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So, there was already a thread on TL about the suicide of this man, Roh Moo Hyun. Pretty shocking stuff. But after the initial reports came out, all of which showed that it was a suicide, some very strange stuff has come up.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/05/113_45734.html
For one thing, the only guy with him at the time was his bodyguard. That man has apparently changed his story several times, and now admits that he was NOT with Roh Moo Hyun when he jumped.
Next is the body. They wasted no time at all in cremating the body, even though you'd expect that for a case like this they'd want to examine it carefully to eliminate any possibility of murder.
Then there's the suicide note, and will. Well, they were both written on his computer, and according to law, a will that's written on a computer is not legally binding. Roh Moo Hyun was a lawyer for many years, and should have known that. And no one saw him actually write them.
But wait, it gets worse. Who's the suspect here? None other than the current president, Lee Myun Park. He controls virtually all the major media in Korea, and he was behind most of the investigations which ruined Roh Moo Hyun's reputation. He also imprisoned many of Roh Moo Hyun's family and friends. Since Roh Moo Hyun was considerably more popular than Lee Myun Park, he would have both the motive and the means to get rid of his rival like this.
Normally I hate conspiracy theories like this. I don't believe that Bush organized 9/11, or that LBJ killed Kennedy, or any of that stuff. But this story really bothers me. What makes it a lot more believable is when you read about the poltical history of Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_Korea
I can't believe how many dictators, military coups, and assassinations they've had in just 60 years.
So what have you guys heard about this? My Korean ability sucks, so I'd love it if some of the Korean speakers here on TL could tell me what people there are saying about this.
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Wait, the current President of S. Korea has family and friends of a (then) political opponent in prison...? I am assuming they were related to what the former President was being accused of such as bribery etc.
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yes, he ordered them jailed for their part in the corruption scandals surrounding the former president.
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United States10774 Posts
wow uh i am not sure what to think of this...
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Sounds like murder to me but its possible otherwise, so long as esports continues and the country is well taken care of it doesn't bother me TOOO much although it is wrong to just kill someone for power, hope it doesn't affect to many people
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Hmm.... this sort of things remind me of something once upon a time...
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On May 27 2009 14:49 Space[Fright] wrote:
Sounds like murder to me but its possible otherwise, so long as esports continues and the country is well taken care of it doesn't bother me TOOO much although it is wrong to just kill someone for power, hope it doesn't affect to many people
well, if this is true I think it's quite possible that the country could plunge into rioting (which has happened there before) or possibly even a revolution. I don't think many people will be thinking about esports if that happens...
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hey, this actually seems like a legit conspiracy for once! J C Denton to the rescue...
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
Some other odd things I heard:
- there was no blood around his head on the floor, even though his head was completely bashed in
- he presumably made it up the hill himself (?) in his bad physical health, which is unlikely
There were more but I forgot...
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United States20661 Posts
Seemingly legit conspiracy theory for once!
Travis to the rescue!
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i suspect the murderer could be the bodyguard who type his will on the computer as he cant imitate his handwriting on paper.
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TL dominates the internet.
Next = TL dominate politics/conspiracies?
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
I believe it as a case of political indirect murder.
In addition to what the OP and Smix said, there has been many other odd factors that points to this case being a murder instead of a suicide.
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United States10774 Posts
what are some other factors? this is pretty...crazy lol
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On May 27 2009 15:31 konadora wrote:
I believe it as a case of political indirect murder.
In addition to what the OP and Smix said, there has been many other odd factors that points to this case being a murder instead of a suicide.
Please post some. It's very hard to find english language sources for this. In fact, this thread is already one of the top results I get on google.
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Either the will is a red herring, or some conniving bastard forgot to do his homework. If it's the latter, whoever typed the thing must be feeling pretty crappy right now. Anyways I'll be eager to witness how this intrigue or lack thereof unfolds. I just hope that if people are culpable, they don't avoid justice.
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3861 Posts
There was one thing about how the will that was saved on his computer - you know how when you save a document, it usually saves as the first sentence that's written.. well, this one was saved by the 2nd sentence or something..
On several Korean websites, there's a list of different crazy things that's come up, but the government has been taking them down. No freedom of speech here...
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On May 27 2009 15:35 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 15:31 konadora wrote:
I believe it as a case of political indirect murder.
