EPTOn May 12 2011 21:54 Sablar wrote:
I'm guessing this was the lowest instance of court in germany?
I'm guessing this was the lowest instance of court in germany?
Yes it is.
There are two more above.
89 y/o accused of 29k counts accessory to murder - Page 16
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DorN
Germany90 Posts
Yes it is. There are two more above. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
Are sentences concurrent in Germany? I know in canada no matter how many counts of robbery you are convicted for if you are convicted for 20 lets say in one trial and the penalty is 10 years you serve 10 years for all counts of robbery. The 3rd point the defence is making about previous trials - did the israeli trial get thrown out or was he found not guilty. there is a difference wherein a person can only be tried once for a particular crime as the issue of double jeapordy applies and this is an international statute/one most western societies have adopted and I assume Germany as well correct? | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On May 12 2011 22:08 ZeromuS wrote: Quick questions: Are sentences concurrent in Germany? I know in canada no matter how many counts of robbery you are convicted for if you are convicted for 20 lets say in one trial and the penalty is 10 years you serve 10 years for all counts of robbery. The 3rd point the defence is making about previous trials - did the israeli trial get thrown out or was he found not guilty. there is a difference wherein a person can only be tried once for a particular crime as the issue of double jeapordy applies and this is an international statute/one most western societies have adopted and I assume Germany as well correct? They are not concurrent. Accessory of murder can be punished with at least 3 and up to 15 years of prison. About previous trials: He was not found not guilty. The trial was canceled and the sentence suspended after flaws in proceedings were uncovered. Besides that I doubt what you are talking about holds true across national jurisdictions. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
As far as I know a sentence is devised not only looking at the crime but also at the chance that the crime will be repeated, though I think you cannot get a suspended sentence if the crime was murder. The health is also taken into consideration and it can be decided that a trial and sentence is pointless at the time if someone's body or mind is wrecked and he is confined in a medical institution anyways. | ||
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impression
413 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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Mofisto
United Kingdom585 Posts
On May 12 2011 22:13 zatic wrote: About previous trials: He was not found not guilty. The trial was canceled and the sentence suspended after flaws in proceedings were uncovered Ill look for the source now, but apparently he spent 7 years in an israeli jail, 5 of which were on "death row" as he was to be executed. He was released when the Israelis realised it was a case of mistaken identity Edit: earlier he served nearly eight years in an Israeli prison, five of them on death row after being found guilty in the 1980s of being the particularly sadistic "Ivan the Terrible" guard at Treblinka, another death camp. The Israeli supreme court later overturned the verdict and ordered his release on the grounds that he had likely been wrongly identified. | ||
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impression
413 Posts
When i said he would be killed, i meant that living in prison would surely kill him. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On May 12 2011 22:38 Mofisto wrote: Ill look for the source now, but apparently he spent 7 years in an israeli jail, 5 of which were on "death row" as he was to be executed. He was released when the Israelis realised it was a case of mistaken identity Edit: There was a bit more to it, but yes, that (his previous prison time) is the case of the defense. | ||
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chaokel
Australia535 Posts
(not stating that they should be ok with it, however the past is the past and we need to accept it and move on.) The type of outlook on life that this displays for all parties involved i simply cannot understand, it is such a destructive way to look at life it is will never ever lead to anything good for anybody involved. Having this man 'practically' sentenced to die in prison will not change any of what happened. If someone who is for his incarceration could explain to me their point of view i would be very interested to see where they are coming from because i cannot even begin to understand why you would want that. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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impression
413 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On May 12 2011 22:48 Kipsate wrote: Can anyone inform me of Israel their stance on this?I know Israel(or the Mossad) has previously tracked down and ''eliminated'' Nazi War criminals, are ''they content'' with it?I realize that the prison camp might not have been Jewish(I was unable to get that) but I was just wondering considering Israel went on a ''crusade'' against Nazi War criminals. Sobibor was the primary camp for the extermination of Dutch Jews. It was not a prison camp. As I said he was on trial and sentenced in Israel before. From what I hear the local Israeli representatives are content with the trial and the sentence. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
On May 12 2011 22:13 zatic wrote: They are not concurrent. Accessory of murder can be punished with at least 3 and up to 15 years of prison. About previous trials: He was not found not guilty. The trial was canceled and the sentence suspended after flaws in proceedings were uncovered. Besides that I doubt what you are talking about holds true across national jurisdictions. well then I can only say the defendant has little no chance at the appeal :/ | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On May 12 2011 22:54 ZeromuS wrote: well then I can only say the defendant has little no chance at the appeal :/ right | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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XothermeK
United Arab Emirates245 Posts
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Muffinman53
571 Posts
But even if you agree with the ruling and think it's "just", that means justice took over 50 years to be served. Which is sad in its own right. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
We hung Saddam Hussein for gassing the Kurds of Iraq in the 80's, he was in charge so he is responsible, he had a CHOICE not to. I don't think anyone can prove that a soldier, like this former Nazi, really had a choice in what went on. This is from an article I found about the case. Serge Klarsfeld, a French lawyer and Nazi hunter, has expressed frustration with the trial, saying it failed to provide new details about the case and could not prove Demjanjuk's direct participation in the killings. "The witnesses are all dead and there are no documents because he was only a small fish," Klarsfeld told AFP. A guilty verdict "would open the door to accusations of unfair justice," he added. Sounds like this is straight bullshit to me. On top of that, Germany of all nations is the one prosecuting him. He is a human after all, he has already been imprisoned for crimes during WW2 which he was released for, because of mistaken identity. He served that time in Israel (the last place a person convicted of Nazi crimes would want to be incarcerated!) He is probably going to die soon regardless, I'm sure this man has had countless sleepless nights over the events of WW2. His judgement should be left to fate, and god. | ||
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