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On January 12 2015 08:36 Itchy7x wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 08:13 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 12 2015 07:35 Itchy7x wrote:On January 12 2015 06:18 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 12 2015 02:37 Project Yasuo wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 LimpingGoat wrote:
So many people predicting TSM to drop from 1st place Summer Split 2014 to not just 2nd place but like 4th and 5th. Do we forget what people were saying about TSM last season? Cmon guys, you might hate the team and/or the management but don't set yourself up to look stupid. TSM had just gotten a new jungler who hasn't played in the LCS: he will need time to adjust to the LCS schedule. Furthermore, no one really knows just how good or bad he is. On top of that, Turtle is in a slump, regardless of how he may play in solo-q. Furthermore, Curse/Team Liquid looked very good at the end of Summer Split 2014 and I expect them to only improve. Finally, C9 is the undisputed #1 team. TSM managed win against them very narrowly, and it was considered to be an upset in every meaning of the word. To add to that, C9 had an amazing showing at worlds, nearly forcing Samsung Blue to 5 games, making it one of the few NA teams to give a Korean team a legitimate struggle. They must have only improved since then, since they don't have to worry about team synergy due to roster swaps. Each member of C9 is near the peak of his role in NA (or the West). To put TSM 1st over C9 just seems plain ridiculous. TSM got a jungler that is ranked 3 NA and Rank 20 EUW and is reportedly already considered top 3 in his position in NA just from scrims. Now you might dismiss that because oh "it's just soloq and it's just scrims" but when you see things like that frankly I think you're reaching far more to dismiss it than to think it will translate into LCS. Turtle slump isn't even real, people forget he got 2 Quadra kills in LCS Finals against C9, and had the most damage per second of western ADC's at Worlds. C9 took one game off of Samsung Blue, and TSM took one off of Samsung White. We know which one of these teams is harder to take a game off of. To put TSM over C9 is as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results. Did you watch OGN at all, or did you just hear about it during worlds? Two seasons of Hitting OGN finals and winning one of them, only SKT T1 K has reached two OGN finals and actually won both. Meanwhile White never won OGN since Spring 2013 when they were still MVP Ozone. Speaking as a White fan, Blue is far harder to take a game off because White only played from a mechanical standpoint. They would bruteforce their way into wins by playing really aggresive and making aggresive calls, this made the team horribly inconsistant during OGN, dropping games to Jin Air and similiar level teams. Whereas Blue would always win games though proper strategical play and rarely dropped games during their prime because their shotcalling was on point and they would always win though careful strategical play. White strategies could backfire really hard and they would lose games to huge snowballs because of risks they took that didn't work out. So saying White was harder to beat then Blue just because they 3:0'd Blue, then you have no clue what you are talking about, because you should never take teamkills as a measurement of who is a better team because the teams know everything about each other, meaning that the better mechanical team almost always wins. TSM has a new jungler, C9 doesn't. Rooster swaps almost always need time to work out, I'm not saying TSM is worse then C9 and vice-versa, but the chance that they are is far larger then TSM > C9. What I'm trying to say is that your point on taking a game vs White and C9 taking a game vs Blue but Blue is the worse team so TSM is better makes no sense. UOL 2-0 TSM, TSM beat White one game, White C9 only took one game off Blue, White > Blue, therefor UOL > C9 (except C9 3-0'd UOL oops). This is pretty much the point your making, you should never base your assumptions on one game. I didn't even bring up the Samsung games, I was just responding to someone else that brought up C9's performance at Worlds. If I want to show that TSM can and probably will be better than C9 all you have to do is look at LCS Summer finals. The only difference in these two teams this season is that TSM has a new jungler, and all evidence that we have thus far is suggesting that he will be a major upgrade. So you're saying that a Bo5 half a year ago is relevant for how the standing on the teams are right now, also: Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 06:18 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 12 2015 02:37 Project Yasuo wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 LimpingGoat wrote:
So many people predicting TSM to drop from 1st place Summer Split 2014 to not just 2nd place but like 4th and 5th. Do we forget what people were saying about TSM last season? Cmon guys, you might hate the team and/or the management but don't set yourself up to look stupid. TSM had just gotten a new jungler who hasn't played in the LCS: he will need time to adjust to the LCS schedule. Furthermore, no one really knows just how good or bad he is. On top of that, Turtle is in a slump, regardless of how he may play in solo-q. Furthermore, Curse/Team Liquid looked very good at the end of Summer Split 2014 and I expect them to only improve. Finally, C9 is the undisputed #1 team. TSM managed win against them very narrowly, and it was considered to be an upset in every meaning of the word. To add to that, C9 had an amazing showing at worlds, nearly forcing Samsung Blue to 5 games, making it one of the few NA teams to give a Korean team a legitimate struggle. They must have only improved since then, since they don't have to worry about team synergy due to roster swaps. Each member of C9 is near the peak of his role in NA (or the West). To put TSM 1st over C9 just seems plain ridiculous. TSM got a jungler that is ranked 3 NA and Rank 20 EUW and is reportedly already considered top 3 in his position in NA just from scrims. Now you might dismiss that because oh "it's just soloq and it's just scrims" but when you see things like that frankly I think you're reaching far more to dismiss it than to think it will translate into LCS. Turtle slump isn't even real, people forget he got 2 Quadra kills in LCS Finals against C9, and had the most damage per second of western ADC's at Worlds. C9 took one game off of Samsung Blue, and TSM took one off of Samsung White. We know which one of these teams is harder to take a game off of. To put TSM over C9 is as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results. Alrighty then.
I'm not sure if you're an idiot or just lazy, but this thread is about NA LCS, and as I literally just said, and it's a bit frustrating having to repeat myself, I didn't bring up anything to do with Worlds or the performance of TSM/C9 against the Samsung teams, I was replying to someone who did as a counterpoint to my suggestion that TSM will definitely be top 2.
And yes, a Bo5 over half a year ago is relevant, because they are practically the same teams and in the absence of any other results between the two teams it would be borderline retarded to ignore it.
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On January 12 2015 08:36 MajorityofOne wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 08:13 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 12 2015 07:35 Itchy7x wrote:On January 12 2015 06:18 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 12 2015 02:37 Project Yasuo wrote:On January 12 2015 02:13 LimpingGoat wrote:
So many people predicting TSM to drop from 1st place Summer Split 2014 to not just 2nd place but like 4th and 5th. Do we forget what people were saying about TSM last season? Cmon guys, you might hate the team and/or the management but don't set yourself up to look stupid. TSM had just gotten a new jungler who hasn't played in the LCS: he will need time to adjust to the LCS schedule. Furthermore, no one really knows just how good or bad he is. On top of that, Turtle is in a slump, regardless of how he may play in solo-q. Furthermore, Curse/Team Liquid looked very good at the end of Summer Split 2014 and I expect them to only improve. Finally, C9 is the undisputed #1 team. TSM managed win against them very narrowly, and it was considered to be an upset in every meaning of the word. To add to that, C9 had an amazing showing at worlds, nearly forcing Samsung Blue to 5 games, making it one of the few NA teams to give a Korean team a legitimate struggle. They must have only improved since then, since they don't have to worry about team synergy due to roster swaps. Each member of C9 is near the peak of his role in NA (or the West). To put TSM 1st over C9 just seems plain ridiculous. TSM got a jungler that is ranked 3 NA and Rank 20 EUW and is reportedly already considered top 3 in his position in NA just from scrims. Now you might dismiss that because oh "it's just soloq and it's just scrims" but when you see things like that frankly I think you're reaching far more to dismiss it than to think it will translate into LCS. Turtle slump isn't even real, people forget he got 2 Quadra kills in LCS Finals against C9, and had the most damage per second of western ADC's at Worlds. C9 took one game off of Samsung Blue, and TSM took one off of Samsung White. We know which one of these teams is harder to take a game off of. To put TSM over C9 is as simple as