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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
We don't really scrim LCS teams because they don't want to scrim us. We can't really do much about that. We just try to improve as much as we can. He goes on to say that he believes EFX is mechanically sound and just needs to work on teamwork and communication and can be a top tier team this split. Source: https://esports.yahoo.com/froggen-lcs-week-2-180000877.html (starts at 3:31) Discussion: http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/518310-2017-esports-general-discussion#14 | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On February 02 2017 11:35 cLutZ wrote: I am shocked, SHOCKED, that the LCS owners are trying to make Echo Fox fail. I feel pretty ignorant about this. I have some notion of who the owners of about half of the teams are, but I've no idea about how they get along with one another. All 9 other owners ganging up the one team is both surprisingly harsh and unprecedented- my intuition tells me that Echo Fox must have been stepping on a lot of toes lately, to manage to piss off so many other owners so hard. I know about the letter that Echo Fox refused to sign, and that's almost certainly one factor that led to this decision, but I doubt that's all there is to it. I also doubt we'll ever get much more info on this topic; this is all the result of some very private dealings which are probably quite awkward to explain in detail to an audience that isn't versed in the nuances of team relations. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On February 05 2017 14:08 Zato-1 wrote: I feel pretty ignorant about this. I have some notion of who the owners of about half of the teams are, but I've no idea about how they get along with one another. All 9 other owners ganging up the one team is both surprisingly harsh and unprecedented- my intuition tells me that Echo Fox must have been stepping on a lot of toes lately, to manage to piss off so many other owners so hard. I know about the letter that Echo Fox refused to sign, and that's almost certainly one factor that led to this decision, but I doubt that's all there is to it. I also doubt we'll ever get much more info on this topic; this is all the result of some very private dealings which are probably quite awkward to explain in detail to an audience that isn't versed in the nuances of team relations. Here is the situation, IMO. #1 There is a massive inflation in player salaries, team valuation, etc. Whether this is a bubble or actually sustainable growth is for a more locked in person than me to know. #2 Endemic LCS owners have trouble keeping up. Thus outside investment is needed to fund the teams. #3 Rick Fox, instead of investing started his own team. This is the opposite of what they would have wanted. #4 On top of that they more likely than not tried to poach a player. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Although, RIck Fox has stated publicly before that he is for franchising. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On February 05 2017 14:39 cLutZ wrote: Here is the situation, IMO. #1 There is a massive inflation in player salaries, team valuation, etc. Whether this is a bubble or actually sustainable growth is for a more locked in person than me to know. #2 Endemic LCS owners have trouble keeping up. Thus outside investment is needed to fund the teams. #3 Rick Fox, instead of investing started his own team. This is the opposite of what they would have wanted. #4 On top of that they more likely than not tried to poach a player. 4) no. Riot has said that's an untrue rumor. https://www.google.com/amp/wwg.com/esports/amp/2016/12/16/riot-clarifies-poaching-issue-between-echo-fox-and-adrian/ Echo Fox were trying to sign adrian at the same time as p1. If p1 had released that they signed him that's great , but they hadn't proven they had done so to riot at the time echo fox had offered him papers to sign . Announcements don't mean shit, unless there's truth behind it. Venues used to falsely advertise they had Jimi Hendrix, the doors , etc playing and then you'd get there and be like wtf . A lot of people were surprised Woodstock delivered on their announcement , for instance . Was it poaching ? No. Was it slightly unethical ? Maybe. You be the judge . | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On February 06 2017 08:26 Bill Murray wrote: 4) no. Riot has said that's an untrue rumor. https://www.google.com/amp/wwg.com/esports/amp/2016/12/16/riot-clarifies-poaching-issue-between-echo-fox-and-adrian/ Echo Fox were trying to sign adrian at the same time as p1. If p1 had released that they signed him that's great , but they hadn't proven they had done so to riot at the time echo fox had offered him papers to sign . Announcements don't mean shit, unless there's truth behind it. Venues used to falsely advertise they had Jimi Hendrix, the doors , etc playing and then you'd get there and be like wtf . A lot of people were surprised Woodstock delivered on their announcement , for instance . Was it poaching ? No. Was it slightly unethical ? Maybe. You be the judge . I don't have the information, IMO, to judge that fully. However, its my thinking that #3 is the most important factor. The endemic teams and managers want the first big money guy who tries to go it alone to fail, so in the future Shaq, Cuban, etc will buy into their teams or otherwise let them wet their beaks. Most in esports are terribly incompetent and Rick Fox doing well proves that to outside investors beyond any reasonable doubt. