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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
In regards to entries for Worlds, each region is awarded the following:
The playoffs will be held at USC's Galen Center (site of last year's World Finals). The finals themselves will be held at Staples Center. Dates and times for the events are still TBA. | ||
JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:37 JBright wrote: Please fly me to LA for the finals Neo. Best I can offer is maybe a ticket. :O | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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Ethelis
United States2396 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
A 16 team tournament is easier to create a format for AND would give an additional slot to KR/CN. 16 teams, groupstage with 4 groups of 4, put the top qualifier from NA/KR/CN/SEA in separate groups, then either top 2 advance to single elim Ro8 OR put top 2 in WB, bottom 2 in LB for double elim bracket. Took me less than 2 minutes to create a more sensible tournament format. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:44 xMiragex wrote: Should edit OP to Korea - 2 entries + 1 entry from all-stars just cause. I mean the regulars (and regular lurkers :D) know but you never know... Should just edit 6 Western, 6 Eastern, 1 Allstar, 1 Wildcard so that people don't make big fuss about how NA and EU have more entries than KR, CN, SEA. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:50 canikizu wrote: Should just edit 6 Western, 6 Eastern, 1 Allstar, 1 Wildcard so that people don't make big fuss about how NA and EU have more entries, than KR, CN, SEA. Were that the case then it should be 2 NA, 2 EUW, 2 CIS/EUNE (to mirror 2 CN, 2 KR, 2 SEA), not 3 NA, 3 EU. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:48 TheYango wrote: Continuing on the discussion about # of slots, the biggest quip I have isn't necessarily that Korea and CN have less slots, but that in order to give them less slots, Riot deliberately chose a less sensible number of teams to have in the tournament. WTF is a 14 team tournament? A 16 team tournament is easier to create a format for AND would give an additional slot to KR/CN. 16 teams, groupstage with 4 groups of 4, put the top qualifier from NA/KR/CN/SEA in separate groups, then either top 2 advance to single elim Ro8 OR put top 2 in WB, bottom 2 in LB for double elim bracket. Took me less than 2 minutes to create a more sensible tournament format. 4 Teams gets a bye right? the 2 group of 5 makes group stages too punishing imo; I agree with tourney format being really wonky. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:48 TheYango wrote: Continuing on the discussion about # of slots, the biggest quip I have isn't necessarily that Korea and CN have less slots, but that in order to give them less slots, Riot deliberately chose a less sensible number of teams to have in the tournament. WTF is a 14 team tournament? A 16 team tournament is easier to create a format for AND would give an additional slot to KR/CN. 16 teams, groupstage with 4 groups of 4, put the top qualifier from NA/KR/CN/SEA in separate groups, then either top 2 advance to single elim Ro8 OR put top 2 in WB, bottom 2 in LB for double elim bracket. Took me less than 2 minutes to create a more sensible tournament format. Sense being made, I'll ask Riot about this. hue | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:40 canikizu wrote: Can't wait to see new figure stick spotlight. This is also what I am looking forward to the most >.< | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:52 TheYango wrote: Were that the case then it should be 2 NA, 2 EUW, 2 CIS/EUNE (to mirror 2 CN, 2 KR, 2 SEA), not 3 NA, 3 EU. It would make sense if EUW and CIS have 2 different LCS.... oh they don't. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
1) My response to onlywonderboy's post: The essence of my premise is still somewhat valid, I feel. Are you watching a global competition for the chance to see the best from the world (well, you can see in week-in-week-out during Champions League these days, but in the past, the World Cup was the only chance to see the best players from all over the world), or are you just in it to see how far your home team can make it? Whenever I see watch the World Cup, there's a clear divide between the fans, those that tune in for the joy of supporting Korea for a big occasion such as the World Cup, and those who watch it for what it is. The numbers will obviously be overwhelmingly in favour of those casual fans who watch to beat their drum, but we need to be very cautious to how much we cater towards those fans before the competition becomes more of a show. Sorry to be so pessemistic, but I can't seem to criticize Riot in a orderly manner. I feel like there needs to be the illusion that what we're seeing is legitimate, even if it is not. So what's fair? For one thing, I feel how Riot has dealt with the spot allocations for Taiwan is unfair. I don't think how the tournament has been structured is fair, and is way too bracket dependent for the only competition that has all regions participating in it. Even the regional qualifications is structured better than the main tournament itself in some cases, which is just ridiculous. The storyline, the hype, and the views for the actual tournament is going to be great regardless of what Riot does because of the paucity in cross-regional competitions. However, Riot is focusing too much on things being a good show, rather trying to ghost a legitimate global competition. Seriously, can you tell me with a straight face that the brackets, the seedings, and the qualifications are of the same calibre (in terms of competitive integrity, not production value) as some of the regional competitions? 2) My response to thenexusp's post: It's a multitude of things, and they have irked me for a while, as my post history probably shows. It's going to take forever to explain if my recent series of posts does not make any sense to you. 3) My response to jpak's post: Don't get me wrong, I'll still be watching every single moment I can watch of the Season 3 World Championship, but I feel there's a lot of issues that needs to be touched upon. 4) My response to NeoIllusions: I was always empathetic towards the Taiwanese region in my posts, even back when I was bitching about "competitive integrity" way back when the decisions for All Stars Championship. People seem to not catch on that vibe, especially with my usual biases being towards Korea, naturally. Korea has benefited immensely due to the general interest from the English speaking world, and the success the team had in All Stars Championship. However, the Taiwanese region has been screwed over by Riot, and that is the injustice, that I feel is upsetting me the most. Taiwanese teams have never gotten a chance. The sole representative of their region, Taipei Assassins could not have performed any better in Season 2 World Championship. Surely that must count for more than some random event in China? 5) My response to Dan HH: I'm not sure whether restructuring the tournament to be double-elimination would solve everything, but surely it cannot be denied that the way the brackets are structured makes way for really random results? I think even some of the smaller scale competitions held in various regions are designed better than Season 3 World Championship. And that is a disgrace when you consider the paucity in cross-regional competitions. | ||
SHr3DD3r
Pakistan2137 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 12 2013 05:06 SHr3DD3r wrote: Another classic Riot blunder with regard to the format. The spot distribution is stupid as well. Last year it was understandable to some degree. But again? You rather have arbitrary spot allocation based on how Riot feels about which region is better? lol; seriously people. You want them to hold qualifiers for these spots? Oh wait; that'd end up being the tournament. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:57 canikizu wrote: It would make sense if EUW and CIS have 2 different LCS.... oh they don't. If we're doing it per LCS tournament then why do the Western LCS's get 1 more spot each than the Eastern ones? If we're doing it per region then why doesn't EUNE count as a different region when they have distinct teams/a different server? Either way, Riot's team split is inconsistent. And from all perspectives, NA is the region that benefited the most from this inconsistent logic. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
Maybe next year Riot will change the format. I don't think there'd be anything wrong with doubling the size of the tournament next year if League keeps growing. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On July 12 2013 05:09 wei2coolman wrote: You rather have arbitrary spot allocation based on how Riot feels about which region is better? lol; seriously people. You want them to hold qualifiers for these spots? Oh wait; that'd end up being the tournament. It is already arbitrary. Plus, we should place Riot's decision on a higher plane of judgement, since they are directly influencing the only major cross-regional compeititon. How can anybody tell me with a straight face that Riot's decisions coming into this tournament was impeccable? Shouldn't we discuss these things in detail so that it doesn't happen again next time round? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 12 2013 05:14 Letmelose wrote: It is already arbitrary. Plus, we should place Riot's decision on a higher plane of judgement, since they are directly influencing the only major cross-regional compeititon. How can anybody tell me with a straight face that Riot's decisions coming into this tournament was impeccable? Shouldn't we discuss these things in detail so that it doesn't happen again next time round? It's not arbitrary; its based on market representation | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
You guys forget that ESPORTS, from OGN back in the day to Season 3 today, is primarily an ENTERTAINMENT industry, not some competitive organization like the Olympics. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2013 05:18 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: In the end, it's business. That's all there is to it. You guys forget that ESPORTS, from OGN back in the day to Season 3 today, is primarily an ENTERTAINMENT industry, not some competitive organization like the Olympics. I don't see the business sense in a format that favors NA/EUW though. CIS and CN are the place where LoL is least entrenched and has the most competition. Those are the areas where Riot stands to gain the most in currying favor. Let's also keep in mind that CN and CIS are probably where the viewership is most fickle. If GG or WE managed to not qualify for Worlds (unlikely for GG but a very real possibility for WE), you'd probably see a bigger viewership hit than for any other individual team to not make it into the tournament. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On July 12 2013 05:18 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: In the end, it's business. That's all there is to it. You guys forget that ESPORTS, from OGN back in the day to Season 3 today, is primarily an ENTERTAINMENT industry, not some competitive organization like the Olympics. The Olympics is also an entertainment industry, which is why there is always a great deal of discussion when it comes to getting players from professional leagues in popular sports like hockey and basketball. The Olympics try to sell it as "Playing for your country" when in reality they're raking in the dollars while these guys get paid peanuts compared to their wages as a professional. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On July 12 2013 05:18 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: In the end, it's business. That's all there is to it. You guys forget that ESPORTS, from OGN back in the day to Season 3 today, is primarily an ENTERTAINMENT industry, not some competitive organization like the Olympics. I hated it when Ongament fluctuated the participant numbers for the StarLeague based on whether Boxer qualified or not. I hated it when MBCGame fixed the maps just in favour of certain players just to achieve higher ratings when Warcraft 3 was having trouble taking off. I hate it now that Season 3 World Championship is ignoring Taipei Assassins' good showings in the previous season, and then forced them to play with players from the South East Asian regions in the All Stars Championship. It shouldn't be all about the viewership, even if it is business. There needs to be an illusion that what we're seeing is legitimate, and I'm not being tricked in the slightest. All of us can see that the only world-wide tournament is being milked mainly for marketability reasons, and it bothers me how many people seem to be fine with that. Shouldn't we strive for the professional gaming scene to be even more respectable than the Olympics? Why are we defining ourselves to be an entertainment industry? Who is going to respect the competitive integrity of the professional gaming scene if even the most loyal fans are okay with everything being a sham? | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
