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Gameplay discussion should go in the Gameplay Discussion thread. Gameplay discussion includes, but is not exclusive to: - Runes and masteries
- Item builds
- Jungle paths
- Playstyle and skill order for new/updated champions
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On January 26 2016 23:54 Volband wrote:
The idea is good, I can definitely feel the positive vibes from it, I just wish it was less tedious. Like, a bit less LCS feel for saving some time.
Also, apparently you can pick free champions no again. Wow, Riot went out of their way to make it CasualQueue. Will see if I can actually lock in my first ever ranked Swain top on my smurf.
edit: holy shit, I could... sooo stupid.
I like a lot of the things they put into it, like the lane view and preselecting roles. But i don't like the menu they put it into.
It's trying to turn every ranked match into LCS hype, but i just want to log in and play.
My 2 biggest gripes are the giant 1 champ window in the middle instead of showing all available champs during select phase and how tiny they made the chat.
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Australia18228 Posts
On January 27 2016 00:18 AlterKot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 23:05 Inflicted wrote:On January 26 2016 10:49 AlterKot wrote:So I've been talking about making a "white people teamfighting" gifs forever now and since I finally figured out a fast and convienient method, I've also decided to finally try a video form. This is just a proof-of-concept but I'll appreciate some feedback  I'll contain it in the video/images thread or make a separate one if I actually end up making more of these but wanted to get some attention for now :p I don't think the first one deserves to be there since it was a bug that split the two of them. Bug?
Zion said they both TPed to the same ward but he ended up over the wall while HuHi didn't.
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On January 27 2016 01:04 Inflicted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 00:18 AlterKot wrote:On January 26 2016 23:05 Inflicted wrote:On January 26 2016 10:49 AlterKot wrote:So I've been talking about making a "white people teamfighting" gifs forever now and since I finally figured out a fast and convienient method, I've also decided to finally try a video form. This is just a proof-of-concept but I'll appreciate some feedback I'll contain it in the video/images thread or make a separate one if I actually end up making more of these but wanted to get some attention for now :p I don't think the first one deserves to be there since it was a bug that split the two of them. Bug? Zion said they both TPed to the same ward but he ended up over the wall while HuHi didn't.
Interesting. I'll have to pay attention to stuff like that, although I'd argue they should've noticed that and not go in.
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They actually said when first talking about the new champ select months ago that they didn't want an "all but X" option because then most people would opt out of the "unpopular" roles (jungle and support) and they wanted people to use "fill" instead (paraphrasing).
On January 27 2016 00:47 Vorenius wrote:
I have no interest in queuing for mid, but without doing so I won't get to play top.
Which is exactly the crux of the problem for me, and it'd be surprising if Riot didn't see it coming. On the other hand, as long as people don't pick up on it and bring it up, they can just ignore that flaw of the system and pretend everything works well.
It's obviously anecdotal evidence, but nowhere near as often as "advertised" have I faced champ select abuse, trolls forcing dodges, or people yelling at each other because "I called X first!"
My most played champions last season were actually Maokai and Braum by far (Nautilus as 3rd but I was jungling him early in the season before they smashed tanks and made the pay-off not worth it).
In context, it means I was often 3+ pick, almost never called a role or champion, preferred to pick my lane/champion to accomodate my teammates/teamcomp, and actually pretty often picked Braum when I was 1st or 2nd pick (because I dislike picking blindly), and I still ended up with my most played champion in one of the two most sought-after roles.
If I wanted to go mid, maybe I wouldn't get it in my first or second game, but an opportunity would arise every so often, if only by virtue or being 1st pick sometimes.
So when I see top-voted comments on reddit being people cheering for the new champ select because it's so good and they never ever have conflict in champ select anymore (with "usually people would often fight for roles" stated more or less clearly), I'm left wondering what magical fairyland I log in that I didn't have flaming and infighting in champ select every 3rd or 4th game.
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On January 27 2016 01:13 Alaric wrote:They actually said when first talking about the new champ select months ago that they didn't want an "all but X" option because then most people would opt out of the "unpopular" roles (jungle and support) and they wanted people to use "fill" instead (paraphrasing). Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 00:47 Vorenius wrote:
I have no interest in queuing for mid, but without doing so I won't get to play top. Which is exactly the crux of the problem for me, and it'd be surprising if Riot didn't see it coming. On the other hand, as long as people don't pick up on it and bring it up, they can just ignore that flaw of the system and pretend everything works well.
