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On January 15 2019 11:53 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2019 10:51 iCanada wrote:
Why does Riot still place all new accounts at silver MMR? I dont understand.. I thought they wanted to fix matchmaking for new players, but they just give new accounts Iron IV league rating and the same Silver II MMR? LOL. Whats the point? I just got my buddy into the game, and we finally got to level 30 on his acc / my smurf. Riot has literally 200 games of data collected on you at this point...
Why dont they use the aggregate champion/role data (KDA/KP/Utility score/Damage per death/damage share/Damage per gold/early gold advantage / early cs advantage / cs per minute / objective control ratio / vision score / roam dominance / kill conversion) they collect to pull your MMR one direction or something? For example... if you have a 8+ CS/min, clearly you aren't an iron player. If you have 2 CS/min, clearly you aren't a gold player either.
Would be a far better experience if they put players in atleast a similair skill band. As much as I hard stomp silver players, I'm sure a legit new player probably gets hard stomped by Silver players too. They have the data, why wouldn't they use it? Makes no sense to me. I thought they wanted to fix this for new players? Because somewhere in silver is the average MMR of the playerbase. The % drop off of the ranked pie after Bronze and Silver is massive.
thats what icanada is arguing against though. automatically placing accounts at that mmr because its the average makes for a shitty ranked experience until your mmr properly calibrates to your skill.
i agree with icanada that ranked and normals shouldnt be divided like it is. what a waste of data
also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
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On January 15 2019 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2019 11:53 Gahlo wrote:On January 15 2019 10:51 iCanada wrote:
Why does Riot still place all new accounts at silver MMR? I dont understand.. I thought they wanted to fix matchmaking for new players, but they just give new accounts Iron IV league rating and the same Silver II MMR? LOL. Whats the point? I just got my buddy into the game, and we finally got to level 30 on his acc / my smurf. Riot has literally 200 games of data collected on you at this point...
Why dont they use the aggregate champion/role data (KDA/KP/Utility score/Damage per death/damage share/Damage per gold/early gold advantage / early cs advantage / cs per minute / objective control ratio / vision score / roam dominance / kill conversion) they collect to pull your MMR one direction or something? For example... if you have a 8+ CS/min, clearly you aren't an iron player. If you have 2 CS/min, clearly you aren't a gold player either.
Would be a far better experience if they put players in atleast a similair skill band. As much as I hard stomp silver players, I'm sure a legit new player probably gets hard stomped by Silver players too. They have the data, why wouldn't they use it? Makes no sense to me. I thought they wanted to fix this for new players? Because somewhere in silver is the average MMR of the playerbase. The % drop off of the ranked pie after Bronze and Silver is massive. thats what icanada is arguing against though. automatically placing accounts at that mmr because its the average makes for a shitty ranked experience until your mmr properly calibrates to your skill. i agree with icanada that ranked and normals shouldnt be divided like it is. what a waste of data also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
And... its not only normal MMR they can leverage as an MMR scaling lever... they literally have performance data normalized by rank for every champion...
You tell me, based on my smurfs last 10 nidalee normal games data; What is my mains ELO?
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +If you guessed platinum, you'd be correct!
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On January 15 2019 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:
also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
Why would the adc who used to buy it (sivir, ashe, xayah,jhin) not buy it anymore?
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On January 15 2019 17:17 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2019 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:
also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item Why would the adc who used to buy it (sivir, ashe, xayah,jhin) not buy it anymore?
Hmm the problem becomes where do you fit it. It's 3200G compared to Stormazor at 2800G (Which all champs except Ashe/Vayne/Kai'sa and a few others buy). Stormrazor also has built in AS, meaning as a first item its extremely compelling. The question is if you can get away with Stormrazor into ER into IE maybe? Or even leaving IE till 4th item and getting your zeal item...which sucks.
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I also never understood why riot collects a bunch of stats and gives you a rating after every game, but doesn't use it to place people in initial divisions. You really think a dude who can farm 9cs/min is silver? First 20 games in ranked every season should look at those stats and change your MMR gains.
Essence reaver sucks because AD build Is crap atm, you don't want the item after or before stormrazor, and lategame you want an IE or Arpen. Games rarely go late enough to consider buying it, despite its real power spike being in the mid game. If lethality came back, we might see it as a third item.
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On January 15 2019 17:37 AdsMoFro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2019 17:17 NpG)Explosive wrote:On January 15 2019 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote:
also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item Why would the adc who used to buy it (sivir, ashe, xayah,jhin) not buy it anymore? Hmm the problem becomes where do you fit it. It's 3200G compared to Stormazor at 2800G (Which all champs except Ashe/Vayne/Kai'sa and a few others buy). Stormrazor also has built in AS, meaning as a first item its extremely compelling. The question is if you can get away with Stormrazor into ER into IE maybe? Or even leaving IE till 4th item and getting your zeal item...which sucks.
