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Baa?21242 Posts
VG’s General Manager Lu Wenjun discussed Chinese esports industry/economics at a mobile gaming convention held in Shanghai a few days ago. The following are excerpts of some interesting comments he dropped. The full transcript can be found her e (Chinese): http://www.gamelook.com.cn/2015/08/226901
![[image loading]](http://www.gamelook.com.cn/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/0130.jpg)
User statistics:
64 million LoL players globally, 7.5 million online concurrently. China 4.5 million online concurrently.
42.9 million Dota 2 playlers globally, 1.26 million concurrent. China peak online users was during TI5, 700k – 800k.
Dota Legends (mobile Dota game) has 43 million registered users.
Peripherals/equipment manufacturers:
China sales for the past year (2014?):
Razer – 45 million RMB
Steel Series – 80 milion RMB
Dare-U (Chinese brand) – 180 million RMB
![[image loading]](http://www.gamelook.com.cn/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/1316.jpg)
Pictured: estimated value, based on transfer fees. “Actual value could only be higher and not lower than estimated values.”
Mata – 4 million RMB ($620,000)
Fy – 3 million RMB ($467, 000)
Dandy – 3 million RMB
Hao – 2 million RMB
Iceiceice – 1 million RMB
Vasili – 1 million RMB
-Mata’s actual income (including the transfer fee?) is higher.
-Fy’s annual income exceeds 2 million RMB. The 3 million is an estimated transfer fee figure.
-VG has other 1 million RMB+ valued players, just not all listed here.
Team Sponsors/Owners:
-All esports team owners are rich second generations now.
iG’s owner is Wang Sicong, son of Wang Jianlin (wealthiest person in China) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Jianlin
-VG is owned by someone who controls multiple publicly listed companies
-OMGis owned by the son of a publicly traded company [T/N: For speculation/deductions on who owns what teams in China, you can take a look at some other stuff that’s online. Not going to list them here since they’re not mentioned, but they’re all major companies]
Team Operations:
-For a team, main income comes from:
-Largest source is sponsorship money. VG has two major sponsors, Tenwow (beverage company) and Huomao (streaming platform). Venture capital has made streaming a hot industry. Streaming platforms sign contracts with individuals and teams to have them stream.
- Prize money. VG takes a “single digit percentage” of any prize money. “It’s not very standardized/regulated” in the industry right now. Teams are trying to increase this figure.
-Business/sponsorship/spokesperson. Commercials, etc.
-Product sales, virtual and physical.
-In 2014, VG, through third party companies, submitted 10 couriers to the Dota2 shop, 6 were approved. The shop [T/N: Assuming Steam/Perfect World] gets 70%, and the creator/seller gets 30%. For VG, half of the 30% (so 15% of total) went to the third party companies who developed the couriers. At the end, VG got a total of 600,000 RMB of profit [T/N: profit, not sales] This was before any serious management/development from VG, and is an area they want to focus on more.
More Economics/Numbers Stuff
-Streamers can get a 7 figure RMB streaming contract. [T/N: he did not specify if these are the top or average streamers]
-Typical player has annual income of a few hundred thousands RMB, a "fraction" of a streamer's.
-Teams operate at heavy losses.
-VG lost 3 - 4 million RMB in its first year, and lost 5 - 6 million RMB in the second year. "Slightly better this year." [T/N: VG was established in 2013]
![[image loading]](http://www.gamelook.com.cn/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2210.jpg)
VG's sponsors. Top- Current, Bottom- Past
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
$620.000/year for Mata? Damn it son.
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I'm more interested in the fact that, at least for VG, they take "a single digit percentage" (so at most, 9%) of any prize money earned by the players for the organization itself. But they themselves admit they want this percentage to be higher, which would make it akin to some major traditional sports (for example, there's usually a huge kerfuffle from NBA team owners and players on TV earnings every 3-5 years, and while they argue over percentage points it's literal tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of dollars EVERY YEAR that they are arguing over).
