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JChen
United States48 Posts
2-TSM 3-TL 4-CLG 5-TiP 6-Team8 7-WFX 8-Dig 9-Gravity 10-Coast Curious to see how the new wave of foreign talent will fare. I would not be surprised if C9 went as low as 3rd place this split though (only to recapture 2nd or 1st in spring split playoffs) | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On January 14 2015 08:17 LimpingGoat wrote: Nah, but what Dyrus didn't do was say that Amazing was near meteos level, and turns out, he wasn't. And he also didn't say anything about Gleeb, and turns out Gleeb wasn't a god. Now he is saying some positive stuff about Santorin, perhaps we ought to take this into consideration, or we can be complete idiots and disregard it. https://www.reddit.com/r/LOLDyrus/comments/2p33wo/san_jose_iem_dyrus_ama/cmswvrw + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ulj6B8q.jpg) Not here to discount TSM,but if you're using Dyrus' arguments to say that Santorin is near Meteos level, then you also have to consider that he said C9 will always be first. | ||
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Project Yasuo
United States153 Posts
On January 14 2015 19:15 Kyo Yuy wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/LOLDyrus/comments/2p33wo/san_jose_iem_dyrus_ama/cmswvrw + Show Spoiler + Not here to discount TSM,but if you're using Dyrus' arguments to say that Santorin is near Meteos level, then you also have to consider that he said C9 will always be first. Bam, there it is. I guess we can end this argument now. Nice catch there. On the topic of the top three teams, who do you guys see coming ahead among TL, TiP, and WFX and why? Let's get another good discussion going. | ||
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Citeen
United Kingdom6 Posts
On January 12 2015 11:37 Shatterfront wrote: Over a 9-week split, I expect Coast to destroy Team 8. Cris is the only player in that match up that's worse than his opponent. Saint brings leadership and shotcalling to Gravity. Team 8's roster just looks weak everywhere on paper, hence why they're being ranked last all over the place. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong. Is it actually weak on paper? Or is it just challenger scene people with names you don't recognise? Because I'm honestly betting it's the latter. | ||
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Kavas
Australia3421 Posts
On January 15 2015 00:17 Project Yasuo wrote: Bam, there it is. I guess we can end this argument now. Nice catch there. On the topic of the top three teams, who do you guys see coming ahead among TL, TiP, and WFX and why? Let's get another good discussion going. Don't see how that contradicts any of our discussion here. C9 on top can mean they'll be the team to beat and top 2 will be TSM against C9 again. In fact I don't think anyone placed C9 lower than 2nd here. To answer your question though, TL looks most promising to me with the addition of Piglet. Impact is good but I've never seen a SKT game where I go "Wow, Impact really played well and carried the team." Whereas Piglet has occasionally played stunningly awesome even when SKT lost. The issue is his tilt and his ability to play consistently. Admittedly I don't know enough about TiP botlane but I highly doubt they're better than Piglet/Xpecial. I don't buy into WFX hype and POB getting high challenger in Korea means little when even Hai get into challenger Korea. I still put CLG as no.3 though. CLG vs TSM rivalry too nostalgic. | ||
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v3lv3t
United States48 Posts
After several iterations, here is how I see things going: Wins: 14.2 C9 14.0 LIQ 11.7 TSM 9.3 IMP 8.3 WTF 7.8 CST 6.9 GRV 6.9 CLG 6.3 DIG 4.7 T8 | ||
Ruran
United States151 Posts
On January 15 2015 00:17 Project Yasuo wrote: Bam, there it is. I guess we can end this argument now. Nice catch there. On the topic of the top three teams, who do you guys see coming ahead among TL, TiP, and WFX and why? Let's get another good discussion going. I can really see it going any way. I think TL is one with the least amount of unknowns. For the most part we know where Quas, Xpecial and Dom stand and how good they are. Fenix is a unknown quantity and we don't know if Piglet is back in his prime. Fenix has been rumored to be insanely good, and Piglet has the ability to be a world class ADC where Cop could never be. On paper their roster changes are good, and if Curse from the end of the split shows up I see TL being the team out of these 3 that ranks highest. They almost went to Worlds with a (potentially) weaker ADC and Mid. TiP is an entire new team beyond Xiao, so we know at least they have a strong mid. Apollo/Wiz always seemed like a really weak ADC on Coast, but they keep swearing that he's going to impress. Impact is like Piglet in that if he's back in good form then he will be great, and Rush is a hyped soloqueue star. If he can translate that ability into teamplay then