In addition to what the OP and Smix said, there has been many other odd factors that points to this case being a murder instead of a suicide. Please post some. It's very hard to find english language sources for this. In fact, this thread is already one of the top results I get on google.
I'll try to find videos, I watched in on TV so...
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On May 27 2009 14:57 Last Romantic wrote:
Seemingly legit conspiracy theory for once!
Travis to the rescue!
im glad i impress u so much
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you don't believe in the 9/11/kennedy conspiracy theories yet you think this one is more serious? what makes this one so much more believable? you've mentioned how the media plays a big role in this particular case which happens to be the same with all conspiracies just like the damn moon hoax.
Would it be more believable if i told you that prior to Kennedy's assassination he was about to sign a treaty where the US will not go to war ever again?
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On May 27 2009 17:46 BalliSLife wrote:
you don't believe in the 9/11/kennedy conspiracy theories yet you think this one is more serious? what makes this one so much more believable? you've mentioned how the media plays a big role in this particular case which happens to be the same with all conspiracies just like the damn moon hoax.
One big difference is that Lee Myun Park really does control most of the media there. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's just a fact. Like lilsusie mentioned, they keep shutting down any website that tries to report about this. Also, the political history of South Korea is so violent, that this kind of thing is not entirely unprecedented there.
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I have no comment on murder conspiracies but it always surprises me how far the S. Korean government is allowed to go with suppressing free speech in whats considered a modern democracy
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On May 27 2009 14:57 Last Romantic wrote:
Seemingly legit conspiracy theory for once!
Travis to the rescue!
Haha!
On May 27 2009 17:46 BalliSLife wrote:
you don't believe in the 9/11/kennedy conspiracy theories yet you think this one is more serious? what makes this one so much more believable? you've mentioned how the media plays a big role in this particular case which happens to be the same with all conspiracies just like the damn moon hoax.
Would it be more believable if i told you that prior to Kennedy's assassination he was about to sign a treaty where the US will not go to war ever again?
There's so many huge holes with 9/11 theories (like, how do you convince the several thousand operatives that it would take to pull it off that cool to mass murder thousands of US civies and destroy some iconic landmarks), it's hilarious.
The really odd circumstances of his suicide, coupled with a history blatant power grabs by certain groups and supressing of the news (the US tends to at least be a little more covert), lends at least a little credibility to this.
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As usual, the evidence is incredibly ambiguous and manipulated to make it look in the favor of a conspiracy.
For one thing, the only guy with him at the time was his bodyguard. That man has apparently changed his story several times, and now admits that he was NOT with Roh Moo Hyun when he jumped.
He's a bodyguard, he's supposed to stay with the former president, if he comitted suicide this makes him look kind of bad. If it was a big government conspiracy they would've made damn sure his story would've been consistent. Ofcourse you can argue that they intentionally made his story inconsistent, so this indicates nothing. The only argument here is that it does not necessarily prove suicide, which again is ambiguous because they would've done a better job at making it look like a suicide if they wanted to.
Next is the body. They wasted no time at all in cremating the body, even though you'd expect that for a case like this they'd want to examine it carefully to eliminate any possibility of murder.
I'm pretty sure they never waste time cremating / burying someone, you know, especially one that's lying at the bottom off a cliff, what do you expect to find? Trauma from shoving? Good luck finding that on someone who fell down a fucking cliff. Not only does the plot involve the bodyguard but now it involves the cremation service as well. Hardly trained government people who you'd expect to be silent. Unless the cremation service was a coverup, notice how you can make anything like a conspiracy as long as you leave out the ridiculous implications?
Then there's the suicide note, and will. Well, they were both written on his computer, and according to law, a will that's written on a computer is not legally binding. Roh Moo Hyun was a lawyer for many years, and should have known that. And no one saw him actually write them.
Please explain why formal etiquette is important for someone who is involved in a huge messy fraud situation and about to commit suicide. Again, why wouldn't they just fabricate the will to make it look legit? You think they intentionally left half assed clues for a bunch of people behind a computer to pick up on?
But wait, it gets worse. Who's the suspect here? None other than the current president, Lee Myun Park. He controls virtually all the major media in Korea, and he was behind most of the investigations which ruined Roh Moo Hyun's reputation. He also imprisoned many of Roh Moo Hyun's family and friends. Since Roh Moo Hyun was considerably more popular than Lee Myun Park, he would have both the motive and the means to get rid of his rival like this.