A flying ticket that is hue hue hue. | ||
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:48 TheYango wrote: Continuing on the discussion about # of slots, the biggest quip I have isn't necessarily that Korea and CN have less slots, but that in order to give them less slots, Riot deliberately chose a less sensible number of teams to have in the tournament. WTF is a 14 team tournament? A 16 team tournament is easier to create a format for AND would give an additional slot to KR/CN. 16 teams, groupstage with 4 groups of 4, put the top qualifier from NA/KR/CN/SEA in separate groups, then either top 2 advance to single elim Ro8 OR put top 2 in WB, bottom 2 in LB for double elim bracket. Took me less than 2 minutes to create a more sensible tournament format. Going off of this, even if they still wanted to give the #1 team from KR/CN/NA/SEA a bye to the quarterfinal, they could still split the remaining 12 teams in several ways two groups of 6, top 2 from each group advances four groups of 3, top 1 from each group advances two groups of 6, top 4 from each group advances; these 8 teams play each other in a bo3 in a pre-quarterfinal (1st vs 4th, 2nd vs 3rd), and 4 teams advances from that to face the 4 seeds in the real quarterfinal yeah 16 teams would've been much better, hope everything isn't set in stone and that this can still happen | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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Fionn
United States23455 Posts
Also, I guessed Staples Center a few months back as the finals place. As an LA resident, it should be awesome. 18,000 fans would be a really awesome sight. It is kinda silly that Europe will have three teams, but due to their failure at ASG, they will all be in the group stages. Really feel like China with WE/iG/OMG could have needed that third spot. Hopefully, they give Korea three spots next year if it is being held in Korea. Should be a bonus for host region. | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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nojitosunrise
United States6188 Posts
On July 12 2013 08:59 RagequitBM wrote: Is there a date yet? I'm not sure if I'll be in school again by the time this starts, so I can't buy tickets yet. Oct 4th is the finals. | ||
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abcb
United States136 Posts
As you know, Riot was bought out by Tencent for 400+ mill, Tencent is a chinese MAINLAND corporation that have many dealing with the PRC government (virtually all of Tencent operations/company require PRC government regulatory approval). For example, twitter is banned in china, but Tencent's own version of twitter/fb is allowed because they follow government's censorship requirements and gotten approval for it. Taiwan is a very sensitive touchy subject in mainland china. Chinese people are generally pretty upset about claims to regions that they believe that's theirs, and they will backlash against nations that also claims that land. For example, the giant backlash against japanese car makers because Japan and China was fighting over an island in the eastern china sea. It is very possible that Tencent/Riot purposely lower taiwan's entry/standing publically to show that they value Mainland China > taiwan so that there won't be any potential backlash against them. On July 12 2013 05:05 Letmelose wrote: I will reply stuff from the general discussions thread here. 1) My response to onlywonderboy's post: The essence of my premise is still somewhat valid, I feel. Are you watching a global competition for the chance to see the best from the world (well, you can see in week-in-week-out during Champions League these days, but in the past, the World Cup was the only chance to see the best players from all over the world), or are you just in it to see how far your home team can make it? Whenever I see watch the World Cup, there's a clear divide between the fans, those that tune in for the joy of supporting Korea for a big occasion such as the World Cup, and those who watch it for what it is. The numbers will obviously be overwhelmingly in favour of those casual fans who watch to beat their drum, but we need to be very cautious to how much we cater towards those fans before the competition becomes more of a show. Sorry to be so pessemistic, but I can't seem to criticize Riot in a orderly manner. I feel like there needs to be the illusion that what we're seeing is legitimate, even if it is not. So what's fair? For one thing, I feel how Riot has dealt with the spot allocations for Taiwan is unfair. I don't think how the tournament has been structured is fair, and is way too bracket dependent for the only competition that has all regions participating in it. Even the regional qualifications is structured better than the main tournament itself in some cases, which is just ridiculous. The storyline, the hype, and the views for the actual tournament is going to be great regardless of what Riot does because of the paucity in cross-regional competitions. However, Riot is focusing too much on things being a good show, rather trying to ghost a legitimate global competition. Seriously, can you tell me with a straight face that the brackets, the seedings, and the qualifications are of the same calibre (in terms of competitive integrity, not production value) as some of the regional competitions? 2) My response to thenexusp's post: It's a multitude of things, and they have irked me for a while, as my post history probably shows. It's going to take forever to explain if my recent series of posts does not make any sense to you. 3) My response to jpak's post: Don't get me wrong, I'll still be watching every single moment I can watch of the Season 3 World Championship, but I feel there's a lot of issues that needs to be touched upon. 4) My response to NeoIllusions: I was always empathetic towards the Taiwanese region in my posts, even back when I was bitching about "competitive integrity" way back when the decisions for All Stars Championship. People seem to not catch on that vibe, especially with my usual biases being towards Korea, naturally. Korea has benefited immensely due to the general interest from the English speaking world, and the success the team had in All Stars Championship. However, the Taiwanese region has been screwed over by Riot, and that is the injustice, that I feel is upsetting me the most. Taiwanese teams have never gotten a chance. The sole representative of their region, Taipei Assassins could not have performed any better in Season 2 World Championship. Surely that must count for more than some random event in China? 5) My response to Dan HH: I'm not sure whether restructuring the tournament to be double-elimination would solve everything, but surely it cannot be denied that the way the brackets are structured makes way for really random results? I think even some of the smaller scale competitions held in various regions are designed better than Season 3 World Championship. And that is a disgrace when you consider the paucity in cross-regional competitions. | ||
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abcb
United States136 Posts
The same thing happens in NBA too, I mean lakers sellout for a reason, the clippers... not so much, people pay what they want to see, and owners/associations recognizes that and actively try to sign free agent that can 1) win (attract more viewership) or 2) have very strong following so more people will buy season ticket or watch it on tv. Take Jermey Lin for example, he is a GOOD player, but he ain't no Kobe/Jordan/Labron. His current contract is 3 years for 25 mill. Is he worth that much purely on his skill alone? Many would say no way, but business wise, it makes complete sense. He has a huge asian following in the US, huge following in ASIA, huge market for his merchandise. Houston will probably make back way more than they signed him for on tv broadcast rights and merchandise alone. Is NBA less legitimate because players are sometime signed for financial reasons vs talent? Another good example of unfairness in professional sports is baseball payroll. Is baseball less legitimate as a sport because yankee are allowed to spend 10x on payroll vs. the Astros? Is baseball less respected as a sport because of the payroll gap? On July 12 2013 05:31 Letmelose wrote: I hated it when Ongament fluctuated the participant numbers for the StarLeague based on whether Boxer qualified or not. I hated it when MBCGame fixed the maps just in favour of certain players just to achieve higher ratings when Warcraft 3 was having trouble taking off. I hate it now that Season 3 World Championship is ignoring Taipei Assassins' good showings in the previous season, and then forced them to play with players from the South East Asian regions in the All Stars Championship. It shouldn't be all about the viewership, even if it is business. There needs to be an illusion that what we're seeing is legitimate, and I'm not being tricked in the slightest. All of us can see that the only world-wide tournament is being milked mainly for marketability reasons, and it bothers me how many people seem to be fine with that. Shouldn't we strive for the professional gaming scene to be even more respectable than the Olympics? Why are we defining ourselves to be an entertainment industry? Who is going to respect the competitive integrity of the professional gaming scene if even the most loyal fans are okay with everything being a sham? | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 12 2013 10:00 abcb wrote: Another good example of unfairness in professional sports is baseball payroll. Is baseball less legitimate as a sport because yankee are allowed to spend 10x on payroll vs. the Astros? Is baseball less respected as a sport because of the payroll gap? That analogy doesn't really apply here. Discrepancies in the expenditure of sporting clubs don't de-legitimize a sport, but they do often make matches less entertaining. Many major sporting leagues have strictly regulated salary caps that attempt to keep competition even and exciting. Really that's the biggest problem with such a EU/NA heavy competition. The quality of games will be lower, making the spectacle less entertaining. Not to mention a 14 team tournament is terrible. The format will need to be complicated and difficult for the viewer to follow. That's the last thing a tournament needs. Anyone who follows cricket will know what a disaster some of their world cup formats have been. 16 teams, 4 groups of 4, Quarters, Semis, Final. Simple. You also get two extra extremely high quality teams added for viewing, improving the overall experience. Seems a no brainer to me. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
