EPT[Patch 8.14] SSG Worlds Skin Release Discussion - Page 2
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
i dont think rito cares too much about junglers getting fed from jungle farm and taxing and split pushing or whatever | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
•High gold efficiency with poor slot efficiency •Cheap stat allocation with powerful active effects This means that even though supports have low gold income they can still have access to powerful items. Laners with high income can go these items but they quickly become inefficient to use(Drums) so the power spike of buying them have to win the game or you are just super behind. Riot went with another option of just increasing support gold income. They changed how passive gold generation works by increasing it and shifting some gold off minion farming. They removed wards and instead created a trinket which is essentially income for a support. They created support items that just generation income while being efficient. Then they kept making cheapest efficient items. The problem is whenever these items are good, laners just buy them since there's no real loss of slot efficiency in league. We've seen this time and time again. Locket top/jungle back in the day to Knights Vox and new locket top laners etc. Personally think the slot efficiency/item actives is the way to go to make the roles items more interesting. Removing supports ability to dominate vision also removed agency from the role. I know why they did it but it forced them to then add more power in other ways. This has all culminated into the situation we find ourselves in where supports are just insanely strong. How do they fix this? I don't know if they can really without overhauling their system or doing something really innovative. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8939 Posts
On July 19 2018 21:05 Gahlo wrote: Because it's causing all this funneling nonsense. actually supports being rich caused problems before this funneling nonsense. the whole "better bot lane wins game despite every other lane losing" thing is due to supports being too fed. the adc with better survivability/peel just outlasts everyone. we havent seen a proper assassin meta in ages because supports get their adc buff items too quickly. the issue with lol atm is just champion design (or game design, whichever way you see it). there are over 100 champions but outside of a handful of champions, there arent enough team compositions that would incentivise you to pick a specific champion despite it being considered "off-meta". few champions are actually good at one thing and bad at the other. in the end it all just comes down to how riot scales the damage numbers and how easy it is for a specific champ to land their damage (skillshots vs aoe vs targeted). dota doesnt have "funneling" issues as bad as lol because it has heroes that can deal with strategies no matter how shit they are in any given patch. every "strategy" has a counter to it that is viable at almost any time because of the way the heroes and game is just naturally designed. league just suffers from always having a group of champions that benefit more than everyone else when riot implements a balance change to sway the meta and as a result, creation of a new "hot" strategy. thats just fundamentally poor game design | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On July 19 2018 22:19 evilfatsh1t wrote: actually supports being rich caused problems before this funneling nonsense. the whole "better bot lane wins game despite every other lane losing" thing is due to supports being too fed. the adc with better survivability/peel just outlasts everyone. we havent seen a proper assassin meta in ages because supports get their adc buff items too quickly. the issue with lol atm is just champion design (or game design, whichever way you see it). there are over 100 champions but outside of a handful of champions, there arent enough team compositions that would incentivise you to pick a specific champion despite it being considered "off-meta". few champions are actually good at one thing and bad at the other. in the end it all just comes down to how riot scales the damage numbers and how easy it is for a specific champ to land their damage (skillshots vs aoe vs targeted). dota doesnt have "funneling" issues as bad as lol because it has heroes that can deal with strategies no matter how shit they are in any given patch. every "strategy" has a counter to it that is viable at almost any time because of the way the heroes and game is just naturally designed. league just suffers from always having a group of champions that benefit more than everyone else when riot implements a balance change to sway the meta and as a result, creation of a new "hot" strategy. thats just fundamentally poor game design My post was by no means me expressing that it wasn't a problem until now. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Many role mechanics, especially role items, do not support the current approach, because by definition, role mechanics enforce a meta. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On July 19 2018 22:19 evilfatsh1t wrote: actually supports being rich caused problems before this funneling nonsense. the whole "better bot lane wins game despite every other lane losing" thing is due to supports being too fed. the adc with better survivability/peel just outlasts everyone. we havent seen a proper assassin meta in ages because supports get their adc buff items too quickly. I think the "better bot wins" meme is mostly thanks to Censer period and the often ignored fact that botlane winning means you have two champions that win their lane and the enemy has two champions that lose their lane. If your jungler and mid/top lose the game is/was very very hard to win especially when one of them are a hardcarry like Yi for instance, ADCs are by design hardcarries. Assassins are perfectly fine in soloQ Talon, both the smite or flash variants, is one of the strongest if not the strongest midlaner right now. Pro games are an entirely different matter. I'd love to see more viable hardcarries in the other roles rather than nerfs. Rito is honestly way too fast with the nerfhammer. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8939 Posts
and the bot lane wins game thing came from a winning combination of jg/mid/top being unable to outcarry a single winning bot lane. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On July 20 2018 00:55 evilfatsh1t wrote: soloq is hardly a good way to judge whether the game is designed well or not, but even then youve only specified talon out of many assassin champs. all the rest have been sidelined for either bruisers or mages with good waveclear and roam (something talon also happens to excel at). zoe is another thats picked but thats cause her ranged cc and damage is just stupid. and the bot lane wins game thing came from a winning combination of jg/mid/top being unable to outcarry a single winning bot lane. Assassins are perfectly viable mid: Ekko, Zed, Katarina, Wukong do I really need to go on? The point is the top dog generally is considered to be Talon an assassin. Assassins ALL roam and shove. The most consistent rank 1 in NA is an Akali main for crying out loud. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one actually playing the game on this board. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8939 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
Sure you'll have preferences and people will still play what they feel like, but the large majority plays what is viable. No one wants to play something that feels weak AND unfun. And even if it's fun, if it's weak enough, it becomes unfun if you get clapped every time you play the game with that champion (or at the very least get clapped enough; >60% I guess, or should that be higher?) | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
Can standard/hyper adcs (with their support complement) ever exist in a mage/bruiser botlane meta, or are those mutually exclusive? If the scenario is able to exist, it would certainly be the most succesful balancing ever, right? It would be even better if more adc's other than ezreal & lucian mid could sit in solo lanes! But to get back to my point: maximizing a parameter, say viability, will never mean complete viability. The way champions have their specific niche implies total viability can't be attained. But in soloq I feel everything is viable anyway because it's literally a coinflip (even more than it used to be) lol. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
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