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United Kingdom50293 Posts
New organization NRG Esports has announced that they will be participating in the NA LCS and have confirmed 4/5 of their players.
Founded in 2015 to compete in Season 6 of the North American LCS, NRG eSports will bring a new sense of professionalism to eSports. Under the founders, Gerard Kelly, Mark Mastrov, and Andy Miller, we can take our experience in business and sports to the world of competitive gaming. The NRG brand represents the energy of a group of people coming together, whether it’s the power of five players working together or the roar of their fans.
Heading into the 2016 season, NRG has the resources and players to make a powerful statement in our LCS debut. With power, potential, and perseverance, we will rise to the top of North America. We will reach the World Championship. We are NRG eSports.
Source
Team Roster:
 Jung "Impact" Eon-yeong (Top)
 Galen "Moon" Holgate (Jungle)
Lee "GBM" Chang-seok (Mid)
Johnny "Altec" Ru (ADC)
Kevin "KonKwon" Kwon (Support)
The organisation has later confirmed to thescore that Johnny "Altec" Ru will be their AD Carry
Source
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This team gonna win LCS.
Why are they announcing AD separately -__-
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 16 2015 21:18 Ansibled wrote:
This team gonna win LCS.
Why are they announcing AD separately -__-
Probably still negotiating with Altec, huh.
Inb4 plot twist, Altec joins CLG, WildTurtle empowers NRGwithRNG power.
And why in the world, do we have RNG and NRG in the same league now.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Someone who's completely desperate to be in LCS without any talent.
Like, uh, Martin Shkreli? :p
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This rule is actually more stupid than originally thought, amazing.
I don't see TiP/GV ending up with good rosters or orgs.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
TiP is from what I've heard the most expensive slot, plus you get none of the players plus all of the good free agents were already likely deep into negotiation stages/done deal by the time TiP put their slot on sale. So they're basically the last slot that's going to be sold; if it even is sold.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
ahhh.... GBM, so nice. Seems like NA LCS gonna be interesting to say at least.
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I winder if the coast members get a bit of the buyout. I mean, they basically fought into lcs just to get benched without playing a single split haha.
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Interesting. Are there any other notable free agent NA ADCs besides Altec and WT?
Do Moon/KonKwon speak Korean, also? I'm assuming that's what this roster would communicate in.
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On November 16 2015 23:32 BrownBear wrote:
Interesting. Are there any other notable free agent NA ADCs besides Altec and WT?
Do Moon/KonKwon speak Korean, also? I'm assuming that's what this roster would communicate in.
Apollo. His contract ends today. There werer rumours about him joining Dig tho. I think he shortly followed them on Twitter.
Then maybe Maplestreet.
Reminder that buyers of Tip and Gravity as well as Immortals rosters are not known yet (or have none). Will be tough to find 3 good NA players for all of them.
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On November 08 2015 07:37 bbc23 wrote:
Do you guys seriously think new CST is keeping guys like Cris/Mash if they can afford top tier players GBM? I will guarantee no more than 1 of the players on that team stays. Please keep in mind 80% of players are no longer under contract and there are upgrades that can be mean from the Challenger scene.
Whoooo, nailed it.
Guessing Altec will be the final piece. Really sad Vivek isn't a part of the purchase, he'd fuck this up royally.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 16 2015 23:32 BrownBear wrote:
Interesting. Are there any other notable free agent NA ADCs besides Altec and WT?
Do Moon/KonKwon speak Korean, also? I'm assuming that's what this roster would communicate in.
Pretty sure that KonKwon speaks Korean fluently.
But knowing how such teams communicate usually, you just need to play game properly and all is fine.
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On November 16 2015 21:31 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2015 21:18 Ansibled wrote:
This team gonna win LCS.
Why are they announcing AD separately -__- Probably still negotiating with Altec, huh. Inb4 plot twist, Altec joins CLG, WildTurtle empowers NRGwithRNG power. And why in the world, do we have RNG and NRG in same league now.
Inb4 TiP slot is bought out by GNR eSports
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I hope this team does well. Great star power, good staff and I also like how they weren't afraid to pull from NA challenger (granted, Moon and Konkwon are probably two of the safer bets in that regard). Hoping for Altec but it seems Turtle is in Korea duo right now with the players, so maybe it's him.
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Woah, yea, I'm really surprised that it isn't Vivek that's the owner buying this.
Any screwups you can attribute to current Sacramento Kings ownership is effectively attributed to majority owner Vivek Ranadive. So Andy Miller and Mark Mastrov are kind of blank slates as far as top level sports team ownership goes.
Also, calling them Kings co-owners is like calling Marc Lasry (current majority co-owner of the Milwaukee Bucks) an ex-owner of the New Jersey/Brooklyn Nets*. Technically true, but they're minority owners.
