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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On October 31 2012 23:22 Kavas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 23:16 Fusilero wrote:On October 31 2012 23:14 Kavas wrote:On October 31 2012 23:10 Fusilero wrote:Cheer for maknoon and the man toss, never deal with this kind of drama :p. On a more important note WE JUST PICKED TF SHUT UP AND WATCH http://www.twitch.tv/eslasia Was watching the whole time. Still very disappointed in WE. It feels that they have not grown at all after replacing their support and jungle. They're playing a bit better but every game where they've been behind they have been unable to make any plans to come back from. The closest thing they had of a comeback was Misaya catching Zzitai (who historically is the no. 1 thrower on his team) in Game 1. Fzzf is a great blitzcrank but I wish he got a little bit better on other supports he hasn't impressed me too much off blitz and Chinese junglers suck there's not much WE can do about it :p. It's not support or jungle. It's generally a team and their game plan. For example Clg.eu when behind tries to make things happen (usually mid because froggen is like the only one on their team who isn't completely obliterated.) or group for objectives. Maybe it's because of the team comp but WE's plan when behind seems to be farm more. In other news it seems Zzitai is the better laner between the two but Misaya is still better at teamfighting.
Wexaio is great but I don't like how he just seems to scream "I MUST FARM OVER HERE" while everyone is trying to do something, I still think WE are a top tier team but I get your point they seem content to rely on glorious Chinese master race farm rather than try anything beyond that.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 31 2012 23:16 Kavas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 23:13 onlywonderboy wrote:
I like how how his response is heavily downvoted because he told everyone his honest opinion on the situation instead of just apologizing. I guess my point is, if people stopped rooting for teams solely based on one player raging in soloq, they wouldn't have any teams to root for. I think you'll find that most people do in fact root for individual players in teams rather than the teams themselves. A subtle difference but a big difference nonetheless.
That is such a foreign concept to me. I root for the Browns, Trent Richardson can be my favorite player, but I'm still rooting for his team to win, not just him. Maybe it's a hold over from single player e-sports like SC.
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On October 31 2012 23:17 ihasaKAROT wrote:Lets have a sample of one game to determine whos an ass and who is not. Oh wow he was BM against someone else. Heres a little secret, every progamer is BM at times. 1 game does not make a good sample to determine who is an ass and who is not. For the sake of argument lets say he is a BM player, that would put him on par in BMness with: Any TSM, CLGna and Korean player.... so what Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Although I agree with you that "1 game does not make a good sample to determine who is an ass and who is not", froggen's response here (http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/12e4zk/what_makes_it_ok_for_a_pro_to_act_like_a_douchebag/c6ub0hw) pretty much shows he lacks certain amount of maturity and character. Not that I blame him, guy is still young. For people caring about it, why do you care whether they care or not?
In other news, WE MAD.
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Its not really an incident for me, i assume he could pick before that eve and yeah i could beliebe it if a new lvl 12 player asked who froggen is but not a 2400 elo player especially because he says thta he ll post that shit in reddit where You can find one 'froggen big play' post once a day
Fuck alex parker
This sounds retarded Yeah and isnt supposed to mean pros>rest but yeah hes fucking froggen
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Don't a lot of pro players flame in soloQ though? Like, Ocelote, Dyrus and some more? I mean Froggen was pretty hardcore in there but I don't think I've seen such drama over flaming.
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On October 31 2012 23:17 ihasaKAROT wrote:Lets have a sample of one game to determine whos an ass and who is not. Oh wow he was BM against someone else. Heres a little secret, every progamer is BM at times. 1 game does not make a good sample to determine who is an ass and who is not. For the sake of argument lets say he is a BM player, that would put him on par in BMness with: Any TSM, CLGna and Korean player.... so what Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others
So the right thing to do is relative to what other similar people are doing? And why are some of you guys (edit: I'm referring to some on the previous page) assuming that the same people attacking Froggen are the same people that love watching other raging pros, as if it's impossible to not be hypocritical here? Isn't it obvious that when someone (e.g. a priest) appears to takes the moral "high" ground by not raging or not having affairs people will hold them to that higher standard?
Of course, CLG.EU never professed some kind of professional ethics for Froggen to violate, but CLG.EU still had a reputation for being calm, and some people loved them for that. So expectations were set based on a characteristic people loved and when what they loved was broken people were obviously upset. Not to mention that Froggen's reply made it all worse by having a selfish and bullying kind of tone.
This kind of thing has been happening since the dawn of time. If some unmarried hedonistic football player has a lot of affairs people don't really care but they'll buy the gossip mag to be entertained. If previously unscandaled Tiger Woods cheats on his wife it becomes a huge news item for like a week because people expected better of him.
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On October 31 2012 23:17 ihasaKAROT wrote:Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others
Wish pros would start setting an example for the community by NOT behaving like assholes.
(Post not directed @ Karot, just the whole thing in general)
Also, I find it stupid that you'd get away with shit like this because "oh it's on the internet." Know what happens when a football ref. allegedly says racial stuff to a football player? That shit gets investigated by the police! I doubt he'll be convicted but I also doubt he'll get many work offers in the future.
I'm not saying what Froggen did was comparable in stupidity nor do I think that everyone insulting people on SR should get investigated by the police. If anything, my point would be: These E-sport organizations needs to start PR-training their players, they could stand to gain sooo much from it. If I was the owner of CLG I'd be so pissed with Froggen even if I didn't think what he did was all that terrible in it self. Which I don't by the way, I just think it was stupid to even go there.
These (most of them) pros are kids and they're in a community that is unforgiving and BM. They have 20k people watching them play and they won't get away with what others do. They need to understand and accept this and I feel that it's up to the organizations to teach them the consequences of their tantrums.
