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On November 17 2015 13:59 bbc23 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 13:52 Itsmedudeman wrote:On November 17 2015 13:45 Redox wrote:On November 17 2015 13:38 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it? This post makes me sad. I think you did not understand a single word of what I said. Again, their team did not get bought. Noone got replaced. If the Coast players had a longer contract they would still have lost their LCS spot. Only the LCS spot was bought, nothing else. And yes that is very surprising. It is something that has never happened before in League and that most people did not think was possible. It is also something that is not possible in most sports. And? All very legal. What is your basis for argument here? If their contracts ran longer then they would still be on the team and have to employ their players. No one is contracted by Riot. If there is a loophole or an inconsistency in the system it has to do with Riot's arbitrary way of keeping the scene afloat because it can't support itself. And regardless of whether buying out the team is a possibility, none of that matters regarding the moral outrage that the players aren't playing in LCS. Why? Because even if Coast retained their spot they are not legally bound to keep their players after the promotion tournament anyway. From a players perspective, your argument is not really relevant because the same thing could happen and has happened. No, what he's saying (and what I apparently didn't get at 1st either) is that what NRG bought was literally only the spot. None of the contracts would have transferred even if they were signed till 2030. This makes Coast's statement even more flimsy as I'm sure they'll send another team (possibly the same one minus Konkwon) to try for the CS again.
I understand all this and that wasn't really the point of my post. The contracts wouldn't transfer over to the new team (as they shouldn't), but if the contracts ran longer then Coast would have had to pay their players and employ them. However, REGARDLESS OF BEING ABLE TO SELL YOUR SPOT you can still kick players from your team after making it in. The ability to sell your spot and your spot only has no bearing on the root of the outrage which is players being guaranteed to play in the LCS.
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What do the "legalities" matter? The question is whether actions like this should be allowed by Riot and/or is healthy for the challenger scene in the longer term.
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Because it makes no sense that people would even start arguing about it now when it's always been happening and is just natural for competitive sports. The only difference this time around was the legality and paperwork behind it.
Also, in my opinion and people are free to disagree, it shouldn't be a question about what's best for the challenger scene, but rather what's best for the NA scene.
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On November 17 2015 13:45 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 13:38 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it? This post makes me sad. I think you did not understand a single word of what I said. Again, their team did not get bought. Noone got replaced. If the Coast players had a longer contract they would still have lost their LCS spot. Only the LCS spot was bought, nothing else. And yes that is very surprising. It is something that has never happened before in League and that most people did not think was possible. It is also something that is not possible in most sports.
NRG bought the Coast contracts too...
Anyway you have 50 (or 30 with imports) players getting salaried in LCS, then you still have another 30 (18) players after that who get paid for competing in Challenger. I have no idea how you can feel bad for them when in almost any other system many wouldn't be good enough in the first place.
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Mash/Cris had like million chances to prove that they're good player and they didn't. KonKwon got his chance on NRG, Shrimp will be in LCS for sure this or next split. No idea why ppl are mad? These shitters still makes probably more money in Challenger then most pros in KR/EU.
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Honestly besides the whole principle thing of being able to buy and replace an entire team for shits and giggles if you feel like it I think this is all just people whining the auto relegation spot is going to be Coast again and they are worried for their favorite team. That said this team looks pretty damn stacked like the old TiP roster did (until XWX SOILED IT) so it will be interesting to see if they become a real contender. That said I hope they play around Altec hard because the dude really is the best ad in NA at the moment.
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Wonder if the NA teams that qualify will sell their spots at Worlds to Korean teams next year. Might as well if you make more money that way.
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On November 17 2015 22:50 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Wonder if the NA teams that qualify will sell their spots at Worlds to Korean teams next year. Might as well if you make more money that way.
They won't. The rules don't allow it.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material?
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On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material?
Depends on Immortal imports, but I think so.
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On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material?
Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3.