It's also not under the Sacramento Kings brand, so it annoys me when people keep shortcutting things to 'Kings bought Coast'. It's as dumb as saying that the Chicao White Sox (MLB) bought the Chicago Bulls (NBA) (Jerry Reinsdorf bought the White Sox in 1981, then the Bulls in 1985; still owns them to this day).
Here is an article at a Kings fan blog introducing Andy Miller.
His career path looks to be: found Quattro Wireless, sold that to Apple in 2009, worked as VP of mobile advertising for Apple for a couple of years, then became a partner with Highland Capital Partners, served as president of Leap Motion until 2014, then started up Remix Media Inc. (source)
Mark Mastrov mainly has 24 Hour Fitness and has a listed networth of $350 million this year.
*edit: actually, both current majority co-owners of the Bucks (Marc Lasry and Wes Edens) were minority owners in the Nets prior to buying the Bucks...also, F*** THEM FOR THEIR CONNECTION TO JASON KIDD.
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Hope this team will work out for Turtle, kind of wonder what happened with CLG WildTurtle though, maybe NRG made a better offer.
Also, I've ran out of emails, would be cool if I could just stop getting banned for talking about a banbet that was never agreed on.
User was banned for this post.
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They're not taking Turtle... lol.
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On November 17 2015 02:23 BannedGoat wrote:
Hope this team will work out for Turtle, kind of wonder what happened with CLG WildTurtle though, maybe NRG made a better offer.
Also, I'm running out of emails, would be cool if I could just stop getting banned for talking about a banbet that was never agreed on.
haha. :D
Maybe it would help if your posts were a little bit less random. Because it makes you look like a troll.
Like, where do you see any confirmation here that Turtle is on this team? He was just mentioned because he is teamless.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 17 2015 02:23 BannedGoat wrote:
Hope this team will work out for Turtle, kind of wonder what happened with CLG WildTurtle though, maybe NRG made a better offer.
Also, I've ran out of emails, would be cool if I could just stop getting banned for talking about a banbet that was never agreed on.
Yea, it was never agreed on.
Oh wait.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
I think turtle's a decent possibility based on the signs pointing towards Apollo to Dignitas and Altec going on a team with Adrian (Which by deduction would likely be Immortals). It's like after those three it's Keithmcbrief, LOD, Stixxay or Otter. Not the worst choices to be fair but I think wildturtle is best you're going to get if not Altec unless they make a bold move for Stixxay's POTENTIAL
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Altec is basically Keithmcbrief tier version of doublelift. If you want that, go for it. WildTurtle is going to be more flexible, plus he is just individually better. Turtle is the smarter pick if the team wants to actually go far in playoffs. Altec might be better if you just want to stay in the LCS and you don't have much talent to work with.
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The GOAT strikes again. At least you are getting better at being funny. Props man
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Well what do you know, it's not WT 
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Everything about NRG has made me happy. They brought in a full and experienced coaching staff, got 2 great imports, and are using up and coming NA talent. Future teams trying to make it into LCS are going to have to try and emulate this model.
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Pretty cool of GBM offering to help pay for housing while in Korea.
Kinda wish Gerard Kelly didn't share his name with a Scottish actor so it'd be easier to look up his history...
At any rate, this way he has an in with some wealthy businessmen. Connections!
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so wait, you can buy a spot then just put anyone you want in the team? seems weird.
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On November 16 2015 21:18 Ansibled wrote:
This team gonna win LCS.
NA LCS is gonna be pretty fun actually
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I'm a bit skeptical. Why would RGN announce their roster and then confirm their ADC with The Score?
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On November 17 2015 06:09 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
so wait, you can buy a spot then just put anyone you want in the team? seems weird.
Why is it weird that you can replace players from a roster when their contracts had expired. The 3/5 rule is what's weird.
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it's really weird that they chose to announce like 6 hours before they could confirm Altec, I mean, it probly means nothing but it's weird.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
https://www.facebook.com/lolNRG/posts/991424307567184
It's now facebook official
He has spent his career held back. He has been the center of multiple rosters, rosters unable to match his pace
Mfw NRG just called gravity and winterfox ELO hell, not that I'm disagreeing.
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On November 17 2015 06:19 bbc23 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 06:09 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
so wait, you can buy a spot then just put anyone you want in the team? seems weird. Why is it weird that you can replace players from a roster when their contracts had expired. The 3/5 rule is what's weird.
Regardless if you think if the rule makes sense or not, it is very surprising that NRG are apparently able to ignore it. Even Nick Allen did not think this was possible:
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On November 17 2015 06:09 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
so wait, you can buy a spot then just put anyone you want in the team? seems weird.
