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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On January 24 2016 11:03 IMoperator wrote: I dont get why toxicity is such an important issue for riot. like really, do people get THAT offended over people calling them names in a game that they completely quit playing? it's bad for getting new people into the game when your whole team tells you to kill yourself. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On January 24 2016 11:30 Frolossus wrote: it's bad for getting new people into the game when your whole team tells you to kill yourself. What a logical and relevant counter argument Haven't been by a computer recently, are there any tf changes next patch? Also any updates on if they've fixed new matchmaking for euw yet? | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On January 24 2016 11:30 Frolossus wrote: it's bad for getting new people into the game when your whole team tells you to kill yourself. that wouldnt really happen if they were truly new since they wouldn't be playing with many smurfs. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On January 24 2016 11:03 IMoperator wrote: I dont get why toxicity is such an important issue for riot. like really, do people get THAT offended over people calling them names in a game that they completely quit playing? Yes. They really do quit playing games when people call them names. Most people don't like being called names and when they have a choice between entertainment option A where they get called names, and entertainment option B where they don't get called names, they pick option B, as it turns out. I realize that most of the people on this forum and most of our gamer friends don't see it that way, but we must remember that just by posting here we are not representative of "most people". Most people do not feel like being called names is an acceptable downside to playing a game they want to play. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:01 Ketara wrote: Yes. They really do quit playing games when people call them names. Most people don't like being called names and when they have a choice between entertainment option A where they get called names, and entertainment option B where they don't get called names, they pick option B, as it turns out. I realize that most of the people on this forum and most of our gamer friends don't see it that way, but we must remember that just by posting here we are not representative of "most people". Most people do not feel like being called names is an acceptable downside to playing a game they want to play. Those people often are not any of the same population we play with in ranked though. If you opt into being competitive in a competitive mode that directly tells you that you are good/bad via a ranking system, but you want people to ignore your mistakes entirely, not only not insulting you for them, but also not even bringing them up at all. That group of people and ranked shouldnt overlap. if you want a fun game with no competitive environment then don't play ranked, dont go into ranked and threaten to report people for telling you that you need to sit back and leech xp in lane because you fed. No one wants to sit there and be harassed all game, but they'll go to the report function and sit there telling the person being an ass they will report them, egging them on and encouraging more harassment in game instead of just muting them and playing the game like normal. If someone says something mean to you in a competitive mode, and you don't just ignore it, click mute and keep playing, you are just as much to blame. it really does take 2 people for a flamer to get something out of flaming. Hell running to the report function at the first sign of anything not accepting of your mistakes is just as toxic as telling someone to kill themselves. it's just in a different way. You are a bad neighbor if you blast music at all hours AND if you call the cops on a family afternoon picnic because the guests parked in front of your house on the cul de sac. Both are toxic. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On January 24 2016 11:42 killerdog wrote: What a logical and relevant counter argument Haven't been by a computer recently, are there any tf changes next patch? Also any updates on if they've fixed new matchmaking for euw yet? not really a counter argument to anything. riot is concerned with toxicity because it makes fewer people want to learn the game or continue playing it. it's only natural that in the interest of keeping and expanding their playerbase that it would be addressed. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:06 PrinceXizor wrote: Those people often are not any of the same population we play with in ranked though. If you opt into being competitive in a competitive mode that directly tells you that you are good/bad via a ranking system, but you want people to ignore your mistakes entirely, not only not insulting you for them, but also not even bringing them up at all. That group of people and ranked shouldnt overlap. if you want a fun game with no competitive environment then don't play ranked, dont go into ranked and threaten to report people for telling you that you need to sit back and leech xp in lane because you fed. No one wants to sit there and be harassed all game, but they'll go to the report function and sit there telling the person being an ass they will report them, egging them on and encouraging more harassment in game instead of just muting them and playing the game like normal. If someone says something mean to you in a competitive mode, and you don't just ignore it, click mute and keep playing, you are just as much to blame. it really does take 2 people for a flamer to get something out of flaming. Hell running to the report function at the first sign of anything not accepting of your mistakes is just as toxic as telling someone to kill themselves. it's just in a different way. You are a bad neighbor if you blast music at all hours AND if you call the cops on a family afternoon picnic because the guests parked in front of your house on the cul de sac. Both are toxic. 