| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On January 31 2015 14:16 Frolossus wrote: winrate is a shit indicator as to the actual balance of a character A champions winrate jumping up 8% in one day after a buff is a pretty big indication of balance (or lack thereof), IMO. If you look at it league by league for Ahri, the gap gets bigger the higher the league is, which I think is funny. | ||
|
Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On January 31 2015 14:22 Kinie wrote: Yet whenever we see a champion creep to a 55+% win rate Riot seems to nerf them or put them on a watch list. And again, the issue is that if you go CDR on her (Morello vs AD, Athenes vs AP) you can spam your Q and just be the ultimate kiting Mage until the enemy dies. Its honestly not too hard to get those two items relatively quickly. most of riot's balance staff is pretty bad at achieving actual balance winrates don't really matter because there are many factors that roll into that over whatever the sample size of games are. for instance, looking at a particular champion's winrate in bronze vs challenger might indicate 2 radically different things. given that the majority of the playerbase is horridly low elo i don't think that overall trends mean much of anything. | ||
|
101toss
3232 Posts
On January 31 2015 14:22 Kinie wrote: Yet whenever we see a champion creep to a 55+% win rate Riot seems to nerf them or put them on a watch list. And again, the issue is that if you go CDR on her (Morello vs AD, Athenes vs AP) you can spam your Q and just be the ultimate kiting Mage until the enemy dies. Its honestly not too hard to get those two items relatively quickly. This isn't even creeping to 55%+, it jumped up right after the patch. I know riot doesn't like to balance on win rate (see the comment when Warwick got nerfed) but it's much better than nerfing champions based on "OMG FAKER ZED xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD". I know it sounds like I'm QQing or something but I can tell you from experience that when I elo boosted back in the day, I would just sort champions by win rates and play the highest win rate champions. Probably the best way to gain elo albeit pretty dull, especially when you have a champion that sticks out like a sore thumb. Ahri is 57% and growing with an already high popularity, which normally should drag down the win rate, while the next highest is Sivir at a solid 54%, 3 whole percentage points lower. Usually when something is that high, something changes (see Reksai, Warwick, and Rammus). | ||
|
iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
With 40 CDR its up every 50seconds... You can literally ult every second wave. Its not exactly reliable wave clear, but he still has it. Which is more than most Junglers can say. Let me know the next time you see a LeeSin/Jarvan/et.al clear a full wave in 1 second safely from a range. I mean compared to Ziggs he has no waveclear at all, but you can't compare him to Ziggs, have to compare him to other junglers. On January 31 2015 13:53 Slusher wrote: The other thing I really like about Nunu is unlike other jungles I feel like there is no cost benefit to buying a sightstone, on like Jarvan I feel like I"m giving something up but on Nunu I feel like, what else would I rush? He really likes the Tanky CDR items a lot. You get huge mileage out of like Cowl/Glacial. You can also build Nunu pretty much however the hell you want. Pretty much only champ in the game that likes basically every stat in the game. I've found I dont buy sightstone much anymore, that Green Trinket upgrade gets you about the same warding power as SS realistically given the 3 ward per champion cap, and with double smite / wraith buff you dont even really need the red trinket as a jungler. You save 550 gold to spend on other stuff (and greens till level 9). 550g/75g/w = 7.33 wards. You have to place eight wards in addition to your trinket wards before level nine to get to the point where you save money by buying sightstone. You also dont have to spend that 250 gold until the 10 minute mark when its kind of pocket change, and you get to keep your item slot. Honestly, I dont place 8 wards in addition to trinket wards by level 9, and I ranked like top 10% in wards per game last season according to: http://wardscore.loltools.net/ Eight wards... Thats a fuckload of wards to place by the 10 minute mark when you typically hit level 10. Most Challenger players average ~12 wards per game INCLUDING the trinket wards. According to Elophant, the average challenger player world wide only puts up 5.3 wards in addition to trinket wards per game. http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/charts/tier Math says not buying sightstone gets you more combat stats and same number of wards at a time when each and every combat stat is worth the most. I think the extra armor/MR/whatever lets me snowball a little harder. | ||
|
101toss