I guess that the technicality here is that the LCS spot specifically was sold here. Coast as an organization wasn't sold. So whatever contracts that existed between Coast and its players were not inherited as part of the sale.
And this way, you are technically not a Challenger Series team that won their way in. You're this new team that bought this place in the LCS from a Challenger Series team that pried the spot in question from the cold, dead hands of Enemy eSports.
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They have a lot of money, thats something I can acknowledge :D
Might end up being middle of pack team or dead last this split, who knows.
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Oh, Coast of all orgs should know damn well this sort of thing has to be put down in writing. Won't do that without impacting the sale price though!
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I'm guessing they will try to pay a fine and that's it? or pay ex-coast to play for 1week, whatever is cheaper
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Why should they pay anything?
Riot rules ain't clear, so they're going with it.
Plus it's not like this purchase was completed without Riot noticing or whatever, so if it went through, it means that everything is fine.
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lol, Riot doesn't give a fuck as long as co-owners are connected to Sacramento Kings and Apple. #legitimacy
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On November 17 2015 07:15 orzeu wrote:
lol, Riot doesn't give a fuck as long as co-owners are connected to Sacramento Kings and Apple. #legitimacy
Yeah I imagine this is the case.
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Well, there's more than that going on.
If you have an issue with the capability to sell your LCS spot stand alone, then logically, when an org wants to sell, you have to force the org to sell itself/whatever the legal entity is and whatever currently existing contracts along with the spot. Like when you buy a franchise in a traditional sports league in NA.
It's something that gets funny from the spot in the LCS being an entity of its own that already changes hands from the relegation/promotion process.
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Idk, maybe they will be better than I realize as of right now but definitely not predicting them top 3.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 17 2015 07:46 BannedGoat wrote:
Idk, maybe they will be better than I realize as of right now but definitely not predicting them top 3.
Sometimes those comments make me feel for original Goat.
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On November 17 2015 07:50 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 07:46 BannedGoat wrote:
Idk, maybe they will be better than I realize as of right now but definitely not predicting them top 3. Sometimes those comments make me feel for original Goat.
Why would you feel if it's the same guy. Is it not?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 17 2015 08:10 Skitter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 07:50 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On November 17 2015 07:46 BannedGoat wrote:
Idk, maybe they will be better than I realize as of right now but definitely not predicting them top 3. Sometimes those comments make me feel for original Goat. Why would you feel if it's the same guy. Is it not?
It's just that he's going to be gone faster than sun will rise here.
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Who do I message to get my original account unbanned?
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On November 17 2015 08:22 BannedGoat wrote:
Who do I message to get my original account unbanned?
You don't. It was a permaban bet.
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On November 17 2015 08:27 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 08:22 BannedGoat wrote:
Who do I message to get my original account unbanned? You don't. It was a permaban bet.
Yeah but it was one of those classic ones that didn't actually get agreed upon.
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My fucking face
I don't think anyone genuinely didn't know what NRG was, but it was more like disbelief it could be "energy" and the quavering hope that it might be deeper than that
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
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On November 17 2015 07:07 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Why should they pay anything?
Riot rules ain't clear, so they're going with it.
Plus it's not like this purchase was completed without Riot noticing or whatever, so if it went through, it means that everything is fine.
Does make you feel bad for the players involved though, it seems like they worked so hard to get their LCS spot then just had it taken from them. I get that these new members would be more competitive than the team that qualified, but still... if I worked very hard to get something then just got it taken from me from money reasons without my consent I'd be pretty upset.
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nah, it's cheesy as fuck but when Elements started doing the anime intros for each player using different elements holy shit i felt like i got brain cancer
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On November 17 2015 08:53 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 07:07 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Why should they pay anything?
Riot rules ain't clear, so they're going with it.
Plus it's not like this purchase was completed without Riot noticing or whatever, so if it went through, it means that everything is fine. Does make you feel bad for the players involved though, it seems like they worked so hard to get their LCS spot then just had it taken from them. I get that these new members would be more competitive than the team that qualified, but still... if I worked very hard to get something then just got it taken from me from money reasons without my consent I'd be pretty upset.
LCS and Challenger is one of the most well protected/paid environments for bad players, I don't really feel bad for them.
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On November 17 2015 08:53 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 07:07 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Why should they pay anything?
Riot rules ain't clear, so they're going with it.
Plus it's not like this purchase was completed without Riot noticing or whatever, so if it went through, it means that everything is fine. Does make you feel bad for the players involved though, it seems like they worked so hard to get their LCS spot then just had it taken from them. I get that these new members would be more competitive than the team that qualified, but still... if I worked very hard to get something then just got it taken from me from money reasons without my consent I'd be pretty upset.
No
Their contracts ended, there should never be some kind of obligation to re-sign players after their contract ends.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 17 2015 08:53 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 07:07 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Why should they pay anything?