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Impact: Korean/English
Moon: English
GBM: Korean/English
Altec: English
KonKwon: Korean/English (both well).
???
KonKwon can shotcall, if they really can't English GBM/Impact can just feed him info in Korean, others can give him info in English
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3.
You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure.
This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6.
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On November 18 2015 03:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3. You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure. This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6.
You really think all players not being fluent on the same language isn't that important? Because the evidence is stacked against you on that.
Korea is the dominant scene, and everyone speaks Korean on those teams.
On EU, the standout teams were Fnatic and Origen- all english speakers.
On NA, the teams that performed best at Worlds (even if that was pretty sad) were CLG and C9, both full of english speakers. I don't know how good Lustboy's english is at TSM, but at least TSM made it to Worlds, whereas other teams like Liquid, Gravity and TiP didn't- all of them with talented Korean players.
China had Korean superstars, and they were a big disappointment at Worlds too.
One of the big takeaways from Worlds, for me, is that everyone being fluent on the same language is a pretty big deal on a team game.
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Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do.
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On November 18 2015 03:48 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 03:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3. You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure. This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6. You really think all players not being fluent on the same language isn't that important? Because the evidence is stacked against you on that. Korea is the dominant scene, and everyone speaks Korean on those teams. On EU, the standout teams were Fnatic and Origen- all english speakers. On NA, the teams that performed best at Worlds (even if that was pretty sad) were CLG and C9, both full of english speakers. I don't know how good Lustboy's english is at TSM, but at least TSM made it to Worlds, whereas other teams like Liquid, Gravity and TiP didn't- all of them with talented Korean players. China had Korean superstars, and they were a big disappointment at Worlds too. One of the big takeaways from Worlds, for me, is that everyone being fluent on the same language is a pretty big deal on a team game.
What about from S4 Worlds to MSI, when mixed language teams performed exceptionally? Starhorn Royal Club got 2nd at Worlds, TSM did well at S4 Worlds, won NA LCS Spring and won IEM Katowice with a player who didn't speak English. WE got second at IEM Katowice with a mixed-language roster. EDG won MSI with Koreans and Chinese players speaking a mix of the two languages + English. Fnatic was mixed language too. The all-Chinese LPL teams were abysmal, while the mixed language teams ruled the league.
Obviously in any team game, communication is pivotal. However, I think people are kinda blowing the communication thing out of proportion post S5 Worlds because of LPL. It's kinda funny because the mindset after S4 Worlds was the complete opposite "see, communication is overrated, just use smart pings and GG!" I think there is a middle ground.
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On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do.
Are you sure about that? I'd heard Huni was pretty good at english by Worlds.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 18 2015 03:48 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 03:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3. You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure. This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6. You really think all players not being fluent on the same language isn't that important? Because the evidence is stacked against you on that. Korea is the dominant scene, and everyone speaks Korean on those teams. On EU, the standout teams were Fnatic and Origen- all english speakers. On NA, the teams that performed best at Worlds (even if that was pretty sad) were CLG and C9, both full of english speakers. I don't know how good Lustboy's english is at TSM, but at least TSM made it to Worlds, whereas other teams like Liquid, Gravity and TiP didn't- all of them with talented Korean players. China had Korean superstars, and they were a big disappointment at Worlds too. One of the big takeaways from Worlds, for me, is that everyone being fluent on the same language is a pretty big deal on a team game.
That's why Chinese teams like EDG, LGD, QG and iG are still best at teamfighting despite not speaking same languages, Uzi and Zero became arguably best 2v2 lane ever despite not understanding each other and so on.
Being fluent in the same language in game doesn't give you +1 to skill instantly.
Yes, communication outside of the game might be important, but if your players have same goal of winning, it's not important, can they speak same language or they just know how certain champion name is called.
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On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do.
What? Huni english is fine right now.
I feel it's necessary for every pro that comes to NA to learn basic english and org to provide him with tutor. It makes everything easier and let's be real english isn't hard language.
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EPT