I mean, I understand but I'm not really seeing it as a "problem". The most popular roles will have a bigger pool and therefore will have a longer wait. That's not a bad thing, that's just how it is.
There should probably be a way to just queue for one role with the caveat on the screen like "selecting only one role may create longer queue times" or something like that. But I'm kinda non-plussed by the fact that I queue Top/Support and only ended up with 1 Top game out of 5 or so played last night.
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On January 27 2016 01:31 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 01:13 Alaric wrote:They actually said when first talking about the new champ select months ago that they didn't want an "all but X" option because then most people would opt out of the "unpopular" roles (jungle and support) and they wanted people to use "fill" instead (paraphrasing). On January 27 2016 00:47 Vorenius wrote:
I have no interest in queuing for mid, but without doing so I won't get to play top. Which is exactly the crux of the problem for me, and it'd be surprising if Riot didn't see it coming. On the other hand, as long as people don't pick up on it and bring it up, they can just ignore that flaw of the system and pretend everything works well. I mean, I understand but I'm not really seeing it as a "problem". The most popular roles will have a bigger pool and therefore will have a longer wait. That's not a bad thing, that's just how it is. There should probably be a way to just queue for one role with the caveat on the screen like "selecting only one role may create longer queue times" or something like that. But I'm kinda non-plussed by the fact that I queue Top/Support and only ended up with 1 Top game out of 5 or so played last night.
It's not about long wait time. If I queue for Top/jungle I'll get a game after <1 minute as a jungler. But very rarely will I get top. At least so far.
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Well, to compare it with before:
- "fixed" queue time, but you may not always get your role. It depends on how high you are in the pick order and the willingness of the people higher to cooperate
Now:
- you can choose your role amongst two sets (either you're top/mid, or you're support/jungle/AD), the set determines your queue time, it can be very long.
- if you want a short queue time (for convenience or because you don't have much time, say the guy playing a couple games after coming home from work), pick from the second set exclusively.
So you're in essence limited to only certain roles, whereas before you could "opt out" of longer queue times (if you're not in masters) by lowering your chance of getting a specific desired role (essentially 20%+ regardless; atm testimonies suggest people picking top/mid as primary or support/fill as secondary barely reach that for their primary role!).
Well... actually, there is one solution. A way to always get the role you desire, while still enjoying short queue times.
Queue as 4-5 people.
See what they did there?
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Either way the current system is a big improvement. I can definitely live with it as a support and jungle main. There are ways to provide the players more choice... but it'd make queue more of a pain in the butt so it's a give-take situation I think.
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If you are a top main just do what I do, Top/Mid as secondary I got top every single game and queue times were reasonable.
If I did for some reason get mid I can play pocket vlad pretty well though, until the rework that is. then i have no idea what ill do
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But that's the thing, though: it only works because you're gaming the system.
It's not a good system nor an improvement if it forces you to "cheat" it, and hoses you if you like the wrong combination of role (one of top/mid and one of jungle/AD/support) because most of the time it'll just force you into your jungle/AD/support choice.
Just because you happen to play the two most demaned roles and it's good for you doesn't mean it works well-if Riot doesn't give a fuck about me being unable to actually help my team (by filling anything but AD, a broader selection than what is currently offered) because I'm in the minority, then they shouldn't give a fuck about it working well for you either because you're also in a vast minority.
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On January 27 2016 02:39 Alaric wrote:
But that's the thing, though: it only works because you're gaming the system.
It's not a good system nor an improvement if it forces you to "cheat" it, and hoses you if you like the wrong combination of role (one of top/mid and one of jungle/AD/support) because most of the time it'll just force you into your jungle/AD/support choice.
Just because you happen to play the two most demaned roles and it's good for you doesn't mean it works well-if Riot doesn't give a fuck about me being unable to actually help my team (by filling anything but AD, a broader selection than what is currently offered) because I'm in the minority, then they shouldn't give a fuck about it working well for you either because you're also in a vast minority.
I really wouldn't call that "gaming" or "cheating".
I want to play a solo lane. I know to get one, I have to queue for them and exclude the other, less popular roles. I guarantee those roles but take a longer queue time in return. That's not gaming, that's just how it works.
