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Final Edit: Giving up on this since no one cares. At least I updated it every week for 2.5 months.
Only have 30 seconds and not sure who to ban?
Maybe this can help a little.
Updated as of:
[Patch 1.0.0.141: Draven Patch] (week 2)
Summoner's Rift:
High Priority: Shen, Shaco,
Low Priority: Morgana, Kennen, Vladimir, Lee Sin, Ahri, Cassiopeia,
Crystal Scar:
High Priority: Rammus, Shaco,
Low Priority: Warwick, Sion, Yorick, Poppy, Shen, Kassadin
Twisted Treeline:
High Priority: Singed, Shen, Udyr, Lee Sin
Low Priority: Shyvana, Warwick, Skarner, Mundo, Tryndamere, Shaco
Ban Free and FOTM champs:
Xerath, Blitz, Alistar
So in honor of SmashGizmo having the best birthday, I thought I'd try to contribute something to the forum today. I can think of a few times when people don't know what to ban when they're first pick, so I thought a quick reference list might be useful for some people.
Obviously discussion is warranted, because my first version each patch could be quite inaccurate and I want to update it to represent people with better opinions than me. I hope to try and update this thread for new patches and FotMs.
If this is a bad thread idea or I'm not the right founder, I don't mind if this gets removed. Hope it can help a few people though. ^_^
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No free weeker blitz ban? Why is the Vayne in there btw, dont see her at all anymore. Might wanna replace with karthus.
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Kassadin is not worth a ban, on anymap. He is the most easily countered champion in the game.
I dunno why you would ban shaco on Twisted instead of Udyr.
Also dunno why you would ban Kennen with high priority on SR. Or Vayne.
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On March 22 2012 23:38 Sven Stryker wrote:
Summoner's Rift:
High Priority: Shen, Shaco, Rammus, Kennen, Lee Sin
Low Priority: Morgana, Kassadin, Vayne, Udyr
All of your low priorty bans dont deserve a ban IMO, and drop Kennen and LS from high priority, I dont think they deserve it.
Im not sure that the designation actually makes sense now that I think about it. Apart from Shen/Shaco/Rammus I dont actually think anyone is must ban. Everyone else is just "meh why not, I dont need to see them this game," not really priority.
If you want to get a list of what most people would consider "acceptable" bans you would get into a list of about 25 champions. Ahri, Skarner, Cass, LS, Kennen, TF, Vlad, Riven and the rest are all about the same level of actual ban worthiness.
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Updated based on early responses.
Most of my choices were just based on stuff I've seen banned personally and bans I'd seen on High elo/Pro streams in the last few days. The TT ban list I actually took from Hazmat's list in Lulu GD.
Thanks for the quick responses, I will try to update quickly. Should be rough initially, but you guys are why TL is awesome.
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Depends on how you go. In soloQ great gankers like Ahri/Sion can easily be ban-worthy material if you don't think your teammates'll handle them (Sion being arguably more easily outpicked than Ahri), but in ranked 5s or drafts as 3+ people it's far easier to deal with mid ganking, for example.
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Bans are subjective to what i am playing(mid or jungle) and on the hero i want to play here is an example
If mid I'll ban depending on what i want to play: Cass , Galio , Fizz , Lee Sin , Mundo
If i jungle I'll ban ryze , cass , kassadin , Janna , lee sin
edit: this is from 2.2k+ perspective and i main fizz so i rarely ban him , but if i want to mid and i know a fizz player is in que or my character is very weak agaisnt him ill ban him. All relative. At low elo i would ban morgana because even pro players eat game ending Q's
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I really don't understand why Kennen have a higher priority than Ryze. And Skarner doesn't really deserve a ban atm imo, the mana nerf really hit him hard.
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I must have miss a lot.. When and why did Shaco came back as a must ban in non pub games ?
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I considered adding a section for banning specific opponents in your lane, but I was trying to just make a quick reference guide for when someone has 60 seconds to ban. High Priority being champs you should ban, Low Priority for when you can't think of anyone else to ban. For people that are good at banning, they'll ban based on their own weaknesses or lane matchups, but for people that aren't that good, I was hoping to make something quick and generic. (emphasis on generic) Also, this isn't for duo/team queue, because I would expect teams to be able to talk it out between each other.