I would pick it first, like old ER. Currently 3200G is also the price of botrk and some champions still buy it first but don't necessarily forfeit the lane (hello Lucian).
If you compare the proposed ER as your only item compared to pre 8.11 ER
pros:
- cost 200G less
- gives 20% CDR immediatly rather than 10%
- has an extra 5% crit
- mana sustain is not tied to getting crits
cons:
- lost 10 AD
It's not stormrazer but it sounds like a stronger 1 item spike than the old ER.
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Not thrilled with the Spear of Shojin change. It's basically current ER, which Riven builds, but -5AD for no cost change.
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I hate the removal of spectral waltz from PD. That ability is why the item is called phantom dancer and it’s absolutely core to the kit of all melee crit users. It represents a huge satisfaction spike where you go from being creep blocked and hating your life to actually being able to get to walk where you want to go.
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I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win.
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I dont care if this should have been in the awesome moments thread but....
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/LsrmgEz.png)
I got nothing more to add. :D
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On January 15 2019 23:04 Ansibled wrote:
I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win.
Right, but if you're silver with 10cs/min and you lose, your roam dominance / kda / vision / objective control / objective damage / damage share / gold difference @ 10 etc all are probably complete garbage or you'd hard stomp any play you forced. If all those stats are high and you lose, you're basically in true elo hell, imo.
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On January 16 2019 05:28 JimmiC wrote:
I guess if you are getting that at the expense of your team and you are the lone carry than make one big derp and the 5 can grab baron and roll over your underfed rest of your team for the win. But it would take consistently getting way ahead of your whole team and than consistently having a major fuck up in the mid/late.
But i mean, then all you need to do is learn to not hard throw and buddy would hard climb. Doing all the above and getting all those stats high legit means you know the fundamentals well. You could argue the player should climb up create less chinsy games regardless.
On order to have both CS you need to know the game at a solid level mechanically. If you're getting a gold differential, you're leveraging trading or pathing to create gold leads. If your vision score is good you're leveraging your gold lead to create vision for you and deny it for them. If your kda and vision are good your abusing your vision to create picks. If your kill conversion is high you're using your picks to get objective that win you the game. That's the entire game fundamentally. I don't think you can have all those stats high by "playing for them."
And even if you could, i still that'll that'd make you a better player regardless.
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On January 16 2019 05:05 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2019 23:04 Ansibled wrote:
I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win. Right, but if you're silver with 10cs/min and you lose, your roam dominance / kda / vision / objective control / objective damage / damage share / gold difference @ 10 etc all are probably complete garbage or you'd hard stomp any play you forced. If all those stats are high and you lose, you're basically in true elo hell, imo.
Exactly, the chance of all those skills being below silver while averaging high cs is just too unlikely, Riot should ignore fringe cases. Besides, they should look at the stats for start of season, not the whole time. It's just to filter out real newbies from smurfs and higher elo people on a losing streak.
While they're at it, they could also fix normal match making, it's beyond broken.
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On January 16 2019 05:05 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2019 23:04 Ansibled wrote:
I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win. Right, but if you're silver with 10cs/min and you lose, your roam dominance / kda / vision / objective control / objective damage / damage share / gold difference @ 10 etc all are probably complete garbage or you'd hard stomp any play you forced. If all those stats are high and you lose, you're basically in true elo hell, imo.
Even with all of those, you still only have maybe a 60% win rate. There are your teams 4 other players, inters, feeders, leavers, the other team, people on coms, smurfs, mouse bugs, etc.
60% win rate gets you two extra wins every 10 games or about 40LP if you are gaining 20 for a win. It still takes 25 games to go up a division at that rate and 100 games to go up a whole league (eg from silver 4 to gold 4). Presumably if Riot has all those other stats they should be able to deduce that our hypothetical 60% win rate player belongs much higher in fewer than 100 games. 20 games should be more than enough if the stats are consistently high.
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60% winrate in silver 4 is maybe barely gold 4 in skill. 100 games for that seems fine. If you duo and are both significantly better you should win 90%+ and gain a full division every 15-20 games.
Stats don't mean shit, only winrate does. Your rank only says how good you are at winning.
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whats the point to have grandmaster, if it is merged with master and challenger as one division? I mean Iron has its sub divisions, promos ets, so more or less it skews the ladder, but what does grandmaster brings if it works the same way master worked before?
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To further compound the stupidity of putting Master below Challenger.
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On January 16 2019 19:51 Gahlo wrote:
To further compound the stupidity of putting Master below Challenger.
hahaha I laughed out loud on that, no joke hhaha
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Challenger makes a lot of sense as the top of the ladder actually
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wxdU1nv.png)
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