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On September 22 2015 02:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 02:40 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 02:31 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 22 2015 00:23 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Wait... Titanic's active does bonus damage to towers? That's pretty big.
Not sure about the lack of sustain outside of his passive in teamfights, but I assume that since you're not looking to dive it works out 0K.
And I was assuming Darius beats Trundle in trades and because of this can zone him, which makes Trundle sad as he can't farm from afar like Olaf or isn't slippery like Fiora (Olaf prob gets trucked by Darius too, sadness).
I probably rely too much on playing aggressive, winning trades and freezing/zoning as ways to win lane and translate it onto the map, so I have issues figuring how Trundle can not fall behind Darius in farm and then rely on his team to take opportunity of his ult and pillar properly. i actually didnt even think of that, but having titanic to waveclear works wonders since hes always been a terror tower pusher but has bad waveclear so you could see it coming easily. with titanic you clear fast get the tower and get out. trundle loses to darius until botrk so yea you might get down like 10 cs. you have insane sustain as long as you remember to throw down W when you clear a big wave so you cant get taken out of lane. also darius is super easy to gank with pillar so there's that, I dont like to rely on jungler though. but yea as soon as you get botrk you can pretty much just run at any melee and kill them easily 1v1. Do you run into mana issues when you spam W to heal up on a big wave? Also, would Trundle lose hard vs Gnar? Gnar seems like he can get out of Trundle's BS and if he's not tanky it's less important if he's getting 3-4 man flash ults. yup gnar is feast or famine he either completely counters top lanes or gets destroyed by irelia and the like. ofc there is nothing trundle can do in this mu except sit at tower and farm but its not the end of the world. No mana issues unless jungler comes for gank, using pillar in lane is really costly early. avoid using pillar if you dont want to back Oddly champion.gg thinks that Trundle does well vs Nasus, Garen, Shen, and Irelia, and is countered by Gnar, Renekton, Malphite, and Yasuo. Then again it also lists Vladimir on both sides so I don't know how accurate this is. Why do you think Trundle gets destroyed by Irelia? Also, how does Trundle counter Nasus? I would think that Frozen Heart / Wither would wreck Trundle's DPS.
He said Gnar is countered by Irelia.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 22 2015 03:31 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 02:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:On September 22 2015 02:40 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 02:31 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 22 2015 00:23 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Wait... Titanic's active does bonus damage to towers? That's pretty big.
Not sure about the lack of sustain outside of his passive in teamfights, but I assume that since you're not looking to dive it works out 0K.
And I was assuming Darius beats Trundle in trades and because of this can zone him, which makes Trundle sad as he can't farm from afar like Olaf or isn't slippery like Fiora (Olaf prob gets trucked by Darius too, sadness).
I probably rely too much on playing aggressive, winning trades and freezing/zoning as ways to win lane and translate it onto the map, so I have issues figuring how Trundle can not fall behind Darius in farm and then rely on his team to take opportunity of his ult and pillar properly. i actually didnt even think of that, but having titanic to waveclear works wonders since hes always been a terror tower pusher but has bad waveclear so you could see it coming easily. with titanic you clear fast get the tower and get out. trundle loses to darius until botrk so yea you might get down like 10 cs. you have insane sustain as long as you remember to throw down W when you clear a big wave so you cant get taken out of lane. also darius is super easy to gank with pillar so there's that, I dont like to rely on jungler though. but yea as soon as you get botrk you can pretty much just run at any melee and kill them easily 1v1. Do you run into mana issues when you spam W to heal up on a big wave? Also, would Trundle lose hard vs Gnar? Gnar seems like he can get out of Trundle's BS and if he's not tanky it's less important if he's getting 3-4 man flash ults. yup gnar is feast or famine he either completely counters top lanes or gets destroyed by irelia and the like. ofc there is nothing trundle can do in this mu except sit at tower and farm but its not the end of the world. No mana issues unless jungler comes for gank, using pillar in lane is really costly early. avoid using pillar if you dont want to back Oddly champion.gg thinks that Trundle does well vs Nasus, Garen, Shen, and Irelia, and is countered by Gnar, Renekton, Malphite, and Yasuo. Then again it also lists Vladimir on both sides so I don't know how accurate this is. Why do you think Trundle gets destroyed by Irelia? Also, how does Trundle counter Nasus? I would think that Frozen Heart / Wither would wreck Trundle's DPS. He said Gnar is countered by Irelia.
man reading comprehension is hard
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On September 22 2015 02:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 02:40 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 02:31 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 22 2015 00:23 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Wait... Titanic's active does bonus damage to towers? That's pretty big.
Not sure about the lack of sustain outside of his passive in teamfights, but I assume that since you're not looking to dive it works out 0K.