looking at the most recent LCS split results. Did you watch OGN at all, or did you just hear about it during worlds? Two seasons of Hitting OGN finals and winning one of them, only SKT T1 K has reached two OGN finals and actually won both. Meanwhile White never won OGN since Spring 2013 when they were still MVP Ozone. Speaking as a White fan, Blue is far harder to take a game off because White only played from a mechanical standpoint. They would bruteforce their way into wins by playing really aggresive and making aggresive calls, this made the team horribly inconsistant during OGN, dropping games to Jin Air and similiar level teams. Whereas Blue would always win games though proper strategical play and rarely dropped games during their prime because their shotcalling was on point and they would always win though careful strategical play. White strategies could backfire really hard and they would lose games to huge snowballs because of risks they took that didn't work out. So saying White was harder to beat then Blue just because they 3:0'd Blue, then you have no clue what you are talking about, because you should never take teamkills as a measurement of who is a better team because the teams know everything about each other, meaning that the better mechanical team almost always wins. TSM has a new jungler, C9 doesn't. Rooster swaps almost always need time to work out, I'm not saying TSM is worse then C9 and vice-versa, but the chance that they are is far larger then TSM > C9. What I'm trying to say is that your point on taking a game vs White and C9 taking a game vs Blue but Blue is the worse team so TSM is better makes no sense. UOL 2-0 TSM, TSM beat White one game, White C9 only took one game off Blue, White > Blue, therefor UOL > C9 (except C9 3-0'd UOL oops). This is pretty much the point your making, you should never base your assumptions on one game. I didn't even bring up the Samsung games, I was just responding to someone else that brought up C9's performance at Worlds. If I want to show that TSM can and probably will be better than C9 all you have to do is look at LCS Summer finals. The only difference in these two teams this season is that TSM has a new jungler, and all evidence that we have thus far is suggesting that he will be a major upgrade. This isn't true though. There's nothing to suggest he's an upgrade except rumors, all we've actually seen is a UOL 2-0. I'm not saying he might not end up being better but he's much more of a question mark than you're making him out to be, and thats why everyone feels better about picking C9. Its not like TSM was miles ahead of C9 in their last series, they won a 5 game series that wouldve gone the other way if not for WT critting Sneaky thrice in a row. Would not surprise me ONE BIT to see TSM win the spring split btw, but C9 is the safer prediction.
You can't just write off rumors like that, this thread is about speculation and since we can't simply just see into the future and what the results will be, rumors are valuable for predictions.
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On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising.
A clear downgrade LOL
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I think it will be:
C9
TL
TSM/WFX
CLG
TIP
T8
Grav
Dig
Coast
I think all the teams have the potential to do well, I'm excited about the LCS this season. I think the only things that are a definite are C9 and TSM being near the top.
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On January 12 2015 02:22 Citeen wrote:
MFW people are putting Team 8 last when they have winning records against both Gravity and Coast throughout challenger scene...
I also think it's silly to use the fact that they just barely beat Complexity to get into NA LCS as justification. UoL barely beat MIL to get into EU LCS. Also, from having watched many of their scrims last split they're really not as bad as everyone says.
I'm skeptical about Gravity's success with Saint though. He's a cool guy and I really love him in the scene, but I don't think he can compete as a jungler anymore unless he's on J4 or something.
Over a 9-week split, I expect Coast to destroy Team 8. Cris is the only player in that match up that's worse than his opponent. Saint brings leadership and shotcalling to Gravity. Team 8's roster just looks weak everywhere on paper, hence why they're being ranked last all over the place. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong.
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I think Team8 is being underestimated. They were the top seed going into the promotion tournament. They were favorites to get in last split but had the misfortunate of running into LMQ. There's been roster changes since T8 played Coast and Gravity, but I think they still aren't as weak as people think.
