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Katowice25012 Posts
The long awaited patch is now here and is big as all fuck you can read the full thing there. New map, new hero (Sylvanas), extra gold rewards, and balance changes to a bunch of heroes.
New Map Battleground
Tomb of the Spider Queen, a brand new 3-lane Battleground, has been added to Heroes of the Storm and is now available for play in all game modes!
- Spider Minions and enemy Heroes will drop magical Gems of Power upon death.
- Collect these Gems and turn them in to the Spider Queen’s Altars, which can be found in-between lanes at the center of the Battleground.
- Once either team has relinquished enough Gems to the Spider Queen, her Webweavers will descend and travel down each lane to siege the opposing team on three fronts.
- Each team can summon Webweavers by turning in 50 Gems. The number of required
- Gems will increase by 5 for each subsequent wave.
- Be sure to turn in Gems promptly! Gems collected by a player will be dropped upon death, but can be picked up by allied Heroes.
Sylvanas Windrunner has been added to Heroes of the Storm and is now available for play! Read on for a brief overview of her Abilities, and then check her out in Try Me Mode using the in-game Shop.
Basic Abilities
- Withering Fire (Q)
- Shoot the closest enemy for 25 damage, preferring Heroes. Stores 5 charges.
- Shadow Dagger (W)
- Deals 10 damage, and an additional 40 damage over 2 seconds, to target unit. This effect spreads to nearby units.
- Haunting Wave (E)
- Send forth a wave of banshees, dealing 30 damage to all targets. Reactivate to teleport to the banshees’ location.
Trait
- Black Arrows
- Basic Attacks and Abilities stun Minions, Mercenaries, and Towers.
Heroic Abilities
- Wailing Arrow (R)
- Shoot an arrow that explodes for 200 damage and silences enemies for 2.5 seconds. Can be reactivated to detonate the arrow early.
- Possession (R)
- Force an enemy Minion to fight for you. It gains 20% Attack Damage and Health.
Map Battleground Changes
Blackheart’s Bay
- Doubloon Chest status bars are now segmented, and each segment represents when a Doubloon will spawn.
Haunted Mines
- The power difference between Lane Golems has been reduced in situations where there is a large skull-count disparity.
- High skull-count Lane Golem Health has been slightly reduced.
- The first round of Lane Golems have had their Health reduced.
Garden of Terror
- Movement Speed reduced to equal Hero Movement Speed
- Overgrowth (W)
- Overgrowth Health increased by 25%
- Now receives additional Health bonuses past the 15 minute mark
- Now deals 70 (+7 per minute) damage each tick to Minions and Mercenaries instead of 20% of their Maximum Health. This is the same as the Structure damage.
Sky Temple
- Temple damage reduced by 10%
Mercenaries
- Mercenary initial and scaling XP has been reworked.
- Mercenary Camp tooltips now indicate which Camps can be Bribed.
Structures
- Gate, Tower, Town Hall, and Wall Health reduced by approximately 10%.
There's also a bunch of stuff about the UI and art and also individual hero changes, of which there are a lot. You can read them here.
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SoCal, USA3955 Posts
Defiantly curious how Sylvanas plays out. :D
Gate, Tower, Town Hall, and Wall Health reduced by approximately 10%.
This seems kinda unnecessary.
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I'm guessing to try and promote split a touch? Dunno. Seems like it'll still just have 5 people zerg it down 10% faster.
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Well I hope that Tomb of the Spider Queen ends up replacing one of the other "collect stuff to summon something" maps.
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Shit. Valla's best talent, Battle Momentum, was just removed.
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Katowice25012 Posts
I'm sad about that too but Valla was so strong it's probably necessary
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8748 Posts
But Searing Attacks is one of the most fun talents and now the choice is easy!
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Alot of people are clamoring on the lack of illidan nerfs, i think blizzard is being more long term focused when not nerfing illidan (assuming its not missing from the patchnotes like thrall last time). Illidan requires 2 supports or atleast 1 support and 1 hybrid to sustain, so you kind of count on illidan to do the dmg of 1and half dps. Sylvanas with 2.5 sec silence hurts illidan alot, increased jaina burst dmg will also threaten diving illidans, and blizzard mentioned introducing new heroes to help debuffing alot of healing (im expecting a warrior like Varian or something with mortal strike that applies healing debuffs). I think blizzard expects illidan to be more or less balanced in the long term, not necessarily in the current meta, if he is OP at all.
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I wonder if since battle mo was taken from Valla if Q build with reset on vault/double vault may be viable.
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I've seen a bunch of people pick Caltrops for Valla's level 7 talent. I've never found it useful though.
Should I use Caltrops or Searing Attacks?
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On March 24 2015 23:49 Icysoul wrote:
Alot of people are clamoring on the lack of illidan nerfs, i think blizzard is being more long term focused when not nerfing illidan (assuming its not missing from the patchnotes like thrall last time). Illidan requires 2 supports or atleast 1 support and 1 hybrid to sustain, so you kind of count on illidan to do the dmg of 1and half dps. Sylvanas with 2.5 sec silence hurts illidan alot, increased jaina burst dmg will also threaten diving illidans, and blizzard mentioned introducing new heroes to help debuffing alot of healing (im expecting a warrior like Varian or something with mortal strike that applies healing debuffs). I think blizzard expects illidan to be more or less balanced in the long term, not necessarily in the current meta, if he is OP at all.
They are also adding stuff that persists through Unstoppable. The big dig with Illidan is he could gain unstoppable frames very easily to shrug off damage and effects. I wonder now if Jaina could be a counter play to Illidan first pick.
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And Stitches, the other character I like playing the most, got nerfed too. The change to Slam to remove its stun is actually huge, because Stitches was very good at interrupting channeling heroes while tanking in battles.
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Copying my post from general thread:
Wow, some nice changes in this patch.
Like the Murky changes a lot, especially the new talent and Pufferfish's cast time reduced by 75%(!).