On July 12 2013 10:09 BlueBird. wrote: I hope I can get 2 tickets, I missed out on tickets for the dota championships .Most of it going on at a college arena, then the finals at the fucking home of the Lakers. Unreal amount of tickets. Should be pretty easy. | ||
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WilDMousE
Chile1335 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
 I wouldn't even care about this if there were more cross-regional tournaments but there aren't. Too bad logistics hampers the creation of an pan-Asian LoL tournament because what I really want to see are the best Chinese and Korean teams going at it. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
Cons of 16 man: +1 KR, +1 CN?! (How to rig the brackets so some West team makes it.) | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On July 12 2013 12:22 Slow Motion wrote: Aren't PE and OMG more likely to make Worlds for China than WE or IG? It's kinda funny that WE and IG won't be at Worlds when you look at the NA and EU teams that will be there I wouldn't even care about this if there were more cross-regional tournaments but there aren't. Too bad logistics hampers the creation of an pan-Asian LoL tournament because what I really want to see are the best Chinese and Korean teams going at it. I think WE or iG are more likely to go to worlds than PE personally. OMG should definitely go though. It's still too early to tell, all four teams are strong. Part of me secretly hopes to see Wh1t3z and Tabe return to western audiences even if Royal Club's shots are pretty slim. | ||
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abcb
United States136 Posts
I do have to say though, EU + NA = 6, China + Korea + Southeast asia = 7. How is this event EU/NA heavy? If you want a format of 16 teams such as EU/NA/China/Korea/Southeast asia each gets 3 teams, then Asia region would field total of 9 teams vs. 6, at which point it may be better to just host an all-asian final instead. If the whole point of world championship is to have different regions play each other, then having 9/16 teams or 10/16 teams (if AU advances) will lessen that purpose. From what i can recall, top seed, from US, EU, KOR, and China gets a bye, the remaining 10 teams play group stage where 2 teams from each team will advance, then it's 8 team regular format. This pretty much guarantees that in each group of 5 teams in the group stage, no 2 teams will be from the same region. The break down can be (US #2, EU#3, CN#2, KOR #2, SEA#1) and (US#3, EU#2, SEA#2, KO#3, Wildcard). Not sure why this is so complicated for viewers to follow. Finally, if we do expand the teams to 16, and allow 4 groups of 4, there is a chance that we may see all asian teams in the quarterfinals. Where the current format guarantees at least 1 NA and 1 EU team in the quarter finals. On July 12 2013 11:41 Amarok wrote: That analogy doesn't really apply here. Discrepancies in the expenditure of sporting clubs don't de-legitimize a sport, but they do often make matches less entertaining. Many major sporting leagues have strictly regulated salary caps that attempt to keep competition even and exciting. Really that's the biggest problem with such a EU/NA heavy competition. The quality of games will be lower, making the spectacle less entertaining. Not to mention a 14 team tournament is terrible. The format will need to be complicated and difficult for the viewer to follow. That's the last thing a tournament needs. Anyone who follows cricket will know what a disaster some of their world cup formats have been. 16 teams, 4 groups of 4, Quarters, Semis, Final. Simple. You also get two extra extremely high quality teams added for viewing, improving the overall experience. Seems a no brainer to me. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2013 12:33 overt wrote: I think WE or iG are more likely to go to worlds than PE personally. OMG should definitely go though. It's still too early to tell, all four teams are strong. Part of me secretly hopes to see Wh1t3z and Tabe return to western audiences even if Royal Club's shots are pretty slim. I'd say WE, PE, iG, and Royal all have similar chances of going to Worlds. As of right now they're taking games off each other at similar rates. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:48 TheYango wrote: Continuing on the discussion about # of slots, the biggest quip I have isn't necessarily that Korea and CN have less slots, but that in order to give them less slots, Riot deliberately chose a less sensible number of teams to have in the tournament. WTF is a 14 team tournament? A 16 team tournament is easier to create a format for AND would give an additional slot to KR/CN. 16 teams, groupstage with 4 groups of 4, put the top qualifier from NA/KR/CN/SEA in separate groups, then either top 2 advance to single elim Ro8 OR put top 2 in WB, bottom 2 in LB for double elim bracket. Took me less than 2 minutes to create a more sensible tournament format. How are you always so right? @Letmelose, I see where you're coming from, you are clearly passionate about eSports and Riot isn't living up to those expectations. You'll certainly not see me praising the system. For example, 14 teams is hella dumb. I suppose the discussion about what can be improved is worth having, but I don't think we should let it ruin the Season 3 finals for ourselves as fans. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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abcb
United States136 Posts
On July 12 2013 12:58 sylverfyre wrote: What Yango said. 14 makes no fucking sense. 16 makes a standard tournament. Why aren't they giving CN and KR a third slot each? As I explained above, giving KR and CN and extra slot probably = all asian teams in round of 8, where the current format places for sure atleast 1 US and 1 EU team in round of 8. Seeing how EU and US has tons of audiences, it makes sense to have atleast 1 team from those 2 regions to be in round of 8. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 12 2013 12:39 abcb wrote: I was not arguing whether or not the current format made sense or that it would've been less entertaining than a 16 team format. I was simply stating that unfairness in professional sports are everywhere, and they do not de-legitimize the sports itself. I was merely comparing the fairness of baseball to fairness of letting Riot determining # of teams selected from each region. Who's saying LoL is de-legitimatized as an esport? It's a great competitive game with a huge following. It doesn't need to prove itself to anyone. But this is a shitty format for the pinnacle of the competition and should be called out as such. On July 12 2013 12:39 abcb wrote:I do have to say though, EU + NA = 6, China + Korea + Southeast asia = 7. How is this event EU/NA heavy? If you want a format of 16 teams such as EU/NA/China/Korea/Southeast asia each gets 3 teams, then Asia region would field total of 9 teams vs. 6, at which point it may be better to just host an all-asian final instead. If the whole point of world championship is to have different regions play each other, then having 9/16 teams or 10/16 teams (if AU advances) will lessen that purpose. EU and NA get an extra slot over all other regions. The All Star slot isn't a "Korean" slot and you know it. Stop deliberately misrepresenting the facts. I didn't suggest 3 extra slots. I suggested an extra slot for the two highest performing regions in the world. Is the soccer world cup blighted by the fact that later stages are generally dominated by European and South American teams? Of course not, having better teams progress makes for a more interesting tournament. Lastly since when is Australia in Asia? On July 12 2013 12:39 abcb wrote: From what i can recall, top seed, from US, EU, KOR, and China gets a bye, the remaining 10 teams play group stage where 2 teams from each team will advance, then it's 8 team regular format. This pretty much guarantees that in each group of 5 teams in the group stage, no 2 teams will be from the same region. The break down can be (US #2, EU#3, CN#2, KOR #2, SEA#1) and (US#3, EU#2, SEA#2, KO#3, Wildcard). Not sure why this is so complicated for viewers to follow. That it's needlessly complicated is the problem. Not to mention the best teams play fewer games, again lowering the quality of the matches. On July 12 2013 12:39 abcb wrote:Finally, if we do expand the teams to 16, and allow 4 groups of 4, there is a chance that we may see all asian teams in the quarterfinals. Where the current format guarantees at least 1 NA and 1 EU team in the quarter finals. This is the real reason they're doing it and it stinks. Giving a free ride to teams that don't deserve it is a stupid and corrupt way to run a professional competitive event with a global reach. Furthermore I think it highlights a lack of understanding in what makes people connect with competitive video games in the first place. Yeah there are team fanboys, but fundamentally people watch video games because they enjoy watching a game they love playing being played at the highest level. It's not like other sports where you have nationalistic/tribal responses accelerating the competitive instinct. Even if you make the assumption that an EG/TSM doing well is good for viewer numbers, having them bow out in the quarter finals is only marginally better than having them bow out of the group stage. It's certainly not going to be worth the accusations of favoritism that will come about as a result of this format. | ||
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abcb
United States136 Posts
I dunno, maybe my view is just way different regarding the teams distribution. From my point of view, there is ASIA and there is rest of the world. The team breakdown makes sense to me because EU/US gets 6, Asia gets 6 + 1 all star. That to me is perfectly fair and even. Your suggestion of 1 extra slot for the highest performing regions would essentially make it that Asia field 9 teams. It doesn't matter that 1 of the slot came from the all stars, the end result is you have an overwhelming # of asian teams vs the rest of the world. I guess we also view the games different. Personally I watch all stars to cheer on the region I want to win. For me it was CN and KR. If they all got knocked out early, then I lose interest. I mean what's the point of watching the game if you aren't passionate about the team who is playing it? For me, it's totally the emotional drama that comes with the competition, the up and downs of my favorite team, the roster changes, the free agency, the poaching of players, the rivalry that makes me want to watching the game. For pure mechanical skill play, there are plenty of diamond and challenge level solo queue stream everyday for that. Last but not the least, professional sports are full of free rides. World Cup host country automatic gets a bye so they don't have to play group stage. Initial NBA playoff always place the Rank #1 to play Rank #8, this is essentially giving them free rides since they get to play the statically weakest team. It also leads to more blowout of 3-0 vs. if the #1 team play against #2 team where the series might actually be decided by a game 5. I fail to see giving US and EU an extra slot is any different than what other professional sports are doing. On July 12 2013 13:12 Amarok wrote: Who's saying LoL is de-legitimatized as an esport? It's a great competitive game with a huge following. It doesn't need to prove itself to anyone. But this is a shitty format for the pinnacle of the competition and should be called out as such. EU and NA get an extra slot over all other regions. The All Star slot isn't a "Korean" slot and you know it. Stop deliberately misrepresenting the facts. I didn't suggest 3 extra slots. I suggested an extra slot for the two highest performing regions in the world. Is the soccer world cup blighted by the fact that later stages are generally dominated by European and South American teams? Of course not, having better teams progress makes for a more interesting tournament. Lastly since when is Australia in Asia? That it's needlessly complicated is the problem. Not to mention the best teams play fewer games, again lowering the quality of the matches. This is the real reason they're doing it and it stinks. Giving a free ride to teams that don't deserve it is a stupid and corrupt way to run a professional competitive event with a global reach. Furthermore I think it highlights a lack of understanding in what makes people connect with competitive video games in the first place. Yeah there are team fanboys, but fundamentally people watch video games because they enjoy watching a game they love playing being played at the highest level. It's not like other sports where you have nationalistic/tribal responses accelerating the competitive instinct. Even if you make the assumption that an EG/TSM doing well is good for viewer numbers, having them bow out in the quarter finals is only marginally better than having them bow out of the group stage. It's certainly not going to be worth the accusations of favoritism that will come about as a result of this format. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