Why would he kill the man he's spent so much time investigating? What is his motive? If anything he drove him to suicide indirectly. I'm pretty sure Roh Moo Hyun had no chance of ever succeeding in politics again (then again Berlusconi is still in power so anything is possible). The rivalry motive is laughable, if he really does control the media it would be easy for him to get re-elected.
Motive for suicide: Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge, there are a LOT of people who would've in his situation. You honestly think the current president would risk losing everything with such a weak motive?
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On May 27 2009 23:39 Frits wrote:lawyer-esque analysis
phoenixwright-thinking ftw
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9/11 theory - true
kennedy - false
this one - true
i asked god
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On May 27 2009 23:49 niteReloaded wrote:
9/11 theory - true
kennedy - false
this one - true
i asked god
oh thanks for clearing it up now i can rest easy
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I'm certainly not saying that there's enough evidence at this point to prove it was a murder. I'm just saying, it's a rather weird situation, and apparently the official line is "it was a suicide, case closed, no need to investigate further. At this point, the only hard evidence that it WAS a suicide is the typed note which could have been written by anyone.
On May 27 2009 23:39 Frits wrote:
He's a bodyguard, he's supposed to stay with the former president, if he comitted suicide this makes him look kind of bad. If it was a big government conspiracy they would've made damn sure his story would've been consistent. Ofcourse you can argue that they intentionally made his story inconsistent, so this indicates nothing. The only argument here is that it does not necessarily prove suicide, which again is ambiguous because they would've done a better job at making it look like a suicide if they wanted to.
So if it was a conspiracy, then there wouldn't be any holes in the story? That doesn't make sense. I agree that the bodyguard was most likely just trying to save his own skin here, but it does say for certain that there were NO witnesses.
I'm pretty sure they never waste time cremating / burying someone, you know, especially one that's lying at the bottom off a cliff, what do you expect to find? Trauma from shoving? Good luck finding that on someone who fell down a fucking cliff. Not only does the plot involve the bodyguard but now it involves the cremation service as well. Hardly trained government people who you'd expect to be silent. Unless the cremation service was a coverup, notice how you can make anything like a conspiracy as long as you leave out the ridiculous implications?
I'd expect them to wait at least long enough to confirm that he really did die from falling down a cliff. Someone else here posted that no blood was found at the site, and that he wasn't strong enough anyway to climb a cliff, what do you think of that? You wouldn't need a cremation service conspiracy, because it's not exactly rocket science to burn a body, you know? Whoever kllled him could have done that easily, then just tell people that he was cremated properly and refuse to disclose details.
Please explain why formal etiquette is important for someone who is involved in a huge messy fraud situation and about to commit suicide. Again, why wouldn't they just fabricate the will to make it look legit? You think they intentionally left half assed clues for a bunch of people behind a computer to pick up on?
Eh? It's not a matter of ettiquette, it's a matter of making a will that actually counts, to make sure that his family was provided for. If your will doesn't follow the law, then, guess what? It doesn't count, and your family might be completely screwed. But since it's a rather complicated affair- it's something that you'd expect a lawyer like Roh Moo Hyun to understand, but most other people probably wouldn't know that rule. I don't know why you assume that a conspiracy must be perfect? We're not dealing with prof. Moriarty here.
Why would he kill the man he's spent so much time investigating? What is his motive? If anything he drove him to suicide indirectly. I'm pretty sure Roh Moo Hyun had no chance of ever succeeding in politics again (then again Berlusconi is still in power so anything is possible). The rivalry motive is laughable, if he really does control the media it would be easy for him to get re-elected.
The motive is that Roh Moo Hyun is still very popular, whereas Lee Myung Park is very unpopular. They are from rival political parties. Getting rid of Roh Moo Hyun would get rid of his largest political obstacle. Despite all the investigations, he's been unable to prove anything.
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On May 27 2009 14:56 Smix wrote:
Some other odd things I heard:
- there was no blood around his head on the floor, even though his head was completely bashed in
- he presumably made it up the hill himself (?) in his bad physical health, which is unlikely
There were more but I forgot...
but we all noe how fast false rumors spread in a country that loves their gossip =.=
iono i personally would like it if it was murder because it would save some face but I don't think it to be so... i mean he had a lot of crap fill up his life and lot of krns see suicide as a ez way out of things...
however, maybe he was forced to suicide? like ppl threatening him or w.e.??