Nazeebo took a hit which is ok in my book even though he is one of my most played heroes. However, Gargantuan will remain close to useless as long as you aren't able to control him like Kerrigan and Jaina can control their summons.
Viking's new talent won't do much in my opinion, upgraded Boat or their trait is a lot more valuable. They didn't get a big nerf at all, which is a bit strange.
Stitches got hit quite a bit(and like I proposed his both ultimate upgrades on level 20 got buffed, I don't think that it is enough but it is a good start) and even though he is my most played hero, he definitely deserves it.
Valla is nerfed but it doesn't affect me that much.
Uther and Zeratul nerfs were very much needed, finally!
Some nice stuff like Hardened Shield for ETC, and new Jaina-only talent(didn't play her more than to level 5 so I don't know how much it will affect her gameplay). Can't comment on the rest since I didn't play them much or at all.
Overall really nice patch, I like it.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Wait I thought spider queen was 2 lanes? Now it is 3! That is way better.
I wonder if we'll get a 4 lane map at some point.
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I have to give up Healing Ward and Trueshot Aura to make a Ranger build with Tyrande now? Thanks Blizzard for making the heroes more one-dimensional.
I'm not really sure what they're trying to accomplish. Pre-patch I see three main build variations: Support style with ranger, support style with Ranger's Mark and the less useful auto attack build. Ranger is now less interesting, auto attack is now weaker until level 20 because of delayed and nerfed Trueshot Aura.
Sure they might increase variety on level 7 because the range increase on E might be a bit easier to give up than TA. On level 13 the two strongest talents were Lunar Blaze and Shrink Ray, now only one is left.
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Abathur: I like! But i think the monstrosity, that was already the preferential ultimate for most, was buffed more. Mine changes are great though.
Valla: I saw it coming and i think its good. A clean nerf, just remove the OP talent. Now we have choices on level 7, mine might be caltrops unless i want auto attack stuff (even when playing multishot i think manticore and nexus frenzy are still good) And Q build might be more viable now.
Murky: "cool! meh... uhm... wut a nerf?... mehh...Pufferfish casting time reduced by 75% me...EH?!" its a nice buff.
Uther and Tyrande: will have to play to figure out.
Despite my anxiety to have a more balanced game, i like how they are fixing underused/overused talents and trying to improve talent trees and inconsistencies as a priority. Tychus and Sonya receiving unique names for unique talents are good examples. Same goes for Gargantuan, Ultralisk, Lightining Breath and Lili ultmates improvements. Some things are not supposed to be part of gameplay difficulty or balance matters, that includes lack of control and stupid AIs.
Bugs and UI improvements are always very welcome too, but its something that must be mentioned if its not done. Anyway, nice job.
Monthly patch change mindpuck award goes to... ETC!!! Remove that silly Fury of the Storm that does not fit him, cool. Give hardened shield to help the cow! what? But its ok, consistency and good design comes first.
And nice change to healing ward! is it enough? not sure but i like it anyway.
Random_0: Stitches is a hooker and a tank, if he is able to stun too its prolly too much for one hero. So i like the change.
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I very much dislike the zeratul nerfs, as he was already a niche pick and was pretty useless vs 2+ healer comps, or even healer + tass.
Making hammer more squishy is definitely a good change.
Etc getting storm shield is kinda a buff? If hes running stage dive he doesn't need the blink. Not sure if people were taking the auto attack damage. Stackign storm shields (4+) on a team gets really silly, might see it more with this.
Really surprised about 0 zagara changes/nerfs. She is really really strong right now.
Falstad getting a bit more base damage, meh, the spell casting smoothing change/preventing canceling might be really huge for him, have to play it to find out.
Battle Momentum removed from valla, good change, now wont be quite as strong to just shotgun multishots with no aim.
No Lost Viking exp soaking changes, makes me sad... that hero is just straight up broken. (The change I want to see is each Viking counting as 1/2 a hero for soaking purposes.)
Stiches losing his ministun hurts, also losing some slam damage on that build.
I guess thats why so many diablos ulted in a really bad direction XD.
Nazeebo got nerfed, good, his ult was kinda interupt or lose.
Illidan got no nerfs, kinda surprising, he is really really strong right now, especially vs uncoordinated teams.
Too many uther changes to parse, apparently he got nerfed, meh.
I hate Murky as a concept so I dislike any buffs to him, as people might pick him more.
No Tychus nerfs, makes me sad.
Healing ward nerf good, same healing over more time.
Sylvanas probably going to be OP for a patch or two before they tune her, fun fun.
Anuburak getting cheaper means we will probably see alot more of them, he seems to be unpopular but pretty strong right now, won't be surprised if he starts getting picked alot more.
Mines changes very good, will be nice to stop snowballs.
Delaying time to 10 will make the 2nd temple on sky much less snowbally - usually one team has 10 the other doesnt so they get it for free, now it will be fightable.
Overall, pretty conflicted about this patch.
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With Zeratul getting nerfed, melee assassins are in a rough spot right now overall. The only exception is Illidan, due to all of his damage mitigation. The risk/reward calculations for Zeratul, Kerrigan, and Thrall all seem a little off.
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I don't mind the Slam nerf, a huge AoE stun with low cooldown was clearly OP... but why on earth do they need to nerf his survivability? That's 10% less hp for a tank that doesn't have a reliable escape. 
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8748 Posts
I just tried out Sylvanas. She seems like she'll be really fun and possibly OP.
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urgh they killed the big thread.
I think the lower health on structures is to speed up the game. Or keep it the same speed after they nerfed the objectives that only go after structures.
I think they really want to stick to their game duration that slowly increases when people get better at not dieing.
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Katowice25012 Posts
Someone tell me if Sylvanas is good I don't want to do the legwork myself
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On March 25 2015 01:18 Heyoka wrote:
Someone tell me if Sylvanas is good I don't want to do the legwork myself
Well, through some dark arts, Nony has tried her and given her his seal of approval.