5 Africa, 13 Europe, 3 North America, 4 South America, 4 Asia. 1 Goes to a playoff of SA/NA and 1 to a Asia/Oceania Playoff. Plus always the host country. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 12 2013 13:34 abcb wrote: Last but not the least, professional sports are full of free rides. World Cup host country automatic gets a bye so they don't have to play group stage. Initial NBA playoff always place the Rank #1 to play Rank #8, this is essentially giving them free rides since they get to play the statically weakest team. It also leads to more blowout of 3-0 vs. if the #1 team play against #2 team where the series might actually be decided by a game 5. I fail to see giving US and EU an extra slot is any different than what other professional sports are doing. The World Cup host country getting an automatic slot isn't really analogous here as no LoL team is getting a free ride.That event is a real world sporting example that you can draw parallels from though. It's a global sporting event with a lengthy qualifying process and sure enough the strongest region dominates the qualification slots. 13 slots are given to Europe (nearly half the total), and while you might argue Asia deserves fewer slots and South America more it's clear that the overall strength of the qualification regions is the main reason for the allocation. The NBA analogy is just silly. Of course #1 plays #8. Playing the weakest team in the playoffs is the reward for finishing the regular season as the most consistently strong team. That's what a good competitive tournament structure does, rewards the best performing teams, a good example of structures set up to ensure teams don't get free rides. I have pretty fundamental disagreements with the rest of your post, but I've outlined those points and won't belabor them. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
More importantly: Europe gets 13 world cup spots? Man that's crazy. | ||
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Ethelis
United States2396 Posts
On July 12 2013 13:42 cLutZ wrote: Just as an FYI b/c somone referenced it: World Cup is: 5 Africa, 13 Europe, 3 North America, 4 South America, 4 Asia. 1 Goes to a playoff of SA/NA and 1 to a Asia/Oceania Playoff. Plus always the host country. And why is that? Skill level. Of course it's not PURELY skill level, it's a world cup after all, but the weaker regions are less represented...host country excluded. If you give NA 1 extra spot for hosting that's cool but yeah... | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 12 2013 14:00 bittman wrote: More importantly: Europe gets 13 world cup spots? Man that's crazy. Why is it crazy? The strongest teams come primarily from this region. The quality of the competition would be much lower if it was a more even distribution. | ||
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niukasu1990
1007 Posts
On July 12 2013 09:41 abcb wrote: Riot may not wanted to screw over the taiwan region but the decision may not be up to Riot but up to Tencent. As you know, Riot was bought out by Tencent for 400+ mill, Tencent is a chinese MAINLAND corporation that have many dealing with the PRC government (virtually all of Tencent operations/company require PRC government regulatory approval). For example, twitter is banned in china, but Tencent's own version of twitter/fb is allowed because they follow government's censorship requirements and gotten approval for it. Taiwan is a very sensitive touchy subject in mainland china. Chinese people are generally pretty upset about claims to regions that they believe that's theirs, and they will backlash against nations that also claims that land. For example, the giant backlash against japanese car makers because Japan and China was fighting over an island in the eastern china sea. It is very possible that Tencent/Riot purposely lower taiwan's entry/standing publically to show that they value Mainland China > taiwan so that there won't be any potential backlash against them. You are thinking too much | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
SA and Africa "region" gets 0 slots compared to EU/NA/Asia "region"? What is this?! Or we can arrange it by population then. Then China gets 4 slots, US get 1 slots. Perfectly fair to me. + Show Spoiler + And that's still one too many for US gameplay wise. Trying to justfiy the slots is either 1) You understand why Riot wants EU/NA to make it further in 2) Dumb rationalizations. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2013 14:39 cascades wrote: 1) You understand why Riot wants EU/NA to make it further in And I don't agree with it. Let's be clear about this, the viewership in China absolutely dwarfs Western viewership AND Chinese viewers are more fickle than viewers from other countries. WE failing to make it to Worlds (very possible) will probably result in the largest possible viewership hit of any team not making it to Worlds. In fact, I would venture that a no-WE Worlds would potentially result in a larger loss of viewership than a no-NA/EU Ro8. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 12 2013 14:50 TheYango wrote: And I don't agree with it. Let's be clear about this, the viewership in China absolutely dwarfs Western viewership AND Chinese viewers are more fickle than viewers from other countries. WE failing to make it to Worlds (very possible) will probably result in the largest possible viewership hit of any team not making it to Worlds. In fact, I would venture that a no-WE Worlds would potentially result in a larger loss of viewership than a no-NA/EU Ro8. maybe that's part of it though? like why pander to fans that are going to turn off the stream (or get up and leave the event... or ASK FOREIGNERS TO LEAVE THE EVENT) when their team loses? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Any "marketing" argument doesn't make sense to me because the places where Riot stands to gain the most from selling LoL harder are the places they're screwing over the most. NA is the region that benefits most from this, but is also the place where LoL is already most entrenched (e.g. has the least competition from other E-sports games or games in the same genre), has been around the longest, and where the LoL's least likely to find new players to market to. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On July 12 2013 14:50 TheYango wrote: And I don't agree with it. Let's be clear about this, the viewership in China absolutely dwarfs Western viewership AND Chinese viewers are more fickle than viewers from other countries. WE failing to make it to Worlds (very possible) will probably result in the largest possible viewership hit of any team not making it to Worlds. In fact, I would venture that a no-WE Worlds would potentially result in a larger loss of viewership than a no-NA/EU Ro8. I actually agree with you. I just wanted to debunk the region/continent garbage that keeps on being brought up. This is TL, and that is tripe that belongs on Reddit. However you must also consider spending power of viewers. I wager that Riot has decided that the monetization potential of the West is justified to the risk of not having WE in Worlds. Basically, Riot is choosing to go down the Halo/CoD route. Background info: Halo/CoD are mediocre but well made AAA titles that are popular. This is because Americans do well on the competitive circuit, as generally only Americans take them competitively. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
Anyway Riot's promotion of competitive LoL has never been about viewer numbers or sponsorship $$. That's chump change compared to the marketing benefits reaped by exciting games showcasing the most skillful players. Should point out, I'm still super excited. This will still be an awesome event and we'll get to watch some incredible matches. Pumped!! | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
2nd point- Unsubstantiated opinion. Where are the most skillful players? Sitting at home in CN/KR/TW. | ||
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datscilly
United States528 Posts
On July 12 2013 12:39 abcb wrote: + Show Spoiler + I was not arguing whether or not the current format made sense or that it would've been less entertaining than a 16 team format. I was simply stating that unfairness in professional sports are everywhere, and they do not de-legitimize the sports itself. I was merely comparing the fairness of baseball to fairness of letting Riot determining # of teams selected from each region. I do have to say though, EU + NA = 6, China + Korea + Southeast asia = 7. How is this event EU/NA heavy? If you want a format of 16 teams such as EU/NA/China/Korea/Southeast asia each gets 3 teams, then Asia region would field total of 9 teams vs. 6, at which point it may be better to just host an all-asian final instead. If the whole point of world championship is to have different regions play each other, then having 9/16 teams or 10/16 teams (if AU advances) will lessen that purpose. From what i can recall, top seed, from US, EU, KOR, and China gets a bye, the remaining 10 teams play group stage where 2 teams from each team will advance, then it's 8 team regular format. This pretty much guarantees that in each group of 5 teams in the group stage, no 2 teams will be from the same region. The break down can be (US #2, EU#3, CN#2, KOR #2, SEA#1) and (US#3, EU#2, SEA#2, KO#3, Wildcard). Not sure why this is so complicated for viewers to follow. Finally, if we do expand the teams to 16, and allow 4 groups of 4, there is a chance that we may see all asian teams in the quarterfinals. Where the current format guarantees at least 1 NA and 1 EU team in the quarter finals. Even in the current format, it is likely that the quarterfinals will have 1 NA team and 7 Asian teams. Unless they rig the groups so that four or more NA/EU teams go in the same group. Also, in respond to the last paragraph in spoilers, no, EU does not get a bye. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 12 2013 15:21 cascades wrote: It won't make Western teams perform better, but it will make them look better. Marginally better. So marginally that it's detrimental to stack a competition with them. Of course this is all assuming you subscribe to the "western teams are weaker" argument. If you don't subscribe to that argument then western teams don't need a comparatively stronger presence than eastern teams to feature in the later stages of the tournament. On July 12 2013 15:21 cascades wrote: 2nd point- Unsubstantiated opinion. Where are the most skillful players? Sitting at home in CN/KR/TW. I don't know. I'd like to have the opportunity to come to a conclusion based on as many candidates as possible attending the world finals and competing against each other. Riot disagrees. And it's not wholly unsubstantiated. The All Stars at least hinted very strongly what most suspect about the strength of the regions. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Are people going to be disappointed with (made up results inc) a quarters of C9, OMG, MVP Oz, SGS (byes) vs. The top 2 of the following groups: 1: Alt, Vulcan, IG/WE, Frost, AHQ 2: Fanatic, Gambit, Blaze. TSM/CLG, Insert Crazy Aussie Team | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 12 2013 15:36 cLutZ wrote: Anyways. I think MOST people would love to see a 16 team bracket, but the current bracket isn't too bad. Are people going to be disappointed with (made up results inc) a quarters of C9, OMG, MVP Oz, SGS (byes) vs. The top 2 of the following groups: 1: Alt, Vulcan, IG/WE, Frost, AHQ 2: Fanatic, Gambit, Blaze. TSM/CLG, Insert Crazy Aussie Team Agreed. It's more of a principled stance than anything. The tournament will be awesome. | ||