Riot rules ain't clear, so they're going with it.
Plus it's not like this purchase was completed without Riot noticing or whatever, so if it went through, it means that everything is fine. Does make you feel bad for the players involved though, it seems like they worked so hard to get their LCS spot then just had it taken from them. I get that these new members would be more competitive than the team that qualified, but still... if I worked very hard to get something then just got it taken from me from money reasons without my consent I'd be pretty upset.
It doesn't make me feel bad in a slightest.
Cris is 4-40 in LCS, Don'tMashMe, despite having as many LCS finals as Doublelift is trash and PekinWoof isn't LCS caliber. And we've seen one 1-17 already by Coast this year with Cris and DMM, that's enough.
Only player besides KonKwon who's robbed is Shrimp and we still have no idea, probably Shrimp is going to land on Immortals or something.
Look at the professional sports, when team in football is promoted to the premier league, sometimes more than half of the roster is gone, just because they won't cut it there.
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It makes me feel bad that the players earned their way into the LCS and then all got kicked out of their team. The 3/5ths rule really needs to apply to teams trying to buy their way into the LCS.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
I mean, let's be real.
What's the point of 3/5 rule if it applies only for 1st game of the split.
It's even worse than getting kicked instantly after team sells out.
- Hey, you can play one game and then be gone, cya.
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On November 17 2015 09:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I mean, let's be real.
What's the point of 3/5 rule if it applies only for 1st game of the split.
It's even worse than getting kicked instantly after team sells out.
- Hey, you can play one game and then be gone, cya.
It gives players leverage. They need to give them a contract for the whole split at least.
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On November 17 2015 09:13 IMoperator wrote:
It makes me feel bad that the players earned their way into the LCS and then all got kicked out of their team. The 3/5ths rule really needs to apply to teams trying to buy their way into the LCS.
They didn't get kicked out. Their contracts ended. They weren't good enough to be renewed, I don't get why teams should have an obligation to re-sign guys who have proven to be poor in the LCS.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 17 2015 09:32 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 09:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I mean, let's be real.
What's the point of 3/5 rule if it applies only for 1st game of the split.
It's even worse than getting kicked instantly after team sells out.
- Hey, you can play one game and then be gone, cya. It gives players leverage. They need to give them a contract for the whole split at least.
Why, lol.
I'm probably too cynic for current world, but I don't see a single reason, why do I want to spend money as NRG owners on keeping guys, whose contracts are over, on bench, just to please them.
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On November 17 2015 09:37 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 09:32 Redox wrote:On November 17 2015 09:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I mean, let's be real.
What's the point of 3/5 rule if it applies only for 1st game of the split.
It's even worse than getting kicked instantly after team sells out.
- Hey, you can play one game and then be gone, cya. It gives players leverage. They need to give them a contract for the whole split at least. Why, lol. I'm probably too cynic for current world, but I don't see a single reason, why do I want to spend money as NRG owners on keeping guys, whose contracts are over, on bench, just to please them.
Shouldn't the players who made it into the LCS own the spot and not the org? isn't that how CS does it now with the majors?
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On November 17 2015 09:37 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 09:32 Redox wrote:On November 17 2015 09:18 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
I mean, let's be real.
What's the point of 3/5 rule if it applies only for 1st game of the split.
It's even worse than getting kicked instantly after team sells out.
- Hey, you can play one game and then be gone, cya. It gives players leverage. They need to give them a contract for the whole split at least. Why, lol. I'm probably too cynic for current world, but I don't see a single reason, why do I want to spend money as NRG owners on keeping guys, whose contracts are over, on bench, just to please them.
Because players wont play for you if you dont give them a contract. Idk whats so hard to get here.
Also there might be a minimum contract length for LCS players, not sure about that one.
And why the fuck do you talk about "want"? The whole point of the discussion is if there should be a rule to make them do something they dont want.
https://www.facebook.com/LoLWickd/posts/762383057200161
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Having to play 3/5s of the qualifying team for a single game is less ridiculous than having a challenger series that is completely meaningless in determining who gets into LCS. Having completely zero continuum between the new LCS team and the team that got through challenger is an absurd situation. The players being shafted that hard is a side issue but an issue nonetheless.
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I wonder why ppl that spend more then 1 mil for LCS slot aren't hiring graphic designers/brand advisors? Especially the ones that worked for apple... NRG logo is absolutely garbage and random artist would do better for 10 bucks.
If I had money I would just hire Apdo and bust team to LCS every split and sell.
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yea their graphics are pretty bad considering the calibur of the rest of the org.
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It's not standard stuff in real sports though. Promoted teams in European football leagues upgrade about 1/3 of their roster at best. Even in a scenario of a small club being bought by extremely wealthy backers (ie Man City) the elite level players are usually brought in over a couple of seasons. I can't think of a single example where all players in a starting roster have been replaced after being promoted to the top tier of a major competition.