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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On May 27 2009 23:39 Frits wrote:
Why would he kill the man he's spent so much time investigating? What is his motive? If anything he drove him to suicide indirectly. I'm pretty sure Roh Moo Hyun had no chance of ever succeeding in politics again (then again Berlusconi is still in power so anything is possible). The rivalry motive is laughable, if he really does control the media it would be easy for him to get re-elected.
Motive for suicide: Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge, there are a LOT of people who would've in his situation. You honestly think the current president would risk losing everything with such a weak motive?
This imo.
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On May 27 2009 14:54 stroggos wrote:
hey, this actually seems like a legit conspiracy for once! J C Denton to the rescue...
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Frits that is the dumbest thing I have ever read.
Too lazy to respond to it all, but I doubt the crematory said no to cremating the president. Usually in high profile things they would wait and determine 100%.
a Fall off a cliff wouldn't disguise needle marks or poisons in the body.
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On May 28 2009 02:33 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 23:39 Frits wrote:
Why would he kill the man he's spent so much time investigating? What is his motive? If anything he drove him to suicide indirectly. I'm pretty sure Roh Moo Hyun had no chance of ever succeeding in politics again (then again Berlusconi is still in power so anything is possible). The rivalry motive is laughable, if he really does control the media it would be easy for him to get re-elected.
Motive for suicide: Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge, there are a LOT of people who would've in his situation. You honestly think the current president would risk losing everything with such a weak motive? This imo.
Only thing that actually made sense.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
This sounds very very interesting, I should talk to my parents about this.
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On May 27 2009 23:27 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 17:46 BalliSLife wrote:
you don't believe in the 9/11/kennedy conspiracy theories yet you think this one is more serious? what makes this one so much more believable? you've mentioned how the media plays a big role in this particular case which happens to be the same with all conspiracies just like the damn moon hoax.
Would it be more believable if i told you that prior to Kennedy's assassination he was about to sign a treaty where the US will not go to war ever again? There's so many huge holes with 9/11 theories (like, how do you convince the several thousand operatives that it would take to pull it off that cool to mass murder thousands of US civies and destroy some iconic landmarks), it's hilarious.
Or like, how the hell would you convince people to imprison/torture/murder millions of their own people?
Wait...
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On May 28 2009 05:58 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Frits that is the dumbest thing I have ever read.
Too lazy to respond to it all, but I doubt the crematory said no to cremating the president. Usually in high profile things they would wait and determine 100%.
a Fall off a cliff wouldn't disguise needle marks or poisons in the body.
Obviously needles and poisons are the way to go when dealing with a sick old man near a cliff. (Note how his bad health has already been stated, would it be likely of him to go there alone without the intent to die?)
And are you seriously so dense that you can't figure out why they performed no autopsy? Because it was a suicide, very obviously so. You think they're gonna cut open someone to satisfy a bunch of dudes on the internet? I was just providing some counterargument to show how easily in favor of a theory the evidence can be presented when not trying to falsify, but instead verify. I am not out there to prove he comitted suicide because it is pointless. The theory only stands because the whole damned thing is a popularity contest, the popular dude was a saint therefore couldn't have killed himself while the impopular dude is evil and therefore killed him, you people watch too much movies.
And the dumbest thing I have ever read is your gpa.
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no signs of trauma sir, except for the falling off a cliff part
quick doctor, alert the internet STAT
Also if you think writing a will correctly is important to someone who is going to commit suicide you really do not understand the mindset of a suicidal person, most of the time they don't even bother to leave a note.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Lets all just discuss the semantics of a political situation we know nothing about and the actions of people we don't know reported by different sources who all have their own agendas!
Yay!
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New theory: Rekrul went clubbing with him and accidentally pushed him off a cliff, and is now actively trying to mislead the internet by stating the theorists' lack of knowledge on south Korean politics.
See how easy it is to come up with these.
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On May 28 2009 07:27 Rekrul wrote:
Lets all just discuss the semantics of a political situation we know nothing about and the actions of people we don't know reported by different sources who all have their own agendas!
Yay!
Hey cmon, play along with my political gossiping, it's fun.
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On May 28 2009 07:03 Frits wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 05:58 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Frits that is the dumbest thing I have ever read.