From my perspective, her kit looks more than solid. The only question in my mind is whether she does enough damage. I suspect that she does.
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Everyone seems to be focusing on her Possession ult as well but I think her second ult sounds absolutely terrifying
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On March 25 2015 01:34 Tenks wrote:
Everyone seems to be focusing on her Possession ult as well but I think her second ult sounds absolutely terrifying
Yeah, that's the one that I am interested in. Serious initiation potential there.
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What is the mechanic if you silence a hero currently channeling an ability? Like say ETC is moshing and you explode your arrow on him. Does it end his ult?
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On March 25 2015 01:40 Tenks wrote:
What is the mechanic if you silence a hero currently channeling an ability? Like say ETC is moshing and you explode your arrow on him. Does it end his ult?
Yeah, I think so.
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The AOE ranged silence might be the answer against double support and Illidan.
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So what are your guys' thoughts on the new healing ward? Still a mostly must-pick talent in most cases or does it make many of the level 4 options more attractive?
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Healing ward imo is still better. It heals everybody on your team and that helps.
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8748 Posts
I also just want to note for the record that I had 80% win with Jaina before these buffs (20-5) playing solo queue in Hero League. There was already a trickle of Jaina players building into a steady flow the past few weeks. Now here comes the flood.
The best way to deal with Illidan is still gonna be stuns, polymorph, silences and roots. Jaina can provide big burst damage on him, and him being unable to avoid being Chilled will certainly help, but a Jaina who isn't getting help is an Illidan target, not an Illidan counter.
Several changes have been implemented which will prevent the cancellation of Ability casts when issuing Move commands, as well as when attempting to cast several Abilities in rapid succession.
Additionally, these changes will result in heightened input responsiveness for most Ability casts.
This is going to be the most important change in the whole patch, easily. I think the whole "this game feels clunky" thing that has been going on since the alpha is going to be swept away quite a bit here. I'm guessing that anyone who tried it early on and didn't like the feel is gonna want to try it again with this patch. We'll see though. Different heroes are gonna benefit from this different amounts so every hero is gonna be worth playing and reevaluating.
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8748 Posts
On March 25 2015 01:43 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 01:40 Tenks wrote:
What is the mechanic if you silence a hero currently channeling an ability? Like say ETC is moshing and you explode your arrow on him. Does it end his ult? Yeah, I think so.
Definitely. The preview video shows it being used to stop a Nazeebo ult.
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On March 25 2015 01:56 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 01:43 xDaunt wrote:On March 25 2015 01:40 Tenks wrote:
What is the mechanic if you silence a hero currently channeling an ability? Like say ETC is moshing and you explode your arrow on him. Does it end his ult? Yeah, I think so. Definitely. The preview video shows it being used to stop a Nazeebo ult.
Yep, forgot about that.
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What do you guys think of the Murky changes?
I like them. I've been saying for a while that most people I see play Murky aren't doing a very good job at his supposed mechanic of "Plant an egg near the team fight and just keep coming" style gameplay. Rarely did I see people move eggs even on high level streams. This makes it so there is very, very little downside to doing this assault style gameplay. It could be fun. Will he be good enough to be used in competitive? Maybe. Probably not. But still a good move forward from being trash tier to at least useable.
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Turning into zombie while waiting for patch.
Brains... must have brains.
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Too bad they didn't touch Brightwing and Muradin. They seem to stand at opposite ends of the spectrum.
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I played a lot of Murky last week, so much that I now use the Golden Murky as my portrait! Although I am extremely excited for this major patch, I'm really sad that I won't get to try out the new Murky changes.
One of the biggest challenges I encountered while playing as Murky included how to regain my HP if my fountain was on cooldown. The thought was to either teleport back to heal or to just go back into the fight to die and respawn since that's much quicker overall. I also really like the faster cooldown on egg placement. Previously if my egg was found and destroyed, it would remove me from fighting for a long time. Then once I found a new hiding spot for my egg, I often found myself just standing there waiting for the cooldown to end.
The Slime damage working on Grave Golems is a really big bonus too. I always felt as though I wasn't pull my weight when defending against the Boss or trying to help my team take a Boss.
The large cooldown on the Pufferfish spell is HUGE. The damage from a Pufferfish is so high that I wanted to be using it all the time, but the cooldown was excruciatingly long.
Bring back Free Murky Week!!
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I would say the healing ward got better for fighting around a position. While healing up after a fight got weaker. So I would say they are even better now at what people disliked about them.
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wow, really like Sylvana. She kinda feel a bit OP but time will tell.
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On March 25 2015 02:59 FeyFey wrote:
I would say the healing ward got better for fighting around a position. While healing up after a fight got weaker. So I would say they are even better now at what people disliked about them.
Healing Ward is pretty much a straight nerf. 3 * 10 == 2 * 15. I can't think of any scenario where you'd rather have HP later than HP now.
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On March 25 2015 02:57 kingjames01 wrote:
The Slime damage working on Grave Golems is a really big bonus too. I always felt as though I wasn't pull my weight when defending against the Boss or trying to help my team take a Boss.
That seems to be a quality of life / bug fix that things immune to status effects don't prevent you from gaining damage bonuses. I noticed Jaina got the same thing for her trait.
Once patch is up I'll be curios to see if Illidan's invincibility frames during Sweeping Strikes were stealth removed, they were stealth added after all, so I kind of assume it's a bug anyways.
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Yeah, Sylvanas is going to be good. She has a ton of mobility and does quite a bit of damage. And of course she pushes like a beast.
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I'm watching qxc play possession syl but I can't quite seem to figure out if he gets the minion XP when he possesses it. It would make the skill kind of meh if you lose out on XP and also donate it back to the enemy.
