EPT[Patch 5.20] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 21
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Gragas is a good jungler sufficiency. He's just more complicated than other good junglers. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 28 2015 03:29 Ketara wrote: You guys had basically this same exact conversation with goumindong a week ago. Gragas is a good jungler sufficiency. He's just more complicated than other good junglers. So, would you play him in solo queue? Since you are a diamond V jungler and everything? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'd like to learn how, some day. Also, please don't insult me, TY. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 28 2015 03:32 Ketara wrote: No, because I don't know how to play him. I'd like to learn how, some day. Would you still make a recommendation to anyone to learn to play him, even though you are aware deep inside that there are tons of better choices out there? Edit: I am not insulting you. I am stating your rank because I believe Diamond V is a respectable rank and it demonstrates that you have good understanding of the game. I have no idea why you think I am insulting you. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Also, isn't literally everyone in this conversation arguing against you ranked as high or higher than me lol | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 28 2015 03:37 Ketara wrote: I am actually not aware deep inside that there are tons of better choices, dont speak for me k. And yes, I'd absolutely recommend that people learn to play gragas. Yet you don't know how to play him nor do you plan to learn to play him. Usually this happens because you think: 1. There are better choices out there. 2. Your current pool is good enough (despite being worse than Gragas), so it is not worth your time to play him. 3. He is hard to play, thus not worth your time. I could be wrong though. | ||
739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
The only jungler that I'm confident in saying I know how to play is sejuani. That doesn't mean I haven't played against good gragas players and seen what he's capable of, or seen what he's capable of in pro games. If I wanted to learn a new jungle champion and wanted to pick the champion who was the strongest based on my playstyle (I like tank junglers) gragas would be my number 1 choice. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On October 28 2015 01:57 Sufficiency wrote: As far as good solo queue junglers are concerned (in no particular order, on top of my head): 1. Skarner 2. Vi 3. Udyr 4. Nocturne 5. (Somewhat debatable) Amumu I think all of them are miles ahead of Reksai right now. Could you give some basis for this list rather then stating it as gospel then disagreeing with anything anyone else says? Skarners been bad for like 5 patches now, vi hasn't been very good for like half a season. Udyr is a super niche pick, but i'd hardly say he's "good for soloq." He's just a split pusher that some one tricks (get it? :p) have success with. Nocturne scales worse then lee with a worse early game. Amumu is just super vulnerable to pressure from any of the current meta junglers (elise reksai lee etc.) Only seen one guy do well on him recently and that guy went full ap. I definitely wouldn't put any of them in my top 3-4, and skarner wouldn't even be in my top 10... What on earth kind of metric did you use for this? Gragas is really strong in good hands still. He's a super tanky engager who can also peel, has tons of tools to interrupt the mobility of the other fotm champions, and has strong early ganks. He's just really hard, since you have to be very very precise with your ult and your e, so most people don't bother learning him. He's by no means weak at all though... If your metric is "i'm in silver and i want a champ i can brainlessly farm then win" then your list might be semi decent, (although not necessarily in that order) but I don't think the majority of people here are, and I don't think that's what people generally refer to when they talk about strong junglers. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 28 2015 03:44 Sufficiency wrote: Yet you don't know how to play him nor do you plan to learn to play him. Usually this happens because you think: 1. There are better choices out there. 2. Your current pool is good enough (despite being worse than Gragas), so it is not worth your time to play him. 3. He is hard to play, thus not worth your time. I could be wrong though. 4. he's not a jungle main, and jungle isn't the role where he'd try to consolidate his pool by learning a new champion if he wanted to expand it. Next time we discuss AD, if I argue against you you'll use the same "arguments" to try and enforce your view despite me having less than 6 of my 300 games played as marksman? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm comfortable mid and jungle and absolute shit tier horrible everywhere else. Anyway it's a dumb discussion. Gragas is a good champion. I feel like the only way sufficiency can argue otherwise is if he has a different definition of "good" than everybody else. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 28 2015 04:18 Ketara wrote: Actually in season 5 like 70% of my total games are jungle. I'm comfortable mid and jungle and absolute shit tier horrible everywhere else. Anyway it's a dumb discussion. Gragas is a good champion. I feel like the only way sufficiency can argue otherwise is if he has a different definition of "good" than everybody else. I just think good is relative. In a game where more than 20 champions can reasonably be played as jungler, it's mind boggling why we are so fixated on this particular champion which got a nerf almost every patch since 5.5. Worse, it is very concerning to me as to why people would recommend Gragas for other people to learn, fully knowing that he is, minimally, hard to play and hard to master. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On October 28 2015 04:23 Sufficiency wrote: I just think good is relative. In a game where more than 20 champions can reasonably be played as jungler, it's mind boggling why we are so fixated on this particular champion which got a nerf almost every patch since 5.5. Worse, it is very concerning to me as to why people would recommend Gragas for other people to learn, fully knowing that he is, minimally, hard to play and hard to master. We're not talking about what would be recommended for someone to pick up as a jungler for a gold guy who wants easy elo, in some hypothetical situation which you've concocted for the purposes of your argument. We're talking about which junglers are strong in soloq if you're good with them. Gragas definitely belongs on that list. We're only "fixated" on him because you managed to start a huge argument about he's apparently trash, which is obviously not true. I'd say, if you know what you're doing, reksai gragas kindred lee elise are probably the best and safest general purpose junglers if you're good on them. Kindred more because nobody else has any idea what she does, so she seems way stronger :p Will be interesting to see where she ends up. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I think for most people, a "good" champion means a champion that is strong in comparison to other champions when played skillfully and properly. There are other champions that are strong because they are easy to play and good champions to pick up as a fall back position for a role that you're not comfortable on. But just because it's a good champion to learn doesn't mean it's a good champion. It just means they're good enough while simultaneously being easy. Also what happened to sejuani jungle? Did Elise scare her away? Is gragas just better? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 28 2015 04:32 Ketara wrote: I think that is consistent with a different definition of good. I think for most people, a "good" champion means a champion that is strong in comparison to other champions when played skillfully and properly. There are other champions that are strong because they are easy to play and good champions to pick up as a fall back position for a role that you're not comfortable on. But just because it's a good champion to learn doesn't mean it's a good champion. It just means they're good enough while simultaneously being easy. Also what happened to sejuani jungle? Did Elise scare her away? Is gragas just better? Nah. I am sure she is just hard to play and hard to master. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Generally in le solo people prefer stuff that is good at ganking pre 6 and she doesn't really work that well in the current meta. Before cleanse vs her became popular in mid and she loses a lot of her power when people get it. | ||
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