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HPoirot
United States1303 Posts
On July 12 2013 15:06 cascades wrote: However you must also consider spending power of viewers. I wager that Riot has decided that the monetization potential of the West is justified to the risk of not having WE in Worlds. Basically, Riot is choosing to go down the Halo/CoD route. Background info: Halo/CoD are mediocre but well made AAA titles that are popular. This is because Americans do well on the competitive circuit, as generally only Americans take them competitively. The popularity of CoD as an ESPORT has very little to do with the fact that the top players are Americans. Also not sure why you think competitive Halo was ever about monetization. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 12 2013 15:41 Amarok wrote: Agreed. It's more of a principled stance than anything. The tournament will be awesome. And the problem is less in the tournament, its the qualification for. The EU/NA LCS teams could potentially (for qualification purposes), using today's standings, finish like so: EU: #1 NIP, #2, Lemondogs, #3MYM (Tied for 4th) NA: #1. Dig (Bye)(6), 2 TSM (5), 3. Coast (4) We can love Bjergson all we want, and I do, but the only team of those that has a leg to stand on right now of those 6 is TSM because they won Spring Split. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
On July 12 2013 15:44 HPoirot wrote: The popularity of CoD as an ESPORT has very little to do with the fact that the top players are Americans. Also not sure why you think competitive Halo was ever about monetization. I'll never understand CoD. For its massive popularity it seems like a low quality ESPORT. Smallest crowds at MLG's, tournaments seem non existent. Yet one of the Optic guys can post a video on youtube and it will get a million plus hits in under a week. | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
I really thought it would be the below. It makes the most sense(to me. based off my vague understanding of how popular a game is in a region, and so maybe I'm doing an injustice to the SEA region, but it works!) overall: 3 NA / 3 EU / 4 KR (that +1 for winning all-stars) / 3 CN / 2 SEA / 1 International "wild card" | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
Status of Season 2 World Championship 1) 12 teams with 4 seeds for 5 regions (technically 6 since SEA and TW had separate routes of qualification): This was a problematic because obviously the numbers simply didn't fit. They ended up having to do a draw (luck playing a major part once again). In addition, first placed seeds were under the risk of being knocked out after a single BO3, whereas Season 1 World Championship encorporated both the group stages, and double elimination, meaning that all the different teams could demonstrate their level of skill to a reasonable degree without being too influenced by the nature of the brackets. 2) Group stages being influenced by starting positions: The Chinese tournaments were one of the first to fix the imbalance by introducing the new concept of a BO2. Professional players have been vocal about the advantage blue side gets, and there was no doubting that the round-of-robin stages were influenced by coinflips more than what was desired. 3) The need for representation from newer regions: I'm not sure about the scenes in Brazil, Australia, and Turkey, but some people felt that a truly global competition was in order with the need for implementation of some kind of a qualification route for teams from previously unrepresented regions. 4) No booths: This is just plain stupid. Even sound-proof booths are somewhat affected by crowd noises, and the notion that sound-proof headphones would do the job was unprofessional in my eyes. Multiple players were suspected of having the broadcasted screen within their field of vision, and in the case of Woong, the evidence was undeniable. The ease with which cheating could be done, and the manner in which the cases were dealt with left a bitter taste in many people's mouths. All cheating should be prevented pre-emptively as much as possible, and in the future, professional players should be warned of the consequences for any underhand methods of victory. 5) Nature of regames: The series between CLG EU and World Elite was wrecked by technical difficulties, and should not happen again. Should such technical difficulties happen again, and another situation where regames are necessary ensues, there should be some kind of an agreement to how it should be handled beforehand. So many questions were unanswered here. Exactly when is a game over? Should a re-game happen no matter what the situation is? Should the picks and bans remain identical, or should they be able to start off with a clean slate since teams are able to adapt on the fly? If teams are given a clean slate, should they be given extra time to prepare for new strategies? This is how I feel about it. If Riot is unable to judge accurately at which point a game is over (I'm suspecting this is the case), a re-game should be done every single time regardless of the circumstances. Once a re-game is decided, all teams should be given a clean slate to start-off with, and be given at least an extra day of preparation, so that they can recuperate from the mishap, and do their best to start-off from the cut-off point of the series. 6) Re-adjusting slot allocations: Although all competitions are plagued by politics and bureaucracy, some integrity can be gained if there is an illusion that the best are rewarded for their success. Like a lot of people have mentioned, the qualification spots for the FIFA World Cup are partly influenced by the performances of the teams, as well as accounting for variety, player base, and overall marketability. Season 2 World Championship was the first of its kind where teams from all over the region were included, and a fair representation for each of the regions was obviously out of anyone's hands. However, the results of Season 2 World Championship (with six regions to base our judgements on) should have been portrayed to some degree in my opinion. Status of Season 3 World Championship 1) 14 teams, 4 seeds for 4 regions: The tournament was expanded to encorporate two extra spots, one for the unrepresented regions, and another to adjust for the accurate, and fair representation of the regions. The idea itself is valid, and while I personally feel that further adjustments should have been made to in their attempt to represent the regions fairly (in a number of different ways, one of which is the expansion to 16 teams with further representation from regions judged to be worthy of extra-representation, suggested by TheYango), I am not going to criticize Riot in direction. And I'll talk about representation of the newer regions later on. However, the method in which they decided which regions get a seeding, and which regions get an extra spot was a farce. I ranted about this non-stop when the announcements for the All Stars Championship was made, so I'll cut it short by saying that there were too many inconsistencies involved with the overall design of the tournament to influence such a big part in the design of the one and only Season 3 World Championship. I'm Korean, so of course, I was more thrilled than anybody about the result, but the manner in which it was done was not fair. Also, the fact that the seeded team could theoretically only play two games against a single opposition before getting knocked out irks me. Not only is it a shame that we might not get to see the potential of the most powerful team in the region, it brings a lot of issues of whether all the seeds truly deserve the bye into the play-off rounds. Either give a team a chance to prove themselves by making the play-off rounds into a double elimination setting, or just do away with the bye altogether and just separate the seeds into separate groups so that we are guaranteed a variety of games against multiple oppositions. 2) Group stages being influenced by starting positions: Why is this not being fixed? The Tencent LPL fixed it. There is a fair balance when it comes to starting positions in the regular season of both LCS tournaments between all the teams. Ongament The Champions got solved the problem. There are just too many to list. Even the qualification stages for the Taiwanese teams have minimized the effect of starting positions by encorporating BO2 settings in the group stages. How an earth is it possible that the qualifcation stages for the main tournament is better designed in this particular aspect? Riot, why are you not getting with the times? BO2 has essentially solved the imbalance issues that follow round-of-robin settings. Use it, you nitwits. 3) The need for representation from newer regions: Excellent. Giving new regions a chance to compete is a good marketing decision as well as providing new story lines, more variety, and competitive integrity by opening up those willing, instead of it being a exclusive party. It is also not an invitation, but an arduous process that will reach its end at the International Wildcard tournament at Gamescom. I like it. 4) No booths: Just do it. Don't spend money on stupid dolls. Spend it on booths. Please. 5) Nature of regames: Learn from your mistakes. 