3232 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:09 iCanada wrote: With 40 CDR its up every 50seconds... You can literally ult every second wave. Its not exactly reliable wave clear, but he still has it. Which is more than most Junglers can say. Let me know the next time you see a LeeSin/Jarvan/et.al clear a full wave in 1 second safely from a range. I mean compared to Ziggs he has no waveclear at all. He really likes the Tanky CDR items a lot. You get huge mileage out of like Cowl/Glacial. You can also build Nunu pretty much however the hell you want. Pretty much only champ in the game that likes basically every stat in the game. I've found I dont buy sightstone much anymore, that Green Trinket upgrade gets you about the same warding power as SS realistically given the 3 ward per champion cap, and with double smite / wraith buff you dont even really need the red trinket as a jungler. You save 550 gold to spend on other stuff (and greens till level 9). 550g/75g/w = 7.33 wards. You have to place eight wards in addition to your trinket wards before level nine to get to the point where you save money by buying sightstone. You also dont have to spend that 250 gold until the 10 minute mark when its kind of pocket change, and you get to keep your item slot. Honestly, I dont place 8 wards in addition to trinket wards by level 9, and I ranked like top 10% in wards per game last season according to: http://wardscore.loltools.net/ Eight wards... Thats a fuckload of wards to place by the 10 minute mark when you typically hit level 10. Most Challenger players average ~12 wards per game INCLUDING the trinket wards. According to Elophant, the average challenger player world wide only puts up 5.3 wards in addition to trinket wards per game. http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/charts/tier Math says not buying sightstone gets you more combat stats and same number of wards at a time when each and every combat stat is worth the most. I think the extra armor/MR/whatever lets me snowball a little harder. You don't need much more than the trinket ward if you have game sense and map awareness | ||
|
iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:12 101toss wrote: You don't need much more than the trinket ward if you have game sense and map awareness Agreed. I think there are times when you need more, but for the most part that is after the 10 minute mark when the Upgraded trinket does the trick regardless. | ||
|
TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
EDIT: just in terms of itemization choices | ||
|
Ketara
United States15065 Posts
| ||
|
oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:36 TheHumanSensation wrote: Probuilds is all over the place, can someone give me a quick run-down on running Lulu in a solo lane? EDIT: just in terms of itemization choices Depends on what do you want to do in game. Like, if you want midgame fights with adc who's not dead meat, then morellonomicon into deathcap/hourglass is way to go. Morellonomicon or athenes unholy grail/lichbane/deathcap is lovely on top, you don't really need early void staff on Lulu at all, but lichbane is more about splitpushing obviously. Big CDR for Lulu is important a lot, so for boots ionian boots of lucidity are amazing. On January 31 2015 15:38 Ketara wrote: What the fuck do you buy for an armor item on ranged supports? Hourglass for Morgana, Annie/Lulu can use casual wardens mail or glacial shroud with frozen hearting your way after getting talisman/locket. Thresh is basically second tank in fights all the time anyway, Janna/Nami don't need armor at all. On January 31 2015 15:42 obesechicken13 wrote: Just took a look through Riot's API. They did a decent job in making it easy to use. There's no active summoners list though to show you who's been playing so building that up could take time. Other than that, it should be possible to dig down into the data and try to find interesting statistics. Like annie win rate for people who've played her 10 times this patch. *sigh* I miss sufficiency... Ashe killed Sufficiency, rest in pepperonis. | ||
|
obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
There's no active summoners list though to show you who's been playing so building that up could take time. Other than that, it should be possible to dig down into the data and try to find interesting statistics. Like annie win rate for people who've played her 10 times this patch. *sigh* I miss sufficiency... On January 31 2015 15:38 Ketara wrote: What the fuck do you buy for an armor item on ranged supports? Randuins, Frozen Heart, and armguard are all great. | ||
|
TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:38 Ketara wrote: What the fuck do you buy for an armor item on ranged supports? If you can get away with them, Zhonya's (bad build path) is useful on the obvious ones, and Frozen Heart (great build path) is generally useful on others. And thanks, Wonderful! | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:12 101toss wrote: You don't need much more than the trinket ward if you have game sense and map awareness Don't ever post something like this ever again. | ||