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I really don't like TSM, but even I have to suspect that TSM will place first in the spring split. The team has been saying in interviews that they have an 80% win rate in scrims against other teams INCLUDING C9. It's an extremely close call though, and to say that TSM is OBVIOUSLY THE BETTER TEAM is a very bold statement. Yes TSM took one game off White, but they also lost a game to SK Gaming when SK got Svenskeren, and SK was arguably a weaker team than Alliance at World's. TSM is a very strong team and I would definitely place them top 2, but there are simply too many factors to put them in definitive first.
Also as people mentioned the team kill of White vs Blue, I think that TSM scrims with C9 more than any other team (just a hunch), and I think that gives TSM an advantage because of Bjergsen's mechanical superiority. C9's strategic play does very well on an international level, but I think TSM has played C9 enough that they know how to "react" to it, so to speak.
Knowing Regi's lack of hesitation in replacing underperforming players, either Santorin will keep TSM in top 2 by playoffs or he will be replaced mid season. That said, my heart goes to C9 because I love Hai, my head says Regi and Locodoco will do everything they can to make sure TSM finishes first and succeed.
It's too hard for me to predict all 10, so I'll just go with top 5:
1) TSM - For reasons stated above
2) C9 - Also see above
3) TIP - Dark horse that could go either way. It's hard to ignore a team with the rank 1 Korean player, a former world champion (albeit slumping), and Xiaoweixiao. This team could easily place 3rd or 7th but I'm going to predict the former.
4) TL - Honestly I can see TL being anywhere in the top 4, and if my prediction about TIP is wrong then TL will probably be 3rd. This has nothing to do with the Curse inside joke don't hate pls 
5) Winterfox - EG finished summer on an incredibly high note, going 4/4 in the final superweek. I think Helios has the potential to be the best jungler in NA on a good day and with the roster chances I can see this team doing super well.
To be quite honest though, I have little to no confidence in my spring split predictions. Far too many roster changes.
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On January 12 2015 11:44 Ruran wrote:
I think Team8 is being underestimated. They were the top seed going into the promotion tournament. They were favorites to get in last split but had the misfortunate of running into LMQ. There's been roster changes since T8 played Coast and Gravity, but I think they still aren't as weak as people think.
I think at best they could potentially be 5th, ahead of Dignitas, Winterfox, Coast and Gravity. I don't really see them beating the former two as bad as Dignitas's is looking. I think the bottom 5 is pretty clearly the four teams I mentioned and T8, unless TiP goes to shit.
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Did somebody say TSM? They're tough to predict. You could look at IEM and say their play has something to be desired. Or look at how the team became much weaker by adding Gleeb and much stronger by taking him out. At the moment it's just a safe bet to place them second considering both TSM and Cloud 9's history.
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On January 12 2015 11:58 Sonnington wrote:
Did somebody say TSM? They're tough to predict. You could look at IEM and say their play has something to be desired. Or look at how the team became much weaker by adding Gleeb and much stronger by taking him out. At the moment it's just a safe bet to place them second considering both TSM and Cloud 9's history.
I hesitate to rank anything going by IEM. It's completely possible they just didn't show up that day, or they tilted hard after things didn't go their way. I don't think Regi will allow TSM to be a lower ranked team, he will pour money into the team and do whatever it takes for them to be top tier. I have to wonder if Bjerg will end up like Regi though in that if he gets behind his shotcalling will fall apart. His play has seemed weaker since taking over shotcalling (naturally as he has to split his focus) but he seemed really off at IEM and in old TSM days when Regi looked weak TSM looked weak.
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On January 12 2015 12:02 Ruran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 11:58 Sonnington wrote:
Did somebody say TSM? They're tough to predict. You could look at IEM and say their play has something to be desired. Or look at how the team became much weaker by adding Gleeb and much stronger by taking him out. At the moment it's just a safe bet to place them second considering both TSM and Cloud 9's history. I hesitate to rank anything going by IEM. It's completely possible they just didn't show up that day, or they tilted hard after things didn't go their way. I don't think Regi will allow TSM to be a lower ranked team, he will pour money into the team and do whatever it takes for them to be top tier. I have to wonder if Bjerg will end up like Regi though in that if he gets behind his shotcalling will fall apart. His play has seemed weaker since taking over shotcalling (naturally as he has to split his focus) but he seemed really off at IEM and in old TSM days when Regi looked weak TSM looked weak.