6) Re-adjusting slot allocations: There were no re-adjustments, just a single extra spot that went towards accurate representation of the different regions, which was done in a god awful manner (the show was good, don't get me wrong, and I couldn't be more delighted with the result, but it was still done badly from a competitive design standpoint). One spot in good will (not even done properly) does not fix the allocations problems alone. There are talks of wildcard tournaments a-la the competition for the new regions, but for top teams that failed to qualify from the established regions, but we all know that would be too time consuming, and people don't seem to be too keen on pushing that idea. But we do have to attempt to re-structure the tournament even a little bit, to make it correlate somewhat with the performances from past competitions, in my opinion. I've expressed my distaste in what I feel is an unfair representation of the Taiwanese scene in the past. They had a sole representative that proved the worth of the Taiwanese region, and it was obvious to those around that the Taiwanese scene has flourished ever since the success of Taipei Assassins (although ironically the team that brought all the attention has nose-dived into mediocrity themselves). Regardless of exactly how strong the Taiwanese scene is, their results must be taken into account when deciding the qualification spots, just as much, if not more so than some random all stars event. Likewise, regions that did badly must come under scrutiny. Two teams went home without a single victory in the group stages, and that was SK Gaming and Dignitas. Of course both these teams had their reasons for performing below their usual level, but results are results. Both the third team from Europe and North America were unable to show their worth at the highest level. Now in my personal opinion, the following would have been fairer. Twelve teams, no decisions made from the All Stars Championship, but made directly from the results of Season 2 World Championship. Perhaps the representation would have been less accurate of the status quo, but in my eyes at least, is more fair. North America: 2 spots Europe: 2 spots South East Asia: 1 spot China: 2 spots Korea: 2 spots Taiwan: 2 spots Wildcard entry: 1 spot If we are to implement TheYango's idea of an easy to plan, 16 team tournament. Then the extra four spots becomes too hard to adjust for purely by going off a tournament that was completed a year ago, so perhaps the results of cross regional competition done in season 3 such as SWL S2, IEM World Championship, MLG Invitationals, NVIDIA Game Festival, Asian Indoor Games, and maybe even the All Stars Championship could be considered. Korea: IEM World Championship (CJ Entus Blaze), MLG Dallas Invitational (KT Rolster B), Asian Indoor Games (KT Rolster B) China: SWL S2 (Invictus Gaming), NVIDIA Game Festival (Team WE) Europe: IEM Katowice (Gambit Gaming) How should it be done? I'm not so sure, and some of the regions are harder to judge due to the lack of data. But season 3 saw the rise of four international level Chinese teams, and perhaps five if you argue for the inclusion of Royal Club, while both Azubu Taipei Assassins, and Snipers did moderately in two of the cross-regional tournament they participated in. KT Rolster B had international success against respectable opponents, showing their worth at a global level. Gambit Gaming were able to come on top against some of the most respected teams in Korea and North America. Which teams would we miss the most should they fail to qualify due to the varying number of qualification spots? I don't know. But it's something Riot should go to greater lengths to come to respectable conclusion. I feel like they just added a random number of extra teams to the allocations they already had without worring too much about it. | ||
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
But yah... Letmelose is pretty on point here. I think one thing Riot should be doing for the LCS is adding a point system (like OGN has) for World's Qualification. And they need to talk to CN/KR/Sea/International regions and get a schedule that is reasonably coordinated so there can be a few international tournaments. Maybe one per split? | ||
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jcc
United States472 Posts
The inclusion of a third slot for the western regions is intelligent due to the inclusion of the LCS this year as opposed to last year. People not only want to see the old crew get in (TSM, CLg etc) but would be ecstatic if an amateur team made it to Worlds. This would inspire more amateur teams, then a cascade starts. Honestly, whether Korea has 1 team or 5, we'll see Koreans in the finals, so why complain? | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On July 12 2013 22:39 jcc wrote: Honestly I feel that far too people view people due to their heavy emotional investment in said team or person. This is reflected in almost all popular streamers and teams. People rarely watch people just because their good, they have usually started some fad or have some addictive persona. The inclusion of a third slot for the western regions is intelligent due to the inclusion of the LCS this year as opposed to last year. People not only want to see the old crew get in (TSM, CLg etc) but would be ecstatic if an amateur team made it to Worlds. This would inspire more amateur teams, then a cascade starts. Honestly, whether Korea has 1 team or 5, we'll see Koreans in the finals, so why complain? I don't understand how just because there is a reasoning behind their choices, it somehow makes the decisions Riot made any fairer or more legitimate. Nobody is denying that Riot has their reasons for managing their tournaments the way they do, but the point I'm trying to make is that nothing about it is admirrable. Like you mentioned, Korea has already has reached a critical mass where the scene can pretty much handle itself, but it may not be so for some of the other regions that are being looked over in favour of the teams from the Western hemisphere. Just because Korea has managed to be represented to a respectable degree, it does not mean everyone's has gotten covered. It's not North America, Europe, Korea, and some random teams. You may argue that it doesn't matter since an Asian team will most likely win in the end. And you may be happy to see the various advantages of being able to qualify for the Season 3 World Championship with ease, being distributed amongst your region of interest, but shouldn't you consider that what you're rooting for is basically having no qualms about unfairly denying those same benefits towards other regions regardless of whether they deserve it or not? It does not make the competition legitimate just because a Korean team might win the whole thing in the end. There needs to be a fair representation across all regions, and hours of painstaking research and thought to ensure that everybody is doing their upmost best to include the very best teams from as many different regions as possible. Riot should make sure that the way in which it was done was fair, and understandable towards everyone involved. What is happening now is blatant favouritism over certain regions over others without a better explanation than "oh... we just stuck to the slot allocations from last year, but added in extra spots", as if the spot allocations made last year were in any shape or form perfect. It is no where near my expectations for how the only major international tournament should be run, and is quite frankly lacks authenticity in multiple aspects compared to even regional competitions. That is why I am complaining. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
What's most important to riot is to sell out at the staples center, and the best way to do that is to get as many western fans to buy the tickets. It doesn't matter if the teams are likely to be eliminated before the ro4 because they will have sold out long before then if they can get the right teams into the tournament. The ability to actually put on "the best event in esports history" instead of completely flopping last year and just saying it over and over is Riot's challenge this year and they definitely seem more equipped to do so. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9118 Posts
On July 12 2013 14:55 TheYango wrote: Any "marketing" argument doesn't make sense to me because the places where Riot stands to gain the most from selling LoL harder are the places they're screwing over the most. Riot isn't even the game publisher in China, they only indirectly benefit from LoL's growth there and I bet they'd take 1 new NA player over 10 new CN players in a heartbeat. Now we can't really reach a conclusion without knowing the details of their deal but isn't it more plausible that their marketing team, which has all the data, is more likely to know what the hell they're doing rather than people speculating on forums based on no numbers? | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
On July 12 2013 23:42 Dan HH wrote: Riot isn't even the game publisher in China, they only indirectly benefit from LoL's growth there and I bet they'd take 1 new NA player over 10 new CN players in a heartbeat. Now we can't really reach a conclusion without knowing the details of their deal but isn't it more plausible that their marketing team, which has all the data, is more likely to know what the hell they're doing rather than people speculating on forums based on no numbers? riot is owned by tencent | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
Making 14 team tournament just so certain teams can advance out of the groupstages. Sure, it makes League of legends the one eyed ruling the kingdom of blind (esports viewership), but everyone else laughs at it. I also personally hate it because i want to watch high quality plays and not NA teams noobing it up :p | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
On July 13 2013 01:06 AsnSensation wrote: Why not mention EU Teams noobing it up, too? Im clearly racist + Show Spoiler + Or i left Eu out as a joke, hence the ":p" | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9118 Posts
That's besides the point. Riot are looking after themselves. If TGA was in charge of S3 globally they'd do the same thing, they'd give more spots to China than the rest. To expand on this, Tencent is just the holding company, they don't micromanage Riot or LoL. The publisher in China is QQ Games which is also owned by them. So why would Riot give something up in favor of a sister company? | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On July 13 2013 01:04 LaNague wrote: see, this is why esports is not taken serious. Making 14 team tournament just so certain teams can advance out of the groupstages. Sure, it makes League of legends the one eyed ruling the kingdom of blind (esports viewership), but everyone else laughs at it. I also personally hate it because i want to watch high quality plays and not NA teams noobing it up :p Well there's only going to be one NA team after the group states so just skip that and then you get to enjoy the rest of the tournament | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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nojitosunrise
United States6188 Posts
http://www.gamespot.com/league-of-legends/videos/riots-magus-and-nick-allen-talk-tournament-format-and-more-6411345/ This is freaking amazing | ||
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ketchup
14521 Posts
On July 13 2013 05:00 nojitosunrise wrote: So US immigration offices now considers Riot + LoL to be a "sport" when giving out visas. http://www.gamespot.com/league-of-legends/videos/riots-magus-and-nick-allen-talk-tournament-format-and-more-6411345/ This is freaking amazing Very much so. Good to see that those "visa" problems will decline as a reason for people not being able to get places. | ||
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On July 13 2013 09:27 FSKi wrote: So is October 4th the date of when the final tournament starts, or the final day of the tournament. I really need some more info before I book a plane ticket. Riot pls. Staples 4th october is only the Grand Finals (assuming 1 Bo5) Groupstages will be played at an unknown venue, Quarter+Semis at Galen Center (Last years finals venue for Frost vs TPA) I think groupstages start on Sep 16th already. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 13 2013 09:56 FSKi wrote: Riot is incentivizing their fans not to attend the event. Spending money on 3 weeks worth of hotel/food/transportation and airfare would cost around $4000-$5000 USD. On top of that, they hold their event when a lot of people have to be in school. I was really excited to go to this event, but the logistics of the event are so horrendous that I can't. Why on earth would anyone spend so much money when the online broadcast would probably be a better experience? Sports works the same. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On July 13 2013 09:56 FSKi wrote: Riot is incentivizing their fans not to attend the event. Spending money on 3 weeks worth of hotel/food/transportation and airfare would cost around $4000-$5000 USD. On top of that, they hold their event when a lot of people have to be in school. I was really excited to go to this event, but the logistics of the event are so horrendous that I can't. Why on earth would anyone spend so much money when the online broadcast would probably be a better experience? Can't tell if serious... No one is expecting you to attend all three weeks. I live in California and I only attended the Finals last year. If anything, the three week window provides more flexibility for those who have to travel to compare costs, etc. | ||
