EPTNorth Korea conducts nuclear test - Page 3
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
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Diomedes
464 Posts
On May 25 2009 13:23 koreasilver wrote: Anyone that thinks North Korea is an actual threat at all are just misinformed. I mean, North Korea of today is the equivalent of a diabetic, epileptic dog that has lost all his teeth. No, that was Iraq where Iraq once had the 8th military in the world but then years later couldn't even control it's own territory anymore. Where not even Kuwait was afraid but the US was trembling in fear. NK can devastate Seoul withh artillery and then sent their 1 million brainwashed soldiers across the DMZ. Won't happen. But if they do it's not going to be pretty. That's why SKorea is always pissed off at the aggressiveness of the US and Japan towards NKorea. You say that NK is just trying to scare world to get more economical help and that fall of NK would economically destroy SK. But tell me one thing - when crazy Kim Jong Il is on his deathbed, what keeps him from one simple order "nuke them with all we got"? Don't you think his mind is sick enough and full of hate to do it? I would be more worried about Kim Jong Il being the only sane person in NK. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6639 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On May 25 2009 14:25 HunterX11 wrote: It will certainly make German reunification look like a picnic, but also remember that the North is resource-rich and the South is the "poor" part of the peninsula. Depends on what resources though, really. The South is much richer in agricultural goods for example. On May 25 2009 14:26 Zato-1 wrote: Do not speak of 'them'. It's 'him', and that is Kim Jong Il. Attention he wants. Help? Not so much. He'd rather be respected and feared than be offered a helping hand and take it. Don't assume he has his nation's best interests in mind just because he's their ruler. Lets just ignore the entirety of the North Korean elite, k. Even if KJI doesn't give a damn about the people, he still wouldn't toss bombs at enemy cities because the moment he does, he'll get fucked up. He'll care enough for his own good to not mess with anyone when his country is not strong enough to fight anyone. On May 25 2009 14:32 jjun212 wrote: i just thought it was because korea sent troops to the middle east to maintain good relations and the US is just honouring that. (even though they had troops there anyway) it'd be rude to take them out? American troops have had a continued presence in South Korea since the Korean War. A fair amount of the South Korean community has disliked the presence of American troops for quite a long while now, but nothing's really changed. On May 25 2009 22:52 Diomedes wrote: No, that was Iraq where Iraq once had the 8th military in the world but then years later couldn't even control it's own territory anymore. Where not even Kuwait was afraid but the US was trembling in fear. NK can devastate Seoul withh artillery and then sent their 1 million brainwashed soldiers across the DMZ. Won't happen. But if they do it's not going to be pretty. That's why SKorea is always pissed off at the aggressiveness of the US and Japan towards NKorea. I would be more worried about Kim Jong Il being the only sane person in NK. And then the South Korean military will take absolute air supremacy and win. I mean, the Northern artillery that can level Seoul, those have been there since like the 80s. Their navy is a joke, their air force is so outdated it's pretty much obsolete. The only thing they have going for them is just numbers; all of their technology is behind by quite a bit. Even on top of that, the new Southern President and government have been aggressive towards the North. The attitude of the Southern government towards the North varies depending on what party is in power. | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 25 2009 16:17 hymn wrote: Now, how did YOU reach that conclusion? It looks to me that Russia is going to stay in this state of a democracy where there is the party of Vladimir Putin unopposed. But the Russians are definitely NOT oppressed like in the 1950's. From what I've seen they look proud and happy to be a strong nation again. They've got freedom of speech and etc. It's not like a man's going to say "Putin sux ass!" and he's going to jail... Well, if you just choose so, you can badmouth Putin all you want. However, if you have some proof of his and his gang's atrocities, you better be careful, otherwise you get shot by "uknown people for unknown reasons", poisoned, or jailed, e.g. Paul Klebnikov, Anna Politkovskaya, Alexander Litvinenko, etc. etc. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On May 25 2009 22:10 hymn wrote: Would you please care to elaborate a bit cause this looks childish to me. Do you have proof about someone actually saying that he hates the Russian government and then the whole system starts to make his life as miserable as possible? I've read articles in some Russian newspapers that don't approve of some moves of Putin and so on. The papers are still alive. I agree, it's not the same level of freedom like in the Western democracies but they do have the right of free speech. Just what i can remember now -> Anna Politkovska murdered, Alexander Litvinenko poisoned and died. Both were critisising Putin and Kreml a lot. Freedom of speech -> recent gay parade, Kasparov arrested during protests toward government. And these are just big name and cases which couldn't be hidden under censorship. | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 25 2009 22:24 HnR)hT wrote: Russia is ruled by a KGB thugocracy. Russians have not come to terms with their historical crimes, and the Russian state promotes official patriotism that deliberately whitewashes Stalin and inculcates nostalgia for the USSR. Russian historiography, at least since the days of Nikolay Karamzin, has encouraged the mentality that the people exist to serve the state and not the other way around. .... All this implies, by the way, that in a matter of decades Russia will no longer be capable of playing its historical role as an ally and protector of Orthodox Christendom, and of Slavic peoples, in the Balkans and elsewhere. It is the conventional wisdom (among those who think about such things for a living) that, if the present trends continue, the 21st century will see Russia in its final death throes. Bah, You will not grasp her with your mind Or cover with a common label, For Russia is one of a kind – Believe in her, if you are able. Russia lived through world's most horrible war, Russia lived through Stalin's shit, Russia lived through communism/socialism bullshit, and you say some puny KGB remnants are now going to kill her? On a serious note, what you say has some merit, but "Russia is going to die" is just emotional/ sensationalist crap by people who, ironically, do that for a living. Russia in a much better state now than it was under Yeltsin, or as the Soviet Union under Khruschev, Brejnev and the like. | ||