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 06 2017 07:18 Nemireck wrote: It doesn't make much sense to me to pick a fight with Rick Fox' team. Dude is a great ambassador for eSports in general and the only guy the mainstream media will touch in an interview (You don't see Regi doing segments on The View, for instance.). The other owners should be working with this guy to continue to grow the entire market. The exact opposite actually. The scene growing like that is beneficial to the players and the fans but detrimental to the owners. What happens if 9 of Rick Fox's closest friends see EF and go "man I should go do that"? Overnight they could buy out every team in the league that doesn't have a competitive sponsor (i.e. Dig having the 76ers, FlyQuest, etc). These people have more money in their bank accounts than TSM has made in its entire life. There is no reason that TSM, C9 and the like should be nice to them, for their own sake. I'm not saying I LIKE that, I'm saying I understand from a business standpoint why you would tell your team they aren't allowed to scrim EF | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On February 06 2017 08:26 Bill Murray wrote: 4) no. Riot has said that's an untrue rumor. https://www.google.com/amp/wwg.com/esports/amp/2016/12/16/riot-clarifies-poaching-issue-between-echo-fox-and-adrian/ Echo Fox were trying to sign adrian at the same time as p1. If p1 had released that they signed him that's great , but they hadn't proven they had done so to riot at the time echo fox had offered him papers to sign . Announcements don't mean shit, unless there's truth behind it. Venues used to falsely advertise they had Jimi Hendrix, the doors , etc playing and then you'd get there and be like wtf . A lot of people were surprised Woodstock delivered on their announcement , for instance . Was it poaching ? No. Was it slightly unethical ? Maybe. You be the judge . Well as long as Riot said it's not poaching I guess everything is fine and all the other LCS teams will go back to being friends with Echo Fox. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 08 2017 00:38 JimmiC wrote: Because some one with of tons of money wanting to buy their brand is a bad thing? What makes them more money in the long run, selling their brand or being able to keep it and get profits from the LCS once franchising starts? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On February 08 2017 03:40 JimmiC wrote: Depends on if LoL growth is a bubble or sustainable. If your talking game changing money I would sell 75% of it bet set up and then have the other 25% incase the growth continues. Its irrelevant for the purposes of Echo Fox. If Zuckerberg, Page, Gates, etc all bought NBA franchises, people would be happy, if they all started teams without paying some sort of franchise fee and signed some good players, the NBA owners would be not happy. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On February 08 2017 04:09 JimmiC wrote: Because all the others paid a franchise fee. This is not the NBA or NFL. This is a 4 year old business model that no one knows if it is at all sustainable. In England someone can buy a shit tier 2 team load it with players and move up to the premiership. That is a far better comparison. Basically happened with Manchester city. It is petty and foolish to try to black ball EF. They should instead see how it can benefit them. Yes, and lots of EPL vested interests dislike what Manchester City (ManU, who I think shares an ownership group with some American teams has openly talked about franchising the EPL) did. LCS owners already think they own the slots they "earned" and they don't want teams entering the space before they can convince Riot to give them a franchise model to suckle on. Fox represents the nightmare scenario for current LCS owners where not only do they no longer own an LCS slot, they can't even sell their LCS slot because outside investors say, "what value do you really bring?" | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9141 Posts
Such strategy could work in Korea where the teams are actually the best but in NA it shouldn't work unless Riot decides to switch to franchising model. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35118 Posts
On February 08 2017 07:09 Sent. wrote: Their logic is that "if you can't scrim with the best, you won't be the best" therefore it should be impossible to keep a team in LCS without cooperating with the old guard because atm they're the best. It's like they're forgetting all you need to do get into the LCS is buying 2 decent foreigners and signing some shitters from local solo Q to fill the remaining slots. Such strategy could work in Korea where the teams are actually the best but in NA it shouldn't work unless Riot decides to switch to franchising model. How's that working out for Dignitas? They have, at worst, a top 5 top laner in the world in Ssumday and a solid jungler in Chaser. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
dig will surely stay in the LCS with their level of play right now. they aren't great but its more than enough to smack around any challenging challenger team. also chaser has been meh. he's a bottom of the half jg in NA right now imo. | ||
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