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On March 23 2012 00:20 Sven Stryker wrote:
I considered adding a section for banning specific opponents in your lane, but I was trying to just make a quick reference guide for when someone has 60 seconds to ban. High Priority being champs you should ban, Low Priority for when you can't think of anyone else to ban. For people that are good at banning, they'll ban based on their own weaknesses or lane matchups, but for people that aren't that good, I was hoping to make something quick and generic. (emphasis on generic) Also, this isn't for duo/team queue, because I would expect teams to be able to talk it out between each other.
Lets says "not very good" as you described is anything up to 1700 elo , the only champion i would 100% ban is morgana , there are 50+ champions that can get fed to a completely game changing scenarios if their lane opponent is much worse. 6 ban wont cover it.
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I'll add Morgana back in then.
Riot gives 6 bans, so it helps to have a list somewhere near that number. If I list less than 6, it doesn't help someone if everyone I list is already banned or they want to first pick one. If I list 25+ champs, then it doesn't help anyone since they are effectively still having to do all of the work of choosing from a large list. I'm just trying to help narrow it down for when people are in a hurry.
Again, maybe this is just a bad thread idea, but I wanted to try to help people.
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On March 23 2012 00:31 Sven Stryker wrote:
I'll add Morgana back in then.
Riot gives 6 bans, so it helps to have a list somewhere near that number. If I list less than 6, it doesn't help someone if everyone I list is already banned or they want to first pick one. If I list 25+ champs, then it doesn't help anyone since they are effectively still having to do all of the work of choosing from a large list. I'm just trying to help narrow it down for when people are in a hurry.
Again, maybe this is just a bad thread idea, but I wanted to try to help people.
It's soloq , you dont know what champions your team will pick so u dont know what to ban. So assume the mentality that you have to ban in such a way that you will win your lane. Thats how you will probably get a better chance of winning from the banning phase.
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I would create a third category.
Popular bans: Champions that can be countered properly but are a huge threat if your not sure, that your team is proficient enough to deal with them. You could also call it pub-stompers or low-elo bans. I think popular bans sounds nicer.
Kassadin is a candidate. He can be countered, but when he is not and gets fed, he can terrorize the entire map with his high mobility. Shaco is similar. If not fed early, very weak mid/late game, but if he gets fed... terror.
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Well, this seems like the proper thread to post this in, and maybe this can generate some discussion.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k3Otu.png)
I polled the reddit community for their top bans. After the posting was done, I tallied up all the votes and graphed them.
This should give insight on common bans, and show that a few champions (Shaco, morgana, kass) are still banned constantly even 3 months later.
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Personally (~1500 elo)
Must ban: Shaco
Priority bans: Rammus, Shen
Ban-worthy: Morg, Kennen, Kassadin(if they have last pick) LS, WW
Sometimes I'll go outside of this list to ban whatever I don't like playing against(Brand as anivia and possibly a few others), and sometimes whatever my teammates say, but often times I just ignore them.
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Sometimes the bans really reflect the power curve of champs (i.e. Shen post-buff). But sometimes people just keep banning the same champs despite them not being the "top" picks.
For example Kass and Rammus are still frequently banned over Ahri/Kennen/Cassio and Lee/WW/Shyvana, despite the latter group being widely considered "stronger" overall. Kass and Rammus are annoying to deal with, but so is LB and she's never banned.
There are also some champs that are extremely strong in solo queue but almost never banned. Champs that come to mind are Riven, Olaf, WW, Udyr, Shyvana, Ziggs, Janna.
In general bans in solo queue should be 1) ban out your hard counters, 2) ban out champs that can snowball a team hard in solo queue, and finally 3) ban the op do-it-all-has-no-counter champs. Examples of 1 would be banning Janna if you jungle Udyr, or banning Cassio if you play Ryze. Examples of 2 would be LB/Shaco/Rammus. The champs on 3 are what this thread is discussing , and should be reserved for champs like Kennen and Vlad.
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If anyone actually played jungle mundo he would imo be a top ban on tt. Generally you focus on specific strats on TT so you don't want a counter to it.
Other than Lee Sin nothing is cut in stone and should be banned based on your team comp.
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I would never ban rammus atm
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Warwick, Shaco and Morgana are the three champs I would ban most of the time.
WW becomes unkillable, Shaco because teammates are unreliable, Morgana because she is fairly easy to play and teammates are unreliable.
