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On July 02 2015 06:51 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 06:27 Fildun wrote:
On both Xin and Rengar going red smite is a pretty good option, but that's more of a stylistic choice as well. On Jarvan I guess it's the best?
Anyway, the point I was originally making was that in most pro matches, with champs like Gragas, Reksai, Eve and Sej, people still go Trailblazer 80-90% of the time, which is just straight up a mistake. red smite sucks now that its not on hit its only good to reduce damage I don't think its worth the loss in farm and hp and shit
Doesn't it still just do a DoT on autoattack?
Also for Sej, getting blue smite is pretty good because it sets up for easier Q/R hits on ganks.
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On July 02 2015 06:17 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 06:13 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:10 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 05:56 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 02 2015 05:42 Fildun wrote:
I don't get why anybody would build Trailblazer on any champion ever. You basically concede a fighting summoner for no substantial gain. Even on stuff like Eve you're way better off picking up red smite and buying a couple pots. I used to think this way too about my Junglers but I came to the realization that faster jungle clears means more money and that translates into faster power spikes. In my case, it was with Diana. From level 4-9, she has a decent kit for jungling but with Blasting Smite, you really breeze thru your side of the jungle. I find fast clear times rather important for Diana, considering how big a difference that first NLR can be. Also obligatory mention of Nunu with Ranger's, because steal more things. I def agree combat Smites are better (Stalker's or Skirmisher's, based on your preference) but it's definitely not 100% black and white. I'd say for Sej, I like Stalker's but apparently everyone and their mom also go Ranger's on her too. Probably for the same reason as above but you can buy cheaper item prereqs for Sej and nothing is as expensive as an NLR. Well, most currently played junglers, unlike Diana, can clear the small monsters pretty well, so they don't need Trailblazer for the AoE. On every jungler that can clear the small minions it's effectively a waste imo, because you can still just smite the big guy for the same effect but now you also have an extra combat summoner. For stuff like Nunu and Diana it does make sense though. Kinda. Why do you think Diana has issues with small monsters? Between Pale Cascade, Moonsilver Blade, and eventually Runeglaive she just straight up murders stuff. Idk, I don't play Diana nor have seen her much, and Neo claims that she has faster clears with Trailblazer (faster than with other upgraded smites) so there must be some problem with the small monsters, otherwise the Trailblazer wouldn't be faster.
Of course it increases clear speed. Unless a champion immediately kills little monsters, Trailblazer will always kill faster.
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I just get purple smite on almost everything, probably not optimal but hey.
This is greatest new PBE summoner icon.
![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-phhmHmGwEGk/VZQ401_m-wI/AAAAAAAAEd0/D95Y-uCXXBA/s1600/profileIcon894.jpg)
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On July 02 2015 06:51 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 06:43 Kinie wrote:
Cinderhulk Vi's clear is decent, there's still mana issues if you try to hard jungle farm on her without Ranger's smite, but considering you usually don't want to hard farm as Vi it isnt as much of a problem. I don't think cinderhulk vi is a good idea just because she relies so much on burst damage and she utility as she lives longer (assuming you aren't building damage) is really quite low compared to pretty much every other cinderhulk jungle she doesnt even have the sticking power to use the tank stats well.
See, I thought that as well, but when the new Black Cleaver was added, I figured I'd give Cinderhulk + BC Vi a try. And it's disgusting how tanky she gets and her sticking power increased so much. The shield she gets from her passive becomes quite large because it's based off her max HP, and with Cinderhulk's mutiplicative properties you can still get to 4k health with only one other large HP source (Spirit Visage, Randiuns, Banshees Veil, or Locket usually) when you already have the Cinderhulk and BC, and that's with her going 21/9.