Too lazy to respond to it all, but I doubt the crematory said no to cremating the president. Usually in high profile things they would wait and determine 100%.
a Fall off a cliff wouldn't disguise needle marks or poisons in the body. Obviously needles and poisons are the way to go when dealing with a sick old man near a cliff. (Note how his bad health has already been stated, would it be likely of him to go there alone without the intent to die?) And are you seriously so dense that you can't figure out why they performed no autopsy? Because it was a suicide, very obviously so. You think they're gonna cut open someone to satisfy a bunch of dudes on the internet? I was just providing some counterargument to show how easily in favor of a theory the evidence can be presented when not trying to falsify, but instead verify. I am not out there to prove he comitted suicide because it is pointless. The theory only stands because the whole damned thing is a popularity contest, the popular dude was a saint therefore couldn't have killed himself while the impopular dude is evil and therefore killed him, you people watch too much movies. And the dumbest thing I have ever read is your gpa.
You are just so retarded... Yep, lets not autopsy people who die for the purpose of CONFIRMING 100% what happened. Especially if there death could be controversial to any extent.
I mean Kennedy got shot, clearly. Was an autopsy necessarily? probably not, unless you wanted to know what he had eaten earlier that day. Heath ledger shows up dead in a hotel room, yeah lets autopsy that and figure out what happened that made him dead.
A political figure supposedly jumps off a cliff in an isolated area, why not double check to make sure its not foul play? Its not a hard concept to understand. I mean come on if even I can understand it.
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I am surprised I always thought South Korea to the liking of the U.S. in terms of Government but apparently the current President has appointed friends etc. to media outlets, and the government even blocks web pages? Wow I am stupid, I need to watch CNN more often I guess =/
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
he was a complete fuckup of a president
just like their current one
corruption money money money!
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On May 28 2009 17:51 Rekrul wrote:
he was a complete fuckup of a president
just like their current one
corruption money money money!
Isn't it like that in every country?
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So I was taking a bus through the heart of Seoul yesterday and I was reminded of just how recently Korea got out of its dictatorial past and into 'democracy'.
The bus cut through City Hall, the place where most of the grieving cermonies took place. And HOLY SHIT was there a lot of riot police. In Korea, riot police come in these special buses which look like this:+ Show Spoiler +
And when they do come.. they don't fuck around with a few buses. They come in a hugeeee fucking convoy. Yesterday (which was the official ceremony of Mr Roh's death) was no exception.
As my bus cut through central Seoul, I saw an endless chain of these buses lining the roads. I lost count... I saw at least 20 and I'm sure there were many more. On every corner of every junction and every underground station exit, there was a squad of riot police present.+ Show Spoiler +I knew Korea wasn't a protest-friendly country but the completely OTT nature of the measures left my mouth open for a good while.
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I don't believe that LMB actually directly killed RMH, but it's blatantly obvious that he has been manipulating whatever he can in order to destroy RMH's character. It was just a grave political miscalculation to let things escalate to the point of RMH's death, as from his death the entire country has risen up with sorrow and rage.
LMB is fucked.
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On May 28 2009 17:51 Rekrul wrote:
corruption money money money!
From what I understand this one line sums up the past few decades of S.Korea's political history.
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On May 28 2009 18:12 rushz0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 17:51 Rekrul wrote:
he was a complete fuckup of a president
just like their current one
corruption money money money! Isn't it like that in every country?
No.
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On June 02 2009 16:18 bias- wrote:From what I understand this one line sums up the past few decades of S.Korea's political history.
lol, more like centuries.
However, the actual general ideas of the government and the public have improved over the past ten years. Yes, there was and still are tons of issues, but they were improving. LMB however, has been reversing a lot of these improvements since he came into office, and the amount of shit that he's creating in the country is just astounding.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On June 02 2009 17:17 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2009 16:18 bias- wrote:On May 28 2009 17:51 Rekrul wrote:
corruption money money money! From what I understand this one line sums up the past few decades of S.Korea's political history. lol, more like centuries. However, the actual general ideas of the government and the public have improved over the past ten years. Yes, there was and still are tons of issues, but they were improving. LMB however, has been reversing a lot of these improvements since he came into office, and the amount of shit that he's creating in the country is just astounding.
qft
LMB basically tossed aside what the previous leaders have worked so hard to build =.="
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I saw that a few people on here were seeking some extra information. I don't have a lot of time at present, but a few additional facts are as follow:
1. After Roh Moo Hyun fell (apparently) from the cliff they (the body guards) picked him up and rushed him to a vehicle to get him to hospital. The nearest hospital in Masan was about 30 minutes away and was their initial destination. The medical team at Masan were prepared to take him in though after 15 minutes they (the body guards) changed their minds and selected a hosptital 2-3 hours away. He was DOA or close to it.