It's a fair point that well run, wealthy organisations will rise the tide of for players in terms of conditions/opportunities, but there has to be rules to stop owners from screwing players over. They might not be superstars but rules should take into account guys like Cris or Mash as much as anyone else.
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Uh, all the people complaining about players getting kicked are being pretty hypocritical. Wouldn't anyone that played on a team that retained their LCS spot have "earned" their LCS spot the same way that the Coast players did? If not more so considering much harder competition? So how do people justify xpecial getting kicked? How about Steelback who won the fucking LCS and ended up losing his spot? I never heard anyone say that FNC *shouldn't* be allowed to do that. It's the same fucking thing except they weren't on shit tier teams that were aiming to be barely above bottom tier. It's their team, they get to hire who they want.
And before people tell me they weren't even given a shot... No, they were. The entire Challenger series but they got cut. Cuts happen before the season even begins in every sport even after being drafted.
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On November 17 2015 13:13 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, all the people complaining about players getting kicked are being pretty hypocritical. Wouldn't anyone that played on a team that retained their LCS spot have "earned" their LCS spot the same way that the Coast players did? If not more so considering much harder competition? So how do people justify xpecial getting kicked? How about Steelback who won the fucking LCS and ended up losing his spot? I never heard anyone say that FNC *shouldn't* be allowed to do that. It's the same fucking thing except they weren't on shit tier teams that were aiming to be barely above bottom tier. It's their team, they get to hire who they want.
And before people tell me they weren't even given a shot... No, they were. The entire Challenger series but they got cut. Cuts happen before the season even begins in every sport even after being drafted.
They were not cut. They were never on the team that bought their spot. Which is the only reason why this was possible in the first place.
People always talking about how their contracts ran out. This does not matter at all. If their contracts ran longer they would still be contracted to Coast. Just that they dont have an LCS spot anymore because Coast sold that one. This is why this transaction is such a remarkable precedent.
For the people with the football comparisons. This is like a never heard of team buying a Premier league spot and filling it with their own team of players, not like a team getting new players after being promoted.
90% of people here are completely missing the point.
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Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it?
Hell, if TL wants to sell their spot right now and the new team decides to revamp their roster would that be any different? No, and morally I'd argue they're completely justified to do so since TL was doing it anyway.
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On November 17 2015 13:38 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it?
This post makes me sad. I think you did not understand a single word of what I said. Again, their team did not get bought. Noone got replaced. If the Coast players had a longer contract they would still have lost their LCS spot. Only the LCS spot was bought, nothing else.
And yes that is very surprising. It is something that has never happened before in League and that most people did not think was possible. It is also something that is not possible in most sports.
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On November 17 2015 13:45 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 13:38 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it? This post makes me sad. I think you did not understand a single word of what I said. Again, their team did not get bought. Noone got replaced. If the Coast players had a longer contract they would still have lost their LCS spot. Only the LCS spot was bought, nothing else. And yes that is very surprising. It is something that has never happened before in League and that most people did not think was possible. It is also something that is not possible in most sports.
And? All very legal. What is your basis for argument here? If their contracts ran longer then they would still be on the team and have to employ their players. No one is contracted by Riot. If there is a loophole or an inconsistency in the system it has to do with Riot's arbitrary way of keeping the scene afloat because it can't support itself.
And regardless of whether buying out the team is a possibility, none of that matters regarding the moral outrage that the players aren't playing in LCS. Why? Because even if Coast retained their spot they are not legally bound to keep their players after the promotion tournament anyway. From a players perspective, your argument is not really relevant because the same thing could happen and has happened.
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On November 17 2015 13:52 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 13:45 Redox wrote:On November 17 2015 13:38 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it? This post makes me sad. I think you did not understand a single word of what I said. Again, their team did not get bought. Noone got replaced. If the Coast players had a longer contract they would still have lost their LCS spot. Only the LCS spot was bought, nothing else. And yes that is very surprising. It is something that has never happened before in League and that most people did not think was possible. It is also something that is not possible in most sports. And? All very legal. What is your basis for argument here? If their contracts ran longer then they would still be on the team and have to employ their players. No one is contracted by Riot. If there is a loophole or an inconsistency in the system it has to do with Riot's arbitrary way of keeping the scene afloat because it can't support itself. And regardless of whether buying out the team is a possibility, none of that matters regarding the moral outrage that the players aren't playing in LCS. Why? Because even if Coast retained their spot they are not legally bound to keep their players after the promotion tournament anyway. From a players perspective, your argument is not really relevant because the same thing could happen and has happened.