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Mensol
14536 Posts
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 13 2013 12:58 FSKi wrote: I guess I'm just upset that it's not the all-inclusive experience I was looking for in such an event. I mean if it were a normal LAN tournament over one weekend, I'd gladly pay to see all the matches live. But if I'm only flying in to see the finals, I don't think its worth it, personally. Superbowl not worth it? | ||
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:52 FSKi wrote: You can't compare the two, really. The reason the Super Bowl is 2 weeks after the rest of the playoffs is to let players rest from a long grueling season of physical labor. This isn't really there in LoL, and I see no reason other than drawing in more stream viewers and ad revenue, for the extended playoff. But if I'm only flying in to see the finals, I don't think its worth it, personally. I'm saying such a sporting event does happen; only 1 final? But tons of people fly in just for it. If anything compared to any sports; it's extremely affordable to attend and watch all the playoffs and the final. | ||
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:58 FSKi wrote: Yeah that's a good point. It being centralized does reduce overall travel cost. However, if we want to do a direct comparison to something more relevant, as a consumer I'd much rather go to an event such as DotA's The International, where I would get much more value for the cost, in terms of number of games played. I agree with this sentiment. If I go to anything it will probably be the finals, but I would love to be able to watch the entire thing in person. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
For real it's lonely down in paradise =// | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Sri lanka plox. Or at least the UK when i go home :D | ||
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glzElectromaster
Japan2474 Posts
On July 13 2013 17:29 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: BRING A TOURNAMENT TO HAWAII THO For real it's lonely down in paradise =// Hilo plox. Edith Kanakaole Stadium. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
try Hawaii Convention Center or the Blaisedell | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
On July 12 2013 17:18 Letmelose wrote:This is how I feel about it. If Riot is unable to judge accurately at which point a game is over (I'm suspecting this is the case), a re-game should be done every single time regardless of the circumstances. Once a re-game is decided, all teams should be given a clean slate to start-off with, and be given at least an extra day of preparation, so that they can recuperate from the mishap, and do their best to start-off from the cut-off point of the series. While this is a perfectly reasonable suggestion, Riot only hires out these venues for a specific amount of time. The cost of getting an extra day would be astronomical and ruin months of planning and advertising on Riots part. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
Cant break the combo, gotta go to all the worlds  | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On July 13 2013 14:14 cLutZ wrote: I just want the LCS to come to the midwest...like ever. Yes plz. Are most of the games slated for the weekends? Or weekdays too? If one were to go watch live, what would be the best time to do so? | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 13 2013 11:23 Mensol wrote: Wildcard tournament is all about Turkish and Brazil team imo. Dark Passage and paiN play some quality LoL. i think they can put a good fight against NA teams. I thought the wildcard tournament was for all the regions not covered by the standard allocations (OCE, Turkey, Brazil, non-Gambit Russia). I must have missed some... | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
I'm planning a big trip next year for the finals. It's very difficult (and expensive) to book flights/accommodation/leave when you don't even know what country you will be flying to until 3 months prior. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On July 16 2013 11:54 Amarok wrote: I thought the wildcard tournament was for all the regions not covered by the standard allocations (OCE, Turkey, Brazil, non-Gambit Russia). I must have missed some... I think he means those are the teams to watch in that tournament. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On July 16 2013 11:58 onlywonderboy wrote: I think he means those are the teams to watch in that tournament. Ahhh... I really hope Immunity make it. They're on another level down here and I'd love to see how they stack up against the rest of the world. Also, #strayapride. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
1) North America: 3 entries Method of entry: As far as I know, the first placed team in the play-offs for the LCS Summer Season gains a direct bye into the round of eight, while I presume the second, and third placed teams in the play-offs will each be placed in different groups. Predictions: Cloud9 seems to have some of the most fluid decision making and team-fighting ability in the region, and are my pick to gain the direct seed into the round of eight. Team Vulcun has decent laning, and team fighting ability, but lacks smart game managament, however it's hard to argue against them gaining one of the remaining two spots. The last remaining spot is really hard to predict for me, but I'm going with Counter Logic Gaming due to their distinct style of play becoming more and more refined as time passes by. Hoping for some of the residents here to put forth their own predictions. 2) Europe: 3 entries Method of entry: I believe it's pretty much the same format as the one for North America. However, the major difference is that all three representatives of this region will have to start off from the group stages. Perhaps the first placed team will be separated from the rest of the European representatives, in a two to one split, but it's all guesswork. Predictions: I'm really struggling to grasp the hierachy between the teams in this region, even more so than North America. However, if I were to choose, I'll pick Ninjas in Pyjamas first. I'm not impressed at all by MYM, Evil Geniuses (although the team re-organization may change things), and SK Gaming, and don't think any of them will qualify. I'm really struggling to gauge the potential of Lemondogs, and Team Alternate without their starting AD carry. Which is why I'll go with the boring, uninspired route picking Gambit Gaming, and Fnatic as the remaining European participants. 3) Taiwan: 1 entry Method of entry: The qualifications has already begun, and the sole representative will gain a bye into the round of eight. http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Season_3_Taiwan_Regional_Finals Predictions: AHQ e-Sports Club, and Gamania Bears have performed better than I imagined so far, while the new team for Azubu Taipei Assassins looks completely underwhelming. I have watched maybe ten minutes of this region's qualifiers in total, so my predictions are basically worthless, but I'm still going with Azubu Taipei Snipers for my final pick. 4) South East Asia: 1 entry Method of entry: I have no idea how the tournament will be set-up, and what its scheduling will be like. Predictions: Singapore Sentinels? They looked fairly solid in the GPL, but Saigon Jokers seems to be a team capable of creating upsets, which will make things interesting. 5) China: 2 entries Method of entry: Could anyone clarify the situation for me? As far as I know, it's two teams who placed top two in the regular season for the LPL Spring Season (Invictus Gaming and OMG), and then the top two teams for the regular season of the LPL Summer Season (excluding the placements of Invictus Gaming, and OMG perhaps?), that will be included in a final qualification tournament. So it's four teams battling it out for two spots? Then the finals of that tournament will decide who gets to be seeded into the round of eight. If this is so, it doesn't quite make sense to me, since the play-offs are redundant from a competitive point of view, and teams battling for two final two spots are at an advantage since there are only six teams (assuming they don't reward Invictus Gaming, and OMG if they finish two top again), compared to the eight teams who competed for two spots in the spring season. Predictions: OMG looked to be a cut above the rest in terms of decision making, and overall game management. However, the scene is quite hard to predict since it has progressed from the days when World Elite, and Invictus Gaming had monopoly over everyone else. If I were to choose, I'd pick OMG for the first place, and I have a gut feeling that Team WE will still somehow persevere. 6) Korea: 3 entries Method of qualification: The first placed team in terms of cumulative circuit points starting from the winter season from last year will be seeded directly into the round of eight, while the second placed team will be introduced to the group stages. The final spot will be decided by a separately run play-offs round, in which the sixth placed team and the fifth placed team will start off the tournament, with the eventual finalist of this tournament duking it out against the third placed team, who gets a bye into the finals. http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=2744&l=1988 Predictions: I'm expecting one of Najin Black Sword, or MVP Ozone to gain the most circuit points by the end of the summer season. MVP Ozone might take the first placed spot, and Najin Black Sword will most likely place in the top two due to their current lead in terms of circuit points. I have a feeling that CJ Entus Blaze will suffer another heart-break two years in a row at the hands of SK Telecom T1 in the wildcard rounds. 7) International Wildcard: 1 entry Method of entry: If what I read from Leaguepedia is to be trusted, one team each from Brazil, Russia, Latin America, Turkey, and Oceania will battle it out at Gamescom for a single spot. Predictions: I only know of paiN Gaming due to their IEM appearances, and I think it's best to leave the predictions for this to the experts. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