It really sounds like you're just reaching for reasons to be pissed at this. Sure, a more nuanced Fill system or Single-Role options would be nice, but if the complaint is "I'm mad because I can't queue Top/Support and get Top", then that's a bit of a nitpicky complaint.
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On January 27 2016 02:39 Alaric wrote:
But that's the thing, though: it only works because you're gaming the system.
It's not a good system nor an improvement if it forces you to "cheat" it, and hoses you if you like the wrong combination of role (one of top/mid and one of jungle/AD/support) because most of the time it'll just force you into your jungle/AD/support choice.
Just because you happen to play the two most demaned roles and it's good for you doesn't mean it works well-if Riot doesn't give a fuck about me being unable to actually help my team (by filling anything but AD, a broader selection than what is currently offered) because I'm in the minority, then they shouldn't give a fuck about it working well for you either because you're also in a vast minority.
Why wouldn't they just let you pick only one position, or 4? Seems like this game theory style was intended. Possibly so Lyte can write a paper about it.
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I just pick mid jungle and always get my preferred jungle.
Lol.
It's busted, but if you use logic you can get it to do what you want.
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They said they don't want to let you pick only one position because then some of them would be abandoned (and it's true that there are a lot more potential supports if you let people pick X/support compared to just one role, if X still weights more).
They don't want to let you exclude one role because of the "everything but support" syndrome (which I personnally witnessed more than "mid or feed" or people fighting over a role), assuming everyone would refuse support so the queue times would be horrendous, so they force "fill" as secondary instead.
On January 27 2016 02:43 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 02:39 Alaric wrote:
But that's the thing, though: it only works because you're gaming the system.
It's not a good system nor an improvement if it forces you to "cheat" it, and hoses you if you like the wrong combination of role (one of top/mid and one of jungle/AD/support) because most of the time it'll just force you into your jungle/AD/support choice.
Just because you happen to play the two most demaned roles and it's good for you doesn't mean it works well-if Riot doesn't give a fuck about me being unable to actually help my team (by filling anything but AD, a broader selection than what is currently offered) because I'm in the minority, then they shouldn't give a fuck about it working well for you either because you're also in a vast minority. I really wouldn't call that "gaming" or "cheating". I want to play a solo lane. I know to get one, I have to queue for them and exclude the other, less popular roles. I guarantee those roles but take a longer queue time in return. That's not gaming, that's just how it works. It really sounds like you're just reaching for reasons to be pissed at this. Sure, a more nuanced Fill system or Single-Role options would be nice, but if the complaint is "I'm mad because I can't queue Top/Support and get Top", then that's a bit of a nitpicky complaint.
No, you don't get it. It's not "I want top or mid, so I pick top or mid", but "I want top, so I pick mid because it's the least likely role for me to get out of the other 4" (switch top/mid as needed).
And if "I want top or jungle", then you'll almost always get jungle. Put top primary? Like to switch them up? Well, too bad buddy, you're screwed.
In your quote, you're assuming I queue top/support to get top. Na, if I did that, ideally, according to the system, I'd like top but would be fine with any of the two. But in reality I'll almost never get top.
Meanwhile, you don't pick top/mid because you want top but are fine with any of the two, you want top and gamble on mid being crowded enough that it'll up your chances of getting top compared to any other choice.
That's why it's gaming the system. It's not "I want top or mid" but "I want top, I use mid to that end", which isn't how the system is intended.
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On January 27 2016 03:13 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 02:43 Requizen wrote:On January 27 2016 02:39 Alaric wrote:
But that's the thing, though: it only works because you're gaming the system.
It's not a good system nor an improvement if it forces you to "cheat" it, and hoses you if you like the wrong combination of role (one of top/mid and one of jungle/AD/support) because most of the time it'll just force you into your jungle/AD/support choice.