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Katowice25012 Posts
New UI feels a ton better to me I never liked that old one
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Sylvanas is so much fun! The mobility is so rewarding to use. People also don't expect the damage of her q
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On March 25 2015 04:16 Tenks wrote:
I'm watching qxc play possession syl but I can't quite seem to figure out if he gets the minion XP when he possesses it. It would make the skill kind of meh if you lose out on XP and also donate it back to the enemy.
What? You are not killing the minion, you are literally stealing it and giving it 20% HP and damage. I don't see the reason why you should get the experience.
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8748 Posts
You get exp. And I assume the enemy team doesn't. I just tried possession it's so bad omg. I don't understand how it could ever be preferable. You can't stand around possessing minions -- that's such a waste of time. So what it amounts to is you get to steal 1 and maybe 2 minions every time you shove a wave. And if you want the privilege of possessing a merc at lvl 20, you have to not get blink. And again, you're only gonna be able to possess one of the two (or four). Compare that to having a ranged aoe silence + nuke... no thanks. If Sylvanas was a horrible pusher, maybe possession would make sense. But her basic abilities are good for pushing. And building for pushing (which you think possession would be a part of) means that you're faster at killing minions, which makes possession worse. I don't know about it.
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Did anyone else not get their full gold? I'm level 40 and I only got $6,000 when I should have got $10,000 after the patch.
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On March 25 2015 03:43 xDaunt wrote:
Yeah, Sylvanas is going to be good. She has a ton of mobility and does quite a bit of damage. And of course she pushes like a beast.
BTW, here's her talent list for those of us stuck working instead of playing =(
http://www.heroesnexus.com/heroes/47-sylvanas
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On March 25 2015 04:32 DomiNater wrote:
Did anyone else not get their full gold? I'm level 40 and I only got $6,000 when I should have got $10,000 after the patch.
Play a game first.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Meh, i don't like the new interface.
It has super cool stuff, like the transitions, which look top quality, but in general feels like a downgrade for me
I already saw the first fail of this enw interface: You can't see some full character models/buy animations because of the bar at the top -.-
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"Will of the forsaken", OMG?
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Does Overflowing Quiver seem like a lackluster talent? If you simply remember to fire off a Withering Arrow every time you are about to hit 5 stacks, this talent won't do anything.
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On March 25 2015 04:32 DomiNater wrote:
Did anyone else not get their full gold? I'm level 40 and I only got $6,000
I would take $6000 over 10000 gold any day of the week
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After one play through on the map I gotta say I'm digging it. Feels maybe a bit too dark for my liking, but the aesthetic is cool and I think the mechanic is very solid. A lot of fun games to be had!
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I really don't like that they keep Azmodan at the high life that he has. Also, the Murky buffs are just stupid.
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On March 25 2015 04:26 NonY wrote:
You get exp. And I assume the enemy team doesn't. I just tried possession it's so bad omg. I don't understand how it could ever be preferable. You can't stand around possessing minions -- that's such a waste of time. So what it amounts to is you get to steal 1 and maybe 2 minions every time you shove a wave. And if you want the privilege of possessing a merc at lvl 20, you have to not get blink. And again, you're only gonna be able to possess one of the two (or four). Compare that to having a ranged aoe silence + nuke... no thanks. If Sylvanas was a horrible pusher, maybe possession would make sense. But her basic abilities are good for pushing. And building for pushing (which you think possession would be a part of) means that you're faster at killing minions, which makes possession worse. I don't know about it.
Yeah, but if you possess the enemy mage, you get an instant regen globe!
I tried possession for a few games and I agree. I think the unstable poison talent that makes minions explode is really good at clearing waves, but if you get possession, it kind of defeats the purpose of that talent. It's hard for me to think of a situation where I wouldn't rather have unstable poison over possession if I was going for a lane-clearing style.
I tried out corruption for one game, and although I'm not sure I would regularly take it as a level 1 talent, I have to say, Sylvanas' attack speed coupled with -2 ammo per shot depletes towers and keeps at a frightening rate.
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Patch looks fun, like how most top heroes got nerfs but not to big. I'd guess etc, tass and rehgar are top choices now as being relatively untouched (although healing ward hurts a bit). I like how most changes are done through the talents, opening up real choices.
Illidan is tough to say, dont think the hero itself was ever broken. Just well positioned. Perhaps double support meta fades a bit now or increase in jaina/sylvanas stomps him.
Besides those though it looks like there are a ton of close choices now though. Especially ranged assassins look close and warriors (except etc then).
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Thank god for Diablo's lightning breath fix. I missed so many times because of that
Also they pretty much remade Uther? holy moly what a list of changes
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Holy shit they changed my Tyrande build quite a bit. It's different but definitely not worst so im cool with it! Also, love the new UI, maps and overall changes. Exciting!
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On March 25 2015 08:26 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Thank god for Diablo's lightning breath fix. I missed so many times because of that
Also they pretty much remade Uther? holy moly what a list of changes
I'm really surprised how much Uther got nerfed. The previewed change to his trait made a lot of sense to me and seemed like a sensible thing. After Uther free week I'm quite sure that Divine Hurricane was stupid broken (it almost fills the entire screen!) so I agree with that too.
But losing sprint is huge! I hope it wasn't nerfed solely because it made initiating with his ult too good, cuz that's what ETC can do with bolt + mosh pit after all. The rest is a lot of digest, can't tell if it's a nerf or buff otherwise.
Interesting enough people seem to want to try out tank Uther now, in true WoW pally style.
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Oh I just realised battle momentum = cd reduction on hit.
That's a pretty huge nerf to Valla I loved that ~30 second strafe cd. It was so well in line with the hero as well, trying to maximize autoattacks.
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Patch issues x.x Technical difficulties, with blank hero-less screens Can't join games, etc.
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So um... Sylvanas is just a free win on mines right now.
Her passive makes it a 5v5+golem, which even with a 50-50 split, is very very hard to deal with.