No, what he's saying (and what I apparently didn't get at 1st either) is that what NRG bought was literally only the spot. None of the contracts would have transferred even if they were signed till 2030. This makes Coast's statement even more flimsy as I'm sure they'll send another team (possibly the same one minus Konkwon) to try for the CS again.
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On November 17 2015 13:59 bbc23 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 13:52 Itsmedudeman wrote:On November 17 2015 13:45 Redox wrote:On November 17 2015 13:38 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it? This post makes me sad. I think you did not understand a single word of what I said. Again, their team did not get bought. Noone got replaced. If the Coast players had a longer contract they would still have lost their LCS spot. Only the LCS spot was bought, nothing else. And yes that is very surprising. It is something that has never happened before in League and that most people did not think was possible. It is also something that is not possible in most sports. And? All very legal. What is your basis for argument here? If their contracts ran longer then they would still be on the team and have to employ their players. No one is contracted by Riot. If there is a loophole or an inconsistency in the system it has to do with Riot's arbitrary way of keeping the scene afloat because it can't support itself. And regardless of whether buying out the team is a possibility, none of that matters regarding the moral outrage that the players aren't playing in LCS. Why? Because even if Coast retained their spot they are not legally bound to keep their players after the promotion tournament anyway. From a players perspective, your argument is not really relevant because the same thing could happen and has happened. No, what he's saying (and what I apparently didn't get at 1st either) is that what NRG bought was literally only the spot. None of the contracts would have transferred even if they were signed till 2030. This makes Coast's statement even more flimsy as I'm sure they'll send another team (possibly the same one minus Konkwon) to try for the CS again.
I understand all this and that wasn't really the point of my post. The contracts wouldn't transfer over to the new team (as they shouldn't), but if the contracts ran longer then Coast would have had to pay their players and employ them. However, REGARDLESS OF BEING ABLE TO SELL YOUR SPOT you can still kick players from your team after making it in. The ability to sell your spot and your spot only has no bearing on the root of the outrage which is players being guaranteed to play in the LCS.
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What do the "legalities" matter? The question is whether actions like this should be allowed by Riot and/or is healthy for the challenger scene in the longer term.
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Because it makes no sense that people would even start arguing about it now when it's always been happening and is just natural for competitive sports. The only difference this time around was the legality and paperwork behind it.
Also, in my opinion and people are free to disagree, it shouldn't be a question about what's best for the challenger scene, but rather what's best for the NA scene.
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On November 17 2015 13:45 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2015 13:38 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Uh, is that surprising? If a team gets bought out, then it's not their team anymore. This is true in the corporate world and in sports. If they so want to replace everyone, they can. They own it. You can argue it's not fair all you want, but it's just how it is. The legal precedent and context is no different and NRG did not do anything illegal. Hell, it's WHY they bought the team in the first place. Why buy it if they have no control over it? This post makes me sad. I think you did not understand a single word of what I said. Again, their team did not get bought. Noone got replaced. If the Coast players had a longer contract they would still have lost their LCS spot. Only the LCS spot was bought, nothing else. And yes that is very surprising. It is something that has never happened before in League and that most people did not think was possible. It is also something that is not possible in most sports.
NRG bought the Coast contracts too...
Anyway you have 50 (or 30 with imports) players getting salaried in LCS, then you still have another 30 (18) players after that who get paid for competing in Challenger. I have no idea how you can feel bad for them when in almost any other system many wouldn't be good enough in the first place.
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Mash/Cris had like million chances to prove that they're good player and they didn't. KonKwon got his chance on NRG, Shrimp will be in LCS for sure this or next split. No idea why ppl are mad? These shitters still makes probably more money in Challenger then most pros in KR/EU.
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Honestly besides the whole principle thing of being able to buy and replace an entire team for shits and giggles if you feel like it I think this is all just people whining the auto relegation spot is going to be Coast again and they are worried for their favorite team. That said this team looks pretty damn stacked like the old TiP roster did (until XWX SOILED IT) so it will be interesting to see if they become a real contender. That said I hope they play around Altec hard because the dude really is the best ad in NA at the moment.
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Wonder if the NA teams that qualify will sell their spots at Worlds to Korean teams next year. Might as well if you make more money that way.
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On November 17 2015 22:50 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Wonder if the NA teams that qualify will sell their spots at Worlds to Korean teams next year. Might as well if you make more money that way.
They won't. The rules don't allow it.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material?
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On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material?
Depends on Immortal imports, but I think so.
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On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material?
Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3.
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Impact: Korean/English
Moon: English
GBM: Korean/English
Altec: English
KonKwon: Korean/English (both well).
???
KonKwon can shotcall, if they really can't English GBM/Impact can just feed him info in Korean, others can give him info in English
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3.
You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure.
This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6.
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On November 18 2015 03:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3. You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure. This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6.