And it's not like people haven't built Phage on her before. Beforehand it was to go for the Triforce and to just 100-0 someone out. But for 700 gold less you get an item that still gives her the Phage passive, more health than Triforce, and 20% CDR, which is a "luxury" stat that she greatly benefits from on all her active skills. The armor shred helps her tear through tanks (and the E deals physical damage, so the shockwave will shred armor too) and lets her deal basically true damage to an ADC or AP carry. The things she loses out on are the Sheen proc and the bonus movement speed from Zeal.
Yes, she probably benefits better from Warrior enchant because it's cheaper compared to the 3k gold sink of BC, but if you get a bunch of free gold on her (which is more than likely because it's Vi), and your team needs a front line, give it a try.
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Cinderhulk into cleaver is great but you have no resistances for quite a while and you have to be mindful of that.
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On July 02 2015 06:58 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 06:17 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 06:13 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:10 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 05:56 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 02 2015 05:42 Fildun wrote:
I don't get why anybody would build Trailblazer on any champion ever. You basically concede a fighting summoner for no substantial gain. Even on stuff like Eve you're way better off picking up red smite and buying a couple pots. I used to think this way too about my Junglers but I came to the realization that faster jungle clears means more money and that translates into faster power spikes. In my case, it was with Diana. From level 4-9, she has a decent kit for jungling but with Blasting Smite, you really breeze thru your side of the jungle. I find fast clear times rather important for Diana, considering how big a difference that first NLR can be. Also obligatory mention of Nunu with Ranger's, because steal more things. I def agree combat Smites are better (Stalker's or Skirmisher's, based on your preference) but it's definitely not 100% black and white. I'd say for Sej, I like Stalker's but apparently everyone and their mom also go Ranger's on her too. Probably for the same reason as above but you can buy cheaper item prereqs for Sej and nothing is as expensive as an NLR. Well, most currently played junglers, unlike Diana, can clear the small monsters pretty well, so they don't need Trailblazer for the AoE. On every jungler that can clear the small minions it's effectively a waste imo, because you can still just smite the big guy for the same effect but now you also have an extra combat summoner. For stuff like Nunu and Diana it does make sense though. Kinda. Why do you think Diana has issues with small monsters? Between Pale Cascade, Moonsilver Blade, and eventually Runeglaive she just straight up murders stuff. Idk, I don't play Diana nor have seen her much, and Neo claims that she has faster clears with Trailblazer (faster than with other upgraded smites) so there must be some problem with the small monsters, otherwise the Trailblazer wouldn't be faster. Of course it increases clear speed. Unless a champion immediately kills little monsters, Trailblazer will always kill faster.
Except if you have aoe you don't have to auto the small so it doesn't actually matter at all.
Seen the cinderhulk/bc vi and while it isn't bad it is just pointless.Why pick vi and instead of trying to abuse her good points you try to go tanky?Why not pick a tank and go tanky?Reminds me of the rengars who don't go only damage pls....
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On July 02 2015 07:55 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 06:58 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:17 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 06:13 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:10 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 05:56 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 02 2015 05:42 Fildun wrote:
I don't get why anybody would build Trailblazer on any champion ever. You basically concede a fighting summoner for no substantial gain. Even on stuff like Eve you're way better off picking up red smite and buying a couple pots. I used to think this way too about my Junglers but I came to the realization that faster jungle clears means more money and that translates into faster power spikes. In my case, it was with Diana. From level 4-9, she has a decent kit for jungling but with Blasting Smite, you really breeze thru your side of the jungle. I find fast clear times rather important for Diana, considering how big a difference that first NLR can be. Also obligatory mention of Nunu with Ranger's, because steal more things. I def agree combat Smites are better (Stalker's or Skirmisher's, based on your preference) but it's definitely not 100% black and white. I'd say for Sej, I like Stalker's but apparently everyone and their mom also go Ranger's on her too. Probably for the same reason as above but you can buy cheaper item prereqs for Sej and nothing is as expensive as an NLR. Well, most currently played junglers, unlike Diana, can clear the small monsters pretty well, so they don't need Trailblazer for the AoE. On every jungler that can clear the small minions it's effectively a waste imo, because you can still just smite the big guy for the same effect but now you also have an extra combat summoner. For stuff like Nunu and Diana it does make sense though. Kinda. Why do you think Diana has issues with small monsters? Between Pale Cascade, Moonsilver Blade, and eventually Runeglaive she just straight up murders stuff. Idk, I don't play Diana nor have seen her much, and Neo claims that she has faster clears with Trailblazer (faster than with other upgraded smites) so there must be some problem with the small monsters, otherwise the Trailblazer wouldn't be faster. Of course it increases clear speed. Unless a champion immediately kills little monsters, Trailblazer will always kill faster. Except if you have aoe you don't have to auto the small so it doesn't actually matter at all. Seen the cinderhulk/bc vi and while it isn't bad it is just pointless.Why pick vi and instead of trying to abuse her good points you try to go tanky?Why not pick a tank and go tanky?Reminds me of the rengars who don't go only damage pls....