4 years of ranked play tells me otherwise. Nowhere in the "yo this is ranked, srs business" blurb that Riot puts up there that nobody reads does a checkbox that says "I consent to my teammates being assholes because I fucked up my mechanics and died." already marked. Also, when people feel like they're being attacked online the most common response is to attack back, whether or not it's relevant or true. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:09 Frolossus wrote: not really a counter argument to anything. riot is concerned with toxicity because it makes fewer people want to learn the game or continue playing it. it's only natural that in the interest of keeping and expanding their playerbase that it would be addressed. All they've done is made it so certain buzzwords get you auto banned now, and the threshhold for what reports punish is way lower, (note, lower, not stricter.). I've had just as many people tell me they hope i'll die or that someone should kill themselves in the last few weeks as i did in the same period two years ago. The only thing they've changed is that people don't say rude words, and you get wayyyyy fewer people giving actual advice to other players in soloq then before, because if you try and be helpful, and the guy is too tilted to realise and reports you, you get warned/banned. Personally I'd prefer to go back to where someone can call me a retard, but also isn't afraid to explain why I'm a retard, then this current over PC situation where nobody is allowed to even point out flaws because it could be interpreted as a microagression. Besides, trolls/afk's make me want to not play 100000x the amount a flamer or rager does, and yet I often hit the same guys trolling game after game for weeks on end. You'd think if Lyte was actually focussing on improving gameplay and not just playing god with his social engineering research, he'd put some time into that. Nobodies disagreeing that riot should ban people who tell you to kill yourself, but that's not at all what the vast majority of their "anti toxicity reforms" have actually targeted. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:17 killerdog wrote: All they've done is made it so certain buzzwords get you auto banned now, and the threshhold for what reports punish is way lower, (note, lower, not stricter.). I've had just as many people tell me they hope i'll die or that someone should kill themselves in the last few weeks as i did in the same period two years ago. The only thing they've changed is that people don't say rude words, and you get wayyyyy fewer people giving actual advice to other players in soloq then before, because if you try and be helpful, and the guy is too tilted to realise and reports you, you get warned/banned. Personally I'd prefer to go back to where someone can call me a retard, but also isn't afraid to explain why I'm a retard, then this current over PC situation where nobody is allowed to even point out flaws because it could be interpreted as a microagression. Besides, trolls/afk's make me want to not play 100000x the amount a flamer or rager does, and yet I often hit the same guys trolling game after game for weeks on end. You'd think if Lyte was actually focussing on improving gameplay and not just playing god with his social engineering research, he'd put some time into that. Nobodies disagreeing that riot should ban people who tell you to kill yourself, but that's not at all what the vast majority of their "anti toxicity reforms" have actually targeted. I mean, I haven't played for what almost a year now, but a year ago I at least noticed that toxicity in general went way down compared to 2 years ago. Might be a product of my elo going up, or it might be an NA thing. EUW is famously more toxic after all. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:42 FinestHour wrote: whats the math behind the upgrade to last whisperer hitting person with more hp then u is that better than the other option vs BRuiSER TANKS Lord dominiks is better than the grevious wounds one in almost every case as an ADC. even if you only get +5% damage its real good. Vs Tanks it's exceptional (better than old LW) Vs about 60-70 Bonus armor and the 15%extra damage its about the same as old LW. it's good though. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:47 FinestHour wrote: that makes sense im just still playing around with what 1-2 items to go first generally speaking Dunno if i'd go lord dominiks super early. it's a good third item when the opponents all start stacking armor, but really early i don't see it being as strong. obviously its a lot worse on corki than on like MF or Lucian. