry or Morello depending on the individual game).
Since literally all the items that (I think) are good on him have CDR he's a natural Transcendence user so even with a fairly tanky build he will end up with a significant amount of AP.
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Doing a little more thought, I think ardent might be pretty good on him. The second passive obviously goes to waste unless you steal a soraka ult or something, but the item is super gold efficient even without its passive. And the +heal / shield power is probably a huge stat given how often Sylas can proc both while trading.
Edit: this seems whacky, but I actually think ardent, Shurelia, unholy grail gives you a ton of useful stats with more AP than ludens + banshee at the same cost plus you get a bunch of hp, mana regen, Health regen and heal / shield power which is probably really good with his kit. You would be in trouble if game went to six items but that’s pretty rare.
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positional ranked is getting shit on in korea atm.
people figured out that you can swap lanes early enough in the game to protect your lp in your main lane. if you start losing early as a mid you literally just run it down bot and start taking cs etc and you dont lose points in mid lane.
also mmr gain is bugged so that some guys get retarded gains but next to no losses and so there are players in masters who have 40% winrates.
joke system
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On February 02 2019 13:24 evilfatsh1t wrote:
positional ranked is getting shit on in korea atm.
people figured out that you can swap lanes early enough in the game to protect your lp in your main lane. if you start losing early as a mid you literally just run it down bot and start taking cs etc and you dont lose points in mid lane.
also mmr gain is bugged so that some guys get retarded gains but next to no losses and so there are players in masters who have 40% winrates.
joke system
Yup, a bunch of issues. Riot's said they've fixed em for next patch but cmon man, why the fuck is this coming out when season starts? You just had a two month period to test this shit out and not affect ranked. How the fuck did they not see that coming too? Actual incompetency.
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I find its a typical situation in organizations like this. Doesn't anyone remember google+? Riot is a company that systematically has not hired (or has fired) "negative nancies".
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God, I'm so happy I'm on EUW. I also read a story on reddit yesterday that a guy got support, but because his ADC never connected, the system thought he was playing Marksmen and lost points for that position instead. Like I said previously, there are so many exceptions to the system that Riot has to account for, that it will basically be impossible or excessively time consuming/waste of time and resources to get it to work.
I've also heard different high elo streamers complain that the early season this year is way more lopsided that ever before, teams of D1/2 players getting matched against 3 top 50 S8 Challenger players, but they're still losing/gaining 15-20 LP despite it being an obvious stomp.
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Has anyone been playing the new aurf mode? I’m found it surprisingly not fun. Urf obviously isn’t balanced, but you could at least pick strong champs. With aurf if you get a squishy target and they have Assassins you just die instantly over and over because their engage is always up unless you play so far back as to make it very hard to contribute damage in a fight. I like ARAM and I like urf, but I think the combination is the worst of both worlds rather than the best.
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On February 02 2019 23:17 General_Winter wrote:
Has anyone been playing the new aurf mode? I’m found it surprisingly not fun. Urf obviously isn’t balanced, but you could at least pick strong champs. With aurf if you get a squishy target and they have Assassins you just die instantly over and over because their engage is always up unless you play so far back as to make it very hard to contribute damage in a fight. I like ARAM and I like urf, but I think the combination is the worst of both worlds rather than the best.
Never liked URF let alone a mode where I could get a trash champ and just get fkd for an entire game, no thanks.
In other news, Rek'sai ult bugged as shit on this patch. Makes it so sad to play  Constantly getting given full cd if u press r as someone is exiting vision. Lost two games off it already.
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I think nidalee is also bugged, she's not utter garbage when played by players who can't play her? :thinking:
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Tried the mode out, it's OK but gets boring fast. Every game is pretty much a slaughter, either because somechamps are uber tier strong while others are useless, or because people playing for fun while others try hard.
Nidalee isn't even that strong, you should experience full AD trist as a melee champion, she kills people in her ult animation.
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Judging from my games and what I see on streams, I have the feeling that since S9 started, bot lane is again the one who solo decides games. The difference from before is that now, the one which does not feed wins
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EPT