Agreed. Say what you want about Reginald, but he has never allowed TSM to drop below top 2 teams in NA for longer than a couple weeks at a time (if you go by LCS rankings), for the past 3 years. That's fucking nuts. C9 might be better, but Reginald will make positive changes no matter what. Other teams would've kept Gleeb around for the rest of Summer despite his lackluster play. Regi will do the best moves for TSM, he's consistently proved that.
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On January 12 2015 12:11 Shatterfront wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 12:02 Ruran wrote:On January 12 2015 11:58 Sonnington wrote:
Did somebody say TSM? They're tough to predict. You could look at IEM and say their play has something to be desired. Or look at how the team became much weaker by adding Gleeb and much stronger by taking him out. At the moment it's just a safe bet to place them second considering both TSM and Cloud 9's history. I hesitate to rank anything going by IEM. It's completely possible they just didn't show up that day, or they tilted hard after things didn't go their way. I don't think Regi will allow TSM to be a lower ranked team, he will pour money into the team and do whatever it takes for them to be top tier. I have to wonder if Bjerg will end up like Regi though in that if he gets behind his shotcalling will fall apart. His play has seemed weaker since taking over shotcalling (naturally as he has to split his focus) but he seemed really off at IEM and in old TSM days when Regi looked weak TSM looked weak. Agreed. Say what you want about Reginald, but he has never allowed TSM to drop below top 2 teams in NA for longer than a couple weeks at a time (if you go by LCS rankings), for the past 3 years. That's fucking nuts. C9 might be better, but Reginald will make positive changes no matter what. Other teams would've kept Gleeb around for the rest of Summer despite his lackluster play. Regi will do the best moves for TSM, he's consistently proved that.
Honestly, yeah. People may rag on Reginald, but he's easily up there in professional ability. The guy's a goddamn genius.
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1)TSM TSM TSM
2)C9
3)Liquid
4)WFX
5)GRV
6)TiP
7)Dig
8)CST
9)T8
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On January 12 2015 10:54 LimpingGoat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising. A clear downgrade LOL
I watched the challenger series man. He's a good challenger jungler and the right pick when forced to pick from existing talent in NA, but he's no fucking Dandy man, we have no proof to back up talks of his skill and have an IEM series that might not be an accurate representation of how he will be, but does give us evidence that his transition to TSM isn't all sunshine and roses.
Take the rose tinted glasses off man.
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On January 13 2015 15:48 DNeon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 10:54 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising. A clear downgrade LOL I watched the challenger series man. He's a good challenger jungler and the right pick when forced to pick from existing talent in NA, but he's no fucking Dandy man, we have no proof to back up talks of his skill and have an IEM series that might not be an accurate representation of how he will be, but does give us evidence that his transition to TSM isn't all sunshine and roses. Take the rose tinted glasses off man.
Who cares if we have proof, we're already speculating about his skill, and when rumors are already that he is "near Meteos" level you're stupid to dismiss them.
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On January 13 2015 21:38 LimpingGoat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 15:48 DNeon wrote:On January 12 2015 10:54 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising. A clear downgrade LOL I watched the challenger series man. He's a good challenger jungler and the right pick when forced to pick from existing talent in NA, but he's no fucking Dandy man, we have no proof to back up talks of his skill and have an IEM series that might not be an accurate representation of how he will be, but does give us evidence that his transition to TSM isn't all sunshine and roses. Take the rose tinted glasses off man. Who cares if we have proof, we're already speculating about his skill, and when rumors are already that he is "near Meteos" level you're stupid to dismiss them.
If you go on YouTube, you will also see rumors that Bjergsen is better than Faker.