The towers + keep usually do 75%+ of the golems HP, so without them they can just push it to core.
Whoever picks sylvanas on mines first pretty much gets a free win currently..
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Mexico2170 Posts
Yeah, i was actually thinking about that a few minutes ago. How the fuck will they balance sylvanass on haunted mines? Even with all the golem health nerfs to make people bring it down faster.
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Happy about Uther nerf, it was so annoying to kill him then not be able to do anything about his death rattle.
But man, Tyrande got screwed so hard ;_; how will I play her now?
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On March 25 2015 14:30 Holdenintherye wrote:
Happy about Uther nerf, it was so annoying to kill him then not be able to do anything about his death rattle.
But man, Tyrande got screwed so hard ;_; how will I play her now?
I don't feel like Tyrande got screwed... It's definitely different, though.
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Alright, I think I have my replacement Zeratul build:
1: Seasoned marksman -- This build is more AA-centric. However, I do miss regen master.
4: Gathering power -- I don't really like this pick. The problem is that there's nothing better at this tier.
7: First aid -- I really, really want to take searing arrows, but Zeratul is too damned squishy without first aid.
10: Void prism -- Still 100x better than shadow assault.
13: Assassin's blade -- This is where the damage really starts to kick in. Wormhole doesn't make sense at this spot anymore now that Zeratul's burst damage is nerfed.
16: Berserk -- DAMAGE!
20: Nexus blades -- MOAR DAMAGE!
Surprisingly, I'm finding that the kill times aren't too different than the old double-bomb burst build. Sustained damage over time is definitely much better. The biggest difference is that this build doesn't do as well at cleanup as the burst build. Still, this is definitely serviceable.
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Sylvanas has no mana issues whatsoever, i'd be shocked if they don't change that along with reducing the duration of her ulti silence maybe.
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On March 25 2015 16:30 Serendipityx wrote:
Sylvanas has no mana issues whatsoever, i'd be shocked if they don't change that along with reducing the duration of her ulti silence maybe.
Just tried out Sylvanas against Arthas bot and was *very* surprised to see no mana cost on Withering Arrow. Especially with how fast it fills up that just seems too good.
On March 25 2015 06:02 Chairman Ray wrote:
Does Overflowing Quiver seem like a lackluster talent? If you simply remember to fire off a Withering Arrow every time you are about to hit 5 stacks, this talent won't do anything.
I think there are several situations where you'll fill up charges too fast to react. But I still think Overflowing Quiver is lackluster because those are generally a team wipe or when laning and you won't really miss the lost shot(s).
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Ah the new patch also adds extra rewards. I was confused why i suddenly had extra gold and a stimpack.
It's a bit strange that in the new interface quick match has been put between practice and cooperative. It would be more logical to switch cooperative and quick match around to rank them on competitiveness
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On March 25 2015 11:54 dae wrote:
So um... Sylvanas is just a free win on mines right now.
Her passive makes it a 5v5+golem, which even with a 50-50 split, is very very hard to deal with.
The towers + keep usually do 75%+ of the golems HP, so without them they can just push it to core.
Whoever picks sylvanas on mines first pretty much gets a free win currently..
Can't you just 1-4 with 4 on your own golem lane to counter sylvanas push?
It was a classic mistake before anyway to always go 4-1 even if their team had much better push potential. If the team with the weaker push composition, which is arguably always the case if you don't get sylvanas, just defends their golem lane they should be fine. From what I can tell sylvanas is perfectly beatable during the skull collecting.
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I never thought I would say this after looking at the patch notes, but I enjoy playing the new Uther quite a bit. My base build looks like this:
1- Conjuror's Pursuit
4- Boundless Conviction
7- Situational -- Holy Fire is nice vs Zeratul/Nova, maybe better than clairvoyance. Cleanse vs stuns, wave of light is decent for general healing
10- Divine Storm
13- Shrink Ray, but Holy Shock isn't out of the question
16- Hardened Focus, but Benediction is good for more burst. 40 seconds on the CD makes it slightly too long to spam, but useful for getting off a big heal in a TF if they have burst.
20- Redemption is pretty cool, so I've been picking it every game. With more experience, I may very well go back to Divine Hurricane, which is a beast.
I'm not making any judgements on Uther before/after patch notes, just observing how he is now.
I think he's really fun Uther to play with Boundless Conviction. I think it's better than protective shield. It lets you lane better, it makes it easier to heal a lot of allies, and it increases the distance that you can poke at enemy heroes. Boundless conviction is huge and I was surprised, like I said above, how much fun I had picking the talent and building around it in a variety of ways.
Redemption has potential in the late game. I feel like you can bait pretty hard as Uther, die, heal your team a decent amount with the new and one-dimensionally improved Uther's Ghost, and then you're back in the fight, 10 seconds later, no harm no foul!
Finally, wave of light only costs 65 mana. It is completely spammable if not cast with holy light, which is 90 mana or so. Holy light is what kills your mana pool.
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About the stimpack, is it already running for everyone or will it only start ticking once you've logged in?
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From the wording of the announcement, it started for everyone lvl 10+ the second the patch went live, but I could be wrong (and I found no way to verify this before logging in).
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Uther got stealth nerfed as well, longer cooldowns on his stuns.
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On March 25 2015 21:18 Big G wrote:
Uther got stealth nerfed as well, longer cooldowns on his stuns.
;_; not appreciated. sizable overnerf.
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Vikings are wild on the spider map.
Sylvanas is pretty good, but not overpowered Imo her waveclear and mercing is insanely good, but in fights her best asset is that she disables the defenders advantage and well her ultimate. Damage not so much, but she does fairly good at picking down low heroes, depending on the talents.
She changes the game up big time with her dark arrows her super range chase escape and her Silence arrow, that will probably get a damage nerf. So people really need to get used to that first and they will die less.
I think they will add Mana management to her though. Personally I would make Dark Arrows just like in Warcraft3. Autocast ability that you can turn of to conserve Mana.