And I was assuming Darius beats Trundle in trades and because of this can zone him, which makes Trundle sad as he can't farm from afar like Olaf or isn't slippery like Fiora (Olaf prob gets trucked by Darius too, sadness).
I probably rely too much on playing aggressive, winning trades and freezing/zoning as ways to win lane and translate it onto the map, so I have issues figuring how Trundle can not fall behind Darius in farm and then rely on his team to take opportunity of his ult and pillar properly. i actually didnt even think of that, but having titanic to waveclear works wonders since hes always been a terror tower pusher but has bad waveclear so you could see it coming easily. with titanic you clear fast get the tower and get out. trundle loses to darius until botrk so yea you might get down like 10 cs. you have insane sustain as long as you remember to throw down W when you clear a big wave so you cant get taken out of lane. also darius is super easy to gank with pillar so there's that, I dont like to rely on jungler though. but yea as soon as you get botrk you can pretty much just run at any melee and kill them easily 1v1. Do you run into mana issues when you spam W to heal up on a big wave? Also, would Trundle lose hard vs Gnar? Gnar seems like he can get out of Trundle's BS and if he's not tanky it's less important if he's getting 3-4 man flash ults. yup gnar is feast or famine he either completely counters top lanes or gets destroyed by irelia and the like. ofc there is nothing trundle can do in this mu except sit at tower and farm but its not the end of the world. No mana issues unless jungler comes for gank, using pillar in lane is really costly early. avoid using pillar if you dont want to back Oddly champion.gg thinks that Trundle does well vs Nasus, Garen, Shen, and Irelia, and is countered by Gnar, Renekton, Malphite, and Yasuo. Then again it also lists Vladimir on both sides so I don't know how accurate this is. Why do you think Trundle gets destroyed by Irelia? Also, how does Trundle counter Nasus? I would think that Frozen Heart / Wither would wreck Trundle's DPS.
he doesnt get destroyed by irelia, you just need merc treads to be able to trade like any other immobile bruiser. She will stun, combo you and then walk away until stun is up again. as soon as you have merc/botrk you can bash her face in pretty much
personally my nasus setup beats trundle since I go for damage but the way most nasus play is tank masteries and no threat early. trundle has one of the best lvl 1s. you can sit behind nasus wave from lvl 1 and out trade him easily if they have the tank/cd nasus setup. you will heavily out cs them and then late just ult/pillar them and lol.
I can attest to malphite and gnar being good counters, renek and yasuo is unlikely....
while you can ult malphite, he is an immediate impact champion, meaning once he blows his load he doesnt really care if he dies. so trundle is pretty bad vs him. Then you factor in the atk speed slow that guts him completely in lane
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On September 22 2015 02:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 02:40 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 02:31 Zdrastochye wrote:On September 22 2015 00:23 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 22 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Wait... Titanic's active does bonus damage to towers? That's pretty big.
Not sure about the lack of sustain outside of his passive in teamfights, but I assume that since you're not looking to dive it works out 0K.
And I was assuming Darius beats Trundle in trades and because of this can zone him, which makes Trundle sad as he can't farm from afar like Olaf or isn't slippery like Fiora (Olaf prob gets trucked by Darius too, sadness).
I probably rely too much on playing aggressive, winning trades and freezing/zoning as ways to win lane and translate it onto the map, so I have issues figuring how Trundle can not fall behind Darius in farm and then rely on his team to take opportunity of his ult and pillar properly. i actually didnt even think of that, but having titanic to waveclear works wonders since hes always been a terror tower pusher but has bad waveclear so you could see it coming easily. with titanic you clear fast get the tower and get out. trundle loses to darius until botrk so yea you might get down like 10 cs. you have insane sustain as long as you remember to throw down W when you clear a big wave so you cant get taken out of lane. also darius is super easy to gank with pillar so there's that, I dont like to rely on jungler though. but yea as soon as you get botrk you can pretty much just run at any melee and kill them easily 1v1. Do you run into mana issues when you spam W to heal up on a big wave? Also, would Trundle lose hard vs Gnar? Gnar seems like he can get out of Trundle's BS and if he's not tanky it's less important if he's getting 3-4 man flash ults. yup gnar is feast or famine he either completely counters top lanes or gets destroyed by irelia and the like. ofc there is nothing trundle can do in this mu except sit at tower and farm but its not the end of the world. No mana issues unless jungler comes for gank, using pillar in lane is really costly early. avoid using pillar if you dont want to back Oddly champion.gg thinks that Trundle does well vs Nasus, Garen, Shen, and Irelia, and is countered by Gnar, Renekton, Malphite, and Yasuo. Then again it also lists Vladimir on both sides so I don't know how accurate this is.