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Piste
6181 Posts
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On May 25 2009 23:35 Random() wrote: Bah, You will not grasp her with your mind Or cover with a common label, For Russia is one of a kind – Believe in her, if you are able. Fedor Tiutchev, my 3rd favorite Russian poet (after Pushkin and Merezhkovsky). Good job. Russia lived through world's most horrible war, Russia lived through Stalin's shit, Russia lived through communism/socialism bullshit, and you say some puny KGB remnants are now going to kill her? On a serious note, what you say has some merit, but "Russia is going to die" is just emotional/ sensationalist crap by people who, ironically, do that for a living. Russia in a much better state now than it was under Yeltsin, or as the Soviet Union under Khruschev, Brejnev and the like. It's not sensationalist crap, it's the iron law of demographics. Russians are quite literally dying out faster than any other people. It's a horrible historic injustice, because of the things you mention, but it is true. | ||
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
On May 25 2009 23:47 HnR)hT wrote: Fedor Tiutchev, my 3rd favorite Russian poet (after Pushkin and Merezhkovsky). Good job. It's not sensationalist crap, it's the iron law of demographics. Russians are quite literally dying out faster than any other people. It's a horrible historic injustice, because of the things you mention, but it is true. Their manpower might be dwindling a bit, but that´s not necessarily such a bad thing. The russians as a whole have a lot of land and therefore resources, in a world that needs those resources desperately. Noone can take that land away from a nuclear superpower. If that wealth is distributed well amongst the declining population, the future for the average russian might look bright. | ||
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hymn
Bulgaria832 Posts
On May 25 2009 22:24 HnR)hT wrote: Russia is ruled by a KGB thugocracy. Now that's not nice. I can go on and say that the US is ruled by the banker dynasties like Rothschild and Rockefeller and you can't argue cause we both ain't got proofs. On May 25 2009 22:24 HnR)hT wrote: Russians have not come to terms with their historical crimes, and the Russian state promotes official patriotism that deliberately whitewashes Stalin and inculcates nostalgia for the USSR. Russian historiography, at least since the days of Nikolay Karamzin, has encouraged the mentality that the people exist to serve the state and not the other way around. It is like this - people serving the state. Wasn't it Kennedy who said "Ask not what America has done for you, but what can you do for America"? Wasn't the US army the one with posters "I want you!" in the days of the Vietnam war? The state needs its people and of course the people need the state but I firmly believe that in most states the government is in HUGE debt to its people. Aren't kids in the state taught to go to school and be nice citizens and pay their taxes without asking? On May 25 2009 22:24 HnR)hT wrote: More to the point, the entire immense organism known as "the Russian people," is sick and dying. Russia has even lower fertility rates than the white Europe, coupled with through-the-roof mortality rates due to primitive, underdevoloped health infrastructure and a culture of alcoholism and violence. I took the time to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia］this[/url], please do the same. Looks like they are recovering. On May 25 2009 22:24 HnR)hT wrote: The Putin government, despite superficial and largely symbolic measures, has utterly failed to combat such trends, being instead too busy enriching its individual members (by some estimates, Putin is now by far the wealthiest man in the world) and seeking, desperately and foolishly, to "matter" on the world stage "like in the good old days." GDP of Russia $2.076 trillion (2007 est.) GDP growth 8.1% (2007 est.) Russia matters on the world stage. It's like this - the whole EU is shitting it's pants when Russia says "Fuck you, we cut the gas!". When Russia invaded Georgia much like NATO stated Kosovo's independence what did NATO do? They said "Be nice, guys!". But they did nothing. In fact they left Russia do what Russia wants to do and offered no resistance. More - Russia can and I am sure they are going to veto when Georgia applies for NATO and I am just going to wait and see. And I do believe NATO's going to let them veto and do nothing. Just because Georgia is not worth risking a conflict with Russia. On May 25 2009 22:24 HnR)hT wrote: All this implies, by the way, that in a matter of decades Russia will no longer be capable of playing its historical role as an ally and protector of Orthodox Christendom, and of Slavic peoples, in the Balkans and elsewhere. It is the conventional wisdom (among those who think about such things for a living) that, if the present trends continue, the 21st century will see Russia in its final death throes. Actually the last trends show that Russia is doing good economically. I agree it can all crash down in a matter of years but still claiming that Russia's dying in 30 years is not serious. I mean... I read some article of Zbigniew Brzeziński where he claimed that in the 21 century there would be 5 languages in the world: English (you know where), Russian, Spanish (South America), Deutsch (in Europe!!), Chinese and some African language for Africa. This is clearly going to be wrong. | ||
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
Obey thy God, and never mind, O Muse, the laurels or the stings: make it thy rule to be unstirred by praise as by abuse, and do not contradict the fool. | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On May 25 2009 23:47 HnR)hT wrote: It's not sensationalist crap, it's the iron law of demographics. Russians are quite literally dying out faster than any other people. It's a horrible historic injustice, because of the things you mention, but it is true. Well, I don't see why do you think this trend is bound to continue forever. People have recovered from much worse. | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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RedTerror
New Zealand742 Posts
On May 26 2009 07:55 eMbrace wrote: Really North Korea, launch your nuke. It will probably be a failure, and either way -- North Korea will no longer exist the moment your press the button. Don't worry about the nuke it probably would be a failure? | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
On May 26 2009 08:25 ViruX wrote: Don't worry about the nuke it probably would be a failure? I was being a bit sarcastic. My basic point is, North Korea knows that they will cease to exist the moment they do anything offensive with nuclear weaponry. | ||
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