I really like her Teleport its super good, but you see where it will be going.
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On March 25 2015 19:42 FeiLing wrote:
About the stimpack, is it already running for everyone or will it only start ticking once you've logged in?
it starts when u log in
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On March 25 2015 21:45 FeyFey wrote:
Vikings are wild on the spider map.
Sylvanas is pretty good, but not overpowered Imo her waveclear and mercing is insanely good, but in fights her best asset is that she disables the defenders advantage and well her ultimate. Damage not so much, but she does fairly good at picking down low heroes, depending on the talents.
She changes the game up big time with her dark arrows her super range chase escape and her Silence arrow, that will probably get a damage nerf. So people really need to get used to that first and they will die less.
I think they will add Mana management to her though. Personally I would make Dark Arrows just like in Warcraft3. Autocast ability that you can turn of to conserve Mana.
I really like her Teleport its super good, but you see where it will be going.
I like the autocast on/off idea, just use the "d" button to toggle. Sounds perfect!
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So, any ideas on how to build Tyrande now? It seems battle momentum is the best pick up at lvl 7 now unless you really need stun range for some reason. This makes me want to play her a bit more auto attack centric relying on her auto attacks to refresh her cool downs fast. Maybe Rangers Mark -> Searing Arrows/Healing ward -> Battle momentum -> Starfall -> Huntress's Fury -> Trueshot Aura/Mending Mark -> Nexus Frenzy/Rewind (if you need tons of stuns).
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On March 25 2015 19:25 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 11:54 dae wrote:
So um... Sylvanas is just a free win on mines right now.
Her passive makes it a 5v5+golem, which even with a 50-50 split, is very very hard to deal with.
The towers + keep usually do 75%+ of the golems HP, so without them they can just push it to core.
Whoever picks sylvanas on mines first pretty much gets a free win currently.. Can't you just 1-4 with 4 on your own golem lane to counter sylvanas push? It was a classic mistake before anyway to always go 4-1 even if their team had much better push potential. If the team with the weaker push composition, which is arguably always the case if you don't get sylvanas, just defends their golem lane they should be fine. From what I can tell sylvanas is perfectly beatable during the skull collecting.
The problem is that for the first golem, the vast majority of the damage that actually kills it is from towers/keeps.
When Sylvanas is pushing with a golem, towers and keeps do 0! damage to it, making it so the golem pushes much farther then before.
A 50 skull golem with Sylvanas is pushing farther then a 100 Skull golem was before, and the first golem got nerfed.
The only real counter is to dive into a 5 vs 5 + golem and win it, but that is really hard to do - Golem stun gives the attacking team the advantage here, rather then towers/keeps giving the defending team an advantage - defenders advantage turns into attackers advantage.
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On March 25 2015 23:27 YouGotNothin wrote:
So, any ideas on how to build Tyrande now? It seems battle momentum is the best pick up at lvl 7 now unless you really need stun range for some reason. This makes me want to play her a bit more auto attack centric relying on her auto attacks to refresh her cool downs fast. Maybe Rangers Mark -> Searing Arrows/Healing ward -> Battle momentum -> Starfall -> Huntress's Fury -> Trueshot Aura/Mending Mark -> Nexus Frenzy/Rewind (if you need tons of stuns).
That's the progression I've been trying. Seems like Blizzard doesn't want the owl build anymore and make tyrande just a ranged dps with a Q heal? Since you have to choose between healing ward or owl talent, where you'll obviously go for the ward instead.
Anyone else think there was a ninja change on the tribute map? I don't know if I was just imagining it, but I swear that as the game went on, you could pick up the tributes faster and faster.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Bisutopia19219 Posts
I'm late to the party. Has anyone mentioned dislike for the new UI? I find them far less intuitive then the old ones.
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I think once you get used to the new UI it is better but it does take a bit of learning and getting used to
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Trying out Thrall again, I just don't get how you can come out alive from a team fight LOL.
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On March 26 2015 02:08 FreeZEternal wrote:
Trying out Thrall again, I just don't get how you can come out alive from a team fight LOL.
I think it requires double supports, with one having cleanse.
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On March 26 2015 02:15 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 02:08 FreeZEternal wrote:
Trying out Thrall again, I just don't get how you can come out alive from a team fight LOL. I think it requires double supports, with one having cleanse.
I wish Thrall's "E" was unstoppable like Illidans LOL
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So I had a chance to try out Stiches post-nerf. The HP reduction was pretty much unnoticeable going tank-build, but it is pretty significant, about an extra-skill shots worth of hp. But tank build is really good.
My damage was way down as I expected. The change to his trait means he loses a lot of passive damage. It's logical that you lose a lot during laning, but I didn't expect the duration / radius nerf to effect my hero damage so much. My damage wasn't garbage by any means, double my support's hero damage in the game I played.
Maybe I'll try going Slam build, I suspect it's still awesome at damage.
Which makes Stiches really well balanced now, you have to spec him into what you want to do and he still excels at whatever you decide that is.
The nerf to Pulverize was justified too imo - it was just way so trivial to stun out channeled effects. Guess it's time to take more Fishing Hook though.
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On March 25 2015 23:27 YouGotNothin wrote:
So, any ideas on how to build Tyrande now? It seems battle momentum is the best pick up at lvl 7 now unless you really need stun range for some reason. This makes me want to play her a bit more auto attack centric relying on her auto attacks to refresh her cool downs fast. Maybe Rangers Mark -> Searing Arrows/Healing ward -> Battle momentum -> Starfall -> Huntress's Fury -> Trueshot Aura/Mending Mark -> Nexus Frenzy/Rewind (if you need tons of stuns).
Playing a couple games i think its a nerf. Altough the buff to Q is noticeable, since i was healing more despite the ward nerf.