Ban worthy I would consider Skarner because it is Solo Que, Ahri, Cass, Kass (once again solo que teammates), Kennen, Lee, Rumble, Shen and Shyvana.
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I'll catch up on the discussion and make any more changes tomorrow. I just did a quick update earlier this morning to change stuff to coincide with the new champion rotation.
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shouldnt we have different ranges of Elo for ban list?
Its cause High Elo info travels at a rather slow pace down the skill curve (Kassadin still top ban in low Elo. months ago, Tryndamere remained top ban for a while in low elo even after his nerf)
I heard Vlad was being banned in high elo but in 1300s, hes not banned at all
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On April 04 2012 08:09 Kenpachi wrote:
shouldnt we have different ranges of Elo for ban list?
Its cause High Elo info travels at a rather slow pace down the skill curve (Kassadin still top ban in low Elo. months ago, Tryndamere remained top ban for a while in low elo even after his nerf)
I heard Vlad was being banned in high elo but in 1300s, hes not banned at all
The thing is, in low ELOs it's not about how strong the champ is, but how easy it is to carry with it.
That's why pubstompers like Shaco, Kennen, Vlad, Tryn, Karthus, .. all have to be banned. I'd add any champ with stealth too, but nobody plays those, luckily
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High elo just figures out who is OP faster. There isn't really any OP champion right now, which is why I see mostly random bans from 1800-2k and when watching streams of 2.2k. I personally just hate lee sin and always ban him. Warwick can also be a problem with his impossibly large heal (80% of flat 20% of the target's hp?).
I have no idea why anyone bans rammus, 3 nerfs in a row, to things that weren't even a problem on him. Skarner is really bad now also.
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Rammus is annoyance factor. He still has the ability to get seen by a ward but still get to a lane and gank without you being able to react (or teammates being bad and just not reacting at all). Its a shaco/shen ban: just do it cuz it makes life easier.
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On April 04 2012 08:09 Kenpachi wrote:
shouldnt we have different ranges of Elo for ban list?
Its cause High Elo info travels at a rather slow pace down the skill curve (Kassadin still top ban in low Elo. months ago, Tryndamere remained top ban for a while in low elo even after his nerf)
I heard Vlad was being banned in high elo but in 1300s, hes not banned at all
I would love to do this, but I'd need a consensus betweeen people of how to break up the tiers and what to ban in each tier. It's mostly a problem of this already being a really vague (and probably bad) quick list. If people want to start just posting suggestions about how to separate elos and bans for each of them, I could get the first post headed in that direction.
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Bad teammates still get ganked and killed by Rammus. Just seen that, and he's so fast that it's annoying because there's not much you can do to help them if they're dumb enough (well, the same could be said with any champ, depending on the level of "dumb enough").
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I just started playing the game (or any dota for that matter) and I wonder. Can someone put a bit of depth behind the reasons why Shaco, Shen, Rammus and Morgana are banned in every game I spectate ? The few games I've played where I've seen a Shaco, my team has always won, he just rolls over and dies. ANd yes I'm not even ranked, but I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. Also everytime I try Rammus I fail badly.
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On April 04 2012 19:20 Sqq wrote:
I just started playing the game (or any dota for that matter) and I wonder. Can someone put a bit of depth behind the reasons why Shaco, Shen, Rammus and Morgana are banned in every game I spectate ? The few games I've played where I've seen a Shaco, my team has always won, he just rolls over and dies. ANd yes I'm not even ranked, but I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. Also everytime I try Rammus I fail badly.
A good Shaco is like lightning itself. By the time you hear him, you're already dead.
Rammus's Power Ball lets him have ridiculous jungle speed and ganking power.
Morgana is easy to play, farms easily, and wrecks teams with her ultimate.
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People like banning champions that abuse stupidity, which says something about those people who ban them.
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I feel confident playing with a Shaco in the other team. I don't feel confident in my teammates playing with a Shaco in the other team. I've tried, twice. Knowing where he is and what he wants to do is useless when your teammates don't use the information, nor react to it. It's true for most champ, but that's where the "abuse stupidity" becomes more relevant in cases like his.
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On April 04 2012 22:10 57 Corvette wrote:
People like banning champions that abuse stupidity, which says something about those people who ban them.
Or their confidence in teammates they've never played with before.
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You might want to add Kassadin, more for the "your own teammates" section.
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EPT