2. The resident doctor, the only professional to see his dead body and the injuries miraculously committed suicide for no apparent reason 2 days ago.
3. The body guards are in hiding (fact), probably fearing for their lives(assumption).
4. The 'official' police investigation began after his body was cremated.
5. LMB was caught smirking Roh Moo Hyun's funeral (just thought I'd throw that one in there)
6. The vast majority of Roh Moo Hyun's righteous acts have been, for the most part, hidden from the media.
7. There were signs of a struggle on the cliff top (e.g jacket was found crumpled well back from the edge of the cliff etc.)
8. From the 6 million dollars of apparent black money we see continuously reported by the English speaking media, 5 million was money given to Roh Moo Hyun's older brother of which Roh Moo Hyun had no knowledge of. He had also asked his brother not to have any business dealings that associated with Roh Moo Hyun's presidency, he wanted no part of it. The other $900,000 was a loan given to Roh Moo Hyun's wife by a friend who had known the family for 20 years. There are contract papers and everything. Roh Moo Hyun did not know of this 'loan' until February this year.
9. The reason the $900,000 loan was taken out by his wife was for them to buy a house, yes, they did not own any house.
10. Roh Moo Hyun could have become a judge in Korea earning a very good living, but opted to help poor people who could not afford legal representation for free as the alternative (before he became president).
And the list goes on and on.
One message to frits; please refrain from making such strong comments from matters you clearly do not understand. It is ok to give an opinion, but I think you went a little overboard without taking the time to understand what is going on here or even what type of person Roh Moo Hyun was. I accept that you may not have had a great deal of information freely at hand, but all the same. That goes for a few other people here too, Rekrul etc. Oh and frits, it's not a bunch of 'dudes' on the internet, the vast majority of the Korean public wanted a proper autopsy but didn't get one. This is typical, LMB was caught admitting on video while giving a lecture to university students about him being the one to begin an internet banking company called BBK in 2001 (or 2002, can't remember). The company went under for major fraud over serious dollars and of course the court dropped the charges for no apparent reason. The other director/s went to jail. This hard evidence (a video I have seen and is still on youtube.) surfaced a week or so before LMB was elected.
Just as a final note, ONE of the things that Roh Moo Hyun did when president that no other president ever did before, was block the standard 6 billion dollar extra bonus payment that usually goes to government workers and instead used it towards regional development, social security and welfare etc.etc. For doing this the whole goverment was outraged (the money is taken by the government out of greed, not necessity). (EDIT: My point here is that this was hardly covered at all by the media)
http://www.seoprise.com/board/view.php?table=seoprise_12&uid=48343 is one link if you like. Can use google translate or something because it's in Korean.
Hope this helps a few people understand a little further.
FlatBoy
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AFAIK, The fact that he got cremated first before anything is that in Korea, if the Prime Minister dies or w/e, you CANNOT investigate his body or whatsoever because of some high level of respect thing
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XDawn - There is no such rule in Korea and unless the immidiate family requests that an autopsy not be conducted they may proceed as necessary. You look and see what would happen if the current president died under the same circumstances, the autopsy and investigation would begin immediately.
For any people who wanted more information about some of the things going on in Korea regarding this case, please see the bottom of page 3 of this topic.
FlatBoy
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Thanks for posting all that flatboy. It's interesting stuff. It's frustrating, though, that no official channels are reporting anything on this, so all anybody has to go on are websites reporting rumors.
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Where are your sources? I can't find anything aside from the investigation being tantamount to murder.