I would hazard a guess that most of the star players in China and Korea (Mata, Faker, iceiceice, Fy, Dandi) probably make around $1 million USD every year via salary, prize winnings, sponsorships, and streamer money.
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Baa?21242 Posts
He also indicated that streaming contracts are signed with the team, who arrange for the individual players to stream, so it's possible teams take a much larger share there.
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I'm surprised Xiao8 wasn't listed there. I thought his transfer fee was pretty huge from NB to LGD. Overall it sounds like he's saying teams are making serious money there. Always thought they were tanking money but keeping afloat by their owners.
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I'm very disappointed in VG giving more money to Mata who's a support fraud rather than fy who's a support god.
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Yeah the star players make a lot of money. I'm curious how much middle tier players make. Like what do EDG subs make? Or the players on QG (there was a post that that suggested their coach was making 160k a year, so I wonder how much the players are making).
Vasili made a ton of money in his transfer, and he's not even on the main roster atm lol.
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On August 27 2015 01:47 thejuju wrote:
I'm very disappointed in VG giving more money to Mata who's a support fraud rather than fy who's a support god.
That's just a case of Dota 2 not being that big in CN. Frauds in league get more than Gods in Dota 
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On August 27 2015 01:53 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:47 thejuju wrote:
I'm very disappointed in VG giving more money to Mata who's a support fraud rather than fy who's a support god.
That's just a case of Dota 2 not being that big in CN. Frauds in league get more than Gods in Dota
I can't tell if this is sarcasm
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None of it. Mata is Uzi level fraud.
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On August 27 2015 02:11 Numy wrote:
None of it. Mata is Uzi level fraud.
TAKE THAT BACK DON'T DARE PUT THE FRAUDULENT MATA ON THE SAME LEVEL AS STRUGGLING ADC GOD UZI
i was more referring to "dota2 not being big in china", because i'm pretty sure it is
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Nah it's pretty small. Even in the post it mentions numbers difference.
64 million LoL players globally, 7.5 million online concurrently. China 4.5 million online concurrently.
42.9 million Dota 2 playlers globally, 1.26 million concurrent. China peak online users was during TI5, 700k – 800k.
Dota Legends (mobile Dota game) has 43 million registered users.
I think the numbers for War3 are bigger than Dota 2 in China.
ps: Is Uzi the biggest fraud ever? We may never know since he won't be off the bench!
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Probably yeah I'm not very knowledgeable about chinese interwebs. I got thrown off because I knew War3 was pretty big in China or something
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9070 Posts
For me the most interesting bit are the streaming contracts - to me it means twitch/youtube will never be able to penetrate so chinese teams will stay isolated and have a market functioning under its own rules.
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Mind to tell me where in the article you found the ''user statistics'' you provide?Because i know a bit of basic Chinese and didnt found them nowhere in this article
Also, the globally million players for DotA2 you show, make no sense.In the official site of dota2 the monthly active players are 11,8m and not 42,9m.Besides how plausible it is for dota2 having 2/3 of global LoL players when,using the stats you provide,its concurrent players are the 1/6 of league lol.
Lastly,the LoL numbers are announced every 2 years.Even if your numbers are indeed in the article(which i didnt found and i will be glad if you showed me the part where it says it)then he uses the official numbers from January 2014.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On August 27 2015 02:54 Iubyejrooo wrote:
Mind to tell me where in the article you found the ''user statistics'' you provide?Because i know a bit of basic Chinese and didnt found them nowhere in this article
Also, the globally million players for DotA2 you show, make no sense.In the official site of dota2 the monthly active players are 11,8m and not 42,9m.Besides how plausible it is for dota2 having 2/3 of global LoL players when,using the stats you provide,its concurrent players are the 1/6 of league lol.
Lastly,the LoL numbers are announced every 2 years.Even if your numbers are indeed in the article(which i didnt found and i will be glad if you showed me the part where it says it)then he uses the official numbers from January 2014.