|
TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Don't ever post something like this ever again. To be fair, that person is talking about the upgraded green ward trinket (1 minute CD, up to 3 wards on the field from it alone) on Nunu as a jungler specifically. Out of context, the idea is obviously objectionable. | ||
|
Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:54 TheHumanSensation wrote: To be fair, that person is talking about the upgraded green ward trinket (1 minute CD, up to 3 wards on the field from it alone) on Nunu as a jungler specifically. Out of context, the idea is obviously objectionable. Even in that situation, if you're actually trying to win, you're going have to be able to sometimes drop more than 1 ward every 1 minute, unless you're playing in Cardboard 5. Buying wards may not have a casual relationship to directly winning the game, but the number of wards you buy is strongly correlated with your MMR. If wards weren't useful then players at the highest soloq level would stop buying them, because they compete directly with item slots and elixirs. | ||
|
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
| ||
|
MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
I really wish they'd let you buy more than 3 wards at a time, even if you can only place 3 of them concurrently. It is frustrating to lose games during the awkward shuffle around baron as people run out of wards and either face check or give up the objective or try to sneak back one at a time. | ||
|
Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On January 31 2015 15:42 obesechicken13 wrote: Just took a look through Riot's API. They did a decent job in making it easy to use. There's no active summoners list though to show you who's been playing so building that up could take time. Other than that, it should be possible to dig down into the data and try to find interesting statistics. Like annie win rate for people who've played her 10 times this patch. *sigh* I miss sufficiency... Randuins, Frozen Heart, and armguard are all great. Here's some Sufficiency-tier analysis for you to look at while he's gone: http://loltopcomp.com/ | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
l0l wards | ||
|
Slusher
United States19143 Posts
idk, I just think nunu loses almost nothing by going sightstone first, something that isn't true for a lot of other jungles, and if you place good wards that show your team where the enemy jungler is, and you ping him in the wards, as well as consume the crabs whenever possible, you are in a way everywhere at once. I mean I don't know why you are playing nunu if you don't want to play a supportive style | ||
|
101toss
3232 Posts
On January 31 2015 16:00 Zess wrote: Even in that situation, if you're actually trying to win, you're going have to be able to sometimes drop more than 1 ward every 1 minute, unless you're playing in Cardboard 5. Buying wards may not have a casual relationship to directly winning the game, but the number of wards you buy is strongly correlated with your MMR. If wards weren't useful then players at the highest soloq level would stop buying them, because they compete directly with item slots and elixirs. Nowadays I use primarily the trinket, maybe adding a vision ward or regular ward here and there if the game merits it, but more often than not a well-placed trinket ward will suffice if you know what you are doing. Even if your ward gets sweeped, you know where the jungler is when he sweeps your ward and more often than not your trinket ward will be back up when it's a safe time to re-ward. My current MMR is arguably respectable (mid-masters but then again all elos are trash). Maybe you could argue that if I bought more wards I might be in challenger or something, but hey, buying wards isn't fun since they don't help you kill champions. Back in the day, I got to high diamond 1 (way before masters was a thing) with top nunu, maybe buying 1 or 2 wards for each game. Because of the trinkets, I have way more wards used than before, but the whole wards win games stuff is way overhyped, and buying individual wards, let alone sightstone on supports usually takes up too much gold and space. Oh and current nunu is terrible, jungle or top lane. Your best bet is a tanky supportish role but you might as well pick a champion that actually does something and comes with more tankiness, say amumu or sejuani. There's a reason champions have high or low win rates, and nunu's is relatively low. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Dota 2 League of Legends Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Heroes of the Storm Other Games |
|
IntoTheTV X SOOP
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
The PondCast
Kung Fu Cup
IntoTheTV X SOOP
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
WardiTV Invitational
GSL
Epic.LAN
Replay Cast
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