Champion.gg uses their same dumb amalgamated "ranking" system for the counters as it does for anything else you don't sort by win rate. So a champion can be near even and still score high on both sides of the counter/countered list for various reasons. Just sort by win rate instead. It's much more accurate.
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On September 22 2015 02:46 Zdrastochye wrote:
Top lane really is so skill dependent though. I know you mentioned at high diamond you don't notice many solo kills but then there's people like boxbox (and others like him) who play go for the throat mentality and force you to fight them. It's not a majority of the time, but if you're in one of those lanes you need to outplay them or beg for ganks.
well champs like that are really bad vs trundle so usually they are smart enough to sit back. I do encounter bad rivens occasionally and thats usually a 20 minute win when they are 3 levels down  protip dont fight trundle as riven 1v1
but to answer your question the more common tops in solo q can be out played by riven. darius is probably the only one that a braindead could beat riven regardless
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On September 22 2015 03:26 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Wait... Titanic's active does bonus damage to towers? That's pretty big.
. Most bonus damage on auto attacks hits towers so long as it's a one time proc. Sheen items too. TF cards do. I think nasus q stacks do. The only things that don't are things that apply to every auto attack like teemo e, and I think Nashors on-hit
trundle,vayne,jax all don't do extra dmg on towers with their procs. It isn't that simple.
tbh riven is one of those champs where it comes down to how good riven is rather than anything else
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I can beat Riven as Maokai is they go onto me and I don't get bullshat with that thing where if she's Qing and you point-blank her sometimes she doesn't get cc'd and goes straight through it.
The bigger issue is Arcane Smash's cd because you win trades by stopping her when she tries to go in, and either manfight her (if she used several Qs to reach you) or wait a bit/bait a shield when you know her Q's on cd or about to be, then go in with W.
You can't trade if you're far from your tower because her dashes' cooldowns will be back before your Q and she'll combo you twice while you only get a single rotation, plus it's Riven (aka she outruns you bootless when you've got boots2 if your base MS is low) so you won't escape.
Mostly because of that, I know a smart Riven (doesn't need good mechanics) would win that match-up 1v1 100%, luckily for me most Riven are dumb (and I still lose when they have decent mechanics because outplay the fuck out of them and it won't matter, they're playing Riven).
On September 22 2015 03:26 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Wait... Titanic's active does bonus damage to towers? That's pretty big.
. Most bonus damage on auto attacks hits towers so long as it's a one time proc. Sheen items too. TF cards do. I think nasus q stacks do. The only things that don't are things that apply to every auto attack like teemo e, and I think Nashors on-hit
Rengar's Q doesn't (because he destroyed towers ridiculously fast with aa-Q-empQ and the stacked AS buffs), Jax's W doesn't, I'm not sure if Xin's Q does, Trundle's Q doesn't, etc.
A bunch of abilities can be used as auto-resets on towers but won't apply their bonus damage nor consume the buff.
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The stolen AD from Trundle's Q applies though, it does pretty minimal damage anyways
One of my old ranked5 buddies always said if the other top wants to go ham, you should go Cho.
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On September 22 2015 05:00 ticklishmusic wrote:
The stolen AD from Trundle's Q applies though
One of my old ranked5 buddies always said if the other top wants to go ham, you should go Cho.
Titanic on Cho seems all sorts of funny to me. I wouldn't want to be in that cone.
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On September 22 2015 03:56 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 03:26 Goumindong wrote:On September 22 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Wait... Titanic's active does bonus damage to towers? That's pretty big.
. Most bonus damage on auto attacks hits towers so long as it's a one time proc. Sheen items too. TF cards do. I think nasus q stacks do. The only things that don't are things that apply to every auto attack like teemo e, and I think Nashors on-hit trundle,vayne,jax all don't do extra dmg on towers with their procs. It isn't that simple. tbh riven is one of those champs where it comes down to how good riven is rather than anything else
None of those abilities are explicitly bonus damage on hit (but rather on-attack)I think but yea it does get wonky. Rivens isn't an ability though so not expecting that to
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Nothing better than a system that differentiates between on hit and on attack.
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No it is just incredibly inconsistent. There is no logic to it. Why does diana passive proc on towers but caitlyn's doesnt? Or how garen can but renekton can't.
also i lied it works on trundle for some reason I remembered it didnt rip
or why does akali passive deal damage to towers lol
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On September 22 2015 03:27 Sufficiency wrote:
Trundle R's Nasus and Nasus dies in a teamfight, pretty much.
Pillar also screws with immobile champions a lot. If Nasus overcommits and goes too far, you ult Nasus and trap him with pillar and he just dies. If your squishy is getting brutalized, put up a pillar between them and it stalls Nasus for a quite a while.