he might be one of the best junglers in NA. I don't know much about their support. TIP I think definitely has the potential to be a very, very strong team but it will depend on the team coming together and living up to their 'potential'. They certainly seem to have the talent there. I also worry about their team communication due to language barriers. WFX is the hardest one to guess imo. Altec is known to be very good, Pobelter has been looking amazing lately (but he always has in solo queue) and Helios is a good jungler. Rumors are their top laner is very weak, though, and is struggling even in Diamond I rank. I feel like the management is smarter than people think and wouldn't just grab him because he's related to Helios, but if that's actually the case that's a huge problem. I don't know much about their support but I personally think Altec is an up and coming powerhouse in NA so if their support is good I can see their bot lane being one of the best. We also don't know their situation in regards to strategy because wasn't Krepo a big shotcaller in their team? Their team looks solid on paper, but I think it will come down to how their top lane preforms and if Pobelter can live up to the hype and finally be the superstar people expect him to be. On January 15 2015 00:46 Kavas wrote: I don't buy into WFX hype and POB getting high challenger in Korea means little when even Hai get into challenger Korea. I still put CLG as no.3 though. CLG vs TSM rivalry too nostalgic. I don't think that's fair to Hai. Look at how Bjergsen's flashy play dropped off after he took up shotcalling, it's not as easy to be a flashy player when you have to split your attention between your play and shotcalling. I think Hai has fine mechanics and understands the game very, very well (as told by his shotcalling) and is held back by being the shotcaller, he's also the playmaker on the team in a lot of cases which means if he dies it looks really bad, but it's one of the reasons C9 is so dominant. He was able to quickly climb the ladder in Korea because he could focus purely on his play rather than having to split his attention like he does in LCS matches. | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On January 15 2015 00:52 v3lv3t wrote: I've been doing this for the past week. After several iterations, here is how I see things going: Wins: 14.2 C9 14.0 LIQ 11.7 TSM 9.3 IMP 8.3 WTF 7.8 CST 6.9 GRV 6.9 CLG 6.3 DIG 4.7 T8 that abbreviation for winterfox LOL | ||
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Atrew
United States5 Posts
2. TSM - Mechanics are great, but I don't think anyone matches C9 when it comes to in-game decisions 3. TL - On level of C9 and TSM when it comes to talent, but probable communication problems will put them at 3rd. 4. TiP - Mechanics at a top level but I think the diversity of the team will bring it down in terms of communication methods 5. CST - Solid average lineup, so I put them in the middle. (Liquids Rival) do you get it, I said solid earlier :^) 6. GRV - Another average lineup, so I put them in the middle. 7. CLG - Just above being relegated, because Hotshot will probably kick half the team if they don't get above it (due to his high amount of promises). 8. WFX - The Koreans they picked up weren't really flashy. I think the bot lane will have difficulties communicating (I don't think Altec knows any korean) and pob will be inconsistent as usual despite the hype around him from the trip to Korea. 9. T8 - I honestly don't know where they will be by the end of the split, so this is a guess, but I don't think they're as bad as people think they are... 10. DIG - Showed a pitiful performance at IEM by losing a match to a turkish team, that's why they're 10th for me. But hey, even Alliance lost to a wildcard region team, so maybe I'm wrong. Extra: Fusion will be the top challenger team that automatically gets into LCS. TDK and C9 B will probably be in the relegations. TDK will win, but I think that C9B will lose in an extremely close series. | ||
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LimpingGoat
898 Posts
On January 14 2015 19:15 Kyo Yuy wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/LOLDyrus/comments/2p33wo/san_jose_iem_dyrus_ama/cmswvrw + Show Spoiler + Not here to discount TSM,but if you're using Dyrus' arguments to say that Santorin is near Meteos level, then you also have to consider that he said C9 will always be first. Except he didn't say that, he said C9 is always on top, which is true. In fact that doesn't even make sense, because TSM literally just came first in Summer Split. | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On January 15 2015 05:54 LimpingGoat wrote: Except he didn't say that, he said C9 is always on top, which is true. In fact that doesn't even make sense, because TSM literally just came first in Summer Split. Actually... he did say "C9 is first.": https://www.reddit.com/r/LOLDyrus/comments/2p33wo/san_jose_iem_dyrus_ama/cmtoo0a?context=3 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Fsfm9je.jpg) I'm not really sure if it can be any clearer than that... the guy asks "predictions for next split" and Dyrus says "C9 is first" ... | ||