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On January 13 2015 21:58 Project Yasuo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 21:38 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 13 2015 15:48 DNeon wrote:On January 12 2015 10:54 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising. A clear downgrade LOL I watched the challenger series man. He's a good challenger jungler and the right pick when forced to pick from existing talent in NA, but he's no fucking Dandy man, we have no proof to back up talks of his skill and have an IEM series that might not be an accurate representation of how he will be, but does give us evidence that his transition to TSM isn't all sunshine and roses. Take the rose tinted glasses off man. Who cares if we have proof, we're already speculating about his skill, and when rumors are already that he is "near Meteos" level you're stupid to dismiss them. If you go on YouTube, you will also see rumors that Bjergsen is better than Faker.
Rumors about Santorin don't come from Youtube, they come from people who have played with and against him in scrims and have LCS level knowledge about the game. When did we stop respecting Pro player's opinions?
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On January 13 2015 21:38 LimpingGoat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 15:48 DNeon wrote:On January 12 2015 10:54 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising. A clear downgrade LOL I watched the challenger series man. He's a good challenger jungler and the right pick when forced to pick from existing talent in NA, but he's no fucking Dandy man, we have no proof to back up talks of his skill and have an IEM series that might not be an accurate representation of how he will be, but does give us evidence that his transition to TSM isn't all sunshine and roses. Take the rose tinted glasses off man. Who cares if we have proof, we're already speculating about his skill, and when rumors are already that he is "near Meteos" level you're stupid to dismiss them.
I would love to know where you heard that rumors. In EU no one even consider him LCS level jungler. He's just typical challenger jungler with decent mechanics thats all.
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On January 13 2015 22:23 LimpingGoat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 21:58 Project Yasuo wrote:On January 13 2015 21:38 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 13 2015 15:48 DNeon wrote:On January 12 2015 10:54 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising. A clear downgrade LOL I watched the challenger series man. He's a good challenger jungler and the right pick when forced to pick from existing talent in NA, but he's no fucking Dandy man, we have no proof to back up talks of his skill and have an IEM series that might not be an accurate representation of how he will be, but does give us evidence that his transition to TSM isn't all sunshine and roses. Take the rose tinted glasses off man. Who cares if we have proof, we're already speculating about his skill, and when rumors are already that he is "near Meteos" level you're stupid to dismiss them. If you go on YouTube, you will also see rumors that Bjergsen is better than Faker. Rumors about Santorin don't come from Youtube, they come from people who have played with and against him in scrims and have LCS level knowledge about the game. When did we stop respecting Pro player's opinions?
OK, then could you link me to said statements by pro players?
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On January 13 2015 22:25 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 21:38 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 13 2015 15:48 DNeon wrote:On January 12 2015 10:54 LimpingGoat wrote:On January 10 2015 09:43 DNeon wrote:On January 10 2015 04:56 JonGalt wrote:
What the fuck, not one person putting TSM on top! After their performance at IEM and with a clear downgrade in their already weakest position of jungle, a more important role in season 5, I don't find this surprising. A clear downgrade LOL I watched the challenger series man. He's a good challenger jungler and the right pick when forced to pick from existing talent in NA, but he's no fucking Dandy man, we have no proof to back up talks of his skill and have an IEM series that might not be an accurate representation of how he will be, but does give us evidence that his transition to TSM isn't all sunshine and roses. Take the rose tinted glasses off man. Who cares if we have proof, we're already speculating about his skill, and when rumors are already that he is "near Meteos" level you're stupid to dismiss them. I would love to know where you heard that rumors. In EU no one even consider him LCS level jungler. He's just typical challenger jungler with decent mechanics thats all.
Crumbz on Season 5: "The junglers we’ll see shine are Santorin and Meteos. I think Curse IWD will really surprise everyone."
Dyrus on Santorin
Q: "Santorin, how good?" A: "great attitude positive mindset, does what he's told and doesn't tilt. got rank 3 in NA so his mechanics are perfectly fine too."
Q: "How do you think Santorin compares to other junglers from scrims? A: "santorin is close to the same level as meteos"
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EPT