Just because you happen to play the two most demaned roles and it's good for you doesn't mean it works well-if Riot doesn't give a fuck about me being unable to actually help my team (by filling anything but AD, a broader selection than what is currently offered) because I'm in the minority, then they shouldn't give a fuck about it working well for you either because you're also in a vast minority. I really wouldn't call that "gaming" or "cheating". I want to play a solo lane. I know to get one, I have to queue for them and exclude the other, less popular roles. I guarantee those roles but take a longer queue time in return. That's not gaming, that's just how it works. It really sounds like you're just reaching for reasons to be pissed at this. Sure, a more nuanced Fill system or Single-Role options would be nice, but if the complaint is "I'm mad because I can't queue Top/Support and get Top", then that's a bit of a nitpicky complaint. No, you don't get it. It's not "I want top or mid, so I pick top or mid", but "I want top, so I pick mid because it's the least likely role for me to get out of the other 4" (switch top/mid as needed). And if "I want top or jungle", then you'll almost always get jungle. Put top primary? Like to switch them up? Well, too bad buddy, you're screwed. In your quote, you're assuming I queue top/support to get top. Na, if I did that, ideally, according to the system, I'd like top but would be fine with any of the two. But in reality I'll almost never get top. Meanwhile, you don't pick top/mid because you want top but are fine with any of the two, you want top and gamble on mid being crowded enough that it'll up your chances of getting top compared to any other choice. That's why it's gaming the system. It's not "I want top or mid" but "I want top, I use mid to that end", which isn't how the system is intended.
we know its a garbage system, but hopefully this thread is for solutions occasionally. Until they fix it the best way to play is preferred role/mid
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And if you want mid... lol sucks to be you.
I don't know why they don't just allow queuing for a single role. I think you'll see people main Sup just for the queues. See WoW.
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On January 27 2016 03:16 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 03:13 Alaric wrote:On January 27 2016 02:43 Requizen wrote:On January 27 2016 02:39 Alaric wrote:
But that's the thing, though: it only works because you're gaming the system.
It's not a good system nor an improvement if it forces you to "cheat" it, and hoses you if you like the wrong combination of role (one of top/mid and one of jungle/AD/support) because most of the time it'll just force you into your jungle/AD/support choice.
Just because you happen to play the two most demaned roles and it's good for you doesn't mean it works well-if Riot doesn't give a fuck about me being unable to actually help my team (by filling anything but AD, a broader selection than what is currently offered) because I'm in the minority, then they shouldn't give a fuck about it working well for you either because you're also in a vast minority. I really wouldn't call that "gaming" or "cheating". I want to play a solo lane. I know to get one, I have to queue for them and exclude the other, less popular roles. I guarantee those roles but take a longer queue time in return. That's not gaming, that's just how it works. It really sounds like you're just reaching for reasons to be pissed at this. Sure, a more nuanced Fill system or Single-Role options would be nice, but if the complaint is "I'm mad because I can't queue Top/Support and get Top", then that's a bit of a nitpicky complaint. No, you don't get it. It's not "I want top or mid, so I pick top or mid", but "I want top, so I pick mid because it's the least likely role for me to get out of the other 4" (switch top/mid as needed). And if "I want top or jungle", then you'll almost always get jungle. Put top primary? Like to switch them up? Well, too bad buddy, you're screwed. In your quote, you're assuming I queue top/support to get top. Na, if I did that, ideally, according to the system, I'd like top but would be fine with any of the two. But in reality I'll almost never get top. Meanwhile, you don't pick top/mid because you want top but are fine with any of the two, you want top and gamble on mid being crowded enough that it'll up your chances of getting top compared to any other choice. That's why it's gaming the system. It's not "I want top or mid" but "I want top, I use mid to that end", which isn't how the system is intended. we know its a garbage system, but hopefully this thread is for solutions occasionally. Until they fix it the best way to play is preferred role/mid
I think the system works fine if you actually are ok playing between two roles, even if one is more rare than others. I queued Top/Support and did get Top. It's not impossible.
The only people the system doesn't really work for is people who are set on only playing the one role with reluctance to do others.
And yes, I agree that sometimes it is fun to switch it up and play something that isn't Support/Jungle, and in those times you have to do Top/Mid or Mid/Top or whatever, but that could be easily fixed with just a Single-Role queue, which I do expect to come before the season is through.
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On January 27 2016 03:21 iCanada wrote:
And if you want mid... lol sucks to be you.
I don't know why they don't just allow queuing for a single role. I think you'll see people main Sup just for the queues. See WoW.
And is that a bad thing?
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I like the system. Just needs some refinement imo. I do miss the timers of the old system where you can get the role you want and have some flexibility of swapping if you think your maining into a bad matchup.
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isn't the solution here to just play two roles, queue for them, and then be happy when you get one of the two roles you were looking for? that's what I've been doing and it works out pretty well.
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EPT