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LimpingGoat
898 Posts
On January 15 2015 08:08 Kyo Yuy wrote: Actually... he did say "C9 is first.": https://www.reddit.com/r/LOLDyrus/comments/2p33wo/san_jose_iem_dyrus_ama/cmtoo0a?context=3 + Show Spoiler + When he says first... does he just mean first after TSM?  Yeah, that's his prediction. Lustboy and Reginald said TSM would be first, none of these people are prophets, C9 could easily get first place, I wouldn't be that surprised frankly, nobody should be. What is your point? Predicting how a split is going to end up is a lot more complicated than scrimming with a player and knowing if he is really good or not. | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On January 15 2015 08:18 LimpingGoat wrote: Yeah, that's his prediction. Lustboy and Reginald said TSM would be first, none of these people are prophets, C9 could easily get first place, I wouldn't be that surprised frankly, nobody should be. What is your point? Predicting how a split is going to end up is a lot more complicated than scrimming with a player and knowing if he is really good or not. It goes back to your original statement: On January 12 2015 06:18 LimpingGoat wrote: To put TSM over C9 is as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results. You also stated that Dyrus has in the past made very good assessments. And Dyrus is saying C9 will be first. My point is that you state, word for word "To put TSM over C9 is as simple as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results." However, other people in this thread, Dyrus, and now you, have said that it's not so clear, with you outright saying "C9 could easily get first place." I don't think comparing TSM and C9 is as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results. That ignores a whole multitude of other factors including the team members' own opinions as well as their most recent tournament results, which would be IEM San Jose. They are very close in skill and I can see the final result going either way. But you are making the claim that TSM over C9 is as simple as looking at LCS summer split results. And I disagree. | ||
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LimpingGoat
898 Posts
On January 15 2015 08:25 Kyo Yuy wrote: It goes back to your original statement: You also stated that Dyrus has in the past made very good assessments. And Dyrus is saying C9 will be first. My point is that you state, word for word "To put TSM over C9 is as simple as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results." However, other people in this thread, Dyrus, and now you, have said that it's not so clear, with you outright saying "C9 could easily get first place." I don't think comparing TSM and C9 is as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results. That ignores a whole multitude of other factors including the team members' own opinions as well as their most recent tournament results, which would be IEM San Jose. They are very close in skill and I can see the final result going either way. But you are making the claim that TSM over C9 is as simple as looking at LCS summer split results. And I disagree. I don't understand, is it okay to now just make up stuff? I never stated Dyrus in the past has made good assessments. Putting TSM over C9 is easy to do, just as putting C9 over TSM is also easy to do, they are both good teams and as the most recent final showed us both are contenders. I said that because if you look at the context of what I said, I was responding to someone who suggested that it was ridiculous to predict TSM to take first over C9. I think it's foolish to put much weight into IEM San Jose as an indicator for the strength of TSM, we saw them play 2 games where they got cheesed and their shot caller seemed to be on tilt. | ||
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DNeon
Australia203 Posts
On January 15 2015 00:17 Project Yasuo wrote: Bam, there it is. I guess we can end this argument now. Nice catch there. On the topic of the top three teams, who do you guys see coming ahead among TL, TiP, and WFX and why? Let's get another good discussion going. I think TL is definitely a favourite among the 3. Of all the roster changes Piglet and Xpecial have had the most time to work on their synergy and, while Fenix is an unknown, the talent around mid should be able to carry him well enough so long as he's at least Voyboy's level, or even if he's worse. I really don't have faith in TiP, I think that Apollo or Wiz or whatever he goes by can be a decent adc, I think that Impact and XWX are both consistent players, but I only really think of XWX as a carry on the team, combined with so many unknowns I just don't think they can really be justified to be put in the top 4, and definitely have a chance to get much lower. WFX is a team that I want to do well but have no idea about. On the one hand a lot of their shotcalling and strategic play was on the rise since getting Helios and having him settle in, and the map presence he was able to have greatly improved the team, but without Krepo they've lost a shotcaller, but then they've all improved so much in that last split and worked a lot on being much more consistent, but then they've got some more language barriers to overcome now which will stifle attempts to improve shotcalling. They're just a mess of mixed messages, with potential to be almost anywhere on the bracket depending on how it turns out. | ||