You really think all players not being fluent on the same language isn't that important? Because the evidence is stacked against you on that.
Korea is the dominant scene, and everyone speaks Korean on those teams.
On EU, the standout teams were Fnatic and Origen- all english speakers.
On NA, the teams that performed best at Worlds (even if that was pretty sad) were CLG and C9, both full of english speakers. I don't know how good Lustboy's english is at TSM, but at least TSM made it to Worlds, whereas other teams like Liquid, Gravity and TiP didn't- all of them with talented Korean players.
China had Korean superstars, and they were a big disappointment at Worlds too.
One of the big takeaways from Worlds, for me, is that everyone being fluent on the same language is a pretty big deal on a team game.
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Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do.
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On November 18 2015 03:48 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 03:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3. You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure. This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6. You really think all players not being fluent on the same language isn't that important? Because the evidence is stacked against you on that. Korea is the dominant scene, and everyone speaks Korean on those teams. On EU, the standout teams were Fnatic and Origen- all english speakers. On NA, the teams that performed best at Worlds (even if that was pretty sad) were CLG and C9, both full of english speakers. I don't know how good Lustboy's english is at TSM, but at least TSM made it to Worlds, whereas other teams like Liquid, Gravity and TiP didn't- all of them with talented Korean players. China had Korean superstars, and they were a big disappointment at Worlds too. One of the big takeaways from Worlds, for me, is that everyone being fluent on the same language is a pretty big deal on a team game.
What about from S4 Worlds to MSI, when mixed language teams performed exceptionally? Starhorn Royal Club got 2nd at Worlds, TSM did well at S4 Worlds, won NA LCS Spring and won IEM Katowice with a player who didn't speak English. WE got second at IEM Katowice with a mixed-language roster. EDG won MSI with Koreans and Chinese players speaking a mix of the two languages + English. Fnatic was mixed language too. The all-Chinese LPL teams were abysmal, while the mixed language teams ruled the league.
Obviously in any team game, communication is pivotal. However, I think people are kinda blowing the communication thing out of proportion post S5 Worlds because of LPL. It's kinda funny because the mindset after S4 Worlds was the complete opposite "see, communication is overrated, just use smart pings and GG!" I think there is a middle ground.
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On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do.
Are you sure about that? I'd heard Huni was pretty good at english by Worlds.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 18 2015 03:48 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 03:14 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On November 18 2015 02:59 Zato-1 wrote:On November 18 2015 02:30 739 wrote:
So NRG about to sign Altec. Does this make them #1 material? Playoffs team to be sure, but with the language barrier I wouldn't put them into the top 3. You need to know English perfectly to scream "Azir, Azir, Azir!", that's for sure. This team is safely top-2 right now, and considering that Bjergsen is probably shotcalling in TSM and Balls/Hai still stay, it's probably even top-1, unless something weird happens with Moon or GBM in Season 6. You really think all players not being fluent on the same language isn't that important? Because the evidence is stacked against you on that. Korea is the dominant scene, and everyone speaks Korean on those teams. On EU, the standout teams were Fnatic and Origen- all english speakers. On NA, the teams that performed best at Worlds (even if that was pretty sad) were CLG and C9, both full of english speakers. I don't know how good Lustboy's english is at TSM, but at least TSM made it to Worlds, whereas other teams like Liquid, Gravity and TiP didn't- all of them with talented Korean players. China had Korean superstars, and they were a big disappointment at Worlds too. One of the big takeaways from Worlds, for me, is that everyone being fluent on the same language is a pretty big deal on a team game.
That's why Chinese teams like EDG, LGD, QG and iG are still best at teamfighting despite not speaking same languages, Uzi and Zero became arguably best 2v2 lane ever despite not understanding each other and so on.
Being fluent in the same language in game doesn't give you +1 to skill instantly.
Yes, communication outside of the game might be important, but if your players have same goal of winning, it's not important, can they speak same language or they just know how certain champion name is called.
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On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do.
What? Huni english is fine right now.
I feel it's necessary for every pro that comes to NA to learn basic english and org to provide him with tutor. It makes everything easier and let's be real english isn't hard language.
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On November 18 2015 04:25 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do. What? Huni english is fine right now.
So? He spend the whole year working on it which had a situation as described until it's decent level. Even then from voice comms we hear him and Reignover sometimes talking between themselves in Korean. Saying NRG has a problem because they aren't all English then citing Fnatic as an all English team is a bit disingenuous. They weren't always able to do single language communication so well and even then it's still improving.
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With a good coaching setup and motivated players, language barrier wont be a problem.
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If anything, we can take away from the OMG interviews that communication's more important in the out of game conflict resolution type stuff.