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Yo guys,
I'm trying to figure out itembuild paths for jungle Jax. Champion.gg is not very helpful since apparently everybody just buys what the shop suggests and I have no idea how accurate that is. Plus, thinking for myself is fun!
In the past, the thing to do on Jax always seemed like 2 DPS items and 3 defense items (and Mercs).
I would reaaaaaaaaaaally love some help with this...
Chilling Smite seems a given
- I'm gold, so there is a lot lot lot of catching and skirmishes going on, Jax is already strong in that situations and I want to be able to stick to someone.
- Maybe Challenging Smite is better when I rise in ranks and teamfights become more prevalent.
Devourer or Cinderhulk
- Devourer would be one of the DPS items, Cinderhulk one of the defensive items.
- I want to get Devourer when nobody gets super fucked before my level 6 and solo dragon.
- I want to get Cinderhulk when shit goes south and/or I am performing badly before level 6.
Triforce first real item
- Everybody rushes BortK, but Triforce is just a bit more expensive and has a really good build path, plus I already have Chilling Smite.
- Triforce bursts better.
- Triforce gives me a bit defensive via my ult.
- I have no sustain then, but I won't take much damage from camps anyway because LOLWTF damage.
If Cinderhulk, what second DPS item?
- BotrK: Seems core on every single Jax, but I would get it pretty late and I don't get to do much in terms of teamfight AA, plus I can already smite to slow.
- Hextech Gunblade: Oldschool cool Jax item. Really great in duels/skirmishes due to the passive. Gives me decent MR via my ultimate. NO ATTACKSPEED THOUGH! Does the spellvamp proc on my ultimates passive damage? Nice sustain nevertheless.
What first armor item?
- How does having Cinderhulk change the value of HP? Does it become even better or can I round out other areas (like with FH) because I already got extra HP?
- Randuins: Armor and HP. Passive feels meh, I SHOULDN'T be taking that much damage from the ADC, ideally they would die before it becomes a problem for me. Active is okay I guess, for teamfight CC.
- Dead Mans Plate: Armor and HP. I run around a lot, and it gives damage and slows. No idea what to make of this, but it seems okay?
- Frozen Heart: Armor and Mana and CDR. Yes please. I need all of that. Downside: No HP!!!
- Thornmail: No idea, but I guess the combat stats the other items give are better...
- Sunfire Cape (if Devourer): I don't really need it for splitpushing or farming. No idea the value of the damage in fights though.
What MR item?
- Banshees Veil vs Spirit Visage: It seems to me like Banshees it the overall better choice. The shield is awesome, it has HP, it has MR, whats not to love. Spirit Visage on the other hand has CDR, and a heal increase in case I go Cinderhulk and get one of the sustaining DPS items.
- Locket of the Iron Solari: Everyone loves the Aegis, it is cheap, Locket has great utility. It has a little CDR, a little HP and a little MR.
What third defensive item?
- Guardian Angel: Revive passive. Should be decent when I am carrying.
- Zz'rot Portal: Lots of resistances and can defend/push a lane on its own.
- Thornmail, Frozen Heart, Randuins, Dead Mans Plate: No idea bruh, same question as first armor item...
- Warmogs: More HP seems good? But I have so low armor...
So yeah I have no real idea what is good on Jax at what point of the game and how to actually decide. Please help =(
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I'd argue that Sterak's good on him if you build Triforce.
Having sustain on Devourer is pretty darn strong because it applies BotRK's passive more often, which iirc you lifesteal off of. The dueling potential on anyone with devourer an sustain (hi Aatrox) is absurd because of how durable it makes you.
But no teamfight burst.
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Aren't those like all strategy forum questions?
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Please use the Champion specific threads in the Strategy section. Thanks!
On September 16 2015 04:22 NeoIllusions wrote:Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread. While posting standards tend to be rather lax in this thread, pointless spam will not be tolerated. Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions.
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On September 22 2015 21:08 mordek wrote:Please use the Champion specific threads in the Strategy section. Thanks! Show nested quote +On September 16 2015 04:22 NeoIllusions wrote:Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread. While posting standards tend to be rather lax in this thread, pointless spam will not be tolerated. Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions.
The biggest problem with the champion threads is that most of them are from 2013 and are irrelevant today.
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On September 22 2015 22:00 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2015 21:08 mordek wrote:Please use the Champion specific threads in the Strategy section. Thanks! On September 16 2015 04:22 NeoIllusions wrote:Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread. While posting standards tend to be rather lax in this thread, pointless spam will not be tolerated. Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. The biggest problem with the champion threads is that most of them are from 2013 and are irrelevant today.
Than make a new one.
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EPT