My "standard" build right now is:
Ranger Mark -> Healing Ward - Protective Shield is more viable now -> Battle Momentum/Lunar Blaze - BM is not as good with no owl talents, i pick range on E depending on what i wanna stun -> Starfall -> Sprint - since bolt was removed from her, but shrink ray is good too -> Trueshot Aura -> Storm Shield/Rewind.
If you are safe and don't need extra support you can go auto attack build.
Anyway, im still testing stuff, but that is how i think Tyrande is working.
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On March 26 2015 04:33 Wuster wrote:
So I had a chance to try out Stiches post-nerf. The HP reduction was pretty much unnoticeable going tank-build, but it is pretty significant, about an extra-skill shots worth of hp. But tank build is really good.
My damage was way down as I expected. The change to his trait means he loses a lot of passive damage. It's logical that you lose a lot during laning, but I didn't expect the duration / radius nerf to effect my hero damage so much. My damage wasn't garbage by any means, double my support's hero damage in the game I played.
Maybe I'll try going Slam build, I suspect it's still awesome at damage.
Which makes Stiches really well balanced now, you have to spec him into what you want to do and he still excels at whatever you decide that is.
The nerf to Pulverize was justified too imo - it was just way so trivial to stun out channeled effects. Guess it's time to take more Fishing Hook though.
Have you tried Toxic Gas at lvl7? Seems good but I don't remember how it was before (always picked Tenderizer)...
About Tyrande, the radius buff on Lunar Flare seems huge in early game. Can't comment on the rest yet, too much stuff to test. 
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I actually took Savor the Flavor at lvl 7, I got 12 stacks without really trying, ended at 40 hps with amplified healing (so ~15 stacks total). Next time I get Stiches I'll try to get more stacks, early game it's not like I need to be stingy with my Devour so may as well use it on cooldown to get some more stacks.
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Meh I didn't know the stimpack would activate on log-in... I won't have much time to play the next 7 days. Pretty disappointing that they would not let us activate it when we want =(
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On March 26 2015 02:08 FreeZEternal wrote:
Trying out Thrall again, I just don't get how you can come out alive from a team fight LOL.
I've been thinking about a W-heavy build, then maybe you will live?
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That sound when the spider waves spawn on the new map is crazy amirite?
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So... they either stealth nerfed Tassadar's oracle or they stealth buffed Zag's tumors or it's just a bug but Tassadar can't see Creep tumors anymore. Tested it a few times after the encounter just to make sure.
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Loving the patch so far(apart from Sylvanas' pushing power, being able to stun tower and remove 2 ammo per hit at the same time is just stupid, especially with her attack speed).
New map is amazing, played it only once but finally a map where you actually fight constantly for crystals. It is really action-packed and I love those kind of maps.
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For Tyrande I like this build now:
http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/tyrande#h_Ih
Huntress fury at 13 is a reasonable talent, it's like a berserk with a much shorter cooldown, especially with the trait upgrade at level 1 already. Coupled with mark of mending you and your allies can get some good self healing going. And the improved attack speed couples with battle momentum nicely to get your spells of quicker. Rewind at 20 became more of a must now with her longer cd on heal.
Her talents are well designed now and I feel lot's of choices are possible. Healing ward vs shield is close now and if the team already has access to healing ward i'm taking shield now. With the long duration on healing ward you just have too much overlap if you have 2 now.
Lunar blaze and mule are both decent talents at 7 too. Mule dependant on the map of course, but I don't feel her other talents here are that good so i take it more quickly now. The range added by lunar blaze is mostly unneccesary I think with the exception of nazeebo's ravenous spirit.
At level 13 I like sprint and huntress fury both, sometimes even shrink ray. Usually sprint is the best choice I reckon, though like the build above i quite like huntress fury but only if i have the trait upgrade and battle momentum. Shrink ray can be good if you have a prime target for it, like illidan. But sprint is always a nice panic button although tyrande has much less use for it as a chasing tool then heroes like uther and nazeebo, her owl can hit from any range anyway and the stun will often miss anyway if they are retreating and dodging.
Level 16 I'm trying mark of mending for now a lot but i'm not sure how effective it is yet. Shooting star is always fine. Trueshot aura i'm not such a fan off now, it seems a little underwhelming compared to the other talents.
The owl build falls off now mostly. Pierce being at the same spot as shield/healing ward kinda hurts. Also the metagame is still double support I think where poke isn't that interesting usually. Although it has to be mentioned, abathur seems to be making a comeback now. And ranger + rewind into double owl kills abathur on the spot if you hit them both. Quite a nice combo if you have a rehgar in your team to reveal abathur for you with farsight.
It's pretty hard for abathur to evade this too as you need some damn sharp reactions to notice double owl coming your way if you are in symbiote, basically you might as well stay in your base as abathur at that point.
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It seen that Zeratul's shadow assault got nerfed? the range feel shorter than before or is it just me.
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Tried Uther yesterday... I come to the conclusion that Divine Storm isn't that good anymore.
- longer cooldown, higher mana cost
- no Sprint
- can't cast in spirit form
- Divine Hurricane radius nerfed
Has anybody experimented with Divine Shield? Can it be something like Ancestral Healing?
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Thanks for the Tyrande info Markwerf, that looks kinda similar to what I was thinking, will have to try it out. Tyrande definitely seems more flexible now in her builds although owl build getting worse is definitely sad. With Mark of Mending and Shrinkray she could be a strong counter to Illidan if the whole team can focus him.
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On March 26 2015 22:17 Big G wrote:
Tried Uther yesterday... I come to the conclusion that Divine Storm isn't that good anymore.
- longer cooldown, higher mana cost
- no Sprint
- can't cast in spirit form
- Divine Hurricane radius nerfed
Has anybody experimented with Divine Shield? Can it be something like Ancestral Healing?
I've seen it used to great effect on an Illidan, not sure if it's viable outside of a comp specific build like that though.
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So now that Syl has been out a few days what do you guys think? Completely OP?