4) South East Asia: 1 entry Method of entry: I have no idea how the tournament will be set-up, and what its scheduling will be like. Predictions: Singapore Sentinels? They looked fairly solid in the GPL, but Saigon Jokers seems to be a team capable of creating upsets, which will make things interesting. http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/The_Legends_Circuit/Regular_Season Singapore representative for SEA qualifier http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Malaysian_League_of_Legends_2013_Tournament/Spring_Season Malaysia representative for SEA qualifier http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/2013_LCS_Pro_League_Thailand Thailand representative for SEA qualifier Philippines qualifier and Vietnam qualifier not announced yet, but they will also be included for the SEA qualifier. http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Season_3_Southeast_Asia_Regional_Finals/Qualifiers Only KLH is confirmed for SEA qualifier. SGS is expected to take Singapore qualifier, BKT to take Thailand qualifier, MLE to take Philippines qualifier, SAJ to take Vietnam qualifier. | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On July 16 2013 13:00 Amarok wrote: Ahhh... I really hope Immunity make it. They're on another level down here and I'd love to see how they stack up against the rest of the world. Also, #strayapride. Even though Immunity's the best team in Australia/Oceania, they are still nowhere near the rest of the world. Their team coordination isn't that good and their strategies are predictable... they're just a team with 5 of the best players in AU. I don't think they could even compete against challenger NA teams. edit: Immunity might not even make it to Gamescom, Exile5 Eclipse has a good shot of knocking them out. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
On July 16 2013 19:42 Letmelose wrote: Okay, time for some predictions now that many of the qualification stages are set in motion. 1) North America: 3 entries Method of entry: As far as I know, the first placed team in the play-offs for the LCS Summer Season gains a direct bye into the round of eight, while I presume the second, and third placed teams in the play-offs will each be placed in different groups. Predictions: Cloud9 seems to have some of the most fluid decision making and team-fighting ability in the region, and are my pick to gain the direct seed into the round of eight. Team Vulcun has decent laning, and team fighting ability, but lacks smart game managament, however it's hard to argue against them gaining one of the remaining two spots. The last remaining spot is really hard to predict for me, but I'm going with Counter Logic Gaming due to their distinct style of play becoming more and more refined as time passes by. Hoping for some of the residents here to put forth their own predictions. 2) Europe: 3 entries Method of entry: I believe it's pretty much the same format as the one for North America. However, the major difference is that all three representatives of this region will have to start off from the group stages. Perhaps the first placed team will be separated from the rest of the European representatives, in a two to one split, but it's all guesswork. Predictions: I'm really struggling to grasp the hierachy between the teams in this region, even more so than North America. However, if I were to choose, I'll pick Ninjas in Pyjamas first. I'm not impressed at all by MYM, Evil Geniuses (although the team re-organization may change things), and SK Gaming, and don't think any of them will qualify. I'm really struggling to gauge the potential of Lemondogs, and Team Alternate without their starting AD carry. Which is why I'll go with the boring, uninspired route picking Gambit Gaming, and Fnatic as the remaining European participants. 3) Taiwan: 1 entry Method of entry: The qualifications has already begun, and the sole representative will gain a bye into the round of eight. http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Season_3_Taiwan_Regional_Finals Predictions: AHQ e-Sports Club, and Gamania Bears have performed better than I imagined so far, while the new team for Azubu Taipei Assassins looks completely underwhelming. I have watched maybe ten minutes of this region's qualifiers in total, so my predictions are basically worthless, but I'm still going with Azubu Taipei Snipers for my final pick. 4) South East Asia: 1 entry Method of entry: I have no idea how the tournament will be set-up, and what its scheduling will be like. Predictions: Singapore Sentinels? They looked fairly solid in the GPL, but Saigon Jokers seems to be a team capable of creating upsets, which will make things interesting. 5) China: 2 entries Method of entry: Could anyone clarify the situation for me? As far as I know, it's two teams who placed top two in the regular season for the LPL Spring Season (Invictus Gaming and OMG), and then the top two teams for the regular season of the LPL Summer Season (excluding the placements of Invictus Gaming, and OMG perhaps?), that will be included in a final qualification tournament. So it's four teams battling it out for two spots? Then the finals of that tournament will decide who gets to be seeded into the round of eight. If this is so, it doesn't quite make sense to me, since the play-offs are redundant from a competitive point of view, and teams battling for two final two spots are at an advantage since there are only six teams (assuming they don't reward Invictus Gaming, and OMG if they finish two top again), compared to the eight teams who competed for two spots in the spring season. Predictions: OMG looked to be a cut above the rest in terms of decision making, and overall game management. However, the scene is quite hard to predict since it has progressed from the days when World Elite, and Invictus Gaming had monopoly over everyone else. If I were to choose, I'd pick OMG for the first place, and I have a gut feeling that Team WE will still somehow persevere. 6) Korea: 3 entries Method of qualification: The first placed team in terms of cumulative circuit points starting from the winter season from last year will be seeded directly into the round of eight, while the second placed team will be introduced to the group stages. The final spot will be decided by a separately run play-offs round, in which the sixth placed team and the fifth placed team will start off the tournament, with the eventual finalist of this tournament duking it out against the third placed team, who gets a bye into the finals. http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=2744&l=1988 Predictions: I'm expecting one of Najin Black Sword, or MVP Ozone to gain the most circuit points by the end of the summer season. MVP Ozone might take the first placed spot, and Najin Black Sword will most likely place in the top two due to their current lead in terms of circuit points. I have a feeling that CJ Entus Blaze will suffer another heart-break two years in a row at the hands of SK Telecom T1 in the wildcard rounds. 7) International Wildcard: 1 entry Method of entry: If what I read from Leaguepedia is to be trusted, one team each from Brazil, Russia, Latin America, Turkey, and Oceania will battle it out at Gamescom for a single spot. Predictions: I only know of paiN Gaming due to their IEM appearances, and I think it's best to leave the predictions for this to the experts. 1) North America As much as I dont want to see them in there I am pretty sure TSM will manage to grab a spot. Of course I also assume they wont be doing any more major roster changes or anything similar to shake themselves out of order now that worlds are closing in. Cloud 9, will most likely go as well, if they can keep their 1st place remains to be seen as more teams figure them out (or looks to the koreans and counters them with their own old-korean meta). As for the 3rd spot it is hard, as it looks atm the competitors for this would be Vulcun and CLG, and I think when it comes down to it CLG just manages to pull through under stress. Vulcun could do it as well, but Im giving it to CLG. 3: C9, TSM, CLG 2) Europe This region is really odd atm, the previous split champion in Fnatic just had a roster change, and that could affect their regular season into just narrowly not making worlds again. Alternate is weird in that they lose to Fnatic (although with alternate having a sub), they have good days and bad days. Alternate will make it through based on having a really good day or not. Gambit, actually looks like a real candidate again, overall strong, although they get shat on by super aggressive strats. Will people figure that out after watching them play Lemondogs? I dont know, It would not surprise me if people decided to just keep playing passive strats like EU loves to do. Problem with calling EU teams, in my opinion, is that there are a load of teams now that could make it if they had a good day. (rulling out SK, MyM and EG, they are all close to each other in w/l so not sure which one makes it to playoffs in the end). NiP looks surprisingly strong, and so does Lemondogs, although LD seems to not be solid, and NiP looks the strongest of the 2 and Id have to give it to them in the end. 3: Gambit, NiP, Fnatic (Alternate, LD and Fnatic can all make it based on a good or bad day, but I think Fnatic comes out on top in terms of experience) 3) Taiwan From looking at some of the matches in the region recently and seeing AHQ primarily looking like a team that relies way to much on Westdoor and GT to carry them Id have to give the region to TPS. They look solid enough to beat anyone else going into the tourney. Gmania could potentially be good, but TPS wins in terms of experience and solidity (?) 1: Taipei Snipers 4) SEA I havent been following this scene to much in a while now (since Digibet stopped having bets on GPL and other SEA tournies QQ) but looking at the general rankings SGS is the clear favorite, followed by SJ. Jokers could make an upset again this year, as for the other teams in the region: gonna be totally honest when I say that they are major disappointmens. BKT hasnt been first in the Thailand "LCS" in its 2 first months and while they stay #2 overall, they arent doing good in the 3rd month either. KLH has crazy cheesy tactics from time to time and Id love to see them make it beyond their own region, but lets be frank, they are horrible. 1. SGS or SJ (just cause I want the Viet Pres to come out to S3 worlds) 5) China Watching OMGs dominating performance in the first split of the China's LPL I am going to say that they make it through the qualifiers for worlds. Behind that there are a lot of good teams now that could make it, old glory in WE and IG, newer teams like LMQ and Royal (personally love to see Uzi and Tabe make it to worlds), but when it comes down to the qualifying matches I am kinda moving towards WE making it. Equal to CLG they seem to do well in stress situations, they will have to adapt their tactics abit though as their strats have been "figured out" in by the other Chinese teams. If they can do that, and still look solid under pressure they will make it. 2. OMG, WE 6) Korea MVP Ozone, they are looking strong this OGN round allready, while Im not convinced that New Najin B is strong enough to take the 1st spot. And if they cant do that they will have to play against the likes of Frost (now with a roster to play whatever they want to beat teams) and Blaze (who seems to have gotten some of their mojo back) and everyone else, We know that Korea is probably the scariest scene in terms of total numbers of teams that could compete at a top level world wide. Im going to put it down to experience coming out on top in the end and give it to Blaze and SKT T1 going through. Frost is and always have been a strong and scary team that looks good under pressure, but they havent impressed anyone as of yet. The wildcard from Korea would be SKT T1, I believe they can make it if they repeat their success from the last round of OGN. and they seem to be strong already (basing of the 2 games they have had might be to little info atm, but they didnt look any weaker so far at least). 3. MVP, SKT T1, Blaze 7) Wildcard No Idea, would be cool to see Immunity make it (or whoever qualifes from the down-under Western server) so they could be the American hope when the American teams losses but PaiN could take it, they arent bad iirc. Other than that I have no clue (although the Turkish teams didnt look to strong and I have no idea who would be coming from Russia, Empire?) | ||
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nojitosunrise
United States6188 Posts
http://na.lolesports.com/season3/split2/articles/world-championship-tickets-available-aug-15 | ||
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