It's right under the third picture:
首先是第一部分，我截取了目前全世界最流行的2款游戏，一款是《英雄联盟》，另一款是dota2它们的一些数据情况。可以看到LOL全球用户6420万，同时在线750万，其中中国最高在线450万，腾讯是立了大功。dota2用户4290万，同时在线126万 ，最近国内Dota2最高在线是TI5的时候，达到70-80万人。
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Now we know why the korean exodus happened, kespa aint gunna pay the players that much lmao
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On August 27 2015 02:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 02:54 Iubyejrooo wrote:
Mind to tell me where in the article you found the ''user statistics'' you provide?Because i know a bit of basic Chinese and didnt found them nowhere in this article
Also, the globally million players for DotA2 you show, make no sense.In the official site of dota2 the monthly active players are 11,8m and not 42,9m.Besides how plausible it is for dota2 having 2/3 of global LoL players when,using the stats you provide,its concurrent players are the 1/6 of league lol.
Lastly,the LoL numbers are announced every 2 years.Even if your numbers are indeed in the article(which i didnt found and i will be glad if you showed me the part where it says it)then he uses the official numbers from January 2014. It's right under the third picture: 首先是第一部分，我截取了目前全世界最流行的2款游戏，一款是《英雄联盟》，另一款是dota2它们的一些数据情况。可以看到LOL全球用户6420万，同时在线750万，其中中国最高在线450万，腾讯是立了大功。dota2用户4290万，同时在线126万 ，最近国内Dota2最高在线是TI5的时候，达到70-80万人。
Ok thanks.Must be a typo then because literally every other source i checked refers to Dota2 having around 11 million monthly active players.I would say that maybe these would be new statistics or something but the concurrent players agree with the other sources of 1,26 million.
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[QUOTE]On August 27 2015 03:07 Iubyejrooo wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 27 2015 02:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 27 2015 02:54 Iubyejrooo wrote:
Mind to tell me where in the article you found the ''user statistics'' you provide?Because i know a bit of basic Chinese and didnt found them nowhere in this article
Also, the globally million players for DotA2 you show, make no sense.In the official site of dota2 the monthly active players are 11,8m and not 42,9m.Besides how plausible it is for dota2 having 2/3 of global LoL players when,using the stats you provide,its concurrent players are the 1/6 of league lol.
Lastly,the LoL numbers are announced every 2 years.Even if your numbers are indeed in the article(which i didnt found and i will be glad if you showed me the part where it says it)then he uses the official numbers from January 2014.[/QUOTE]
It's right under the third picture:
首先是第一部分，我截取了目前全世界最流行的2款游戏，一款是《英雄联盟》，另一款是dota2它们的一些数据情况。可以看到LOL全球用户6420万，同时在线750万，其中中国最高在线450万，腾讯是立了大功。dota2用户4290万，同时在线126万 ，最近国内Dota2最高在线是TI5的时候，达到70-80万人。[/QUOTE]
Ok thanks.Must be a typo then because literally every other source i checked refers to Dota2 having around 11 million monthly active players.I would say that maybe these would be new statistics or something but the concurrent players it provides agree with the other sources,as well as Valve's official numbers
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On August 27 2015 02:54 Iubyejrooo wrote:
Mind to tell me where in the article you found the ''user statistics'' you provide?Because i know a bit of basic Chinese and didnt found them nowhere in this article
Also, the globally million players for DotA2 you show, make no sense.In the official site of dota2 the monthly active players are 11,8m and not 42,9m.Besides how plausible it is for dota2 having 2/3 of global LoL players when,using the stats you provide,its concurrent players are the 1/6 of league lol.
Lastly,the LoL numbers are announced every 2 years.Even if your numbers are indeed in the article(which i didnt found and i will be glad if you showed me the part where it says it)then he uses the official numbers from January 2014.
The numbers could probably be overall number of players - not necessarily the monthly numbers.
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VG paid $620,000 to Samsung to acquire Mata?
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EPT