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8748 Posts
On March 27 2015 02:02 Tenks wrote:
So now that Syl has been out a few days what do you guys think? Completely OP?
If her damage was a little higher and her teleport was a bit snappier, I'd say OP. But she's not godlike and can't force things to happen all on her own unless she's up in levels. When she finds herself in a position to really get the most out of her skillset, she shines. I think people have seen plenty of that and let it stick with them more than when she has issues. When she enables her team to backdoor a base, she seems OP. But can a team really plan to backdoor a base?
I think she's clearly the assassin you want for a pushing comp since she has great poke, shuts down towers, and her ult can be used to help disengage.
Almost every game has had a Sylvanas on both teams and whichever team is winning has the Sylvanas "played properly" which makes her OP, and the losing team just has a shitty Sylvanas player. But that's clearly not a fair assessment. She's got weaknesses and some of the ways people try to play her do not actually work.
I think she's good. I like to build her for hero damage (range on Q, envenom, blood for blood) so that I can help secure kills. I feel like her envenom actually gets used, unlike Jaina envenom where Jaina usually has a good amount of overkill if she's getting the kill at all. Sylvanas damage is low enough that the last few Q's and envenom ticks are necessary for a kill. Anyway I think she can bring enough damage when built for it to fulfill the damage role, and then her ult and her passive are just icing on the cake.
Also note that a lot of people getting the impression that her passive is OP for killing bases are also being influenced by the structure health reduction that came with this patch. It's like everyone has an 11% damage buff against structures. We need time to reevaluate our ideas about the difficulty of killing structures.
edit: Cold Dagger (gives Shadow Dagger a vulnerability debuff) is gonna be better than Blood for Blood for damage in a lot of cases, and can generally help with pushing. I'd say it's probably the default talent choice if you can rely on your team for anything and you don't need Will of the Forsaken to take care of yourself. I wish Windrunner (can cast Haunting Wave twice) was easier to get because I feel like that's a fun playmaking talent that is gonna be passed over a lot.
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Hard to say sylvanas is OP, don't think so so far but people are adjusting to her still.
For example rarely do i see people open with her correctly, I think you always want to be picking a tower and bumrush that with 4 or even 5 people. If the other team doesn't respond correctly the tower is down before their team even get's there. Or with corruption build you can drain both towers at least before they get there, although I think the range on Q build is a bit better overall so far. Enemy team really has to respond well to handle this I feel on some maps where lanes are further apart.
For the rest she seems fine if the other team makes sure to keep an eye on her, she can be damned good at pushing if she happens to be slightly pushing a lane. Also she can be tricky to play since I feel the best build on her is with Follow Through, which has basically near 100% uptime if you time the Q well but takes some getting used too.
Overall hard to say if she is broken, the pushing potential she adds while still being a good teamfight hero is quite big. I would guess a little too strong but we'll see, blizz tends to like making new units / heroes a little too strong so people actually play them and then tune them down afterwards.
Overall i think she is a top pick now along with ETC and Rehgar. They are just clearly best in their role now of tank and healer respectively. Illidan is the only viable melee assassin now and still good but it's harder to get a good comp around him I feel so I don't like taking him first. Tass and Tyrande are both pretty sweet too now. Ranged dps I feel a whole range of heroes are quite close and the preference depends on map and synergy now, all of them except raynor and nova can be good.
For composition I like double support, tank, ranged dps and 1 extra, like illidan, a second ranged dps or even a third support.
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If the Sylvanas players stop putting themself in a position where they go to deep and rely on their teleport to get out. Banshee is a straight line teleport, its hard to escape if someone with a straight line stun is near your old position.
It is really easy to get a stun on her after the first teleport with Mura.
So I agree people concentrate on what she is good at. Oh lets help Sylvanas clear this lane ... err nvm. Damn Sylvanas gonna Banshee chase me and make a needle pooch out of me by holding Q.
For team fights i think she just has a supportive role Imo. Silencing, picking off weak heroes, reducing the defenders advantage. Doing a bit of damage.
She fits perfectly in the current game situation owns what people think is good an dies super easy to less used heroes.
I find Murky scary on the other hand. You are alone there is a murky ... then there are 2 puffer fish beside you ... you are slimed and he is octo grabbing you and you realize a Baby just facerolled you and then you are gone for 60 seconds.
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I think that she is fine when considering team fight potential, but her pushing ability is too strong if you build her for it in my opinion. I wouldn't call her OP or broken though, but her trait + ammo destroying talent + her AoE spells sound a bit ridiculous when they are combined.
As Nony said, there is no point in ever taking her Possession ultimate with how good she is pushing. I'm guessing that her ultimate(or talents + abilities) will be changed soon.
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Anyone else having a big freeze at the beginning of the game the first time people cast their skills since the patch ? I freeze for like 2-3 seconds then no problem for the rest of the game. Happens almost every game, pretty annoying.
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On March 27 2015 03:35 RouaF wrote:
Anyone else having a big freeze at the beginning of the game the first time people cast their skills since the patch ? I freeze for like 2-3 seconds then no problem for the rest of the game. Happens almost every game, pretty annoying.
Yes. According to bnet/reddit it is when Sylvannas first casts her W. Since she is in 100% of all games that is why most people think it happens 100% of the time.
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Mexico2170 Posts
I dont think silvanas is broken. She is good, but has very clear dissadvantages, his escape isn't as good, and she is very squishy. His trait can be problematic, but I don't think she pushes a lane faster than say, azmodan. She is indeed a very good hero, though, and I hope they don't Nerf her, maybe out a little man a cost on his Q.
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I don't think she's broken yet. We'll see what happens when pro's play her. Her trait *might* be problematic if you build a comp around it. But I would assume any fix would be along the lines of what they did with Azmodan's dunk damage getting capped.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_folder_media/gf/GFQ6W823BRUL1427143526654.jpg)