I actually liked Froggen's response on Reddit. It had a tint of condescension to it and he tried too hard to defend himself, but the gist of it was "I went to far, it is unnecessary but it happened and I'm learning the ropes". CLG should invest in him by teaching him about being a public figure. He's a 17 yo pro gamer "superstar", how the hell is he supposed to handle that on his own?
(Source.)
Edit: Added important NOT in first paragraph! 
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On October 31 2012 23:45 Scip wrote:
Don't a lot of pro players flame in soloQ though? Like, Ocelote, Dyrus and some more? I mean Froggen was pretty hardcore in there but I don't think I've seen such drama over flaming.
You probably weren't around long enough. There have been threads slamming Ocelote because of his flaming before and even the thread where people were saying how they hated the new dyrus after he joined TSM instead of the cool, nice kid he was when he was still in EG.
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Don't really care about the whole Froggen drama but I gotta say reading "I AM FROGGEN" in the screenshot made me chuckle.
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Meh, Froggen should have simply typed a two line apology instead of trying to explain himself.
Frankly his mistake was not taking the time to type: "mid please" after picking Lee. Yes maybe he is a known player, but that doesn't mean everyone knows him.
Also, no matter what exactly went wrong, it is ALWAYS a bad idea to flame if you are in a PR reliant position (as Pro gamers currently are). Yes it might happen, but you need to focus on keeping calm and ignoring all attempts to troll you.
Raging out is a mistake that should not happen. I hope the teams finally learn this and sit down with their players and talk about this.
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froggen assuming everyone in euwest watches his stream and knows he playes leesin mid kind if shows clg.nas influence.
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Yes maybe he is a known player, but that doesn't mean everyone knows him.
Not saying what Froggen did was right, but pretty much everyone at his elo does know him, the eve was purposely trolling when he pretended not to know who froggen was
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@ cuddle too bad clgs owner is one of the biggest ragers in our xommunity
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On October 31 2012 23:53 Tula wrote:
Meh, Froggen should have simply typed a two line apology instead of trying to explain himself.
Frankly his mistake was not taking the time to type: "mid please" after picking Lee. Yes maybe he is a known player, but that doesn't mean everyone knows him.
My thoughts exactly. The funny part imo is "since when does everyone think AP HAS to go mid?" when he's been playing for CLG since January, went mid to play an AP champion in every of their tournament games. I don't think he'll play Lee mid at all during the MLG and if it's the case, the whole argument about people wasting his practice is dumb as well.
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On October 31 2012 23:58 LaNague wrote:
froggen assuming everyone in euwest watches his stream and knows he playes leesin mid kind if shows clg.nas influence.
Not that I agree with what he said/did or anything, but isn't he high enough in Elo that with the amount of games he's played recently, chances of this other guy never having been on his team/against him is extremely low?
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Why are we on this?
Guy makes a mistake, Froggen acted like a jerk, every pro does it at one point or another. Fucking Reddit, man.
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This virgil, chances are they played plenty of games together alrdy and it s fairly obvious eve was trolling
Also lanague's post is completel flawed bc im pretty sure he plays on na since the other game in 'question' has dyrus chauster in it and i see no reason for him to switch between euw and na
Cant check though since im on m phone so im not sure which server fcking alex parker plays on
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United States23745 Posts
On October 31 2012 23:45 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 23:17 ihasaKAROT wrote:Lets have a sample of one game to determine whos an ass and who is not. Oh wow he was BM against someone else. Heres a little secret, every progamer is BM at times. 1 game does not make a good sample to determine who is an ass and who is not. For the sake of argument lets say he is a BM player, that would put him on par in BMness with: Any TSM, CLGna and Korean player.... so what Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others So the right thing to do is relative to what other similar people are doing? And why are some of you guys (edit: I'm referring to some on the previous page) assuming that the same people attacking Froggen are the same people that love watching other raging pros, as if it's impossible to not be hypocritical here? Isn't it obvious that when someone (e.g. a priest) appears to takes the moral "high" ground by not raging or not having affairs people will hold them to that higher standard? Of course, CLG.EU never professed some kind of professional ethics for Froggen to violate, but CLG.EU still had a reputation for being calm, and some people loved them for that. So expectations were set based on a characteristic people loved and when what they loved was broken people were obviously upset. Not to mention that Froggen's reply made it all worse by having a selfish and bullying kind of tone. This kind of thing has been happening since the dawn of time. If some unmarried hedonistic football player has a lot of affairs people don't really care but they'll buy the gossip mag to be entertained. If previously unscandaled Tiger Woods cheats on his wife it becomes a huge news item for like a week because people expected better of him.
Someone mentioned that a lot of the top commenters were TSM fanboys. It's not a matter of liking watching pro's rage, it's the people who were saying "I hate CLG.EU now" but still like TSM when they have a player like Dyrus on the team. But yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of people who genuinely don't like any of the rage at all.
I guess I'm just split because I'm against rage and the general toxic community, but I feel like this was a minor incident in the grand scheme of things.
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Time to move on to happier thoughts, we have 3 LAN tournaments this weekend - MLG Dallas, IEF 2012 (Spoiler: WE will win) and Asus RoG PGW.
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On November 01 2012 00:17 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 23:58 LaNague wrote:
froggen assuming everyone in euwest watches his stream and knows he playes leesin mid kind if shows clg.nas influence. Not that I agree with what he said/did or anything, but isn't he high enough in Elo that with the amount of games he's played recently, chances of this other guy never having been on his team/against him is extremely low?
All the more reason to understand good PR. Even if you personally know 100% the Eve is trolling it doesn't make a difference unless average Joe instantly knows it too. =\
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EPT