And neither does Diana because her 3 shield globes pop on everything, Q hits the entire camp, and you're getting passive cleaves for hitting the big bad. Diana is an AOE jungler.
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On July 02 2015 07:55 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 06:58 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:17 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 06:13 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:10 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 05:56 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 02 2015 05:42 Fildun wrote:
I don't get why anybody would build Trailblazer on any champion ever. You basically concede a fighting summoner for no substantial gain. Even on stuff like Eve you're way better off picking up red smite and buying a couple pots. I used to think this way too about my Junglers but I came to the realization that faster jungle clears means more money and that translates into faster power spikes. In my case, it was with Diana. From level 4-9, she has a decent kit for jungling but with Blasting Smite, you really breeze thru your side of the jungle. I find fast clear times rather important for Diana, considering how big a difference that first NLR can be. Also obligatory mention of Nunu with Ranger's, because steal more things. I def agree combat Smites are better (Stalker's or Skirmisher's, based on your preference) but it's definitely not 100% black and white. I'd say for Sej, I like Stalker's but apparently everyone and their mom also go Ranger's on her too. Probably for the same reason as above but you can buy cheaper item prereqs for Sej and nothing is as expensive as an NLR. Well, most currently played junglers, unlike Diana, can clear the small monsters pretty well, so they don't need Trailblazer for the AoE. On every jungler that can clear the small minions it's effectively a waste imo, because you can still just smite the big guy for the same effect but now you also have an extra combat summoner. For stuff like Nunu and Diana it does make sense though. Kinda. Why do you think Diana has issues with small monsters? Between Pale Cascade, Moonsilver Blade, and eventually Runeglaive she just straight up murders stuff. Idk, I don't play Diana nor have seen her much, and Neo claims that she has faster clears with Trailblazer (faster than with other upgraded smites) so there must be some problem with the small monsters, otherwise the Trailblazer wouldn't be faster. Of course it increases clear speed. Unless a champion immediately kills little monsters, Trailblazer will always kill faster. Except if you have aoe you don't have to auto the small so it doesn't actually matter at all. Seen the cinderhulk/bc vi and while it isn't bad it is just pointless.Why pick vi and instead of trying to abuse her good points you try to go tanky?Why not pick a tank and go tanky?Reminds me of the rengars who don't go only damage pls....
Perhaps one of the best engage tools in the game, or the heavy armor shred, or the constant shield. That's a really reductionist view of champions.