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:46 Requizen wrote: I forget, does dodging affect your elo? Sometimes I'd rather just take the dodge than play some games. no, just your LP | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:37 Ketara wrote: I mean, I haven't played for what almost a year now, but a year ago I at least noticed that toxicity in general went way down compared to 2 years ago. Might be a product of my elo going up, or it might be an NA thing. EUW is famously more toxic after all. I dunno, maybe I just have insanely bad luck, but I've had a pretty consistent amount of toxicity over the last year or two. Only change was nobody swears or criticises anymore, but the people who go absolutely apeshit and start telling you to kill yourself are about as common, and if anything there are more trolls/afk'ers/int'ers. I mean, from last week. (Note I'm NOT QQ'ing. I'm fine/used to this happening at this point, just sharing logs for science purposes ^^) + Show Spoiler [some examples] + http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=125iqormute Told me to kill myself, said he hoped the guy who dc'd had died, and spent the second half of the game afk in base flaming everyone. One of the other people in the game had said to mute him when the game started (I didn't out of scientific curiosity) because he'd been doing that for at least the last 2-3 games. http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=maflax AFK for 15 minutes, came back, played for about 10 before saying we deserved to lose and him and his duo both went afk. http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=jordan058 was doing well early on while bot failed. Midgame was even but he said bot didn't deserve the win so he started running into the enemy team spamming laugh until we lost. http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=wh1tes1lence Someone criticised his build and suggested something else, he went afk on fountain flaming None of these guys temped or actioned at all, and the same with all the other people I look up a while after out of curiosity. And yet I've had times where I get the "you've been reported for verbal abuse, pls try and follow the summoners code" style warnings after games/series of games where I've said/done nothing other then friendly teamwork comments (lets group please, X is strong focus, get aegis, stack armour, etc) and telling other people to mute flamers who I've already muted. (Not in any fear of getting banned, since that seems almost impossible these days, but it's pretty fking demoralising to play several games with trolls, then have the system warn ME when I've done literally (in the literal sense of the word) nothing toxic at all. Not to mention I can't even remember the last time someone actually tried to engage me in a conversation to give advice/suggest something I'm doing wrong. It used to happen almost constantly (sometimes rudely, sometimes not,) but I learnt a lot that way. And now, even if you're doing badly/struggling, people just either say "please.../.../??/*something sad*", ignore you completely, or ask the other team to report you. On January 24 2016 12:48 PrinceXizor wrote: Dunno if i'd go lord dominiks super early. it's a good third item when the opponents all start stacking armor, but really early i don't see it being as strong. obviously its a lot worse on corki than on like MF or Lucian. How much armour do they need to have for it to outdamage something like IE (if you have ER/RFC) or other comparable third items? I've not really seen anyone get it ever, unless it's super late and there are several armour stackers. Not sure if that's just people being slow to adapt though. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:50 FinestHour wrote: yea thats what i meant as in its the 3rd item and im playing with what to build first and second For lucian Essence reaver Rapidfire is pretty common, I've seen some more aggro lucians go Runaans instead, because it gives 15 damage and has slightly more attack speed for an earlier spike, but I think the rapidfire's safety in poke might be better. Twitches usually go Ghostblade + rapidfire or runaans. The general idea is that an item that gives crit + a zeal item, with essence reaver being the spell based choice and IE the auto based choice (though combining IE before finishing the zeal item isn't done for cost reasons). I've Seen SOME botrks on vayne but i think its just not a good choice right now. On kog Wits end and rageblade are the only first two items ive seen Do anything at all. Corki is still TF rush, Ez either TF or go IBG and tear. Ashe Works well grabbing Runaans and IE. Thats all i got. i play a lot less support these days so im exposed to less bot lane meta. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 24 2016 12:01 Ketara wrote: Yes. They really do quit playing games when people call them names. Most people don't like being called names and when they have a choice between entertainment option A where they get called names, and entertainment option B where they don't get called names, they pick option B, as it turns out. I realize that most of the people on this forum and most of our gamer friends don't see it that way, but we must remember that just by posting here we are not representative of "most people". Most people do not feel like being called names is an acceptable downside to playing a game they want to play. If that were true LOL, COD, Halo, etc would never have gotten popular. There is really no evidence of this outside from a tiny population of agitators, who are basically the college students doing a sit-in over the lack of vegan options. That LOL is a clownfiesta that lets you blame teammates for losses is probably a huge reason why it became "the game" instead of StarCraft or the myriad of other games. Now, some people don't like being blamed, but they also like blaming, and knowing Riot, if this had significantly improved player retention they would be having a parade about it. | ||
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