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It's hard to find any stable sources from English newspapers. Most of it was published on Korean news sites (that Lee Myung Bak does not control) and then removed, replaced, removed etc. Some articles were posted on major websites (yahoo, daum, etc) only to disappear after not too long. To give you an idea of how hard it is to get the truth out there, there is a famous TV show in Korea called PD 수첩 (SuChop)(MBC), their producer was jailed not too long ago for running a program that made Lee Myung Bak's governing party 'look bad'. There is also a new show they made recently that was already banned by the government but has made it's way to youtube.com . It is in Korean but the links are here (if it is still there).
http://bbs3.agora.media.daum.net/gaia/do/story/read?bbsId=K161&articleId=110854
I might start recording more of the Korean links so I can give out sources, but it's very difficult as the Korean government are shutting it all down pretty much as fast as it's posted. Many of the facts I posted about what happened around the apparent 'suicide' were from the major news companies before they changed their stories, as things were unfolding. There is also a strong rumour that Roh Moo Hyun had certain files that would reveal Lee Myung Bak's corruption hence another reason to get rid of him. You should be able to find something about the resident doctor that saw Roh Moo Hyun dying about 2 days ago.
Most recent out of Seoul is a professor from Seoul University (best Uni in South Korea) asking for the government to at least apologise for their absolute bungle of the investigation ... as if they didn't do it intentionally.
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By the way, the link to the PD SuChop program banned in Korea is about the corruption and behind the scene happenings the Lee administration is responsible for, not directly linked to the Roh Moo Hyun case but still gives a good example of how they want to cover things up.
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On May 27 2009 14:49 Space[Fright] wrote:
..so long as esports continues and the country is well taken care of it doesn't bother me TOOO much..
...wat?
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What about Korean bloggers and so forth, are they cracked down as much as newspapers etc?
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They are cracked down on, or any of reasonable size (all naver, cyworld, etc). Lee Myung Bak has a very large number of people he pays small money to in order to check what's going on and reply appropriately to internet media. Although it is officially illegal to do this in Korea, he is by no means the only one that does it. Many of the stars do this also in order to bolster their image, fight against bad rumours (which are usually true) and even attack other actors / actresses.
The thing you have to understand about in Korea is that everyone has a national ID number that is used for absolutely everything. I believe the last remaining website in which you didn't need this number to make an ID was yahoo.co.kr, but that is no longer the case. Most places in order to even reply to topics you need to use your number (100% of the time), address, confirmed phone number (occasionally) etc. Therefore, whatever people say on the internet allows them to be tracked down. I remember one ocassion a girl wrote something about what really happened to Roh Moo Hyun on cyworld.com , the information was deleted almost minutes later and she received a direct message from cyworld asking her not to post such information.
Anyway, it goes on and on, but in order to answer your question, yes, bloggers are in exactly the same boat. I have heard rumours of the Korean public forming a group to raise capital in order to take Lee Myung Bak on in court but the government is blocking it. Things are getting a little crazy now that Lee Myung Bak is trying to have a movement passed quickly in parliament that 'would allow the government to have control over what any media company publishes in Korea'. Wouldn't that be just great ....
Here is a link to a paper containing information about what I mentioned last. I'll have to look later for some English report on it, they are very very hard to find due to what is fed out from Korea to the world.
http://www.alacrastore.com/storecontent/oxford/DB151207
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/business/worldbusiness/21seoul.html?_r=1 <-- LMB cleared by 'special prosecutor' and interviewed inside a restaurant!!!
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Asia/Story/STIStory_385304.html
Notice
"Critics said state prosecutors turned the Roh investigation into a national circus by leaking details to the media about humiliating allegations before they had secured evidence." This is what LMB was doing to bring him down, they didn't have any evidence and look at how all of the English reporting media companies are still focusing on the $6million.
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Last link broken. First link costs $150. Probably enough sources out there about intimidation, though.
Unfortunately, without sources on the suicide itself, nobody can take a credible position. I thought the censorship was mostly an internet thing, not other media.
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Has it always been like that, or was that (the crackdown on internet users) a change made by LMB?
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The Korean government always had the ability to crack down on things due to most Korean sites requiring one to use their national ID number. However, the recent ridiculous censorship going on in every facet of the media in South Korea started slightly prior to LMB's presidency. There's a lot of seriously fishy shit going on here.
It's not even the media; LMB is using the police to prevent people from grouping up in Seoul right now, and this can be easily seen in the City Hall area. I'm going to go there again today and take some pictures of how fucking ridiculous this is right now.
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lol nvm, the police retreated from City Hall today. When I got there there were only a handful of police around, nothing like the hundreds and hundreds of cops that were blocking subway exits and blockcading areas and etc like the past week.
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