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imL0CUST
1 Post
TSM - Worse off than last split, but they are still #2 CLG - Banking on this team cashing in their potential TL - Could do better, depends on Fenix's performances GRV - Can outplay the teams below, and pull a couple wins on the teams above WFX - Similar to GRV, but I think they will get upset more TiP - Language barriers galore. This is the wildcard team T8 - Looks like they can pull some upsets CST - Snowball team; don't see them snowballing LCS teams DIG - Doubt Shiphtur can carry hard enough * with 18 game splits, even bottom teams can end near the top with a bit of luck This looks like an underwhelming split; hoping some new teams/ players have a good showing | ||
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IndridCold
United States385 Posts
On January 15 2015 10:25 DNeon wrote: on WFX, Krepo wasn't really a shot caller. He admits it himself on summoning insight. More of a information giver and never really a shot caller for the team. According to him they had a ton of in fighting and bad blood in that team last year. Hopefully less now, as for the language barriers, 4 of them speak korean. So as long as Altec can get comfortable in the team and flow they shouldn't be too big of a mess. Not like TiP anyway who has korean, english, and mandarin on the team.I like how this thread became 1 TSM fan vs the world... I think TL is definitely a favourite among the 3. Of all the roster changes Piglet and Xpecial have had the most time to work on their synergy and, while Fenix is an unknown, the talent around mid should be able to carry him well enough so long as he's at least Voyboy's level, or even if he's worse. I really don't have faith in TiP, I think that Apollo or Wiz or whatever he goes by can be a decent adc, I think that Impact and XWX are both consistent players, but I only really think of XWX as a carry on the team, combined with so many unknowns I just don't think they can really be justified to be put in the top 4, and definitely have a chance to get much lower. WFX is a team that I want to do well but have no idea about. On the one hand a lot of their shotcalling and strategic play was on the rise since getting Helios and having him settle in, and the map presence he was able to have greatly improved the team, but without Krepo they've lost a shotcaller, but then they've all improved so much in that last split and worked a lot on being much more consistent, but then they've got some more language barriers to overcome now which will stifle attempts to improve shotcalling. They're just a mess of mixed messages, with potential to be almost anywhere on the bracket depending on how it turns out. | ||
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DNeon
Australia203 Posts
On January 15 2015 14:27 IndridCold wrote: on WFX, Krepo wasn't really a shot caller. He admits it himself on summoning insight. More of a information giver and never really a shot caller for the team. According to him they had a ton of in fighting and bad blood in that team last year. Hopefully less now, as for the language barriers, 4 of them speak korean. So as long as Altec can get comfortable in the team and flow they shouldn't be too big of a mess. Not like TiP anyway who has korean, english, and mandarin on the team. That's fair then. I still think Krepo's wealth of experience is a massive resource that they'll miss out on, but if he wasn't shot calling then I feel better putting them in a higher position. Also I forgot Pobelter spoke korean, my bad. But the in fighting was what had me worried most. I don't know if it'll be better and who knows how well they've put themselves to task since Krepo had said that they just weren't working hard enough, but if their improvement over last split got them going they could definitely be a top contender. | ||
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XilenX
United States72 Posts
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On January 16 2015 03:31 XilenX wrote: IWD said on stream last night TL might have to use subs for the first week of LCS as piglet and fenix are having issues with their visas . Ffs he could have said something before I drafted them both in fantasy last night. | ||
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