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On July 02 2015 08:15 Caiada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 07:55 nafta wrote:On July 02 2015 06:58 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:17 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 06:13 Gahlo wrote:On July 02 2015 06:10 Fildun wrote:On July 02 2015 05:56 NeoIllusions wrote:On July 02 2015 05:42 Fildun wrote:
I don't get why anybody would build Trailblazer on any champion ever. You basically concede a fighting summoner for no substantial gain. Even on stuff like Eve you're way better off picking up red smite and buying a couple pots. I used to think this way too about my Junglers but I came to the realization that faster jungle clears means more money and that translates into faster power spikes. In my case, it was with Diana. From level 4-9, she has a decent kit for jungling but with Blasting Smite, you really breeze thru your side of the jungle. I find fast clear times rather important for Diana, considering how big a difference that first NLR can be. Also obligatory mention of Nunu with Ranger's, because steal more things. I def agree combat Smites are better (Stalker's or Skirmisher's, based on your preference) but it's definitely not 100% black and white. I'd say for Sej, I like Stalker's but apparently everyone and their mom also go Ranger's on her too. Probably for the same reason as above but you can buy cheaper item prereqs for Sej and nothing is as expensive as an NLR. Well, most currently played junglers, unlike Diana, can clear the small monsters pretty well, so they don't need Trailblazer for the AoE. On every jungler that can clear the small minions it's effectively a waste imo, because you can still just smite the big guy for the same effect but now you also have an extra combat summoner. For stuff like Nunu and Diana it does make sense though. Kinda. Why do you think Diana has issues with small monsters? Between Pale Cascade, Moonsilver Blade, and eventually Runeglaive she just straight up murders stuff. Idk, I don't play Diana nor have seen her much, and Neo claims that she has faster clears with Trailblazer (faster than with other upgraded smites) so there must be some problem with the small monsters, otherwise the Trailblazer wouldn't be faster. Of course it increases clear speed. Unless a champion immediately kills little monsters, Trailblazer will always kill faster. Except if you have aoe you don't have to auto the small so it doesn't actually matter at all. Seen the cinderhulk/bc vi and while it isn't bad it is just pointless.Why pick vi and instead of trying to abuse her good points you try to go tanky?Why not pick a tank and go tanky?Reminds me of the rengars who don't go only damage pls.... Perhaps one of the best engage tools in the game, or the heavy armor shred, or the constant shield. That's a really reductionist view of champions.
"best engage tools" lol.You mean one of the strongest ganking tools.Her teamfight engage is average compared to the real good engagers.
She is amazing as followup engage though.But that works better with damage items.
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Even during the era of Warrior junglers Vi was hovering around the top tier discussion because she was a warrior enchant jungler who wasn't useless if they didn't get off any successful ganks in the early game due to her Q and ult, plus she benefited from going tanky compared to the other warrior junglers who really didn't benefit from it as much (save for Rek'Sai, but she's got a strong kit in general).
And yes, you don't have much in the way of resistances for Cinderhulk/BC Vi if you rush those two items first. But to me that's a benefit in her kit; you can sit on a Phage for a while and go tanky with a Randuins and still get the stickiness that you want in that build. Or you can get the Kindlegem and rush a Locket and then start building the components for BC.
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It was also a different meta with different requirements for champions.Compared to lee/kha/rengar/pant(wu/j4 proly equal to her) obviously she will have stronger late cuz she is brainless to play and when you have assassins and hard engage supports it is incredibly easy to pick one target and kill them.Nowadays compared to the actual tank junglers she does in fact suck later.Which is why it makes more sense to abuse your power spikes.
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I think the overall point I'm trying to make is that Vi is/should be a jungle champion that is viable in most games/metas as at least an option if your A-tier junglers are banned out.
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I never said she isn't viable I think she is a good pick.Brainless point and click champs will always be good unless their numbers are just too shit.
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A decently-ranged gap-closing stun will basically always have a place no matter the meta and no matter what you need to build on them. It's like people forget that Lee and Eve are not the only early junglers who *also* do well with tank stats.
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Now, for something completely different:
Has Riot given out the free champion yet for NA, or are they still dragging their heels on that?
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Riot letting you buy Victorious skins seems like a new low for casualness if it actually happens.
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what is even the point of the skin if they did that?
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Don't care, protoss Elise best Eleise.
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That sucks. Is nothing sacred?
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I'm usually all for the anybody can buy anything mindset and don't really care about legacy skins. But this basically removes any interest I have in the Victorious skin.
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657
EPT