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On November 18 2015 04:28 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 04:25 orzeu wrote:On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do. What? Huni english is fine right now. So? He spend the whole year working on it which had a situation as described until it's decent level. Even then from voice comms we hear him and Reignover sometimes talking between themselves in Korean. Saying NRG has a problem because they aren't all English then citing Fnatic as an all English team is a bit disingenuous. They weren't always able to do single language communication so well and even then it's still improving.
One of NRG's analysts said he was told Impact was doing some shotcalling for TiP in basic English. I'm not too concerned about NRG's comms especially since Konkwon can be a translator if things go to shit.
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On November 18 2015 04:28 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 04:25 orzeu wrote:On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do. What? Huni english is fine right now. So? He spend the whole year working on it which had a situation as described until it's decent level. Even then from voice comms we hear him and Reignover sometimes talking between themselves in Korean. Saying NRG has a problem because they aren't all English then citing Fnatic as an all English team is a bit disingenuous. They weren't always able to do single language communication so well and even then it's still improving.
Whole year? After one split he was doing simple interviews on camera and when he came to EU he couldn't speak at all. They don't have problem, but everything is easier if you put a bit afford and learn basic english and don't act like diva (piglet).
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 18 2015 04:31 Saradin wrote:
If anything, we can take away from the OMG interviews that communication's more important in the out of game conflict resolution type stuff.
If your players are willing to communicate with each other, language barrier should never be a problem.
And if you can't resolve some conflicts, sometimes it's better that you can't understand each other, like Uzi and inSec.
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On November 18 2015 04:25 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do. What? Huni english is fine right now. I feel it's necessary for every pro that comes to NA to learn basic english and org to provide him with tutor. It makes everything easier and let's be real english isn't hard language.
Speaking as a non-native english speaker, english is moderately hard. It doesn't have weird alphabets like Chinese or Russian or Greek and its sentence and verb structure are fairly straightforward, but the pronunciation of words is just all over the place.
Why is thou pronounced thaa-u whereas though is pronounced tho-u and through is pronounced thru? Why is Worcester pronounced wooster? Why is sword pronounced sord? There are harder languages than english to learn, but english is not at all an especially easy one. Pronunciation in particular is a mess and you just have to learn the pronunciation of every word by heart because there are no general rules that you can just follow.
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Oh, yea, English pronunciation has no consistency. A large part of that comes from the very haphazard absorption of words from other languages over the years. Although for examples like Worcester, I.... don't... know.
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On November 18 2015 05:01 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 04:25 orzeu wrote:On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do. What? Huni english is fine right now. I feel it's necessary for every pro that comes to NA to learn basic english and org to provide him with tutor. It makes everything easier and let's be real english isn't hard language. Speaking as a non-native english speaker, english is moderately hard. It doesn't have weird alphabets like Chinese or Russian or Greek and its sentence and verb structure are fairly straightforward, but the pronunciation of words is just all over the place. Why is thou pronounced thaa-u whereas though is pronounced tho-u and through is pronounced thru? Why is Worcester pronounced wooster? Why is sword pronounced sord? There are harder languages than english to learn, but english is not at all an especially easy one. Pronunciation in particular is a mess and you just have to learn the pronunciation of every word by heart because there are no general rules that you can just follow.
Pronouncation isn't big problem. You hear english words all time (movies/internet/music etc). I'm also non-native speaker and english is easy compare to other european langugues.
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On November 17 2015 22:36 Airheart wrote:
Honestly besides the whole principle thing of being able to buy and replace an entire team for shits and giggles if you feel like it I think this is all just people whining the auto relegation spot is going to be Coast again and they are worried for their favorite team. That said this team looks pretty damn stacked like the old TiP roster did (until XWX SOILED IT) so it will be interesting to see if they become a real contender. That said I hope they play around Altec hard because the dude really is the best ad in NA at the moment.
This is pretty funny. "Apart from the entire issue most people have with it, this is just about X because reasons."
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On November 18 2015 04:39 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 04:28 Numy wrote:On November 18 2015 04:25 orzeu wrote:On November 18 2015 03:57 Numy wrote:
Fnatic are actually in favour of his point not yours. ReingOver has to feed info to Huni if he doesn't understand which is what NRG may have to do. What? Huni english is fine right now. So? He spend the whole year working on it which had a situation as described until it's decent level. Even then from voice comms we hear him and Reignover sometimes talking between themselves in Korean. Saying NRG has a problem because they aren't all English then citing Fnatic as an all English team is a bit disingenuous. They weren't always able to do single language communication so well and even then it's still improving. Whole year? After one split he was doing simple interviews on camera and when he came to EU he couldn't speak at all. They don't have problem, but everything is easier if you put a bit afford and learn basic english and don't act like diva (piglet).
So then the fnatic case would say the fact they can't speak english now should be a non factor in judgment of the team. You are supporting his argument.
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EPT
